EDITED as more information about other platforms were found.
Based on my reading here, it sounds like there are two theories exist currently.
1, ASUS using old kernel
2. Tegra chip issue
However, following information seems to challenge these hypothesis..
According to this http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=1722799, Iconia A700 has very similar result and also Kernel info shows 2.6.39.4+.
So based on this, I think we can hypothesize couple things:
Hypothesis 1: Kernel is the issue
One flag goes against this is that Nexus 7, which uses the latest kernel did not outperform transformer line by much. So it may boost some, but unlikely to be the sole cause of the problem.
Hypothesis 2: Tegra chipset is the issue
On the andropolice benchmark page, they included HTC One X with Tegra 3 version. It actually outperformed it counterpart and in fact was one of the best I/O benchmark result producing unit excluding Nexus Phone. So it is hard to believe Tegra 3 is the issue.
Hypothesis 3: ASUS is the issue
This well may be true, but when you look at Acer Iconia 700 Tegra 3 HD Screen model, it is as bad or perhaps slightly worse than the Transformer Infinity. So perhaps there is a part of kernel that they share or provided by someone?
Hypothesis 4: Tablet SSD/Flash or other common denominator hardware is the issue
Again this is something based on the Iconia vs. Infinity. Infinity has superior CPU and RAM yet the difference in IO is so subtle. This to me suggest bottleneck lies somewhere else. Such as SSD/Flash drive itself? Though I am not sure if that is major advantage of HTC One over Tablet as you would think smaller drives are tends to be slower and more expensive...
I know we still have not answered anything here, but at least, this result make a step further to suggest underlying issue is NOT unique to infinity but perhaps wider problem across the android tablet. If so, the chance of it getting fixed would either depend on the Google or individual manufactures to put unexpected amount of resource into this...
What do you all think?
HoushaSen said:
Based on my reading here, it sounds like there are two theories exist currently.
1, ASUS using old kernel
2. Tegra chip issue
However, following information seems to challenge these hypothesis..
According to this http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=1722799, Iconia A700 has very similar result and also Kernel info shows 2.6.39.4+.
So based on this, I think we can hypothesize couple things:
Hypothesis 1: Kernel is the issue
If so, who is actually making this kernel? Is it vendors of tablet or Google? i.e. Samsung doing its own customization which includes the newer Kernel? One thing that does not make sense here (at least to me) is that if you look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_version_history, the Kernel is based on the version of Android i.e. sounds like NOT dependent on the manufacture. However, clearly the picture above shows Iconia A700, which runs Ice Cream Sandwitch is not running on newer kernel as stated by the Wiki... So I am a bit confused here...
Hypothesis 2: Tablet SSD or other common denominator hardware is the issue
Considering the faster Tegra 3 (not by much but some), and better RAM (DDR3 vs. DDR2) and minimal differece between the two systems, my guess is Tegra 3 chip or memory is not the bottle neck, but rather SSD or other common component is the issue.
I know we still have not answered anything here, but at least, this result make a step further to suggest underlying issue is NOT unique to infinity but perhaps wider problem across the android tablet. If so, the chance of it getting fixed would either depend on the Google or individual manufactures to put unexpected amount of resource into this...
What do you all think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kernels are created by the manufacturer, they're what tell the OS about the hardware and how to use it. Google makes the Operating system, not the kernel. Each kernel is different on each device because each device has different hardware.
So I'm thinking it's just a software issue. I haven't really looked into it, but I haven't heard a ton of complaints about I/O issues from One X users. I think this whole issue is just normal Android stuff that people are blowing out of proportions because it may be a little worse on this right now. I know on my Bionic when a lot of I/O operations are happening, it slows down a bit. Especially with restoring Titanium Backup files and moving big files around. I'm thinking with a little help from Asus and/or indy devs this won't be a big issue.
If you use old software, you always miss out on some features. (Office 95 won't open OpenDocument-formatted documents, AFAIK. ) That being said, it is quite common for SSDs to use a number of controllers that is suboptimal for the number of memory units. That might be a problem.
Given that I perceive the TF700 to be quite a bit snappier with the SuperCharger, I think it's quite possible the issue is in fact caused by an interaction of multiple factors: standard Android policies (not being able to clear out finished-and-not-to-be-used-anytime-soon apps, filling RAM to the brim py preference), suboptimal hardware (crippled I/O controller(s)?) and software (kernel issues).
The second component obviously is out of reach in terms of solutions.The first component could be alleviated partly -- this going head-on with the considerations for earlier and less capable Android systems -- by using a task killer, or optimizing the system (SuperCharger), and the third component could be solved by some of the unbelievably able kernel enthusiasts we have in the XDA ecosystem.
I think we might have a case on hand here for arguing that the current versions of Android are not really optimal for these high-end devices. Scaling issues are not that rare: Windows scales like crap to less capable devices, whereas all *nix systems I've worked with ran beautifully on pretty much archaic systems, and the latter don't gain as much when upgrading hardware, in my experience. From a cynical point of view, you might argue that that's because they ran REALLY well initially anyway.
The policies in force for both scenarios are necessarily different. It might be beneficial to change some of them a little bit. If Google does not institute that by its mighty self, we can at the least take matters in our own hands.
KilerG said:
Kernels are created by the manufacturer, they're what tell the OS about the hardware and how to use it. Google makes the Operating system, not the kernel. Each kernel is different on each device because each device has different hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I guess Wiki is not correct... They often amazes me how much detail there are and quite frequently right. But I guess not this time as Wiki clearly assigns each Android OS version as based on XXX Linux Kernel. But what you say actual make sense as Kernel is like interface between the OS and underlying hardware so my understanding is Kernel just simply provides set of API that meets the OS demand.
But if this is indeed the case and Kernel is the real conundrum then the chance of it being fixed may be much lower, isn't it? Because fixing kernel or upgrading kernel to newer version probably requires extensive amount of work, which I am not sure any company is willing to do when the machines are already sold.
If it was Google, perhaps they could have indeed updated kernel along with Jellybean, but that's out of picture now except of XDA members.
MartyHulskemper said:
I think we might have a case on hand here for arguing that the current versions of Android are not really optimal for these high-end devices. Scaling issues are not that rare: Windows scales like crap to less capable devices, whereas all *nix systems I've worked with ran beautifully on pretty much archaic systems, and the latter don't gain as much when upgrading hardware, in my experience. From a cynical point of view, you might argue that that's because they ran REALLY well initially anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting argument there. One hope I have here is that if Nexus 7 succeeds, developers are more willing to put apps specific for tablets. yes. they may be 7 inch... but better than 4 or 5 inch scaling to 10.1 inch. Plus Nexus 7 has very similar spec as Transformer Prime, so supporting of such device seem to make ASUS ahead of packs and in fact, (if they decide to do so) they can easily port those knowledge and resources into Transformer line.
