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Debian instead of android... can it be done?

I have been a linux user for years, love it. so when i heard about android i bought a g1 as soon as i could... and honestly i HATE the java base... it sucks. For a while ii have been using debian on my sd and i think i have found a way to read ( but not send ) texts from within debian. any chance of developing debian to the point where we could use it as the primary system ? can the g1 g1 boot loader load it ?

No.........

damageless said:
No.........
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks ****, how about some reasoning or logic ? nothing cannot be done it is just a matter of how much effort is required to achieve the desired result.

modem_over said:
I have been a linux user for years, love it. so when i heard about android i bought a g1 as soon as i could... and honestly i HATE the java base... it sucks. For a while ii have been using debian on my sd and i think i have found a way to read ( but not send ) texts from within debian. any chance of developing debian to the point where we could use it as the primary system ? can the g1 g1 boot loader load it ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.
Seriously.
I haven't looked at Android in ages, but regardless - debian is just a packaging and deployment system. It has little to do with the actual code and configuration of what is deployed in the end. It's work, but it's trivial work.
As for your disdain for the Java - how about some elaboration there? Do you really think you feel a performance hit?

i do really feel that java does slow the system down for one, and second, i don't want to learn another language...

...
no..............

yes, the bootloader will load it just fine.
i have played with nothing but debian on my phone... although, it's fairly useless.
until someone reverse engineers some way to talk to rild and control the wifi module and its userspace components you're pretty much tied to the java environment if you want... well, anything but a fancy embedded debian computer.
anyway, initramfs-tools package is your friend, as well as the android development environment. the bootloader will load the kernel + initramfs, and from there the sky (and linux) is the limit.

and i had to comment on the java performance... seriously, does anyone doubt that there is a *huge* performance hit? while a register based vm is fancy and fairly efficient as far as non JIT vm's go, it's still ridiculously slow and wasteful for the operating specs of this machine. 96mb of usable ram? dalvik forks off separate processes for each vm instances, so not only do you incur major pain for the COW operation, but enough changes in the working set to almost eliminate any helpfulness of COW. it's confusing as the point of zygote is to have a basically mostly started vm, but i'm not entirely sure how that's working in the background.
FWIW, when you clock this beast up to full CPU spec speed (528mhz) interface responsiveness doubles in fluidity.

Of course there is a huge performance hit, few people saying no are google's blind lovers.
Im sorry for this useless post..

The issue to me is the time it would take to develop debian to full working capacity with all the hardware. Possible? Yes. Fun? Depends on who you ask. Probability high for it to be actually completed better than Android? Doubtful.
JMO

i agree with you in most points, however, there are already standard non-android mobile linux stacks. the only hardware specific areas that need to be addressed are the wifi and telephony libraries.
the graphics are simple, it's a standard linux framebuffer, and an x server will run directly on it. if that's too heavy for the g1 (likely) directfb can also be used.
in the end - will it be better than android? probably not. too much development has gone into android.
will standard native apps utterly outperform android apps? believe it.
though, without either: a port of an x server to interface with surfaceflinger, or: a modified version of surfaceflinger to talk to an x server running on the framebuffer, you will never get the best of both worlds without some intermediate transport like vnc.
i'm in no way an advocate of 'debian only!' however, the poster of this thread was smacked down by some people who obviously had no real knowledge in the matter, so i sought to inform him.
the better direction i think, is someone to write a nice tight little c api for the binder surface flinger interface so people can start writing some more memory conscious native apps for people with rooted phones. streaming daemons, etc. while i think the stock development capabilities of the android platform is much better than the stock iphone's, a jailbroken iphone is 100% cooler than a jailbroken g1 at this point, but once there is enough community drive - that can change.

Booting into debian primarily which then runs android ontop of it should be possible, and then using android for things until more is developed on debian. Should work.
Still the original post was more about strictly debian only.

modem_over said:
Thanks ****, how about some reasoning or logic ? nothing cannot be done it is just a matter of how much effort is required to achieve the desired result.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Temper tantrums aside, if you knew the answer to your question already what's the point of this thread? There's already a thread for people running debian on their G1, ask it there.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=444419&highlight=debian

nolageek said:
Temper tantrums aside, if you knew the answer to your question already what's the point of this thread? There's already a thread for people running debian on their G1, ask it there.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=444419&highlight=debian
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Guess he can't now - been banned. Shame, too, I am sure we'll miss his pleasant demeanor.

davecanada said:
Yes.
Seriously.
I haven't looked at Android in ages, but regardless - debian is just a packaging and deployment system. It has little to do with the actual code and configuration of what is deployed in the end. It's work, but it's trivial work.
As for your disdain for the Java - how about some elaboration there? Do you really think you feel a performance hit?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OMFG yes there is a performance hit.

