PURPOSE:
The goal of this project is aimed at helping junior developers and sr. dev. assistants to understand the:
Subtle differences in hardware, particularly the radio, processor, and gps, which exists between various devices which are all called "Atrix 2"
To understand which hardware versions of the Atrix 2, correspond to the various geographic regions of the world, and which carriers provide service to or sale these hardware versions.
To gain a solid understanding of the reasoning why various kernels, ROMs, radio drivers, gps drivers, system images, and frameworks can or cannot be mixed and matched to the various hardware versions of the Atrix 2.
WHY:
It can scarcely be overstated, how powerful one's first experience with flashing a ROM can be, on the uninitiated android user. It may push them far away, never to return, or it could be the hook that reels in one of the best developers ever to rise and serve our community.
Additionally, because these differences in hardware, represent CRUCIAL choices that a junior developer must be confident in their discrimination of, this well organized and researched forum resource might jumpstart the future growth of the development work being done on the Atrix 2 platform.
METHODOLOGY:
The XDA Forums must be searched carefully for the best possible keywords, related to hardware, etc., and then scaned prudently for deconstruction and understanding of reported trial/error and other experiences users have shared, which will shed light on hardware/ROM/radio/system.img compatibility.
The relevant specifications for all known model numbers of the Atrix 2 phone, must be filtered and posted here, for an easy, summative, side-by-side comparison of reported differences.
Senior Developers who have been working on the Atrix 2 and similar software, as well as hackers, ROM cooks, mod-ers, scripters, and even themers, must participate and correct any errors posted here, in order to synthesize an accurate, comprehensive, and up-to-date set of hypotheses which match hardware versions to software capable of running on them.
XDA Members who are Atrix 2 owners, or who otherwise might be in a position to know (such as through employment), need to share their understanding here, based on their part of the world or where they purchased their phone from, and thus add to the set of hypotheses, the possible exceptions to the rules based on international ROMs, and overseas versions of the hardware.
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MANUFACTURER PROJECT PAGES & SPECS:
ATRIX NAMES & MODEL NUMBERS:
(links below, lead to official Motorola product web pages)
ATRIX™ ME860, MB861
ATRIX™ 4G MB860
ATRIX™ 2 ME865
ATRIX™ 2 MB865
... BUT these are just the United States versions, and this still does not address the undoubted differences in software loaded (radios, etc) dependent on the Telecom Carrier (AT&T, T-Mobile, Sprint, Verizon).
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METHODOLOGY EXAMPLE:
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EXAMPLE FORENSIC DECONSTRUCTION, KNOWLEDGE BUILDING:
Take for instance, the case of multiple converging lines of evidence, which together can be used to create an educated guess, which is then tested by further research of reported user experiences. Thusly, a friend of mine was recently kind enough to let me know he had uploaded a ROM file, he knew I was eagerly awaiting:
Hi Paul,
I just uploaded the %$#@*&"}! ROM ... Enjoy!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
QUESTIONS IMMEDIATELY PRESENTING:
Is my MB860 the same exact hardware that this ROM was previously running on(?), regardless of which carrier sells it? For instance, an ME865 is not the same hardwware as an MB865, but all ME865's are exactly the same hardware (in the US), regardless of which carrier they are sold for/by, and likewise, all MB865's are the same. Is this correct?
Is there enough differences between the ME865, and the MB865, such that some things can NOT be flashed on one, but they can on the other (like, the radio, versus a kernel, or ROM)??
REFERENCE THREAD & SEEKING ANSWERS:
I've read in a post (#3, in this thread) by Jim Bridgman that (referring to the MEARET ICS ROM that member Xanadu is running on his A2, that...
"...it will not work if you have an ME865 or a US version of the phone."
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...which I interpret to mean ANY version of the Atrix 2 phone, which was manufactured for sale and use specifically in the United States, will not run the leaked ICS ROM (Mearet) currently in use by Xanadu.
But, just when I think I've got a grip on the meaning, Xanadu follows up, 2 posts later, that
"It works fine on ME865 and MB865 except at&t units."
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Click to collapse
... which is of course, one of the reasons I'm led to think that there could(??) somehow be two different version of HARDWARE which are both given the name MB865 -- one version is the US version, on AT&T, and the other is in Weinberg (presumably, in Germany, the location of member 'Xanadu').
