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Who started this Lithion Ion battery conditioning.

There is no “break-in” or “conditioning” required for the Li-ion batteries. They do not need the old “fully discharge – fully charge” routine for the initial three charges as was recommended on older battery technologies. For a number of years now, the advice has been to fully drain a new rechargeble battery at least three times in a row, then do so at least once a month from then on in order to ‘condition’ it. This is designed to prevent ‘memory’ effects and to prolong the life and capacity of the rechargeable battery.
Unfortunately, it appears that this advice is not only incorrect but could be causing battery damage in that it’s reducing the shelf-life of your equipment.
Modern Li-ion batteries apparently do not suffer from memory effects. All that matters is how many recharging cycles they support. The more cycles they are put through, the less effective they become at holding a charge down the line. The caveat, however, is that you can accelerate their decline by forcing them to drain deeper and deeper.
According to Battery University, the depth-of-discharge on a Li-ion device will determine its ultimate cycle count. What this means in practice is that you should recharge your battery frequently and let it drain as little as possible in between recharges. Partial discharges are better.
As expected, high temperatures are also disastrous to the lifespan of Li-ion batteries. Interestingly, high-voltage charging has a similar effect. Higher voltages will charge the battery faster but damage it. The article suggests that user-regulated voltages for laptop batteries might be a useful way to allow the consumer to decide which is more important to them in their daily useage – faster recharge or longer life.
Always store a Li-ion battery full charged. Not doing so will reduce its lifespan and capacity.
Similarly, it would seem that keeping it connected to a power supply when it is 100% charged is not very wise either.

Thanks for posting this! I was wondering something similar after I got my Sensation. I was looking to improve my battery life and was wondering if the fact that I've let my battery discharge irregularly only a handful of times along with hardly ever leaving it off the USB laptop cable at home had anything to do with it. I'll be sure not to discharge it unnecessarily from now on.

Tacjim said:
There is no “break-in” or “conditioning” required for the Li-ion batteries. They do not need the old “fully discharge – fully charge” routine for the initial three charges as was recommended on older battery technologies. For a number of years now, the advice has been to fully drain a new rechargeble battery at least three times in a row, then do so at least once a month from then on in order to ‘condition’ it. This is designed to prevent ‘memory’ effects and to prolong the life and capacity of the rechargeable battery.
Unfortunately, it appears that this advice is not only incorrect but could be causing battery damage in that it’s reducing the shelf-life of your equipment.
Modern Li-ion batteries apparently do not suffer from memory effects. All that matters is how many recharging cycles they support. The more cycles they are put through, the less effective they become at holding a charge down the line. The caveat, however, is that you can accelerate their decline by forcing them to drain deeper and deeper.
According to Battery University, the depth-of-discharge on a Li-ion device will determine its ultimate cycle count. What this means in practice is that you should recharge your battery frequently and let it drain as little as possible in between recharges. Partial discharges are better.
As expected, high temperatures are also disastrous to the lifespan of Li-ion batteries. Interestingly, high-voltage charging has a similar effect. Higher voltages will charge the battery faster but damage it. The article suggests that user-regulated voltages for laptop batteries might be a useful way to allow the consumer to decide which is more important to them in their daily useage – faster recharge or longer life.
Always store a Li-ion battery full charged. Not doing so will reduce its lifespan and capacity.
Similarly, it would seem that keeping it connected to a power supply when it is 100% charged is not very wise either.
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I have to disagree with this to an extent, as its preferred to discharge and recharge the first times, as it freshens the cells and calibrates the phone to the battery.
But after this you should recharge it when it's at 30-40%
Also you should not leave a lithium batter fully charged when storing it, but rather have it at 60% and throw it in the refrigerator. This is what i have been doing to all mine batteries, but don't let it freeze though, this will harm the battery!

There's nothing worse than a know-it-all Uni student! If there's a real technician or scientist on the matter I would like to hear their advice.
As I am a mechanical technician I use a variety of battery powered tools all of which are Li-ion, I like to condition all my batteries but for the few that cannot be conditioned due to lack of time those particular batteries are, weaker, last less time and overall die out faster.

Flashmore said:
There's nothing worse than a know-it-all Uni student! If there's a real technician or scientist on the matter I would like to hear their advice.
As I am a mechanical technician I use a variety of battery powered tools all of which are Li-ion, I like to condition all my batteries but for the few that cannot be conditioned due to lack of time those particular batteries are, weaker, last less time and overall die out faster.
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Haha, it's not a Uni student, its batter university, a well known webpage
http://batteryuniversity.com/

Utking said:
Haha, it's not a Uni student, its batter university, a well known webpage
http://batteryuniversity.com/
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I see, so I suppose it just posted this all on its own?