Yes i do bring certain special qualities to this forum don't I. at any rate i have began to build a port to be able to run directly off the jf bootloader.
vettejock99 said:
Guess he can't now - been banned. Shame, too, I am sure we'll miss his pleasant demeanor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Yes i do bring certain special qualities to this forum don't I. at any rate i have began to build a port to be able to run directly off the jf bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cool i can't wait to try it out

modem_over said:
Yes i do bring certain special qualities to this forum don't I. at any rate i have began to build a port to be able to run directly off the jf bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool - that sounds great

modem_over said:
Yes i do bring certain special qualities to this forum don't I. at any rate i have began to build a port to be able to run directly off the jf bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
any bootloader will work. there is no verification done by the bootloader during the bootstrap process, only during the flash process. flashing of the modified boot image with a debian initramfs instead of an android initramfs can be done from a functioning rooted android os, or from a test-keys enabled recovery partition. the method i used was to do a normal debian install on a partition of the sd card, installing initramfs-tools, building an initramfs, built a new boot.img with the stock android dev environment.

i've also compiled a kernel with full namespace support and a custom init that launches the android init and debian inits in separate namespaces allowing them to run concurrently. not much use since they can't talk to each other, but it is somewhat neat. virtuozzo like containers on your g1 =)

NATIVE Debian (Linux) on the Droid!

I got myself a Motorola Droid and I've been playing with the kernel quite a bit - it didn't take long to get Debian to boot from the SD card!
Necessary kernel modifications:
CONFIG_CMDLINE_FORCE=y
Motorola must have stealthily removed this from the kernel To re-enable it, add an #ifdef in arch/arm/kernel/setup.c as per http://kerneltrap.org/mailarchive/linux-kernel/2010/1/28/4533180.
CONFIG_CMDLINE="[email protected] mtdparts=omap2-nand.0:[email protected](mbm),[email protected](cdt),[email protected](lbl),[email protected](misc),3584k(boot),4608k(recovery),143744k(system),94848k(cache),268032k(userdata),2m(kpanic) root=/dev/mmcblk0p1 omapfb.rotate=1 noinitrd quiet".
That's about it! Just compile it, use Koush's AnyKernel update.zip generator, and flash away! I tried Ubuntu, but Thumb-2 support is broken in the kernel - it can't execute /sbin/init, so it panics. In theory, Gentoo, Slackware, Arch, Angstrom, MeeGo, and many other Linux distros for ARM should work with little modification. The sky's the limit! (JK, Windows 8000 won't work )

That's awesome! You gotta love Linux!

Screenshots, video, anything?

spc_hicks09 said:
Screenshots, video, anything?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see the point - unless you want a screenshot of Debian's console login prompt, which you can find almost anywhere. I'm running X with E17 (Illume) now, but without proper touchscreen calibration it's not very useful... I might do a video or something once I have it calibrated.

gTan64 said:
I got myself a Motorola Droid and I've been playing with the kernel quite a bit - it didn't take long to get Debian to boot from the SD card!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm trying to get this set up on my droid. Would you be willing to provide a little more details for a novice like me? Were you modifying the stock kernel or 3rd party? Does wifi work in native debian?
EDIT: I found this other thread which has more details, so I'll start there. Thanks! http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1318330

The end of the beginning
I've been tempting fate a lot lately. Despite my attempts to keep this platform alive, my Droid bit the dust yesterday.
Its digital contents live on, but the hardware wasn't so lucky.
It always had a way of inconveniencing me, so I'm somewhat relieved about it.
Unfortunately, finding a replacement is going to be a pain.
Mostly due to a lack of money (WiFi+Google Voice+plentiful open source software = less spending/work incentive)
and the length of my uncompromising list of requirements,
I am beginning to realize that my dream phone might never exist.
Somewhat refreshingly, I'm around "weird" people a lot, and they remind me (without using words!) that there are better things in life than shopping for a smartphone.
This isn't exactly goodbye, but I may be away from the XDA scene for a while.
Apologies to any users of my coding experiments... Hopefully, if nothing else, they inspire something more useful.
Thanks y'all for the fun time and for reading this long post
Don't stop inventing!