Exactly one post later, I see further insights from member 'marcher233' (Beijing, China), who writes:
"We have two kind of LEAK roms at China: CN and HKTW versions. They both work on ME865 China Mainland and Hong Kong/Taiwan devices."
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CONCLUDING HYPOTHESIS:
I strongly suspected, that AT&T was providing service in China and HK/TW (greed is the same, whether in communist nations or otherwise), so this bolstered my suspicions that just because two phone both read ME865, does NOT mean they are the same hardware. Afterall, there is actually another digit on the end, at least, on my phone.... it shows Model Number: MB8656
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NEW HW QUESTION:
Thusly, (and to some degree, spawned resultantly from the continue research stimulation) we arrive at yet more, NEW questions.
What is the significance of this last digit in the model number, which is so rarely found in the literature from the manufacturer?
Other than risking softbrick, what is the best method to determine if a kernel or ROM for one phone, is flashable on another?
Thanks so much, for any insights you can give me.
Best Regards,
Paul
AT&T has a MB865. Theres an, I guess you could call it 'international' version with the same model number, frequently seen in middle eastern and asian markets (MEARET and SEARET software versions) and then there's the ME865, which is not (I don't think) a US release. All 3 have different hardware. They can flash images back and forth, but cannot use software updates meant for one of the others.
If course, its really late, and I just read these forums, I'm not a dev or anything...I could be wrong.
Sent from my MB865 using XDA
The atrix 2 is only MB865 and ME865 mb860 is the atrix 4G otherwise known as the original atrix.
the me865 and MB865 are actually different hardware, but close enough to be called the same phone. the different versions of the mb865 are different firmware versions, but may or may not be actual different hardware.
roms can generally be flashed to any of the A2 devices.
each has it's own fxz. you can only flash the ATT us version with that fxz, but the international ones like SEARET and MEARET can be flashed on each other.
lkrasner said:
The atrix 2 is only MB865 and ME865 mb860 is the atrix 4G otherwise known as the original atrix.
the me865 and MB865 are actually different hardware, but close enough to be called the same phone. the different versions of the mb865 are different firmware versions, but may or may not be actual different hardware.
roms can generally be flashed to any of the A2 devices.
each has it's own fxz. you can only flash the ATT us version with that fxz, but the international ones like SEARET and MEARET can be flashed on each other.
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So up guys with att us version cannot flash searet or mearet Roms?
Sent from my MB865 using Tapatalk 2
I posted this a few weeks ago in response to questions about running leaks on different version of the A2. I think this should clear this all up, I have done way too much research on our phone, for the purpose of compiling kernels, and getting AOSP to work, so this is what has come from this research.
The original post can be found here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=26993870&postcount=268
The Atrix2 has 5 iterations if you look at slight hardware differences alone... The ME865 is a completely different phone (2 versions of that one) for all intents and purposes.
Then there are 3 different Hardware revisions in the MB865, you have the asian version, then the Euro version, then the US version, each one carries a different GPS chip, and the Asia version has a different wifi chipset from the Euro and US versions.... now just because the actual chips are different does not mean that they operate differently, just that the software kernel drivers ARE different, so are the apps within the sofware for those parts....
Hence all the different software releases that this phone has, which includes the kernel and those chip drivers.. that is the whole reason this sucks so much for us devs.... especially if we are working on something like cyanogen mod, since there is NO source for the MB865 phones, only the ME865 phones have had the source released.
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Click to collapse
Now, so, you might be able to flash any of the leaks or ROMs for any versions of these phones, but unless you flash the radio and wifi parts separately, your phone may have some issues with GPS, phone calls, roaming, WIFI, etc. You may experience some, all or none of these issues, with an international phone, but if you try and run an international version on the AT&T phone you will have a glorified tablet with no communications at all. We have seen this when the 2.3.6 leaks were out, and people on AT&T were flashing the international and ME865 fxz and leaks, and they had a TON of issues.
To everyone besides the OP, why is it that this subject can never die around here? Just do a search and see for yourselves, the issues that others faced before doing something dumb like flashing other versions of the software that are not for your phone.
To PRichardson, what I have quoted above should suffice for a good explanation for your documentation on the OP, I would hope.
The one thing is though, that ANYTHING to do with the OG Atrix 4G models (ME860, MB860, ME861) needs to go away, that phone is not even in the same universe as ours, since it uses a tegra chipset, and there is NO way roms for it will run on our phones, nor our ROMs on thier phones.
