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So there, I started a thread, hope you all happy to be here and quits polluting the ROM thread with rants and anxieties. Just trying to accomodate and vents the air a lil bit here, so please don't take everything too seriously either.
Let one by one speak their own piece of mind, since I can sense it's more than just the waiting that bothers some of you, sounds like something has quite off-course for quite some time, the tip of iceberg is getting larger for some reasons.
So let's chitchat here, maybe it would help many if they can speak their feelings and thinkings. I dunno.
My intention is only neutral, Garmin is a friend of mine, but not for too long I must admit. Yet I cannot agree that some are directing their feelings towards him alone. This is a big community, and we're supposed to collaborate and be helpful to each other with minimum prejudices. If one is considered wrong,it's our job to rectify things in positive and constructive manners.
So be it. Speak up. Mind your language though, we're adult here.
I would like the Mod to close this thread once the waiting is over. Thanks for your kind attention all. Cheers!
schizo said:
So there, I started a thread, hope you all happy to be here and quits polluting the ROM thread with rants and anxieties. Just trying to accomodate and vents the air a lil bit here, so please don't take everything too seriously either.
Let one by one speak their own piece of mind, since I can sense it's more than just the waiting that bothers some of you, sounds like something has quite off-course for quite some time, the tip of iceberg is getting larger for some reasons.
So let's chitchat here, maybe it would help many if they can speak their feelings and thinkings. I dunno.
My intention is only neutral, Garmin is a friend of mine, but not for too long I must admit. Yet I cannot agree that some are directing their feelings towards him alone. This is a big community, and we're supposed to collaborate and be helpful to each other with minimum prejudices. If one is considered wrong,it's our job to rectify things in positive and constructive manners.
So be it. Speak up. Mind your language though, we're adult here.
I would like the Mod to close this thread once the waiting is over. Thanks for your kind attention all. Cheers!
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This is completly useless................
Yikes... I he came already... and annoyed so much. Poor my friend Garmin...
Yeah, maybe this is useless, and I'm making fool out of me.
Okay, case closed, but one victim down............. a talented one....
schizo said:
Yikes... I he came already... and annoyed so much. Poor my friend Garmin...
Yeah, maybe this is useless, and I'm making fool out of me.
Okay, case closed, but one victim down............. a talented one....
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Schizo, its not about Garmin, I just love Garmin's work. Its not about foolish.
Its just completly useless thread here...
kristoff_sz said:
Schizo, its not about Garmin, I just love Garmin's work. Its not about foolish.
Its just completly useless thread here...
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Not a completely useless thread, just in the wrong location. Word choice is important. Maybe consider some words that are not as harsh. I understand your point; however, the meaning gets lost sometimes because people take the strong words to mean that you are attacking them, even when you are not meaning to be
Hail Schizo,
Wonderful thought, my friend.
Maybe all chefs should start a deletable announcing thread and release the rom in a separate thread. Upon which the announce thread could then be deleted.
Then again, maybe chefs shouldn't announce at all until they are actually ready to release. Keeping the number of threads down.
Either way, both easier editing of "redundant threads" or preventing them all together, would definitely enhance the readability of this forum.
Anyone else? Please voice your thoughts here.
Reflections
Don't feel bad towards me, I'm used to strong arguments. Please feel bad for Garmin, at least we must the least do something for him, which we failed, and now I'm afraid of losing him.
If only:
1. I (or someone else) started this thread sooner, before the original one became so polluted,which sparked the fire0 in the end. I remember this has been done before
2. People are growing up and be more patient. Cuz patience is a virtue (Skat sez, u're da man!)
3. Mods are being more proactive so when Garmin came he didn't have to see all the mess. But hey, they're busy and don't want to be labeled as dictator either. It's us who should behave in the first place
4. Garmin is not so talented that many are so anxious waiting for his new creation. On which, I hardly found it's his fault either...
Oh well, oh well, I can only hope that he will get a grip on himself and didn't turn his back to us. My hope also goes for other chefs too, that they all be given more patience and big heart to face all of us, little kiddies.
In my opinion, too many "kids" and not enough "adults" on these forums! The ROMS are FREE. If you're miserable about life, go see a shrink, cos i can guarantee no-one here is qualified to help you with that. So, if you're HERE, you must be looking to flash your Kaiser or find out how to fix issues with it. For anything else, phone 555-PULL-YOURSELF-TOWARDS-YOURSELF (he says in a cheeky tone)
I agree with Skatdawg. This thread of "chit chat" belongs elsewhere. Not in Kaiser Rom Development. We aren't developing any Roms in this thread, now are we?
hey schizo were you the guy that wanted to unite all noobs....and you were complaining about mistreating noobs...man, if someone did mistreat you,i'm not suprised after seeing posts like this one
and i checked on you....you are a spammer...you have 110 like "the thread is amusing", "i'm learning from all of you,masters", "noobs,let's unite"... and 1000s of useless comments
the whole forum has a point and as i could see you miss it all the way,you just wanted to gain posts and numbers to be.... let's say more respected
man chill out...and be usefull
My only fault that i'm too late, and posted in wrong forum? Just think that the thread sould be near the original thread, and I asked to be deleted anyway.
Someone has requested this thread to be created but I didn't, just because i knew that only seniors can create silly thread without getting bashed. Proven, now that I take the risk, bashed. Hahaha... 'sokay for me, getting used to it though.
Anyway, i dont want to pick a fight, but if u read more carefully I have joined this forum for 15 months now, spend my time only for reading, only post to show some praising and gratifications for some useful items, seldom even raised questions. I just reach 100 posts in recent days. Is that what you called spammer?
Lately i have some ideas for this forum, and they are coming from my own observations . But if many found them silly, 'sokay, at least i only want to speak up. If speaking up considered spamming, no probs, i knew the risk. Called me anyway you like.
My only grief for this forum is only why it always insisted to be All-HTC-Devices forum. I have to live up with it, i think, for the moment.
