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I am seeing more and more dis-respectful replies to newbies then ever before, and it is getting old, all this does is run off potential new comers to this site who might be the next great cooker and spreads a not so good rep about this site
at the same time I see some mods have be respectful to others in there sigs. I think this should become policy across the forum period and those that are rude and disrespectful in their reply should get a vacation to let them know this is not to be tolerated IMO
This site is about growth and interest in these toys of ours, not about ripping newbies who may ask a question that maybe have been asked many times over, so what, why not just post a link to the search and to the Wiki and say welcome to the forums , instead of bashing them? It would leave a better taste in the newbs mouths and they might become a contributor in the future.
Also think about this, just how many of you cookers have something in your sig asking for a cup of coffee ? or Donate to XDA or Donations graciously accepted. Well if a newbie is made to feel welcomed and comfortable here , They are more then likely going leave you a little something.
Me , If I notice a rom cooker being rude, they are not very likely going to get anything from me even if they had something great and useful.
I just replied to a newbie that asked a simple question, but not before someone posted a B.S. reply, I instead answered it with something useful and promoted the search engine at the same time
This did two things, first the newbies was made to feel welcomed and also if someone was to search the same question, they would find a reasonable answer.
BTW B.S. replies just screw up the search results forcing newbies just ask questions instead of finding answers.
Flame away if you want or become part of the solution .
i agree,
there are times that newbs do need help. some of those who i have pointed in the right direction have tried to search, but either search the wrong thing or don't know what they are looking for.
it does work two ways and some of the mods and senior members are to be commended for their help. ( i can think of about 10 folks who go out of their way to help as many as possible and never rip a newb)
those who are helped are more likely to help others.
I find it often takes longer to explain how to use the search facility properly to yield useable results than it takes to answer the specific question, but there is no excuse for rude replies, if you don't like what you see simply move on rather than posting an offensive reply - Mike
Here is a good example of what I am talking about,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=403829
This reply by kspirit did nothing to help this user ,
No , nothing like that runs on the tilt..
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.
its these kind of responses that need to be curtailed.
Even though a mod did respond , he/she did nothing regarding the above users response. All this does is give the impression that this behavior is condoned .
I am not knocking the Moderator (I do find him to be very helpful) but they do have a huge influence on how others act on this site, and by not informing this above user that these types of replies are not helpful or uncalled for) they are giving the impression that it is okay.
Mods & Admin , what do you all think ? Am I off track here ?
Just wanted to add this:
If the mods were to take the time to edit the titles like this one " New AT&T Tilt Phone - Help" to something like this...Will software like HTC Home, Mobile Shell, Pocket Informant work on both the tilt & 8525?. or something along those lines.....
This would help with search engine results, Yea its abit more work for the mods to do this but it will help greatly in producing more viable search results .
Just a thought...
i think what drives some ppl to be rude is the fact that the ppl who decided to ask a repeated question were told that they have to search for an existing answer before asking a new question, and that they decided not to do that and just post a new one, i think both are mistaken here, and the one with the question brought it on themselves. i really don't like rude answers, but!
AthenaLod said:
i think what drives some ppl to be rude is the fact that the ppl who decided to ask a repeated question were told that they have to search for an existing answer before asking a new question, and that they decided not to do that and just post a new one, i think both are mistaken here, and the one with the question brought it on themselves. i really don't like rude answers, but!
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Ahh do you search much ? this user did not ask the same question twice....
and there is no excuse for being rude, and so what if they had ? a simple link to the Wiki would be a very easy way to deal with it, and a welcome to the forum would get much better results.
why would I want to donate or promote this site in any form if all I got is ripped on ? hmmm
Like Mike has posted,
if you don't like what you see simply move on rather than posting an offensive reply - Mike
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This would yield better results .
by "told" i meant that for example in the kaiser forum, the only sticky there is titled "**BEFORE YOU POST START HERE**" and it says "Read and search before posting. Reply to an existing thread before creating a new thread. Redundant threads will be closed." so, if somebody decides that he/she wants to just ignore this, he/she brought it on themselves. i don't do bad language, or encourage it, but, sometimes some ppl can be really so lazy to even do a search
Just my personal opinion....
I've only been here for a few months and I have to say, I've seen more useless threads then ever before! Now, don't get me wrong, I love to help, and do all the time, but at some point, you see a junior on their first post asking something like, "How do I uninstall an app?", or "How do I turn the phone off?" So at some point of seeing these threads, someone will be a bit frustrated and point them to the search and wiki fetaures located on the top bar instead of a full answer. I fully understand your point, but like I said, these members who join just for a simple answer then after 10 minutes ask why nobody is helping can aggrivate all of us users who come here for new information on a daily basis. Especially when they start a thread, get an answer, and never return.
Look here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=404065
Now in this post, this user was looking for a specific dialer, and of course it's impoosible to search for an image, but I did help. Actually at first, I was a bit mad at the fact they posted the image, but didn't ask in the thread they got the photo from, then realized the image wasn't from here. But after I saw that, I tried to give some info on it, but I can't spend time looking for something they want, but I can help, so I did.
I think I'm done typing , but I'll say this, when I first joined, actually being my first forum, I had a bunch of questions, I didn't feel a need to post a thread for one simple question. I actually spent about a week after work searching and going through a bunch of pages looking for info, and I found a lot!
Also, a suggestion, I asked this in the SPAM thread, how about putting a block on junior users poting new threads? It would prevent SPAM and these simple question threads.
It seems that mods and Admin are strangely silent regarding this topic......wonder why..
I don't think they aren't responding for any unknown reason, this topic has been discussed so many times, there is no interest in tackling this issue anymore.
Just wanted to say that F2504x4 put the problem very articulately and I totally agree with him. Pointing out a mistake (such as not using the search facility) need not be done in a rude and dismissive way.
I will just remind us that we were all noobs one day, and also that some people are more technically minded than others. What may seem to us a simple and trivial question is obviously not so for the one asking it.
TheChampJT said:
I don't think they aren't responding for any unknown reason, this topic has been discussed so many times, there is no interest in tackling this issue anymore.
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They should be taking a interest in this.....if they are becoming numb to it , then they need to take a hard look at why they are a moderator, Sorry if this sounds harsh . Moderators are the leaders that others look to for guidance, they help set the tone of the community.
This is a great site, with a lot of great talent , but it will not take long before it becomes over shadowed with a darker side.
Continued growth is key to any forum and community , and running off new comers with not help with that.
Fact is you will always have newbs ignoring stickies and search engines , nothing will ever change that.
All this site can do is maintain a positive atmosphere , and continuing education to those that join .
So i ask again , what say you Admin and mods ?
Thank you pedmond for this , very well put.
I will just remind us that we were all noobs one day, and also that some people are more technically minded than others. What may seem to us a simple and trivial question is obviously not so for the one asking it.
Yesterday 07:49 PM
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F2504x4 said:
It seems that mods and Admin are strangely silent regarding this topic......wonder why..
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Don't really think the issue is with Mods and Admin. I do see a lot of evidence of them cleaning up threads if they're getting out of hand and sorting out users that are really getting obnoxious. But the problem seems to be that certain people feel their post count is a license to have a go at the newer members. And certain new members seem to think the world is their private helpdesk and that the purpose of these forums is to instantly deal with their every need. Well in any large group you'll always get those that are unpleasant to deal with - that's life. There are just as many, maybe more, who're a real pleasure to deal with and try their best to help. I think if new members read the forum rules and were prepared to lurk a bit before posting, then they'd quickly get an idea of what types of questions to ask and how to get help.