gTan64 said:
I got myself a Motorola Droid and I've been playing with the kernel quite a bit - it didn't take long to get Debian to boot from the SD card!
Necessary kernel modifications:
CONFIG_CMDLINE_FORCE=y
Motorola must have stealthily removed this from the kernel To re-enable it, add an #ifdef in arch/arm/kernel/setup.c as per http://kerneltrap.org/mailarchive/linux-kernel/2010/1/28/4533180.
CONFIG_CMDLINE="[email protected] mtdparts=omap2-nand.0:[email protected](mbm),[email protected](cdt),[email protected](lbl),[email protected](misc),3584k(boot),4608k(recovery),143744k(system),94848k(cache),268032k(userdata),2m(kpanic) root=/dev/mmcblk0p1 omapfb.rotate=1 noinitrd quiet".
That's about it! Just compile it, use Koush's AnyKernel update.zip generator, and flash away! I tried Ubuntu, but Thumb-2 support is broken in the kernel - it can't execute /sbin/init, so it panics. In theory, Gentoo, Slackware, Arch, Angstrom, MeeGo, and many other Linux distros for ARM should work with little modification. The sky's the limit! (JK, Windows 8000 won't work )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm.... how would I go about checking into this for the transformer prime?
Sent from my Transformer Prime using XDA

edw00rd said:
Hmmm.... how would I go about checking into this for the transformer prime?
Sent from my Transformer Prime using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1.) Figure out how to run an unsigned kernel image. Kexec, fastboot, USB kernel flasher, etc...
2.) Replace the Android initramfs and/or tell the kernel where to boot from (depending on which method you pick above, you may need to compile a custom kernel);
3.) Install a root filesystem image on an SD card (internal storage may work, but it's less risky to dual boot) and point the kernel to it.
I got Ubuntu running even better on my "new" Epic 4G! Other devices should work with this method, but I'm not too enthusiastic about porting for devices I don't own

I know this is a very old thread, but the OP has disabled his PM messaging system, so I have no other choice.
I'm interested in repeating what this guy did here, as I too have a moto droid (a855) and i'd like to get at least a little use out of it.
I have some questions.
Where did you get the kernel sources? (i see you're saying to modify something in arch/arm/kernel/setup.c)
How did you get debian to boot from the SD Card? You mention kernel modification but you never mentioned anything about the setup process.
Will the process here https://wiki.debian.org/HowtoDebianInAndroid work for this? Everything mentioned there except the kernel seems to not be device specific.

Ubuntu as a Phone OS

Well, ubnuntu just made an annoucnement that they will have a mobile tablet and phone os, that will be matched with thier other versions so it is one os that will work on all your computing devices using all the same apps that you already run. They will also have the HTML 5 apps as part of this.
Just thought you guys might be interested.
I am very excited about this.
Sound off and let's discuss after you check out the video on the link below:
http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone

I see android becoming a GUI skin for Ubuntu. It's been nothing more than a matter of time before PC OS's merged with phone OS's . With some of the new hardware technologies almost ready for primetime our mobiles will take the place of PC/laptops in our lives. Desktops are evolving into more of a server role in the home. Appliances , home entertainment, environmental control will all be run from a central home super PC/server. The technology is out now but advances are coming that will make it more practical for the masses.

mtnlion said:
I see android becoming a GUI skin for Ubuntu. It's been nothing more than a matter of time before PC OS's merged with phone OS's . With some of the new hardware technologies almost ready for primetime our mobiles will take the place of PC/laptops in our lives. Desktops are evolving into more of a server role in the home. Appliances , home entertainment, environmental control will all be run from a central home super PC/server. The technology is out now but advances are coming that will make it more practical for the masses.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually it is the other way around.... in the video it was said that the ubuntu phone os will work with the android kernel, so it should work on any current android hardware, and should be very easy to implement it.
This is really because the android kernel is really the general linux 3.0 kernel.
I am going to work on getting this working on this phone, as soon they release the OS to everyone. I can see this taking this phone to where it should be as far as performance is concerned.

jimbridgman said:
Actually it is the other way around.... in the video it was said that the ubuntu phone os will work with the android kernel, so it should work on any current android hardware, and should be very easy to implement it.
This is really because the android kernel is really the general linux 3.0 kernel.
I am going to work on getting this working on this phone, as soon they release the OS to everyone. I can see this taking this phone to where it should be as far as performance is concerned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are saying You can boot this version of Ubuntu with our stock moto kernel?

mtnlion said:
You are saying You can boot this version of Ubuntu with our stock moto kernel?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure yet, but from the video in the link I posted toward the end, it sure sounded like that was the case. I am sure some work will have to be done, but it sounded promising.