But this IO issue may be one reason why iOS avoids true multitasking. I can never download files or load files in a application in background on my iPAD2. It basically freezes the application where left off i.e. not really multitasking. But because of it, most application won't see any issue what other application is running in background (well actually nothing is running in background..but you know what I mean).
So I am not saying, Android should take this approach but perhaps we may have to take that into consideration and appreciate true multitasking in Android. and when the task becomes large (such as IO issue here), we may simply have to understand some tasks are not for multitask friendly...
Mostly interesting questions but when it comes to nvidia and i/o problems lets blame it on the kernel drivers.
Look at around 48 min mark.
www . youtube . com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MShbP3OpASA
Do you think Asus seriously cares about its customers??
HoushaSen said:
So I guess Wiki is not correct... They often amazes me how much detail there are and quite frequently right. But I guess not this time as Wiki clearly assigns each Android OS version as based on XXX Linux Kernel. But what you say actual make sense as Kernel is like interface between the OS and underlying hardware so my understanding is Kernel just simply provides set of API that meets the OS demand.
But if this is indeed the case and Kernel is the real conundrum then the chance of it being fixed may be much lower, isn't it? Because fixing kernel or upgrading kernel to newer version probably requires extensive amount of work, which I am not sure any company is willing to do when the machines are already sold.
If it was Google, perhaps they could have indeed updated kernel along with Jellybean, but that's out of picture now except of XDA members.
Interesting argument there. One hope I have here is that if Nexus 7 succeeds, developers are more willing to put apps specific for tablets. yes. they may be 7 inch... but better than 4 or 5 inch scaling to 10.1 inch. Plus Nexus 7 has very similar spec as Transformer Prime, so supporting of such device seem to make ASUS ahead of packs and in fact, (if they decide to do so) they can easily port those knowledge and resources into Transformer line.
But this IO issue may be one reason why iOS avoids true multitasking. I can never download files or load files in a application in background on my iPAD2. It basically freezes the application where left off i.e. not really multitasking. But because of it, most application won't see any issue what other application is running in background (well actually nothing is running in background..but you know what I mean).
So I am not saying, Android should take this approach but perhaps we may have to take that into consideration and appreciate true multitasking in Android. and when the task becomes large (such as IO issue here), we may simply have to understand some tasks are not for multitask friendly...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope (and actually expect) that JB will fix a lot of these issues, as it seems to tweak lot of elements that might be in the way of Android really deploying on capable hardware. As far as the Nexus 7 goes, it probably is a really nice device, but I am too much infatuated with the HD screen and the battery/keyboard/dock I currently have to even consider going over.
And yes, maybe we just have to accept that, for the time being, real mobile multitasking (i.e., relatively limitless) may be out of reach. According to your experience with the iPad2, it may show that Apple actually did some real-life testing and came to the same conclusion. That may have been the reason for the much criticised decision to not support multitasking.
Someone mentioned on our Infinity fora here that all the flash memory used in today's tablet is the same chip, so it's not somebody in ASUS or Acer didn't want to spend an extra 10$ per device, it must be something else.
I'm still wondering why I get ca. 10MB/s write and ca. 20MB/s read on internal storage and the other way around with (micro)SD or USB storage.
I think all of us are waiting for JB right now.
Its definitely a kernel issue. If you look in the Prime forum, there's a lot of people raving about the IO performance of Motley's kernel. In the TF300 forum, there's been some mention that CM9 improves the browser performance Once we get a bootloader unlock I'd be shocked if we didnt get a better kernel, if Asus hasn't fixed it already by then.
The old kernel is caused by NVidia because in every Tegra 3 device the kernel is the same: 2.6.... Nexus 7 seems to have 3.1 kernel and hopefully all Tegra 3 devices which get JB will get updated kernel. Old kernel isn't Asus' fault. It is NVidia's fault. Google built ICS with 3.0 kernel and that is why almost all other devices except Tegra 3 devices have Linux kernel version 3.0.
attelaut said:
The old kernel is caused by NVidia because in every Tegra 3 device the kernel is the same: 2.6.... Nexus 7 seems to have 3.1 kernel and hopefully all Tegra 3 devices which get JB will get updated kernel. Old kernel isn't Asus' fault. It is NVidia's fault. Google built ICS with 3.0 kernel and that is why almost all other devices except Tegra 3 devices have Linux kernel version 3.0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait correct me if I am wrong. So you are saying, as stated in the Wiki when original Android OS is developed e.g. ICS it used Linux kernel version 3.0.x but then when ASUS or other manufactors using Tegra 3 chip only got access to Kernel 2.6 because it is what Nvida provided? So blame is actually on the Nvidia?
So how did Nexus 7 got new kernel? It uses Tegra 3, ASUS is involved... Is it google that forced NVida to upgrade to newer kernel? In any event, do Kernel usually get updated along with OS update?
One pessimistic comment though.. If we look at Andropolice benchmark Nexus 7 was included there, and their IO result was not much better than Transformer line.
HoushaSen said:
Wait correct me if I am wrong. So you are saying, as stated in the Wiki when original Android OS is developed e.g. ICS it used Linux kernel version 3.0.x but then when ASUS or other manufactors using Tegra 3 chip only got access to Kernel 2.6 because it is what Nvida provided? So blame is actually on the Nvidia?
So how did Nexus 7 got new kernel? It uses Tegra 3, ASUS is involved... Is it google that forced NVida to upgrade to newer kernel? In any event, do Kernel usually get updated along with OS update?
One pessimistic comment though.. If we look at Andropolice benchmark Nexus 7 was included there, and their IO result was not much better than Transformer line.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its entirely possible that Asus decided backporting 3.X's features to a 2.6 kernel would be easier than to do a 3.X kernel from the ground up. Its the route many devices without official ICS have taken to get their community builds and for most of those devices it works just fine.
The Nexus 7 had the advantage of being being handled by Google for software, and as such had no legacy code to be based on. The 700, on the other hand, was close enough to the Prime that Asus probably decided to use the kernel of the later as a base.
This is just speculation though.
jdefi3ebuggdsf32 said:
Mostly interesting questions but when it comes to nvidia and i/o problems lets blame it on the kernel drivers.
