Related
leaving for good
http://www.sdx-downloads.com/devs/noobnl/Odin3+v1.61andepic.pit.zip
noobnl said:
leaving for good
http://www.sdx-downloads.com/devs/noobnl/Odin3+v1.61andepic.pit.zip
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thank you much sir
Thank You! I may go ahead and sell my epic actually. Sick of reading all the drama and the peoples ignorant posts. You guys do this for fun and all others do is criticize and be disrespectful.
Thankssssssss
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Is this more reliable than the odin referenced in the "how to un-brick your phone" thread?
Man you must be kidding me,I hope your BSin,because your part of the reason I went to the Epic after the great work you did with the Moment...Dude if its true you will never know how much what you have done for the community has meant.I think people ride you so much is because your just that good,or people ride your nuts all the time like I am now,lol,no but really your are badass to me.
I really hope it's not true that you're leaving! I don't know what will happen to my phone without you here deving! It just won't be the same.
wjsmaggle said:
I really hope it's not true that you're leaving! I don't know what will happen to my phone without you here deving! It just won't be the same.
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x2 characters
noob, I hope you're not actually leaving. It saddens me to hear this, especially after I just tried out your amazing start on Cyanogen and considering how much you really helped get Epic development started.
I can't say that I'm too surprised considering how vocal the haters are. Please know this, while the trolls and all the immature kiddies maybe louder, there is a whole community of Epic owners who really appreciate what you've done and have a lot of respect for your work.
May I ask where/what you'll be heading next?
Whatever happens noob, I wish you the best.
KL4V1CL3 said:
noob, I hope you're not actually leaving. It saddens me to hear this, especially after I just tried out your amazing start on Cyanogen and considering how much you really helped get Epic development started.
I can't say that I'm too surprised considering how vocal the haters are. Please know this, while the trolls and all the immature kiddies maybe louder, there is a whole community of Epic owners who really appreciate what you've done and have a lot of respect for your work.
May I ask where/what you'll be heading next?
Whatever happens noob, I wish you the best.
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+1
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
oh, im nub and all that , whats the "epic.pit"?
NOOOooooo seriously?!
Noob you can't leave, you are literally the only real dev for the Epic!!! Please stay. I will... almost turn gay for you.
don't leave!
Sent from my Epic 4G
Did he get a new phone?
Sent from my Android using Tapatalk and Wifi/CDMA
Yup I knew this **** would happen, all the *****es that
cried, riding his ass and felt they deserved **** caused this
consider yourself privileged to have such a great dev here
and to be a part of the developing community.
This community makes **** happen when manufactures dont.
Now lets see you *****es cry when we dont have **** now
and have to wait like all the non xda'ers
this epic xda community sucks, i never saw this **** get out of control
in the htc section when i had my hero and evo
Did I miss something? What does the comment have to do with the link in OP?
sent from my RAZR
hayabusa1300cc said:
Yup I knew this **** would happen, all the *****es that
cried, riding his ass and felt they deserved **** caused this
consider yourself privileged to have such a great dev here
and to be a part of the developing community.
This community makes **** happen when manufactures dont.
Now lets see you *****es cry when we dont have **** now
and have to wait like all the non xda'ers
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Click to collapse
X2 - Noob just so you know a lot of people here appreciate your hard work. If you leave I hope its to greener pastures but don't leave on account of a few haters!
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Developers come and go, but damn this one sucks. I might even just leave Android after all this drama, but Epic is a great phone
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
decalex said:
Did I miss something? What does the comment have to do with the link in OP?
sent from my RAZR
Click to expand...
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Bump.
And, this is all deja vu, just btw.
sent from my RAZR
noobnl said:
leaving for good
http://www.sdx-downloads.com/devs/noobnl/Odin3+v1.61andepic.pit.zip
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thats too bad. not a good thing for this community
Man I gotta say that I am VERY proud to be part of the captivate community. We have alot of wonderful devs and determined people here! With CM7 and MIUI maturing to a rather stable usable state, and I9000 sourced 2.3.3 roms chugging away, things are just getting better and better here all the time :].