So while I personally totally agree with your views on decent behaviour etc I don't think its an issue to get wound up about. If you can filter out some of the fluff, this site is still the best resource for our phones by far.
(But I've only got about 80 posts, so maybe I'll change my mind when I hit 100! )
What are the Mods/Admins supposed to do? Ban every user?
I often tell people to search for things when they have one post, and have a very stupid question with a blatant answer. When they do that, they don't deserve to be treated with a great amount of respect.
When someone who has evidently searched around, and has clearly tried to solve their own problems and then as a last resort asks for help, I'm far more inclined to be generous with my time, and try to help them.
Some people are obnoxious and post without searching at all, but the admins/mods can't go and ban people because they were once an idiot.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2360488&posted=1#post2360488
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
l3v5y said:
What are the Mods/Admins supposed to do? Ban every user?
I often tell people to search for things when they have one post, and have a very stupid question with a blatant answer. When they do that, they don't deserve to be treated with a great amount of respect.
When someone who has evidently searched around, and has clearly tried to solve their own problems and then as a last resort asks for help, I'm far more inclined to be generous with my time, and try to help them.
Some people are obnoxious and post without searching at all, but the admins/mods can't go and ban people because they were once an idiot.
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Wow what a way to start off a reply Ban every user ?
I think you should re read what has been stated, I did not hint or say ban anyone..but if that is what it takes to effect a change then maybe it should be considered but it should be directed at those that are creating a un-friendly and less then helpful place . IMO
First off I have no problem with someone being told to search, its how they are being told and some of the un-called for comments that are becoming more and more common and is the real problem, go read the example I posted earlier.
what do you consider a worthy response in this thread ? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=404065
As to the stupid questions , Idiots and respect, ahhh I thinks its way past beer thirty .
swanlm said:
. But the problem seems to be that certain people feel their post count is a license to have a go at the newer members.
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while I agree with a lot of what you said, In the example I gave , its even the low post count members that are posting these less then helpful responses, so that is telling me that this a is trend that is spreading and the bad thing is that a mod even replied in the thread, and did nothing about the response given, they only quoted part of my reply about searching.... ( I am still wondering why...)
Btw I only started this thread after a lot of reading and seeing this trend become more common place.
It's not about being against Noobies...
Too many come here from other sites for the wrong reason. Many of the questions that get jumped, closed & merged really should have been asked at the AT&T or other carrier support forums.
I'll quote this post of mine:
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
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Good post and very worthwhile reading kyphur,
and I understand clearly why it was written.
Just be aware of this trend and its long term results...
Btw I have walked in Mod shoes , and understand the inner workings of forums, and it is no easy task managing a community.
Thanks for posting that.
This is a new phone with new users coming in here every day. I've seen he same one or two people here not answer a single question, they just say wrong forum or hey let me google that for you.
Way to foster a growing community.
I think everyone that replies should encourage people to search for themselves and put things in the proper forums.
I know it falls on deaf ears as most people want to be spoon fed - it is just to much work to read 30 pages of a thread to understand how something works - they just want the short answer. Then they complain when they miss a step and break something.
I agree. It seems like they just started recently. Ive had my phone since launch and it hasnt been like this. It does get annoying to see dumb questions but most on here its our first android phone ( backflip and aria didnt really cut it).
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I have just decided if you are a thread Nazi I will block you. I have 2 on my ignore list right now.
gunnyman said:
I have just decided if you are a thread Nazi I will block you. I have 2 on my ignore list right now.
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If you don't know how to block people, let me know and and I'll google it for you ; )
J/k, don't block me.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
ashoooo said:
If you don't know how to block people, let me know and and I'll google it for you ; )
J/k, don't block me.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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LOL 10chars
gunnyman said:
This is a new phone with new users coming in here every day. I've seen he same one or two people here not answer a single question, they just say wrong forum or hey let me google that for you.
Way to foster a growing community.
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I do notice the large amount of people that seem to ask questions that have already been covered or start cloned threads that do not need repeated. You could view it as overly eager people who want to jump into the community before getting to know it or as people to lazy to do a search and/or read some existing threads.
Either way, I always felt ignoring the post seems to be a better option than making a negative comment. I think you are correct in saying this does not "foster a growing community."
Do keep in mind that it is sometimes hard to search for the correct answer or how to word a question when you are new to a subject. Back in my first few weeks of XDA on my old tilt, I felt a bit bombarded by new terminology and confusing tutorials. More experienced members should be able to determine if an OP is partialy ignorant or just plain lazy. I say when in doubt, ignore it.
Good post, Shovelhead. I agree with your comments.
I think another factor is that just now many people are just being introduced to smart phones. And that in turn probably is causing many new forum users to come on board. I mean new to forums, period. So they may not know the methods, and protocols expected.
It's interesting that I see in many forums that some people will expend more effort griping or castigating someone than it would take to just answer the question, or ignore the post/thread if it is one that doesn't interest them.
I actually am not familiar with the ignore option. I presumed that would just ignore if they sent you PM messages.
Can someone Google that for me?
ewingr said:
Good post, Shovelhead. I agree with your comments.
I actually am not familiar with the ignore option. I presumed that would just ignore if they sent you PM messages.
Can someone Google that for me?
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In efforts to prevent confusion, I was referring to a personal ability to ignore. I have not used any ignore features through the forum. I am currently ignorant to these features.
Shovelhead84 said:
In efforts to prevent confusion, I was referring to a personal ability to ignore. I have not used any ignore features through the forum. I am currently ignorant to these features.
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I put them on ignore so I don't say something banworthy to them. It's the best form of self moderation for me.
I understand your point, but having the developement section tampered with unnecessary threads hampers its readability. And to many it is fundamental to keep up with multiple threads in there.
I'm not the kind of person that goes around bashing new users, but I did notice an increase in such threads lately, and although "thread nazis" can be just as annoying, don't forget there's no personal gain for them in it: they're just trying to keep the forum as clean and readable as possible.
I mean, there is a reason to have a Q&A section: using it would actually make it resourceful for newcomers while keeping developement clean.
I actually would say there haven't been many "thread nazis" in the Captivate forums. I read development for the most part and there are MANY questions (hell half of them start with [Q] that have NOTHING to do with development, people just want a question answered for them) that just belong in Q&A.
Most of the people (most, not all) tell people that they are in the wrong section but usually still provide the answer in hopes of letting the thread die. asking how a command works in adb does not count as captivate-specific android development.
it's important to remind people that the development section should be left for DEVELOPING android on the phone or TESTING new developments on the phone (or thinktanks and the occasional request for apps that would have to be dev'd to get functional)
Has anybody tried to use the search since the redesign? All my searches come up with a hundred pages of nothing remotely related to what I searched for, and that's using all combinations of the advanced search. At least for me it's useless now.
This stuff here makes mad:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=752670
Sent from my captivate
In my begginings in this forum I'm ashamed to admit that I acted like one too. But now what I do is when I see an out of place thread I reply very succinctly almost bordering on a terse response and then I suggest the Q&A section.
I then proceed to answer as many questions as I can for 5 min in an effort to make the Q&A section the best it can be and not clutter the rest of the sections.
boborone said:
Has anybody tried to use the search since the redesign? All my searches come up with a hundred pages of nothing remotely related to what I searched for, and that's using all combinations of the advanced search. At least for me it's useless now.
This stuff here makes mad:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=752670
Sent from my captivate
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I find the search function works very well.