Please do not reply to this one, let it be buried,or deleted by mod.
-edit- this guy report me as spammer.. so sayonara guys... i'll be banned soon... dang...
OK so i know this is the wrong forum, BUT I came across this and wanted to "bump" it so to speak. This was posted by kyphur in 08 and in a mods sig now. Please read and adhere to the spirit of the post. It is RIGHT ON!!!
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
Maybe you can recommend an alternative site for people who just want the newest tweaks and software.
the idea is not that only developers should be looking at this site, but that this is a place where developers communicate with each other and the beneficiaries of their work. This is not the place for someone to post threads about general questions about how to use or mod their device. This is a place that will develop the capabilities of the android platform if it is allowed. Developers WILL abandon this forum if it becomes a bulletin board or a technical support site.....and if you need a question answered, there are other forums on THIS site to address those.
Agreed 100%. While developing for the Windows mobile, I also got the same thing. I would post a thread and WARN people of a certain things and tell them how to fix it. Then I'd get 30 pages of "geeze, you broke something. how do you fix it?" That gets annoying real fast. I would love it if this forum forced people to take a test before they could post in the development sections... Before that, they should only be able to post in the regular sections.
One thing that really bugs me is the fact that the newbs don't want to search but don't realize that they take OUR time to search FOR them. No one knows everything. Every developer on this site searches and learns. I know that if you put together all the time that I've spent on this site JUST researching and searching, it'd be MONTHS and MONTHS of non-stop, no sleep searching and researching. So why can't the average person search for 2 minutes? Is their time worth more than my time?
/rant - while talking on the phone so it might not make sense...
Pinesal said:
Maybe you can recommend an alternative site for people who just want the newest tweaks and software.
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There are thousands, but essentially all they do is copy stuff off here.
Like the post said, if you just want to root your phone so it can do 'cool stuff' and not give a **** about how the damn thing works then maybe you shouldn't be modding your phone (that wasn't aimed at you btw, just 'people' in general the market place is made up of 99% 'these people' who don't/can't read and it's pretty irritating.)
Agree with the post 100%, fantastic
we sadly are living in the (ME) world
there is such a huge gape beetween the 10-19 generation and 20-29
10-19 generation is living in such an easy world, they never had to blow into their nintendo cassettes , know how heavy a quantum bigfoot is or what RTFM mean's
You said it, this is in the wrong forum.
You're not an admin and although you can spend your time here (and pretty much all of your posts) reporting out-of-place threads, you're still not an admin.
People always wonder into communities and it always takes a while to learn the way things work. Mickey is doing a good job on closing and moving threads that are unrelated to development.
With that said...
Reported.
Agreed. It's really, really, really, really getting to me. I wish OP's had semi-moderator power. They could at least delete all necessary posts and ban that user - if required- for a certain amount of time from their thread only.
jubeh said:
You said it, this is in the wrong forum.
You're not an admin and although you can spend your time here (and pretty much all of your posts) reporting out-of-place threads, you're still not an admin.
People always wonder into communities and it always takes a while to learn the way things work. Mickey is doing a good job on closing and moving threads that are unrelated to development.
With that said...
Reported.
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ughh, no i'm not an admin, and no almost all my posts, or the majority, or a half are reported threads, but i do try to help out the mods when i can. they are not on all forums at all times and can use the help, and they have said as much.
Oh thank you thank you! People here should want to understand why thing the work as they work. Not just want their phones to look cool.
As it you wouldnt know it, i have been with xda for years well since the titan came out. before that i was modding an ipaq and of course the old palms. everyonce in awhile i lose interest and move on only to come back when i have something new(major a.d.d). i do write java as well as c and even c++(so on) i typically find this place useful to try stuff out and even set up my own custom rom just for me. i dont post because i can google. while i have many of my own questions i would like answered i simply dont ask most of the time(such as using micro kernels and modding app2sd to make the os have two options sd in or out. however the problem is not the generations or age difference or anything like that. its social systems outside of xda. posting a reply used to mean an answer or something useful. now its normal to simply post "great job". thats nice and all but maybe instead of complaining about it we should come up with a new system that improves xda. like a sorting system or sub thread system and set up catagorys for our replys. like thumbs up would be for the "good job". i know its hard to keep everyone happy but this is a forum first, a forum has design problems when you get the number of people xda has. use advanced search it helps a lot. a sorting system with requirements for certain catagorys would help devs. its not easy modding and getting it right and you cant do it alone. xda is the help even if its not your phone sometimes others have solutions too. such as winmo users putting android on their phones(yes i did it too my old titan for fun). things i learned and other devs learn can help us and vice versa. i have yet to find bad technology only poorly thought out ideas that could have been. which is why we mod.
p.s. wtf is up with palm and blackberry ads all the time.
Most of those kids just want the answer or fix in the next 3min. with perfect steps or a patch that supposedly will fix and hack their device,after that they´ll never show up.
All they want is to show off without bothering to read.
I totaly understand. I do feel sometimes that certain devs do get a bit annoyed with people who just want to fix the phone and not understand. I'm not linux or coding wiz. But whe I got here in may I was one of the people who just wanted me phone to be better than urs. I still have that to some extent but I have developed more of a "how and what is causeing this issue" attitude. I try to contribute as best as I can. Helping out over at q&a as best as I can. I enjoy xda and without my days would be more boring than what the are now. I dunno I guess I'm just rambling. Bottom line is I have tried to correct my attitude toward modding. Hell I even post my email so users can drop a line if they need help.
i am 20 and i fondly remember blowing into my nes super nes and genesis games.
i am pretty new to XDA. when i first found this site all i wanted was a quick fix. now i am getting more intrested in the actual dev aspect. i want to be able to create my own rom eventualy. yes i do find myself asking stupid questions and getting some foul responses but in my opinion no question is a stupid one. only the one not asked. yes alot of people just want a fix but there are new users who want to learn. like me. so i appreciate the help i have recieved from most members. and i alwasy appoligise for my stupidity. so dont get down on all noobs because alot of us want to learn and the only way to is to ask.
saprano614 said:
i am pretty new to XDA. when i first found this site all i wanted was a quick fix. now i am getting more intrested in the actual dev aspect. i want to be able to create my own rom eventualy. yes i do find myself asking stupid questions and getting some foul responses but in my opinion no question is a stupid one. only the one not asked. yes alot of people just want a fix but there are new users who want to learn. like me. so i appreciate the help i have recieved from most members. and i alwasy appoligise for my stupidity. so dont get down on all noobs because alot of us want to learn and the only way to is to ask.