Flashmore said:
I see, so I suppose it just posted this all on its own?
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No this man did: Isidor Buchmann
http://www.cadex.com/about/people.asp
http://www.myistop.com/blogs/greenbatterys/isidor-buchmann-battery
http://nutsvolts.texterity.com/nutsvolts/200612/?folio=58#pg58
I believe i can say i trust him

Are you sure? sounds more like Dracula's side kick, haha

Utking said:
I have to disagree with this to an extent, as its preferred to discharge and recharge the first times, as it freshens the cells and calibrates the phone to the battery.
But after this you should recharge it when it's at 30-40%
Also you should not leave a lithium batter fully charged when storing it, but rather have it at 60% and throw it in the refrigerator. This is what i have been doing to all mine batteries, but don't let it freeze though, this will harm the battery!
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This is exactly what I do. Last time I drained a phone down to 0% it killed the battery and wouldn't hold charge like it used to (was fine before I did it). Was on an old LG. Same thing happened to a friends phone too. From then on I try and tell everyone to never do it as well.

While I'm sure you have your sources, I have to disagree. When I got my vibrant, I didn't condition it at all, battery life was horrible. I bought a new battery (the same one), conditioned it, and it was 10000x better.
But I do agree that batteries have become much greater than they used to be about this.
Batteries are always a fun topic

This comes from rooted phones and batterystats.bin
It's recommended when you flash your new ROM that you turn off the phone. Than fully charge it. And while still charging removing batterystats.bin so your android phone knows 100% and than let it die down so it knows 0%.
I think that is where this all came from.

Flashmore said:
There's nothing worse than a know-it-all Uni student! If there's a real technician or scientist on the matter I would like to hear their advice.
As I am a mechanical technician I use a variety of battery powered tools all of which are Li-ion, I like to condition all my batteries but for the few that cannot be conditioned due to lack of time those particular batteries are, weaker, last less time and overall die out faster.
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The only thing I'm trying to do is help people from shortening the life of their batteries by listening to people who don't have a clue what they're talking about. Since you seem to spout out that "unconditioned" lithium Ion batteries are weaker, last less time and die out faster...lets see some professional resources from your "know it all" conclusion?

By no means an expert, just putting in my 2cent, i think people seem to mix the ideas of battery conditioning and recalibration. I think it IS useful to recalibrate batteries by draining the battery to 0% so the phone can recognize the accurate battery levels. However in terms of the battery, its always the same and there is no "reconditioning". the drain/recharge cycle is only useful for the PHONE for accurate recognition of battery level.

personally, i havn't bought into the conditioning aspect.. i can afford the $10-$15 it takes to replace a battery when it dies out and i always charge before it is dead (min 30%); (on the sensation so i dont lose temp root) but also because usually it would take 10 minutes or so for it to get enough juice to turn back on (in the iphones/touch's case.. but in any case i had always learnt that NiMH batteries you could drain fully and make sure to fully charge before you use them again; whereas Li-ion you could charge at 30% keep your good life and use the device at the same time pretty simple really

c19932 said:
By no means an expert, just putting in my 2cent, i think people seem to mix the ideas of battery conditioning and recalibration. I think it IS useful to recalibrate batteries by draining the battery to 0% so the phone can recognize the accurate battery levels. However in terms of the battery, its always the same and there is no "reconditioning". the drain/recharge cycle is only useful for the PHONE for accurate recognition of battery level.
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Agreed. From what I've read this hasn't anything to do with battery capacity or memory effect, it's so the phone can calibrate itself correctly to the battery inserted using the batterystats file giving a better indication of peak to zero.

Tacjim said:
The only thing I'm trying to do is help people from shortening the life of their batteries by listening to people who don't have a clue what they're talking about. Since you seem to spout out that "unconditioned" lithium Ion batteries are weaker, last less time and die out faster...lets see some professional resources from your "know it all" conclusion?
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Well you know what they say it takes one to know one!
As well as that I havent "spouted" anything (well not here anyway hehe)
My conclusion is this, dont believe everything you read, what a cliché
Seriously though I already gave my "real" practical know-it-all conclusion so unless you have somethijng to disprove it go and you know what

will fast charging will damage battery.?
I want to use fast charger for Nexus 5. Original charger gives 5.6 volts and 1.2 Ampere output.
Some post I found on xda which shows that fast charging working perfect on nexus 5,
can OP tell me that fast charging will affect battery or not? If it affects then how can I find its getting affected?
Thread which shows nexus 5 fast charging works perfectly.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/goo.../hands-best-fastest-cheapest-nexus-5-t2729066

[Q] The best way to calibrate a new akku?