I'm most interested in seeing how this turns out when you unleash your kung fu on it. My nexus 4 should be here soon, after it arrives my A2 will be at your disposal for any alpha testing. Then again my A2 has always been available for testing anything you or certain other devs come up with.

This is super sexy. I cannot wait for this to come out. I have been using Linux, mainly Ubuntu off and on for years now. This just made my day. I love the GUI. I wonder... What type of bootloader this will use. Some modified versions of Lilo, or Grub?

Maribou said:
This is super sexy. I cannot wait for this to come out. I have been using Linux, mainly Ubuntu off and on for years now. This just made my day. I love the GUI. I wonder... What type of bootloader this will use. Some modified versions of Lilo, or Grub?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Prolly not going to be lilo, it has been a while since lilo was a default BL for linux. Grub, both in the the gui and text bootloaders has been the BL of choice for most linux distros for some time now.
I am guessing that if this works with the android kernel, that it might not use a separate BL for those devices, but I would guess that again grub would be on new devices that are made to run this by default.

I can see this taking this phone to where it should be as far as performance is concerned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm curious as to why you say this. Is there any particular reason that performance would be better with Ubuntu over Android? If the kernel is the same, it would seem to me that the performance level achievable would be the same with either.

jimbridgman said:
Prolly not going to be lilo, it has been a while since lilo was a default BL for linux. Grub, both in the the gui and text bootloaders has been the BL of choice for most linux distros for some time now.
I am guessing that if this works with the android kernel, that it might not use a separate BL for those devices, but I would guess that again grub would be on new devices that are made to run this by default.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool.Since it is open source do you think the BL will be locked down? I'm actually kinda confused as to how this would work. Would we still have our locked down BL if we installed a port of the Ubuntu OS? Or would the Ubuntu OS totally replace everything?

It looks like the original phone this is made for is a galaxy Nexus, so.... We should be able to get this running on our A2 fairly easily.
http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/02/ubuntu-for-smartphones/
As to the person who asked about why I feel the performance will be better, is because of how linux itself and the apps that are used, use hardware, android itself does not handle apps talking to hardware very well, and tend to kill battery in the process much faster.
I run linux on a ton of my computers and devices, and I will tell you, I have a netbook running ubuntu and I get 13 hours on battery with it, where with any other OS I get maybe 6 hours. And yes it runs an atom processor, and I have been able to test running android on it, and ran very poorly as far as battery and performance was concerned, even with linaro running.
The ONLY reason we will not be able to run the true ubuntu kernel with this is thanks to motorola locking this thing down so tight that we can not run any other bootloader or kernel on this device.

Maribou said:
Cool.Since it is open source do you think the BL will be locked down? I'm actually kinda confused as to how this would work. Would we still have our locked down BL if we installed a port of the Ubuntu OS? Or would the Ubuntu OS totally replace everything?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to say for our phone, we will not be able to run the whole thing. We will have to keep our bootloader and kernel, but basically run this from our /system partition much like flashing a ROM.

jimbridgman said:
Sorry to say for our phone, we will not be able to run the whole thing. We will have to keep our bootloader and kernel, but basically run this from our /system partition much like flashing a ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for clearing that up. I was thinking that was how it would be. I still can't wait to try this out!

This may be a dumb question.... but wasn't ubuntu designed to run on x86? How would it work on ARM?
Sent from my MB865 using xda app-developers app

farshad525hou said:
This may be a dumb question.... but wasn't ubuntu designed to run on x86? How would it work on ARM?
Sent from my MB865 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ubuntu has come a long way. There are many different variations of it now. http://www.ubuntu.com/download/arm

WOW this is a real game changer here..... Have been thinking for a while what could be the next BIG thing looks like this is it..... Take a quad core with 2gb ram 32gb onboard and 32gb sd and this is going to be a beasted laptop in your pocket.....
Haha just read the other part of the page and it almost looks loke a direct quote.....