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nobody is getting down on noobs. ONLY the site users who FAIL to post questions and general comments in the correct forum
jaaronmoody said:
nobody is getting down on noobs. ONLY the site users who FAIL to post questions and general comments in the correct forum
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Just want to make a statement befor someone did.
I thank you for this post. I came to this forum a long time ago I have learned quite a bit and appreciate everything that is done here. There are very skillful people that are on here and I wish I had the amount of skill then thesemodders, hackers, developers etc... have I keep my mouth shut unless i feel there is some thing that i know how to answer, i have never complained about a single rom i simply research what can be done to change for fix it, all answers rely in a search somewhere either here or google. I just wish other people would do the same then we would be able to prevent a 300+ page threads where only about 25 pages are worth anything.
look at the amount of posts from someone who knows they are barley able to contrubute(but do what he can) and been here this long. compared to people who have been here dont have much to contribute but love to post everything that comes to thier minds.
Join Date
22nd October 2006
Total Posts
89
samygent said:
we sadly are living in the (ME) world
there is such a huge gape beetween the 10-19 generation and 20-29
10-19 generation is living in such an easy world, they never had to blow into their nintendo cassettes , know how heavy a quantum bigfoot is or what RTFM mean's
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Click to collapse
HEY!
im 18 and clearly remember blowing into those damn games to make them work. but when they worked, so much fun i still think theyre better than the crappy xbox and ps3 games of today... but thats just me. lol
pleeease yall! let's keep THIS thread on topic! LOL!!
I have to say to all of you that I apologize for any offending outbursts lately, and especially towards the moderators there. I have come to the realization that with a forum of such massive size, that it has to be absolutely hard to try to keep it organized, and I do believe that they may be trying to do a little too much, it's all for the best interest in the long run.
So, this is my formal apology and I would also like to let all of you know that I have requested to be a moderator just for our Hero section, to ease the burden and give you guys a break, as well as for the best cause, which is to help keep what's left of our community, a community, and help rebuild what is being destroyed.
I'm sure some will have their objections and some will support me, but please, can we just keep this thread clean so it's not polluted like all the others? I would appreciate that.
Ill support you but i thought most wanted toast to be a mod from a thread i read tonight.
Is this like an election?
its not that I dont support you I actually think your a pretty cool guy. but I think that there are others that have kept a level head through out everything (at least publicly) that may be a little better for the position if one is to be given.
not the mods have made it very clear that this is not an election but there are a lot of people just expressing their opinion on the matter.
wtphoto said:
its not that I dont support you I actually think your a pretty cool guy. but I think that there are others that have kept a level head through out everything (at least publicly) that may be a little better for the position if one is to be given.
not the mods have made it very clear that this is not an election but there are a lot of people just expressing their opinion on the matter.
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maybe its best we keep people who don't have loads of followers out of a moderating position. People tend to play favorites because they have power.
What's that one phrase someone coined? I don't play favorites, I hate everyone equally?
I actually modified it from its original verbiage, but you get the point.
jerry43812 said:
I have to say to all of you that I apologize for any offending outbursts lately, and especially towards the moderators there. I have come to the realization that with a forum of such massive size, that it has to be absolutely hard to try to keep it organized, and I do believe that they may be trying to do a little too much, it's all for the best interest in the long run.
So, this is my formal apology and I would also like to let all of you know that I have requested to be a moderator just for our Hero section, to ease the burden and give you guys a break, as well as for the best cause, which is to help keep what's left of our community, a community, and help rebuild what is being destroyed.
I'm sure some will have their objections and some will support me, but please, can we just keep this thread clean so it's not polluted like all the others? I would appreciate that.
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Well, as I read this, I feel like we are all coming to an understanding of what needs to happen around here. Since I am aware that I was one of the targets of your outbursts (big-headed Clinton), I think that your apology more than suffices. As someone mentioned in another thread, let by gones be by gones (I don't even know if I spelled that correctly )
The idea of having sub forum specific mods is being considered at this point and we might see some changes in the very near future regarding this.
Again, Jerry I feel like we got off with the wrong foot (even though the ban thread was not directed towards you), but since you stepped up to the plate and are apologizing to all the members, you are ok in my book
Don't mean to be a pain, but I do have one little request to ask you. From now on, please watch your language as well. You have been dropping the f-bomb like crazy in your last few posts (not this one here though) and it is against Rule #2 (cursing is not allowed). If you are asking to become a mod, you have to lead by example
Thank you for your sincerity...
egzthunder1
egzthunder1 said:
Well, as I read this, I feel like we are all coming to an understanding of what needs to happen around here. Since I am aware that I was one of the targets of your outbursts (big-headed Clinton), I think that your apology more than suffices. As someone mentioned in another thread, let by gones be by gones (I don't even know if I spelled that correctly )
The idea of having sub forum specific mods is being considered at this point and we might see some changes in the very near future regarding this.
Again, Jerry I feel like we got off with the wrong foot (even though the ban thread was not directed towards you), but since you stepped up to the plate and are apologizing to all the members, you are ok in my book
Don't mean to be a pain, but I do have one little request to ask you. From now on, please watch your language as well. You have been dropping the f-bomb like crazy in your last few posts (not this one here though) and it is against Rule #2 (cursing is not allowed). If you are asking to become a mod, you have to lead by example
Thank you for your sincerity...
egzthunder1
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I have admitted my shortcomings and apologize for them, and I do have to say in personal defense that I was very upset at the current state of our community and I am pushing hard to be able to change the direction we are heading. The current state is very discouraging to both new and old members alike, and if I can change it, I will. Let me prove it.