Hello Guys, i bought a new mugen akku and dunno what´s the best way to calibrate it.
There are a few things that are confusing me:
1.Mugen Instructions: "Never drain battery to 0%"
(but that´s required for calibration, isn´t it?)
2.the battery got its full power after a few charges/discharges
(so would it be better to wait to calibrate the akku when it got its full power?)
So finally, should i wait with calibration or do it at the beginning? I think one time is necessary to let it go down to 0%.
So what are your advice?
thx in advance, l-viz

The way I calibrate mine is to discharge it completely so it turns off by itself (normally happens around 1 or 2%) then plug it into the charger and let it charge completely to 100%. Note that the LED will turn green at 90% .. so its not done yet!
Just my 2 coppers...
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using xda premium

You are just calibrating the battery meter on the phone, not the battery. People constantly abuse the terminology.
You don't need to drain the battery to zero, because the battery meter is not even remotely that accurate in the best of circumstances. Draining to 10 or even 20% is no different than draining to zero.
What CAN happen if you drain to zero, is you you may trip the safety circuit on the battery, and render the battery unable to take a charge, thereby rendering it useless. Its not very likely, and safeguards on the phone are designed to prevent this, but plenty of people on here have had it happen. Full power cycles (draining to zero) also shortens the long term life of the battery. Especially considering there is NO value added to draining the battery to zero, there is no point it doing so intentionally, and taking an unnecessary risk.
Just charge your battery to 100%, let it sit on the charger for a while after full, to make sure its really topped off. Then use the phone until 10-20%. Repeat this a couple times. You can also go into recovery and clear battery stats before you charge/discharge. But I haven't noticed this to make much of a difference.

redpoint73 said:
What CAN happen if you drain to zero, is you you may trip the safety circuit on the battery, and render the battery unable to take a charge, thereby rendering it useless. Its not very likely, and safeguards on the phone are designed to prevent this, but plenty of people on here have had it happen. Full power cycles (draining to zero) also shortens the long term life of the battery. Especially considering there is NO value added to draining the battery to zero, there is no point it doing so intentionally, and taking an unnecessary risk.
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Wow. I didn't know that. Thanks!
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using xda premium

Draining the battery to a literal 0% is almost impossible. Lithium ion batteries do not allow devices to utilize all the juice in a the battery. Once a device shuts off and tell you the battery is "dead", there's actually a bit more juice that is only used by the battery to prevent the battery's level from becoming too low.
Think of it like space partitions in hard drives. While you can use 100% of a single partition in a hard drive. There will still be space left over in the other partition.
Now what mugen means is to not allow the battery to reach the 0% of the ENTIRE battery. In order to make that happen you would have to discharge the battery until your device doesn't turn on and then NOT charge the battery for a very long period of time. I'm talking weeks and months of no charge whatsoever. Other than that, feel free to allow your phone to die and charge it back up. This in conjuction with deleting your battery stats file will speed up the calibration process.
Hope I helped out.
Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk

UnSungHERO420 said:
Draining the battery to a literal 0% is almost impossible. Lithium ion batteries do not allow devices to utilize all the juice in a the battery. Once a device shuts off and tell you the battery is "dead", there's actually a bit more juice that is only used by the battery to prevent the battery's level from becoming too low.
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What is supposed to happen with the failsafes on the device and what ACTUALLY happens unfortunately are not one and the same. There have been plenty of people here that have let their batteries drain to zero, and then the battery will no longer take a charge.
True, the battery is not actually zero voltage. But its low enough that the safety circuit on the battery will prevent it from accepting a charge. The phone is SUPPOSED to prevent the voltage from dipping that low, but it doesn't always work. So the only way to bring the battery back to life, is with a special battery meter with a "boost" function. Since the vast majority of us do not have access to such a thing, the battery is effectively dead, as buying one is likely cheaper and easier than getting access to such a battery meter.
As I've already mentioned, this is unlikely to happen. But its happened to at least a few people with our phone, and I've seen it happen to other XDA users with other devices. No point in playing probabilities, if it happens to you, it sucks and it doesn't matter how "almost impossible" its supposed to be. As I already discussed, the battery meters on phones are not even close to accurate enough to read single, or even 5% battery increments. So draining to zero is not any more beneficial than draining to 10%. No benefit in draining to zero, so why risk it?

I have learned the hard way that discharging lithium ion batteries below 20% is the fastest way to kill them early! (greatly shorten their life)

