would it be possible to create an emulator for windows phone 7 that runs windows mobile apps, like Classic for the palm pre? If web os can do it why cant windows phone 7?
WP7 "sandboxes" applications so no single application can take down the entire phone. So app developers are designing applications with their hands tied behind their backs, figuratively. As more APIs are released, we'll see better things in the future.
isaiah12345 said:
would it be possible to create an emulator for windows phone 7 that runs windows mobile apps, like Classic for the palm pre? If web os can do it why cant windows phone 7?
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-Yes it is possible.
-If it were done, it probably wouldn't pass marketplace rules. MS banned some game emulators already, a shocking decision which shows you need directly installable apps.
-If it were done, it might not run at an acceptable speed for 10 years, assuming phones progress at Moore's law.
-The programming required would be an immense task.
-Almost no value would be created as there aren't enough important, unique WM applications.
the argument about game emulators banned is not due to the fact they dislike emulators, they would happily support it IF the intellectual property of the games themselves could be done without a legal storm occurring. So for example, if someone makes a gameboy emulator for windows phone (which i've seen an image of on some of the other sites), MS would be happy to put the emulator up if the games themselves could be transferred legally. This would mean that Nintendo would need to approve of what is happening and get their cut... they wouldn't ever allow it as it takes away from their devices and profits. So that is why MS doesn't allow the emulators. It's no shocking decision...
The Gate Keeper said:
IF the intellectual property of the games themselves could be done without a legal storm occurring. So for example, if someone makes a gameboy emulator for windows phone (which i've seen an image of on some of the other sites), MS would be happy to put the emulator up if the games themselves could be transferred legally. This would mean that Nintendo would need to approve of what is happening and get their cut... they wouldn't ever allow it as it takes away from their devices and profits. So that is why MS doesn't allow the emulators. It's no shocking decision...
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Emulators are completely legal.
Games can also be transferred legally, although that is not MS's responsibility.
No 3rd parties need to approve.
The decision is shocking from two points of view. Firstly, legitimate software is being banned. Secondly, it is a strategic mistake as Microsoft does not have an interest in Nintendo's profits. Microsoft has an interest in creating secure platforms, but why should it hurt its own users in order to secure other companies' platforms?
i never said emulators were illegal. i made the argument that games couldn't be transferred legally. this is backed by there being no actual means except via some online process. how would you propose it can be done legally? without it being abused by pirates? if you can answer this using current technologies available to windows phone, then you can trumpt my argument as well as MS's stance on it.
I'm not sure if MS have an interest or not in Nintendo's profits, but what does xbox on a windows phone speak of then... it's a handheld gaming device, like a nintendo DS is. So maybe they are? i'm not sure.
Furthermore, you just validated my point... "creating secure platforms", this also means stopping a legal storm for themselves and any developers that put their stuff on the platform.
I know it's very Apple like of an argument, and MS is quite liberal with it (e.g. torrent controllers are allowed in WP marketplace, but not iTunes marketplace), but there is a point where they have to say no.
Basically, until you can provide a means to actually legally do it, without piracy being able to subvert this (which is pretty much impossible because you can download the ROMs anyways... and then make a claim that you legally own the game, when you just downloaded the ROM), my argument which is MS's stance, is valid.
The Gate Keeper said:
i never said emulators were illegal. i made the argument that games couldn't be transferred legally. this is backed by there being no actual means except via some online process. how would you propose it can be done legally? without it being abused by pirates? if you can answer this using current technologies available to windows phone, then you can trumpt my argument as well as MS's stance on it.
I'm not sure if MS have an interest or not in Nintendo's profits, but what does xbox on a windows phone speak of then... it's a handheld gaming device, like a nintendo DS is. So maybe they are? i'm not sure.
Furthermore, you just validated my point... "creating secure platforms", this also means stopping a legal storm for themselves and any developers that put their stuff on the platform.
I know it's very Apple like of an argument, and MS is quite liberal with it (e.g. torrent controllers are allowed in WP marketplace, but not iTunes marketplace), but there is a point where they have to say no.
Basically, until you can provide a means to actually legally do it, without piracy being able to subvert this (which is pretty much impossible because you can download the ROMs anyways... and then make a claim that you legally own the game, when you just downloaded the ROM), my argument which is MS's stance, is valid.
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It is legal to download the ROM if you own the game, so that is a legal way of doing it.
For instance, I own like 50 NES games, I actually have the games in my closet, so it would be perfectly legal for me to download a SMB rom onto my WP7 phone and run it via an emulator.
orangekid said:
It is legal to download the ROM if you own the game, so that is a legal way of doing it.