I've been a loyalist to the SL i9003 forum, From the day the threads went up to when we were grouped under the Galaxy S section as a sub base, Honestly despite moving onto greener pastures the SL i9003 has always been my first choice in the android department, hence why I still keep my SLi9003 and why I would spend as much as it takes to keep it alive than any other higher tier class phones.
First, this thread means no threat, but ofcourse, this is General section and anything goes, The moderators have been doing a splendid job, and if anything what surprises me the most is the activity----in a Legacy & Low Activity Devices section, but a few things have irked me.
I have stood around in the Hillbeast thread and side with Dhiru's and both are what's "Hot" or what's keeping thing's alive here, in a place where development has met it's scarcity. I agree the moderators have done their job properly in keeping things in line where patience runs short considering both developers (Or might I recognize just one- Hey it's the truth, monkey see, monkey do) depend on each other's work to keep the phone in it's tip top shape, but why has the moderation been so strict?
If anything this is the Legacy & Low Activity Devices and we have been shot down from once a standard recognized phone, to the abyss of low tier phones, I would agree there is alot of noob questions being asked, and alot of ruckus about the recent events, but aren't we, the community to decide and voice our opinions out? I would agree the noob questions/statements need to be rubbed off from the thread but I feel the manner of erasing certain posts and thread has gone a bit---overboard and I feel this thread would meet it's match soon. Again, I mean no disrespect to the fine moderators who have done their job properly. I just feel someone had to state this out.
And why? A small share, I was told recently I had been featured on XDA and I didn't even know it (GTab 10.1) so I decided to Google myself, upon doing so, I had seen my threads been offlinked, copy pasted from the GT-i9003 section into other forums, usually I'd ignore this but I noticed most of them are scared to ask or post because of the strict moderation that goes around that too on a Legacy & Low Activity Devices section. Most of them require the tutorial guide in order to move forward to dhiru's ROM because everyone knows if you screw up while flashing a firmware, you end up having a screwed phone not worth having a "blessing" on. I feel the crucial part gets erased, if anything most developers need to know the feedback, improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
This has just been going on for a while, and I feel I needed to say this, perhaps most of the community would agree with me on this.
Good job once again to the moderators. With all due respect.
thats really true ....
well said brother !!!
Hope Mods doesn't delete this topic also !!!
nicely said ! if it wasnt u, i would have posted such ! because things do seem to get out of hand ! before you kno it most of the important posts are deleted without the concerned developers reading it!
shriomman said:
nicely said ! if it wasnt u, i would have posted such ! because things do seem to get out of hand ! before you kno it most of the important posts are deleted without the concerned developers reading it!
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I feel the crucial part gets erased, if anything most developers need to know the feedback, improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
Misledz said:
I feel the crucial part gets erased, if anything most developers need to know the feedback, improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
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Ya especially feedback by senior member for hillbeast & not stupid feedback by stupid noobs who have recently joined this forum (who dont know history of this fotum).
@ misledz
Well said brother
@OP .. or anyone else ... care to explain all this in a more of layman's term. Just for literarily inept people like me.
What exactly happened? What was posted and then removed?
Only then I might be able to participate in this debate.
Flame me for my opinions but not for my questions.
Hetalk said:
@OP .. or anyone else ... care to explain all this in a more of layman's term. Just for literarily inept people like me.
What exactly happened? What was posted and then removed?
Only then I might be able to participate in this debate.
Flame me for my opinions but not for my questions.
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More or less when we placed our expectations on HB we had hoped there would be more of a response than ignorance. Instead the posts got deleted, thread got cleaned and such.
@krazzy Wow I didn't think id' see you here too
^^ Now I see what exactly you're saying.
Even I felt that after months(weeks if you say so) of inactivity for a much awaited and critical development, asking for a ETA(disguised or not) shouldn't be considered a taboo/bane.
People (current senior members) knew(anticipated) this was critical to further development for this device, and decided to donate for a device to get a willing (note this word) and experienced developer to help in this project.
For new users , before posting anything, please understand that lack of development on this front is taking a toll on the very few developers we have for this device. I personally know a couple of devs, who could have helped in this development, if it really happened, who have moved on for greener pastures.
I repeat, these seniors who are (unnecessarily?) asking for ETAs aren't asking after a week from initial announcement/donation.
This is just my opinion, as I felt obliged to post it.
I agree with you:
Improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
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But it is also true that most of the time things are not done the way they should be. I'll use as an example Hillbeast's Kernel 3.x thread too:
Since the beginning, hillbeast stated users should use [Q/A] thread for inquiries and different stuff instead of the development thread, but people continued posting questions in that thread. At first, hillbeast answered almost every question; then, people started asking for ETA and such annoying things, and that's something we could not allow. Finally, moderators appeared and cleaned the whole thread, and now they keep it 'cleaned', also deleting questions not directly related with kernel 3.x development, which at first were more or less tolerated.
To sum up, the ones who worsened the situation were we, people who don't understand the current problems developers are facing, and that led to moderators deleting posts of people just asking questions because they are noobs or they want to know what's going on.
I know it because I've been in this forum for a year and a half (I am not a developer nor a contributor, so I try to keep quiet and just press thanks or give some feedback, that's why I only have a few posts), and i've been reading that thread regularly, at least once a day, since the first post.
I am not blaming anybody, I just think that the way moderators behave has its own reasons...
As we say in Spain, "Al final pagan justos por pecadores", that means something like: "In the end, pay righteous people because of sinners" (sorry for the translation, that's the only way I came up to express it.
Cheers!
@matapollos that's going as my status for the day ! And that has so much truth to it, I've been watching the HB thread ever since it started. Seen the people who took the initiative to help him but a developer is only as strong as the community that favors him, If anything HB should have kept his word, the community had kept theirs on the phone. It just feels---wrong? Yes you will help and answer but there's a saying in english, All bark and no bite. Actions should match what was preached.
As I just woke up and haven't had any coffee, I am not going to do anything with this yet until I have a chance to go through it properly.
OK, gotta run off to work, but here is something.
Misledz said:
I've been a loyalist to the SL i9003 forum, From the day the threads went up to when we were grouped under the Galaxy S section as a sub base, Honestly despite moving onto greener pastures the SL i9003 has always been my first choice in the android department, hence why I still keep my SLi9003 and why I would spend as much as it takes to keep it alive than any other higher tier class phones.
First, this thread means no threat, but ofcourse, this is General section and anything goes, The moderators have been doing a splendid job, and if anything what surprises me the most is the activity----in a Legacy & Low Activity Devices section,
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Thanks.
Misledz said:
but a few things have irked me.
I have stood around in the Hillbeast thread and side with Dhiru's and both are what's "Hot" or what's keeping thing's alive here, in a place where development has met it's scarcity. I agree the moderators have done their job properly in keeping things in line where patience runs short considering both developers (Or might I recognize just one- Hey it's the truth, monkey see, monkey do) depend on each other's work to keep the phone in it's tip top shape, but why has the moderation been so strict?
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I assure you that I am taking actions based on reports. I do not own a Galaxy SL so I am not here other than for mod purposes.
Misledz said:
If anything this is the Legacy & Low Activity Devices and we have been shot down from once a standard recognized phone, to the abyss of low tier phones, I would agree there is alot of noob questions being asked, and alot of ruckus about the recent events, but aren't we, the community to decide and voice our opinions out? I would agree the noob questions/statements need to be rubbed off from the thread but I feel the manner of erasing certain posts and thread has gone a bit---overboard and I feel this thread would meet it's match soon. Again, I mean no disrespect to the fine moderators who have done their job properly. I just feel someone had to state this out.
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I am taking actions based on reports entered by the community members here. Since I do not own a Galaxy SL I am not a member of any of the factions here.
Misledz said:
And why? A small share, I was told recently I had been featured on XDA and I didn't even know it (GTab 10.1) so I decided to Google myself, upon doing so, I had seen my threads been offlinked, copy pasted from the GT-i9003 section into other forums, usually I'd ignore this but I noticed most of them are scared to ask or post because of the strict moderation that goes around that too on a Legacy & Low Activity Devices section. Most of them require the tutorial guide in order to move forward to dhiru's ROM because everyone knows if you screw up while flashing a firmware, you end up having a screwed phone not worth having a "blessing" on. I feel the crucial part gets erased, if anything most developers need to know the feedback, improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
This has just been going on for a while, and I feel I needed to say this, perhaps most of the community would agree with me on this.
Good job once again to the moderators. With all due respect.
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People scared to ask questions? Really? That would be news based on the number of questions that keep getting asked.
Can you give specific examples of your threads which have been copied to other device forums please?
As far as thread cleaning/deleting posts, I can promise that I have not deleted one single bit of "crucial" information.
I have to go for now, but I will continue this later. I want to work with you guys, but I also am required to do certain things for reasons you are not aware of. I am happy to explain them wherever possible.
Thank you,
mf2112
Misledz said:
@matapollos that's going as my status for the day ! And that has so much truth to it, I've been watching the HB thread ever since it started. Seen the people who took the initiative to help him but a developer is only as strong as the community that favors him, If anything HB should have kept his word, the community had kept theirs on the phone. It just feels---wrong? Yes you will help and answer but there's a saying in english, All bark and no bite. Actions should match what was preached.
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Well said Misledz.
My own recognize developer list have only one name still, trying to get it more, however, they still yet to be right.
i have once donate a SL to a XDA member(or Developer?), and now he's still not yet recognized by public (or XDA?) what is going on here at SL forum?
for the MOD, I think they are fair enough, rules is rules, it mean to be follow, but...still...... anyone missing Jay here ?:victory:
Another trend I've noticed, is the rise of the "unofficial" moderators.
People "spamming" on almost every post.
Best example would be a newbie on XDA asking for something like an ETA, and the damn post has 20+ replies saying Donot Ask for ETAs.
This was just an example.
I see that there are more of such posts, than that of regular queries.
This makes checking threads sometimes very much irritating. Opening a thread only to find out just another reply moderating previous posts.
Misledz said:
More or less when we placed our expectations on HB we had hoped there would be more of a response than ignorance. Instead the posts got deleted, thread got cleaned and such.
@krazzy Wow I didn't think id' see you here too
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brother i have always visit i9003 section when i visit xda
moderation shd be strict. so as to keep only usefull n informative posts. else we all will be lost in huge amt of posts.
SaeberTooth4U said:
moderation shd be strict. so as to keep only usefull n informative posts. else we all will be lost in huge amt of posts.
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I have to agree with you.
This forum is for developers. Testers and noobs are here as visitors and if they are looking around for information, they should search very hard before distracting the major contributors. Testing helps the devs, but harassment doesn't. Testing doesn't mean complaining about battery life. That is what spoiled children do. Thinking about yourself. People who have questions will always find the answer to their questions by searching. If there is no answer anywhere to be found (extremely rare), start a new thread in the General Section. It's simple.
I'm neither a developer nor a programmer. But I know my place and just say what's necessary and search very very hard before asking a question. At least I try. I think about the developers that use this forum to work on phones and don't appreciate it when someone who obviously has no interest in development comes and makes demands as though a ROM or a MOD or any feature or bug is the responsibility of these devs.
I find it crazy when I see non-devs here with hundreds of posts.
It would make much more sense for everyone to keep quiet and read. No need to comment on every thread you go through. ESPECIALLY if you're not developing or solving a problem.
samisax said:
I have to agree with you.
This forum is for developers. Testers and noobs are here as visitors and if they are looking around for information.
I'm neither a developer nor a programmer. But I know my place and just say what's necessary and search very very hard before asking a question. At least I try. I think about the developers that use this forum to work on phones and don't appreciate it when someone who obviously has no interest in development comes and makes demands as though a ROM or a MOD or any feature or bug is the responsibility of these devs.
I find it crazy when I see non-devs here with hundreds of posts.
It would make much more sense for everyone to keep quiet and read. No need to comment on every thread you go through. ESPECIALLY if you're not developing or solving a problem.
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samisax, you have my sympathy! You have written exactly what I was thinking. It annoys me when I see people demanding things to developers, as if they were their employers...
At least in this thread I've realised there's still people with good manners that knows when they may ask for something from others or not.
I'm really really relieved. Thank you guys
problem
OK, home from work now. First, I am not ever going to infract or punish someone for expressing their honest opinion, as long as it is done in a civil fashion, so I definitely appreciate a good discussion.
To respond to this thread in a general fashion...I see vague complaints over a great many forums about mods doing this or that, or not doing this or that, but rarely any specific instances. We do have a thread in this forum: Moderators to assist should anyone want to bring up specific instances of problems. That means links so we can go there and fix the problems. Please feel free to use that thread. Please feel free to (continue to) use the report button as several dozen of you already have. I have several pages full of reports from this forum. Please feel free to PM me. Some of you have done this, I have received PMs from a number of members with requested actions of me. People have posted requests in the thread above as well. In fact that is really where this thread should have gone, but you don't really have specific examples, so ok.
So people here are reporting things which I am taking actions per the guidelines I have been issued by the Moderator Committee. "Strict" is all relative. I thought I had been strict but fair so far. According to other mods, including jayharper08, I have been too lenient. I am not sure how much "modding" the Galaxy users here want but I can state that the answer is not leaning towards "lenient" based on the number and types of reports I am getting. If people here didn't care, they wouldn't bother to report thread after thread, post after post.
Without any specific examples I can't really give you specific answers as to why I took whatever action I did, but I can tell you that my motivations for working many many MANY hours on XDA that have led to being a moderator were definitely not to close or move threads or posts from other users in other forums I had no real time or interest for given that I never owned or ever will own any of them, or to have to explain repeatedly that it is NOT OK to distribute paid applications here on XDA as this is a community of developers, some of which do make their living from writing software, and that piracy is stealing in exactly the same fashion as if it had been lifted off the store shelf and walked out with it, or to reluctantly hand out infractions to users after PMs and warnings proved not to be sufficient. We don't like to do this. Not one mod I have talked to enjoys having to discipline members, but the alternative is far worse. We are not going to let XDA go downhill like many other sites have done. There are community rules and the rules will be followed, for the benefit of all in the community.
Now, to answer this thread with a very specific example which in all honesty seems to the the *real* issue underlying most other issues in this forum.
Hillbeast.
First, can someone point me to a thread or something written down which says exactly what hillbeast was supposed to do and when? I don't want to prejudge the situation, but all I know so far is that several phones were purchased with pooled monies, one of which went to hillbeast, one went to dhiru (I think, not sure on this one), and one went to another (unrecognized?) dev that I can''t recall the name of who seems to have skipped. If there is something written down that gives me very clear guidelines on what was given and what was expected it would be very helpful here, instead of vague complaints and ETA demands, which frankly I did erase without a second thought.
I see several posts here in this thread concerned that I might have erased something important. I promise to every one of you that I deleted nothing that would remotely qualify as "important" or more to the point "relevant" to a dev thread. If there was anything even slightly technical or related in those posts, I would keep it and erase only the unrelated parts. I deleted the initial offending posts which were reported, then I removed the followup piling on posts, some of which went overboard and were also reported. When arguments start, both sides posts are going to be deleted. No one is more right from all evidence I have seen so far. Since I do not own this device and am not in any of the factions here, I am not taking any sides, but I will defend any members from unwarranted attacks or unsubstantiated claims.
I am not sure how many people here have even the faintest understanding of how real development works. Too many people I think have a completely wrong understanding based on ROMs they are seeing from "devs" that are nothing more than zip jockeys. Frankly, I doubt there is one person in 10,000 here on XDA that can really understand what hillbeast is trying to do. Without benefit of assistance from the manufacturer.
In fact, the manufacturer doesn't even want people doing this at all since it might cause them not buy the newest model phone.
So what I need here is the contract that was agreed to by hillbeast and the other devs and the members here. I can't go by anything vague or that isn't stipulated by 100% of the involved parties. I wasn't here when this deal was set up, but I promise to carefully evaluate everything and I will act fairly.
Thank you,
mf2112
EDIT: To be clear, I am not saying I am going to take an action here. My gut feeling as someone who has worked around software development for more than 10 years is that many of you guys are simply being too impatient. Especially given that hillbeast (despite the irony of his username ) is not an employee of anyone here to the best of my knowledge.
As far as how people want me to mod...well, I am not jayharper08 so I am not going to do things like he did. I can tell you that I don't want to run the forum. I don't want to go through all the threads and posts and find "modly" things to do in my not-so-spare time. When people report things then I come check it out and figure out what to do. Since people here report a lot, I am here more often, which is fine with me but some people may not appreciate. BTW, your thread was not reported, I found it on my own. :victory:
The above being said, I am human and I can make mistakes. If anyone has an issue then talk to me. If I did something wrong I will correct it. If you disagree with something I have done then let me know why (civilly) and I will explain to the best of my ability. You have no reason to fear talking to me in public or private. I became a mod to help people here, not harm them.
Mf2112,
Firstly I would like to thank you for taking the time to sit and read through this and place your points on the table along with your opinions. In a way the thread wasn't that hard to find (Considering the Triangle and the word "Moderator" brings people to see what's being said, pretty nifty tactic I learned over at the GNexus side LOL) as much as I would like to press thanks, the ever so wonderful system has permitted me from my daily 8 limit. And I would do so because this was more or less the response I least expected, in the sense, it's a good response, infact an unbiased one but touches all areas, like a pedophile checking his new victim.
Before I start this, I have no ill intention towards HB, but the whole ETA in the HB thread turned sour only because the agreement between developer (I would hold my word on the developer part) and community was made in exchange. Yes his help was sought out because we had believed that XDA is a place where people share their expertise. Do what is agreed upon (with a fair deal ofcourse) and we don't place any high expectations or hopes in such. But when it's been half a year, that's when things start to roll considering with each passing month, another flagship Class A/B phone get's launched, which is the initial reason why the ETA's went up in flames (But ofcourse this only applies to who ACTUALLY can do something with it). I would have agreed if HB had stated what he lacked, and why he was unable to provide so, he had done initially in the beginning, but when it was more of "Speak first, we listen, then show us what you have done" he turned all silent, which turned tides.
There were 4 phones donated, DoomLord, Fuss132, dhiru, codeworkx. Each of them presented something within a short time of the device they were given, I mean such is the expectation isn't it? I know pooling isn't a big deal considering its $5-$10 each person, but if the community was aware that there were going to be no results that would emerge then they would have donated to XDA instead and gotten a pretty gold star beside their name. I don't know if I'm being too emotional over $5-$10's, but when you climb up that harsh economy ladder from a third world country like most of us do, you suddenly get that feel of how important/valuable $1 is. (Consider the fact that some would find people crazy to spend over RS/PHP 20k over a phone where that would pay up for 1 semester of a College student)
I completely agree however of the mindless babble of those who submit no contribution but have high # of posts. It's insane. But with XDA having 5+ million online user's daily, It's hard to determine who helps and who doesn't. Which is why I've mentioned you have done a splendid job in clean sweeping the arena. Keep up the great work and sorry if this has gone a bit indepth.
Sorry guys.... As another dev shuts up shop due to users/noobs that don't read opening posts or explain the bugs they having.
Custom roms will soon be a thing of the pass.
I for one knows how much time/effort goes into making a rom. It's no easy task. The amount of flashing/bricking to bring roms to us.
All the roms on xda are free but if this continues then devs may start charging for their roms (maybe not on xda but who knows) Wouldn't blame them really though.
All users need to understand if we don't have devs on Android. Then basically we will end up like iPhone users that are locked down. We should be grateful for all devs that brings us root without it then no custom roms would exist.
Do the Android community wanna end up like iPhone? I doubt it very much.
Respect the devs
Read the first post, search the thread! All answers are there. This excuse "I searched but couldn't find anything" is BS basically.
We will lose them all eventually.
Rant over.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2
Post of the month!
ETA:
As much as I agree, this is flogging a dead horse
Until you can change the impatient 'fix it now, I refuse to read the first post post anyway, that bits not important' mentality of the average user, nothing will change
I agree. most users in this community are selfish. most likely they demand fix this please, when's the next update, port it please, comparing their work to another's hard work, flaming and so on.
they neither try to read back the thread or use the search function. or has no clue with the forum rules. it's a sad thing but yeah it's here. it's really a sad thing but there's nothing we can do unless they learn to respect the free work devs have put into their work. people should realize devs are doing it on their spare time on their own will to share to people for users to enjoy for free.
Agree
I was hoping to find a thread like this and I totally agree with you.
But maybe that is not the end cause I think that the devs will still love what they do just that they try not to address certain people.
As great as the idea of XDA is and as much as I'm happy that this awesome forum exists..I think that it should be talked/discussed about the forum rules!!!
Example:
How can it be possible that you become senior member with 100 posts?
This leads to flaming in some cases and is no way near related on how helpful you are
The process in being allowed to post
While some are annoyed that they can't discuss right after logging the first time....for others it is way to simple to join and flame.
Rules enforcement
We all know that some posts we make are not related to the devices...and I think that this shouldn't be seen as an issue in general...XDA to me is also a communication page as long as the dev doesn't have a problem with it... BUT being disrespectful to the work you receive for free and claiming bugs where there are reported to be none and most important refusing to read should be looked after more often.
At last I really don't want to criticize XDA or what it stands for cause I still love it... I just hope it stays what it was created for and won't loose the devs which are doing so many awesome things for us because some people just can't follow the rules and be thankful for what they get
Maybe some new rules when people sign up?like private reference or something?but then again that would drop Ads revenue of this site drasticly
Unfortunately it's fact that most of the users are never happy enough with the things they get FOR FREE. They don't see the hard work of the devs behind a custom ROM. They only see what they have on their phones, and if there's something they don't like, they complain and blame the dev. And the fact that many users don't read instructions or simple informations gives the devs more work. They have to watch their thread 24 hours a day and always be friendly and helpful. If that's not given, some users become rude. My favorite thread was closed this morning because of such stupidity. The dev pulls his heart and soul in his project and gets more negative than positive feedback. That's not fair.
@4aces: you know what thread I'm talking about, i think you agree, it's a sad sad day for us.
Exactly @speedwayfan75 that why I had to voice my rant over that thread. And @DSA same for your thread too shut due to some users. Black box was great used on s3 then got discontinued on s4
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2
So you are announcing the end of the custom ROMs, because of some impatient noobs, who have always been around and probably always will be? Are you for real?
centavar said:
So you are announcing the end of the custom ROMs, because of some impatient noobs, who have always been around and probably always will be? Are you for real?
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Did I day that :banghead:
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2
In my opinion it's also the fault of XDA in general.
Just take a look in the Q&A section. So many question that have been anwsered before, so many people that just won't read.
In my opinion every thread that doesn't have a decent opening post should be closed untill they put some effort in it. But the more users XDA gets, the more money they make. So the skill level will only keep lowering and then some other decent website opens and replaces XDA.
Users just get to much space to do anything they want. I'm not blaming the mods in any way, because I think they are doing a good job. People higher up the ladder should take action or XDA will go down true their own succes.
I agree that there are many noob who do not read the post before replying.
But every boby was a noob before no?
just give them a chance to become good Android users...
PS: sorry for my english, i'am french !
You can't stop anyone from posting questions without searching first, or asking for OTAs. The only thing the devs can do is to ignore these people.
worktorest said:
You can't stop anyone from posting questions without searching first, or asking for OTAs. The only thing the devs can do is to ignore these people.
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Its not as simple as that
If I create a development thread and include all relevant info in the first post, which is then populated with nothing but questions that are answered in the first post it makes it incredibly hard to find any proper posts which could contribute to the rom or for me to help a genuine user having issues
I created a specific q&a thread for these types of posts and everyone ignored it and filled up my dev thread instead
XDA has a chronic problem with users atm, I can't explain it or understand it, but I'm seeing more and more devs close their threads because of the users populating it
Have a read of the gravitybox thread in the xposed section...its unbelievable..
ETA: just had a read of the echorom thread...check @friedrich420 last posts in there..I feel for him as I know exactly how he feels
Users should be understanding about this. I think XDA should double the number of moderators so that useless posts are deleted on regular basis. For developers; they should create a third post on their ROM topic, that has a big list of all FAQs in bold.
worktorest said:
You can't stop anyone from posting questions without searching first, or asking for OTAs. The only thing the devs can do is to ignore these people.
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I agree. I'm not sure if Devs will start charging, to be honest I'd probably pay, But anyways.... I work in Service Management for a Global IT company, and this behaviour is pretty standard when you are dealing with this many users..
I for one respond ONCE and the ignore users that make demands or unreasonable requests or are just plain offensive or rude.
What makes it worse though is the number of more experienced users that actually reply to these people in the thread. Honestly is some threads they have doubled the useless post count! Now, before I get flamed, I have done it myself because its just plain RUDE!!! But it doesn't take every 'good' user to flame back or stick up for the dev or say not to ask for ETAs! Just once will do and then ignore them!
If you ask any service professional or SixSigma bod, they will say 'focus on the good users and ignore the bad'.
Please please though reading multiple posts from good users responding to bad users is just as annoying as having to read the original bad post.
Peace Out People!
DSA said:
Its not as simple as that
If I create a development thread and include all relevant info in the first post, which is then populated with nothing but questions that are answered in the first post it makes it incredibly hard to find any proper posts which could contribute to the rom or for me to help a genuine user having issues
I created a specific q&a thread for these types of posts and everyone ignored it and filled up my dev thread instead
XDA has a chronic problem with users atm, I can't explain it or understand it, but I'm seeing more and more devs close their threads because of the users populating it
Have a read of the gravitybox thread in the xposed section...its unbelievable..
ETA: just had a read of the echorom thread...check @friedrich420 last posts in there..I feel for him as I know exactly how he feels
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I thank you from the bottom of my heart!! I know if anyone can understand is you my man!! I create a basic custom rom at best (and kernels lately). You create the most awesome rom i have ever used!! Way way over my head!! And you get the same treatment?? Its really not worth it!! People (im not generalizing because there are some EXCEPTIONAL USERS who deserve recognition) dont get (or dont want to get) what it takes to create a masterpiece like yours for example...
Thank you and my wish is that we will see you back!!
But one thing is for sure, something has to change...
It seems that people value something only if they have to pay for it... Im not say this should happen here but something that protects us (the creators/ providers of roms. kernels, recoveries, mods, apps etc etc) for the **** we get should be put in place... Some kind of mechanism that protects spamming and protects flaming... Something with more success than the current measures we have in place now...
Also THANK YOU TO EVERYONE FOR YOUR SUPPORT and opening this thread is a good thing!!
It needs to stay up and we need to make it into a "brainstorming pool" of ways to make sure devs who do this for free (therefore they do it because they love sharing) are protected...
How to stop stupid questions?
Firstly if devs want to be paid then good for them. Whatever they get it wont be enough. This might leave some users feeling empowered though - they would feel they were owed answers as they had paid "where is my promised bug fix you lazy asshole!". And we don't want that. So how about a testers thread for each ROM were the dev controls who can post and a general thread for each ROM were you have to pay to post ($0.20). It would encourage only real questions after peole have searched.
finbaar said:
How to stop stupid questions?
Firstly if devs want to be paid then good for them. Whatever they get it wont be enough. This might leave some users feeling empowered though - they would feel they were owed answers as they had paid "where is my promised bug fix you lazy asshole!". And we don't want that. So how about a testers thread for each ROM were the dev controls who can post and a general thread for each ROM were you have to pay to post ($0.20). It would encourage only real questions after peole have searched.
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You are so so right about that!!
Thats why i would never want to sell anything here..
Can you imagine what they would do to me???
I mean i get abuse from offering free stuff for so many devices... can you imagine making money for it? People would think im their slave...
goodgood hahahahhahah
stevendeb25 said:
Sorry guys.... As another dev shuts up shop due to users/noobs that don't read opening posts or explain the bugs they having.
Custom roms will soon be a thing of the pass.
I for one knows how much time/effort goes into making a rom. It's no easy task. The amount of flashing/bricking to bring roms to us.
All the roms on xda are free but if this continues then devs may start charging for their roms (maybe not on xda but who knows) Wouldn't blame them really though.
All users need to understand if we don't have devs on Android. Then basically we will end up like iPhone users that are locked down. We should be grateful for all devs that brings us root without it then no custom roms would exist.
Do the Android community wanna end up like iPhone? I doubt it very much.
Respect the devs
Read the first post, search the thread! All answers are there. This excuse "I searched but couldn't find anything" is BS basically.
We will lose them all eventually.
Rant over.
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2
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goodgood verygood
friedrich420 said:
You are so so right about that!!
Thats why i would never want to sell anything here..
Can you imagine what they would do to me???
I mean i get abuse from offering free stuff for so many devices... can you imagine making money for it? People would think im their slave...
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Gasp! I donated $1!!!!! You mean I don't own you????