thanks 4 replies, a lot of useful knowledge

Prolonging battery life

One of the things I have noticed scouring the internet for tips on battery life prolongation, is that you end up with lots of contradictory advice coming from unreferenced (and often, unresearched) sources. (Note that by 'prolonging', I mean both prolonging the current battery cycle, and also, how to prolong the battery in the long term).
One big question is how you should be recharging it. For example:
Do you let the battery go down low, and then recharge it back to full?
Do you only do partial discharges, and always keep the battery topped up?
When available, is it better to work plugged in?
There are two helpful articles, both from the Battery University, which seems reliable and they have nice experimental data.
[1] Charging lithium batteries
[2] How to prolong lithium batteries
From what I gather, the answer to the above questions are as follows:
Full discharges will reduce the number of recharge cycles in your battery. For example, going to 100% discharge only gives a battery with 500 discharges, while going to 10% discharge gives a battery with 4700 discharges. Note that this advice contradicts other 'unreferenced' sources, like here:
Change your charging pattern: Most of us have the habit of charging the phone quite often even when the phone has enough battery left on it. It’s always better to leave the battery to discharge completely to say like 20% and only then recharge it. This way your battery will not only also last longer but also has longer life.
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It is better to note recharge to full
Li-ion does not need to be fully charged, as is the case with lead acid, nor is it desirable to do so. In fact, it is better not to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery. Choosing a lower voltage threshold, or eliminating the saturation charge altogether, prolongs battery life but this reduces the runtime. Since the consumer market promotes maximum runtime, these chargers go for maximum capacity rather than extended service life.
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However, I admit that this is a fairly PITA rule to implement. It would be impractical to always charge only to, say 80%. I think this rule, in practice, advises against charging all the way to 100% because then your charger may put in the topping charge (how many chargers do this?)
It is better to not leave devices plugged into wall charges.
Some portable devices sit in a charge cradle in the on position. The current drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and can distort the charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic load because it induces mini-cycles. The battery is continuously being discharged to 4.20V/cell and then charged by the device. The stress level on the battery is especially high because the cycles occur at the 4.20V/cell threshold.
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A portable device must be turned off during charge.
This allows the battery to reach the set threshold voltage unhindered, and enables terminating charge on low current. A parasitic load confuses the charger by depressing the battery voltage and preventing the current in the saturation stage to drop low. A battery may be fully charged, but the prevailing conditions prompt a continued charge. This causes undue battery stress and compromises safety.
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This, however, spawns two further questions:
What about USB charging? Because USB charging is slower (due to a lower amperage), is there any advantage to working with your tablet plugged into a USB drive? Is this better than discharging the battery?
I work with my laptop plugged in all the time. Partly, there is nothing I can do about it (Macbooks no longer allow easy removable of the battery). This means that on top of the heat degrading the battery, one must contend with the battery contunually being charged. What are the safeguards in place? I would imagine a smart charging system would lower the voltage and amperage when a laptop is plugged in.

I remember when I used a iPhone that one cycle includes partial charges and discharges like if you charge 10% and then another 20% and so on you ad those until you get 100% of a cycle, this was according to apple. That's why you can get your battery dead in one year and half (since they promises 450ish battery cycles )

Inntresting reading...
Sent from HTC Sensation, Elegancia ROM Series....

Hey, thanks for this, man. Good tips. I don't want to go abusing the batteries of all those shiny new Christmas gadgets.

Thanks very useful tips

Yes for li-ion you never want it to fully discharge.
Rift

I like the research you did here very nice. I have an EVO and that thing can't hold a charge for anything. I have like three batteries (two that come with wall chargers) just so I know I'm not going to run out of juice when I need it. I could leave everything off like mobile data, wifi, etc but then why do I have a fancy smancy phone then to begin with I want to use the damn thing. The battery is my only real issue I have with this magnificent phone. Thanks for taking the time to do some research on the subject.

Thanks for the tips. Battery is important than CPU now as for UX is concerned.

battery management
i found the battery manager from Market Place really useful for my I9000 Galaxy S on ICS

thanks for the good information

Thanks for this news

If your worried about power "cleanliness" you could always get a power conditioner to guarantee level output.
Now with batteries being able to be replaced easy enough (droid user) and with in my price point I don't give it too much thought.

Thanks for the great info, should be a big help

Glad I have insurance.... battery dies, they give me a new one!-

3G or 2G
Had someone checked, if using 2G instead of 3G giving the much better battery life?

If you are asking if you get more battery life with 2G than 3G, I think it's the same. The battery life should be less if you have the option "use 2G/3G preferred" because the phone searches simultaneously for 2G and 3G frequencies

Now that you bring that up, has anybody compared 3g to 4G battery life?

Thanks for the tips. It really does get confusing when coming to batteries.

Thank you for the advice

i agree...and have found this all true in my own studys and doings

How low do you let your battery get before you charge?

I read that a battery will last longer if you don't let it get below 40%, and full discharges are bad for the longevity. Is this true? Here is a good read on the subject. http://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

Jspeer said:
I read that a battery will last longer if you don't let it get below 40%, and full discharges are bad for the longevity. Is this true? Here is a good read on the subject. http://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
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that is true. the affect is probably minimal though(like we probably lose .7% of our battery per month if dont let it get low before charging it, instead of the typical 1% per month)
i get through half of my day with about 50% battery less, sometimes more. so i've made it a habit of charging it once i see it's around this 50% mark.

Jspeer said:
I read that a battery will last longer if you don't let it get below 40%, and full discharges are bad for the longevity. Is this true? Here is a good read on the subject. http://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
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Click to collapse
The effect is accelerated/more pronounced below 20%...
Here is the good thing though... These phone's minimum operating voltage is higher than the minimum voltage of a Li ION battery. Using standard battery life measurements, the 0% according to the phone, is about 20% of standard.

Should you do a full discharge every now and then in order to calibrate the battery? I haven't been able to find a definitive answer on this in other related threads. Some say you should, some say it's not necessary since the battery doesn't have memory cells. I have never let my battery get below 50% and everything seems to work fine but it does seem to make sense to do a full discharge from time to time so the battery knows its capacity.

