Who else is upset about this?
It's one thing to promote emulators on the Top Paid section... But stolen Pokemon games is another.
Google is currently promoting Pokemon Red and Pokemon Emerald in the Top Paid section of Arcade & Action Games. They each cost $2.99.
I have no problem with emulators, and I have no problem with "GPL" ports. Either seem legal to sell as well, when not provided with proprietary content, such as demos or freeware files to support the GPL engines. But completely proprietary games being sold? I think there's a huge problem with that. It's not like they're buried either. Their within the top 30 paid apps. And it seems quite obvious that Google re-arranges that list themselves at the start of every month.
I don't feel comfortable supporting such a huge corporation that permits and even promotes activities like this.
Not to mention that Mario clone. Mobile Andrio is it? Uses proprietary Nintendo sprites? Not as big of an issue but it is still illegal.
Open != Anti-Law
I doubt the top picks are hand picked. Probably some automated process using certain criteria
avgjoemomma said:
I doubt the top picks are hand picked. Probably some automated process using certain criteria
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While that may be the case, somebody at Google should be keeping an eye on that. The right things to do would be to send an email to market support, or whomever it may concern, and go to the app on the market, and report it!
I definitely share the viewpoint of the OP.
Edit: I've just gone through all his apps and reported them. They're all Nintendo games and he's selling them all to make a personal profit. I bet if Nintendo knew about this, they wouldn't be too happy. Hint hint.
Yeah, you should report them if you see them but I was just trying to explain to OP that it's not Google promoting the apps, it's just an automated process (most likely)
That's what you get when you can upload about anything to the Market
I reported all of the Pokémon games released by that Gaming something author, aswell as some other Super Mario games by the same author. Stated "Copyright infringement". Should get their attention
Well the last top list had 4 GangWars apps at the top? I've been watching every month. Also, Angry Birds being number one on day one? There's a reason Angry Birds makes 1 million $ month from Admob on Android... Because they specifically chose it as the top app. Same thing when Seasons debutted. They had a deal with Angry Birds to be an "Admob success story".
Either way, it definitely makes sense to me that someone at Google handpicked them as they only have 1-5000 downloads, and many, more higher performing apps, are far below it. I investigate the market like all day.
BTW the email of this guy is [email protected]
I found out a few things about him.
First off, he went to a baseball game with Zodttd: http://twitter.com/#!/zodttd/status/21505912283
Second off, he steals and rebrands crap on Cydia: http://macthemes.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=740518 http://www.macthemes.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=751022
I have no problems with Zodttd's emulators, in fact I support them. I think it's a great feature. However I have problems with ROM Buddy, which Google also handpicked.
I will be calling Nintendo's copyright infringingement report number tomorrow.
Also you gotta think about the 4 digits that this guy is making from this. It's unacceptable. And it's not like Google is gonna take his money and refund everybody.
But yeah, the main problem here is that these games aren't in "the back yard". They're right there up front representing the integrity of the market and Google itself.
I'd imagine it would be very easy to make it to the top list if you had a game that had a lot of downloads within a certain amount of time. I'm not sure how they do it but it's something to consider. I don't think Google's place is to censor apps or go through some BS "certification" process. I do expect them to make sure an app does no harm to the system or my information. If an app developer chooses to infringe on a copyright, the holders of that copyright should contact Google to remove the app. Users can also do this but I can imagine that would be a nightmare. Anyways, you've reported the apps and so have many others. I personally go through comments and report the spammers than try to get people to join the $9.99 all apps a year scam sites. We each do our own little part to keep the Market safe, no need to ask Google to go all Apple derp on it.
I don't feel like Google cleans the market at all. I don't feel like reports are read. And I don't feel like the 'mark as spam' does anything other than hide that user's rating from yourself.
The market is a disaster atm honestly. The mess just keeps growing every day.
And it must be Google's place to sensor it: it's THEIR store. Don't forget that Google is cashing in on 30% of this guy's profit.
