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Meego OS

Hi, I hope not to upset anyone by starting a new thread, but could not find this question asked elsewhere yet.
Now that Nokia and Intel have linked up to back Meego, this should have the potential to be a major OS for smart phones in the next couple of years - after all, Symbian has the biggest OS share, with 45% of the high end 'phone market, far above the iPhone or WMx. And it is also backed by an impressive list of other 'phone makers.
Is there any appetite within XDAdevelopers to port this OS to HTC products? Can it run on HTC 'phones (I guess so, since I understand it has a Linux kernel)?
Is there much involved in developing current apps to run on Meego? Can this be automated?
Would appreciate some thoughtful feedback to this question, since apps developers are missing a major market by either writing separately for Meego, or not at all.

By the way, I am very interested in a XD-meego version
Meego Handset have been released some weeks ago
http://meego.com/community/blogs/valhalla/2010/meego-handset-project-day-1-here
I think there is a way to adapt a bootloader like haret to boot a Meego image.
There is already a aava image released officialy and a (ARM) Nokia N900 image

[Q] Are we depended on Viewsonic or Android?

New to Android. But long time user of Linux/RH/Fedora. Are there “distro's” on Android? Can users easily add/remove software with a RPM type management system? In Linux if you don't like TnT you would just uninstall it. Viewsonic g tablet seems to be ok if you manually change a few things. I'm assuming that this is generally a temporary problem due to Viewsonic being behind in their updates. But what I would like to know is there going to be any long term “distro” type leadership going forward? When the new Android Tablet OS is released will it work with most hardware (Viewsonic) like a Linux distro or are we depended on Viewsonic. If Viewsonic let us down can we divorce them and go directly to Android or someone else for automatic updates? Thinking about buying. Can wait for Flash update hopefully in December. Don't see screen as a problem, basically the same as most laptops/netbooks. Can add market manually till it become official with new OS.
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Android is not like normal distros.
Being primarily an OS aimed at mobile devices (IE phones) with limited memory and proprietary layouts and internal set-ups, all drivers can not be provided in one overall install. Confliction between drivers would be an issue as well. Also look at many phones (like the nexus one) the Firmware controlling the cellular radio also controls the camera and encoding of videos and images. There is some common ground, but one ROM will not work on all devices without tweaking for the perticular device. CyanogenMOD ROM is a good example, it works on many devices but you must install the proper version for the device you have.
Also remember that we do not have Root on these devices out of the box, 99% of the time we must find an exploit to gain full access to the device. The Nexus one and the G tablet are the only devices I know of off hand without locked down bootloaders. Cellular carriers want the devices looked down so the users can not use the device in ways that the carriers do not want. (like free tethering)
We are dependant on the manufacturer often times to release source code for the device so Devs can rip out the proper drivers and framework for the device. Often times drivers cross over between android versions making updating easier for the ROM devs.
If you want a device that you can truly tinker with, stick to devices that Google has as Developer models. The old G1 the Nexus One and the upcoming Nexus S. Maybe they will release a Dev tablet as well.
The N900 is more open in that regard as far as being like a true Linux, though the future of that branch seems uncertain. It will defiantly be more niche.

Thanks for the reply. I guess I was thinking Android was Linux lite. Not sure where I stand on a tablet now. Think I want a Linux pc in a tablet form. Fedora on a tablet would be fine for me. Like you say tablets with MeeGo (Intel/Nokia/Linux Foundation) may or may not appear any time soon. Have to wait and see what happens.

tktim said:
Thanks for the reply. I guess I was thinking Android was Linux lite. Not sure where I stand on a tablet now. Think I want a Linux pc in a tablet form. Fedora on a tablet would be fine for me. Like you say tablets with MeeGo (Intel/Nokia/Linux Foundation) may or may not appear any time soon. Have to wait and see what happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android is running on top of Linux, and given programs compiled for ARM you can install about anything, but there's no X... Framebuffer stuff could potentially work..
But no, if you're looking for a typical Linux desktop environment, this isn't the place to look. Although some of the dual boot Windows/Android tablets makes me wonder how difficult it would be to get it Linux/Android.

Thanks for the additional information.

