Database Info

I/O Issue - Is it really unique to transformer line?

EDITED as more information about other platforms were found.
Based on my reading here, it sounds like there are two theories exist currently.
1, ASUS using old kernel
2. Tegra chip issue
However, following information seems to challenge these hypothesis..
According to this http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=1722799, Iconia A700 has very similar result and also Kernel info shows 2.6.39.4+.
So based on this, I think we can hypothesize couple things:
Hypothesis 1: Kernel is the issue
One flag goes against this is that Nexus 7, which uses the latest kernel did not outperform transformer line by much. So it may boost some, but unlikely to be the sole cause of the problem.
Hypothesis 2: Tegra chipset is the issue
On the andropolice benchmark page, they included HTC One X with Tegra 3 version. It actually outperformed it counterpart and in fact was one of the best I/O benchmark result producing unit excluding Nexus Phone. So it is hard to believe Tegra 3 is the issue.
Hypothesis 3: ASUS is the issue
This well may be true, but when you look at Acer Iconia 700 Tegra 3 HD Screen model, it is as bad or perhaps slightly worse than the Transformer Infinity. So perhaps there is a part of kernel that they share or provided by someone?
Hypothesis 4: Tablet SSD/Flash or other common denominator hardware is the issue
Again this is something based on the Iconia vs. Infinity. Infinity has superior CPU and RAM yet the difference in IO is so subtle. This to me suggest bottleneck lies somewhere else. Such as SSD/Flash drive itself? Though I am not sure if that is major advantage of HTC One over Tablet as you would think smaller drives are tends to be slower and more expensive...
I know we still have not answered anything here, but at least, this result make a step further to suggest underlying issue is NOT unique to infinity but perhaps wider problem across the android tablet. If so, the chance of it getting fixed would either depend on the Google or individual manufactures to put unexpected amount of resource into this...
What do you all think?

HoushaSen said:
Based on my reading here, it sounds like there are two theories exist currently.
1, ASUS using old kernel
2. Tegra chip issue
However, following information seems to challenge these hypothesis..
According to this http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=1722799, Iconia A700 has very similar result and also Kernel info shows 2.6.39.4+.
So based on this, I think we can hypothesize couple things:
Hypothesis 1: Kernel is the issue
If so, who is actually making this kernel? Is it vendors of tablet or Google? i.e. Samsung doing its own customization which includes the newer Kernel? One thing that does not make sense here (at least to me) is that if you look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_version_history, the Kernel is based on the version of Android i.e. sounds like NOT dependent on the manufacture. However, clearly the picture above shows Iconia A700, which runs Ice Cream Sandwitch is not running on newer kernel as stated by the Wiki... So I am a bit confused here...
Hypothesis 2: Tablet SSD or other common denominator hardware is the issue
Considering the faster Tegra 3 (not by much but some), and better RAM (DDR3 vs. DDR2) and minimal differece between the two systems, my guess is Tegra 3 chip or memory is not the bottle neck, but rather SSD or other common component is the issue.
I know we still have not answered anything here, but at least, this result make a step further to suggest underlying issue is NOT unique to infinity but perhaps wider problem across the android tablet. If so, the chance of it getting fixed would either depend on the Google or individual manufactures to put unexpected amount of resource into this...
What do you all think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kernels are created by the manufacturer, they're what tell the OS about the hardware and how to use it. Google makes the Operating system, not the kernel. Each kernel is different on each device because each device has different hardware.
So I'm thinking it's just a software issue. I haven't really looked into it, but I haven't heard a ton of complaints about I/O issues from One X users. I think this whole issue is just normal Android stuff that people are blowing out of proportions because it may be a little worse on this right now. I know on my Bionic when a lot of I/O operations are happening, it slows down a bit. Especially with restoring Titanium Backup files and moving big files around. I'm thinking with a little help from Asus and/or indy devs this won't be a big issue.

If you use old software, you always miss out on some features. (Office 95 won't open OpenDocument-formatted documents, AFAIK. ) That being said, it is quite common for SSDs to use a number of controllers that is suboptimal for the number of memory units. That might be a problem.
Given that I perceive the TF700 to be quite a bit snappier with the SuperCharger, I think it's quite possible the issue is in fact caused by an interaction of multiple factors: standard Android policies (not being able to clear out finished-and-not-to-be-used-anytime-soon apps, filling RAM to the brim py preference), suboptimal hardware (crippled I/O controller(s)?) and software (kernel issues).
The second component obviously is out of reach in terms of solutions.The first component could be alleviated partly -- this going head-on with the considerations for earlier and less capable Android systems -- by using a task killer, or optimizing the system (SuperCharger), and the third component could be solved by some of the unbelievably able kernel enthusiasts we have in the XDA ecosystem.
I think we might have a case on hand here for arguing that the current versions of Android are not really optimal for these high-end devices. Scaling issues are not that rare: Windows scales like crap to less capable devices, whereas all *nix systems I've worked with ran beautifully on pretty much archaic systems, and the latter don't gain as much when upgrading hardware, in my experience. From a cynical point of view, you might argue that that's because they ran REALLY well initially anyway.
The policies in force for both scenarios are necessarily different. It might be beneficial to change some of them a little bit. If Google does not institute that by its mighty self, we can at the least take matters in our own hands.

KilerG said:
Kernels are created by the manufacturer, they're what tell the OS about the hardware and how to use it. Google makes the Operating system, not the kernel. Each kernel is different on each device because each device has different hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I guess Wiki is not correct... They often amazes me how much detail there are and quite frequently right. But I guess not this time as Wiki clearly assigns each Android OS version as based on XXX Linux Kernel. But what you say actual make sense as Kernel is like interface between the OS and underlying hardware so my understanding is Kernel just simply provides set of API that meets the OS demand.
But if this is indeed the case and Kernel is the real conundrum then the chance of it being fixed may be much lower, isn't it? Because fixing kernel or upgrading kernel to newer version probably requires extensive amount of work, which I am not sure any company is willing to do when the machines are already sold.
If it was Google, perhaps they could have indeed updated kernel along with Jellybean, but that's out of picture now except of XDA members.
MartyHulskemper said:
I think we might have a case on hand here for arguing that the current versions of Android are not really optimal for these high-end devices. Scaling issues are not that rare: Windows scales like crap to less capable devices, whereas all *nix systems I've worked with ran beautifully on pretty much archaic systems, and the latter don't gain as much when upgrading hardware, in my experience. From a cynical point of view, you might argue that that's because they ran REALLY well initially anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting argument there. One hope I have here is that if Nexus 7 succeeds, developers are more willing to put apps specific for tablets. yes. they may be 7 inch... but better than 4 or 5 inch scaling to 10.1 inch. Plus Nexus 7 has very similar spec as Transformer Prime, so supporting of such device seem to make ASUS ahead of packs and in fact, (if they decide to do so) they can easily port those knowledge and resources into Transformer line.
But this IO issue may be one reason why iOS avoids true multitasking. I can never download files or load files in a application in background on my iPAD2. It basically freezes the application where left off i.e. not really multitasking. But because of it, most application won't see any issue what other application is running in background (well actually nothing is running in background..but you know what I mean).
So I am not saying, Android should take this approach but perhaps we may have to take that into consideration and appreciate true multitasking in Android. and when the task becomes large (such as IO issue here), we may simply have to understand some tasks are not for multitask friendly...