Itch Scratched
Greeting Jim (& others),
jimbridgman said:
...To everyone besides the OP, why is it that this subject can never die around here? Just do a search and see for yourselves, the issues that others faced before doing something dumb like flashing other versions of the software that are not for your phone.
To PRichardson, what I have quoted above should suffice for a good explanation for your documentation on the OP, I would hope.
The one thing is though, that ANYTHING to do with the OG Atrix 4G models (ME860, MB860, ME861) needs to go away, that phone is not even in the same universe as ours, since it uses a tegra chipset, and there is NO way roms for it will run on our phones, nor our ROMs on thier phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you so much Jim. I agree 100%, and it does indeed suffice. And I shall also endeavor to learn to search and read these forums more judiciously in the future. I am beginning to see that the 'confident' tone of some posts, is not always justified so much as the reputation of the speaker.
I will add an update to my OP at the top of it, with a clear and somewhat brief answer (relative to my usual style) to the basic questions I posed, summarizing all here as I understand it, and clearly annotate the bottom half (with intact OP left untouched) as serving 'historical purposes only' so that any forensic deconstructivists, shall have their satisfaction, if their itch must be scratched.
Best Regards,
Paul
PRichardson said:
Greeting Jim (& others),
Thank you so much Jim. I agree 100%, and it does indeed suffice. And I shall also endeavor to learn to search and read these forums more judiciously in the future. I am beginning to see that the 'confident' tone of some posts, is not always justified so much as the reputation of the speaker.
I will add an update to my OP at the top of it, with a clear and somewhat brief answer (relative to my usual style) to the basic questions I posed, summarizing all here as I understand it, and clearly annotate the bottom half (with intact OP left untouched) as serving 'historical purposes only' so that any forensic deconstructivists, shall have their satisfaction, if their itch must be scratched.
Best Regards,
Paul
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
once again, we all give somewhat clear answers and Jim swoops in here and clears everything up perfectly, making the rest of us look like fools. (no offense, you're awesome).
Related
Man, I'm so frustrated.
On other forums some people have mistakenly thought I'm against flashing custom ROMs. I'm not. I'd flash a custom ROM in a heartbeat. In fact, the reason I hang out here is I'm watching for "That ROM". I'm just not comfortable with the state of things on the Captivate. Here's the deal... it seems every single ROM is a compromise. I'm not talking about differences in themes, or what apps are included, etc... I'm talking basic functionality. Sometimes it's little things, sometimes it's big things... but always, you need to give stuff up. And I'll get the response, "yeah well stock is buggy too, so what's your point?". You know... sometimes the little things count. The details add to the experience. Maybe we want all the little things to actually work. Maybe you don't care about bluetooth, but I do. Etc.
Bluetooth. Haptic feedback. Battery life. Cell reception. GPS. Stability. Performance. Voice quality/Audience support. Pick the 3 you don't care about and are willing to give up.
Frustrating.
And a lot of it seems to come down to these "modem" files. Dozens floating about... everyone has their favorite like they have a favorite color. And they themselves come with compromises... use one, and A B and C work but X Y and Z don't. Use another, and it's the other way around... or maybe there's D E and F now. What works for one person doesn't work for another... and yet these are the same model phones. Oh, but wait... now it's passe to say "every phone is different". Like they are? They're the same hardware. But now we just accept for some reason that every Captivate is some random assembly of different chips and so using a ROM is an assumed matter of modem-roulette and deciding what features you want and what ones you're willing to sacrifice.
Why is this "ok"?
It's important to mention at this point that this is absolutely nothing against the hard-working developers here. I don't doubt for a moment that they are doing their absolute best with what they have available to them. It's not that, it's the culture... the community... the mindset. Are we being hypocrites? I mean, if we're just accepting now that every Captivate is unique hardware and no one ROM/modem will work ideal on all of them, why do we hold Samsung to a higher-standard like they themselves could ever produce an official and universal 2.2 firmware for the Captivate where everything actually works for everyone?
Something's not right here. I don't doubt that people get different results with different files... but these are different environments, and the testing not done consistently or scientifically. I don't think it's appropriate to act like the differences come from varying hardware when it's far more-likely that it's differences in other more-random things. Some people are in a primarily 1900 MHz area, some primarily in an 850MHz area. GPS is also environment-specific and someone with a modem that offers below-average GPS performance might report that the GPS is "amazing" simply because they're in an ideal spot. The hardware is the least likely aspect to vary. Surely there must be a solution... a better answer... a potential for a modem that actually works amazing for everyone. Where all bands are supported, GPS works amazing, Audience chip is supported, etc etc.