Ditto.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App
I love how active and changing it is. It seems like every developer here is always hard at work to perfect and update their work, something other phone communities don't seem quite so set on doing. I only wish I had enough programming experience to contribute more than downloading, enjoying and reporting the occasional bug, because the more bustling the better.
You can also support them by donating
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
+1 Awesome scene
speshow said:
You can also support them by donating
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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Broke ass college student, otherwise I would.
+1 This seems to be a very close knit community. The devs are quick to respond to changes in software, and tend to, for the most part, show an inspiring amount of patience. I am Proud to be apart of this.
Superalpaca said:
Broke ass college student, otherwise I would.
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You can help them out in the forums, if someone asks a question you know the answer to answer it, the devs really appreciate not having to micro manage the thread and while they are busy with rom updates. That is what I did to help out, I'm now a member of team phoenix because of it.
Yeah if it weren't for the overwhelming community support this phone would be utter crap. Thanks to the devs we are all here.
yeah True, I wouldnt have liked my captivate so much if it wasnt for this amazing community, thank you guys so much
I hope to contribute in future, trying to learn eclipse...
Im proud as well. I have had my cappy since launch and its so cool to see how this community has grown, and the support from the chefs is great. Im always up-talking this forum to other owners that i meet that dont know the actual ability this phone has.
Now if it only was a light sabor too....
Same boat as broke ass college student so I do what I can with answering questions too.
I got my Captivate at the beginning of the year and I still flash ROMS updates as much today as when I first got it. Its because of all the choices that we have as well as updates (still can't believe we are able to run Gingerbread) that makes this phone great.
If and when I am ready to upgrade to my next phone, looking at the XDA development for the phone is going to sway my decision.
Superalpaca said:
Broke ass college student, otherwise I would.
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Can't be that broke if you can afford a captivate and beer. Heh
I gotta say I agree, most the people here are to cool. I haven't asked alot of question because I've taken the advice I've seen many times and read read read lol. But when I have asked I got quick responses and never a hard time for asking. So now I try to answer any questions I know the answer to so I can say I contributed somehow. I'm glad I can be a part of the community
Sent from my captivate running Speed and Looks Ginger Style
I write this because I can't sleep.
No really because I feel anyone who feels the same should say so:
I am so very appreciative to all who dev for this phone. What you've done for this device is much more then bring us custom ROMs but you help anyone of us with problems we have regardless of the ROM we are running. Your awesome for staying and not quitting after 1 or 2 good ROMs ("tbalden") and you do it not for money but for us as a community.
For that I thank each of you, and can't express how greatful I am that we have so many new directions here recently.
Here is to you!!!! :beer:
Typed by ---- oh wait! I'm schizophrenic!
Yes, i second this! Thanks to all who have developed for this device, no matter how much or how little! Even if you have been rude, and condescending (you know who I mean), I am thankful for you all! I am very excited to see what you guys come up with next, and I will be donating as soon as I no longer have to choose between electricity and food!
:bump: DEVS RULE!!!!
im share the same feeling. i visit xda forum daily. just love how other people spend their time trying to help other people and just trying to make the mt4gs better!
+1 couldn't have said it better myself
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2
I wanted to start developing for this phone too, but school and other obligations got in the way. I'll leave it to tbalden and the rest of XDA and rootz
Limewirelord said:
I wanted to start developing for this phone too, but school and other obligations got in the way. I'll leave it to tbalden and the rest of XDA and rootz
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Click to collapse
There's no fun in that jk. But even if its small the users still appreciate the work you do.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2
I couldn't agree more. I have a disability, and DEPEND on my phone. T-Mobile support? Less than useful with all the problems I've run into. Thanks to the developers here, I am now able to customize my phone in the ways I need to manage my health.
Custom roms are great, but my health has improved because of the work people have put into this community. I don't think that's something people typically consider, and I'm not the only person who has benefitted in this way.
I am genuinely grateful. Thank you.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
+1 and bump and whatever else I can do! I'm in complete agreement and thank you devs. I'm about to start learning to develop apps and whatnot myself and it all started here with me and my G1!