Jspeer said:
Should you do a full discharge every now and then in order to calibrate the battery? I haven't been able to find a definitive answer on this in other related threads. Some say you should, some say it's not necessary since the battery doesn't have memory cells. I have never let my battery get below 50% and everything seems to work fine but it does seem to make sense to do a full discharge from time to time so the battery knows its capacity.
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Li-ON battery's do not need to be calibrated. that was only with old battery tech such as Ni-Cad or NIMH

I let mine get low all the time I use my phone a lot. Hopefully its not to expensive to replace battery since Google thinks that replacing a battery is to complicated for us tech savvy people
Justice for Kelly Thomas RIP

I don't worry about it. I charge it overnight. If I've over used it in the day and I feel it will die before bed, i'll top it up but not to protect the battery. Just to ensure I can use my phone.
If they wanted you to do anything special with charging / draining, it would be in the instructions
-----------------------
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I do NOT reply to support queries over PM. Please keep support queries to the Q&A section, so that others may benefit

markdapimp said:
Li-ON battery's do not need to be calibrated. that was only with old battery tech such as Ni-Cad or NIMH
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The battery itself does not but occasionally the controller needs a kick in the pants. Deep drains on li-ion should be avoided at all costs. The phone hasn't been out long enough to even think about the sort of problem. But after a couple hundred charges you might see a behavior that will be corrected by one full discharge.
Its not uncommon to see cases where you actually replace the cell behind a controller and the controller not picking up the change in capacity. Never in cell phones mostly laptop battery rebuilds etc but it exhibits an idea of what happens. The battery controller takes note of the original, current maximum and current charge capacity. Not sure how I suppose voltage versus read amp hours. But as a battery gets old you might start seeing the maximum capacity reading fluctuate. But if at any time the actual chemical capacity is higher than the controller thinks it is the controller will prevent the battery from reaching its potential.
Used to have older PSP batteries reach 100% real quick, quick fix was to deep discharge through the controller using a small light bulb. The battery would then take a significant charge and last a few more months before kicking the bucket.
Jspeer said:
I read that a battery will last longer if you don't let it get below 40%, and full discharges are bad for the longevity. Is this true? Here is a good read on the subject. http://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
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40% is a good number for storage, its actually better to store it at 40% than 100%. Actual use 20 to 25% is my personal range but I would say just never let it get below 15%. Lithium Ion does not mind being topped off. Deep discharged will ruin it real quick. My laptop battery lasted 3 years never letting it go below 25%, murdered a cell phone battery once a year letting it die.

I let it go to 1% and turn itself off. Then I charge it back up. But if I know I am going out in the next few hours I charge it as much as I can before I leave.

markdapimp said:
Li-ON battery's do not need to be calibrated. that was only with old battery tech such as Ni-Cad or NIMH
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lots of the fuel gauges for these types of batteries do need to be calibrated. this is not true for the N5 though(i think). I want to say i remember reading that this fuel gauge is different, like a 'smart fuel gauge' or something

kmx said:
I let it go to 1% and turn itself off. Then I charge it back up. But if I know I am going out in the next few hours I charge it as much as I can before I leave.
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You shouldn't do that almost ever. And by no means as a regular practice.

Molitro said:
You shouldn't do that almost ever. And by no means as a regular practice.
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Thats what the built in protection is for:
Marine6680 said:
The effect is accelerated/more pronounced below 20%...
Here is the good thing though... These phone's minimum operating voltage is higher than the minimum voltage of a Li ION battery. Using standard battery life measurements, the 0% according to the phone, is about 20% of standard.
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Click to collapse

Enddo said:
lots of the fuel gauges for these types of batteries do need to be calibrated. this is not true for the N5 though(i think). I want to say i remember reading that this fuel gauge is different, like a 'smart fuel gauge' or something
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Its not any different. as with older battery technologies they would loose capacity until they are calibrated 0% to 100% this is due to the chemistry of the battery
LI-ON battery's have a different chemistry which allows them to store greater capacity without loss like NI-CAD and NIMH did this is why you turn off your phone for a week and turn it on you find it still has about the same battery percentage as you turned it off before.
here's an example of a NI-CAD battery which needs to be calibrated.
You have a drill you haven't used for 3 days it was fully charged before you put it away if you take that same drill 3 days later you'd find it dead. where as LI-ON battery's would still be alive and full capacity. if you charge it from there it wouldn't be calibrated. as calibration requires you to drain the battery 2 times or more till it reaches it full capacity and charge it back up to 100% and repeat.
If you were to do that with a LI-ON battery you're basically doing nothing but wasting your charge cycles on the battery and you could kill it as LI-ON battery's DO NOT LIKE TO BE EMPTY
Because of all that NI-CAD and NIMH mess mostly all power tools you'd find in a shop such as home depot are now equipped with LI-ON battery's as they don't require calibration and can be left for months and it would still have its initial capacity prior to charging because Ni-cad battery's suffer from a memory effect and LI-ON does not, NI-CAD Requires full discharge before recharge LI-ON does not you get the point here right? LI-ON is better!
Now for those apps that claim calibrate the battery they do nothing they just Improve the reading of the software in android to get the battery percentage which is reset every time the battery charges to 100% so in short don't calibrate your battery
You can read more here http://www.diffen.com/difference/Li-ion_vs_NiCad
and watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrcbcm11830