As for not liking references to google - I don't see the problem - OK, maybe you were looking for more specific information, but like all things, likes of forums is suggestive. So why not use google, search for Android forums, then pick the ones you like.
So many questions are answered by using google but no one tries that, so unless someone says "I have tried google, and only find X - but I want Y" then a response that says "try Google" is not out of line.
My $0.02 has always been this ...
We were all noobs once. When I was a noob I had enough sense to spend time and effort rooting around XDA to learn about my new (at the time) device before I started to ask questions.
Whether it's here, or on any other message board in cyberspace, that is the standard level of expectation that the senior members of the forum have. Experienced members want to help people and often spend a lot of time adding their experience to the forum, but they also want the new members to try to help themselves first. When they see someone ask a question that's answered in a 'sticky' at the top of the page or one or two posts below on the first page, it can be amazingly frustrating, and as others have said, it unnecessarily clutters up the forum.
So yes, sometimes people are harsh. Personally, if it at least looks like someone has tried to find and answer but can't figure something out, I'm always happy to help. Those who make their very first XDA post a question that has been asked and answered many times will get a 'search is a beautiful thing' response from me with a link to the post where the answer is. It's a subtle jab, yes, but at the same time the poster gets an answer. It's not meant to be a 'Thread Nazi'.
Hopefully that nudges them down the path of looking first and not expecting to be spoon fed everything, and to the realization that the forum doesn't exist simply to be a place to pop in and ask a question and go. Every time I pick up a new device and move to a new forum I see a ton of this ... one hit wonders that you never see again.
I I don't have a problem with that at all.
But what value does "hey you should have posted that somewhere else dumbass" provide. especially in "Dev"
I mean General is the catch all
Q&A is kind of basic
Themes and Apps are self explanatory.
I see dev section as the "hey I wanna break stuff" department. If the answer to a question could break stuff I say it's a dev question.
I agree with most remarks on here. I know i have been too harsh with post on here. But mainly after i read the same post in different threads. I agree that there are alot of newer members now that are lost in the threads lol. So im glad this thread was made and cast new light for me. Guess i need to be nice and more helpfull.
smokestack76 said:
I agree with most remarks on here. I know i have been too harsh with post on here. But mainly after i read the same post in different threads. I agree that there are alot of newer members now that are lost in the threads lol. So im glad this thread was made and cast new light for me. Guess i need to be nice and more helpfull.
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Well well Smoke seems like once again we are on the same device lol. Ill be working in this forum more closely cleaning things up and trying to help point new users in the right direction.
zelendel said:
Well well Smoke seems like once again we are on the same device lol. Ill be working in this forum more closely cleaning things up and trying to help point new users in the right direction.
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Yes this rocks!!! I guess my talks with a few people worked Glad to see ya here
Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Hello everyone, I'm writing this because lately there has been a lot of turmoil in this section. People are leaving, upset with xda, posting off topic like crazy and showing hostility like I've never seen here before. I really wanna help make this section better as this is my main device and hate seeing it like this. I try and do what I can, delete off topic/flaming posts, move threads to the proper sections and so on but would love some input from the users here to make this section better for everyone. Granted I'm not the only mod here but this will benefit all of us so here's what I'm asking. If you see something you think we can improve on post it here. If a user is rude, flaming and going off topic pm me or another mod here or report it. I will do my best to address anything posted here. Granted I can't do anything about xda rules as they are in place for a reason but I can always bring up suggestions to the other mods and the admins. I really wanna work with everyone here so please suggest away. Off topic posts, flaming, rude comments will not be tolerated in this thread.
Thanks,
Ryan
Ryanmo5 said:
Hello everyone, I'm writing this because lately there has been a lot of turmoil in this section. People are leaving, upset with xda, posting off topic like crazy and showing hostility like I've never seen here before. I really wanna help make this section better as this is my main device and hate seeing it like this. I try and do what I can, delete off topic/flaming posts, move threads to the proper sections and so on but would love some input from the users here to make this section better for everyone. Granted I'm not the only mod here but this will benefit all of us so here's what I'm asking. If you see something you think we can improve on post it here. If a user is rude, flaming and going off topic pm me or another mod here or report it. I will do my best to address anything posted here. Granted I can't do anything about xda rules as they are in place for a reason but I can always bring up suggestions to the other mods and the admins. I really wanna work with everyone here so please suggest away. Off topic posts, flaming, rude comments will not be tolerated in this thread.
Thanks,
Ryan
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I commend you. I could imagine your task at hand is like trying to clean up the streets of St Louis by yourself. It has become anarchy here, just people running their mouth with no consequence. You deleted one of my posts because it became off topic, I was actually happy, because it was deserved.
My only suggestion is consequence. I know it's hard to really "punish" someone over the internet, but any kind of action should be taken to breaking the rules.
Thanks for taking your time just to read post over post, just to see if people are following rules.
Thanks for taking the time to respond! Believe me there will be consequences if people break forum rules and I'm making a personal commitment to be extremely active here and do everything I can to make it better for everyone.
Ryanmo5 said:
Thanks for taking the time to respond! Believe me there will be consequences if people break forum rules and I'm making a personal commitment to be extremely active here and do everything I can to make it better for everyone.
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You're welcome. See you around
I think one of the problems that has gotten worse lately is the way new members are treated. Please see here from today:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1166265
I understand about searching, etc, and repetitive threads, but there is a right way and a wrong way to handle things and too many members here have started acting unacceptably to new members imo. It sets a tone and then the new members act the same way and the problem snowballs on itself and we end up with a forum of everyone being rude to one another.
anyway just my opinion and thanks for your efforts in cleaning things up
One of the biggest problems I have seen around Tbolt forums, is the fact that developers bust their asses for us and MANY people act as if it's a Dev's privilege for us to be using their Roms and what ever else. People should be thankful we get all these nice Roms and themes and what ever else for FREE. The other big problem I see is people not searching I've asked quite a few questions but MANY more have been answered just by using the search feature.
I know we have stickys but I think a big Noob sticky would help cut out some of the mess/easily answered questions.
Old MuckenMire said:
I think one of the problems that has gotten worse lately is the way new members are treated. Please see here from today:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1166265
I understand about searching, etc, and repetitive threads, but there is a right way and a wrong way to handle things and too many members here have started acting unacceptably to new members imo. It sets a tone and then the new members act the same way and the problem snowballs on itself and we end up with a forum of everyone being rude to one another.
anyway just my opinion and thanks for your efforts in cleaning things up
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VERY unacceptable, thanks for pointing out thread it has been cleaned and closed. We were all newbies at one point and those replies are the exact thing I'm trying to rid xda of. Thanks for the help!
ScoobarSTI said:
One of the biggest problems I have seen around Tbolt forums, is the fact that developers bust their asses for us and MANY people act as if it's a Dev's privilege for us to be using their Roms and what ever else. People should be thankful we get all these nice Roms and themes and what ever else for FREE. The other big problem I see is people not searching I've asked quite a few questions but MANY more have been answered just by using the search feature.
I know we have stickys but I think a big Noob sticky would help cut out some of the mess/easily answered questions.
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Sadly that's the way it has always been, there are always those users who are on here to simply tear people down and complain. Maybe its boredom but its something that has always bothered me as well. Not sure there's much anyone can do about it however, unless they are flaming and posting rude comments that's when the mods can do their thing. If enough complaints are reported about certain users then action is also justified so don't be afraid to let us know.
I'm gonna improve the sticky I put up in the dev section to include more info for noobs and see if that helps.
