Hi.
I have seen these apps from Björk but they don't seem to be for android. They are only for iPhone.
BUT I've read that the app could be ported from iOS to another operating systems because it was made to allow this. And Björk encouraged hackers to do that! That was said from Björk herself in an interview!
She told Drowned in Sound that the apps had been specifically designed so that they could be easily ported to other platforms -- like Symbian, BlackBerry and Android. "We really made sure when we wrote all the programs that they will transfer to other systems."
"I'm not supposed to say this, probably, but I'm trusting that the pirates out there won't tie their hands behind their back."
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http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive...shttp://www.compositiontoday.com/blog/115.asp
I personally think that the art, sounds, videos, etc, could be extracted, but what ist with the software itself? How could it be ported if the source code is not available....
What do you think?
Can someone clarify if it would be possible?
Thanks!
Some videos of these apps. You can interact with the music and make your own versions playing or changing things in a very innovative concept.
http://youtu.be/FsxsGrnCGIk
http://youtu.be/kb3kLXVs9J0
http://youtu.be/0Rx-P2UsD5g
Still waiting!
Did anything ever come of this?
Hey anybody! Do sth about it! She preety much asked to do this, so lets do sth. I guess many people would want this app for android, and here? No reply? Please!
Nobody is interested...
I think this app is cracks for iphone, but it wasn't ported to android... It would be much more interesting.
Yeah, It would be interesting for milions of people who have android phones, and not Iphones. Android is bigger market than iphone so i just don't have a clue why nobody wants to port biophilia app on android.
[email protected] said:
Yeah, It would be interesting for milions of people who have android phones, and not Iphones. Android is bigger market than iphone so i just don't have a clue why nobody wants to port biophilia app on android.
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There no hackers who like this app, i would say.
humano said:
BUT I've read that the app could be ported from iOS to another operating systems because it was made to allow this. And Björk encouraged hackers to do that! That was said from Björk herself in an interview!
I personally think that the art, sounds, videos, etc, could be extracted, but what ist with the software itself? How could it be ported if the source code is not available....
What do you think?
Can someone clarify if it would be possible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's generally not feasible.
Björk is a very interesting artist. I think her understanding of technology, and specifically software development, "hacking" and "pirating", is limited however.
Yes, the app may have been made potentially portable, but without source code that is more or less useless.
Porting an app between platforms is a much bigger task than "pirating". It's not a simple matter of pulling files from hidden directories, or even doing some limited reverse engineering and patching of an app to bypass license checks. It's MUCH more than the mere pirating of music and movie files.
I'm presuming the app was written to IOS with Objective C, and not some portable language where the source code is embedded in the ios apps.
Anything is possible, though. With enough time one could reproduce what the app does. That's probably easier than trying to reverse engineer it.
But I'd guess this is a substantial effort, likely requiring at least many months of work by a single person. But with all the paid work, and interesting free projects available to a person with the skills to port an ios app to Android without source code, why would anyone spend at least several months doing this ?
They could face the prospect of lawsuits from the rights holders, and might be unable to sell their work on official app markets. For what ? A wink from Björk, without even a physical pat on the back ? And perhaps a certain amount of gratitude from some users...
I hope she and others have learned something. If she/they want this to happen, they should at least release open source code freely, and make sure it's not difficult to port. Yeah, the video and audio recordings can remain "proprietary" but the app source code and design documents need to be released.
Or is much of the artistic expression integrated into the source code ? I haven't looked much but I guess these are not simple apps to play video and audio. These are apps that allow some form of interaction; perhaps the music changes with that.
If that's the case, the rights holders likely will want to hold onto their "intellectual/artistic property" and keep any source and design documents to themselves.
IMO, No amount of "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" from Björk will make a porting job easy.
And AFAIK there are no ios emulators for Android that might render this a simpler "pirating" effort.
mikereidis said:
I think it's generally not feasible.
Björk is a very interesting artist. I think her understanding of technology, and specifically software development, "hacking" and "pirating", is limited however.
Yes, the app may have been made potentially portable, but without source code that is more or less useless.