markdapimp said:
Its not any different. as with older battery technologies they would loose capacity until they are calibrated 0% to 100% this is due to the chemistry of the battery
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The battery controller is still the source of the problem. If the batteries chemical capacity at a given moment is 1800 mah down from its original 2300 and the charge controller thinks the capacity is 500 the controller will only charge the battery to 500. Most controllers do not act like their dumber counter parts which will trickle or cut off when the cells characteristics indicate it is reaching a full charge.
The controller in these batteries while varying greatly in design all have one thing in common. They are designed for safety. The controller will actually stop accepting a charge forever if the voltage of the cell goes below a certain point. It will also never charge it above the current observed maximum capacity no matter what reality is.
You can poll a battery using vendor specific commands to get the designed, current maximum and current charge. The current maximum charge capacity is a changing value it will change over the life of the battery. This was an aging laptop battery that while the controller knew what the "Full Charge Capacity" was currently it decided not to report that to windows resulting in a hilarious 410%.
But we are talking about a problem that really won't rear its head for 1 or 2 years and were talking about doing it once or twice over the life of the battery. People doing it now and all the time WILL kill the battery very quickly for no benefit.

markdapimp said:
Its not any different. as with older battery technologies they would loose capacity until they are calibrated 0% to 100% this is due to the chemistry of the battery
LI-ON battery's have a different chemistry which allows them to store greater capacity without loss like NI-CAD and NIMH did this is why you turn off your phone for a week and turn it on you find it still has about the same battery percentage as you turned it off before.
here's an example of a NI-CAD battery which needs to be calibrated.
You have a drill you haven't used for 3 days it was fully charged before you put it away if you take that same drill 3 days later you'd find it dead. where as LI-ON battery's would still be alive and full capacity. if you charge it from there it wouldn't be calibrated. as calibration requires you to drain the battery 2 times or more till it reaches it full capacity and charge it back up to 100% and repeat.
If you were to do that with a LI-ON battery you're basically doing nothing but wasting your charge cycles on the battery and you could kill it as LI-ON battery's DO NOT LIKE TO BE EMPTY
Because of all that NI-CAD and NIMH mess mostly all power tools you'd find in a shop such as home depot are now equipped with LI-ON battery's as they don't require calibration and can be left for months and it would still have its initial capacity prior to charging because Ni-cad battery's suffer from a memory effect and LI-ON does not, NI-CAD Requires full discharge before recharge LI-ON does not you get the point here right? LI-ON is better!
Now for those apps that claim calibrate the battery they do nothing they just Improve the reading of the software in android to get the battery percentage which is reset every time the battery charges to 100% so in short don't calibrate your battery
You can read more here http://www.diffen.com/difference/Li-ion_vs_NiCad
and watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrcbcm11830
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look man
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Partial discharge on Li-ion is fine; there is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles to prolong life, other than to calibrate the fuel gauge on a smart battery once in a while.
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Click to collapse
now believe what you want

Once in a while isn't explicit. The video posted earlier says once a year or so... both of those are "a while" to me
It all depends on the controller and the software but mostly its no longer necessary.
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Molitro said:
You shouldn't do that almost ever. And by no means as a regular practice.
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Thanks for the recommendation.:angel:

rootSU said:
Thats what the built in protection is for:
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Fair enough.
But still doens't seem like a good practice given how the recommendations with this kind of tecnology are usually don't go too low and try to charge at different values, not always plug the charger at the same level.

Li Ion batteries charge to a maximum voltage before the charge stops in a phone or other device that charges while also operating.
To fully charge a Li Ion battery you need to monitor current draw of the battery as it is charging, it drops as the cell reaches saturation. This is difficult to do in an operating circuit... Though the tech may be getting better, as load sharing was not common for charging cell phones a few years ago, but it may now be, I have actually been looking for info on powered device charging, but find little beyond load sharing type.
So the battery in a phone could hold more juice if it was charged out of the device, and more still if the phones could run at the 3v minimum of Li Ion. (min voltage of arm devices is around 3.5v) Load sharing chargers can charge fully though.
Also charge rate affects battery life... slower charging is better for long lifespan. If you overnight charge, use the lowest rated charger you have, or standard USB charging. The current phones come with higher amp chargers now... It really doesn't speed up the overall charge cycle to 100% very much, but it does make charging to 80% quicker. So you can do a quick charge of a low battery to a usable level in a hurry.
Power tools use LiFe chemistry batteries which are more tolerant of abuse and misuse... at the cost of less voltage and capacity and more weight.