Ryanmo5 said:
VERY unacceptable, thanks for pointing out thread it has been cleaned and closed. We were all newbies at one point and those replies are the exact thing I'm trying to rid xda of. Thanks for the help!
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No problem man, and I'm not trying to rat people out either. I just wanted to show an example of what has been going on. A lot of members here(even me included at times I'm sure) have been acting like this is our forum instead of us all acting like guests here and treating others as guests as well.
It's so hard to clean things up and police them, what one person feels should be asked in a thread for a specific ROM another person feels should be in the "general" or Q&A section.
If I'm having a "general" (ie battery, GPS, etc.) issue after I flash a ROM I'm going to look to that ROM's thread for answers - I find that if I post something in the 'general' forum about a specific ROM I get all kinds of answers from folks running different ROMs or that are not rooted and, while I appreciate the help, I don't think that somebody is as able to help unless they are on that particular s/ware. Isn't battery life and/or GPS a development issue if a lot of people are having that problem? Spin off to a new thread, reduce clutter, and post a link to the thread in the OP. (then you can at least chastise somebody if the info is in the first post which should ALWAYS be read in its entirety).
I think it would be nice if a developer would put in the OP a couple links to specific threads that have been started that are talking about specific issues w/a specific ROM. Right now the CM7 development thread has spawned a couple different troubleshooting threads, but there is no link in the OP to those.
On one of my previous ROMs the OP had all kinds of links to help threads and FAQ, etc.
I also think that the old "if you can't say something nice...." saying should be rule #1 - it would save a LOT of issues when somebody chimes in and says "how do I.....?" and somebody else responds with "why don't you try reading/searching, etc." - why can't they just take the same amount of energy they used typing that snide comment and instead point in a helpful direction?
I understand the frustration, I too get tired of the same Q's being asked over and over again but I've also failed at the "search" on the site and had to have people guide me, especially when it's something I'm new to, like Netflix, etc.
Now I'm just rambling......
ScoobarSTI said:
I know we have stickys but I think a big Noob sticky would help cut out some of the mess/easily answered questions.
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I really doubt it will.
I can see what everyone is saying. I've been involved with Android phones since day one and have been active on several boards for many years now.
I was with T-Mobile for over 15 years and am a Pillar on their boards, so I've spent alot of time there.
I've used XDA for some time now with the G1, G2, Cliq, MyTouch, etc.
When I got the Thunderbolt, I came to this forum and I noticed a very different "air" about this forum as others had pointed out. I found it kinda odd since the phone was so new.
One thing that I did notice was that "moderation" (and I know everyone is busy around here) is not as, for lack of a better word..."swift" around here. On most other boards I am on (and also ran), rules violations were not tolerated and handled very quickly with "Time outs" being given out to minor offenders and outright bans given to major offenders.
That being said, as other have said, unless there is a consequence for an action, the behavior will continue.
Not sure what can be done to help monitor this board better, since I do not know how all of it is handled internally, but I think if there was more of a moderator presence (as in jumping into a thread and posting about staying on topic or watching language, etc). Maybe the "bad boys" will just get tired of not being able to "terroize" anyone anymore and just leave.
Just my two cents.
2 issue's that see on this board (and others) -
1. Anyone that ask a question already posted is immediately called a N00b and slammed on.
2. Just cause someone has low post count they are called N00b (yep happens to me on this one)
It seems that there is no patience by many user's on answering questions (if you don't have kids wait till you do, you will be answering them many times over) why get so flustered cause people ask questions, whether or not they have been answered. Not everyone is a N00b because of low post count (I know I'm not and can hold my own anytime) I also don't act like I know everything either. Some people can't let things go either.. if you don't like it why respond? just ignore it. A little common courtesy goes a long way folks. Also folks asking for things to be fixed ASAP on newly released Roms and refuse to use them until they are or they ***** and complain over and over about the issue. Just a question, do you act like this at home or deal with things like this at home with programs you use? All software has issue's if you think they don't or your the perfect programmer, you don't belong doing this. Even major software and telecom companies have bugs that happen that are not always caught on release. Its normal and if you can do better and want everything perfect, then start programming!
I'm actually planning on creating an introductory FAQ/howto for new users. I've written documentation for new users to Linux in the past and many of the questions parallel. I'm more than happy to help in any way I can
sent from my rooted Thunderbolt with das BAMF 3.0 rc4
admiralspark said:
I'm actually planning on creating an introductory FAQ/howto for new users. I've written documentation for new users to Linux in the past and many of the questions parallel. I'm more than happy to help in any way I can
sent from my rooted Thunderbolt with das BAMF 3.0 rc4
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Feel free to add to it!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1168433
i commend you for this ryan but it's gonna take more than just you to make xda a better place to be. the issue is instead of people just answering questions, they always say "search" .....what a waste.
the other issue is this site seems to be run by the members and not the devs, nobodies hardly on here anymore it seems. it also takes forever for a mod to show up when you report something. now don't get me wrong i love xda for the freedom i have to an extent, i also do not want a police state like android central is. there has got to be a medium somehow.
i wish we could of talked about this earlier, i hate the fact soo many devs have left the tbolt section.
I'm glad to see an effort is being made, it's going to take work from everyone.
Perhaps we could have a subforum for unrooted users? There's a lot of questions where one assumes the person is rooted (because they don't bother to say) or users that aren't rooted are looking at the wrong topics to figure out what is wrong. There's also a lot of flaming between those that root and haven't rooted on the Thunderbolt forums it seems.
For example:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1169292
As a rooted user, this post would just be a waste of space and pretty offtopic. For an unrooted user, you're going to get the obligatory "ORLY???" type posts from rooted users because to those that rooted, this is old news (either because they already got the update ages ago or they changed their boot animation to something custom).
yareally said:
Perhaps we could have a subforum for unrooted users? There's a lot of questions where one assumes the person is rooted (because they don't bother to say) or users that aren't rooted are looking at the wrong topics to figure out what is wrong. There's also a lot of flaming between those that root and haven't rooted on the Thunderbolt forums it seems.
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i dunno if id support that move, the forums can be cluttered enough as it is. if your not rooted at all i have no idea why some of you are on here? this place is for custom rom, mods and themes for rooted users mostly. no offense of course but most users come here too root.
fixxxer2008 said:
i dunno if id support that move, the forums can be cluttered enough as it is. if your not rooted at all i have no idea why some of you are on here? this place is for custom rom, mods and themes for rooted users mostly. no offense of course but most users come here too root.
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I'd say probably 20% that come here don't root. I have no idea why either when they could go to more general forums for android out there that aren't so development/rooting focused. I really don't have much empathy for them when they complain about things being broke/not having fancy new features, but eh, each to their own. They would be better off complaining to the source (verizon) than complaining on here cluttering up the forum, since most of their issues cannot be fixed without doing what the refuse to do.
With that being said, a seperate forum would let them figure stuff out without getting in the way of those that did root.
I've been a loyalist to the SL i9003 forum, From the day the threads went up to when we were grouped under the Galaxy S section as a sub base, Honestly despite moving onto greener pastures the SL i9003 has always been my first choice in the android department, hence why I still keep my SLi9003 and why I would spend as much as it takes to keep it alive than any other higher tier class phones.
First, this thread means no threat, but ofcourse, this is General section and anything goes, The moderators have been doing a splendid job, and if anything what surprises me the most is the activity----in a Legacy & Low Activity Devices section, but a few things have irked me.