Look at around 48 min mark.
www . youtube . com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MShbP3OpASA
Do you think Asus seriously cares about its customers??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So NVIDIA is the issue then? I like his comment, at the end. "So NVIDIA, F*CK YOU."
Jotokun said:
Its entirely possible that Asus decided backporting 3.X's features to a 2.6 kernel would be easier than to do a 3.X kernel from the ground up. Its the route many devices without official ICS have taken to get their community builds and for most of those devices it works just fine.
The Nexus 7 had the advantage of being being handled by Google for software, and as such had no legacy code to be based on. The 700, on the other hand, was close enough to the Prime that Asus probably decided to use the kernel of the later as a base.
This is just speculation though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But reasonable speculation. I don't think you're far off with these assumptions.
Here's hoping that JB and maybe even some kernel updates and tweaks can at least alleviate the IO issues.
The kernel is a part of OS and can be updated when the OS is updated. I think the kernel is old because Nvidia hadn't lot of time to prepare the kernel to be compatible with new android. Now when nvidia have bee working with google and asus so maybe google have helped nvidia to make new kernel to work with tegra 3. If you want new kernel, find a working custom rom with new kernel and use it.
attelaut said:
The kernel is a part of OS and can be updated when the OS is updated. I think the kernel is old because Nvidia hadn't lot of time to prepare the kernel to be compatible with new android. Now when nvidia have bee working with google and asus so maybe google have helped nvidia to make new kernel to work with tegra 3. If you want new kernel, find a working custom rom with new kernel and use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well at this point, we should be waiting for the bootloader to be unlockable. Once we can load custom kernels, the tablet will zooooooooooom.
KilerG said:
Well at this point, we should be waiting for the bootloader to be unlockable. Once we can load custom kernels, the tablet will zooooooooooom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did custom ROMs solve the I/O problems with the Prime entirely? (never owned one)
d14b0ll0s said:
Did custom ROMs solve the I/O problems with the Prime entirely? (never owned one)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to this thread, it does.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1768406
Jotokun said:
According to this thread, it does.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1768406
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no it doesnt help entirely. it helps a bit but it does not solve the problems.
for instance the browser still locks up a lot, some ANR messages every now now and then.
only way to get the browser stable is by using browser2ram.
Seems it can be a hard way out of the T3 path.
Have you tried Dolphin browser on your Prime btw? (if I assume correctly that you own one) It helps a lot on the Infinity (Chrome is slightly faster than the stock browser, but is said not to support H/W acceleration, which makes it slower on content-loaded pages)
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using xda app-developers app
I am sure someone else has already noticed, but HTC One X which had one of top I/O result on Andropolice benchmark has a version with Tegra 3, which still performed well in fact often outperformed its counter part. I could not find which Kernel it uses though. But this may perhaps be one evidence goes against Tegra 3 is the actual issue, but rather something else. And also noting Nexus 7, which used Kernel 3.1 not doing that much better than transformer line also put a flag against Kernel being underlying issue. Could it really be the flash drive itself?
Now to put these in summary, I edited my opening post.
Related
I'm juggling with this idea for a little down the road but when I sit back and think about it, I have a hard time thinking of the benefits other than just for fun. What would be beneficial to you if you're considering dual boot for the tf700. This question is directed at android/ubuntu or android/win8 (if possible) users.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Xparent SkyBlue Tapatalk 2
The main benefit I see is the ability to run Linux applications that are designed for laptops/desktops. Things like full office suites, more robust browsers, photo editors etc. Would add a lot more functionality to the tablet, and also get you all the advantages that a windowed environment would provide for multitasking. You can do all that without dual boot through a chroot, but since you're sharing ram and cpu time with Android its a bit slow and tight.
Would also give you the option to try Win8 if we ever get a port, if it actually delivers on its promises (I highly doubt it) it could save some money initially over buying a tablet actually designed for the OS.
I actually don't see a point in dual booting. There are not much other applications you would be able to run on Linux or win 8 other than stock apps. This is an ARM device which is not compatible with x86/x64 apps.
monkey10120 said:
I actually don't see a point in dual booting. There are not much other applications you would be able to run on Linux or win 8 other than stock apps. This is an ARM device which is not compatible with x86/x64 apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That really only applies to Win8. Since Linux and most of its software is open source, applications can generally be compiled to run on (or existing packages found for) any CPU type so long as its physically fast enough to handle it. The only catagroy I can see lacking on the Linux side would be heavily optimimized or 3D accelerated games, which there arent very many of in the first place.
Is it theoretically possible for me to install gentoo on my tablet?
Jotokun said:
That really only applies to Win8. Since Linux and most of its software is open source, applications can generally be compiled to run on (or existing packages found for) any CPU type so long as its physically fast enough to handle it. The only catagroy I can see lacking on the Linux side would be heavily optimimized or 3D accelerated games, which there arent very many of in the first place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought some Windows 8 devices were to work on Tegra 3 devices? That could mean that over time, Windows 8 could get ported, right?
Not that I care, I -myself- prefer a touch-based OS for a touch-based device.
However, I still believe the are huge possibilities to improve browsing performances on Android.
Actually, being able to dual boot is very nice if you're into flashing different roms (flashaholic). It lets you have a stable go to rom. Then you can have that experimental rom to try out that may not all things thing functional or so forth.
I use Boot Manager on my HTC Evo 4G, which lets you have multiple roms on your phone; it runs them off your SDHC card. I have a stable Sense rom on the phone. Then I have, usually two, other roms on the SDHC card, such as CM7 and CM9.
jdeoxys said:
Is it theoretically possible for me to install gentoo on my tablet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Theoretically, it would be possible. They got Ubuntu on the Prime, so I dont see why other variants of Linux couldn't be made to work.
adelancker said:
I thought some Windows 8 devices were to work on Tegra 3 devices? That could mean that over time, Windows 8 could get ported, right?
Not that I care, I -myself- prefer a touch-based OS for a touch-based device.
However, I still believe the are huge possibilities to improve browsing performances on Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not quite... Win8 is only for x86 CPUs. WinRT will be made to run on Tegra 3 and has a chance of getting ported, but it wont run any Win8 desktop software, and is completely locked down iOS style so if you wanted to add any additional software without going through an app store (or period for the Desktop) you'll have to root/jailbreak.
lovekeiiy said:
Actually, being able to dual boot is very nice if you're into flashing different roms (flashaholic). It lets you have a stable go to rom. Then you can have that experimental rom to try out that may not all things thing functional or so forth.
