I've seen a few posts about people saying the NAND controller in the TF700 is slow and that is what causes a number of performance issues. Is this NAND in charge of both the internal and external cards or did they select a poor one just for the internal memory and went with a better quality controller for the external?
One reason I'm asking is that I saw a few people under the CleanROM thread mention that they moved a bunch of their apps over to a fast USH-1 MicroSD and it make a huge difference. But, if the controller was slow and shared across all cards, then that shouldn't help as the bottleneck would still be there. So, are they mistaken or does moving apps (Data2SD was the app they mentioned allowing them to do this) alleviate performance issues?
If it did alleviate issues, couldn't we use this to our advantage and install the OS to a USH-1 card and use internal memory for storage only? Or, come up with a good way to strategically place all applications on the available storage card as a part of rom installation.
OR, people are wrong and there's no way performance could be improved as the NAND is shared.
Can anyone speak to this?
I think one of the advantages is that the USH-1 cards are much faster than the NAND memory in the TF700. I plan on picking one up when time permits to find out for myself.
However I'll admit I have no real understanding of how it works. Many seem to be supporting it though, and I think Scott plans to implement it into his kernel so there must be something to it.
Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2
You must be talking about the Data2SD mod in the development section.
I'm planning on doing this when my Sandisk 64gig UHS1 card gets to me.
Thats OK said:
You must be talking about the Data2SD mod in the development section.
I'm planning on doing this when my Sandisk 64gig UH1 card gets to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess maybe I'm mixing up terminology or what I've read.
I thought what people were saying is slow, wasn't the memory in the TF700, but the memory controller that manages the memory. I've seen people say "NAND Chipset", as saying that the specific chipset is cheap and they should have went with a higher quality.
Now, if the controller is not bad but hey went with cheap and slow memory, then this makes much more sense. Using that mod to move apps to a UH1 card would drastically improve performance. I also ordered one (this morning) from Amazon which should get in tomorrow. From there it sounds like I'll be playing with that mod.
I'm more interested in the performance bump than extra storage.
Is this the proper card?
http://m.bestbuy.com/m/e/product/detail.jsp?skuId=3695074&pid=1218427115873
If so, its a great deal.
Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2
Biohazard0289 said:
I'm more interested in the performance bump than extra storage.
Is this the proper card?
http://m.bestbuy.com/m/e/product/detail.jsp?skuId=3695074&pid=1218427115873
If so, its a great deal.
Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what I ordered:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...treme pro uhs-1 microsd&qid=1351174744&sr=8-5
According to benchmarks its the fastest of the microSDs you can get at 90mb/s.
spinaldex said:
According to benchmarks its the fastest of the microSDs you can get at 90mb/s.
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Click to collapse
Can the MicroSD Card slot read/write at 90mb/s?
Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2
Mmmmm....
My understanding is, that the Hynix (formerly Hyundai) controller used for data built in has deplorable read\write speeds.
Hynix just brands certain products and some unknown maker stamps out the hardware.
Evidently moving the data partition along with system cache to a speedier better quality external SDcard plugged into the tablet will hopefully double read\write speed.
The system ram is another story.
It's all about getting system data to move a lot faster from system disc to ram to cpu.
Kind of like changing a hard disc out in a PC.
I have no idea how these devs are doing this with coding, yet if it works and stays working I'm gonna have a party!
As far as the cards go I'll have to do a lot more reading around these forums to judge what may be best.
I've read the "Ultra Hi Speed" cards work well.
It's weird tho they come in class 6 and 10.
I believe the key for a good card is being able to write small files 32kb or so very quickly on random calls from internal processing.
I keep confusing myself with all this...it will straighten out after two more pots of coffee...
Biohazard0289 said:
Can the MicroSD Card slot read/write at 90mb/s?
Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In theory yes, but in real life, NO. I have tested a few digital cameras using card with 90mb/s and I never achieved this speed, (it hits 90 for like a second then quickly dropped to about 40-44mb/s). A good example is a 30mb/s you are getting less for read and even smaller for write. But if you get the 90 card, it's still better than the 30 (must compared with same manufacture and same class).
http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/wiki/SDCardSpeedTests
Here is a link to some SD card speeds.
A couple on the list I've tested and my results were about the same as this list.
As always there are newer cards out that read faster that aren't on this list.
Thats OK said:
http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/wiki/SDCardSpeedTests
Here is a link to some SD card speeds.
A couple on the list I've tested and my results were about the same as this list.