I don't know if I'm remembering correctly but wasn't Canonical working with Motorola on Ubuntu for Android? And wasn't even the phone they demoed it on in the video an Atrix 2?
They are obviously different projects as Ubuntu for Android was to allow the ability to boot into Ubuntu from inside android much like Jim's Webtop hack, but I just thought I should bring it up.

Generally speaking, I'm pretty excited about this too. I haven't been able to find any information on the ubuntu "dock ". Availability, price, inputs/outputs, etc. I think it will be awesome to have a dockable piece of hardware to run as a mobile or home device.
Sent from my MB865 using xda app-developers app

Oh wow this is gonna be just amazing a true Linux mobile os I for one can't wait to load an Ubuntu based ROM onto my a2
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app

This is going to be so awesome if it really works. I'm already setting up a dev environment to port it to my tablet, where it will really be awesome.
EDIT: PS will it be able to run normal andriod apps too?

[Q] Different OS for different devices

Hello guys,
I have a basic question in my mind running for ages and unfortunately couldn't get an answer to it, or its just because I am a novice to android development.
The question is why do we have different android for different devices like the android on a nexus or another device, why cant the same be installed on all the devices, even tough the hardware config is similar/same. Why do we have to cook ROM for every device out there in the market?
Somethin like the computer Operating systems, Windows/Linux, what we do is grab an iso file and install it on any laptop...we do not cook it or modify it for installation and after installation we can configure the same as per our needs and requirements, why cant the same thing can be done for android?
Can someone here give me a pointer or information about this...I am curious to know.
thanks

ekdmfree said:
Hello guys,
I have a basic question in my mind running for ages and unfortunately couldn't get an answer to it, or its just because I am a novice to android development.
The question is why do we have different android for different devices like the android on a nexus or another device, why cant the same be installed on all the devices, even tough the hardware config is similar/same. Why do we have to cook ROM for every device out there in the market?
Somethin like the computer Operating systems, Windows/Linux, what we do is grab an iso file and install it on any laptop...we do not cook it or modify it for installation and after installation we can configure the same as per our needs and requirements, why cant the same thing can be done for android?
Can someone here give me a pointer or information about this...I am curious to know.
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung --> Touchwiz UI
Motorola --> Blur UI
LG --> LG UI
Every manufactor has his own UI but all based on Android. The "normal" Android from Google is AOSP. The manufactor uses Android because it's open source and they haven't to pay for the licenses. If all devices look the same why should you buy a Samsung Smartphone? So they modded it to be unique.

check what Grarak said above ^^.
also use only q/a forum for question next time.
Sent from my GT-S7562 using xda app-developers app

kataria.vikesh said:
check what Grarak said above ^^.
also use only q/a forum for question next time.
Sent from my GT-S7562 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, thanks for the answer, but what I was essentially saying is modifying the UI is a different thing, that probably will sit on top of android as an OS, so that solves the UI thing. But if I look at the CM versions for different devices, they all look the same with similar functionalities, so the question is why cannot I install a CM cooked for a say Galaxy S for Galaxy R, where the specs are almost similar. Is this a valid question or just a piece of crap.
Another advice, how can I move it to question/answers section or if someone can please do that, thanks

ekdmfree said:
OK, thanks for the answer, but what I was essentially saying is modifying the UI is a different thing, that probably will sit on top of android as an OS, so that solves the UI thing. But if I look at the CM versions for different devices, they all look the same with similar functionalities, so the question is why cannot I install a CM cooked for a say Galaxy S for Galaxy R, where the specs are almost similar. Is this a valid question or just a piece of crap.
Another advice, how can I move it to question/answers section or if someone can please do that, thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't just Drag & drop things from one bucket to other.
Also, you can't move it. I have informed to MOD. they can only.