I just felt the need to vent. I'm not sure what the solution here is... I just feel we've gotten to casual just "accepting" a situation as something it's not, and shouldn't be. One shouldn't have to play modem-lotto just to get basic decent performance from their ROM, or decide what basic features they're willing to sacrifice. I know this is a huge discouragement for me, and why I'm still on stock. I want to flash so badly... but every ROM thread I read through I eventually hit at least one (if not several) deal-breakers, and the casual acceptance of them is just frustrating.
Anyone feel the same way? Thoughts?
I think your over analyizing.....im a flash junkie and I've flashed everything on the forums....I don't use my phone for business so almost every rom I use has everything I need functional...haptic feedback is not a reason for me not to use a rom but camera is.....along with flashing roms I mix matched different kernels and modems.....its all preference.....with the modem situation I just flash one and test it out until I have an issue then move onto the next...I thought jk4 was the best for me until I decided to try jk3. I've noticed I get reception in areas where I didn't with jk4....so ill test this one out for awhile....you can't sit and read until u read that u found the best......u just have to test it out for yourself...it sucks but that's what u get. I feel things wont get better for us until we get our official froyo release by att. Well have our noise cancellation chip working as well as a modem built for att usa. I had better cell service with captivate roms n modems then I do with i9000 ones but the i9000 roms are leagues ahead of any captivate ones
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Did you try Serendipity? It seems to do quite well on every item in your list.
I have not flashed for mostly the same reasons as you. It seems that every combination has different things that work and things that do not work. I want every function of my phone to work properly. That includes hardware noise cancellation and proper bluetooth support, which seem to be a major issue on i9000 ROMs/kernels/modems. My biggest issue with Captivate ROMs/kernels/modems is the apparent lack of support for bluetooth voice dialing. Now it is a fair argument that bluetooth voice dialing does not work on the AT&T 2.1 ROM, but it is not a supported feature of 2.1. It is a supported features of 2.2, so why shouldn't I (we) expect it to work? If a feature that is supposed to work in 2.2 does not work, that doesn't give me the best feeling about flashing the ROM.
I came over from the Windows Mobile side and I flashed custom ROMs on my Fuze without thinking twice, but there were never core or standard features of the phone or OS missing in the ROMs I flashed. I had bluetooth + voice dialing, good battery life, good cell reception, good working GPS, extremely good stability, great performance (for the hardware), and good voice quality with working noise cancellation in all the ROMs I ran.
I think that overall the devs here are doing a good job, and I think things will improve after the release of 2.2 sources for the captivate, but it seems that right now, there is a compromise involved in any of the custom ROMs.
I can accept the fact that the current ROMs don't meet my expectations, but when people say, "just start flashing" to people like myself who have higher expectations, it gets a little old. The attitude that only people willing to accept these compromises should be reading/contributing to the xda-developers forum is also annoying. I think it is great that there are people working on custom ROMs and there are people willing to run them with the compromises they have to make, but that does not mean that everyone should just be willing to make those compromises and if they are not willing they should not post.
I have made very few posts in the Captivate forum, I guess it could be said that I have been lurking and reading up on each new custom ROM as it comes out, waiting for one that seems to meet my expectations. I have not been vocal, or complained about the fact that we need to make compromises. But others that ask questions about whether certain things work, seem to get flamed and told to just accept the way things currently are, or they are completely ignored. If the devs don't want to answer questions such as, "does bluetooth voice dialing work," or "how is bluetooth voice quality in this ROM," then they should put this type of information directly in the first couple of posts. The newest Cognition ROM thread has this type of information and I greatly appreciate that DG included it. For most ROMs you can't find out if certain items work properly without reading the first 10-20 pages of posts.
Maybe the main issue for people like me (with higher expectations from my phone) is that good information about what works and what does not work often does not float to the top of the ROM dev threads. I started using xdandroid on my Fuze as my first introduction to Android and each phone that it ran on had a thread and on the first page was a listing of each major functional piece (sound, camera, bluetooth, etc) and whether or not it was working yet. Each developer can do as they choose, but if the status of functional items and known bugs was listed in the first page, it would save on questions and some of the less than helpful responses that the questions cause.