Speculation on the Future of Android and the Continued Existence of Custom ROMs

A question for those more "in the know", than me: What is the future of Android OS and, more specifically custom ROMS? Google has given up on Android on tablets. Their new Slate runs Chrome OS. There is also plenty of speculation online that Google is working on a replacement for Android in the next few years. Add these things up and it points to an eventual end of the road for Android. What does this mean for custom ROMs? Will we ever see custom ROM versions of Chrome OS?

My phone may stop working next year

Hello,
I have a LG L90 D415 that I bought back in 2014 and is working perfectly. I was using it with the last official update sent by the manufacturer (Andorid 5.1.1 Lollipop), but one single APP stop working and when I check for that APP, for it to work I needed to have Android 6 Marshmallow. Problem was that the manufacturer stop supporting the unit and they decided not to provide any other update beyond 5.1.1. Luckily I found that there was version 7 Nougat for my unit as an AOSP with Linange OS. Me, being an ignorant of android configuration, had a hard time installing it but finally was able to make it work. If not for that APP that stop working I would never change the OS but at the end I was happy, it was like having a new phone. I was able to install the APP and make it work. Then few days ago I read this article:
Devices may stop working next year: Here's why
The article is talking about devices that won't be able to work due to outdated security certificates. Specifically about andorid devices using Android version 7 Nougat (the one that I recently install on the phone), the article says:
The most vulnerable devices
Helme said users of Windows computers won't need to worry, as Microsoft has built in constant updating of certificates. Web browsers on most platforms get certificate updates regularly. And because iPhones get system updates so frequently, "I wouldn't be too concerned about this problem if I was an iOS user (I am)."
"But it looks like Android users might have some concerns in the not too distant future," Helme added.
That's because as of April 2020, nearly 40% of all Android devices visible to Google were using now-unsupported Android versions such as Nougat or earlier. (These statistics don't include Amazon Fire tablets, Xiaomi Mi phones or other devices that run non-Google versions of Android.) Many of those older devices may soon lose the ability to connect to most app servers and websites.​
Since I have an old unit it seems that there is no interest from the LinageOS people to build at least version 8 of Android for the LG L90. So I need to ask, What are my options? Is there a way to find updated security certificates?
Please advise.

3d1l said:
Hello,
I have a LG L90 D415 that I bought back in 2014 and is working perfectly. I was using it with the last official update sent by the manufacturer (Andorid 5.1.1 Lollipop), but one single APP stop working and when I check for that APP, for it to work I needed to have Android 6 Marshmallow. Problem was that the manufacturer stop supporting the unit and they decided not to provide any other update beyond 5.1.1. Luckily I found that there was version 7 Nougat for my unit as an AOSP with Linange OS. Me, being an ignorant of android configuration, had a hard time installing it but finally was able to make it work. If not for that APP that stop working I would never change the OS but at the end I was happy, it was like having a new phone. I was able to install the APP and make it work. Then few days ago I read this article:
Devices may stop working next year: Here's why
The article is talking about devices that won't be able to work due to outdated security certificates. Specifically about andorid devices using Android version 7 Nougat (the one that I recently install on the phone), the article says:
The most vulnerable devices
Helme said users of Windows computers won't need to worry, as Microsoft has built in constant updating of certificates. Web browsers on most platforms get certificate updates regularly. And because iPhones get system updates so frequently, "I wouldn't be too concerned about this problem if I was an iOS user (I am)."
"But it looks like Android users might have some concerns in the not too distant future," Helme added.
That's because as of April 2020, nearly 40% of all Android devices visible to Google were using now-unsupported Android versions such as Nougat or earlier. (These statistics don't include Amazon Fire tablets, Xiaomi Mi phones or other devices that run non-Google versions of Android.) Many of those older devices may soon lose the ability to connect to most app servers and websites.​
Since I have an old unit it seems that there is no interest from the LinageOS people to build at least version 8 of Android for the LG L90. So I need to ask, What are my options? Is there a way to find updated security certificates?
Please advise.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the manufacturer stops supports a device and if the device is no longer supported by custom development in the android user community and if security updates are no longer supported by the manufacturer or by custom android developers, the only other options are to support the software development yourself, if possible, or get a new device. You obviously won't be able to do the software/security support yourself so that leaves you only the option of getting a new device.
By the way, whoever wrote that article is an idiot iOS user. Yes, Apple will continue to release security updates, but, not for all Apple devices, they don't offer updates/support on their older devices. Apple doesn't want its users to use Apple devices more than a year or two, for this reason, they discontinue support on those older devices to force its users to buy newer devices.
Sent from my SM-S767VL using Tapatalk