As for reporting the copyright infringement properly via the webform, they state it is illegal to report it unless you are the copyright holder! Lol.
The Android market is pretty much the pirate bay, but instead of things being free and shared, they're sold. And look what happened to them? Going to jail. And they aren't even USA based.
What annoys me are the stupid "Boost the Cat" and "Shoot the Rabbit" games that keep popping up as just added every few days. It's not updates but some guy who keeps resubmitting these apps as new. I suspect he's also using fake accounts to rate these apps at 5 stars soon after a "new" release.
I didnt know so much Pokecrap existed in the Market.
avgjoemomma said:
I'd imagine it would be very easy to make it to the top list if you had a game that had a lot of downloads within a certain amount of time.
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Correct. "Top" doesn't just mean tons of downloads, it also takes into account how quickly those downloads happen. If you jump up a few thousand downloads in a single day, especially if it was currently low (such as number of users has more than doubled or quadrupled), then yeah - "Top" qualification.
would it be possible to create an emulator for windows phone 7 that runs windows mobile apps, like Classic for the palm pre? If web os can do it why cant windows phone 7?
WP7 "sandboxes" applications so no single application can take down the entire phone. So app developers are designing applications with their hands tied behind their backs, figuratively. As more APIs are released, we'll see better things in the future.
isaiah12345 said:
would it be possible to create an emulator for windows phone 7 that runs windows mobile apps, like Classic for the palm pre? If web os can do it why cant windows phone 7?
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-Yes it is possible.
-If it were done, it probably wouldn't pass marketplace rules. MS banned some game emulators already, a shocking decision which shows you need directly installable apps.
-If it were done, it might not run at an acceptable speed for 10 years, assuming phones progress at Moore's law.
-The programming required would be an immense task.
-Almost no value would be created as there aren't enough important, unique WM applications.
the argument about game emulators banned is not due to the fact they dislike emulators, they would happily support it IF the intellectual property of the games themselves could be done without a legal storm occurring. So for example, if someone makes a gameboy emulator for windows phone (which i've seen an image of on some of the other sites), MS would be happy to put the emulator up if the games themselves could be transferred legally. This would mean that Nintendo would need to approve of what is happening and get their cut... they wouldn't ever allow it as it takes away from their devices and profits. So that is why MS doesn't allow the emulators. It's no shocking decision...
The Gate Keeper said:
IF the intellectual property of the games themselves could be done without a legal storm occurring. So for example, if someone makes a gameboy emulator for windows phone (which i've seen an image of on some of the other sites), MS would be happy to put the emulator up if the games themselves could be transferred legally. This would mean that Nintendo would need to approve of what is happening and get their cut... they wouldn't ever allow it as it takes away from their devices and profits. So that is why MS doesn't allow the emulators. It's no shocking decision...
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Emulators are completely legal.
Games can also be transferred legally, although that is not MS's responsibility.
No 3rd parties need to approve.
The decision is shocking from two points of view. Firstly, legitimate software is being banned. Secondly, it is a strategic mistake as Microsoft does not have an interest in Nintendo's profits. Microsoft has an interest in creating secure platforms, but why should it hurt its own users in order to secure other companies' platforms?
i never said emulators were illegal. i made the argument that games couldn't be transferred legally. this is backed by there being no actual means except via some online process. how would you propose it can be done legally? without it being abused by pirates? if you can answer this using current technologies available to windows phone, then you can trumpt my argument as well as MS's stance on it.
I'm not sure if MS have an interest or not in Nintendo's profits, but what does xbox on a windows phone speak of then... it's a handheld gaming device, like a nintendo DS is. So maybe they are? i'm not sure.
Furthermore, you just validated my point... "creating secure platforms", this also means stopping a legal storm for themselves and any developers that put their stuff on the platform.
I know it's very Apple like of an argument, and MS is quite liberal with it (e.g. torrent controllers are allowed in WP marketplace, but not iTunes marketplace), but there is a point where they have to say no.