Mostly interesting questions but when it comes to nvidia and i/o problems lets blame it on the kernel drivers.
Look at around 48 min mark.
www . youtube . com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MShbP3OpASA
Do you think Asus seriously cares about its customers??

HoushaSen said:
So I guess Wiki is not correct... They often amazes me how much detail there are and quite frequently right. But I guess not this time as Wiki clearly assigns each Android OS version as based on XXX Linux Kernel. But what you say actual make sense as Kernel is like interface between the OS and underlying hardware so my understanding is Kernel just simply provides set of API that meets the OS demand.
But if this is indeed the case and Kernel is the real conundrum then the chance of it being fixed may be much lower, isn't it? Because fixing kernel or upgrading kernel to newer version probably requires extensive amount of work, which I am not sure any company is willing to do when the machines are already sold.
If it was Google, perhaps they could have indeed updated kernel along with Jellybean, but that's out of picture now except of XDA members.
Interesting argument there. One hope I have here is that if Nexus 7 succeeds, developers are more willing to put apps specific for tablets. yes. they may be 7 inch... but better than 4 or 5 inch scaling to 10.1 inch. Plus Nexus 7 has very similar spec as Transformer Prime, so supporting of such device seem to make ASUS ahead of packs and in fact, (if they decide to do so) they can easily port those knowledge and resources into Transformer line.
But this IO issue may be one reason why iOS avoids true multitasking. I can never download files or load files in a application in background on my iPAD2. It basically freezes the application where left off i.e. not really multitasking. But because of it, most application won't see any issue what other application is running in background (well actually nothing is running in background..but you know what I mean).
So I am not saying, Android should take this approach but perhaps we may have to take that into consideration and appreciate true multitasking in Android. and when the task becomes large (such as IO issue here), we may simply have to understand some tasks are not for multitask friendly...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope (and actually expect) that JB will fix a lot of these issues, as it seems to tweak lot of elements that might be in the way of Android really deploying on capable hardware. As far as the Nexus 7 goes, it probably is a really nice device, but I am too much infatuated with the HD screen and the battery/keyboard/dock I currently have to even consider going over.
And yes, maybe we just have to accept that, for the time being, real mobile multitasking (i.e., relatively limitless) may be out of reach. According to your experience with the iPad2, it may show that Apple actually did some real-life testing and came to the same conclusion. That may have been the reason for the much criticised decision to not support multitasking.

Someone mentioned on our Infinity fora here that all the flash memory used in today's tablet is the same chip, so it's not somebody in ASUS or Acer didn't want to spend an extra 10$ per device, it must be something else.
I'm still wondering why I get ca. 10MB/s write and ca. 20MB/s read on internal storage and the other way around with (micro)SD or USB storage.
I think all of us are waiting for JB right now.

Its definitely a kernel issue. If you look in the Prime forum, there's a lot of people raving about the IO performance of Motley's kernel. In the TF300 forum, there's been some mention that CM9 improves the browser performance Once we get a bootloader unlock I'd be shocked if we didnt get a better kernel, if Asus hasn't fixed it already by then.

The old kernel is caused by NVidia because in every Tegra 3 device the kernel is the same: 2.6.... Nexus 7 seems to have 3.1 kernel and hopefully all Tegra 3 devices which get JB will get updated kernel. Old kernel isn't Asus' fault. It is NVidia's fault. Google built ICS with 3.0 kernel and that is why almost all other devices except Tegra 3 devices have Linux kernel version 3.0.

attelaut said:
The old kernel is caused by NVidia because in every Tegra 3 device the kernel is the same: 2.6.... Nexus 7 seems to have 3.1 kernel and hopefully all Tegra 3 devices which get JB will get updated kernel. Old kernel isn't Asus' fault. It is NVidia's fault. Google built ICS with 3.0 kernel and that is why almost all other devices except Tegra 3 devices have Linux kernel version 3.0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait correct me if I am wrong. So you are saying, as stated in the Wiki when original Android OS is developed e.g. ICS it used Linux kernel version 3.0.x but then when ASUS or other manufactors using Tegra 3 chip only got access to Kernel 2.6 because it is what Nvida provided? So blame is actually on the Nvidia?
So how did Nexus 7 got new kernel? It uses Tegra 3, ASUS is involved... Is it google that forced NVida to upgrade to newer kernel? In any event, do Kernel usually get updated along with OS update?
One pessimistic comment though.. If we look at Andropolice benchmark Nexus 7 was included there, and their IO result was not much better than Transformer line.

HoushaSen said:
Wait correct me if I am wrong. So you are saying, as stated in the Wiki when original Android OS is developed e.g. ICS it used Linux kernel version 3.0.x but then when ASUS or other manufactors using Tegra 3 chip only got access to Kernel 2.6 because it is what Nvida provided? So blame is actually on the Nvidia?
So how did Nexus 7 got new kernel? It uses Tegra 3, ASUS is involved... Is it google that forced NVida to upgrade to newer kernel? In any event, do Kernel usually get updated along with OS update?
One pessimistic comment though.. If we look at Andropolice benchmark Nexus 7 was included there, and their IO result was not much better than Transformer line.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its entirely possible that Asus decided backporting 3.X's features to a 2.6 kernel would be easier than to do a 3.X kernel from the ground up. Its the route many devices without official ICS have taken to get their community builds and for most of those devices it works just fine.
The Nexus 7 had the advantage of being being handled by Google for software, and as such had no legacy code to be based on. The 700, on the other hand, was close enough to the Prime that Asus probably decided to use the kernel of the later as a base.
This is just speculation though.

jdefi3ebuggdsf32 said:
Mostly interesting questions but when it comes to nvidia and i/o problems lets blame it on the kernel drivers.
Look at around 48 min mark.
www . youtube . com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MShbP3OpASA
Do you think Asus seriously cares about its customers??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So NVIDIA is the issue then? I like his comment, at the end. "So NVIDIA, F*CK YOU."

Jotokun said:
Its entirely possible that Asus decided backporting 3.X's features to a 2.6 kernel would be easier than to do a 3.X kernel from the ground up. Its the route many devices without official ICS have taken to get their community builds and for most of those devices it works just fine.
The Nexus 7 had the advantage of being being handled by Google for software, and as such had no legacy code to be based on. The 700, on the other hand, was close enough to the Prime that Asus probably decided to use the kernel of the later as a base.
This is just speculation though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But reasonable speculation. I don't think you're far off with these assumptions.
Here's hoping that JB and maybe even some kernel updates and tweaks can at least alleviate the IO issues.

The kernel is a part of OS and can be updated when the OS is updated. I think the kernel is old because Nvidia hadn't lot of time to prepare the kernel to be compatible with new android. Now when nvidia have bee working with google and asus so maybe google have helped nvidia to make new kernel to work with tegra 3. If you want new kernel, find a working custom rom with new kernel and use it.

attelaut said:
The kernel is a part of OS and can be updated when the OS is updated. I think the kernel is old because Nvidia hadn't lot of time to prepare the kernel to be compatible with new android. Now when nvidia have bee working with google and asus so maybe google have helped nvidia to make new kernel to work with tegra 3. If you want new kernel, find a working custom rom with new kernel and use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well at this point, we should be waiting for the bootloader to be unlockable. Once we can load custom kernels, the tablet will zooooooooooom.

KilerG said:
Well at this point, we should be waiting for the bootloader to be unlockable. Once we can load custom kernels, the tablet will zooooooooooom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did custom ROMs solve the I/O problems with the Prime entirely? (never owned one)

d14b0ll0s said:
Did custom ROMs solve the I/O problems with the Prime entirely? (never owned one)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to this thread, it does.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1768406

Jotokun said:
According to this thread, it does.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1768406
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no it doesnt help entirely. it helps a bit but it does not solve the problems.
for instance the browser still locks up a lot, some ANR messages every now now and then.
only way to get the browser stable is by using browser2ram.

Seems it can be a hard way out of the T3 path.
Have you tried Dolphin browser on your Prime btw? (if I assume correctly that you own one) It helps a lot on the Infinity (Chrome is slightly faster than the stock browser, but is said not to support H/W acceleration, which makes it slower on content-loaded pages)
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using xda app-developers app

I am sure someone else has already noticed, but HTC One X which had one of top I/O result on Andropolice benchmark has a version with Tegra 3, which still performed well in fact often outperformed its counter part. I could not find which Kernel it uses though. But this may perhaps be one evidence goes against Tegra 3 is the actual issue, but rather something else. And also noting Nexus 7, which used Kernel 3.1 not doing that much better than transformer line also put a flag against Kernel being underlying issue. Could it really be the flash drive itself?
Now to put these in summary, I edited my opening post.

IO Troubles what's the progress on that?

After finally being able to unlock my bootloader (for those still having trouble: I mailed asus directly about it and after the basic tips of factory reset and stuff they elevated my call and suddenly I was able to unlock.. not sure if my mails helped but was quite funny it happened the day they elevated it), I started investigating more on the capabilities of this sweet device. Now basically I wanted to do more with PDF's and well here the IO troubles are a pain So yeh.. is there a firmware team working on it? or is this something we'd have to wait for on asus?
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2

Completely on Asus's side. There is nothing we can do as users without either a better unlock or using flakey hackish workarounds to reduce (tho not eliminate) the problem.
Basically, consider this: You have a car with a corvette engine in it with the transmission of, say, a Ford Model T. You just can't get the power to where its needed.
The Tegra3 chipset is kind of like that. Boatloads of horsepower but it struggles to get that power to the wheels and you get lots of ANR's. Asus needs to find a way in the kernel which is locked tighter than Fort Knox to streamline the process while keeping stability up.

If you want the best experience for pdfs then download perfect viewer and the pdf plug in from Google play and all your io issues will be gone.
Seriously try it. No other pdf viewer can compete.

djmulder said:
After finally being able to unlock my bootloader (for those still having trouble: I mailed asus directly about it and after the basic tips of factory reset and stuff they elevated my call and suddenly I was able to unlock.. not sure if my mails helped but was quite funny it happened the day they elevated it), I started investigating more on the capabilities of this sweet device. Now basically I wanted to do more with PDF's and well here the IO troubles are a pain So yeh.. is there a firmware team working on it? or is this something we'd have to wait for on asus?
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since you're unlocked I suggest you try the Zeus rom v4, just out. Very fast, makes a big difference.

pileot said:
Completely on Asus's side. There is nothing we can do as users without either a better unlock or using flakey hackish workarounds to reduce (tho not eliminate) the problem.
Basically, consider this: You have a car with a corvette engine in it with the transmission of, say, a Ford Model T. You just can't get the power to where its needed.
The Tegra3 chipset is kind of like that. Boatloads of horsepower but it struggles to get that power to the wheels and you get lots of ANR's. Asus needs to find a way in the kernel which is locked tighter than Fort Knox to streamline the process while keeping stability up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Odd, because my Tegra 3 HTC One X is significantly faster than both my TF201 and TF700. Either Asus had botched optimizing the kernel or they cheaped out on the internal memory, yet again.

okantomi said:
Since you're unlocked I suggest you try the Zeus rom v4, just out. Very fast, makes a big difference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeh it's on the planning I am already running a Zeus rom. Just noticed 4 has been released.. can't do it now tho, on 3g and my provider caps the speed after 1gig >.<

REAVER117 said:
Odd, because my Tegra 3 HTC One X is significantly faster than both my TF201 and TF700. Either Asus had botched optimizing the kernel or they cheaped out on the internal memory, yet again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well part of it is the scheduler which far as i know (i could be wrong) is in the kernel. A custom kernel def could help tho we dont have access
Another problem could be cheap memory chips for the internal storage. Chances are they went with the lowest bidder and got crap quality. Why put class 2 chips in a device that demands class 10 or higher? WTG Asus. (speculation on this one, tho it makes sense)
Also, other teg 3 devices could run faster but what other things factor into it? Smaller resolution screen = much less pixels to update. Possibly faster / greater quantity of ram. Different kernel and rom optimizations. Different power managment settings. Different clock settings. Different voltage settings (chips can be undervolted and overclocked with varying results) LOOOOTS of factors go into "why X device might go faster even with the same processor).
Picture this: A semi truck and a smart fortwo are given the exact same engine. Which will go faster? The smartcar. And yet if this were android you would still have people say "But its the same engine! why does the semi go slower?" Same principal.

pileot said:
Well part of it is the scheduler which far as i know (i could be wrong) is in the kernel. A custom kernel def could help tho we dont have access
Another problem could be cheap memory chips for the internal storage. Chances are they went with the lowest bidder and got crap quality. Why put class 2 chips in a device that demands class 10 or higher? WTG Asus. (speculation on this one, tho it makes sense)
Also, other teg 3 devices could run faster but what other things factor into it? Smaller resolution screen = much less pixels to update. Possibly faster / greater quantity of ram. Different kernel and rom optimizations. Different power managment settings. Different clock settings. Different voltage settings (chips can be undervolted and overclocked with varying results) LOOOOTS of factors go into "why X device might go faster even with the same processor).
Picture this: A semi truck and a smart fortwo are given the exact same engine. Which will go faster? The smartcar. And yet if this were android you would still have people say "But its the same engine! why does the semi go slower?" Same principal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well ok that said, (also just speculation) wouldn't "most of the IO troubles" be solved by one brave guy who posts a "how to safely break open your $700 device and replace the internal sd card" ?
My first tablet was a ****ty dropad I picked off some chinese site for $100 .. it's internal memory was in fact a ****ty 4 gig card .. I believe it was class 2 even.. so some brave guy cracked it open and wrote how to do this. So I ended up doing the same and indeed solved alot of problems.

djmulder said:
Well ok that said, (also just speculation) wouldn't "most of the IO troubles" be solved by one brave guy who posts a "how to safely break open your $700 device and replace the internal sd card" ?
My first tablet was a ****ty dropad I picked off some chinese site for $100 .. it's internal memory was in fact a ****ty 4 gig card .. I believe it was class 2 even.. so some brave guy cracked it open and wrote how to do this. So I ended up doing the same and indeed solved alot of problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would have been great if Asus chose to use an internal SD card!! Can you imagine the HACKABILITY?!?!?
Unfortunately no internal sd card in the infinity: http://guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/MHZKnMyJmRCfQwPn.large

oh well darn
tho not entirely sure what I am looking at I do recognise some chips on that pcb
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2

jordanmw said:
It would have been great if Asus chose to use an internal SD card!! Can you imagine the HACKABILITY?!?!?
Unfortunately no internal sd card in the infinity: http://guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/MHZKnMyJmRCfQwPn.large
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on the ifixit site these images were taken from there are memory chips there:
Hynix H26M64002BNR e-NAND and 2x Elpida memory J4216EBBG-GNL-F
Do you know which one is the culprit often mentioned as "cheap" RAM and partly the cause for the IO issues?

djmulder said:
oh well darn
tho not entirely sure what I am looking at I do recognise some chips on that pcb
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not a developer but closely follow the xda forums on all my devices and have learned a few things (but may not use correct terminology, so bear with me). It seems that when we have kernel source code (and ASUS TF700 binaries), kernel devs can use the linaro tool chain and produce some really amazing kernels which, together with the rendering enhancements in Jelly Bean, will improve performance a great deal, across the board. The GPU can be overclocked.. there's a lot that can be done with the hardware we have...just need source code/ASUS TF700 binaries.

rambling1 said:
Based on the ifixit site these images were taken from there are memory chips there:
Hynix H26M64002BNR e-NAND and 2x Elpida memory J4216EBBG-GNL-F
Do you know which one is the culprit often mentioned as "cheap" RAM and partly the cause for the IO issues?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm ok so judging by a quick lookup it's comparable to a class 10 flash? (quick google tho, so I might be WAY off )
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2

There's more information here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6073/the-google-nexus-7-review/6 including some benchmarking of the Infinity, Nexus 7 and Samsung Galaxy Nexus. It does look like Asus cheaped out on the NAND in their tablets.

I'm not so sure that the problem lies in "cheap" components. I've been digging through the kernel source and the only NANDs that keep popping up are:
00491: case 0xD5: /* Hynix H27UAG8T2A, H27UBG8U5A or H27UCG8VFA */
00492: case 0xD7: /* Hynix H27UDG8VEM, H27UCG8UDM or H27UCG8V5A */
first 3 are from Hynix's Q4 2011 Databook and second 2 from the Q2 2009 Databook (couldn't find the last one) and none of them match the one seen in the teardown http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Asus-Transformer-Infinity-TF-700-Teardown/10306/1
(Sorry, formatting got ruined so I did a quick -- insert to make it readable)
Product -- Tech -- Density -- Block Size -- Stack -- Vcc/Org -- Package -- Avail. -- Remark
H27UAG8T2A-- 4ynm-- 16Gb -- 512KB(4KB Page)-- SDP --3.3v/X8-- TSOP-- EOL
H27UBG8U5A-- 4ynm-- 32Gb -- 512KB(4KB Page)-- DDP-- 3.3v/X8-- TSOP-- EOL
H27UCG8VFA-- 4ynm 64Gb-- 512KB(4KB Page)-- QDP-- 3.3v/X8-- TSOP-- EOL
H27UDG8VEM -- 41nm-- 128Gb -- 512KB(4KB Page) -- QDP -- 3.3v/X8 -- VLGA -- Mar. 09 -- 4CE,Dual CH.
H27UCG8UDM -- 41nm -- 64Gb -- 512KB(4KB Page) -- DDP --3.3v/X8 -- VLGA -- Mar. 09 -- Dual CH.
H27UCG8V5A-- ?-- ? -- ? -- ?-- ?-- ?-- ?-- ?
I honestly think that ASUS is just kicking these things out the door as fast as possible and not putting enough time into actually working on or even attempting to co-develop drivers. They just slap in a reference driver that works and go. Even the JB source for TF300 has the exact same NANDs referenced.
After seeing this I started looking through the Prime forum and see the devs there had came to this conclusion months ago. It seems we've put to much faith into this company. Yes, they've set the bar a little higher in terms of hardware, but they apparently are unwilling or unable to make it work well

As mentioned before with proper source code developers could fix a lot. We need to push for source code.
The io performance has something to do with the synching between tegra and sqlite. It's so bad or it was on tf201 that it can't possibly be all hardware as a cause.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda app-developers app

Would you still Recommend the TF700 Today?

Im looking at upgrading my Toshiba Thrive to the TF700. From reading reviews all over the net it is still rated in the top 3
If you were looking to buy a tab today would you still buy the TF700? If not what would you buy?
And NO Apple anything is not on the menu for me, never, never, never
Thanks for the input

IT just depends on your wants and need. The Nexus10 out performs the TF700 but has limited storage, no USB port and no keyboard dock. Also, unless you are willing to unlock the performance stock will be not that great.
Tylor
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD
ROM: CleanRom Xenogenesis 4.4 DeOdex
Kernel: Hundsbuah's V3.0.5 OC Kernel
Theme: Timberwolf's Blues and Jazz Theme

Tylorw1 said:
IT just depends on your wants and need. The Nexus10 out performs the TF700 but has limited storage, no USB port and no keyboard dock. Also, unless you are willing to unlock the performance stock will be not that great.
Tylor
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD
ROM: CleanRom Xenogenesis 4.4 DeOdex
Kernel: Hundsbuah's V3.0.5 OC Kernel
Theme: Timberwolf's Blues and Jazz Theme
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would root the tab, My Thrive and Rezound is rooted running custom roms.
I just am not sure if I should wait a few months to see what the latest and greatest tab will be,
I mostly use the tab to surf the net and check email, thats pretty much all I do with the tab

Hitch_Itch said:
I would root the tab, My Thrive and Rezound is rooted running custom roms.
I just am not sure if I should wait a few months to see what the latest and greatest tab will be,
I mostly use the tab to surf the net and check email, thats pretty much all I do with the tab
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If that is about it then the TF700 would not be bad. In order to install custom ROMS you must unlock thus voiding ASUS factory warranty. The keyboard dock makes it SOOO much easier surfing the web and typing up things.
Tylor
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD
ROM: CleanRom Xenogenesis 4.4 DeOdex
Kernel: Hundsbuah's V3.0.5 OC Kernel
Theme: Timberwolf's Blues and Jazz Theme

Nope.
I would no longer recomend this tablet. After the last update it has become very unstable, and I was never happy with the speed. Apps crash regularly (including system apps) and do not behave as expected. I would find a more stable device if I were starting over.

No deep sleep
The only reason I cant recommend this tablet is because it does not have a deep sleep function. Well it supposedly does but it never works since the first day i got it. I have made all the changes that have come through in suggestions and nothing works to correct this. It almost seems worse since 4.2.1 update but it was still bad before that.
Other then the no deep sleep I think its a great tablet.

Íf you're willing to unlock and install custom ROMs, there's no tablet in the market that will beat the TF700.
The Nexus 10 has a high resolution and is faster when comparing stock, but it has no MicroSD slot, no dock (and thus no USB, no extra battery, no extra SDslot..)...

