Related
Im new to the android community and phones. I bought an Inspire with gingerbread (2.3.3) and would like to add cyanogenmod to it but the tutorials look so "harmfull" they scare me away so i have some question.
Can i downgrade from 2.3 to android v1?
Have anyone here rooted and flashed the same phone I have?
What is "radio? Can I change it to another one? how can I tell if it will work with my carrier?
please, please, please. READ
these questions you are asking concern me
1. you dont downgrade to v1....because it doesnt exist
2. we all have the same phone as you, otherwise we wouldnt have an inspire section
3. there is an entire thread dedicated to this very subject....look in the dev section.
there are easy to follow guides, tutorials, and walkthroughs here, but you have to READ...there is ZERO excuse for not reading and comprehending this stuff. if it is too much for you, you should NOT be doing any of it, and leave your phone stock
This is why I said..im NEW with this... none of what you helped in some way.
joandajer said:
This is why I said..im NEW with this... none of what you helped in some way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
then you have some READING to do. nobody here is going to hold your hand.
ALL the information you seek is already here, but you have to READ
Sorry if all you want is someone to hold your hand and spoonfeed information to you
NEW or not, it doesnt matter. I was NEW to this phone when i got it. I READ, the same way i have done with all my other phones. I READ to understand what i am doing and how to do it.
heres the first thing you should have read when you came to the inspire boards:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1033353
its a sticky for a reason
Thanks for the link. Wil this tool The Ace Hack Kit work with 2.3.3 version? for rooting pourposes i mean?
joandajer said:
Thanks for the link. Wil this tool The Ace Hack Kit work with 2.3.3 version? for rooting pourposes i mean?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from the OP in the ACE Hack Kit thread:
Both stock Froyo and Gingerbread supported
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this question has come up several times in the last month. yes it works just fine
Hi, i just rotted the unit and everything was fine
So i decided to use, cyanogenmod, it installed
now i can make calls but it does not connect to the data network portion.
Any ideas?
I noticed the radio baseband is slighly different than the original. could it be?
Sorry. was quick. i entered the APN settings and it is now connecting.. just Edge....before (stock rom) i had "H" (guessing is 3G). Now it only connects to E (edge i assume).
The weird thing is that before whenever i was in an area with only edge It would not allow me to browse but now I can.
any idea jedi master?
you can try a different radio. look at the radio thread in the dev section
Sorry to bother you so much. I was able to solve the radio issue. Now, since the market app wasn't included i followed the guide on how to install gapps but after doing so i can't get pass the boot screen "touch the android to begin".
I try to wipe and reflash but still does not let me do it. Any ideas?
did you touch the android to begin?
Yes, sir. But it will still restart.
i try to wipe data and restart the process but same thing happens.
Tried taping the four corners and an still happening.
Someone said the the gapps file might be corrupted.
Right now cyanogenmod is a pain. is there a way to install another room or the stock one through recovery?
Thanks for all your help!
joandajer said:
Yes, sir. But it will still restart.
i try to wipe data and restart the process but same thing happens.
Tried taping the four corners and an still happening.
Someone said the the gapps file might be corrupted.
Right now cyanogenmod is a pain. is there a way to install another room or the stock one through recovery?
Thanks for all your help!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can install any rom you like in recovery.
boot into recovery
go to mounts and storage
mount usb storage
on your computer, copy the rom zip onto the phone
back,
install zip file from sdcard
browse to rom zip
confirm flash
Thank you. I am downloading RUU_Ace_Gingerbread_S_Cingular_US_2.47.502.7_Radio_12.56.60.25_26.10.04.03_M_release_200368_signed.exe.... is this the correct stock?
Does it have to be on ZIP? if so, where can i find stock roms?
joandajer said:
Thank you. I am downloading RUU_Ace_Gingerbread_S_Cingular_US_2.47.502.7_Radio_12.56.60.25_26.10.04.03_M_release_200368_signed.exe.... is this the correct stock?
Does it have to be on ZIP? if so, where can i find stock roms?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no. this will leave you an unrooted stock rom
why dont you browse the dev forum here and look at all the ROM offerings?