Basically, until you can provide a means to actually legally do it, without piracy being able to subvert this (which is pretty much impossible because you can download the ROMs anyways... and then make a claim that you legally own the game, when you just downloaded the ROM), my argument which is MS's stance, is valid.
The Gate Keeper said:
i never said emulators were illegal. i made the argument that games couldn't be transferred legally. this is backed by there being no actual means except via some online process. how would you propose it can be done legally? without it being abused by pirates? if you can answer this using current technologies available to windows phone, then you can trumpt my argument as well as MS's stance on it.
I'm not sure if MS have an interest or not in Nintendo's profits, but what does xbox on a windows phone speak of then... it's a handheld gaming device, like a nintendo DS is. So maybe they are? i'm not sure.
Furthermore, you just validated my point... "creating secure platforms", this also means stopping a legal storm for themselves and any developers that put their stuff on the platform.
I know it's very Apple like of an argument, and MS is quite liberal with it (e.g. torrent controllers are allowed in WP marketplace, but not iTunes marketplace), but there is a point where they have to say no.
Basically, until you can provide a means to actually legally do it, without piracy being able to subvert this (which is pretty much impossible because you can download the ROMs anyways... and then make a claim that you legally own the game, when you just downloaded the ROM), my argument which is MS's stance, is valid.
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It is legal to download the ROM if you own the game, so that is a legal way of doing it.
For instance, I own like 50 NES games, I actually have the games in my closet, so it would be perfectly legal for me to download a SMB rom onto my WP7 phone and run it via an emulator.
orangekid said:
It is legal to download the ROM if you own the game, so that is a legal way of doing it.
For instance, I own like 50 NES games, I actually have the games in my closet, so it would be perfectly legal for me to download a SMB rom onto my WP7 phone and run it via an emulator.
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Whilst you own the games and therefore are legally about to, that still doesn't respond to my point...
Also, that still doesn't provide a method for how to do it legally for those that do not have the games? you can make the claim and aye i believe you do own those games, but there are plenty who a) want to play those games and are happy to pay for it, OR b) want to play those games and don't want to play for it because they could download it illegally (piracy). as i said... provide an theoretical way using today's technologies available to Windows Phone to transfer the ROMs legally without piracy overrunning it, and you can null and void my argument and MS stance, if not, then it's still stands.
The Gate Keeper said:
i never said emulators were illegal.
...
Furthermore, you just validated my point... "creating secure platforms", this also means stopping a legal storm for themselves and any developers that put their stuff on the platform.
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Emulators are legal, hosting emulators is legal.
Doing legal things doesn't create "legal storms".
i made the argument that games couldn't be transferred legally. this is backed by there being no actual means except via some online process. how would you propose it can be done legally?
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Take a game, extract the ROM ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROM_image ), then you have it on your computer. Since WP7 is still short on basic features, the emulator software needs to sync the ROM on the computer with its internal storage.
I'm not sure if MS have an interest or not in Nintendo's profits, but what does xbox on a windows phone speak of then... it's a handheld gaming device, like a nintendo DS is. So maybe they are? i'm not sure.
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If I buy a Nintendo product, the revenue does not magically go to microsoft via xbox on windows phone. Xbox on windows phone is not a mechanism for microsoft to hack into Nintendo's profits. You have some conspiracy theory?
Furthermore, you just validated my point... "creating secure platforms", this also means stopping a legal storm for themselves and any developers that put their stuff on the platform.
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What?
Basically, until you can provide a means to actually legally do it, without piracy being able to subvert this (which is pretty much impossible because you can download the ROMs anyways... and then make a claim that you legally own the game, when you just downloaded the ROM), my argument which is MS's stance, is valid.
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Microsoft is prohibiting legal software on its marketplace.
It has no reason for doing so because it is not harming its ecosystem. Emulators would not make its current platforms less secure, unless they emulate those platforms which is not feasible. Maybe it would hurt competitors a bit. If the market is uncollusive, it shouldn't care.
you seem to miss my point... it isn't the emulator themselves, it's the games. and yes i know you can get the ROMs off a proper game fine, but i'm talking about the many that abuse it and just download the ROM in general without actually paying for the game. that is what causes a legal storm, not the emulator themselves... merely googling a game with the word ROM after it will lead you to many places that upload the ROMs. That is the part which is pretty much impossible for MS to stop. do you see my point now?