People also have to remember that only a leaked/unfinished Captivate 2.2 ROM has been made available as a base for some ROMs so there's no other choice for a complete Froyo ROM without resorting to i9000 ROMs. Expecting things to work from a unfinished leak is a bit different from having high standards.
GPS is also broken for some people whether they're on a stock ROM or not to begin with, devs can't magically make it work for everyone.
Cell reception is not 100% determined by a ROM, if I flash the "most amazing bestestst rom ever" and live in a remote forest with lead leaves, reception might just suck a little because it mainly depends on location.
No phone is the same believe it or not, maybe unless it's an iPhone. If you want something that works as it should perfectly, you probably shouldn't be flashing ROMs, because they are essentially in infinite beta until a dev doesn't want to work on it anymore. Either stick to the stock ROM, get an Aria or some other unlocked phone, or even an iPhone since that's probably most stable thing out there right now.
The ROM threads grow dozens of pages every hour, and posts will always get overlooked whether they are important or not. It still amazes me that people get confused when they start seeing an H instead of 3G. This is a development community and has several thousands and thousands of users at any given time. It is busy.
tysj said:
People also have to remember that only a leaked/unfinished Captivate 2.2 ROM has been made available as a base for some ROMs so there's no other choice for a complete Froyo ROM without resorting to i9000 ROMs. Expecting things to work from a unfinished leak is a bit different from having high standards.
GPS is also broken for some people whether they're on a stock ROM or not to begin with, devs can't magically make it work for everyone.
Cell reception is not 100% determined by a ROM, if I flash the "most amazing bestestst rom ever" and live in a remote forest with lead leaves, reception might just suck a little because it mainly depends on location.
No phone is the same believe it or not, maybe unless it's an iPhone. If you want something that works as it should perfectly, you probably shouldn't be flashing ROMs, because they are essentially in infinite beta until a dev doesn't want to work on it anymore. Either stick to the stock ROM, get an Aria or some other unlocked phone, or even an iPhone since that's probably most stable thing out there right now.
The ROM threads grow dozens of pages every hour, and posts will always get overlooked whether they are important or not. It still amazes me that people get confused when they start seeing an H instead of 3G. This is a development community and has several thousands and thousands of users at any given time. It is busy.
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Click to collapse
For the American SGS phones, I was not trying to suggest that the developers can "fix" the GPS (though it is worth noting that Da_G has made some good progress http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=881941).
I don't completely disagree with many of your points, which is why I am still running the stock ROM. If I had two phones, I would be willing to beta test unfinished software and ROMs, but since I only have 1 phone that I expect to work (or more accurately, my company who pays for it expects it to work) I have not flashed any of the current firmwares that are available.
I think cell reception has a lot more to do with the Radio/Modem than the ROM. If you have a working modem and that modem functions with the ROM, then it should give you the same reception. I think one of the main points the OP was making was that there is no apparent consistency, and some modems work with some ROMs, and not with others. It does not even seem to be accurate to say that any i9000 modem will work with any i9000 ROM, as some combinations cause poor voice quality or other issues.
I do disagree with your statement that "no phone is the same." Any Captivate in the same batch/build should have identical hardware and should function identically (assuming Samsung has good quality controls in place). There is the potential for slight differences between batches, but I can't believe that any of those differences is significant enough to cause software running on the phones to behave differently. If that is the case, there is no way that Samsung can release a working Froyo build, or even a working Eclair build that would function as intended on every captivate. If Samsung was unable to produce identical products consistently, they would be out of business because none of their products would function as intended consistently.
As far as "expecting things to work from a unfinished leak is a bit different from having high standards," I don't think it is unreasonable for better visibility to what works and what does not work in the first page of a ROM thread. I am not saying that I expect everything to work 100% on all ROMs, especially without 2.2 sources, and I am not saying I expect the devs to be able to test every possible things, but I don't think it is unreasonable to hope that as bugs or problems or ROM/Kernel/Modem combinations that do not work are discovered, that information could be made more accessible without reading 100 pages of a ROM thread.
Hopefully most of this is just growing pains as Android is evolving and as we wait for 2.2 sources for the Captivate. For Windows Mobile, much of the OS and functionality of the OS was pretty much set between ROMs. The biggest differences were in the frameworks (Sense vs. Non-Sense, etc) and theming of the ROMs. That is why I have said in the past that if we could get a solid, working AOSP ROM with all drivers, etc for the SGS, it would give a good base for additional ROM development.