AND the amazing group of people who turned a hobby into a benefit to everyone they could help!
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using XDA
Enjoy, everyone! This is meant to be a free-for-all of awesomeness.
estallings15 said:
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this and then the thread will get locked, but guess what? I don't care.
I have noticed that there are a lot of Dev's and others posting things here that they do for no other reason than to share. Sure a lot of people want recognition, but at the end of the day no one makes money off of this. That's what the Play Store is for.
I'm sure a lot of people would agree that it is very sad that you can't go through many release threads without somebody getting mad at someone else, and worse, getting mad at the guy/gal who spent hours making something which they then shared for FREE.
I'm not going to sit here and spew the same crap about how people should get along and all that; you have parents for that. I will simply say, "thank you" to all of the developers, modders, themers and anyone else who made an honest attempt to contribute. Before you get frustrated and down, remember that for every person who makes a fuss and angers you to the point of violence, there are at least 50 other users who appreciate your efforts. Thank you for contributing to the community.
Let the flaming commence!
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Agree 100%. People act like they deserve ROMs, themes, mods, ect. You don't. The ROM makers do this for enjoyment. I'm 14 and have a ton of work to do and of course there's school drama. I use Android to get away from all of it. It feels good. Then people reprimand us about how the ROM sucks. It is not cool. I hope this forum gets ynder control fast.
Sent from my Sense 4.0 Glacier using XDA Premium.
No flame wars and thread will stay open .
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
I know you devs, & also the ones that port the roms work hard, & do your best to provide stable roms for all to enjoy. You do it basically for free and I would hope people like me, that use them, would simply say thank you. I will be honest, & let you all know that I am currently laid off from my job, and I can barely provide for my wife & son, therefore I have not been able to donate any money to help keep yalls moral up, but I hope that in the near future I can. But at the very least, I can say thank you for all you do. I have fun reading & learning from u guys, & as far as the people that complain...I wouldn't let it bother me if I were you, because there are A LOT more satisfied people than there are complaints!
Sent from my HTC Glacier
estallings15 said:
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this and then the thread will get locked, but guess what? I don't care.
I have noticed that there are a lot of Dev's and others posting things here that they do for no other reason than to share. Sure a lot of people want recognition, but at the end of the day no one makes money off of this. That's what the Play Store is for.
I'm sure a lot of people would agree that it is very sad that you can't go through many release threads without somebody getting mad at someone else, and worse, getting mad at the guy/gal who spent hours making something which they then shared for FREE.
I'm not going to sit here and spew the same crap about how people should get along and all that; you have parents for that. I will simply say, "thank you" to all of the developers, modders, themers and anyone else who made an honest attempt to contribute. Before you get frustrated and down, remember that for every person who makes a fuss and angers you to the point of violence, there are at least 50 other users who appreciate your efforts. Thank you for contributing to the community.
Let the flaming commence!
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Click to collapse
Amen
Ahhhh! The joys of life
We all love to enjoy the work of others as if it were our own. It seems that as we use it ,we believe that it actually is ours {in my mind. Therefore to criticize is warranted and fair. [in my mind of course]. So don"t allow others to get to you. Developers do hard yet rewarding labor with mistakes , goofs, knowledge, and joys- provided that we who enjoy the fruits of their labor appreciate labor is involved and dissapointment is evident to them and us when problems arise. True joy is achieved when constructive comments lead to further development as well as real progress. If all were fired for goofs on the job all nations would be on the dole [if govts could afford it with no tax base]. Love your neighbor as yourself, especially in this case when he's working for free
trofmoc said:
We all love to enjoy the work of others as if it were our own. It seems that as we use it ,we believe that it actually is ours {in my mind. Therefore to criticize is warranted and fair. [in my mind of course]. So don"t allow others to get to you. Developers do hard yet rewarding labor with mistakes , goofs, knowledge, and joys- provided that we who enjoy the fruits of their labor appreciate labor is involved and dissapointment is evident to them and us when problems arise. True joy is achieved when constructive comments lead to further development as well as real progress. If all were fired for goofs on the job all nations would be on the dole [if govts could afford it with no tax base]. Love your neighbor as yourself, especially in this case when he's working for free
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Click to collapse
Agreed. Constructive critism should always be welcome. The key word, though, is contsructive.
Thank you for you input.
invasion2 said:
Agree 100%. People act like they deserve ROMs, themes, mods, ect. You don't. The ROM makers do this for enjoyment. I'm 14 and have a ton of work to do and of course there's school drama. I use Android to get away from all of it. It feels good. Then people reprimand us about how the ROM sucks. It is not cool. I hope this forum gets ynder control fast.
Sent from my Sense 4.0 Glacier using XDA Premium.
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YOU'RE 14???? Damn bro I respect you immensely.
Sent from my myTouch 4G using XDA
tristan6100 said:
YOU'RE 14???? Damn bro I respect you immensely.
Sent from my myTouch 4G using XDA
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Yeah not many people know that. That's why I can't get an update out immediately. Got school aand stuff anyway thank you for the respect.
Sent from my Sense 4.0 Glacier using XDA Premium.
invasion2 said:
Yeah not many people know that. That's why I can't get an update out immediately. Got school aand stuff anyway thank you for the respect.
Sent from my Sense 4.0 Glacier using XDA Premium.
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I just wonder how you do it. I tried to learn c++ not too long ago but took a break cuz its so hard. Considering Java is about the same difficulty level and that you're able to make and port roms, you got a lot of perseverance and dedication.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA
tristan6100 said:
I just wonder how you do it. I tried to learn c++ not too long ago but took a break cuz its so hard. Considering Java is about the same difficulty level and that you're able to make and port roms, you got a lot of perseverance and dedication.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA
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Click to collapse
Well thank you again listen. To get into developing for Android, you gotta read a lot and ask questions. I did that, and look where I am so I think you should keep going. PM me with questions if you want. Good luck!
Sent from my Sense 4.0 Glacier using XDA Premium.
invasion2 said:
Well thank you again listen. To get into developing for Android, you gotta read a lot and ask questions. I did that, and look where I am so I think you should keep going. PM me with questions if you want. Good luck!
Sent from my Sense 4.0 Glacier using XDA Premium.
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Click to collapse
but most importantly, before all of that, you gotta make the commitment. you can't just decide one day to develop and back down the next day. it doesn't work that way. if you're going to develop, you gotta stick with it till the very end.
True dat
Troll bump
Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk 2
invasion2 said:
Well thank you again listen. To get into developing for Android, you gotta read a lot and ask questions. I did that, and look where I am so I think you should keep going. PM me with questions if you want. Good luck!
Sent from my Sense 4.0 Glacier using XDA Premium.
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Click to collapse
I totally feel you man I'm 15 and am on the drumline. But I spend all my free time on here always learning something new. Thanks for the input and inspiration.
Sent from my Glacier using xda app-developers app
sckboy78 said:
Troll bump
Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Resurrected!
saranhai said:
but most importantly, before all of that, you gotta make the commitment. you can't just decide one day to develop and back down the next day. it doesn't work that way. if you're going to develop, you gotta stick with it till the very end.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh im on that boat right now, it is difficult to begin into this whole development thing, i've been doing a lot of reading, coding samples on piece of paper, researching the forums for question that im sure were asked but most importantly as Saranhai said is the commitment, im down 100% to learn on my free time not only that but i do try, i really try hard to make this whole thing pay, i can modify apks, i already started creating themes for the theme engine in CM, my next step is theming a whole rom then after that i will learn how to compile from source, port and ultimately my goal is on the launcher, i would love to come up with a different UI as everyone else does at one point.
Sometimes people does not recognize the time you invest as a developer, i don't consider myself a developer as i do fairly basic things, probably my big mistake so far is not asking for help mainly because im afraid of rejection, i asked for help in the past (not on XDA but on another forum) and the dev just got his enjoyment to call me noob, rookie or every single word that is out there to just call me a novice after that i just decided to do not ask any questions and just learn by myself, yeah i have questions about many things and probably is better when someone with experience tells you what to do in case of errors but nothing like your own sacrifice.
i really hope this community gets better, as in any forum you will find people that is down to criticize your work in a good way so you can improve and then there are the a**holes who think you have to fix whatever error they have just because you have to.......Me? if you want an honest and constructive criticism i will tell you what's wrong and probably i wont tell you how to fix it as im fairly new into android development but i can do that, i can try your work and tell you whats wrong with it.
NeuroticallyYou said:
oh im on that boat right now, it is difficult to begin into this whole development thing, i've been doing a lot of reading, coding samples on piece of paper, researching the forums for question that im sure were asked but most importantly as Saranhai said is the commitment, im down 100% to learn on my free time not only that but i do try, i really try hard to make this whole thing pay, i can modify apks, i already started creating themes for the theme engine in CM, my next step is theming a whole rom then after that i will learn how to compile from source, port and ultimately my goal is on the launcher, i would love to come up with a different UI as everyone else does at one point.
Sometimes people does not recognize the time you invest as a developer, i don't consider myself a developer as i do fairly basic things, probably my big mistake so far is not asking for help mainly because im afraid of rejection, i asked for help in the past (not on XDA but on another forum) and the dev just got his enjoyment to call me noob, rookie or every single word that is out there to just call me a novice after that i just decided to do not ask any questions and just learn by myself, yeah i have questions about many things and probably is better when someone with experience tells you what to do in case of errors but nothing like your own sacrifice.
i really hope this community gets better, as in any forum you will find people that is down to criticize your work in a good way so you can improve and then there are the a**holes who think you have to fix whatever error they have just because you have to.......Me? if you want an honest and constructive criticism i will tell you what's wrong and probably i wont tell you how to fix it as im fairly new into android development but i can do that, i can try your work and tell you whats wrong with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow. Well, people are a little nicer around here, and you can always PM someone. But, like you said, if you learn on your own it's even better.
I hate when I take a dump and there's no toilet paper...just saying.
Teach yourself and get advice is the best way.
Sent from my MyTouch 4g using Tapatalk 2
sckboy78 said:
I hate when I take a dump and there's no toilet paper...just saying.
Sent from my MyTouch 4g using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
I did that the other day. My wife keeps the extra rolls in the hallway, so I had to do the ****e shuffle out to the hallway cabinet. Suuuucks.
Hi everyone,
I was shocked when I saw all of $droyd$'s threads renamed and closed. I have tried searching but could only get a very general and vague idea of why he left. Does anyone know which post(s) contributed to this?
Really sad to see such a good developer leaving our forums because of a few ungrateful people
Thanks
would know this too :crying:
If you look in said threads you would see why.
Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2
AW: $droyd$ leaving?
He is leaving because we got some ****ing unthankful kids in here that just can't show respect. This is destroying our nice community! I think everybody who is not able to play around with the device itself to sort problems out should be leaving xda right now. This board is not made for people that are not willing to learn and work. No problem with noobs, everybody starts small, but that "let-others-google-it-for-me" mentality just sucks. Sorry dudes.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
slainbybeats said:
No problem with noobs, everybody starts small, but that "let-others-google-it-for-me" mentality just sucks. Sorry dudes.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agreed
slainbybeats said:
He is leaving because we got some ****ing unthankful kids in here that just can't show respect. This is destroying our nice community! I think everybody who is not able to play around with the device itself to sort problems out should be leaving xda right now. This board is not made for people that are not willing to learn and work. No problem with noobs, everybody starts small, but that "let-others-google-it-for-me" mentality just sucks. Sorry dudes.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right dude but acting like a stubborn child is the right way?
Pay to Post?
Maybe it should be pay to post in the developer section? I don't mean every time, but you have to of made a minimum donations to gain access. That way you get people who truly want to contribute and want to see the developers succeed. It will weed out all the question askers and complainers. We already have General, Q&A, and a Help threads to solve all their problems, they don't need to take it to the dev. I only think this should be used to restrict posting, not reading. This money could be pooled and distributed to "Recognized Developers."