Hitch_Itch said:
I would root the tab, My Thrive and Rezound is rooted running custom roms.
I just am not sure if I should wait a few months to see what the latest and greatest tab will be,
I mostly use the tab to surf the net and check email, thats pretty much all I do with the tab
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since the tf700 has a permanent issue with I/O bottleneck, it only can do so much. Imagine a custom rom/O/C kernel on the Nexus 10, definitely better than the tf700 in term of multitasking. Nexus 10 does have mini usb port which you can add a mini usb for a external sdcard. A wireless mini third party keyboard/mouse would be nice since the tf700 with dock is impossible to place on your lab (fliping over due to unbalance design, tablet is heavier than the keyboard). I would take the nexus 10 without hesitation.

Thanks for everyone's input, keep them coming.
Im still very curious on peoples thoughts about all the new tabs that are coming out withing a few months
Thanks

Hitch_Itch said:
Thanks for everyone's input, keep them coming.
Im still very curious on peoples thoughts about all the new tabs that are coming out withing a few months
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The new tablet will no doubt surpass this tablet, however it will require you to wait, which might be worth it, or may not be. I personally am eager to see if ASUS releases a new transformer using a Tegra4 or a Snapdragon SoC, maybe even an intel. That would be awesome. And maybe better i/o performance because the i/o sucks but my tablet still runs great and with DATA2SD can solve the issue, mostly anyways.
Tylor
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD
ROM: CleanRom Xenogenesis 4.4 DeOdex
Kernel: Hundsbuah's V3.0.5 OC Kernel
Theme: Timberwolf's Blues and Jazz Theme

Tylorw1 said:
The new tablet will no doubt surpass this tablet, however it will require you to wait, which might be worth it, or may not be. I personally am eager to see if ASUS releases a new transformer using a Tegra4 or a Snapdragon SoC, maybe even an intel. That would be awesome. And maybe better i/o performance because the i/o sucks but my tablet still runs great and with DATA2SD can solve the issue, mostly anyways.
Tylor
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD
ROM: CleanRom Xenogenesis 4.4 DeOdex
Kernel: Hundsbuah's V3.0.5 OC Kernel
Theme: Timberwolf's Blues and Jazz Theme
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Other manufacturers show some promise as well, wondering about Samsung and Sony has a nice tablet coming out and the end of the month

Hitch_Itch said:
Other manufacturers show some promise as well, wondering about Samsung and Sony has a nice tablet coming out and the end of the month
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes they do indeed. But I doubt I will ever get a touch screen tablet/laptop without a keyboard. I have experienced both typing and tapping and using a tablet to type things up is a pain. And I very much dislike having to carry around a bluetooth one. The keyboard dock makes it efficient and easy to carry around.
Tylor
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD
ROM: CleanRom Xenogenesis 4.4 DeOdex
Kernel: Hundsbuah's V3.0.5 OC Kernel
Theme: Timberwolf's Blues and Jazz Theme

To me, the Nexus 10 is an inferior device. Simply because it has a fixed amount of storage. Cloud is useless when you leave the house, OTG adapters are pointless when you're trying to walk around with it or use public transport. With the TF700, I have two 64GB MicroSD's extra on top of the 64GB internal, an USB port that supports my 2TB flashdrive (the OTG adapter on the nexus just gives "Voltage too high" on any flashdrive.), 9 more hours of battery and a keyboard and trackpad that doesn't eat my battery even more. (which bluetooth, wifi and USB does.)
For all that, i'll wait the extra second it aparently takes for things to load. Besides, it's still a full 10 seconds faster than that snail of a GT2 10.1...
And, and this is my personal opinion; feel free to disagree, it's ugly as hell. Looks like a cheap plastic toy you buy at Toys 'R Us... At least the TF700 look sleek and modern (and scifi-y).
buhohitr said:
the tf700 with dock is impossible to place on your lab (fliping over due to unbalance design, tablet is heavier than the keyboard).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you on about? Mine always sits on my lap, with the dock, for a whole 6.5 hours a day minimum. It has never fallen over. Not even once. Either it's because I have the better balanced TF201 dock, or you just want an angle that physics doesn't allow.
Hitch_Itch said:
Other manufacturers show some promise as well, wondering about Samsung and Sony has a nice tablet coming out and the end of the month
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung "announced" the Tab 3 last week. But it will have a Dual core, 2gb RAM and *shudder* 1280x800. Which essentially makes it rubbish. All it has over the Tab 2 is 1GB more RAM. Not worth the upgrade.

I got a question guys I am stuck between deciding between these two tablets. I love my Galaxy S3 because of the ease of flashing, the display, great battery life and development. I checked out and was impressed with the tab 2 10.1 and am going to check out the TF700 tomorrow. I am getting the tablet for reading magazines, books, and streaming videos I have on my computer/tversity during bedtime (some of which are MKVs)
How would you guys say the battery life compared on the two machines?
How would you say the display compares?

zetsui said:
I got a question guys I am stuck between deciding between these two tablets. I love my Galaxy S3 because of the ease of flashing, the display, great battery life and development. I checked out and was impressed with the tab 2 10.1 and am going to check out the TF700 tomorrow. I am getting the tablet for reading magazines, books, and streaming videos I have on my computer/tversity during bedtime (some of which are MKVs)
How would you guys say the battery life compared on the two machines?
How would you say the display compares?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung and Asus just announced their new Tabs that are coming out sometime within the 3rd Qtr of this year
If you could, I would wait, the Sammy looks amazing, not much for details on the Asus yet

Hitch_Itch said:
If you could, I would wait, the Sammy looks amazing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks like they have finally found a supplier of high resolution displays.

Hitch_Itch said:
Samsung and Asus just announced their new Tabs that are coming out sometime within the 3rd Qtr of this year
If you could, I would wait, the Sammy looks amazing, not much for details on the Asus yet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what my cousin told me but I note it's a NOTE not a tab...if it's like the previous notes I still would like to know more about the TF700 vs the Tab 2 10.1
I don't like the note, I don't need it for S-pen or note taking and I felt like it's battery life isn't up to par with the other two either.
Could someone who has had both reply to those two questions?

zetsui said:
That's what my cousin told me but I note it's a NOTE not a tab...if it's like the previous notes I still would like to know more about the TF700 vs the Tab 2 10.1
I don't like the note, I don't need it for S-pen or note taking and I felt like it's battery life isn't up to par with the other two either.
Could someone who has had both reply to those two questions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung is coming out with the Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition)-http://www.androidcentral.com/hands-samsung-galaxy-note-101-2014
Asus is coming out with a new Transformer Pad TF701- scroll down the page-http://http://www.androidcentral.com/asus-announces-new-fonepad-note-transformer-pad-701transformer-book-and-new-memo-pads
Im getting one or the other and retiring my Toshiba Thrive.
Both look super sweet, Its going to be a hard choice

zetsui said:
That's what my cousin told me but I note it's a NOTE not a tab...if it's like the previous notes I still would like to know more about the TF700 vs the Tab 2 10.1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DO NOT GET THE TAB 2 10.1.
Worst money I ever spend.
It's sluggish as hell, the resolution is a horrendous 1280x800 and it can't read 95% of all external storage devices. Input is very unresponsive if you're used to the snappyness of a higher-end device like the s3. (half the time ot doesn't register untill I actually apply pressure.) Screen is also rather dark.
Haven't had the chance to try the 3 yet, but the only advantage that has its one GB more RAM.
As for the tf700, it lags on occasion, but still runs laps around the gt2 10.1. And you can use it without having to draw the curtains.
The new note tab is looks very sweet, but samsung has no experience with HD on a tablet, or that resolution anywhere at all. (1280x800 is not HD unless you're blind.) So i would wait to see what that does anyway .
Wait for the new Transformer, with a bit of luck they solved the I/O lag.
Send From My Samsung Galaxy S3 Using Tapatalk 2