The keyword is 'similar'. You may be able to install the same version on similar devices with the necessary modifications to get it to boot, but some if not all functionality will be broken. On a PC, there is space to have many drivers included in the same image, but the system partitions of most phones are intended to contain only the most necessary parts of the OS. Furthermore, not all processors are the same. E.g. You cannot install an ARMv7 rom to an ARMv6 device. This is like x86 and x64 on PCs.
Sent from my GT-I9103

looking for interested devs

Hoping this is the right section since its not device specific.
Experienced or not, it doesn't matter. I've been on XDA for a number of years. And am noticing things from my own experience and talking to others. Its hard to get help sometimes. Not all devs want to talk. Teach. Or help people all the time. Devices are being dropped from support. Maintainers are leaving the scene. Currently I have an Oreo and pie ROM for s6e+ and note 5. With the list of devices being dropped, and surprising amount of people reaching out to me for support, I decided it may be beneficial to recruit a few people who want to develop ROMs. This is a great chance to learn. I would like to pick up at least partial support for several more devices, and need some help to do it. My goal in this endeavor is to continue to provide ROMs to people who need them, while teaching other users to develop. This will help to bring fresh life to the scene, and allow support for more devices to be added. If you are interested reply below or inbox me. There is a google hangouts set up, and other methods of team communication will follow. I also have a home server with a 24/7 connection and no data limits on my internet, and an ftp set up to host files directly and not need third party sites.

so basically you have good intentions, no plan and a home server )
what we really need is a unification of all the different but not really different roms and their devs,
then its possible to see a future for long term support for all devices, or at least many.
anyhting else is jsut another project that will or will not die, based on good will and free time of the maintainer, mostly not even reckognized
due to the chaos of fragmented android and even more fragmented custom rom scene.

godkingofcanada said:
Hoping this is the right section since its not device specific.
Experienced or not, it doesn't matter. I've been on XDA for a number of years. And am noticing things from my own experience and talking to others. Its hard to get help sometimes. Not all devs want to talk. Teach. Or help people all the time. Devices are being dropped from support. Maintainers are leaving the scene. Currently I have an Oreo and pie ROM for s6e+ and note 5. With the list of devices being dropped, and surprising amount of people reaching out to me for support, I decided it may be beneficial to recruit a few people who want to develop ROMs. This is a great chance to learn. I would like to pick up at least partial support for several more devices, and need some help to do it. My goal in this endeavor is to continue to provide ROMs to people who need them, while teaching other users to develop. This will help to bring fresh life to the scene, and allow support for more devices to be added. If you are interested reply below or inbox me. There is a google hangouts set up, and other methods of team communication will follow. I also have a home server with a 24/7 connection and no data limits on my internet, and an ftp set up to host files directly and not need third party sites.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I respect your Idea but I don't think something like this is required.You see I had been using linux for 4+ years and was pretty adapted to it when I switched to a Note 3.Recently I discovered the Modding part of it and the huge development of custom roms and kernels.and despite having no clue what I was doing I could easily develop a Kernel without a hassle.I went even one step further and made a halium port for it.Sure it didn't boot the first time but by using methods on xda already discussed in detail I was able to make it work.So,the main thing is that someone like me who has no experience could make a ROM in 3 hours without any complications(Except those who could be solved by googling).Then anybody could do it.Currently there isn't a ROM bug or a issue that hasn't been discussed on either xda or other android development sites.But that doesn't mean we shouldn't help newcomers.But it is rare for someone to look on the other side of development and there is enough documentations for him to do it.Maybe too much.qq
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Atifbaig786 said:
I respect your Idea but I don't think something like this is required.You see I had been using linux for 4+ years and was pretty adapted to it when I switched to a Note 3.Recently I discovered the Modding part of it and the huge development of custom roms and kernels.and despite having no clue what I was doing I could easily develop a Kernel without a hassle.I went even one step further and made a halium port for it.Sure it didn't boot the first time but by using methods on xda already discussed in detail I was able to make it work.So,the main thing is that someone like me who has no experience could make a ROM in 3 hours without any complications(Except those who could be solved by googling).Then anybody could do it.Currently there isn't a ROM bug or a issue that hasn't been discussed on either xda or other android development sites.But that doesn't mean we shouldn't help newcomers.But it is rare for someone to look on the other side of development and there is enough documentations for him to do it.Maybe too much.qq
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't just make a ROM for any device is 3 hours. It doesn't always work that way. Especially not if building from source

godkingofcanada said:
You can't just make a ROM for any device is 3 hours. It doesn't always work that way. Especially not if building from source
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I just followed a guide.On an XL VPS. With maybe 22GB ram and 16 xeon cores
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Atifbaig786 said:
I just followed a guide.On an XL VPS. With maybe 22GB ram and 16 xeon cores
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I don't disagree sometimes it is easy. But what if lineage or GitHub don't have all necessary files for the build? And then you need to extract them from your phone manually, or if build won't boot up and needs modifications to the kernel.. fixing drivers that do not work. It's not always so simple as build, flash and finish.