I have stood around in the Hillbeast thread and side with Dhiru's and both are what's "Hot" or what's keeping thing's alive here, in a place where development has met it's scarcity. I agree the moderators have done their job properly in keeping things in line where patience runs short considering both developers (Or might I recognize just one- Hey it's the truth, monkey see, monkey do) depend on each other's work to keep the phone in it's tip top shape, but why has the moderation been so strict?
If anything this is the Legacy & Low Activity Devices and we have been shot down from once a standard recognized phone, to the abyss of low tier phones, I would agree there is alot of noob questions being asked, and alot of ruckus about the recent events, but aren't we, the community to decide and voice our opinions out? I would agree the noob questions/statements need to be rubbed off from the thread but I feel the manner of erasing certain posts and thread has gone a bit---overboard and I feel this thread would meet it's match soon. Again, I mean no disrespect to the fine moderators who have done their job properly. I just feel someone had to state this out.
And why? A small share, I was told recently I had been featured on XDA and I didn't even know it (GTab 10.1) so I decided to Google myself, upon doing so, I had seen my threads been offlinked, copy pasted from the GT-i9003 section into other forums, usually I'd ignore this but I noticed most of them are scared to ask or post because of the strict moderation that goes around that too on a Legacy & Low Activity Devices section. Most of them require the tutorial guide in order to move forward to dhiru's ROM because everyone knows if you screw up while flashing a firmware, you end up having a screwed phone not worth having a "blessing" on. I feel the crucial part gets erased, if anything most developers need to know the feedback, improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
This has just been going on for a while, and I feel I needed to say this, perhaps most of the community would agree with me on this.
Good job once again to the moderators. With all due respect.
thats really true ....
well said brother !!!
Hope Mods doesn't delete this topic also !!!
nicely said ! if it wasnt u, i would have posted such ! because things do seem to get out of hand ! before you kno it most of the important posts are deleted without the concerned developers reading it!
shriomman said:
nicely said ! if it wasnt u, i would have posted such ! because things do seem to get out of hand ! before you kno it most of the important posts are deleted without the concerned developers reading it!
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I feel the crucial part gets erased, if anything most developers need to know the feedback, improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
Misledz said:
I feel the crucial part gets erased, if anything most developers need to know the feedback, improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
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Ya especially feedback by senior member for hillbeast & not stupid feedback by stupid noobs who have recently joined this forum (who dont know history of this fotum).
@ misledz
Well said brother
@OP .. or anyone else ... care to explain all this in a more of layman's term. Just for literarily inept people like me.
What exactly happened? What was posted and then removed?
Only then I might be able to participate in this debate.
Flame me for my opinions but not for my questions.
Hetalk said:
@OP .. or anyone else ... care to explain all this in a more of layman's term. Just for literarily inept people like me.
What exactly happened? What was posted and then removed?
Only then I might be able to participate in this debate.
Flame me for my opinions but not for my questions.
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More or less when we placed our expectations on HB we had hoped there would be more of a response than ignorance. Instead the posts got deleted, thread got cleaned and such.
@krazzy Wow I didn't think id' see you here too
^^ Now I see what exactly you're saying.
Even I felt that after months(weeks if you say so) of inactivity for a much awaited and critical development, asking for a ETA(disguised or not) shouldn't be considered a taboo/bane.
People (current senior members) knew(anticipated) this was critical to further development for this device, and decided to donate for a device to get a willing (note this word) and experienced developer to help in this project.
For new users , before posting anything, please understand that lack of development on this front is taking a toll on the very few developers we have for this device. I personally know a couple of devs, who could have helped in this development, if it really happened, who have moved on for greener pastures.
I repeat, these seniors who are (unnecessarily?) asking for ETAs aren't asking after a week from initial announcement/donation.
This is just my opinion, as I felt obliged to post it.
I agree with you:
Improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
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But it is also true that most of the time things are not done the way they should be. I'll use as an example Hillbeast's Kernel 3.x thread too:
Since the beginning, hillbeast stated users should use [Q/A] thread for inquiries and different stuff instead of the development thread, but people continued posting questions in that thread. At first, hillbeast answered almost every question; then, people started asking for ETA and such annoying things, and that's something we could not allow. Finally, moderators appeared and cleaned the whole thread, and now they keep it 'cleaned', also deleting questions not directly related with kernel 3.x development, which at first were more or less tolerated.
To sum up, the ones who worsened the situation were we, people who don't understand the current problems developers are facing, and that led to moderators deleting posts of people just asking questions because they are noobs or they want to know what's going on.
I know it because I've been in this forum for a year and a half (I am not a developer nor a contributor, so I try to keep quiet and just press thanks or give some feedback, that's why I only have a few posts), and i've been reading that thread regularly, at least once a day, since the first post.
I am not blaming anybody, I just think that the way moderators behave has its own reasons...
As we say in Spain, "Al final pagan justos por pecadores", that means something like: "In the end, pay righteous people because of sinners" (sorry for the translation, that's the only way I came up to express it.
Cheers!
@matapollos that's going as my status for the day ! And that has so much truth to it, I've been watching the HB thread ever since it started. Seen the people who took the initiative to help him but a developer is only as strong as the community that favors him, If anything HB should have kept his word, the community had kept theirs on the phone. It just feels---wrong? Yes you will help and answer but there's a saying in english, All bark and no bite. Actions should match what was preached.
As I just woke up and haven't had any coffee, I am not going to do anything with this yet until I have a chance to go through it properly.
OK, gotta run off to work, but here is something.
Misledz said:
I've been a loyalist to the SL i9003 forum, From the day the threads went up to when we were grouped under the Galaxy S section as a sub base, Honestly despite moving onto greener pastures the SL i9003 has always been my first choice in the android department, hence why I still keep my SLi9003 and why I would spend as much as it takes to keep it alive than any other higher tier class phones.
First, this thread means no threat, but ofcourse, this is General section and anything goes, The moderators have been doing a splendid job, and if anything what surprises me the most is the activity----in a Legacy & Low Activity Devices section,
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Thanks.
Misledz said:
but a few things have irked me.
I have stood around in the Hillbeast thread and side with Dhiru's and both are what's "Hot" or what's keeping thing's alive here, in a place where development has met it's scarcity. I agree the moderators have done their job properly in keeping things in line where patience runs short considering both developers (Or might I recognize just one- Hey it's the truth, monkey see, monkey do) depend on each other's work to keep the phone in it's tip top shape, but why has the moderation been so strict?
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I assure you that I am taking actions based on reports. I do not own a Galaxy SL so I am not here other than for mod purposes.
Misledz said:
If anything this is the Legacy & Low Activity Devices and we have been shot down from once a standard recognized phone, to the abyss of low tier phones, I would agree there is alot of noob questions being asked, and alot of ruckus about the recent events, but aren't we, the community to decide and voice our opinions out? I would agree the noob questions/statements need to be rubbed off from the thread but I feel the manner of erasing certain posts and thread has gone a bit---overboard and I feel this thread would meet it's match soon. Again, I mean no disrespect to the fine moderators who have done their job properly. I just feel someone had to state this out.
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I am taking actions based on reports entered by the community members here. Since I do not own a Galaxy SL I am not a member of any of the factions here.
Misledz said:
And why? A small share, I was told recently I had been featured on XDA and I didn't even know it (GTab 10.1) so I decided to Google myself, upon doing so, I had seen my threads been offlinked, copy pasted from the GT-i9003 section into other forums, usually I'd ignore this but I noticed most of them are scared to ask or post because of the strict moderation that goes around that too on a Legacy & Low Activity Devices section. Most of them require the tutorial guide in order to move forward to dhiru's ROM because everyone knows if you screw up while flashing a firmware, you end up having a screwed phone not worth having a "blessing" on. I feel the crucial part gets erased, if anything most developers need to know the feedback, improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
This has just been going on for a while, and I feel I needed to say this, perhaps most of the community would agree with me on this.