A proposed solution would be for the emulator developer to house the roms on a site, and people would sign into the site using an account (windows live in this case), and they could purchase the right to download/use the rom. but then, what if you own the game? you don't want to have to purchase it again, so how about uploading your own rom? which opens up propsed solution to piracy as well... but even in terms of purchasing the use of the rom, the manufacturers/publishers of the game would need to be involved as i'm sure they'll just sue the developer for doing it illegally.
EMULATOR = LEGAL
TRANSFER OF ROM IN A LEGAL WAY = VERY DIFFICULT...
anyways, back on point...
ycavan and CSMR have it right, it's doable but very difficult. In pretty much all cases it would be better for the originally developer to redo their program for windows phone 7, especially if they made it in C#.NET or VB.NET as these languages are supported in Windows Phone 7.
The Gate Keeper said:
you seem to miss my point... it isn't the emulator themselves, it's the games. and yes i know you can get the ROMs off a proper game fine, but i'm talking about the many that abuse it and just download the ROM in general without actually paying for the game. that is what causes a legal storm, not the emulator themselves... merely googling a game with the word ROM after it will lead you to many places that upload the ROMs. That is the part which is pretty much impossible for MS to stop. do you see my point now?
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Microsoft isn't legally responsible for this. It also has no interest in stopping people from downloading old ROMs illegally.
EMULATOR = LEGAL
TRANSFER OF ROM IN A LEGAL WAY = VERY DIFFICULT...
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Hosting an emulator is legal. Not taking deliberate action to block an emulator is legal. That's Microsoft's part in this.
Doesn't seem to be a problem in other markets.
vetvito said:
Doesn't seem to be a problem in other markets.
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very true, I have a hard time believing that MS is any more ethical than Google
Game emulators are banned because their sole purpose is to execute illegal ROMs. There's no valid use case and therefore not allowed. (And yes, I verified this.)
WithinRafael said:
Game emulators are banned because their sole purpose is to execute illegal ROMs. There's no valid use case and therefore not allowed. (And yes, I verified this.)
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the thing is though is that that's not true, in fact it's false.
It IS legal to play ROMs that you own on an emulator, therefore it is not the "sole purpose" to play illegal games. I actually own like 50 NES games and play Dr, Mario, contra, and super techmo bowl on my HD2 regularly when I want to kill some time.
so whomever you verified this was full of ****.
orangekid said:
the thing is though is that that's not true, in fact it's false.
It IS legal to play ROMs that you own on an emulator, therefore it is not the "sole purpose" to play illegal games. I actually own like 50 NES games and play Dr, Mario, contra, and super techmo bowl on my HD2 regularly when I want to kill some time.
so whomever you verified this was full of ****.
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http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#download_rom
There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.
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brummiesteven said:
http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#download_rom
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This is a biased source. Even that only refers to downloading from the internet, not extracting it yourself.
Point to a single person who has been convicted or penalized in any way for having a rom (or any other intellectual property of any sort) he owns "physically" also on his pc.
well in australia customs have stopped several large shipments of the R4. i know it's not directly related to roms on a person's PC, but it does show that the use of ROMs in general are not liked.
i could say that i have the game, extracted the rom and want to put it on an R4, but it appears that the R4 units are illegal, and nintendo have taken R4 distributors to court and won. so this clearly shows that nintendo's stance isn't just a biased one but one backed by the australian court system... source: http://www.itnews.com.au/News/167490,nintendo-wins-lawsuit-over-r4-mod-chip-piracy.aspx
edit: wouldn't this put MS in the exact same position as the R4 distributors?
CSMR said:
This is a biased source. Even that only refers to downloading from the internet, not extracting it yourself.