As always there are newer cards out that read faster that aren't on this list.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is a good resource, however at the bottom it says those speeds are established by a large file transfer. Since we are replacing internal I/O we need small file transfer right? I'm still researching and I could be wrong though.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app
Biohazard0289 said:
That is a good resource, however at the bottom it says those speeds are established by a large file transfer. Since we are replacing internal I/O we need small file transfer right? I'm still researching and I could be wrong though.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True!
Small file fast writes are best.
Android won't have to deal with massive files.
Based on this, it sounds like there is an improvement in performance when using the cards. Now I just need to read the thread on that mod so I can take full advantage of it.
spinaldex said:
I've seen a few posts about people saying the NAND controller in the TF700 is slow and that is what causes a number of performance issues. Is this NAND in charge of both the internal and external cards or did they select a poor one just for the internal memory and went with a better quality controller for the external?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I researched a bit and came up with this:
The internal storage is connected to the CPU/SOC roughly like this:
[ Tegra 3 ] --- MMC interface --- [ NAND controller ] --- NAND-specific interface --- [ NAND memory array ]
Everything beyond the MMC interface is inside the eMMC chip. So the NAND controller that is slow is part of the Hynix eMMC.
Tegra 3 has 4 SD/MMC interfaces. One of them is connected to the internal eMMC, the other one to the microSD slot. The full size SD card in the dock is connected to the tablet indirectly via USB, very much like a cardreader on a PC.
There is also a NAND flash controller inside Tegra 3 - AFAIK this is not used in the TF700. The advantage of using an eMMC is that wear leveling can be offloaded to the eMMC and the software doesn't need to care.
spinaldex said:
If it did alleviate issues, couldn't we use this to our advantage and install the OS to a USH-1 card and use internal memory for storage only?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The internal eMMC is not that slow for reading, its main performance bottleneck are random writes. So keeping the system apps on the internal storage is probably good enough since the ROM is read-only in normal use, but putting the data on an external card apparently helps a lot.
I picked up an 8gig Ultra Class 10 at best buy for $11.00. I'll give it a go when I get home.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app
Related
So here is an idea I have. I will be tinkering with this.
But I want to see if I can get anyone else to provide input.
Setup partition and sd partition.
Setup a soft raid 0.
This is the only way I can think of speeding up the bottlenecked disk.
Input.... I don't think its that hard...
The EVO does not have a built in RAID controller so I don't think this would work.
There is only 1 controller that I know of that can run a RAID array off 1 drive and that is the Intel matrix chipset.
sultan.of.swing said:
The EVO does not have a built in RAID controller so I don't think this would work.
There is only 1 controller that I know of that can run a RAID array off 1 drive and that is the Intel matrix chipset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He did say soft raid, which is possible...feasible, no idea - possible, yes.
Ah, not up to terms on soft raid. I always run the real deal on my rig.
Putting raid 0 on the SD card would not benefit you in any way because all the data is still traveling through the one pipe.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
TheBullyNextDoor said:
Putting raid 0 on the SD card would not benefit you in any way because all the data is still traveling through the one pipe.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to mention the same card... so, you would be writing the same data to the same card over the same pipe, and there would be exactly 0 difference in write/read speeds.
If you want faster throughput, get a higher class SD card.
Bottleneck? EVO? Erm... The internal memory is about the equivalent of a Class 6-8 SD card. Just get a Class 10 16GB card for $30 and load as many apps on it as possible. Problem solved.
As for RAID... You're doing this all through the same bus (as stated above) AND you'll be taxing the crap out of your CPU, RAM, and NAND. There's a reason RAID controllers have dedicated processors and memory, y'know.
kthejoker20 said:
So here is an idea I have. I will be tinkering with this.
But I want to see if I can get anyone else to provide input.
Setup partition and sd partition.
Setup a soft raid 0.
This is the only way I can think of speeding up the bottlenecked disk.
Input.... I don't think its that hard...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the bigger question is... will going above 15 megabytes a second help anything at all or even be noticeable. I get solid 12megabytes per second off a crap 8gb. And none really go over 20 megabytes. Another thing I noticed is that over clocking increases increases read speeds past 12mb so it might he the phone not able to keep up processor wise interpreting the data.
I'm getting the TF300 tomorrow. Is it safe to assume that that TF300 is one of the easier tablets to unlock and put a custom rom onto?
falcon26 said:
I'm getting the TF300 tomorrow. Is it safe to assume that that TF300 is one of the easier tablets to unlock and put a custom rom onto?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all this should be in the questions section. Second root is one-click and unlocking the device is done by simply installing the asus app and voiding your warranty.