Could someone please give me some insight on the difference between JS3 and JPY? I searched, but there is likely already a thread somewhere (there always is). Pros and Cons of each if there are any too please.
I'm thinking of using the Rom Kitchen to make a rom for my Rogers Captivate (SGH-I896 I believe) and those are some of the choices.
(Bonus marks to whoever lets me know what CSC is and a particular modem I should use)
Js3 is a newer release of 2.2.1. Debatable if there is any real world difference between the two. That being said Js3
Csc its only important if you plan on using kies. Neither options are rogers, so I don't think this means anything to you
Modern really depends on location. I like jk4
I wonder if the demonic voices are not a problem with JS3 as it was with JPY.
I went from a Motorola Milestone to a Droid 2 Global. And as much as I am enjoying the Fission ROM from Team DeFuse, I am wondering why there seems to be such low interest in the Droid 2 Global compared to the original Droid 2? Can anyone give me some info as to why this is the case? I realize that with the Droid 2 globals additional radios that that transcribes to more work to get those operational in a custom ROM, I just dont understand why this powerful phone is ignored and left to sit on the curb. Thank you to all in advance.
1. The Global is hard to dev for. There aren't many Global devices to go off of, so the radios are hard to get 100% working on custom roms
2. It was launched silently. No one really knows it exists, so it just didn't receive the initial dev bump that phones usually get when they're first released
3. It didn't sell very well. I can't speak for the whole sales numbers, but my friend who works for Verizon Corporate (or something like that) said the numbers weren't fantastic in New York.
4. Three devices is a lot. Any devs willing to work on the Global probably already work on the Droid X and Droid 2. Adding a third device to the list is just too much for people who do this as a hobby.
That's the best explanation I can give... sorry for how negative it was, lol.
To be fair, the D2G is receiving more support this last month or so. Look on droidforums.net, some good work being done on there (3 or 4 roms available).
I will keep an eye out on droidforums. I was also thinking that with the possibility of 2.3 coming out for it most devs dont (myself included) see a point in making a ROM on froyo when 2.3 is around the corner. Thank you for your input. Its much appreciated
Most of the correct answers were already stated...
Just wated to point out that only people who truly needed global support would buy the D2G.
Droid Pro got play merely because it was targeted at the Crackberry crowd conversion which really didn't work.
Those are the only two GLOBAL phone I know of. Doesn't make sense to make many more with the 4G revolution under way.
Business have bought into the form factor but the Devs they all look at the performance specs and the EASE of development regarding the model.
The biggest issue though is the locked bootloader! Since the boot loader is locked you can not run custom Kernels so any development that could be made is limited to the stock kernel.
All of the Motorola development you see regarding phone with lockd bootloaders are really nothing more than a bunch of stock and AOSP apps and system files that change the look and the startup sequence but the base code that runs the phone pretty much stays the same!
I would love to see more people making ROMs for the unit but what I really want to see is the unlocking of that boot loader.
If we managed to do that then none of us would be worrying how many roms were available or which one updates next.
We would probably all be running Cyanogen at this point and merely wait for the next release of stable! And also be looking for the next great Kernel update to make it even better!
Asphyx said:
Most of the correct answers were already stated...
Just wated to point out that only people who truly needed global support would buy the D2G.
Droid Pro got play merely because it was targeted at the Crackberry crowd conversion which really didn't work.
Those are the only two GLOBAL phone I know of. Doesn't make sense to make many more with the 4G revolution under way.
Business have bought into the form factor but the Devs they all look at the performance specs and the EASE of development regarding the model.
The biggest issue though is the locked bootloader! Since the boot loader is locked you can not run custom Kernels so any development that could be made is limited to the stock kernel.
All of the Motorola development you see regarding phone with lockd bootloaders are really nothing more than a bunch of stock and AOSP apps and system files that change the look and the startup sequence but the base code that runs the phone pretty much stays the same!
I would love to see more people making ROMs for the unit but what I really want to see is the unlocking of that boot loader.
If we managed to do that then none of us would be worrying how many roms were available or which one updates next.