Porting an app between platforms is a much bigger task than "pirating". It's not a simple matter of pulling files from hidden directories, or even doing some limited reverse engineering and patching of an app to bypass license checks. It's MUCH more than the mere pirating of music and movie files.
I'm presuming the app was written to IOS with Objective C, and not some portable language where the source code is embedded in the ios apps.
Anything is possible, though. With enough time one could reproduce what the app does. That's probably easier than trying to reverse engineer it.
But I'd guess this is a substantial effort, likely requiring at least many months of work by a single person. But with all the paid work, and interesting free projects available to a person with the skills to port an ios app to Android without source code, why would anyone spend at least several months doing this ?
They could face the prospect of lawsuits from the rights holders, and might be unable to sell their work on official app markets. For what ? A wink from Björk, without even a physical pat on the back ? And perhaps a certain amount of gratitude from some users...
I hope she and others have learned something. If she/they want this to happen, they should at least release open source code freely, and make sure it's not difficult to port. Yeah, the video and audio recordings can remain "proprietary" but the app source code and design documents need to be released.
Or is much of the artistic expression integrated into the source code ? I haven't looked much but I guess these are not simple apps to play video and audio. These are apps that allow some form of interaction; perhaps the music changes with that.
If that's the case, the rights holders likely will want to hold onto their "intellectual/artistic property" and keep any source and design documents to themselves.
IMO, No amount of "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" from Björk will make a porting job easy.
And AFAIK there are no ios emulators for Android that might render this a simpler "pirating" effort.
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Thanks Mike for the reply. I didn't see this.
Are you sure, that the source code is not included? Is not possible that there's a intermediate state of the the code, that could be built for Android? I always thought, that is something like that.
You are totally right. With the artwork we cannot build the app for android...
And I don't even have an iphone to see how the apps should look like in android.
humano said:
Are you sure, that the source code is not included? Is not possible that there's a intermediate state of the the code, that could be built for Android? I always thought, that is something like that.
You are totally right. With the artwork we cannot build the app for android...
And I don't even have an iphone to see how the apps should look like in android.
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Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure. Anyone who claims otherwise is challenged to "show me where the source is".
For Android there is an emulator for PCs that many apps can run on, and an app of this type could run.
I know almost nothing of ios development, but likely there is an ios emulator that can run on a Mac at least ? AFAIR, ios development requires a Mac.
Feel free to send Bjork, or the companies that represent her, email asking about this.
I've been a fan of some of her music, and even acting and I even find her cute... And that's why I responded here. I had an initial thought that this could be an interesting project, but I have no time for such an unpaid hobby project.
BTW, Just looked at the iTunes page and some others. Seems to be a $12.99 app. And says "The full Biophilia App Album is now a paid app for new users, old users maintain same in-app-purchase ability." Something tells me the legal fine print says you're screwed if you hack it, especially if you tried to make a few bucks or do it publicly with your real name.
Artists (with money), hollywood and recording industry types tend to have iPhones. They don't know tech per se, don't want to know tech, and they have the cash to spend. They want something that "just works" and that's what the iPhone does, for a price. And ios is where devs make REAL money. Comparatively speaking, Android sucks for making money.
I saw some comment that they didn't make an Android app "for legal reasons". Sounds like a different way to say "business reasons". I imagine her recording company sells her music on iTunes, but doesn't sell it on Google Play in that big ongoing power play between media companies and tech companies ?
mikereidis said:
I think it's generally not feasible.
Björk is a very interesting artist. I think her understanding of technology, and specifically software development, "hacking" and "pirating", is limited however.
Yes, the app may have been made potentially portable, but without source code that is more or less useless.
Porting an app between platforms is a much bigger task than "pirating". It's not a simple matter of pulling files from hidden directories, or even doing some limited reverse engineering and patching of an app to bypass license checks. It's MUCH more than the mere pirating of music and movie files.
I'm presuming the app was written to IOS with Objective C, and not some portable language where the source code is embedded in the ios apps.
Anything is possible, though. With enough time one could reproduce what the app does. That's probably easier than trying to reverse engineer it.
But I'd guess this is a substantial effort, likely requiring at least many months of work by a single person.....
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Click to collapse
Quoting my words from a year ago out of sheer vanity, LOL.