Hitch_Itch said:
Samsung is coming out with the Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 (2014 Edition)-http://www.androidcentral.com/hands-samsung-galaxy-note-101-2014
Asus is coming out with a new Transformer Pad TF701- scroll down the page-http://http://www.androidcentral.com/asus-announces-new-fonepad-note-transformer-pad-701transformer-book-and-new-memo-pads
Im getting one or the other and retiring my Toshiba Thrive.
Both look super sweet, Its going to be a hard choice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ShadowLea said:
DO NOT GET THE TAB 2 10.1.
Worst money I ever spend.
It's sluggish as hell, the resolution is a horrendous 1280x800 and it can't read 95% of all external storage devices. Input is very unresponsive if you're used to the snappyness of a higher-end device like the s3. (half the time ot doesn't register untill I actually apply pressure.) Screen is also rather dark.
Haven't had the chance to try the 3 yet, but the only advantage that has its one GB more RAM.
As for the tf700, it lags on occasion, but still runs laps around the gt2 10.1. And you can use it without having to draw the curtains.
The new note tab is looks very sweet, but samsung has no experience with HD on a tablet, or that resolution anywhere at all. (1280x800 is not HD unless you're blind.) So i would wait to see what that does anyway .
Wait for the new Transformer, with a bit of luck they solved the I/O lag.
Send From My Samsung Galaxy S3 Using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn....wow you just 180'd me you crazy Dutch woman But your response was a little biased 1280x800 can definitely be considered HD. I benchmark Diablo 3 Youtube cinematics on that resolution when I'm in store
The three is the same as the 2, 1 more gig ram and 1 hour less battery life. Not a good reception
Can I ask did you root and install a custom AOSP or CM rom on it by chance or are you basing your TAB 2 10.1 experience on stock? That's what I plan on doing from day 1 and what I based my experience with my S3 on? I would never run an ATT Verizon bloated version of a tab and judge based n that
Is she wrong guys with coming off a little hard, can someone else who is running AOSP preferably comment on the snappiness? In store it really seemed great to be frank.

Possible to manually replace the flash memory?

How feasible would it be to have a decent comp engineer to take out the old flash memory and put in a decent spec version to blast up the I/O it's risky obviously but could it work? Anyone with this sort of experience know how interchangeable these chips are? Or are they pretty device specific?
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app

I think this has been spoken of before. It is possible but all the skill and knowledge needed to do so would not really be worth the effort on the tablet. Even if successful it is risky to attempt as the main board in the tablet is meant to be all together, and not bothered.
Tylor
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD

Might have a go once I've got some money together!
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app

Data2sd works well and is much invasive ... first do no harm
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app

For my money, I'd rather swap out the 1GB memory chip for either a 2 or 4GB module. Slow I/O wouldn't be as big a deal if the system could keep more things in RAM, and it would prolong the device life as well. The specs on these things are great, but I fear having only 1GB of RAM will start to really hurt as programs get larger and high-definition assets become more prevalent.
I found a video on YouTube where a guy has two Android phones with similar specs side-by-side, one with 1GB of RAM and the other with 2GB. The lag between switching applications caused by having to restart ones that get killed due to low memory is jarring.
But, since reality says it's cheaper to just buy a new device, that's probably what I'll do (in time anyway). That new one from HP (Slatebook X2 I think it's called) looks quite nice. Tegra4/Cortex-A15 with 2GB of RAM, HD display, and keyboard dock included for $479USD. Yummy!

becomingx said:
For my money, I'd rather swap out the 1GB memory chip for either a 2 or 4GB module. Slow I/O wouldn't be as big a deal if the system could keep more things in RAM, and it would prolong the device life as well. The specs on these things are great, but I fear having only 1GB of RAM will start to really hurt as programs get larger and high-definition assets become more prevalent.
I found a video on YouTube where a guy has two Android phones with similar specs side-by-side, one with 1GB of RAM and the other with 2GB. The lag between switching applications caused by having to restart ones that get killed due to low memory is jarring.
But, since reality says it's cheaper to just buy a new device, that's probably what I'll do (in time anyway). That new one from HP (Slatebook X2 I think it's called) looks quite nice. Tegra4/Cortex-A15 with 2GB of RAM, HD display, and keyboard dock included for $479USD. Yummy!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are correct about being able to pack more things into RAM to make things faster and smoother, but I can hardly watch a full HD movie from the internal storage without the tablet beginning to become crippled.
I am eager to start seeing tablets with the tag "Intel Inside" lol. And maybe instead of a sdcard thingy, how about a full sata III SSD , wouldnt that be sweet? lol a i/o speed to keep up with RAM . The new convertible tablets that can run Android or Windows 8 seem really sweet that have SSDs and internal SD cards but right now they are way to much for me.
Tylor
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD

Tylorw1 said:
You are correct about being able to pack more things into RAM to make things faster and smoother, but I can hardly watch a full HD movie from the internal storage without the tablet beginning to become crippled.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you elaborate? How does it get crippled?
I am eager to start seeing tablets with the tag "Intel Inside" lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If Intel can do it without needing active cooling, I'm all for it. There's actually some obscure model Transformer powered by an Intel chip and it looks absolutely ridiculous -- the body is rather thick and it needs big ol' cooling vents on the back.
And maybe instead of a sdcard thingy, how about a full sata III SSD , wouldnt that be sweet? lol a i/o speed to keep up with RAM .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't imagine what adding an SSD using SATA3 would do to the price. :laugh:
The new convertible tablets that can run Android or Windows 8 seem really sweet that have SSDs and internal SD cards but right now they are way to much for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got a link? I'd like to see.

becomingx said:
Can you elaborate? How does it get crippled?
When watching a movie, the i/o speed is not good enough to do other stuff with it. Like when you ae watching a movie, it is kind of a idle thinking, and if you would want to move files to the device from your computer while watching a movie. The movie will lag and the file transfer would be extremely slow.
If Intel can do it without needing active cooling, I'm all for it. There's actually some obscure model Transformer powered by an Intel chip and it looks absolutely ridiculous -- the body is rather thick and it needs big ol' cooling vents on the back.
Yeah Intel makes monster CPUs though. I am sure behind the scenes in Intel's labs they got processors for mobile devices already and are finalizing them. But the speed would be great .
I can't imagine what adding an SSD using SATA3 would do to the price. :laugh:
SSDs have gone down a lot, but for the performance increase and paying $50 for a 32GB SSD
Got a link? I'd like to see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://androidcommunity.com/asus-tr...d-android-dual-boot-tablet-hands-on-20120604/
I cannot find the article/tablet about a smaller one but there is one, its kinda big though lol.
Tylor
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD

becomingx said:
If Intel can do it without needing active cooling, I'm all for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Silvermont looks promising.
becomingx said:
I can't imagine what adding an SSD using SATA3 would do to the price. :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd happily pay 10% more for my device to get 1000% more I/O performance.