We would probably all be running Cyanogen at this point and merely wait for the next release of stable! And also be looking for the next great Kernel update to make it even better!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Won't anyone who wants a keyboard on verizon also get the D2G? I mean it's the only half decent phone with a physical qwerty keyboard on verizon, and the droid 2 itself was phased out months ago, 4 months ago when I got my D2G you couldn't get a new Droid 2 at verizon, though I think Best Buy might have still had them, though they were just clearing out stock.
Also I thought fact that everything has to be signed is the problem with the phone. When you don't know how to sign the kernel and other things the phone has hardware to autobrick which is why no one can get around it. Tons of phones out there have locked bootloaders that are gotten around well before or within a few days of the phone being released. If it was just the locked bootloader then I'd say motorola has found the holy grail of security, because everything else out there has been hacked through.
The problem isn't that the bootloader is signed, its that its encrypted. Newer htc phones have bootloaders that require signed kernels and people have found ways around them already, the encryption prevents us from loading custom software on it.
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using XDA App
Just an observation here. Maybe someone with more knowledge can answer.
But now that all T-Mobile USA users have S-off... should we open a new forum for T-Mobile USA phones? I ask this because it seems we will have custom ROMs based off foreign RUUs and OTAs all mixed up in the same thread. Which would bring a lot of "Can I flash this if I'm a USA T-Mo user?" type questions.
Now this may just be a misunderstanding and the custom ROMs may not affect the radio or whatever & thus not be an issue. Just the same I felt it better to ask the question and look stupid than keep it to myself and be right.
Anyone?
I don't think any of the forums split the development sections in the way you're suggesting. You should be able to flash any ROM regardless of what the base is. Just have to read up to make sure it plays nice as some introduce bugs.
I understand what you mean but i don't think its needed provided you read the rom post
at one point threre was two forums for the hd2 leo and tmobile us so it can happen
Indeed. The Leo and T-Mobile US HD2 once had their own forums, but they where eventually merged into one once it became clear that with the proper labeling of releases people where more likely to successfully flash something, than not(IE, that's why we enforce the ROM labeling system that we do here, which was kanged from the HD2 section).
As of right now I see no need to split these forums, as currently ROMs seem to be interchangeable between regions and devices.
ashasaur said:
Indeed. The Leo and T-Mobile US HD2 once had their own forums, but they where eventually merged into one once it became clear that with the proper labeling of releases people where more likely to successfully flash something, than not(IE, that's why we enforce the ROM labeling system that we do here, which was kanged from the HD2 section).
As of right now I see no need to split these forums, as currently ROMs seem to be interchangeable between regions and devices.
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Okay. I guess that was part of my question. For example, I saw this ROM posted and it's based on official HTC RUU 1.35.401.1
But since I'm a T-Mobile USA user I wasn't sure if the ROM would alter the frequencies my device operates on...etc. I believe this was an issue back when I had the Samsung Vibrant. There was a European variant known as the i9000. We could not flash the i9000 ROMS without having them ported to our Vibrants properly.
sup luckyduck
i remember you in the GS4G forums with krylon n crew
mikeDCMDVA said:
sup luckyduck
i remember you in the GS4G forums with krylon n crew
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hey man! did you switch over to the sensation too?
luckyduck69 said:
Okay. I guess that was part of my question. For example, I saw this ROM posted and it's based on official HTC RUU 1.35.401.1
But since I'm a T-Mobile USA user I wasn't sure if the ROM would alter the frequencies my device operates on...etc. I believe this was an issue back when I had the Samsung Vibrant. There was a European variant known as the i9000. We could not flash the i9000 ROMS without having them ported to our Vibrants properly.
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"Frequencies" are hardware related. A ROM cannot change the frequency that a phone uses
the_scotsman said:
"Frequencies" are hardware related. A ROM cannot change the frequency that a phone uses
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thank you so much for answering. so i can update both my rom and my radio and not worry about it? if so... that's awesome. i just like to run the most up to date software/firmware...etc.
Not sure about radio to be honest though...so don't quote me on that
the_scotsman said:
Not sure about radio to be honest though...so don't quote me on that
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I suspect it will be like the different modems on the SGS series of phones ( I had a Captivate ), I tried Mike's rom on my T-mo USA Sensation and when I tested the data speeds I got about 1/2 the dl speed sitting in the same spot within however long it took to run my recovery ( ran speedtest 5 times and averaged out ).
I'm sure they will iron out the radio thing before long, other than the data speed issue the Rom ran perfect.
luckyduck69 said:
hey man! did you switch over to the sensation too?