I've never used any of his works, but honestly if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I totally agree that everyone should be more respectful and thankful for the time and effort put in by the devs. However, as a dev, you must be willing/able to accept criticism and realize you will never design/build anything that will satisfy everyone. Yes, there are many users on XDA who are childish and ungrateful for what they are given... but it is just as childish to not only abandon your work, but fully remove it from the larger community.
xda is full of maggots(noobs). i will do the same some time soon! some guys here are nice, some others are here for troll the threads, others to ask to much. the respect for kangers and developers here in xda is lost!.
development from my works is stoped untill these maggots learn some respect and be thankfull!.
Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2
WCCobra said:
I've never used any of his works, but honestly if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I totally agree that everyone should be more respectful and thankful for the time and effort put in by the devs. However, as a dev, you must be willing/able to accept criticism and realize you will never design/build anything that will satisfy everyone. Yes, there are many users on XDA who are childish and ungrateful for what they are given... but it is just as childish to not only abandon your work, but fully remove it from the larger community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to say that I agree with you.
The devs are often treated like they are gods, which they are clearly not. They should be respected for their work, of course, and I feel like everyone should donate a lot more money (what are 5 bucks for an awesome rom every once in a while?!), but the attitude of some devs, or rather those people trying to "protect" the devs are, in my opinion, even worse then the childish users here on xda.
Yep a few idiots ruining it for everyone. Sad to see this as this was a great dev and will be missed.
Sent from my One S using XDA Premium HD app
Hmm, his reaction is questionable. I can understand that he is p****d off by some users. But for that problem he has got "Add to ignore list". Why didn't he use that?
Look at the **** other devs get this is a common problem on xda I thought droyd had it good compared to other devices. Hell task a popular dev here has to lock his thread each day.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
Used $droyd$'s ROM's and he was always helpful and obviously put a LOT of time and effort in.
But the fact is that you'll always have some whiners and people who expect things(get needy) they shouldn't, and if you can't cope with that then this is bound to happen.
It's a shame it happened, I respect $droyd$'s decision, but he could and should have just ignored the whiners here...and concentrate on the 99% of users here that ARE grateful.
AW: $droyd$ leaving?
Sorry but who the hell acted like a stubborn kid? Don't get what you are referring to...
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
Leaving XDA because some users are rude/stupid is like leaving a pool because you didn't want to get wet. I've been hanging around here for many years and, while there are certainly more of them due to android's popularity, the level of trolls has always been high. I didn't even know there was an "ignore" function...I've just developed a mental "ignore" to be able to tolerate the thread bloat.
If you're making ROMs for other's approval, you are going to be disappointed...if you make them for yourself and share them with others, then [email protected] the trolls and enjoy your hard work.
el_smurfo said:
Leaving XDA because some users are rude/stupid is like leaving a pool because you didn't want to get wet. I've been hanging around here for many years and, while there are certainly more of them due to android's popularity, the level of trolls has always been high. I didn't even know there was an "ignore" function...I've just developed a mental "ignore" to be able to tolerate the thread bloat.
If you're making ROMs for other's approval, you are going to be disappointed...if you make them for yourself and share them with others, then [email protected] the trolls and enjoy your hard work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a kind of point I made in the other thread: Functional critics are good, you can even learn with then to make your roms better. Trolls must be reported. Simple.
el_smurfo said:
Leaving XDA because some users are rude/stupid is like leaving a pool because you didn't want to get wet. I've been hanging around here for many years and, while there are certainly more of them due to android's popularity, the level of trolls has always been high. I didn't even know there was an "ignore" function...I've just developed a mental "ignore" to be able to tolerate the thread bloat.
If you're making ROMs for other's approval, you are going to be disappointed...if you make them for yourself and share them with others, then [email protected] the trolls and enjoy your hard work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not that they make them for other peoples approval either. Its just hard and a thank you from time to time makes it easier. The people who treat the devs like crap make them not wanna do it anymore plain and simple. They are people too and they need that validation for working so hard and I don't blame them.
Sent from my One S using Tapatalk 2
OK, opinions are exchanged, all that should be said is said (even more than that). Before this gets out of hands, I close this thread.