Some questions
Sorry, I know that post isn't in de right section, but I have some questions with the same subject.
So, If I do root there is NO warrenty any more? even if it is a hardware problemem or somme thing like that?
Can somme one tell me please, wat is de max capacity of the usb reader, I mean, can I put a flash driver with 64GB for example?
The tab have a microSD port, I thing, but the docking have also a SD reader, so we can use 2 cards (one MicroSD 32Gb and one SD 16 Gb for example) together? If YES, how can i know were I'm writing my file, in internal, MicroSD or SD card?
----EDIT
I don't have the tab yet, I want to be sure if these tab will answer all my needs. Tanks
the internal storage is saved in /sdcard. MicroSD is in /Removable/MicroSD. I'd imagine SD card would be in /Removable/SD or something to that effect.
Tanks... But and about the flash driver... Wat is the maximum capacity, the tab read how much max?
Sorry for that ugly English
Sent from my R800i using xda premium
Maxwelbel said:
Tanks... But and about the flash driver... Wat is the maximum capacity, the tab read how much max?
Sorry for that ugly English
Sent from my R800i using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Manufacturer says 32gb. Some users have reported success with 64gb. I assume you are referring to the "microSD Slot" on the tablet itself.
Yes, tanks... But there is also a 2.0 USB on docking, so can I, normally put a pen drive? And how much is the limit of the pen drive?
Sent from my R800i using xda premium
The flash drive/pen drive slot is on the keyboard dock which is sold separately from the tablet. With the dock though, yes, you can put in a flash drive. I believe the limit is 32gb, but again, it's possible that it may accept larger sizes like 64gb. I haven't tried putting anything bigger than that though.
edvora
Well I got the TF300 today. I have to say it is by far one of the fastest if not the fastest tablet I have used. And I have used at least 5 in the last few months. And it has no backlight bleed which was my main concern. So far I am liking what I am seeing. The only thing that concerns me now is, no gorilla glass. I hope this thing has some sort of scratch resistant screen. Also why only the one speaker on the right side that is kinda lame. I can totally tell listening to stuff that sound is only coming from one side. Ok back to more testing...
We all know that an 8GB Tab 2 has half of its storage for the system and the other half acting as a virtual SD card.
Is it possible to shrink the system partition and increase the the size of the virtual SD card? I know there are several partitions in use, but I hope you can see where I am coming from.
Thanks
I was thinking of having 2gb for the system and 6gb for the virtual SD card, like on an S2. Wouldn't that make more sense?
Seems nobody has an answer...
With so many posts complaining about the 4gb of user data I would have thought my post would have attracted some responses.
As it stands other devices have had their partitions resized. It seems to be a case of using ADB and using the "parted" command. I might give it a blast when I'm not so busy at the moment, but surely others must have thought the same as me.
Am I really the only one who thinks that 4gb for the system is way excessive?
sulligogs said:
Seems nobody has an answer...
With so many posts complaining about the 4gb of user data I would have thought my post would have attracted some responses.
As it stands other devices have had their partitions resized. It seems to be a case of using ADB and using the "parted" command. I might give it a blast when I'm not so busy at the moment, but surely others must have thought the same as me.
Am I really the only one who thinks that 4gb for the system is way excessive?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been watching this thread because I am curious as well. However, I unfortunately have an answer.
Actually curious about this too.
Sent from my GT-P3113 using xda app-developers app
sulligogs said:
I was thinking of having 2gb for the system and 6gb for the virtual SD card, like on an S2. Wouldn't that make more sense?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My guess is they have a JB rom that supports apps to extsd or they have swapped the extsd for sd, so that the external is the main http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1961097 there are tons of solutions to this and getting past file sizes greater than 4 gig. Just use the search engine http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php
Hi, I am using Swapper 2 on Atrix 2 with Paranoid Android rom, I have made a 256 mb swap partition, Although most I have seen it used is 111 mb.
Its working fine. But I have noticed that phone sometimes freezes a while (very rarely) but certainly when boot up till I see the message that 'swapper 2 has been granted superuser perm'
What I wanted to know is that,
Are there any real advantages here, using that swap partition??
Can it lead to problems with my SD Card?? (32 gb UHS1 Sandisk)
Does it really slowdown phone??(Or Am I hallucinating?)
Thanks for reading. :good:
NHS2008 said:
Hi, I am using Swapper 2 on Atrix 2 with Paranoid Android rom, I have made a 256 mb swap partition, Although most I have seen it used is 111 mb.
Its working fine. But I have noticed that phone sometimes freezes a while (very rarely) but certainly when boot up till I see the message that 'swapper 2 has been granted superuser perm'
What I wanted to know is that,
Are there any real advantages here, using that swap partition??
Can it lead to problems with my SD Card?? (32 gb UHS1 Sandisk)
Does it really slowdown phone??(Or Am I hallucinating?)
Thanks for reading. :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anything that utilizes the SDcard will slow things down. The type storage that an SDcard is, is not a fast high quality storage. It was always meant to just store your person files on.
A second swap file is not needed. Android already has one it uses as part of the kernel and it is on your internal storage (much faster this way).
I would say yes it is using this swap file on the SDcard that is most likely causing the slowness and freezes.
jimbridgman said:
Anything that utilizes the SDcard will slow things down. The type storage that an SDcard is, is not a fast high quality storage. It was always meant to just store your person files on.
A second swap file is not needed. Android already has one it uses as part of the kernel and it is on your internal storage (much faster this way).
I would say yes it is using this swap file on the SDcard that is most likely causing the slowness and freezes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info! I will take it off and compare for few days.
Swapper 2 can severely degrade your SD card if you use it all the time.
I wouldn't recommend using it because I see no reason for it
Sent from my MB865 using xda app-developers app
GlitchedSoul said:
Swapper 2 can severely degrade your SD card if you use it all the time.
I wouldn't recommend using it because I see no reason for it
Sent from my MB865 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got rid of it. Thanks for the info though.
Hallo Everybody.
Tomorrow my Moto G6 will I arrive and I want to order a SDCard.
Does it matter which one I choose?
PeterImmel said:
Hallo Everybody.
Tomorrow my Moto G6 will I arrive and I want to order a SDCard.
Does it matter which one I choose?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes and no.
From my personal experience: Current SDCards are prone to suffer errors. When internal hardware fails, you tipically get a read-only-card. And I experienced it with different brands, from Samsung to Kingston. So my suggestion is: purchase the bigger that you can pay with the maximum quality. Don't waste time with speeds. The duravility is the most valuable thing. And try to: read all you like from the card, but write only the necessary. The lifetime is based on writes.
PeterImmel said:
Hallo Everybody.
Tomorrow my Moto G6 will I arrive and I want to order a SDCard.
Does it matter which one I choose?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use the same Samsung Class 10 128 GB memory card on the next third phone for almost 4 years. I'm happy with her.
manos78 said:
Yes and no.
From my personal experience: Current SDCards are prone to suffer errors. When internal hardware fails, you tipically get a read-only-card. And I experienced it with different brands, from Samsung to Kingston. So my suggestion is: purchase the bigger that you can pay with the maximum quality. Don't waste time with speeds. The duravility is the most valuable thing. And try to: read all you like from the card, but write only the necessary. The lifetime is based on writes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What if someone wants to use the adaptive storage feature? Won't that cause the phone to do a lot of write operations ?
kemoti said:
I use the same Samsung Class 10 128 GB memory card on the next third phone for almost 4 years. I'm happy with her.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, this is the exact same model that just failed to me last time... after only 2 months of work!
I only recommend *PRO* (made for video capture) SD-CARDs for intensive writes!
manos78 said:
Hi, this is the exact same model that just failed to me last time... after only 2 months of work!
I only recommend *PRO* (made for video capture) SD-CARDs for intensive writes!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's weird. This card I wrote about works without any mistakes. I formatted it myself after buying on a computer on FAT32 to be sure. There are also no problems with video recording. But ok, maybe you have not had luck.
kemoti said:
It's weird. This card I wrote about works without any mistakes. I formatted it myself after buying on a computer on FAT32 to be sure. There are also no problems with video recording. But ok, maybe you have not had luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem with SDCards is this: anytime one card is different from another one, even the with same model. The reason is because in fact any SDCard is a collection of flashable blocks... and all cards have errors. In the comodity range of cards, the number of over-provisioned blocks is small. Moreover the active blocks aren't heavy checked. And the SoC that controls the card doesn't have robust algorithms. The result is, after some time doing writes the card starts to fail... until it deads.
In the other hand, SD *PRO* cards are very different. You can write a lot without fails.
So, if you only need to READ from a card (for example, with a MP3 player), then you can use ANY card. But if you need to WRITE to it (for example, in a smartphone; or with a digital camera) then use ONLY *PRO* cards.
I comment this after years of dead cards. Belive me!
And the faster the better, if it isn't fast enough the phone will tell you (when doing the card as internal storage)