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Yep, kicked the Samsung to my GF
Finally got this S-OFF.....man, we thought we had it hard with no CWM on the Samsung...lol, these guys had a locked bootloader
So someone please explain to me how This Is possible. I was under the belief in my understanding of android that this is a BIG NO NO. I do realize and I may not fully understand the similarities and differences between the different versions of the SGS3 but I would think that because of the Radio being different among all of the carriers that Kernels would be totally different as well. I will reference the Fascinate and the Mesmerize for example. Pretty much the same phone but completely different as far as anything and everything development wise. So what it boils down is this
1. Can we flash kernels designed for the At&t, Sprint, or T-Mobile versions of our phone.
2.What versions of the SGS3 can we SAFELY flash Kernels from.
3.How is this possible given the differences in the different phones.(Question for my sake cause I am really curious and hope i can get a good explanation regarding this)
Aali1011 said:
So someone please explain to me how This Is possible. I was under the belief in my understanding of android that this is a BIG NO NO. I do realize and I may not fully understand the similarities and differences between the different versions of the SGS3 but I would think that because of the Radio being different among all of the carriers that Kernels would be totally different as well. I will reference the Fascinate and the Mesmerize for example. Pretty much the same phone but completely different as far as anything and everything development wise. So what it boils down is this
1. Can we flash kernels designed for the At&t, Sprint, or T-Mobile versions of our phone.
2.What versions of the SGS3 can we SAFELY flash Kernels from.
3.How is this possible given the differences in the different phones.(Question for my sake cause I am really curious and hope i can get a good explanation regarding this)
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There have been some successful instances of sprint kernels being flashed that I've seen, but it is never a great idea to flash kernels not specifically designed for your phone. btw. there are some pretty good kernels available for vzw now
It's a pretty bad idea. There is a very small chance it could work but more than likely it won't boot
arrogantS3 said:
There have been some successful instances of sprint kernels being flashed that I've seen, but it is never a great idea to flash kernels not specifically designed for your phone. btw. there are some pretty good kernels available for vzw now
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And i figured as much. I am just REALLY surprised it worked and I just kinda wanna know why it worked. The technical reasons to be honest. But to play it safe i will just stick with those kernels that have been made for the Verizon version thus far. I am still hesitant using the Sprint Kernel even knowing it works.
Neverendingxsin said:
It's a pretty bad idea. There is a very small chance it could work but more than likely it won't boot
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And based of of you saying this and me knowing this is why i ask lol. Cause like arrogant says there have been successful flashes of the Sprint Kernel. Again idk everything there is about Android but i wonder if it possible due to the fact our unlocked bootloader is partially sprint or something along those lines. That is why i was hoping someone would see this and chime in with a technical explanation and then either a go for it, no, or tread with caution. When the phone was being released there was talks of a rom kitchen being established between the carriers and i was hoping that this was a part of that. Meaning that someone who Devs for the AT&T version of the SGS3 can have their rom or kernel ported to Sprint version and then the Verizon and T-Mobile variants. Idk if the kitchen is still a possibility or in the works but it would be cool to see it kernel wise considering most are running AOSP based roms.
I tried to flash att one two days ago, can not turn wifi on....
So, not recommended
Aali1011 said:
And based of of you saying this and me knowing this is why i ask lol. Cause like arrogant says there have been successful flashes of the Sprint Kernel. Again idk everything there is about Android but i wonder if it possible due to the fact our unlocked bootloader is partially sprint or something along those lines. That is why i was hoping someone would see this and chime in with a technical explanation and then either a go for it, no, or tread with caution. When the phone was being released there was talks of a rom kitchen being established between the carriers and i was hoping that this was a part of that. Meaning that someone who Devs for the AT&T version of the SGS3 can have their rom or kernel ported to Sprint version and then the Verizon and T-Mobile variants. Idk if the kitchen is still a possibility or in the works but it would be cool to see it kernel wise considering most are running AOSP based roms.
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Some kernels could very well work, same as some stock themes for sprint will work with stock roms on verizon (jellybomb domination being one of them) the issue is that some things could be carried over that may not play nice with our phones and vice versa. While it may run perfectly fine, there's a greater risk that it could break something.
I have yet to run an AOSP rom because of the IMEI issues, so i can't really comment on that, but i know if i was going to flash another carriers kernel i would make sure to make a backup first.