godkingofcanada said:
I don't disagree sometimes it is easy. But what if lineage or GitHub don't have all necessary files for the build? And then you need to extract them from your phone manually, or if build won't boot up and needs modifications to the kernel.. fixing drivers that do not work. It's not always so simple as build, flash and finish.
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I did face issues.The End of the guide covered the basics of logging stuff and finding things.They were just as same as debugging a linux OS but yeah you're right as I did face the extracting files(dunno what was supposed to do).So I wrote "extract proprietary vendor code from ROM" and boom lineage gave it to me.Also the guide was only for devices that exist on lineage and sometimes we need to start from scratch.And maybe We both are,Who knows what the future might bring,BTW have you heard about Google's new Boy Fuchisa or something like that.I wanted to talk someone in the field of development about this but nobody was bringing up the non-linux version of Google's OS for smartphones.
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Atifbaig786 said:
I did face issues.The End of the guide covered the basics of logging stuff and finding things.They were just as same as debugging a linux OS but yeah you're right as I did face the extracting files(dunno what was supposed to do).So I wrote "extract proprietary vendor code from ROM" and boom lineage gave it to me.Also the guide was only for devices that exist on lineage and sometimes we need to start from scratch.And maybe We both are,Who knows what the future might bring,BTW have you heard about Google's new Boy Fuchisa or something like that.I wanted to talk someone in the field of development about this but nobody was bringing up the non-linux version of Google's OS for smartphones.
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Yes I heard about it. I stumbled across it by accident looking for a way to shim the s6 edge plus cam on my pie rom. It lead me to reading about vulkan, which showed me a new Google os. It looks nice

godkingofcanada said:
Yes I heard about it. I stumbled across it by accident looking for a way to shim the s6 edge plus cam on my pie rom. It lead me to reading about vulkan, which showed me a new Google os. It looks nice
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Well It seems that it uses a Different type of kernel "microkernel".For someone as stupid as me I don't get it what was the difference between a microkernel and monolithic one on an android device(or a low powered arm processor based board that has a screen attached to it)Will it be performance,Faster loading,Efficiency.I can find a million articles on microkernel vs monolithic but they are in latin for me.But you can just give me the crash course in maybe 3-4 lines.
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Atifbaig786 said:
Well It seems that it uses a Different type of kernel "microkernel".For someone as stupid as me I don't get it what was the difference between a microkernel and monolithic one on an android device(or a low powered arm processor based board that has a screen attached to it)Will it be performance,Faster loading,Efficiency.I can find a million articles on microkernel vs monolithic but they are in latin for me.But you can just give me the crash course in maybe 3-4 lines.
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Device drivers, protocol, file systems moved from kernel to user. It's got less code, more lightweight. And it was created with embedded systems in mind. In theory it should be faster, and more suited to small devices like phones with embedded systems. Giving devices their own dedicated kernel finally instead of butchering a Linux kernel to suit their device needs. It's also universal in terms of cross platform

godkingofcanada said:
Device drivers, protocol, file systems moved from kernel to user. It's got less code, more lightweight. And it was created with embedded systems in mind. In theory it should be faster, and more suited to small devices like phones with embedded systems. Giving devices their own dedicated kernel finally instead of butchering a Linux kernel to suit their device needs. It's also universal in terms of cross platform
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Now that's more like it.I was afraid that android was finally going to commit close source(or suicicde).But since it's open source and I hear good things from you and 4 other guys who have experience in doing stuff I think,Hope and Pray that it might be a good change.Also thanks for using plain English and being a Open guy.Currently I am thinking that 5 years from now someone gonna run into this post and have a little smirk on his face for you who is reading this,Quote and tell me was it good?Was we good?
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Atifbaig786 said:
Now that's more like it.I was afraid that android was finally going to commit close source(or suicicde).But since it's open source and I hear good things from you and 4 other guys who have experience in doing stuff I think,Hope and Pray that it might be a good change.Also thanks for using plain English and being a Open guy.Currently I am thinking that 5 years from now someone gonna run into this post and have a little smirk on his face for you who is reading this,Quote and tell me was it good?Was we good?
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I think the changes appear good. Less stuff locked away in private, more easily accessible to all. Treble has the vendor stuff available to roms that aren't stock, this will make the kernel tiny and easy to build. One by one the barriers people have to overcome to build their own roms are being taken away.