I use Boot Manager on my HTC Evo 4G, which lets you have multiple roms on your phone; it runs them off your SDHC card. I have a stable Sense rom on the phone. Then I have, usually two, other roms on the SDHC card, such as CM7 and CM9.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This right here is the only reason I would ever dual boot. I love having a unstable cool new JB ROM but hate losing my daily driver ROM.
I'd love to dual boot (or emulate). Using Ubuntu/Win8 would massively enhance my productivity.
After finally being able to unlock my bootloader (for those still having trouble: I mailed asus directly about it and after the basic tips of factory reset and stuff they elevated my call and suddenly I was able to unlock.. not sure if my mails helped but was quite funny it happened the day they elevated it), I started investigating more on the capabilities of this sweet device. Now basically I wanted to do more with PDF's and well here the IO troubles are a pain So yeh.. is there a firmware team working on it? or is this something we'd have to wait for on asus?
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
Completely on Asus's side. There is nothing we can do as users without either a better unlock or using flakey hackish workarounds to reduce (tho not eliminate) the problem.
Basically, consider this: You have a car with a corvette engine in it with the transmission of, say, a Ford Model T. You just can't get the power to where its needed.
The Tegra3 chipset is kind of like that. Boatloads of horsepower but it struggles to get that power to the wheels and you get lots of ANR's. Asus needs to find a way in the kernel which is locked tighter than Fort Knox to streamline the process while keeping stability up.
If you want the best experience for pdfs then download perfect viewer and the pdf plug in from Google play and all your io issues will be gone.
Seriously try it. No other pdf viewer can compete.
djmulder said:
After finally being able to unlock my bootloader (for those still having trouble: I mailed asus directly about it and after the basic tips of factory reset and stuff they elevated my call and suddenly I was able to unlock.. not sure if my mails helped but was quite funny it happened the day they elevated it), I started investigating more on the capabilities of this sweet device. Now basically I wanted to do more with PDF's and well here the IO troubles are a pain So yeh.. is there a firmware team working on it? or is this something we'd have to wait for on asus?
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since you're unlocked I suggest you try the Zeus rom v4, just out. Very fast, makes a big difference.
pileot said:
Completely on Asus's side. There is nothing we can do as users without either a better unlock or using flakey hackish workarounds to reduce (tho not eliminate) the problem.
Basically, consider this: You have a car with a corvette engine in it with the transmission of, say, a Ford Model T. You just can't get the power to where its needed.
The Tegra3 chipset is kind of like that. Boatloads of horsepower but it struggles to get that power to the wheels and you get lots of ANR's. Asus needs to find a way in the kernel which is locked tighter than Fort Knox to streamline the process while keeping stability up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Odd, because my Tegra 3 HTC One X is significantly faster than both my TF201 and TF700. Either Asus had botched optimizing the kernel or they cheaped out on the internal memory, yet again.
okantomi said:
Since you're unlocked I suggest you try the Zeus rom v4, just out. Very fast, makes a big difference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeh it's on the planning I am already running a Zeus rom. Just noticed 4 has been released.. can't do it now tho, on 3g and my provider caps the speed after 1gig >.<
REAVER117 said:
Odd, because my Tegra 3 HTC One X is significantly faster than both my TF201 and TF700. Either Asus had botched optimizing the kernel or they cheaped out on the internal memory, yet again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well part of it is the scheduler which far as i know (i could be wrong) is in the kernel. A custom kernel def could help tho we dont have access
Another problem could be cheap memory chips for the internal storage. Chances are they went with the lowest bidder and got crap quality. Why put class 2 chips in a device that demands class 10 or higher? WTG Asus. (speculation on this one, tho it makes sense)
Also, other teg 3 devices could run faster but what other things factor into it? Smaller resolution screen = much less pixels to update. Possibly faster / greater quantity of ram. Different kernel and rom optimizations. Different power managment settings. Different clock settings. Different voltage settings (chips can be undervolted and overclocked with varying results) LOOOOTS of factors go into "why X device might go faster even with the same processor).
Picture this: A semi truck and a smart fortwo are given the exact same engine. Which will go faster? The smartcar. And yet if this were android you would still have people say "But its the same engine! why does the semi go slower?" Same principal.
pileot said:
Well part of it is the scheduler which far as i know (i could be wrong) is in the kernel. A custom kernel def could help tho we dont have access
Another problem could be cheap memory chips for the internal storage. Chances are they went with the lowest bidder and got crap quality. Why put class 2 chips in a device that demands class 10 or higher? WTG Asus. (speculation on this one, tho it makes sense)
Also, other teg 3 devices could run faster but what other things factor into it? Smaller resolution screen = much less pixels to update. Possibly faster / greater quantity of ram. Different kernel and rom optimizations. Different power managment settings. Different clock settings. Different voltage settings (chips can be undervolted and overclocked with varying results) LOOOOTS of factors go into "why X device might go faster even with the same processor).
Picture this: A semi truck and a smart fortwo are given the exact same engine. Which will go faster? The smartcar. And yet if this were android you would still have people say "But its the same engine! why does the semi go slower?" Same principal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well ok that said, (also just speculation) wouldn't "most of the IO troubles" be solved by one brave guy who posts a "how to safely break open your $700 device and replace the internal sd card" ?
My first tablet was a ****ty dropad I picked off some chinese site for $100 .. it's internal memory was in fact a ****ty 4 gig card .. I believe it was class 2 even.. so some brave guy cracked it open and wrote how to do this. So I ended up doing the same and indeed solved alot of problems.
djmulder said:
Well ok that said, (also just speculation) wouldn't "most of the IO troubles" be solved by one brave guy who posts a "how to safely break open your $700 device and replace the internal sd card" ?
My first tablet was a ****ty dropad I picked off some chinese site for $100 .. it's internal memory was in fact a ****ty 4 gig card .. I believe it was class 2 even.. so some brave guy cracked it open and wrote how to do this. So I ended up doing the same and indeed solved alot of problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would have been great if Asus chose to use an internal SD card!! Can you imagine the HACKABILITY?!?!?
Unfortunately no internal sd card in the infinity: http://guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/MHZKnMyJmRCfQwPn.large
oh well darn
tho not entirely sure what I am looking at I do recognise some chips on that pcb
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
jordanmw said:
It would have been great if Asus chose to use an internal SD card!! Can you imagine the HACKABILITY?!?!?