Good job once again to the moderators. With all due respect.
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People scared to ask questions? Really? That would be news based on the number of questions that keep getting asked.
Can you give specific examples of your threads which have been copied to other device forums please?
As far as thread cleaning/deleting posts, I can promise that I have not deleted one single bit of "crucial" information.
I have to go for now, but I will continue this later. I want to work with you guys, but I also am required to do certain things for reasons you are not aware of. I am happy to explain them wherever possible.
Thank you,
mf2112
Misledz said:
@matapollos that's going as my status for the day ! And that has so much truth to it, I've been watching the HB thread ever since it started. Seen the people who took the initiative to help him but a developer is only as strong as the community that favors him, If anything HB should have kept his word, the community had kept theirs on the phone. It just feels---wrong? Yes you will help and answer but there's a saying in english, All bark and no bite. Actions should match what was preached.
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Well said Misledz.
My own recognize developer list have only one name still, trying to get it more, however, they still yet to be right.
i have once donate a SL to a XDA member(or Developer?), and now he's still not yet recognized by public (or XDA?) what is going on here at SL forum?
for the MOD, I think they are fair enough, rules is rules, it mean to be follow, but...still...... anyone missing Jay here ?:victory:
Another trend I've noticed, is the rise of the "unofficial" moderators.
People "spamming" on almost every post.
Best example would be a newbie on XDA asking for something like an ETA, and the damn post has 20+ replies saying Donot Ask for ETAs.
This was just an example.
I see that there are more of such posts, than that of regular queries.
This makes checking threads sometimes very much irritating. Opening a thread only to find out just another reply moderating previous posts.
Misledz said:
More or less when we placed our expectations on HB we had hoped there would be more of a response than ignorance. Instead the posts got deleted, thread got cleaned and such.
@krazzy Wow I didn't think id' see you here too
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brother i have always visit i9003 section when i visit xda
moderation shd be strict. so as to keep only usefull n informative posts. else we all will be lost in huge amt of posts.
SaeberTooth4U said:
moderation shd be strict. so as to keep only usefull n informative posts. else we all will be lost in huge amt of posts.
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I have to agree with you.
This forum is for developers. Testers and noobs are here as visitors and if they are looking around for information, they should search very hard before distracting the major contributors. Testing helps the devs, but harassment doesn't. Testing doesn't mean complaining about battery life. That is what spoiled children do. Thinking about yourself. People who have questions will always find the answer to their questions by searching. If there is no answer anywhere to be found (extremely rare), start a new thread in the General Section. It's simple.
I'm neither a developer nor a programmer. But I know my place and just say what's necessary and search very very hard before asking a question. At least I try. I think about the developers that use this forum to work on phones and don't appreciate it when someone who obviously has no interest in development comes and makes demands as though a ROM or a MOD or any feature or bug is the responsibility of these devs.
I find it crazy when I see non-devs here with hundreds of posts.
It would make much more sense for everyone to keep quiet and read. No need to comment on every thread you go through. ESPECIALLY if you're not developing or solving a problem.
samisax said:
I have to agree with you.
This forum is for developers. Testers and noobs are here as visitors and if they are looking around for information.
I'm neither a developer nor a programmer. But I know my place and just say what's necessary and search very very hard before asking a question. At least I try. I think about the developers that use this forum to work on phones and don't appreciate it when someone who obviously has no interest in development comes and makes demands as though a ROM or a MOD or any feature or bug is the responsibility of these devs.
I find it crazy when I see non-devs here with hundreds of posts.
It would make much more sense for everyone to keep quiet and read. No need to comment on every thread you go through. ESPECIALLY if you're not developing or solving a problem.
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samisax, you have my sympathy! You have written exactly what I was thinking. It annoys me when I see people demanding things to developers, as if they were their employers...
At least in this thread I've realised there's still people with good manners that knows when they may ask for something from others or not.
I'm really really relieved. Thank you guys
problem
OK, home from work now. First, I am not ever going to infract or punish someone for expressing their honest opinion, as long as it is done in a civil fashion, so I definitely appreciate a good discussion.
To respond to this thread in a general fashion...I see vague complaints over a great many forums about mods doing this or that, or not doing this or that, but rarely any specific instances. We do have a thread in this forum: Moderators to assist should anyone want to bring up specific instances of problems. That means links so we can go there and fix the problems. Please feel free to use that thread. Please feel free to (continue to) use the report button as several dozen of you already have. I have several pages full of reports from this forum. Please feel free to PM me. Some of you have done this, I have received PMs from a number of members with requested actions of me. People have posted requests in the thread above as well. In fact that is really where this thread should have gone, but you don't really have specific examples, so ok.
So people here are reporting things which I am taking actions per the guidelines I have been issued by the Moderator Committee. "Strict" is all relative. I thought I had been strict but fair so far. According to other mods, including jayharper08, I have been too lenient. I am not sure how much "modding" the Galaxy users here want but I can state that the answer is not leaning towards "lenient" based on the number and types of reports I am getting. If people here didn't care, they wouldn't bother to report thread after thread, post after post.
Without any specific examples I can't really give you specific answers as to why I took whatever action I did, but I can tell you that my motivations for working many many MANY hours on XDA that have led to being a moderator were definitely not to close or move threads or posts from other users in other forums I had no real time or interest for given that I never owned or ever will own any of them, or to have to explain repeatedly that it is NOT OK to distribute paid applications here on XDA as this is a community of developers, some of which do make their living from writing software, and that piracy is stealing in exactly the same fashion as if it had been lifted off the store shelf and walked out with it, or to reluctantly hand out infractions to users after PMs and warnings proved not to be sufficient. We don't like to do this. Not one mod I have talked to enjoys having to discipline members, but the alternative is far worse. We are not going to let XDA go downhill like many other sites have done. There are community rules and the rules will be followed, for the benefit of all in the community.
Now, to answer this thread with a very specific example which in all honesty seems to the the *real* issue underlying most other issues in this forum.
Hillbeast.
First, can someone point me to a thread or something written down which says exactly what hillbeast was supposed to do and when? I don't want to prejudge the situation, but all I know so far is that several phones were purchased with pooled monies, one of which went to hillbeast, one went to dhiru (I think, not sure on this one), and one went to another (unrecognized?) dev that I can''t recall the name of who seems to have skipped. If there is something written down that gives me very clear guidelines on what was given and what was expected it would be very helpful here, instead of vague complaints and ETA demands, which frankly I did erase without a second thought.
I see several posts here in this thread concerned that I might have erased something important. I promise to every one of you that I deleted nothing that would remotely qualify as "important" or more to the point "relevant" to a dev thread. If there was anything even slightly technical or related in those posts, I would keep it and erase only the unrelated parts. I deleted the initial offending posts which were reported, then I removed the followup piling on posts, some of which went overboard and were also reported. When arguments start, both sides posts are going to be deleted. No one is more right from all evidence I have seen so far. Since I do not own this device and am not in any of the factions here, I am not taking any sides, but I will defend any members from unwarranted attacks or unsubstantiated claims.
I am not sure how many people here have even the faintest understanding of how real development works. Too many people I think have a completely wrong understanding based on ROMs they are seeing from "devs" that are nothing more than zip jockeys. Frankly, I doubt there is one person in 10,000 here on XDA that can really understand what hillbeast is trying to do. Without benefit of assistance from the manufacturer.