New news about her kick-starter project for Android and Windows ports of the IPad Biophilia being put "on hold". Among other sources: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/appsblog/2013/feb/08/bjork-cancels-biophilia-kickstarter
Summary of my opinion: I love her as an artist, but she doesn't understand technology. Ooooh, and I wish she would forget about Windows and just do Android.
IMO the IPad was targetted first because that's what all the at least reasonably well off artsy people used at that time, and could afford. Now she wants the app in the hand of those who can't afford IPads.
So why can't/haven't they just open sourced the code ? Original IOS devs still hold the rights ?
Bjork says:
"porting the app "proved unbelievably complicated""... LOL.
And the estimate seems to be 8 devs (staff?) for 5 months, for both Windows and Android. So maybe 20 developer months for each.
And that's a small project in the world I've come from, with 10-100 dev teams working for years. And she thinks that's "unbelievably complicated".
Now I don't know exactly the scope of the app is; I've never used it on Ipad, and I don't know if it uses some magic IOS stuff that's hard to port.
For all I know it could require the minimum of my quoted estimate of "...at least many months of work by a single person". Or it could be 10-20 man-years. I don't know.
My point continues to be that she doesn't have a grasp of technology. And that's fine, she's a wonderful artist IMO, and there's no shame in not having or not wanting tech knowledge.
mikereidis said:
Quoting my words from a year ago out of sheer vanity, LOL.
New news about her kick-starter project for Android and Windows ports of the IPad Biophilia being put "on hold". Among other sources: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/appsblog/2013/feb/08/bjork-cancels-biophilia-kickstarter
Summary of my opinion: I love her as an artist, but she doesn't understand technology. Ooooh, and I wish she would forget about Windows and just do Android.
IMO the IPad was targetted first because that's what all the at least reasonably well off artsy people used at that time, and could afford. Now she wants the app in the hand of those who can't afford IPads.
So why can't/haven't they just open sourced the code ? Original IOS devs still hold the rights ?
Bjork says:
"porting the app "proved unbelievably complicated""... LOL.
And the estimate seems to be 8 devs (staff?) for 5 months, for both Windows and Android. So maybe 20 developer months for each.
And that's a small project in the world I've come from, with 10-100 dev teams working for years. And she thinks that's "unbelievably complicated".
Now I don't know exactly the scope of the app is; I've never used it on Ipad, and I don't know if it uses some magic IOS stuff that's hard to port.
For all I know it could require the minimum of my quoted estimate of "...at least many months of work by a single person". Or it could be 10-20 man-years. I don't know.
My point continues to be that she doesn't have a grasp of technology. And that's fine, she's a wonderful artist IMO, and there's no shame in not having or not wanting tech knowledge.
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Click to collapse
Yes I love her but that's why I think too , she too thought that porting an app will need 5 guys working on it and two months oh bjork
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Chad_Petree said:
Yes I love her but that's why I think too , she too thought that porting an app will need 5 guys working on it and two months oh bjork
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
Originally, she hoped that "hackers" would do it, somehow, without source code, and she was giving a "wink, wink" to that.
She seemed to think that porting an app to a different platform would be almost as easy as pirating music, movies or apps.
I'm too busy to get involved, but I would be happy if someone(s) would ask her to get the source code released, and the "community" may be able to look and see and offer opinions or ideas.
Perhaps a few fans have the tech abilities and free time to make something of this at little or no cost, as opposed to professional devs making a normal professional dev income.
There's a forum here: http://4um.bjork.com/viewforum.php?f=16&sid=c28e2e0870bdc695ce7da8da94849918
Anybody know if she communicates openly with her fans online ? Is there an easy way to ask her for source code and offer ideas ?
IMO, she needs to forget about a Windows port, at least for now. It should have been Android from the beginning, but that said, Android is still relatively sub-par when it comes to real-time music generation. IOS stomps Android in this area, though the latest JB changes are promising.
mikereidis said:
Originally, she hoped that "hackers" would do it, somehow, without source code, and she was giving a "wink, wink" to that.
She seemed to think that porting an app to a different platform would be almost as easy as pirating music, movies or apps.