For instance, I own like 50 NES games, I actually have the games in my closet, so it would be perfectly legal for me to download a SMB rom onto my WP7 phone and run it via an emulator.
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Whilst you own the games and therefore are legally about to, that still doesn't respond to my point...
Also, that still doesn't provide a method for how to do it legally for those that do not have the games? you can make the claim and aye i believe you do own those games, but there are plenty who a) want to play those games and are happy to pay for it, OR b) want to play those games and don't want to play for it because they could download it illegally (piracy). as i said... provide an theoretical way using today's technologies available to Windows Phone to transfer the ROMs legally without piracy overrunning it, and you can null and void my argument and MS stance, if not, then it's still stands.
The Gate Keeper said:
i never said emulators were illegal.
...
Furthermore, you just validated my point... "creating secure platforms", this also means stopping a legal storm for themselves and any developers that put their stuff on the platform.
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Emulators are legal, hosting emulators is legal.
Doing legal things doesn't create "legal storms".
i made the argument that games couldn't be transferred legally. this is backed by there being no actual means except via some online process. how would you propose it can be done legally?
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Take a game, extract the ROM ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROM_image ), then you have it on your computer. Since WP7 is still short on basic features, the emulator software needs to sync the ROM on the computer with its internal storage.
I'm not sure if MS have an interest or not in Nintendo's profits, but what does xbox on a windows phone speak of then... it's a handheld gaming device, like a nintendo DS is. So maybe they are? i'm not sure.
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If I buy a Nintendo product, the revenue does not magically go to microsoft via xbox on windows phone. Xbox on windows phone is not a mechanism for microsoft to hack into Nintendo's profits. You have some conspiracy theory?
Furthermore, you just validated my point... "creating secure platforms", this also means stopping a legal storm for themselves and any developers that put their stuff on the platform.
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What?
Basically, until you can provide a means to actually legally do it, without piracy being able to subvert this (which is pretty much impossible because you can download the ROMs anyways... and then make a claim that you legally own the game, when you just downloaded the ROM), my argument which is MS's stance, is valid.
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Microsoft is prohibiting legal software on its marketplace.
It has no reason for doing so because it is not harming its ecosystem. Emulators would not make its current platforms less secure, unless they emulate those platforms which is not feasible. Maybe it would hurt competitors a bit. If the market is uncollusive, it shouldn't care.
you seem to miss my point... it isn't the emulator themselves, it's the games. and yes i know you can get the ROMs off a proper game fine, but i'm talking about the many that abuse it and just download the ROM in general without actually paying for the game. that is what causes a legal storm, not the emulator themselves... merely googling a game with the word ROM after it will lead you to many places that upload the ROMs. That is the part which is pretty much impossible for MS to stop. do you see my point now?
A proposed solution would be for the emulator developer to house the roms on a site, and people would sign into the site using an account (windows live in this case), and they could purchase the right to download/use the rom. but then, what if you own the game? you don't want to have to purchase it again, so how about uploading your own rom? which opens up propsed solution to piracy as well... but even in terms of purchasing the use of the rom, the manufacturers/publishers of the game would need to be involved as i'm sure they'll just sue the developer for doing it illegally.
EMULATOR = LEGAL
TRANSFER OF ROM IN A LEGAL WAY = VERY DIFFICULT...
anyways, back on point...
ycavan and CSMR have it right, it's doable but very difficult. In pretty much all cases it would be better for the originally developer to redo their program for windows phone 7, especially if they made it in C#.NET or VB.NET as these languages are supported in Windows Phone 7.
The Gate Keeper said:
you seem to miss my point... it isn't the emulator themselves, it's the games. and yes i know you can get the ROMs off a proper game fine, but i'm talking about the many that abuse it and just download the ROM in general without actually paying for the game. that is what causes a legal storm, not the emulator themselves... merely googling a game with the word ROM after it will lead you to many places that upload the ROMs. That is the part which is pretty much impossible for MS to stop. do you see my point now?
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Microsoft isn't legally responsible for this. It also has no interest in stopping people from downloading old ROMs illegally.
EMULATOR = LEGAL
TRANSFER OF ROM IN A LEGAL WAY = VERY DIFFICULT...
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Hosting an emulator is legal. Not taking deliberate action to block an emulator is legal. That's Microsoft's part in this.
Doesn't seem to be a problem in other markets.
vetvito said:
Doesn't seem to be a problem in other markets.