I think i will just go with the stock one and the do the same procedure (using the hack kit and just leave it stock rooted....
would that be ok?
joandajer said:
I think i will just go with the stock one and the do the same procedure (using the hack kit and just leave it stock rooted....
would that be ok?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No because you'll still have s-off just flash pirateghost's rom its similar to stock rooted and is always good
Sent from my Inspire 4G using XDA App
Nick281051 said:
No because you'll still have s-off just flash pirateghost's rom its similar to stock rooted and is always good
Sent from my Inspire 4G using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gene Poole has a very nice stock sense 3.0 rom. its very stock. mine is slightly 'themed' with some added tweaks
Thanks I will try RUU and if that does not work will download the latest one he has: PD98IMG_Ace_Cingular_US_1.84.502.11_Radio_12.39a.60.19_26.06.06.30_M_release_184324_signed.zip
joandajer said:
Thanks I will try RUU and if that does not work will download the latest one he has: PD98IMG_Ace_Cingular_US_1.84.502.11_Radio_12.39a.60.19_26.06.06.30_M_release_184324_signed.zip
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats not the latest rom.
are you scared of the dev forums? lol
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1018
So i got this Galaxy S 4G. and i rooted it with super one click.
But when i got Rom manager and put CWM on it didnt work. (i gave up)
now i wanna get Gingerbread 2.3
should i use Kies mini to update?
or is there another way i should update?
Also i want to get CWM so i can flash roms.
i know i need Odin but
do i need to be in DL mode. to root gingerbread?
also i wanna make sure i get CWM FORSURE!!!!
can anyone help me
BTW ive updated to Gingerbread before. but i couldnt figure out how to root is so i downgraded back to froyo.
on gingerbread i couldnt get my phone into Debugging Mode. (the bug wouldnt show on my status bar)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1122508
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1305560
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1117554
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=979109
LAWLKiPz said:
So i got this Galaxy S 4G. and i rooted it with super one click.
But when i got Rom manager and put CWM on it didnt work. (i gave up)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is this rom manager you speak of? I've never heard of a working rom manager for this device. Does rom manager work? Perhaps the answer is posted here somewhere?
Exodian said:
What is this rom manager you speak of? I've never heard of a working rom manager for this device. Does rom manager work? Perhaps the answer is posted here somewhere?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. Not yet.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1305560
For GB, just flash (oden/heimdall/heimdall one-click) any gb kernel in the dev forum and you should get CWM (unless the kernel is a fully stock kernel, like the first one in my one-click collection).
A little lecture could help you. This has been answered like 100 times a day.
Use latestodin, flash ravers kj6 odin rom (yes, you have to be in dl mode and rom file goes in pda and i think you need to decompress the .zip file so u use the .tar) and after that just flash drhonk kj1 kernel so you can get root and cwm. Then you can flash gb roms without problem.
Theres a big post saying that Rom Manaher doesnt work wotj raver.
actualy rom manager has a Galaxy s 4G setting now so yes it does work
Exodian said:
What is this rom manager you speak of? I've never heard of a working rom manager for this device. Does rom manager work? Perhaps the answer is posted here somewhere?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually when i got Rom Manager i had a setting for Galaxy S 4G so im guessing the answer is yes.
LAWLKiPz said:
Actually when i got Rom Manager i had a setting for Galaxy S 4G so im guessing the answer is yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. "NO" means "no".
If you don't believe me. Go ahead. Flash it, then wonder why you can't flash anything from it or do anything with it.
Everyone who has told you that it doesn't work is trying to save you time and headache.
---------- Post added at 03:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:01 PM ----------
bhundven said:
No. "NO" means "no".
If you don't believe me. Go ahead. Flash it, then wonder why you can't flash anything from it or do anything with it.
Everyone who has told you that it doesn't work is trying to save you time and headache.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also, tehgyb gave you all the good links (thanks man!)
Instead of insisting on using rom mangler, you should listen and read.
If all you want is clockwork mod + root + gb, just heimdall one-click my kj6 kernel and stock rom... The link that says: Download SMS KJ6 Kernel Stock Rom with Bootloaders
After you run that, you can flash roms with CWM (not rom manager) as you wish, and you will always have root with that kernel.
It doesnt work man..
Sent from my SGH-T959V using xda premium
coldcrush390 said:
It doesnt work man..
Sent from my SGH-T959V using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was very informative!</sarcasm>
What doesn't work?
How were you flashing?
Did you see any errors?
Did you read the OP?
bhundven said:
That was very informative!</sarcasm>
What doesn't work?
How were you flashing?
Did you see any errors?
Did you read the OP?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think he meant that ROM Manager doesn't work.
I don't get why people don't read stickies around here. I guess it's second nature if you've been on other forums before, but it's still no excuse. -.-
bkoon1218 said:
I think he meant that ROM Manager doesn't work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Crap. I just realized that I was mixing threads. Good catch
bkoon1218 said:
I don't get why people don't read stickies around here. I guess it's second nature if you've been on other forums before, but it's still no excuse. -.-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, I know how you feel: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=20153370&postcount=9
I have now rooted my rogers SG S2 LTE with super one click 2.2, now what? where can get some roms.....?
Gingerbread 2.3.5
Baseband: I727RUXKJ7
Kernel: 2.6.35.11
This is my first android phone, so, please point me to right direction. Thanks in advance.
ROMs can be found in the Development section...
You can use this guide to start off... also found in the Development.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1383464
jugajatt said:
I have now rooted my rogers SG S2 LTE with super one click 2.2, now what? where can get some roms.....?
Gingerbread 2.3.5
Baseband: I727RUXKJ7
Kernel: 2.6.35.11
This is my first android phone, so, please point me to right direction. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After rooting... you can change pretty much the whole OS by flashing custom ROMs found in the thread mentioned above, or you can just make small changes by installing MODs that changes certain things like battery, etc. To install some MODs you will need to flash the respective Kernels as well. However as a beginner I would recommend just flashing custom ROMs.
As of now, I've tried Skyrocketeer, QuickWiz, and Sky Ice Cream Sandwich and they all are usable with minor bugs here and there that may or may not affect you.
Good luck!
Thank you so much cue_32 and pativets. Now time to play around with some roms...
when flashing, can i do it without microsd? I know if i have .tar file i can odin, how the heck do i zip files?
jugajatt said:
Thank you so much cue_32 and pativets. Now time to play around with some roms...
when flashing, can i do it without microsd? I know if i have .tar file i can odin, how the heck do i zip files?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First you need to flash Clockworkmod Recovery. Then you place the zip on your SDcard, do a Nandroid backup through clockworkmod Recovery (not necessary but highly, highly recommended... especially if you have never done this before.) Then select install zip from SD card, find the .Zip file and run it and you should be golden.
reubendevries said:
First you need to flash Clockworkmod Recovery. Then you place the zip on your SDcard, do a Nandroid backup through clockworkmod Recovery (not necessary but highly, highly recommended... especially if you have never done this before.) Then select install zip from SD card, find the .Zip file and run it and you should be golden.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks reubendevries, makes sense now. Again thanks all for your great helpful tips.
Hey one other thing, try not to flash through Odin. Samsung has a counter for custom rom flashing and they will void your warranty. The best way to get clockworkmod recovery is buy paying through Rom Manager Premium. Sure it 5.00 bux but thats a worth it compared to voiding your warranty. It also will make sure you install the correct clockworkmod recovery.
reubendevries said:
Hey one other thing, try not to flash through Odin. Samsung has a counter for custom rom flashing and they will void your warranty. The best way to get clockworkmod recovery is buy paying through Rom Manager Premium. Sure it 5.00 bux but thats a worth it compared to voiding your warranty. It also will make sure you install the correct clockworkmod recovery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks, when installing clockworkmod what do i choose? tmobile SG S2?
That is exactly what you want to do.
When i try to flash CWM from Rom Manager, i727r is not listed...the closest thing is Samsung Galaxy S2 GT-i9000...can I install that version of CWM on my i727r?
Thank you in advanced!!!
Use the link below to setup recovery:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1566613
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using XDA
cc101 said:
When i try to flash CWM from Rom Manager, i727r is not listed...the closest thing is Samsung Galaxy S2 GT-i9000...can I install that version of CWM on my i727r?
Thank you in advanced!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NEVER INSTAL ANYTHING FROM I9100...just flash cwm through Odin look for tutorial on YouTube
Also look up darkside super wipe
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium
Thanks you guys, always so helpful.
marclabrosse said:
Use the link below to setup recovery:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1566613
but yes I believe you pick the S2 from the list in ROM manager, but the link above is best.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You no talkie no Moe you gonna brick noobs phones
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk
marclabrosse said:
Use the link below to setup recovery:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1566613
but yes I believe you pick the S2 from the list in ROM manager, but the link above is best.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please don't give out info like this, it's totally wrong and will brick someone
He's a sys admin, but his avatar is sticking out a tongue, my judgement could go either way, helping? Or purposely hurting...
icenight89 said:
He's a sys admin, but his avatar is sticking out a tongue, my judgement could go either way, helping? Or purposely hurting...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please god I want him nowhere near my equipment
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk
I was trying to teach him that the best way to learn is through first failling, no? Nono just kidding and sorry for posting nonsense I edited the post, but I can't promise it wont happen again
I used Odin with the instructions and TAR file provided in the link I posted above before going to ICS.
When I was on GB and flashed recovery via ROM Manager I guess I picked the TMobile version, its been a while... I'll keep my "guess's" to myself, OK?
icenight89 said:
He's a sys admin, but his avatar is sticking out a tongue, my judgement could go either way, helping? Or purposely hurting...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, maybe he's a "system administrator".... administrating a business that refurbishes Bricked Phones.
Sent From my Two Tin Cans & String Device on The Wookie Network
shaggyskunk said:
Yeah, maybe he's a "system administrator".... administrating a business that refurbishes Bricked Phones.
Sent From my Two Tin Cans & String Device on The Wookie Network
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nailed it!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using XDA
Is this the JB modem or something else? I'm not sure if should i install it with the jelly bean leak.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Seems like it. I flashed the one from invisiblek's modem thread with the filename VRLI5.modem.zip and it's working fine for me.
EDIT: Never mind, that's not the modem. According to this post it seems to be related to power management. I never flashed it, unless it was included with the modem zip.
SilentDude56k said:
Seems like it. I flashed the one from invisiblek's modem thread with the filename VRLI5.modem.zip and it's working fine for me.
EDIT: Never mind, that's not the modem. According to this post it seems to be related to power management. I never flashed it, unless it was included with the modem zip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is the flashable VRL15 modem... Now can someone make this Odin flashable??
http://rootzwiki.com/topic/34053-of...zon-sgs3-sch-i535-odin-or-recovery-flashable/
edthesped said:
Is this the JB modem or something else? I'm not sure if should i install it with the jelly bean leak.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YEs it is . use the link that i posted to take you to rootzwiki and download it there.
what is this talk of .RPM on touchwiz jellybean? i have searched and found little info... sorry op not trying to hijack your thread!
Here's a couple posts I found earlier today about rpm:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=33187381&postcount=4155
and this latter one is more descriptive about what changes with OTA's and apparently only the rpm is of consequence...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=32538851&postcount=3532
and finalement, here's a post with the JB leak's rpm:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=33557322&postcount=260
Now I still don't know what this does other than exist.
yea im trying to figure out its purpose and if i need to add it too my guide. thx for those links!
droidstyle said:
yea im trying to figure out its purpose and if i need to add it too my guide. thx for those links!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm still new to Samsung, so someone correct me if I'm way off-base, but the gist I got was that when a new rom (or leak) comes from verizon, it includes rom+kernel+rpm+modem... which on an HTC device we called rom+kernel+firmware+radio. So my understanding is that if you just flash the new radios without the new firmware that matches up with what your dev used as a base, there could be compatibility issues.
(Much more knowledgeable people discussed this in the Cleanrom thread as in those links above).
i understand all of that...just trying to figure out what exactly is rpm. thx !
droidstyle said:
i understand all of that...just trying to figure out what exactly is rpm. thx !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 I don't like to blindly flash...
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
In simple terms if I understand correctly it installs files that you don't get in flashing a ROM. Gives you an option if you don't want to go back to stock via Odin and OTA back up to current version.
sfobrien said:
In simple terms if I understand correctly it installs files that you don't get in flashing a ROM. Gives you an option if you don't want to go back to stock via Odin and OTA back up to current version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i understand that...lol
whats its purpose in android is my question?
droidstyle said:
i understand that...lol
whats its purpose in android is my question?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RIL files and Power Managment files to coincide with ROM and Modem version to avoid possible conflicts and issues?
sfobrien said:
RIL files and Power Managment files to coincide with ROM and Modem version to avoid possible conflicts and issues?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ahh ok now were getting somewhere! thx!!
So does an odin back to stock undo whatever this file does or does another rpm file need to be flashed to undo it?
edthesped said:
So does an odin back to stock undo whatever this file does or does another rpm file need to be flashed to undo it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you Odin to a prior version of stock, it should be included in the zip which simultaneously changes the modem. The reason an rpm is being discussed is because when flashing custom roms and modems, this isn't updated. Think of an Odin flash of older images as "reversing an update," all those same files are added when you accept an OTA, so they'll be changed if you Odin an older stock image.