I work from home so it's easy for me to top off the phone as needed. I'll usually throw it on the charger for a while around 3-ish PM to make sure that I have a full charge going into the evening since I do a lot of reading on it after the kids are in bed. I'm definitely what you would call an opportunistic charger - there's no need to drain the battery all the way unless you absolutely can't get to a charger. I don't understand why people choose to run their batteries down all the way when they don't have to.

New battery health

I’m curious about battery health as reported by Accubattery (I can’t find the battery health stat in the phone itself). I’ve had the 4a 5-6 days and the health is at 97% (3048/3140). Is that normal?
I had some issues with battery drain at first, getting around 4.5 hours (a few people here pointed out it’s likely due to it not being on wifi). But I did a factory reset and it seems to be doing better (now I’m on track for ~6).
I‘ve read battery health numbers aren’t super accurate so I imagine some fluctuation is normal. Just trying to verify whether I’ve lost 3% battery life in a week. Thanks!

I bought it a month ago. Holds at 104% for 3 weeks, and recently dropped sharply to 99%. I think you shouldn't believe the program

Li's like being use in their mid range; short midrange cycles/more frequent partial charges.
High cell voltage and high temperatures cause premature wear. Accubattery is encouraging this partial charge strategy although it's not necessary accurate.
Don't charge your battery to 100% very often.
80% is better, 64-70% is best.
Don't discharge past 20%, a low limit of 30-40% is best.
Never charge if battery is below 40F.
Avoid starting a charge if battery is below 72F whenever possible.
Low temp charging can cause Li plating which will permanently degrade the cell.
Avoid charging over 100F.
75-90F is best
Fast charging causes no harm.

cool thanks. accubattery went from 97% to 98% a few days later so I don't think it's super accurate. I've never had it say 100% on this new battery though so I'm worried it's a bit low but oh well. Thanks all.

suda space said:
cool thanks. accubattery went from 97% to 98% a few days later so I don't think it's super accurate. I've never had it say 100% on this new battery though so I'm worried it's a bit low but oh well. Thanks all.
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First you need to set whatever is the actual capacity of the battery. Accubattery will use the capacity that the Android is reporting, typically 4170 for a 4300 ma battery in the Note 10+ case.
It's wrong; but Android is the culprit in this case.
Accubattery is a very useful apk. It adjustable alert when charged to X% is great. It also logs net power charging/discharging. I use it for battery temp too.
People expect too much out of it.
I doubt it's low, in fact it may well have a slightly higher than rated capacity. Take care of it and you can milk years out of it. Frequent midrange charges, and watch the heat.
If the phone battery temp when using gets into the high 90's, cool it down. I use a damp microfiber cloth or rag.
At a battery temp of 102F I screen off the device.

blackhawk said:
Li's like being use in their mid range; short midrange cycles/more frequent partial charges.
High cell voltage and high temperatures cause premature wear. Accubattery is encouraging this partial charge strategy although it's not necessary accurate.
Don't charge your battery to 100% very often.
80% is better, 64-70% is best.
Don't discharge past 20%, a low limit of 30-40% is best.
Never charge if battery is below 40F.
Avoid starting a charge if battery is below 72F whenever possible.
Low temp charging can cause Li plating which will permanently degrade the cell.
Avoid charging over 100F.
75-90F is best
Fast charging causes no harm.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Info is misleading, outdated (overlooks recent battery refinements) and originally based on much larger packs used in laptops, etc. Mobile devices discharge frequently, rarely spending significant time at high charge levels. Laptops are often tethered to a desk and charger for extended periods.
While there's nothing amiss with avoiding extremes one should not feel compelled to carry around a damp microfiber cloth (lol) to cool the phone when it reaches body temp. Yep, battery capacity may drop 10% over the life of the device by not getting panties in a knot over thermals. It's just a phone ...

DB126 said:
Info is misleading, outdated (overlooks recent battery refinements) and originally based on much larger packs used in laptops, etc. Mobile devices discharge frequently, rarely spending significant time at high charge levels. Laptops are often tethered to a desk and charger for extended periods.
While there's nothing amiss with avoiding extremes one should not feel compelled to carry around a damp microfiber cloth (lol) to cool the phone when it reaches body temp. Yep, battery capacity may drop 10% over the life of the device by not getting panties in a knot over thermals. It's just a phone ...
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Click to collapse
This has nothing to do with laptops although on my e6400 you can software disable battery charging at will.
The Li battery weakness is it's user. Any time it's taken to a full charge you are doing substantially more damage than a 64% top off. One full charge cycle vs >1/20% a full charge cycle.
That's a lot of lost life.
You'll get about 2 years out of it or less with your plan if you're a heavy user.
Rather inept management when you could get years more...

blackhawk said:
This has nothing to do with laptops although on my e6400 you can software disable battery charging at will.
The Li battery weakness is it's user. Any time it's taken to a full charge you are doing substantially more damage than a 64% top off. One full charge cycle vs >1/20% a full charge cycle.
That's a lot of lost life.
You'll get about 2 years out of it or less with your plan if you're a heavy user.
Rather inept management when you could get years more...
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We'll agree to disagree on the applicability and merits of aggressive battery management on modern mobile devices. I am quite familiar with the arguments but have no stomach to rehash the details (which matter). Best wishes, mate.