I'm too busy to get involved, but I would be happy if someone(s) would ask her to get the source code released, and the "community" may be able to look and see and offer opinions or ideas.
Perhaps a few fans have the tech abilities and free time to make something of this at little or no cost, as opposed to professional devs making a normal professional dev income.
There's a forum here: http://4um.bjork.com/viewforum.php?f=16&sid=c28e2e0870bdc695ce7da8da94849918
Anybody know if she communicates openly with her fans online ? Is there an easy way to ask her for source code and offer ideas ?
IMO, she needs to forget about a Windows port, at least for now. It should have been Android from the beginning, but that said, Android is still relatively sub-par when it comes to real-time music generation. IOS stomps Android in this area, though the latest JB changes are promising.
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Click to collapse
I will ask it in her forum. Perhaps she reads this proposal. It could work.
humano said:
I will ask it in her forum. Perhaps she reads this proposal. It could work.
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Click to collapse
I signed up on that forum and didn't get any confirmation email.
I was reading the main thread about this, and I think some of the posters understand a bit about s/w development. But some others are very misinformed about how development works.
mikereidis said:
I signed up on that forum and didn't get any confirmation email.
I was reading the main thread about this, and I think some of the posters understand a bit about s/w development. But some others are very misinformed about how development works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am registered in that forum too and it's what you say. They don't have any idea.... :laugh:
But there's good news, at least somebody told in the forum, that she told in an interview, that she will find a cheap way to port biophilia to android.
She would never release the code as open source... It would be crazy... We would have a BIOPHILIA+
It's what you told before. She doesn't really understand the power of doing it... :victory:
humano said:
She would never release the code as open source... It would be crazy...
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Click to collapse
Well, no open source basically, generally means it's "commercial property".
So this is a commercial venture she has.
That's fine, that's OK. It belongs to her (and/or whomever) and she can do what she wants with it. No different than other software devs / vendors, musicians, song, book or movie writers etc.
But she can't expect some "benevolent hackers" to come along and "port" an app like this for her for free; with or without source code.
And she has something going on with bringing music education to the poor or something like that. And that's why she wants an Android port it appears. The poor can't afford iDevices.
And that's fine too. But it seems like it's a jumble of commercial stuff and some form of self promoting philanthropy.
Anyway, I think she should forget about this years old project and make something completely new for Android. Why re-do what's already been done ? But I guess money comes in there too. It should be faster and cheaper to re-use the high level design and media components.
mikereidis said:
Well, no open source basically, generally means it's "commercial property".
So this is a commercial venture she has.
That's fine, that's OK. It belongs to her (and/or whomever) and she can do what she wants with it. No different than other software devs / vendors, musicians, song, book or movie writers etc.
But she can't expect some "benevolent hackers" to come along and "port" an app like this for her for free; with or without source code.
And she has something going on with bringing music education to the poor or something like that. And that's why she wants an Android port it appears. The poor can't afford iDevices.
And that's fine too. But it seems like it's a jumble of commercial stuff and some form of self promoting philanthropy.
Anyway, I think she should forget about this years old project and make something completely new for Android. Why re-do what's already been done ? But I guess money comes in there too. It should be faster and cheaper to re-use the high level design and media components.
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Click to collapse
I fully agree. These apps are already a little obsolete for android.
And I have good news. She found a team of developers who is going to do the work for low price. We will have biophilia for android after the summer. Let's see how it is...
humano said:
I fully agree. These apps are already a little obsolete for android.
And I have good news. She found a team of developers who is going to do the work for low price. We will have biophilia for android after the summer. Let's see how it is...
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Click to collapse
I hope it's not some "boiler room" s/w dev hack operation that promises more than it can deliver. I'm restraining myself from mentioning/identifying certain world areas where this is more common.
She's apparently coming to my town this summer; I've never seen her live; would be interesting.
mikereidis said:
I hope it's not some "boiler room" s/w dev hack operation that promises more than it can deliver. I'm restraining myself from mentioning/identifying certain world areas where this is more common.
She's apparently coming to my town this summer; I've never seen her live; would be interesting.
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Click to collapse
She said that in one interview. That's what the people in the 4um.bjork.com say. I think it's real.
I saw her live last sommer and was amazing.
Well Biophilia app is already for Android devices!
Check the playstore https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bjork.biophilia
How hard is it to port an iOS game to android? I mean, I want to play the Final Fantasy Tactics meant for iPhones on my transformer.. I could always do the PSX emulator or something similar for FFT, but I was thinking that the controls would be more touch oriented for FFT if it was redesigned slightly for the iPhone?
you're kidding right?
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
No.. I'm not. I mean, I've not coded for android or iOS before, and the coding I've done is mostly with mathematical and scientific languages so I have no idea the difficulty of porting something. What steps must be taken? What are some guides for this?
Your post would imply that it's either simple, obvious, or been done, could you point out where or what exactly this is?
I'm nog expert, but I think you'll need the source code to port something
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
asdfuogh said:
How hard is it to port an iOS game to android?
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Click to collapse
Hard? Without the source code, it's pretty much impossible!
The best you could hope to achieve is some sort of emulation or virtualisation of iOS, which would allow you to run the game "natively" in the emulated/virtual environment, but chances are performance would be so poor it would be a slideshow making it not worth the effort (which would be considerable!).
Regards,
Dave
Starting from scratch or something with code available, you could probably share the same C core (written to be portable), and have separate bits of code for the platform: e.g. an Android activity, a GTK Window, or whatever iOS uses. For a comercial game you are probably SOL.
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just use fpse and call it a day. I mean if you have the time and the talent to port it successfully more power to ya but it just seems like way more trouble than its worth to attempt that.
Damn.. I guess it'd be easier to program a different control for FFT on the emulator, and ad hoc it into some kind of stand off by itself or something huh..
Theres a multi platform linux/windows app called corona thats meant for going back and forth between android and iOS. But you'd need the source code. And if you were able to do it you'd be infringing on copyrights and be in a whole heap of trouble.
Hi folks!
Please forgive me if this is the wrong forum to post a general question about mobile app development..
So my story is that I'm mostly a graphics guy who got asked by a good friend to design a logo for his company. From there I got talked into designing his website and then into building his site. I can throw sites together but I'm no a web programmer and I advised him to hire some real web developers but aside from the fact that I would cost him less, he has trust issues and only wants to work closely with a friend ( me) and trusts my judgement and sense of design. So now I'm trying to mastermind his web presence from the front end to the back end, learning as I go. It's actually TONS of fun!
Then he came around one day asking to make him a mobile app. After the laughter subsided I explained to him the work and money that goes into that which really shocked him. However I told him I would look into what I could do for him, but that I was pretty sure this was out of my league.
I found some great services that will let you build basic mobile apps but now I've become VERY interested in the challenge of developing mobile apps from scratch and have decided to learn some programming languages to enable me to develop web/mobile apps. It seems that mobile platforms are poised to become the norm within the next decade and I would love to be part of its beginnings.
I have three questions:
1.Am I WAY out of my league here?
I ask this because a) I have NO programming experience. b) I ONLY want to use online sources and books, and c) Ideally I would like to be able to build my first app within a couple of months to a year at most.
2.What languages should I learn?
I'm feeling ambitious and want to be very thorough. I figured I should try learning c++ and Java (to an intermediate level). From there I could come around objective-C
3. the Jquery Mobile, HTML5 alternative?
I've noticed a small community of developers heralding HTML5 as the app-building tool of the future, together with JQUERY mobile...That sounds VERY appealing to me as someone who is more used to looking at web development code, and if something is 'the wave of the future' I definitely don't want to waste time learning languages that might become obsolete in a few years... But can you really build a powerful app with just these two tools?
If you've read through my entire post, I am grateful for your patience, and I hope to find some valuable insights on these forums.
Cheers!
I have read your entire post, and while I wish I could help, I'm afraid I'm in your exact situation and wonder about these things myself.
At least you got a small bump!
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2
lenglain said:
Hi folks!
Please forgive me if this is the wrong forum to post a general question about mobile app development..
So my story is that I'm mostly a graphics guy who got asked by a good friend to design a logo for his company. From there I got talked into designing his website and then into building his site. I can throw sites together but I'm no a web programmer and I advised him to hire some real web developers but aside from the fact that I would cost him less, he has trust issues and only wants to work closely with a friend ( me) and trusts my judgement and sense of design. So now I'm trying to mastermind his web presence from the front end to the back end, learning as I go. It's actually TONS of fun!
Then he came around one day asking to make him a mobile app. After the laughter subsided I explained to him the work and money that goes into that which really shocked him. However I told him I would look into what I could do for him, but that I was pretty sure this was out of my league.
I found some great services that will let you build basic mobile apps but now I've become VERY interested in the challenge of developing mobile apps from scratch and have decided to learn some programming languages to enable me to develop web/mobile apps. It seems that mobile platforms are poised to become the norm within the next decade and I would love to be part of its beginnings.
I have three questions:
1.Am I WAY out of my league here?
I ask this because a) I have NO programming experience. b) I ONLY want to use online sources and books, and c) Ideally I would like to be able to build my first app within a couple of months to a year at most.
2.What languages should I learn?
I'm feeling ambitious and want to be very thorough. I figured I should try learning c++ and Java (to an intermediate level). From there I could come around objective-C
3. the Jquery Mobile, HTML5 alternative?
I've noticed a small community of developers heralding HTML5 as the app-building tool of the future, together with JQUERY mobile...That sounds VERY appealing to me as someone who is more used to looking at web development code, and if something is 'the wave of the future' I definitely don't want to waste time learning languages that might become obsolete in a few years... But can you really build a powerful app with just these two tools?
If you've read through my entire post, I am grateful for your patience, and I hope to find some valuable insights on these forums.
Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want an easy place to start I can recommend trying badic4android for the same reasons nasa use it, that it lets you create proper standalone android apps just as coding with java does but much quicker and easier. The site for it is basic4ppc.com if you want to check it out.
Failing that the traditional method is using the eclipse ide and android sdk to program in java.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
mistermentality said:
If you want an easy place to start I can recommend trying badic4android for the same reasons nasa use it, that it lets you create proper standalone android apps just as coding with java does but much quicker and easier. The site for it is basic4ppc.com if you want to check it out.
Failing that the traditional method is using the eclipse ide and android sdk to program in java.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow thanks Dave I hadn't found this one, it seems like there are tons of resources to facilitate mobile app creation. I will probably look into these to create an app for the non-profit I work for. However, I still think I should learn some programming to become a bonafide app-developer somewhere down the line.
Do you think the objectives I've set myself (in regards to programming languages/rough time frame) are realistic?
lenglain said:
Wow thanks Dave I hadn't found this one, it seems like there are tons of resources to facilitate mobile app creation. I will probably look into these to create an app for the non-profit I work for. However, I still think I should learn some programming to become a bonafide app-developer somewhere down the line.
Do you think the objectives I've set myself (in regards to programming languages/rough time frame) are realistic?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you can do it in two months with any language if you take time to study it, I tried learning java but have memory problems and so couldn't get to grips with it so I use basic4android because its very similar to languages I used as a student and was able to have a gps mapping app up and running in under an hour which surprised me.
Html5 apps can be used offline and are cross platform so would be the way to go for a wider user base as you can reach pc and smartphone users as well as those who use games consoles. You could find out more at http://diveintohtml5.info/offline.html
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
Well I'm just a high school students but from the words of my teacher, as long as you have a mind that can write working algorithms and understand algorithms, languages are second hand, they're just tools.
Personally I find it true as I only know C yet if I look at a java code I can understand what the code does. But that might be because Java has some similarities to C, but I still appreciate the concept.
$1 gets you a reply
Programming is like any other skilled activity
I'm a life-long programmer. 33 years so far.
The quick answer is 'Probably.' You can probably write decent apps in the time frame you're looking at. I'd say you'll want to dedicate no fewer than 5 hours a day at it for that year. The simple truth is that unless you're that rare Mozart, you aren't going to write commercial quality code until you have lots of experience trying to write commercial quality code.
Hobby code... you can probably get hobby quality stuff going in a few weeks. Yes, it'll freeze and restart and throw bizarre errors, but still, that's a very cool thing.
The question then becomes one of defining the level of quality you're after and the time you're willing to devote to learning your craft.