Unfortunately no internal sd card in the infinity: http://guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/MHZKnMyJmRCfQwPn.large
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on the ifixit site these images were taken from there are memory chips there:
Hynix H26M64002BNR e-NAND and 2x Elpida memory J4216EBBG-GNL-F
Do you know which one is the culprit often mentioned as "cheap" RAM and partly the cause for the IO issues?
djmulder said:
oh well darn
tho not entirely sure what I am looking at I do recognise some chips on that pcb
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not a developer but closely follow the xda forums on all my devices and have learned a few things (but may not use correct terminology, so bear with me). It seems that when we have kernel source code (and ASUS TF700 binaries), kernel devs can use the linaro tool chain and produce some really amazing kernels which, together with the rendering enhancements in Jelly Bean, will improve performance a great deal, across the board. The GPU can be overclocked.. there's a lot that can be done with the hardware we have...just need source code/ASUS TF700 binaries.
rambling1 said:
Based on the ifixit site these images were taken from there are memory chips there:
Hynix H26M64002BNR e-NAND and 2x Elpida memory J4216EBBG-GNL-F
Do you know which one is the culprit often mentioned as "cheap" RAM and partly the cause for the IO issues?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm ok so judging by a quick lookup it's comparable to a class 10 flash? (quick google tho, so I might be WAY off )
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
There's more information here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6073/the-google-nexus-7-review/6 including some benchmarking of the Infinity, Nexus 7 and Samsung Galaxy Nexus. It does look like Asus cheaped out on the NAND in their tablets.
I'm not so sure that the problem lies in "cheap" components. I've been digging through the kernel source and the only NANDs that keep popping up are:
00491: case 0xD5: /* Hynix H27UAG8T2A, H27UBG8U5A or H27UCG8VFA */
00492: case 0xD7: /* Hynix H27UDG8VEM, H27UCG8UDM or H27UCG8V5A */
first 3 are from Hynix's Q4 2011 Databook and second 2 from the Q2 2009 Databook (couldn't find the last one) and none of them match the one seen in the teardown http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Asus-Transformer-Infinity-TF-700-Teardown/10306/1
(Sorry, formatting got ruined so I did a quick -- insert to make it readable)
Product -- Tech -- Density -- Block Size -- Stack -- Vcc/Org -- Package -- Avail. -- Remark
H27UAG8T2A-- 4ynm-- 16Gb -- 512KB(4KB Page)-- SDP --3.3v/X8-- TSOP-- EOL
H27UBG8U5A-- 4ynm-- 32Gb -- 512KB(4KB Page)-- DDP-- 3.3v/X8-- TSOP-- EOL
H27UCG8VFA-- 4ynm 64Gb-- 512KB(4KB Page)-- QDP-- 3.3v/X8-- TSOP-- EOL
H27UDG8VEM -- 41nm-- 128Gb -- 512KB(4KB Page) -- QDP -- 3.3v/X8 -- VLGA -- Mar. 09 -- 4CE,Dual CH.
H27UCG8UDM -- 41nm -- 64Gb -- 512KB(4KB Page) -- DDP --3.3v/X8 -- VLGA -- Mar. 09 -- Dual CH.
H27UCG8V5A-- ?-- ? -- ? -- ?-- ?-- ?-- ?-- ?
I honestly think that ASUS is just kicking these things out the door as fast as possible and not putting enough time into actually working on or even attempting to co-develop drivers. They just slap in a reference driver that works and go. Even the JB source for TF300 has the exact same NANDs referenced.
After seeing this I started looking through the Prime forum and see the devs there had came to this conclusion months ago. It seems we've put to much faith into this company. Yes, they've set the bar a little higher in terms of hardware, but they apparently are unwilling or unable to make it work well
As mentioned before with proper source code developers could fix a lot. We need to push for source code.
The io performance has something to do with the synching between tegra and sqlite. It's so bad or it was on tf201 that it can't possibly be all hardware as a cause.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda app-developers app
Hi,
I want to buy TF700.
But I've read in another section of XDA forums that TF700 has speed throttling issues writing to internal storage.
Is anyone familiar with this, and if so, has issue been resolved?
Thanks.
Alan
no.
TF700 I/O Throttling Issue?
lafester said:
no.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you mean
1. No, your not familiar with it, or
2. No, it hasn't been resolved.
Thanks.
Alan
Has not been resolved. Plenty of threads on it in these forums.
There are some workarounds, as with the browser (browser2ram), plus tweaks, disabling bloat, etc. - but the I/O problem still (and will continue) to exist. It's hardware based.
TF700 I/O Throttling Issue?
John,
Thanks for your reply.
Is this issue bad enough to pass on buying the TF700?
I don't care about games. Would use it for web browsing, Office work, SKYPE video, and photo viewing and uploading.
Would I have to root to accomplish any tweaks? I'm not anxious to do that yet to a new machine, since I'm new to Android.
My other main consideration is the Galaxy Note 10.
But I liked the higher resolution and keyboard of the TF700.
Do you have any opinion?
Thanks again.
Alan
What exactly does the throttling affect? I read somewhere that ASUS cheaped out on the RAM in the Infinity. Does it affect the speed of switching program to program? I haven't noticed any extreme issues with speed. Then again, I have disabled a ton of of the bloatware and tweaked a lot of the settings to get maximum performance (on non rooted JB). I did notice that after upgrading to JB and then reformatting, things ran smoother.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T
In my experience upgrading to jelly bean has made a difference and provides a much smoother experience.
However before you do that it is worth considering rooting the Infinity (doesn't void warranty) then restoring root after the upgrade as you can tweak things so that the io is not really an issue.
Custom Roms certainly help as well.
I do feel that people on xda have become somewhat fixated with the asus io issues. In everyday use they are not really that noticeable especially after the JB upgrade.
azscharf said:
Is this issue bad enough to pass on buying the TF700?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know this sounds crap, but only you can tell.
I don't care about games. Would use it for web browsing, Office work, SKYPE video, and photo viewing and uploading.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any resource-intensive task may let the I/O issue surface. Photo viewing is OK, uploading, well... that would depend on several other factors (WiFi quality, the type of image files and their size/resolution/compression level). Web browsing is hit or miss: most do not notice a drastic impediment, but others do. Very personal. And all the same considerations apply to Skype/VOIP in general/word-processing software.
Day to day use is not that bad, however, even on stock, unless you have a 'Monday-morning model'...
Would I have to root to accomplish any tweaks? I'm not anxious to do that yet to a new machine, since I'm new to Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you would need root, definitely. Not that hard to accomplish, IF you can follow instructions to the letter. Being really new to Android, you'll either have to start somewhere, or just use what is given to you by the manufacturer.
My other main consideration is the Galaxy Note 10.