DB126 said:
We'll agree to disagree on the applicability and merits of aggressive battery management on modern mobile devices. I am quite familiar with the arguments but have no stomach to rehash the details (which matter). Best wishes, mate.
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Fair enough... the devil is in the details.
I'll see how my 10+ does. Lol I may end up tearing it down to replace the bloody charging port before the battery needs replacement
A battery replacement isn't the end of the world.
Cheers, mate.

Hi
I bought my phone 4 weeks ago . I am currently using Realme 8 pro.
In accubattery it shows i have 89% battery health. Is accubattery accurate?
It makes me concern why my battery sustaining so fast .

blackhawk said:
Fair enough... the devil is in the details.
I'll see how my 10+ does. Lol I may end up tearing it down to replace the bloody charging port before the battery needs replacement
A battery replacement isn't the end of the world.
Cheers, mate.
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Hi
I bought my phone 4 weeks ago . I am currently using Realme 8 pro.
In accubattery it shows i have 89% battery health. Is accubattery accurate?
It makes me concern why my battery sustaining so fast .

Mi Nabil said:
Hi
I bought my phone 4 weeks ago . I am currently using Realme 8 pro.
In accubattery it shows i have 89% battery health. Is accubattery accurate?
It makes me concern why my battery sustaining so fast .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really. The value it uses is from the Android OS its self which is inaccurate and constant.
In my case it is 4100 mAh.
On my original 4300 mAh battery it was off by 200 mAh, on the replacement 300. Assuming the battery was as speced. It could have even been over the speced value.
Depending on the battery temperature and the charge range Accubatter's estimate can vary by 200 even 300 mAh.
Set it so it will read 100% by entering the value Accubattery thinks it sees when the battery is fully charged. It makes it easier and less dissettling to track
In the course of the battery's life you'll probably end up reloading and losing the data but for short term monitoring it's very useful.
It's logging history is great for quickly spotting excessive battery usage or slow charging. With those considerations in mind it's a useful tool that doesn't consume very battery it's self.
After the Pro version is active I firewall* block it as it is constantly in internet contact otherwise... I don't need that. If you disable Playstore or Google play Services it will revert back to the free version unless firewall blocked I disable the former two most of the time so there's that.
That's my biggest complaint about it.
*Karma Firewall, a great freeware apk that uses almost no battery

Sir in my case it showed accurate capacity of my battery.
When charged my phone first my phone had 99% battery health.
But 4 weeks later it says something 89 percent.
I don't know about battery science. But can you tell me in short is it okay? . Or i should go to coutomer care?

Mi Nabil said:
Sir in my case it showed accurate capacity of my battery.
When charged my phone first my phone had 99% battery health.
But 4 weeks later it says something 89 percent.
I don't know about battery science. But can you tell me in short is it okay? . Or i should go to coutomer care?
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Click to collapse
Really I doubt they would accept Accubattery's data.
When your SOT drops significantly and it's not because of excessive battery usage by apk(s), then you know you have a problem.
Heavily used phones will get about 1-2 years of usable battery life. I'll probably replace mine again at the 1 year mark.
If you want it to last longer only charge to 80-90%
Don't discharge below 30%
Li's like frequently midrange charge/discharge cycles. Frequent midrange partial charges prolong their life a lot.
Never charge if below 40°F
Do not charge below 72°F, 85-95F is the optimum start charge temperature.
Do not allow battery temperature to exceed 100F when charging, cool as needed.

blackhawk said:
Really I doubt they would accept Accubattery's data.
When your SOT drops significantly and it's not because of excessive battery usage by apk(s), then you know you have a problem.
Heavily used phones will get about 1-2 years of usable battery life. I'll probably replace mine again at the 1 year mark.
If you want it to last longer only charge to 80-90%
Don't discharge below 30%
Li's like frequently midrange charge/discharge cycles. Frequent midrange partial charges prolong their life a lot.
Never charge if below 40°F
Do not charge below 72°F, 85-95F is the optimum start charge temperature.
Do not allow battery temperature to exceed 100F when charging, cool as needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One more question sir.
What is better for battery health charging 20 to 100% once or charging 20 to 80% twice in a day.

blackhawk said:
Really I doubt they would accept Accubattery's data.
When your SOT drops significantly and it's not because of excessive battery usage by apk(s), then you know you have a problem.
Heavily used phones will get about 1-2 years of usable battery life. I'll probably replace mine again at the 1 year mark.
If you want it to last longer only charge to 80-90%
Don't discharge below 30%
Li's like frequently midrange charge/discharge cycles. Frequent midrange partial charges prolong their life a lot.
Never charge if below 40°F
Do not charge below 72°F, 85-95F is the optimum start charge temperature.
Do not allow battery temperature to exceed 100F when charging, cool as needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sir can you please answer my last question?
That i have qutioned you in previous reply