Agreed.
Ahh well, frustrating. Possibly the advent of a new flagship transformer may solve this.
How is the pad phone in this regard?
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app

Tylorw1 said:
When watching a movie, the i/o speed is not good enough to do other stuff with it. Like when you ae watching a movie, it is kind of a idle thinking, and if you would want to move files to the device from your computer while watching a movie. The movie will lag and the file transfer would be extremely slow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, I see. Android isn't much of a multitasker as far as foreground applications go, so I wasn't sure how you could've been doing something else while watching a movie. I try to do as much as I can from the microSD card, which makes me kind of sad thinking about it
Yeah Intel makes monster CPUs though. I am sure behind the scenes in Intel's labs they got processors for mobile devices already and are finalizing them. But the speed would be great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed. Although, the Cortex-A15 chips look pretty good. The hardware virtualization extensions are especially interesting. It's not really practical without a good amount of RAM, but the prospect of running an x86 virtual machine at near native speed on my tablet makes me tingle with excitement!
SSDs have gone down a lot, but for the performance increase and paying $50 for a 32GB SSD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Didn't realize they had gotten that cheap. Of course, you're also going to be paying for the SATA controller, and for some engineers to work it into the hardware and software design.
http://androidcommunity.com/asus-tr...d-android-dual-boot-tablet-hands-on-20120604/
I cannot find the article/tablet about a smaller one but there is one, its kinda big though lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I'll check it out!
---------- Post added at 07:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 AM ----------
_that said:
Silvermont looks promising.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool! Another thing I'll have to check out.
I'd happily pay 10% more for my device to get 1000% more I/O performance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Heh, If ASUS cheaped out on the internal storage in the first place to maximize profits, what makes you think they're going to only charge you the "off-the-shelf" price for the additional hardware?

becomingx said:
Indeed. Although, the Cortex-A15 chips look pretty good. The hardware virtualization extensions are especially interesting. It's not really practical without a good amount of RAM, but the prospect of running an x86 virtual machine at near native speed on my tablet makes me tingle with excitement!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think that these virtualization extensions magically make the ARM CPU run x86 code anywhere near native speed.
But these will:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6936/...tecture-revealed-getting-serious-about-mobile
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6975/amd-kabini-apus-detailed
becomingx said:
Didn't realize they had gotten that cheap. Of course, you're also going to be paying for the SATA controller, and for some engineers to work it into the hardware and software design.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tegra 3 already has a built-in SATA controller.
becomingx said:
Heh, If ASUS cheaped out on the internal storage in the first place to maximize profits, what makes you think they're going to only charge you the "off-the-shelf" price for the additional hardware?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I can buy it "off the shelf" for amount X, that includes taxes, shipping, packaging, warranty, distributor's and ratailer margins - so a manufacturer should be easily able to get it for X/2. But I don't expect ASUS to build the device exactly as I want anyway...

_that said:
I don't think that these virtualization extensions magically make the ARM CPU run x86 code anywhere near native speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, I haven't been able to find much data yet on how the extensions compare to their x86 counterparts, but I would think they should do quite well. Is there any reason why the combination of QEMU and KVM wouldn't be able to pull this off?
But these will:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6936/...tecture-revealed-getting-serious-about-mobile
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6975/amd-kabini-apus-detailed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lots of good stuff here, thanks.
Tegra 3 already has a built-in SATA controller.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whaaa? I had no idea (obviously).
If I can buy it "off the shelf" for amount X, that includes taxes, shipping, packaging, warranty, distributor's and ratailer margins - so a manufacturer should be easily able to get it for X/2. But I don't expect ASUS to build the device exactly as I want anyway...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, I guess you've got me there.

becomingx said:
True, I haven't been able to find much data yet on how the extensions compare to their x86 counterparts, but I would think they should do quite well. Is there any reason why the combination of QEMU and KVM wouldn't be able to pull this off?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure that it will work, but given that the Android emulator is quite slow even on a fast PC (emulating ARM on x86), I doubt that the inverse emulation on a less powerful CPU will be fast enough to run Windows (and I can't think of any other reason why one would want x86).

_that said:
I'm sure that it will work, but given that the Android emulator is quite slow even on a fast PC (emulating ARM on x86), I doubt that the inverse emulation on a less powerful CPU will be fast enough to run Windows (and I can't think of any other reason why one would want x86).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which emulator are you referring to?

becomingx said:
Which emulator are you referring to?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The one from the SDK.

_that said:
The one from the SDK.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah. That one doesn't make use of the KVM for ARM virtualization. So, yes, it will run like a dog with no legs.
For now, I guess I'll have to play the wait-and-see game, but I'm hopeful that the geniuses that have made it possible for me to run two Linux systems and a Windows system on top of another Linux system with excellent performance for all four at the same time can make it happen. Although, I am realistic and know that x86 on ARM may not be quite as good as x86 on x86.
(It doesn't *have* to be Windows on the tablet by the way, running a full Linux stack in a virtual machine rather than dual-booting or chrooting or some other nonsense is appealing to me at least. )

[Q] TF300T - F2FS or ext4 when setting up with Kit Kat Kat Kiss

I have had my TF101 for just over three years, and had an opportunity to pick up the TF300T with dock pretty cheap. I'm planning to unlock and install Kit Kat Kat Kiss (Thanks TimDuru). I have read a bit about the F2FS being better than the ext4 setup on the TF300T.
Could some of you who have used both tell me what you think. Is it worth setting the tablet up with F2FS from the get go? Will I see noticeable improvements in operation day to day? I'm not really concerned with where the benchmark scores look, but much more with the day to day feel and usage.
Thanks in advance,
Donald

Dunno about Kat Kiss, but the tablet runs awesome with OmniROM, grimlock kernel and f2fs. The main problem of this tablet is cheap memory modules with horrible i/o speeds, it really bottlenecks the performance of the device and gives you hellish lag, so transition to f2fs will make your tablet noticeably snappier. It won't be ideal and totally butter-smooth anyway because thanks asus, but waaaaaay better than without it. So yes, I really do reccomend you to switch on f2fs as soon as you get the device

Thanks for the response. Actually was thinking of running a few benchmarks starting from stock ICS to stock jellybean both with ext4. After that root and ROM and repeat with f2fs. May be a few days till I get around to it.

Benchmarks are rubbish, they won't show you the real situation with performance. Although you can test i/o speeds on ext and f2fs, they should increase.
Also, I heard that tablet runs great with stock ICS but it's a bit of a pain in the ass to flash it.

"hellish lag"? Not seeing any hellish lag running KatKiss and ext4.

Depends on what you consider to be hellish You can make your tablet work just ok but for a device with a quad-core cpu overclockable up to 1.7Ghz it should work better. I remember tablet with stock 4.2 ROM giving me almost the same interface stutter as my old HTC Wildfire S with CM10. Now go to wikipedia and check out the hardware of the phone :silly:
Anyway, cheap ass memory really is the problem and there is nothing we can do about it. Just check your read-write speeds and compare them to other devices - they are low, disbalanced, and the memory performance can significantly drop over time.

Sviborg2241 said:
Depends on what you consider to be hellish You can make your tablet work just ok but for a device with a quad-core cpu overclockable up to 1.7Ghz it should work better. I remember tablet with stock 4.2 ROM giving me almost the same interface stutter as my old HTC Wildfire S with CM10. Now go to wikipedia and check out the hardware of the phone :silly:
Anyway, cheap ass memory really is the problem and there is nothing we can do about it. Just check your read-write speeds and compare them to other devices - they are low, disbalanced, and the memory performance can significantly drop over time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think there's any issue with "cheap memory". It's the first time I've heard someone claim this for the TF300. If there is any issue, it's the fact Tegra 3 is old technology, and was never great to begin with. I have a stack of tablets home, and the closest one I have to the TF300 is the 2012 Nexus 7. The hardware is almost identical, but the TF300 easily beats in in Antutu when clocked at the same speed. The DDR3 in the TF300 is also faster than the DDR2 in the higher end TF201.

just lou said:
I don't think there's any issue with "cheap memory". It's the first time I've heard someone claim this for the TF300. If there is any issue, it's the fact Tegra 3 is old technology, and was never great to begin with. I have a stack of tablets home, and the closest one I have to the TF300 is the 2012 Nexus 7. The hardware is almost identical, but the TF300 easily beats in in Antutu when clocked at the same speed. The DDR3 in the TF300 is also faster than the DDR2 in the higher end TF201.
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It's not about RAM, it's about internal flash memory. Google it, the problem affects transformer prime as well. Some links with more info:
http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/0...hmark-11-modern-devices-compared-in-13-tests/
http://jaredleonmorgan.blogspot.com/2013/08/upgrading-emmc-in-transformer-tf300t-to.html
http://www.transformerforums.com/fo...n/32988-tf300t-jb-4-1-1-oficial-slow-i-o.html
I'll post a comparsion between i/o speeds on N5 and tf300 a bit later
Edit: ok, take a look. Both tests were made on 4.4.4 ROMs, ART, deadline scheduler. The results without f2fs on tf300 were a bit worse back that time i was on ext4
http://i.imgur.com/OgomltN.png
http://i.imgur.com/ENQZpBY.png

Am I supposed to be surprised an N5 smokes the T300?

just lou said:
Am I supposed to be surprised an N5 smokes the T300?
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Dude, this test only measures internal storage speed, not overall performance

No kidding, The N5' s memory bandwidth is many times faster than the TF300. It still has nothing to do with "cheap ass memory".

just lou said:
No kidding, The N5' s memory bandwidth is many times faster than the TF300. It still has nothing to do with "cheap ass memory".
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So maybe you should check the links I posted before, where it was tested along with other devices with more similar specs? Gosh you are a stubborn guy

I'm stubborn? lol. You're the one going out of your way to prove and an old tablet was built with "cheap ass memory".
Sent from my HTC6525LVW using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

I just try to prove my point of view with an actual information and tests, not just "I think so and I'm right"
anyway it's not the point of this thread and it's up to you to be ok with your tablet

Sviborg2241 said:
I just try to prove my point of view with an actual information and tests, not just "I think so and I'm right"
anyway it's not the point of this thread and it's up to you to be ok with your tablet
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What happened to, and I quote:" Benchmarks are rubbish, they won't show you the real situation with performance"? You can't pick and choose only to post them when they support your point of view. My "real situation and performance" is that I don't have the " hellish lag " you claim to have. I accept the tablet for what it is. Old hardware built with the disappointing Tegra 3 architecture.

just lou said:
What happened to, and I quote:" Benchmarks are rubbish, they won't show you the real situation with performance"? You can't pick and choose only to post them when they support your point of view. My "real situation and performance" is that I don't have the " hellish lag " you claim to have. I accept the tablet for what it is. Old hardware built with the disappointing Tegra 3 architecture.
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Oh man sorry, about benchmarks. I meant stuff like antutu or whatever, when people tend to think that points in such apps directly show you the level of the device performance, although a rom with ~17000 points in antutu could have the same level of performance with ~12000 points rom on the same device. I tried to use the app that directly measures i/o speeds of the memory chips and nothing else and prove that the device really has the problem with it compared to other devices. Sorry for misunderstanding
I just hope that someone will find something useful about our arguing, peace! :silly:

I'm not arguing. I'm having fun,
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Interesting conversation that has come up from my question. I understand that the RAM is older and that some people have complained about the write speed. I suppose I was looking for more about how the ext4 versus F2FS perform and how people feel about it.
That being said, My TF300T was delivered yesterday while I was at work. I put a full charge on the tablet and on the dock. Once that was done I powered everything up. It was shipped with the 4.1 flavor of Jellybean, So I couldn't do any testing of the ICS as benchmarking. In looking up the ICS release specs, I found the Antutu score to be 10,271. I took the 4.2 update and ran a couple benchmarks on it before doing the fun stuff. The 4.2 score on my TF300T showed at 10,417. After that I unlocked, pushed the F2FS TWRP 2.7 to it as the recovery and then installed the KatKiss Kit Kat ROM along with the appropriate F2FS kernel and the Banks Mininal GAPPS. I ran the Antutu again after rebooting and wiping cache and Dalvik. I came up with a score of 18,512. Interestingly I had a friends TF300T at the house which is also running the KatKiss Kit Kat ROM using the ext4 formatting. Hers scored 18,677.
All of that being said, I understand the benchmarks don't tell the whole story. I know that the write speed can be an important comparison. I know that in my case the ext4 did score just slightly higher. In sitting with both tablets in front of me, the one with F2FS just felt more snappy/quicker to respond to commands. Apps when pressed at the same time seem to load a bit faster on the F2FS. I don't think it is a matter of the tablet with ext4 being more bogged down or so on. It was set up roughly a week before my new one arrived. both tablets have roughly the same apps loaded on them.
All in all so far I am very pleased with the move from the TF101 to the TF300T, and especially for the price. I know it's not the newest/latest/greatest tablet out there and I was ok with that when I made the decision to snag it. I like the quadcore processor and the additional on board storage space (my TF101 was the 16gb variety).
As I play with it more, I'll see if there are lags or other annoyances.
BTW, does anyone have the stock TF300T Asus widgets like the weather and email ones? I enjoyed having them on the TF101, though the weather never seemed to work quite right.
Thanks,
Donald

USCJustice said:
BTW, does anyone have the stock TF300T Asus widgets like the weather and email ones? I enjoyed having them on the TF101, though the weather never seemed to work quite right.
Thanks,
Donald
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You can try these, but they haven't been updated in a long time and I have no idea if they'll work. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1586517
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Thanks for the link. I will give them a try.