But I liked the higher resolution and keyboard of the TF700.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my opinion, if you are even considering the Note, it's not that big a difference to you. I wouldn't even consider the Note a serious contender for the same reasons you gave, but, again, that is as personal as it gets.
Do you have any opinion
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Heh, opinions. They're like sphincters, right -- (pretty much) everyone having one? It seems everyone on XDA --or on forums in general -- has some voyeuristic tendencies showing off their virtual a**holes -- don't worry, we'll voice our opinions, even if you do not like them.
Joeful said:
What exactly does the throttling affect? I read somewhere that ASUS cheaped out on the RAM in the Infinity. Does it affect the speed of switching program to program? I haven't noticed any extreme issues with speed. Then again, I have disabled a ton of of the bloatware and tweaked a lot of the settings to get maximum performance (on non rooted JB). I did notice that after upgrading to JB and then reformatting, things ran smoother.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, they used a relatively slow Hynix unit, from what I've read. Read up on the I/O issue on the load of threads that are a bit older -- we went into a relatively deep discussion there which is hard/futile/unnecessary to reproduce here. There's a lot of info and considerations mentioned in there -- take a look!
Regards,
M
Joeful said:
What exactly does the throttling affect? I read somewhere that ASUS cheaped out on the RAM in the Infinity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not about the RAM, it's the embedded MMC, which is slower than the internal storage in many other Android-based devices. The effect is visible whenever you try to load or store larger amounts of data in the internal storage - installing apps, loading pictures, downloading files, etc.
For years, PC users have suffered from slow storage until SSDs became affordable - our eMMC is even slower than a mechanical hard drive in a netbook. Software can only work around the storage slowness by caching, but this cannot fully hide the issues.
azscharf said:
Hi,
I want to buy TF700.
But I've read in another section of XDA forums that TF700 has speed throttling issues writing to internal storage.
Is anyone familiar with this, and if so, has issue been resolved?
Thanks.
Alan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely get one! Regarding the "I/O" issues - they are way overblown, to be honest. With Jelly Bean it's not much of a problem at all. There are also a few tweaks around (browser2ram, for example), that make browsing a much faster experience (along with a few other tweaks here and there).
Overall, the TF700 is an awesome tablet with a *super* awesome display and great keyboard dock. We are just now starting to realize the potential of this device and developers are starting to produce custom ROMs and kernels that will make it even that much better.
Do not let the I/O "problem" stop you from buying the device - you will see once you get it, that it's really not much of a problem at all.
After all, you can always return the device if you don't like it...
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
TF700 I/O Throttling Issue?
Thanks everyone for the valuable information.
I'm going to stick wiith my TF&00 purchase.
sbdigs wrote:
"In my experience upgrading to jelly bean has made a difference and provides a much smoother experience.
However before you do that it is worth considering rooting the Infinity (doesn't void warranty) then restoring root after the upgrade as you can tweak things so that the io is not really an issue."
Question:
Why root before upgrading to JB and restore root after upgrade?
Why not just root after upgrading to JB?
Thanks.
Alan
The method to root JB on our tablets has not been released yet - IOW, that is the only way to root a locked Infinity running JB
It sounds like you made a decision already, but just to back up a bit more.
Here is compiled I/O scores from official Antutu scores.
View attachment 1384251
I chose Antutu here because I could not readily find scores of many devices at once on other benchmarks, but I believe the result will be similar.
For instance, check http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/0...hmark-11-modern-devices-compared-in-13-tests/ Originally before update TF700 score was listed here. But with update (back in early August or late July) the RL bench score was already up to 60-90s.
So what are these proving?
Yes. I/O is slower than the that of Galaxy Note 10.1, or some android phones. But it is not unique to the Infinity. Essentially, what happening here I believe is Infinity just simply did not use top notch I/O but I don't think they cheaped out. Each manufacture decides where to put money when building a device. For example, Samsung's Galaxy Note 10.1 used 2GB RAM and nice IO but did not use Full HD screen. In a ideal world, we can always ask for more. 4GB RAM, Ivy Bridge, Retina display etc. for $500...
Conclusion is basically IO should be as good as most other android tablet out there. In fact, infinity may still be superior to some due to DDR3 RAM use. I think people made/surmised IO as major issue because transformer series had frequent ANR, and lag almost to freeze while application downloading when it was originally released (at least for TF700 and I believe similar story for TF201). Given the use of most cutting edge Tegra chip, DDR3 ram, people hypothesized IO is the bottleneck and the cause of the issue.
But now those original issues raised seemed so much better to the point I say ANR frequency is pretty identical to my iPad 2 and formerly owned Galaxy Note 10.1. System stutters slightly when installing large application sometimes, but not to the point unusable and every system has that issue. Even my desktop does get that if I do too many things at once.
I am extremely happy with this device, and currently this is the most ideal tablet on the market for me.
HoushaSen said:
I am extremely happy with this device, and currently this is the most ideal tablet on the market for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Second, especially now that it's on Jellybean.
I know the current answer is not possible with current released source code (only support for tegra 2/3). And a 2nd answer is nothing official is announced regarding any shield source code release. However I want to throw this out there as a topic of discussion.
How likely do you guys feel Linux for tegra (straight Linux not android and possibly dual boot /w android) is going to find its way to the shield and what it could mean for the shield?
For those that don't quite see the point, look into the openpandora project. While desktop experience computing is a major advantage of having straight Linux in that form factor of a handheld, arguably the greatest advantage it also offers is direct access to the HAL (hardware abstraction layer; Frame buffer etc etc) it gives a significant boost in performance in emulators and games over android even with its use of the NDK. Removes even the most minor latency in games for the most purest of experiences.
Games / emulators can be written in straight c, c++, assembly, or a plethora of different programming languages without being wrapped in java or using the multiple abstraction layers android uses and you get the full potential of your hardware.
This isn't an android hate post by any means, but more of a promotion of Linux for tegra and what it could benefit if paired with shield.
So thoughts? chances of seeing it supported? Interest? Ideas? Potential additional uses?
johnsongrantr said:
I know the current answer is not possible with current released source code (only support for tegra 2/3). And a 2nd answer is nothing official is announced regarding any shield source code release. However I want to throw this out there as a topic of discussion.
How likely do you guys feel Linux for tegra (straight Linux not android and possibly dual boot /w android) is going to find its way to the shield and what it could mean for the shield?