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very true, I have a hard time believing that MS is any more ethical than Google
Game emulators are banned because their sole purpose is to execute illegal ROMs. There's no valid use case and therefore not allowed. (And yes, I verified this.)
WithinRafael said:
Game emulators are banned because their sole purpose is to execute illegal ROMs. There's no valid use case and therefore not allowed. (And yes, I verified this.)
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the thing is though is that that's not true, in fact it's false.
It IS legal to play ROMs that you own on an emulator, therefore it is not the "sole purpose" to play illegal games. I actually own like 50 NES games and play Dr, Mario, contra, and super techmo bowl on my HD2 regularly when I want to kill some time.
so whomever you verified this was full of ****.
orangekid said:
the thing is though is that that's not true, in fact it's false.
It IS legal to play ROMs that you own on an emulator, therefore it is not the "sole purpose" to play illegal games. I actually own like 50 NES games and play Dr, Mario, contra, and super techmo bowl on my HD2 regularly when I want to kill some time.
so whomever you verified this was full of ****.
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http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#download_rom
There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.
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brummiesteven said:
http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#download_rom
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This is a biased source. Even that only refers to downloading from the internet, not extracting it yourself.
Point to a single person who has been convicted or penalized in any way for having a rom (or any other intellectual property of any sort) he owns "physically" also on his pc.
well in australia customs have stopped several large shipments of the R4. i know it's not directly related to roms on a person's PC, but it does show that the use of ROMs in general are not liked.
i could say that i have the game, extracted the rom and want to put it on an R4, but it appears that the R4 units are illegal, and nintendo have taken R4 distributors to court and won. so this clearly shows that nintendo's stance isn't just a biased one but one backed by the australian court system... source: http://www.itnews.com.au/News/167490,nintendo-wins-lawsuit-over-r4-mod-chip-piracy.aspx
edit: wouldn't this put MS in the exact same position as the R4 distributors?
CSMR said:
This is a biased source. Even that only refers to downloading from the internet, not extracting it yourself.
Point to a single person who has been convicted or penalized in any way for having a rom (or any other intellectual property of any sort) he owns "physically" also on his pc.
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It doesn't matter weather anyone had been penalised for it or not. It's still illegal.
Nobody got caught using blank VHS tapes to record off the TV but they still wouldn't be permitted on eBay.
I want emulators as much as the next guy but at least I can understand both sides.
orangekid said:
the thing is though is that that's not true, in fact it's false.
It IS legal to play ROMs that you own on an emulator, therefore it is not the "sole purpose" to play illegal games. I actually own like 50 NES games and play Dr, Mario, contra, and super techmo bowl on my HD2 regularly when I want to kill some time.
so whomever you verified this was full of ****.
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It is not legal. I understand you were fooled by the common myth, like a lot of us were, but it's not legal. You are not entitled to a free digital copy of the game you purchase. And you're not entitled to a "backup" because the original medium (i.e. the hardware cartridge) can't be overwritten or destroyed (over time or by accident) -- see Atari, Inc. v. JS&A Group, Inc.
There are people fighting this, e.g. arguing about fair use, but that's how it stands right now. You don't have to like Microsoft's decision, but you should at least understand it.
This very topic came up in our ChevronWP7 & Microsoft meeting. We all agreed there's no legitimate use case for allowing console emulators on Windows Phone 7.
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Go to
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This really effect everyone of you.
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Necessity of restaurant mobile apps.
There are number of benefits of developing a restaurant mobile apps for business owners. From a couple of years, holistic mobility solutions including restaurant mobility solutions really a make sense for online business.
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Kindchef- Innovative
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Hello,
I would like to understand how free social mobile applications make money?
Take for exemple Tinder: it is worth millions of dollars, the designer of the app has made millions, but how since the app is free? I do not see any ad when using the app.
Thanks!
It doesn't.
Investors can be quite patient. They want a business model to grow first and find a revenue stream later.
Google for "how does Tinder make money" and you'll see a few articles on this.
Mr.Koala is right - for the most part they don't. Even some extremely popular tools valued at millions (or billions) have never made a dime. Ideally, someone will be able to retroactively monetize the property, which is what the valuation is based on - potential monetization. However, the cynics among us will point out that certain historic economic bubbles have been burst based on the misplaced hope of future monetization.
Google itself originally was free service. Once you have user base you can always add paid functions.
when they collect big user base it is possible to sell ads and other users information for 3'th parties
And then you have mobile ads on top of that... But like said before, it's usually the investors that pay all the money.