Droidriven said:
If the manufacturer stops supports a device and if the device is no longer supported by custom development in the android user community and if security updates are no longer supported by the manufacturer or by custom android developers, the only other options are to support the software development yourself, if possible, or get a new device. You obviously won't be able to do the software/security support yourself so that leaves you only the option of getting a new device.
By the way, whoever wrote that article is an idiot iOS user. Yes, Apple will continue to release security updates, but, not for all Apple devices, they don't offer updates/support on their older devices. Apple doesn't want its users to use Apple devices more than a year or two, for this reason, they discontinue support on those older devices to force its users to buy newer devices.
Sent from my SM-S767VL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks,
I definitively won't be able to built my own, I'm just a dumb ignorant normal user, I don't even know how I was able to pull it out, I'm talking about rooting with magisk and installing the Linage version 14 ROM. I read and read, ask a lot of questions that were never answered (nobody seems to be interested). It was like my android lifetime achievement and something that you are able to do only once in your life.
I was checking the phone status and it says that the last uptade that I have installed is Linage OS 14.1 (Andorid 7.1.2), with android security patch level 2019-01-05. I hope that that helps somehow. I also found that there is another ROM of Linage OS using Android 8 (Oreo), for the LG L90 but it says that it is unofficial, so I feel uneasy installing it. It's a shame, the phone is working so fine, it is my first and only smartphone and has been with me... well... more than seven years.

Millions of phones and tablets are obsolete because of sofware. Is there a way around?

Hi everyone.
Every year millions of phones and tablets are produced. Because hardware makers don't worry about updating them, those devices are often dumped. However, lots of them are very capable machines.
As I've read these forums for years, I've seen a lot of work from a lot of people trying to bring those forgotten devices to life again by making unofficial ROMs with tons of customization, new features, and great efforts like LineageOS and PostmarketOS. However, those lack the resources to bring an updated OS for the majority of those binned and obsolete phones.
If I'm not wrong, the biggest issue about replacing the original OS on those devices are the bootloaders and drivers/blobs for the large amount of different hardware configurations. There are multiple workarounds, shims, ports that solve those problems for one or other device.
It might be quite naive, but i'd like to ask a question I've been thinking about lately. AFAIK, if I have the blobs/drivers for a camera, wifi, bluetooth, GPS or other "peripheral" for a devices' original ROM running Android 4.4, I can make it work on AOSP 4.4. I know this might be crazy, but:
As long as I have the blobs for a certain chipset and display/touch, why can't we use a VM running a nano version of AOSP that matches the devices' original ROM that bridges the device IO to the main ROM?
As an example, imagine wifi. I could network bridge AOSP 9 to a VM running AOSP 4, which would then have the drivers so network would work. The same for bluetooth or camera or GPS, maybe? Is this absolutely unfeasible?
Thank you for your time!

wasserprojekt said:
Hi everyone.
Every year millions of phones and tablets are produced. Because hardware makers don't worry about updating them, those devices are often dumped. However, lots of them are very capable machines.
As I've read these forums for years, I've seen a lot of work from a lot of people trying to bring those forgotten devices to life again by making unofficial ROMs with tons of customization, new features, and great efforts like LineageOS and PostmarketOS. However, those lack the resources to bring an updated OS for the majority of those binned and obsolete phones.
If I'm not wrong, the biggest issue about replacing the original OS on those devices are the bootloaders and drivers/blobs for the large amount of different hardware configurations. There are multiple workarounds, shims, ports that solve those problems for one or other device.
It might be quite naive, but i'd like to ask a question I've been thinking about lately. AFAIK, if I have the blobs/drivers for a camera, wifi, bluetooth, GPS or other "peripheral" for a devices' original ROM running Android 4.4, I can make it work on AOSP 4.4. I know this might be crazy, but:
As long as I have the blobs for a certain chipset and display/touch, why can't we use a VM running a nano version of AOSP that matches the devices' original ROM that bridges the device IO to the main ROM?
As an example, imagine wifi. I could network bridge AOSP 9 to a VM running AOSP 4, which would then have the drivers so network would work. The same for bluetooth or camera or GPS, maybe? Is this absolutely unfeasible?
Thank you for your time!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's sort of what project treble is.
Project Treble
The Android 8.0 release includes Project Treble, a major re-architect of the Android OS framework designed to make it easier, faster, and less costly for manufacturers to update devices to a new version of Android. Treble is for all new devices launching with Android 8.0 and beyond.
forum.xda-developers.com