For those that don't quite see the point, look into the openpandora project. While desktop experience computing is a major advantage of having straight Linux in that form factor of a handheld, arguably the greatest advantage it also offers is direct access to the HAL (hardware abstraction layer; Frame buffer etc etc) it gives a significant boost in performance in emulators and games over android even with its use of the NDK. Removes even the most minor latency in games for the most purest of experiences.
Games / emulators can be written in straight c, c++, assembly, or a plethora of different programming languages without being wrapped in java or using the multiple abstraction layers android uses and you get the full potential of your hardware.
This isn't an android hate post by any means, but more of a promotion of Linux for tegra and what it could benefit if paired with shield.
So thoughts? chances of seeing it supported? Interest? Ideas? Potential additional uses?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am unaware of a L4T build, and it likely would be lacking some significant features (like touchscreen support). That said, I also disagree with the statements about being faster due to direct access to the HAL. While it is true that L4T would give you direct access to the frame buffer, what it *doesn't* give you is any GPU support. The GPU turns into nothing but a pixel pusher. All rendering must be done in software on the processor. While this isn't a big deal for older emulators on platforms which don't support native 3D, games that do support the GPU for more than pixel pushing can run faster with less latency because the system isn't as busy rendering the graphics.
agrabren said:
I am unaware of a L4T build, and it likely would be lacking some significant features (like touchscreen support). That said, I also disagree with the statements about being faster due to direct access to the HAL. While it is true that L4T would give you direct access to the frame buffer, what it *doesn't* give you is any GPU support. The GPU turns into nothing but a pixel pusher. All rendering must be done in software on the processor. While this isn't a big deal for older emulators on platforms which don't support native 3D, games that do support the GPU for more than pixel pushing can run faster with less latency because the system isn't as busy rendering the graphics.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If L4T is built for tegra 4 and not specifically for the shield, it would undoubtedly be missing quite a few device specific drivers. I'm sure it's a bit of work to port that stuff over from android source. My understanding it's not the brunt of the work such as the chipset and gpu, having full support would make things much easier I'm sure. Thanks for the info about it probably not being worked on though, it's a little disappointing, but at least I won't have my hopes on it being released in the near future. Hopefully L4T isn't a forgotten project, and one can only hope it eventually finds it's way to being officially supported on shield.
One thing that was suggested in not so many words was possibly opening up the 3d GPU driver source for tegra 4. I am speaking out of turn for sure and should probably sit patiently until something is publicly released, and base my comments off something solid rather than hearsay, but if true it would hopefully allow for the hardware acceleration rather than just a pixel pusher. I'm out of my lane in questioning it and giving a comparison, but for the openpandora they have at least some level of gpu hardware acceleration with their powervr GPU because Texas Instruments provided it. It may only be at the same level as your talking about and just taking some of the load off the CPU rather than processing complex graphics but the difference between the point in which they implemented hardware accelerated graphics and non-hardware accelerated was quite noticeable, at least on that platform. I know they don't have full GPU driver source on that platform either just compiled binaries unfortunately. I know they would have appreciated the same level of support that was suggested for tegra 4.
I wouldn't say only older emulators and 2d games would see a benefit from straight linux support. There is some newer emulators like PPSSPP that runs visually faster on linux than it does under android on the same hardware and same clock speed and kernel. Also highly optimized emulators like pcsx rearmed that runs significantly faster on linux than android (retroarch) That's just performance clock for clock on the same hardware. That also doesn't go into the audio and input lag (however insignificant) it is still detectable under android even if the program uses the NDK. Now I would accept that it's only because of the lack of the same background processes and services, but I imagine and have been told it's more than that. It is directly linked to android's use of it's HAL's
Thanks for your insight and detailed answer, it's much appreciated, hopefully it will continue, it's good to have someone who knows what they're talking about to talk to that won't just flame you or blow you off.
Raw linux on the shield would make for a damn sweet machine but most of your reasons for doing so can be done on a rooted android device anyway (with some trickery you can bypass dalvik - yes, dalvik, android is not actually java - entirely and run native code on the linux kernel, but its not easy).
Do you have any more information about that? I've seen chrooted Linux on android is that what you're talking about?
Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
resurrecting the 2nd oldest post in this catagory to show this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAvXLqPKxow
source here
https://github.com/linux-shield/kernel
Knew it would be possible, if only he had the drivers to wrap that up fully.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Knew it would be possible, if only he had the drivers to wrap that up fully.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So far I just followed his instructions on the kernel, haven't setup a rootfs yet but if you want a copy of what I got so far you can follow below. Looks like it builds just fine.
http://forum.openhandhelds.net/index.php/topic,448.0.html
I have had my TF101 for just over three years, and had an opportunity to pick up the TF300T with dock pretty cheap. I'm planning to unlock and install Kit Kat Kat Kiss (Thanks TimDuru). I have read a bit about the F2FS being better than the ext4 setup on the TF300T.
Could some of you who have used both tell me what you think. Is it worth setting the tablet up with F2FS from the get go? Will I see noticeable improvements in operation day to day? I'm not really concerned with where the benchmark scores look, but much more with the day to day feel and usage.
Thanks in advance,
Donald
Dunno about Kat Kiss, but the tablet runs awesome with OmniROM, grimlock kernel and f2fs. The main problem of this tablet is cheap memory modules with horrible i/o speeds, it really bottlenecks the performance of the device and gives you hellish lag, so transition to f2fs will make your tablet noticeably snappier. It won't be ideal and totally butter-smooth anyway because thanks asus, but waaaaaay better than without it. So yes, I really do reccomend you to switch on f2fs as soon as you get the device
Thanks for the response. Actually was thinking of running a few benchmarks starting from stock ICS to stock jellybean both with ext4. After that root and ROM and repeat with f2fs. May be a few days till I get around to it.
Benchmarks are rubbish, they won't show you the real situation with performance. Although you can test i/o speeds on ext and f2fs, they should increase.
Also, I heard that tablet runs great with stock ICS but it's a bit of a pain in the ass to flash it.
"hellish lag"? Not seeing any hellish lag running KatKiss and ext4.
Depends on what you consider to be hellish You can make your tablet work just ok but for a device with a quad-core cpu overclockable up to 1.7Ghz it should work better. I remember tablet with stock 4.2 ROM giving me almost the same interface stutter as my old HTC Wildfire S with CM10. Now go to wikipedia and check out the hardware of the phone :silly:
Anyway, cheap ass memory really is the problem and there is nothing we can do about it. Just check your read-write speeds and compare them to other devices - they are low, disbalanced, and the memory performance can significantly drop over time.