If I'm wrong, I'll gladly redact my comment but that's what I understand from this discussion.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
SlimSnoopOS said:
If you Odin to a prior version of stock, it should be included in the zip which simultaneously changes the modem. The reason an rpm is being discussed is because when flashing custom roms and modems, this isn't updated. Think of an Odin flash of older images as "reversing an update," all those same files are added when you accept an OTA, so they'll be changed if you Odin an older stock image.
If I'm wrong, I'll gladly redact my comment but that's what I understand from this discussion.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, it's starting to make more sense to me. I'm not unfamiliar with root but typically only do so to eliminate bloat, otherwise I'm happy with stock builds. The JB leak changed things a little so I want to get a better handle on what I'm installing and why.
stable
Why can't this just be simple.....I just want a good stable everything and then leave it alone.....Will that ever happen?
masonjb said:
Why can't this just be simple.....I just want a good stable everything and then leave it alone.....Will that ever happen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
flash back to stock and leave your device alone...pretty simple.
So if we revert to a ROM backup, do we need to manually turn back the rpm as well, like we do with the modem? Sounds like we need vrali5 for jb leak. I will play around with jb for awhile though go back to ICS for everyday stability use, until I find a jb I like. Do I need to revert the rpm when I restore ICS? Where do I find older rpms. Thanks.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Hi people its time to pass my trusty HTC one S on to another family member.
Which rom would people recommend where everything just works please?
Currently using Magio rom which is lovely but i never managed to get the radio to work.
Thanks people.
Gavin01 said:
Hi people its time to pass my trusty HTC one S on to another family member.
Which rom would people recommend where everything just works please?
Currently using Magio rom which is lovely but i never managed to get the radio to work.
Thanks people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it were me ... a stock 4.1 rom if they prefer "sense", or CM 10 (4.1.2) for aosp.
wmdunn said:
If it were me ... a stock 4.1 rom if they prefer "sense", or CM 10 (4.1.2) for aosp.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stock 4.1? should i not at least be looking at stock 4.2.2?
Im so used to flashing custom roms that i have to ask is it easy just to flash the stock rom back?
Ideally id like to put everything back to stock even the recovery tbh so they cant get confused if TWRP loaded up by mistake like it does some times if the battery goes flat.
Gavin01 said:
Hi people its time to pass my trusty HTC one S on to another family member.
Which rom would people recommend where everything just works please?
Currently using Magio rom which is lovely but i never managed to get the radio to work.
Thanks people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just my opinion of giving a phone to a non xda person, no disrespect to any of the great folks here who develop:
If the phone is S-Off
Maximus HD
S-ON
(for US Tmobile)Unknown ROM
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2250573
SourcE
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2392465
Again just pointing out some stockish stable roms, I like all of em.
tivofool said:
Just my opinion of giving a phone to a non xda person, no disrespect to any of the great folks here who develop:
If the phone is S-Off
Maximus HD
S-ON
(for US Tmobile)Unknown ROM
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2250573
SourcE
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2392465
Again just pointing out some stockish stable roms, I like all of em.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks but s on is still active and im not us based so the us t mobile rom probably isnt the one??
Gavin01 said:
Thanks but s on is still active and im not us based so the us t mobile rom probably isnt the one??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Load up the SourcE Rom and see if you like that. It is stock(ish) with audio improvements.
edit: so many to choose from
or ZenRom that's another good one.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2076855
Gavin01 said:
Stock 4.1? should i not at least be looking at stock 4.2.2?
Im so used to flashing custom roms that i have to ask is it easy just to flash the stock rom back?
Ideally id like to put everything back to stock even the recovery tbh so they cant get confused if TWRP loaded up by mistake like it does some times if the battery goes flat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you, taking everything back to stock is a good idea. Not sure where you are located, but it should be easy enough to find the stock RUU for your phone/carrier. When you install the RUU, it will automatically include the stock recovery as well.
RUU_Ville_U_ICS_40_S_HTC_Europe_2.31.401.5_Radio_1 .06es.50.02.31_10.09a.50.04L_release_275655_signed
that was the RUU i used............
Just to make you laugh i tried for over 5 hours to run the RUU then remembered i needed to relock the bootloader lol
Gavin01 said:
RUU_Ville_U_ICS_40_S_HTC_Europe_2.31.401.5_Radio_1 .06es.50.02.31_10.09a.50.04L_release_275655_signed
that was the RUU i used............
Just to make you laugh i tried for over 5 hours to run the RUU then remembered i needed to relock the bootloader lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad to hear it all worked out for you!
in the end! although whilst using it i was querying why i got s4!!??
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