I was reading about it and it seems like treble is not very seccessful. I imagine Google isn't very interested on this, as they want phones to be sold every year. Anyway, I was asking about this specific method of making phones and tablets compatible with today's OS or, who knows, even linux.

wasserprojekt said:
I was reading about it and it seems like treble is not very seccessful. I imagine Google isn't very interested on this, as they want phones to be sold every year. Anyway, I was asking about this specific method of making phones and tablets compatible with today's OS or, who knows, even linux.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes and the only way it might work is trebel. Because treble handles lot of the problems involved with booting newer androids on older systems.
You can run linux on older Androids or even Windows XP.
How to install a Linux desktop on your Android device
Get even more from your Android device by running a desktop OS! Lots of options including Debian (no root), Ubuntu, and Kali Linux.
www.androidauthority.com
Running Windows XP on Android
No rooting or custom modifications needed, we’re going to do this with stock Android and a few free (but high-quality) apps.
centerorbit.medium.com
Also, it's not that the OS gets deprecated, it's that the applications like Google Play services which become heavier as years go by.
Degoogled-Android on my Android ICS phone worked fine till it's screen got busted. With Google Play services, it was impossible to install any app since its paltry 400MB storage was extended/

Thanks for your answers!
Running other OSes via VNC is just meant to use the devices as mere thin clients, and that was not the objective.
The Project Treble will never be as widespread as it should be, because Google is obviously not interested in making phones last longer (they want more devices to be sold). Of course I was not talking about devices 10 years old, more about 5yrs. They have specs good enough to run contemporary Android and most of non-entertainment apps.
The obstacles to being able to do this are artificial. The problem is there are no drivers and project Treble does not address this in any meaningful way. Manufacturers aren't interested in this too because they want to sell more chips. So the only way it came to my mind it could work was by running a very light VM with an older Android for which the components' drivers were available. Of course main components would still have to be compatible with newer Android, such as the SOC. But things such as wi-fi, camera... could be bridged from a VM, I believe.

Not sure, but I'd guess the low-level interface would have to be outside the VM.
That is, to be able to run the VM you'd have to have some drivers already in place. I'm also not sure everything can be virtualized. For example, desktop VMs couldn't so easily passthru PCIe or USB to VMs, at least in the past.
There's some EU push to make fixing and servicing some non-phone devices easier, and to mandate labeling phones (and other devices) with repairability scores. Maybe eventually they could mandate, under certain conditions, the logical separation of hardware and software?

Well, after a long time, for those who where curious about this thread: the project Halium is exactly what was in my mind. If I'm not wrong, it basically consists in a minimal Android rom running on a Virtual Machine which then interfaces with any Linux distro, effectively giving the phone the ability to run a (more or less) updated version of Linux kernel and, therefore, many Linux distros. https://docs.halium.org/en/latest/project/Scope.html

hkjo said:
Not sure, but I'd guess the low-level interface would have to be outside the VM.
That is, to be able to run the VM you'd have to have some drivers already in place. I'm also not sure everything can be virtualized. For example, desktop VMs couldn't so easily passthru PCIe or USB to VMs, at least in the past.
There's some EU push to make fixing and servicing some non-phone devices easier, and to mandate labeling phones (and other devices) with repairability scores. Maybe eventually they could mandate, under certain conditions, the logical separation of hardware and software?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, and I believe Halium just works on phones which are minimally supported by Linux kernel drivers (like basic SoCs). But all those other hardware parts, like GPS, Wi-Fi, Camera... can be brought to life this way, I think.
Thanks for your insight!