Sviborg2241 said:
Depends on what you consider to be hellish You can make your tablet work just ok but for a device with a quad-core cpu overclockable up to 1.7Ghz it should work better. I remember tablet with stock 4.2 ROM giving me almost the same interface stutter as my old HTC Wildfire S with CM10. Now go to wikipedia and check out the hardware of the phone :silly:
Anyway, cheap ass memory really is the problem and there is nothing we can do about it. Just check your read-write speeds and compare them to other devices - they are low, disbalanced, and the memory performance can significantly drop over time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think there's any issue with "cheap memory". It's the first time I've heard someone claim this for the TF300. If there is any issue, it's the fact Tegra 3 is old technology, and was never great to begin with. I have a stack of tablets home, and the closest one I have to the TF300 is the 2012 Nexus 7. The hardware is almost identical, but the TF300 easily beats in in Antutu when clocked at the same speed. The DDR3 in the TF300 is also faster than the DDR2 in the higher end TF201.
just lou said:
I don't think there's any issue with "cheap memory". It's the first time I've heard someone claim this for the TF300. If there is any issue, it's the fact Tegra 3 is old technology, and was never great to begin with. I have a stack of tablets home, and the closest one I have to the TF300 is the 2012 Nexus 7. The hardware is almost identical, but the TF300 easily beats in in Antutu when clocked at the same speed. The DDR3 in the TF300 is also faster than the DDR2 in the higher end TF201.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not about RAM, it's about internal flash memory. Google it, the problem affects transformer prime as well. Some links with more info:
http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/0...hmark-11-modern-devices-compared-in-13-tests/
http://jaredleonmorgan.blogspot.com/2013/08/upgrading-emmc-in-transformer-tf300t-to.html
http://www.transformerforums.com/fo...n/32988-tf300t-jb-4-1-1-oficial-slow-i-o.html
I'll post a comparsion between i/o speeds on N5 and tf300 a bit later
Edit: ok, take a look. Both tests were made on 4.4.4 ROMs, ART, deadline scheduler. The results without f2fs on tf300 were a bit worse back that time i was on ext4
http://i.imgur.com/OgomltN.png
http://i.imgur.com/ENQZpBY.png
Am I supposed to be surprised an N5 smokes the T300?
just lou said:
Am I supposed to be surprised an N5 smokes the T300?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, this test only measures internal storage speed, not overall performance
No kidding, The N5' s memory bandwidth is many times faster than the TF300. It still has nothing to do with "cheap ass memory".
just lou said:
No kidding, The N5' s memory bandwidth is many times faster than the TF300. It still has nothing to do with "cheap ass memory".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So maybe you should check the links I posted before, where it was tested along with other devices with more similar specs? Gosh you are a stubborn guy
I'm stubborn? lol. You're the one going out of your way to prove and an old tablet was built with "cheap ass memory".
Sent from my HTC6525LVW using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I just try to prove my point of view with an actual information and tests, not just "I think so and I'm right"
anyway it's not the point of this thread and it's up to you to be ok with your tablet
Sviborg2241 said:
I just try to prove my point of view with an actual information and tests, not just "I think so and I'm right"
anyway it's not the point of this thread and it's up to you to be ok with your tablet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What happened to, and I quote:" Benchmarks are rubbish, they won't show you the real situation with performance"? You can't pick and choose only to post them when they support your point of view. My "real situation and performance" is that I don't have the " hellish lag " you claim to have. I accept the tablet for what it is. Old hardware built with the disappointing Tegra 3 architecture.
just lou said:
What happened to, and I quote:" Benchmarks are rubbish, they won't show you the real situation with performance"? You can't pick and choose only to post them when they support your point of view. My "real situation and performance" is that I don't have the " hellish lag " you claim to have. I accept the tablet for what it is. Old hardware built with the disappointing Tegra 3 architecture.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh man sorry, about benchmarks. I meant stuff like antutu or whatever, when people tend to think that points in such apps directly show you the level of the device performance, although a rom with ~17000 points in antutu could have the same level of performance with ~12000 points rom on the same device. I tried to use the app that directly measures i/o speeds of the memory chips and nothing else and prove that the device really has the problem with it compared to other devices. Sorry for misunderstanding
I just hope that someone will find something useful about our arguing, peace! :silly:
I'm not arguing. I'm having fun,
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Interesting conversation that has come up from my question. I understand that the RAM is older and that some people have complained about the write speed. I suppose I was looking for more about how the ext4 versus F2FS perform and how people feel about it.
That being said, My TF300T was delivered yesterday while I was at work. I put a full charge on the tablet and on the dock. Once that was done I powered everything up. It was shipped with the 4.1 flavor of Jellybean, So I couldn't do any testing of the ICS as benchmarking. In looking up the ICS release specs, I found the Antutu score to be 10,271. I took the 4.2 update and ran a couple benchmarks on it before doing the fun stuff. The 4.2 score on my TF300T showed at 10,417. After that I unlocked, pushed the F2FS TWRP 2.7 to it as the recovery and then installed the KatKiss Kit Kat ROM along with the appropriate F2FS kernel and the Banks Mininal GAPPS. I ran the Antutu again after rebooting and wiping cache and Dalvik. I came up with a score of 18,512. Interestingly I had a friends TF300T at the house which is also running the KatKiss Kit Kat ROM using the ext4 formatting. Hers scored 18,677.
All of that being said, I understand the benchmarks don't tell the whole story. I know that the write speed can be an important comparison. I know that in my case the ext4 did score just slightly higher. In sitting with both tablets in front of me, the one with F2FS just felt more snappy/quicker to respond to commands. Apps when pressed at the same time seem to load a bit faster on the F2FS. I don't think it is a matter of the tablet with ext4 being more bogged down or so on. It was set up roughly a week before my new one arrived. both tablets have roughly the same apps loaded on them.
All in all so far I am very pleased with the move from the TF101 to the TF300T, and especially for the price. I know it's not the newest/latest/greatest tablet out there and I was ok with that when I made the decision to snag it. I like the quadcore processor and the additional on board storage space (my TF101 was the 16gb variety).
As I play with it more, I'll see if there are lags or other annoyances.
BTW, does anyone have the stock TF300T Asus widgets like the weather and email ones? I enjoyed having them on the TF101, though the weather never seemed to work quite right.
Thanks,
Donald
USCJustice said:
BTW, does anyone have the stock TF300T Asus widgets like the weather and email ones? I enjoyed having them on the TF101, though the weather never seemed to work quite right.
Thanks,
Donald
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can try these, but they haven't been updated in a long time and I have no idea if they'll work. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1586517
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Thanks for the link. I will give them a try.