Point to a single person who has been convicted or penalized in any way for having a rom (or any other intellectual property of any sort) he owns "physically" also on his pc.
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It doesn't matter weather anyone had been penalised for it or not. It's still illegal.
Nobody got caught using blank VHS tapes to record off the TV but they still wouldn't be permitted on eBay.
I want emulators as much as the next guy but at least I can understand both sides.
orangekid said:
the thing is though is that that's not true, in fact it's false.
It IS legal to play ROMs that you own on an emulator, therefore it is not the "sole purpose" to play illegal games. I actually own like 50 NES games and play Dr, Mario, contra, and super techmo bowl on my HD2 regularly when I want to kill some time.
so whomever you verified this was full of ****.
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It is not legal. I understand you were fooled by the common myth, like a lot of us were, but it's not legal. You are not entitled to a free digital copy of the game you purchase. And you're not entitled to a "backup" because the original medium (i.e. the hardware cartridge) can't be overwritten or destroyed (over time or by accident) -- see Atari, Inc. v. JS&A Group, Inc.
There are people fighting this, e.g. arguing about fair use, but that's how it stands right now. You don't have to like Microsoft's decision, but you should at least understand it.
This very topic came up in our ChevronWP7 & Microsoft meeting. We all agreed there's no legitimate use case for allowing console emulators on Windows Phone 7.
I have been coming to xda for about 5 years now for roms, and other mods, I'm ashamed to say after all this time this is my first post and first account. I was playing call of duty last night on my Asus Nexus 7 and this idea hit me: would it be possible to create bootable game images? A Game ROM manager could be created and install instead twrp maybe? That ROM manager would also be the firmware. This project will take some serious coding skills, because you would have to code the drivers for the device into the ROM manager then you boot the games from the ROM manager. This would allow the games to harness the full power of the device instead of sharing with resources with other running processes/services (if even possible). I don't like to take no for a answer when it comes to creativity, I'm not a programmer myself but I would be interested in reading the feedback of some senior developers, if this can be done I see a market aimed at companies like electronic arts and other game companies that offer PC versions of their games. If the idea can work, games could be sold on data size appropriate Micro SD cards then launched through the ROM manager. I know that there emulators out there, but you are running that on a virtual machine using a legacy graphics engine... This would change how games are played on mobile devices if possible. This is basically a custom operating system. But if any of you have ever heard of WWW[dot]steampowered[dot]comthe are a huge game platform for windows games. Steam released its own os for home theater computers, if this idea could be done, steam could could be installed on the device as a platform for launching games ( if steam takes interest).
Chad B. said:
I have been coming to xda for about 5 years now for roms, and other mods, I'm ashamed to say after all this time this is my first post and first account. I was playing call of duty last night on my Asus Nexus 7 and this idea hit me: would it be possible to create bootable game images? A Game ROM manager could be created and install instead twrp maybe? That ROM manager would also be the firmware. This project will take some serious coding skills, because you would have to code the drivers for the device into the ROM manager then you boot the games from the ROM manager. This would allow the games to harness the full power of the device instead of sharing with resources with other running processes/services (if even possible). I don't like to take no for a answer when it comes to creativity, I'm not a programmer myself but I would be interested in reading the feedback of some senior developers, if this can be done I see a market aimed at companies like electronic arts and other game companies that offer PC versions of their games. If the idea can work, games could be sold on data size appropriate Micro SD cards then launched through the ROM manager. I know that there emulators out there, but you are running that on a virtual machine using a legacy graphics engine... This would change how games are played on mobile devices if possible. This is basically a custom operating system. But if any of you have ever heard of WWW[dot]steampowered[dot]comthe are a huge game platform for windows games. Steam released its own os for home theater computers, if this idea could be done, steam could could be installed on the device as a platform for launching games ( if steam takes interest).
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Hey everyone, Please if you can provide some feedback on this concept. If you think its dumb, let me know, if you think its possible please let me know. I am anxious to hear something from the talented developers here at XDA. Thanks!