In fact, the manufacturer doesn't even want people doing this at all since it might cause them not buy the newest model phone.
So what I need here is the contract that was agreed to by hillbeast and the other devs and the members here. I can't go by anything vague or that isn't stipulated by 100% of the involved parties. I wasn't here when this deal was set up, but I promise to carefully evaluate everything and I will act fairly.
Thank you,
mf2112
EDIT: To be clear, I am not saying I am going to take an action here. My gut feeling as someone who has worked around software development for more than 10 years is that many of you guys are simply being too impatient. Especially given that hillbeast (despite the irony of his username ) is not an employee of anyone here to the best of my knowledge.
As far as how people want me to mod...well, I am not jayharper08 so I am not going to do things like he did. I can tell you that I don't want to run the forum. I don't want to go through all the threads and posts and find "modly" things to do in my not-so-spare time. When people report things then I come check it out and figure out what to do. Since people here report a lot, I am here more often, which is fine with me but some people may not appreciate. BTW, your thread was not reported, I found it on my own. :victory:
The above being said, I am human and I can make mistakes. If anyone has an issue then talk to me. If I did something wrong I will correct it. If you disagree with something I have done then let me know why (civilly) and I will explain to the best of my ability. You have no reason to fear talking to me in public or private. I became a mod to help people here, not harm them.
Mf2112,
Firstly I would like to thank you for taking the time to sit and read through this and place your points on the table along with your opinions. In a way the thread wasn't that hard to find (Considering the Triangle and the word "Moderator" brings people to see what's being said, pretty nifty tactic I learned over at the GNexus side LOL) as much as I would like to press thanks, the ever so wonderful system has permitted me from my daily 8 limit. And I would do so because this was more or less the response I least expected, in the sense, it's a good response, infact an unbiased one but touches all areas, like a pedophile checking his new victim.
Before I start this, I have no ill intention towards HB, but the whole ETA in the HB thread turned sour only because the agreement between developer (I would hold my word on the developer part) and community was made in exchange. Yes his help was sought out because we had believed that XDA is a place where people share their expertise. Do what is agreed upon (with a fair deal ofcourse) and we don't place any high expectations or hopes in such. But when it's been half a year, that's when things start to roll considering with each passing month, another flagship Class A/B phone get's launched, which is the initial reason why the ETA's went up in flames (But ofcourse this only applies to who ACTUALLY can do something with it). I would have agreed if HB had stated what he lacked, and why he was unable to provide so, he had done initially in the beginning, but when it was more of "Speak first, we listen, then show us what you have done" he turned all silent, which turned tides.
There were 4 phones donated, DoomLord, Fuss132, dhiru, codeworkx. Each of them presented something within a short time of the device they were given, I mean such is the expectation isn't it? I know pooling isn't a big deal considering its $5-$10 each person, but if the community was aware that there were going to be no results that would emerge then they would have donated to XDA instead and gotten a pretty gold star beside their name. I don't know if I'm being too emotional over $5-$10's, but when you climb up that harsh economy ladder from a third world country like most of us do, you suddenly get that feel of how important/valuable $1 is. (Consider the fact that some would find people crazy to spend over RS/PHP 20k over a phone where that would pay up for 1 semester of a College student)
I completely agree however of the mindless babble of those who submit no contribution but have high # of posts. It's insane. But with XDA having 5+ million online user's daily, It's hard to determine who helps and who doesn't. Which is why I've mentioned you have done a splendid job in clean sweeping the arena. Keep up the great work and sorry if this has gone a bit indepth.
I understand that here, on XDA, you get nice and civilized answers if your thanks-meter is high. My question is: Is the XDA strategy built to make users leave XDA for other communities? Or is it just that the arrogance is directly proportional with the thanks-meter?
Ruwin said:
I understand that here, on XDA, you get nice and civilized answers if your thanks-meter is high. My question is: Is the XDA strategy built to make users leave XDA for other communities? Or is it just that the arrogance is directly proportional with the thanks-meter?
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I understand that here, on XDA, you get nice and civilized answers if your thanks-meter is high.
Not really true.
Is the XDA strategy built to make users leave XDA for other communities?
There is no XDA strategy. It's just a place for people to tinker with their phones.
Or is it just that the arrogance is directly proportional with the thanks-meter?
No it is not directly proportional to the thanks meter.
There are a lot of grumpy people around though.
I think the best thing you can do is to report arrogance and hope the user gets some sort of warning. I have also witnessed some comments that were unnecessary and that could really put new users off asking questions here. That is a real shame imo.
dc211 said:
There are a lot of grumpy people around though.
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Dmwitz said:
I have also witnessed some comments that were unnecessary and that could really put new users off asking questions here.
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+1 to these, some people who are new just don't understand how the forum layouts and whatnot work, but rather than being more polite about it, the more experienced ones go off at the new people. Pretty hard for the new people to get help that way.
Tapatalked from my HTC One S running CM10
I only really see "arrogance" displayed in two fashions:
1. The occasional Dev war drama. This really only happens rarely and has settled down quite a bit since some ROM devs have moved on to other devices.
2. Noob squashing. The fact is, Android is a victim of it's own success. In the G1 days, XDA was a true home for hackers to exchange information. Now that Android has such a large worldwide marketshare, more and more folks are coming here to enhance their devices and free them from their cell provider's greed and bad decisions, regardless of their technical level. I'd bet the CM10 thread could be condensed into a one page FAQ which would eliminate hundreds of pages of repeat questions, but in reality, the types of people that frustrate us so much wouldn't even take the time to read that. The only solution here is help or ignore...flaming just triples the number of pages dedicated to a noob mistake.
You get nasty responses when you refuse to read and the question has been asked soo many times.. or you post a question in the general section... or break any rules
I've had people not read the downgrade thread and pm asking what to do.. when if you read it, you realize its nearly noob proof
Sent from my HTC One X-
I think that one of the problems is that the pros try to distance themselves from the noobs. The problem with that is that the noobs will only feel more ignored and try harder to get their voice heard. It's a problem almost all forums have, but it seems more serious here on xda than anywhere else I've been. I think much of the talent here gets wasted. Answers get hidden away deep in overly long topics and poor communication skills make things worse.
I get the feeling that many of the threads here would have worked better in wiki-form, where each issue has its own page, instead of each topic.
But these are just a noob's impression after a few days here.
el_smurfo said:
The only solution here is help or ignore...flaming just triples the number of pages dedicated to a noob mistake.
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^^^ So much this. ^^^
@OP: I don't think what you're seeing is arrogance. More likely frustration. <S>About those damn n00bs who keep pissing all over 'our' forums.</S> But flinging poop at them doesn't result in neater cleaner tidier forums.. The catch22 here is that there is no real way to tell people (noobs and grumps alike) to stop polluting the forums without engaging in forum pollution yourself.
Also, it is not related to the thanks meter. If anything, the 'thanks' feature is meant to keep the forums cleaner, by eliminating "Wow thanks!"-posts.
(Maybe we need buttons for "Wrong section!" and "Use the search!" too. Actually, we do have a button for "Wrong section!", it's labeled "/!\ Report".)
-Jobo
As was previously was stated it frustration over most issues.
If people took a few seconds to try and search or post in correct sections things would be a tiny bit easier. Though since its the internet conflicts or bad attitudes will never subside
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using xda app-developers app
JN3141 said:
+1 to these, some people who are new just don't understand how the forum layouts and whatnot work, but rather than being more polite about it, the more experienced ones go off at the new people. Pretty hard for the new people to get help that way.
Tapatalked from my HTC One S running CM10
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No reason to be polite, when the answer or rules are stickied or found on the first page. For instance, development forum is only for development, and there's a sticky emphasizing that. Try they post questions there anyway.
So while it's understandable they don't know the layout yet, they can read. If they ask a question, they'll obviously be reading the post in case is has their answer. So they can just as easily read the stickies.
Not to mention, it's always good to take a moment and read stickies or the first page, before asking questions.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
No matter how wrong they are, you still don't need to get rude like I've seen happen. Yes, there are a lot of frustrating situations, but that still doesn't constitute the flaming. If you were new, maybe you might make a mistake like that, and wouldn't want to have people flaming you, it'd just get more confusing for you.
Tapatalked from my HTC One S running CM10
JN3141 said:
No matter how wrong they are, you still don't need to get rude like I've seen happen.
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Exactly. There is no excuse, ever. You either answer and help, or ignore, or report.
Making an unhelpful off-topic post to verbally smack someone in the face is a waaaay worse offense than posting in the wrong section or asking something that's already been asked and answered in the post right above it. It also has much more negative impact on the forums than some stray posts.
I see it as arrogance and frustration. There are many of us that are unseasoned in the knowledge of phones. When we have knowledge in a particular field and become wise, we sometimes become impatient with others for what is simple to us. Very few people knew years ago what they know now. Life is about development, meant to cultivate and refine, and it happens in stages or seasons. To the well-seasoned people, (pros) please try to understand our ignorance or unfamiliarity. When a noobie asks something, try to understand you didnt always know what you know. Show some humility, you can better help us by understanding we are students to the knowledge you have. When you teach, we can learn, and go away more intelligent in that field, then we can help others on a lower level. . Example: The Pros have level 10, some noobies may have level 5. But that level 5 noobie can help a level 3 noobie, easing the burden on the level 10 pro.
On the other hand, many noobies may start asking questions and expect the pro to do allllllll their work, NO GOOD. There is a friend of us all, his name is Google, he has helped me many times. I dont expect for the pros to do all of the work for me, as none of us should. We as noobies do need to spend more time reading and researching, if we fail to understand, then ask the question. Sometimes we all overlook things and it may take a noobie to make a pro recall that thing that was overlooked. As the commercial says, "you can learn alot from a dummy' (noobie). I even see some pros ride the coat tails of other pros and more or less follow their leads. If the first pro is hard on a noobie the second pro adds his two cents. Thats not necessary.
Let us both, pro and noobie, do our part to develop and keep good karma here at XDA. I do like XDA very much and recognize and respect the abundance of talent which is here. It is fascinating for us to learn and share what we know with others and to see we have helped someone. Im interested in learning and if possible over time to share what I learn with others in a humble manner. So if the community will have me, I plan on being here.
One other productive point of dialogue. I have noticed that recently when you create a new thread XDA automatically searches your subject line and shows you threads with similar subject lines. I think that is helpful.
But it all goes to show that maybe the search functions could be reviewed a bit more with newer members input.
I really like XDA btw, but just thinking about ways to make it better. It may be that those kinds of auto search functions should appear when you are posting in a thread, and not just creating a new one.
There may also be ways to make the search functions more intuitive. Sometimes, for example when you search threads (and not just posts) the default screeen sends back a bunch of threads and it becomes hard to judge which thread may actually contain the most relevant info you are looking for (since the subject line may not be helpful). There may be other info the search could show you (ie how many times the word comes up in that particular thread, etc).
I am sure XDA is always looking at ways to make things better. But it would be interesting to hear what new folks have to say and the challanges they face when searching for information.
AKToronto said:
I have noticed that recently when you create a new thread XDA automatically searches your subject line and shows you threads with similar subject lines. I think that is helpful.
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I agree with you AK, It is very helpful and a nice feature. It reduces the amount of clutter. I went looking to start a new thread on the subject titled "Arrogance vs Humility", and boom, the search suggestions showed me a few threads on the subject. It does become time consuming when cleaning up the forums. Most times when we want to know something we want it on the spot and dont take the time to look first. More so than not, the question has already been answered.
Another issue is the xda app does not have an option to filter the search results. It's pretty well useless. Main reason I switched to tapatalk.
One S | Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2 | Viper 1.2.1 | Bricked Beastmode
There's also not a lot of stickies in the Q & A section... I think we might want to start a project with moderators to propose some stickies and have folks volunteer to create and update the original posts in such stickies.
For example an RUU FAQ, and a Wifi faq, perhaps another on different hboot versions what that even means, one on custom recoveries, kernels, etc. I posted what I thought was a more comprehensive review of sd card issues people have had and fixes and asked it be moved to q & a (since the one stickied there is pretty basic and hasn't been updated). My explanation is still getting buried in the general section for now http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=36372149#post36372149... It's not a big deal though.
But I do find that really good OPs (ie original posts) can do a world of good for someone who is new. Stickies and other OPs should be updated frequently especially as people start explaining their issues.
Another good example of a post that should be stickied in Q&A but is lingering in General is http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2076086
Sent from my HTC One S using xda premium
Dmwitz said:
I think the best thing you can do is to report arrogance and hope the user gets some sort of warning. I have also witnessed some comments that were unnecessary and that could really put new users off asking questions here. That is a real shame imo.
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AGREE completely, some people just believe that just because they've been here for what seems forever and (believe) they have put in their time that they can actually treat people like they're complete idiots and that is just WRONG! I have been around for awhile and never that I can remember have ever treated members like this plus each individual may have better understandings of many other devices or aspects of several other types of electronics compared to many, than again some just are not too familiar with this or that type of device possibly because there are as we can agree slight differences in each. Why can we not just treat everyone as people of a large and (sometimes) great community also, just explain things like the way you wanted them explained to you when you first arrived or switched devices and I just received the BEST experience in my thread for the past week from 'Darknites' and another member whom I'm having issues with writing his username lol but he knows who he is. I try to learn from what has been taught to me through trial and error and lots of it but members like above stick in and help even though I know they were getting irritated lol, when I can I help those with similar issues or with issues I possibly know the answer to. PLEASE just help, no need for rude degrading comments to anyone no matter how much they may not be catching on also you can type many things in 'Google' or even in this forum's search but may not get exactly what your looking for especially like me when this is your daily driver device and can't afford or are not into testing many different devices.
Thanks.
TheCrow1372 said:
AGREE completely, some people just believe that just because they've been here for what seems forever and (believe) they have put in their time that they can actually treat people like they're complete idiots and that is just WRONG! I have been around for awhile and never that I can remember have ever treated members like this plus each individual may have better understandings of many other devices or aspects of several other types of electronics compared to many, than again some just are not too familiar with this or that type of device possibly because there are as we can agree slight differences in each. Why can we not just treat everyone as people of a large and (sometimes) great community also, just explain things like the way you wanted them explained to you when you first arrived or switched devices and I just received the BEST experience in my thread for the past week from 'Darknites' and another member whom I'm having issues with writing his username lol but he knows who he is. I try to learn from what has been taught to me through trial and error and lots of it but members like above stick in and help even though I know they were getting irritated lol, when I can I help those with similar issues or with issues I possibly know the answer to. PLEASE just help, no need for rude degrading comments to anyone no matter how much they may not be catching on also you can type many things in 'Google' or even in this forum's search but may not get exactly what your looking for especially like me when this is your daily driver device and can't afford or are not into testing many different devices.
Thanks.
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:laugh: