So I've been attempting to get HTC to comply with the GPL license and release the source code for the One S (one x needs it too), and I got the standard 90-120 day response. However, this isn't acceptable, as that's 90-120 violations of the GPL license, which requires that they provide it to you upon request, not "in 90-120 days".
I've responded to them again, reminding them of their duty to lawfully abide by the terms. I urge each of you to do the same, and in a calm, collected manner.
I'm not sure where your open source community requirements came from, but with all due respect, 90 to 120 days is not acceptable. I think it's important that I point out to you HTC's lawful obligation to abide by the terms of the General Public License (GPL) v2, as the Linux kernel that HTC uses for its Android phones requires that HTC release its source code immediately. As this device has now been released in at least 2 countries, HTC must follow that obligation, and in a timely manner. 90 to 120 days is in no way a timely manner, and accounts for a significant percentage of the device's realistic life as a current HTC product.
If you'll note in the GPL v2 License, there is no 90-120 day grace period for releasing source code. If HTC has provided the Linux kernel binary to any single customer (in this case, it has been delivered via many HTC One S's), then HTC is obligated to provide a copy, upon request, of that specific source code (in this case, the T-Mobile USA HTC One S). Section 3 of TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR COPYING, DISTRIBUTION AND MODIFICATION makes clear note of these terms.
HTCdev.com has been a definite improvement on HTC's stance regarding source code distribution and openness, but there is much work that is needed to be done. In particular, the timeliness of providing source code is still troubling. HTC makes great phones, but still has a duty to the open source community. There is certainly something to gain by abiding by these terms and distributing the source code to the community. Many technology enthusiasts and developers are eager to get their hands on the code and make their own improvements. The HTC One V model, which has been released alongside the One S and One X, already has its source code posted on the HTCdev website. However, the One S and One X (all variants) are STILL lacking, and each day that HTC delays is a willful violation of the GPL.
I respectfully request that you release the source code for my device in a timely manner. It would be in the best interests of both HTC and the open source software community, and can only serve to strengthen HTC's relationship with the community.
Thank you kindly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, looks like they're eager to play ball, and I don't mean that in a good way. Any of you EU folks care to remind them that the device has been out over a month over there across the pond? The more pressure the better.
Dear Nick,
I appreciate your input concerning the availability of the kernel source codes for our Android devices. I realize that you are eager to get the source code for your device; but this device is a recent release in the US market. I would recommend you keep an eye on the HTC Developer website for further source code release information.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well written that !!
Mind if i copy and paste it ? and re send it to them ?
Sure, my letter is "open-sourced" . Feel free to modify and make any improvements. They're trying to use the excuse that it's a recent release, yet you EU guys have had it for several weeks now, so I'm interested to see how they'll respond to you. Make sure you use your EU model in your letter.
The thing that kills me is that they think that 90-120 days is acceptable. That's 3-4 months. In 3-4 months, HTC will already be over 50% complete with some sort of new phone, and the One S will no longer be in its youthful stages. When a phone lasts you 2 yrs on average, 90-120 days is a significant period of time. One of the things that attracts developers to a phone community is the availability of the source code. Until then, interest will continue to remain what it is now.
Oh man, my first post here. Coming from a Legend, stuff's new
So, I guess I'll translate that WoT and write it to the german HTC Support, let's see their response!
bump.
bump. maybe we could get this stickied until they release the code? Its currently a major development issue.
How long does HTC usually need to respond? Sent my request yesterday, let's hope they'll get the code to the devs as fast as possible ._.
I received a response in about 2 days.
phin586 said:
I received a response in about 2 days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Telling you to please wait 90-120 days? If so, respond back, remind them every single day is a willful violation of the GPL license. If they've distributed the kernel in binary form to ANY SINGLE CUSTOMER (as it is on the phone), then they're obligated to provide the source code for that specific binary. And we've got plenty of binaries out in the wild, in both the EU and US, and under multiple versions.
HTC is playing games once again, and their approach to developers is once again becoming a joke. I don't understand what's so difficult about following the rules.
Sometimes they'll even play the "it's not in a readable format" card. Only problem there is -- if it's not readable, then how on Earth did they develop it? It's gotta be readable in order to make it in the first place.
Let's see what the german support has to say about this
I'd love to see my One S being S-Off. I want that stock ICS
@nickmv, Of course I did. Hopefully it helps.
---------- Post added at 11:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 PM ----------
Oh. I also reported the violation to gnu.org
I suggest you all do the same.
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-violation.html
bump.
Keep hammering them, folks.
nickmv said:
bump.
Keep hammering them, folks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Someone needs to link this thread in the one X forum
Sent from my HTC One X using XDA
Once I get my hands on my very own One S tomorrrow I will contact the Dutch HTC. Even though I dont dislike sense at all development is in everyones best interest!
Sent from my GT-S5660 using XDA
Ah, my generic reply...
Thank you for your reply. I understand your concerns with the situation John, but rest assured that we will release the kernel source within 90 to 120 days John. We thank you for your patience while awaiting the sources to be posted, and thank you for being a part of the HTC community.
If this answers your comment or question, please click here to complete the process.
To submit another comment, please click here.
Sincerely,
The HTCDev Team
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok so i emailed them yesterday and this is their reply
Thanks for contacting HTC.
Reagrding your email about One X kernel source code, HTC are currently in the process of providing the HTC One X and One S Kernel Source Codes via the HTCDev website.
We have already uploaded the One V code and hope to provide the One X and One S very soon. Please keep checking the HTCDev site, http://htcdev.com, over the coming weeks for the source codes you are after.
I hope this information meets with your approval, please don't hesitate to reply if you require further assistance.
Let me know if I have successfully answered your question, please click here to complete this.
To send a reply to this message, please click here.
Sincerely,
Jason
HTC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have replied to that above message with this.
Thanks for the quick reply, However i do not understand why it is taking HTC so long to release this, The One S has been available for several weeks now, It was released before the One V and yet the Kernel source code for that phone is available.. The android community is open source, And with HTC delaying the release of the source code is breaching the conditions mentioned in the GPL. You have the code otherwise the phone wouldn't have been released, So why cant you just release it immediately? Why are you delaying it ? The longer HTC hold it, The slower development for this device is, Which is not fair on people like me who want to speed development up for this device. Telling me that the codes will be released 'in a few weeks' is barbaric I would like an estimated time frame. The main thing i want to know is why you haven't released it already. Thank you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EDIT: Their reply to the above is:
Dear aaron maher,
Thansk for your reply.
I do appreciate your need for this data, but am not permitted to enter into speculation or personal discussion.
We have to wait for the Dev teams to upload it to the website, I can only apologise this is causing you frustration.
Please be assured, it is something there working towards and will be avaiable there soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I find that extremely rude ! dont you ??
azzledazzle said:
Ok so i emailed them yesterday and this is their reply
I have replied to that above message with this.
EDIT: Their reply to the above is:
I find that extremely rude ! dont you ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely. Gotta remember, half of this is complete bull****. At least they're not going overboard and pulling the "it's not in readable format" crap.
azzledazzle said:
Ok so i emailed them yesterday and this is their reply
I have replied to that above message with this.
EDIT: Their reply to the above is:
I find that extremely rude ! dont you ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, quite rude, I assume this person is the Jason who replied your first email. He must have not been trained properly regarding what customer satisfaction means nor how to reply in a professional language without copy/paste existing answers.
However, just don't piss off because of this, I have had the "honour" to visit one call centre (not HTC) and chatted to the senior manager in CS department and the front line support staff. It is a common problem that the front line customer service staff most of time do not know exactly what they are talking about nor have enough knowledge to answer non-standard question. I assume the team replying email is the same. So basically unless they ask their manager your question, you won't get satisfied answer. However, they won't because it will show that they are lack of knowledge and directly affect their appraisal.
Shame... but do send email to them so they will eventually understand how to satisfy this question.
Keep hammering at them guys!
Related
Since HTC has not yet provided the source code for the updated kernel (2.6.29-bc0d2cff) that ships with the 2.1 update, I'm putting up this thread to document my requests that they provide it. Once again, they're giving me the run-around.
Request 10USCW22ENA001190
Per the terms of the HTC Legal Agreement on my HTC CDMA (Sprint) Hero, Section 4 (End User License Agreement), I am formally requesting the source code for the Linux kernel 2.6.29 as installed on my phone. I have installed the recent Android 2.1 upgrade, and it does not appear that HTC has published the required source code yet.
As the Linux kernel is licensed under the General Public License (GPL), anyone distributing this software must also provide the source code used to compile the software. Any delay in doing so is a violation of copyright.
The specific version of the software being distributed in the HTC Hero (Sprint) Android 2.1 update is as follows:
Kernel version:
2.6.29-bc0d2cff
[email protected] #1
Thank you for taking the time to post this source code, and making sure that HTC is fulfilling its open-source (and copyright law) obligations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First reply from Philip (North America Support (Tech))
Hello Chris, Thank you for taking the time to write us. I understand that you need the source code for the 2.1 version of the Sprint Hero. Rather than getting into a semantics debate of the device being under the Apache License or the GPL, I will just state the facts as they are. The department that you are in contact with is HTC Technical Support; we do not have any part of posting the source code, nor do we have information as to when it will be posted. However, when the source code is available you will be able to find it at developer.htc.com. Thank you for your patience in this matter. If you have any other questions, feel free to contact us again. You can find additional support at support forums at community.htc.com. There is also a customer satisfaction survey for you to take if you are interested. Philip HTC Technical Support www.htc.com www.twitter.com/htc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...and my response:
There is NO issue of "semantics" regarding the licensing and source code request I made. The Android platform is licensed under the Apache Software License, while the Linux kernel that the phone runs on is licensed under the General Public License (GPL). I made a very specific request for the Linux kernel source code, which is unarguably licensed via the GPL.
This is very clearly documented in HTC's Legal Documents bundled with the phone. Also clearly documented is the fact that this is the department I am to contact in order to be provided with the source code. Please read the Legal Documents bundled with the HTC Hero (Sprint), consult with a Supervisor, and let me know whether or not HTC will be complying with their End-User License Agreement. If the terms of the End-User License Agreement differ from what is provided with the phone, I would like a copy of the new document.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For what its worth, the Legal Documents I am referring to can be accessed by visiting "Menu"->"Settings"->"About phone"->"Legal information"->"HTC legal"->"4. End user License Agreement"
Nice dude!
Way to push them using their own EULA.
I look forward to seeing how this unfolds
Legal department would probably respond better to pressure.
18. Notices. HTC may give you all notices (including legal process) that HTC is required to give by any lawful method, including by posting notice on the Site or by sending it to any email or mailing address that you provide to HTC. You agree to keep your email and mailing addresses current and to check for notices posted on the Site. You agree to send HTC notice by mailing it to HTC’s “Address for Legal Notices” which is:
HTC Corporation
No. 23 Xing-Hua Rd.
330 Taoyuan City
Taiwan, R.O.C.
Attn: Legal Department
With a copy to:
HTC America, Inc.
13920 SE Eastgate Way, Suite 400
Bellevue, WA 98005
Attn: Legal Department
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My original response to this thread was going to be "not another thread like this...", but then I read your replies to them. I like how you're handling it so far and how you're using their own rules against them
Welcome to round 2 everybody! Hope it doesn't take as long as it did last time. How bout we send them a transcript of the last kernel request thread.
I am glad to see this going again. Like Mrbiggz said, maybe it wont take as long this time.
They released the Eris source like a week after 2.1 was pushed out to their phones.
Wonder why the delay.
-------------------------------------
Sent from my Android phone.
Prolly cause they are pissed about last time. We were relentless and now they want to make us pay for it. LOLOL
cmccracken said:
For what its worth, the Legal Documents I am referring to can be accessed by visiting "Menu"->"Settings"->"About phone"->"Legal information"->"HTC legal"->"4. End user License Agreement"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After a quick look there, you may also want to send your request to "customer service" as that's where they state to contact in my phone. I'm running a 2.1 rom (Fresh) and don't know if that info varies any or not. At any rate, a good support person would have "not gotten into the semantics of it" and given you this information, or looked into it further and let you know that. I'm not sure if contacting CS would get you any further or not...
FAIL on the part of this HTC support person...
jporter12 said:
After a quick look there, you may also want to send your request to "customer service" as that's where they state to contact in my phone. I'm running a 2.1 rom (Fresh) and don't know if that info varies any or not. At any rate, a good support person would have "not gotten into the semantics of it" and given you this information, or looked into it further and let you know that. I'm not sure if contacting CS would get you any further or not...
FAIL on the part of this HTC support person...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did go to "Customer Service". Their "E-mail Support" option is the same place as the Tech Support system. Apparently the rep doesn't know what his job is.
I love this. Their own legal team is leading to their downfall.
fortune82 said:
I love this. Their own legal team is leading to their downfall.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't take full credit for this approach. The last go-around, I repeatedly had a member of the Google Android team suggest that I "read the legal docs" on the phone. I think I finally caught what he was saying between the lines.
In reality the haven't released the code to us because there is a giant sectionof comment in the kernel source that says. and I qoute - "... this line of code is horribly written and would allow for a buffer over run kernel exploit for elivated privledges (i.e. ROOT/TOOR) if a hacker happens to notice the null pointer called *thisIsNotAnExploitLoopHole ..." It then goes on to show the code that can be used to exploit it, but that got lengthy.
@OP, very well put. Let's hope for a 2.1 Kernal release very soon.
Well looks like its going to be another battle with them to get this out, I'm in again and will post the responses that I revive.
-------------------------------------
Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App
We need to start a pool and see how long it takes. I bet at least a month based on the fact that sprint some how will slow down the process.
cmccracken said:
I did go to "Customer Service". Their "E-mail Support" option is the same place as the Tech Support system. Apparently the rep doesn't know what his job is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, gotcha. Something I did not know about that made me look like a total newb... Oh wait, I AM newbsauce!
I'm with Kcarpenter in that they wouldn't want to let it out now to give the devs here access to an exploit that woudl give us root!
ricersniper said:
We need to start a pool and see how long it takes. I bet at least a month based on the fact that sprint some how will slow down the process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see it happening until after it's rooted.
We need to bomb HTC's website with comments to encourage them to release the kernel source code for our device. I suggest we all go to the following link daily and request its release;
http://htcdev.com/contact
HTC just sent me a link to take a survey, another good tool to blast them with.
http://survey.htc.com/worldwide
Code has been released, I like to think all our complaints helped. Feel free to lock this thread if need be!
http://www.htcdev.com/devcenter/downloads
We have been. I've sent them several notices on a near daily basis.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
I doubt that that link is anything more than a placebo.
http://www.htc.com/us/about/contact-by-email
Say something along the lines of "you're in violation of GPLv2 which requires that source be released along with binary. GPLv2 does not allow for anything besides release of source NOT being ANY LATER than binary distribution."
I.e., though GPLv2 doesn't specify an exact time frame, the implication of this is that the source must be made available by the EXACT MOMENT that the binary is distributed. It *does* allow for the source to be released BEFORE the binary, but does NOT allow for the binary to be released before the source.
IMO, the kernel source archive should be included within the system partition of the phone, at least for early releases while there is sufficient storage space for it all to fit. This would greatly simply source distribution.
Even though I went to that page and asked for the kernel source code to be released, it looks like they're on a pretty routine schedule as far as what and when they release things and we're probably still a little ways out on the source code. But it can't HURT to keep trying, right?
Submitted. Hopefully they'll listen up.
BiggJurk said:
We need to bomb HTC's website with comments to encourage them to release the kernel source code for our device. I suggest we all go to the following link daily and request its release;
http://htcdev.com/contact
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, we have been. As unclespoon said they are on a fairly set release schedule that they must be comfortable with [legal-wise].
Read my replies here, there is another link that got me a response that was from a human:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1247374
HTC does this **** on purpose. They have a bunch of new devices coming out and if they were to release the code that would impact there profit margins. This processor can handle 1.5 ghz as a daily driver. The new HTC amaze has exact same processor but is overclocked 300mhz more then our device. And it has a 1gb of RAM. Samsung has gotten great at releasing there code within 1 week or even earlier. HTC PLEASE TAKE NOTES FROM SAMSUNG.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
FYI
I filled out a customer service survey from HTC and gave them all bad ratings in regards to their non-response for the kernel source code. A representative just personally called me and is trying to get an eta on the release if not email me a copy of the code. I would suggest everyone completes a survey with negative comments at the following location:http://survey.htc.com/worldwide. I know surveys like this affects their metrics and gets managements attention. The guy on the phone also said that Android is released under the Apache license agreement.
Regards,
Filled out the survey.
Let's see if they respond.
cal3thousand said:
Filled out the survey.
Let's see if they respond.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it took them 2 weeks to get back to me.
BiggJurk said:
I think it took them 2 weeks to get back to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My guess is that they'll "get back to you" in a month or however long until they would have normally released the source code. I think they're too big to be bothered by people complaining about lack of source code. Bottom line is there probably won't ever be any "consequences" as a result of them taking their time on releasing kernel source. We only complain because we want it, but it's not like they are really doing anything wrong by just releasing it on their own schedule.
BiggJurk said:
The guy on the phone also said that Android is released under the Apache license agreement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've heard that before, but I don't see how that's possible since Android is based on Linux. If it were based on BSD that'd be another matter.
BiggJurk said:
The guy on the phone also said that Android is released under the Apache license agreement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, congrats to phone guy!! Unfortunately, either he was trying to get you to shut-up or misunderstood what you wanted them to release. Google mostly licensed Android with the Apache 2.0. This allows others to customize Android and they don't have to release their changes i.e. customizations made by phone manufacturers (it means other things too but this was Google's main reason for this license). HTC doesn't have to give us their Android source. The Linux kernel is GPL - there is no way around that. The GPL states that the source must be released at the same time as the binary is released to the end-user (it even states that the source should be no harder to obtain than the binary is i.e. we should get the kernel source with our devices - on the sd card or something). Still have no idea where HTC gets 90-120 days from the GPL wording.
I sent a note to EFF asking if they were aware of whats going on. They said they were and were researching the situation.
---------- Post added at 06:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 PM ----------
unclespoon said:
but it's not like they are really doing anything wrong by just releasing it on their own schedule.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are though. They are directly violating the GNU GPL but you are right - there are too few of us who actually want the kernel source for them to really worry. Can't believe one of the actual Linux kernel devs hasn't caught wind of this and made a statement.
I sent a couple of requests. Let's hope they move their asses.
Source has been released:
http://www.htcdev.com/devcenter/downloads
HebrewToYou said:
Source has been released:
http://www.htcdev.com/devcenter/downloads
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you were the first one to find it. I thanked you elsewhere you've mentioned it as well.
Maybe the OP can come through and update the thread title.
Edit to add - download reads 94.0MB on the HTC page, but my download over Tmo 4g is saying out of 89.6MB and my home pc is saying 89.7MB...so we'll see what's up when I get it.
YES!!! Time to OC this bad boy..
Please get on it Devs..!!!
RazoE said:
YES!!! Time to OC this bad boy..
Please get on it Devs..!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All ready on it
Sent from my Senseless Doubleshot using xda premium
That's funny.
I just received the HTC reply to my request. I'm going to play like my request was the straw for that camel's back... Your Welcome Everybody!!!
j/k. This is wonderful news though. I'm stoked
Thread locked by OP request
As a community, is there anything we can do to get HTC to expedite source release?
I went to the Android BBQ last week, waited in a 20min line, to ask their "dev" representatives about this. They literally told me no one can answer that question, when I asked who can answer me. Really, really sad.
I have been told Twitter is one way of getting their attention, but that seems like an exercise in futility.
Does anyone know how to properly harass them? Has anyone received any feedback form them of late?
I wish we could find the way to apply the right pressure to make this happen!
I'll show them my boobs.
How about everyone in the MTS4G forums calls them several times?
If you're willing to pony up $50 I'll draft up a letter in Word and send it to you. You can have your lawyer (hence the $50) print it out on his letterhead and mail it to them. If they decline you sue for your $50 and start a class action.
I'd do it myself but I don't have $50.
Col.Kernel said:
If you're willing to pony up $50 I'll draft up a letter in Word and send it to you. You can have your lawyer (hence the $50) print it out on his letterhead and mail it to them. If they decline you sue for your $50 and start a class action.
I'd do it myself but I don't have $50.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My mom is a lawyer and I know several other that probably wouldn't mind sending it, shoot the letter my way
arcticwolf8 said:
My mom is a lawyer and I know several other that probably wouldn't mind sending it, shoot the letter my way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They will want to massage it I feel certain, because IANAL.
But the gist is that Android is released under the GPL, which states that the source code MUST be released no later than the binary. I'll look up chapter and verse, try to draft up something semi professional looking, and PM it to you.
Hope your letters work
Sent from my MyTouch 4G Slide using xda premium
ekoee said:
I'll show them my boobs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you male or female? Can you post a picture?
arcticwolf8 said:
My mom is a lawyer and I know several other that probably wouldn't mind sending it, shoot the letter my way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry for the delay, I've been sick as a dog. Here is the relevant portion of the GPL;
3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following:
a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,
b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,
c) Accompany it with the information you received as to the offer to distribute corresponding source code. (This alternative is allowed only for noncommercial distribution and only if you received the program in object code or executable form with such an offer, in accord with Subsection b above.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My letter would probably read something like
Dear HTC <insert name of correct person>,
While other parts of the Android operating system are released under the Apache license the Android kernel, being Linux, is released under the Gnu General Public License version 2.
Your failure to release the source code with the binary puts you in violation of Section 3 which states;
3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following:
a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,
b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange
You have done none of the above.
You have 14 days from the receipt of this letter to comply or <insert appropriate leagalese for "explain to a judge WTH you are taking up time in his courtroom" here>.
Respectfully,
<your name>
And all the associated formatting, etc, that goes into a formal legal letter.
Obviously this should be sent Certified Mail, return receipt requested.
I got their attention using their Customer Service Satisfaction Survey.
I replied to the generic e-mail I received with the suggested text.
let's see if we can get the ball rolling
I wonder if we can get the Better Business Bureau involved somehow. It seems like a long shot but they are screwing the end user (us)
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using XDA App
Its possible. If htcs bureau rating is decreased it would look bad on them possibly.
Sent from my Senseless Doubleshot using xda premium
dung8604 said:
I wonder if we can get the Better Business Bureau involved somehow. It seems like a long shot but they are screwing the end user (us)
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good idea. However, since HTC doesn't deal with their customers directly (but rather through the carriers as a proxy), it might be better to apply pressure to T-Mobile through both the BBB and Visa/MC.
Of course the downside to that is that TMo has plausible deniability. I dunno, does HTC take Visa/MC? Might still work to go that route on them if they do.
I'm not well versed enough to even have a clue what you're talking about lol. Anybody with lawyer friends in this area want to lend their opinion?
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using XDA App
Same old bul****
HTC will typically publish on http://developer.htc.com or htcdev.com
the Kernel open source code for recently released devices as soon as
possible. HTC will normally publish this within 90 to 120 days. This
time frame is within the requirements of the open source community.
Please visit http://www.htcdev.com/contact if you wish to contact our
development team directly about the issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My reply was not really calm and relaxed: I basically said that we (the open source comunity) are not happy and that, even if we were, it is still a violation of the GPL2
My guess: I will be ignored
---------- Post added at 11:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 PM ----------
I will let our corporate office know of your complaint. As soon as the
information is available we will release it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
QED
PS: what the hell "this message is too short please add 10 or more character??????"
Etn40ff said:
My reply was not really calm and relaxed: I basically said that we (the open source comunity) are not happy and that, even if we were, it is still a violation of the GPL2
My guess: I will be ignored
---------- Post added at 11:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 PM ----------
QED
PS: what the hell "this message is too short please add 10 or more character??????"
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Its a xda issue. Ive encountered it a few times.
Sent from my Senseless Doubleshot using xda premium
Col.Kernel said:
If you're willing to pony up $50 I'll draft up a letter in Word and send it to you. You can have your lawyer (hence the $50) print it out on his letterhead and mail it to them. If they decline you sue for your $50 and start a class action.
I'd do it myself but I don't have $50.
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actually 4gs has better camera
that's why i choose it
izhyc said:
actually 4gs has better camera
that's why i choose it
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Click to collapse
..............
Wrong thread reply?
Source has been released:
http://www.htcdev.com/devcenter/downloads
HebrewToYou said:
Source has been released:
http://www.htcdev.com/devcenter/downloads
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Click to collapse
I'm downloading both over the air through Tmo 4g and my home network. As soon as I get it i'm going to start combing through it - I expect i'll be losing a lot of sleep over this starting right now (and i'm A-okay with this!)
Le Pan Tablet is a awesome and cheap tablet. But after talking with my fellow group members over at Le Pan Group, we've hit a stone. We need the source code. Now we've had insiders who tried too obtain the source code, too no avail.
Now let's take an offensive turn, and start requesting it in the hundreds.
Step 1. E-mail the two address attached.
Step 2. Don't let them blow it off.
Step 3. Please put in your discussion in quote on here.
Keep Pressuring!
Jasmine
[email protected]
Shawn
[email protected]
Rules
1. Don't be offensive; We won't get anywhere.
2. Quote what's happening on your e-mail
3. Good luck.
If you're looking too create a template or find one. Visit Le Pan Group
Case #1133
Kleine eightynine XDA on 12/11/2011 12:44:31 AM
Hey, l am a developer looking too work with the Le Pan Tablet some more. But ran into problems with propriety. Im wondering, are you going too release it? Or has it been released? Can some information be released?
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Will post more updates when they're available.
Kleine89,
I really admire what you guys are trying to accomplish here. I completely understand and I'm on the same side; unfortunately this isn't the way to do it.
Customer service and technical support is currently run by me training a small team. In fact, I think I just replied to one of your cases lol. We are already swamped with phone calls and cases so this would just increase our workload.
The thing is that we don't have the source code; if I personally had it myself I would probably quietly give it to one of the developers here. It's all up to the software team overseas to release it or not. I've already sent emails to them asking about it and they are discussing it. Seems like they are worried about some copyright issue.
Really sorry to pop your bubble here but please do not flood the support emails with cases regarding the source code. What you could do however, is email these two people asking for it:
Jasmine
[email protected]
Shawn
[email protected]
They are higher up and have direct communication to the software team. As always, please stay professional and respectable.
I'm completely on your side guys; lets get that source code.
Good luck!
nehinbin said:
Kleine89,
I really admire what you guys are trying to accomplish here. I completely understand and I'm on the same side; unfortunately this isn't the way to do it.
Customer service and technical support is currently run by me training a small team. In fact, I think I just replied to one of your cases lol. We are already swamped with phone calls and cases so this would just increase our workload.
The thing is that we don't have the source code; if I personally had it myself I would probably quietly give it to one of the developers here. It's all up to the software team overseas to release it or not. I've already sent emails to them asking about it and they are discussing it. Seems like they are worried about some copyright issue.
Really sorry to pop your bubble here but please do not flood the support emails with cases regarding the source code. What you could do however, is email these two people asking for it:
Jasmine
[email protected]
Shawn
[email protected]
They are higher up and have direct communication to the software team. As always, please stay professional and respectable.
I'm completely on your side guys; lets get that source code.
Good luck!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds good nehinbin - I'll shoot both of them an e-mail.
Honestly it's bull**** because they are using open-source software. Technically it's illegal to keep it hidden away like that. I'm not good on all the legalize and crap but XDA TV and devs here have explained it very well for other companies that tried to do this and they ended up cracking with enough pressure. Hopefully we can get them to the same.
Don't worry though, I'll be totally professional in e-mailing them and won't state where I got the addresses from as I think anyone else who helps with this cause should as well.
Thanks for all your help!
nehinbin said:
Kleine89,
I really admire what you guys are trying to accomplish here. I completely understand and I'm on the same side; unfortunately this isn't the way to do it.
Customer service and technical support is currently run by me training a small team. In fact, I think I just replied to one of your cases lol. We are already swamped with phone calls and cases so this would just increase our workload.
The thing is that we don't have the source code; if I personally had it myself I would probably quietly give it to one of the developers here. It's all up to the software team overseas to release it or not. I've already sent emails to them asking about it and they are discussing it. Seems like they are worried about some copyright issue.
Really sorry to pop your bubble here but please do not flood the support emails with cases regarding the source code. What you could do however, is email these two people asking for it:
Jasmine
[email protected]
Shawn
[email protected]
They are higher up and have direct communication to the software team. As always, please stay professional and respectable.
I'm completely on your side guys; lets get that source code.
Good luck!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your response. Will do. l've changed the guide line now. Sounded like you did. By the way, you've never offended me once, you've been a great help!
Thank you all for respecting my request.
The source code is indeed something that they are legally required to release.
Feel free to send multiple emails on different email accounts. The more pressure they receive, the more they will realize how important it is for them to release it. While you at it, you can also request the ADB drivers and other things.
I have tried them a few time already. The answer I have got is that they don't release source code. What I have got now is I have found the serial port on the 30 pin connecter. Omap3 uses xloader and uboot and will try to boot from external sd card first. I will build my own xloader and uboot and try it out.
Sent from my LG-C900k using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Hey OP. Might want to remove this thread before we anger nehinbin. He's been pretty good about getting out what he can. If he gets more, I'm sure he'll filter it out to us. When this thread expands over time, some may not read those "important" pleas made earlier.
I'll do what I can.
Since I'm all but a lawyer, as well as a professional writer, I'd be happy to draw up a template, or something more formal, requesting such release, if I am provided, by others here within the ascribed forum, with the background documentation, or links thereto, related to this non-conforming company's obligation to do so.
You get the idea.
you guys mentioned the LePan Group a couple of times. How do I join?
I own a TC970 and would be happy to help. I have experience testing and reporting about roms on my Motorola Droid 1.
Just visit my signature or the link. That's the group. Join and done.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
The real designer company is Innocomm, from Taiwan. Maybe we should put some pressure on them.
cas_xp said:
The real designer company is Innocomm, from Taiwan. Maybe we should put some pressure on them.
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Click to collapse
That'll be tough too crack though.. Damn..
I think the key is to not give up, hopefully with enough pressure and TC979 coming out soon, they'll release the source for the TC970 since they aren't manufacturing anymore from what I understand.
Keep the pressure on everyone.
Not just kernel source, but also Uboot(iboot) and x-loader(iloader) source, even they rename it.
Here is the link for violation GPL:
http://http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-violation.html
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-violation.html
Fix of broken link. One too many http's.
Kleine89 said:
Just visit my signature or the link. That's the group. Join and done.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've tried accessing the group from several threads already and keep getting an invalid social group page. Am I doing anything wrong?
cas_xp said:
Not just kernel source, but also Uboot(iboot) and x-loader(iloader) source, even they rename it.
Here is the link for violation GPL:
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Click to collapse
Farscaper said:
Fix of broken link. One too many http's.
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Click to collapse
I thought android was released under the Apache license. So the advice for gnu violations may not apply. It may be better if there were some similar but Apache specific directions on how to deal with violations.
Edit: sorry I'm a new user so I can't be trusted to post links, even in quotes
Android is under Apache license, but it is based on Linux kernel, which is under GPL
sockbot said:
I thought android was released under the Apache license. So the advice for gnu violations may not apply. It may be better if there were some similar but Apache specific directions on how to deal with violations.
Edit: sorry I'm a new user so I can't be trusted to post links, even in quotes
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Click to collapse
Sent from my TC970 (Wi-Fi) using XDA App
I gave it a try with both emails and mentioned the possible GNU violation.
If any luck I will post back here.
Dear All,
Are you as pissed off as I am by how HTC promised for open source and hasn't kept its promise?
I have asked their support line, on their ics blog and were in touch with HTC Officials personally. Never got an answer for that.
So here's an open letter to HTC that I am thinking.
What is the criteria to decide on which phones receive updates in what order, why some phones are given deadlines while others are "sometime later this year"
What happened to HTC's promise for open source? Why do you not release kernel and driver sources for ICS?
Why the unlocking is limited and will you provide a true unlock solution.
If there is enough attention, I would like to use social media to draw HTC's attention.
Who's with me?
Join the crew man! There are several people who are trying to contact HTC daily for these things. Also, a true unlock solution should be on your list!
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
hceylan said:
Dear All,
Are you as pissed off as I am by how HTC promised for open source and hasn't kept its promise?
I have asked their support line, on their ics blog and were in touch with HTC Officials personally. Never got an answer for that.
So here's an open letter to HTC that I am thinking.
What is the criteria to decide on which phones receive updates in what order, why some phones are given deadlines while others are "sometime later this year"
What happened to HTC's promise for open source? Why do you not release kernel and driver sources for ICS?
If there is enough attention, I would like to use social media to draw HTC's attention.
Who's with me?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well for the most part the drivers are not theirs to offer as open source. They belong to another company that will never release the source for them. The kernel sources are posted normally with in a fair amount of time.
Alot of time the carriers (For US phones) have more control over the updates then the OEM. Take the Desire HD and the US version the Inspire. The Desire HD has gotten 2 updates, one for a sercurity issue and one for a Sense version update. While the Inspire got nothing.
Give this a read and feel free to post it or add to it and make HTC hear us!
http://goo.gl/3T4NK
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
imheroldman said:
Join the crew man! There are several people who are trying to contact HTC daily for these things. Also, a true unlock solution should be on your list!
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know that I am not the only one. But to draw a big attention we need to get together and today the answer for that is social media. AFAIK, there is no social media group currently to address the issue.
On the other hand, yep you are right, adding the true unlock issue.
zelendel said:
Well for the most part the drivers are not theirs to offer as open source. They belong to another company that will never release the source for them. The kernel sources are posted normally with in a fair amount of time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Will never release the source code" is a bold statement. 25 years ago one wouldn't think an enterprise would ever release the source codes. But the times changed and the demand from the community got bigger so they were forced to and adopted a new way doing business.
This was a wave in Linux case, first the kernel was open source, now *almost* every driver is now open source, including companies like Intel.. An exception to that would be Nvidia. But with the nouveau project, sooner or later they will start to cooperate. As in Nvidia PC business most of the customers are non-Linux customers that is not yet an issue for them. On the other side, they are too under pressure on the mobile land with their tegra line.
Provided the above is correct, if there were an enough *united* community demand, first the OEMs / Carriers will be on the front line then they will turn to their hardware providers to opensource the drivers.
Correct me if I am wrong but a driver is merely a bridge between the kernel and the hardware, so I really do not get it the reason to keep it closed.
As for the kernel sources, I still do not see and 3.x.x source for devices other then Sensation and One line. ICS was released mid November. I am sure OEMs like HTC got their hands on it before that, so it is over 5 months they haven't released updates. I know that updates aren't produced overnight, yet 5+ months is quite disappointing. So I disagree with "fair amount of time" part.
zelendel said:
Alot of time the carriers (For US phones) have more control over the updates then the OEM. Take the Desire HD and the US version the Inspire. The Desire HD has gotten 2 updates, one for a sercurity issue and one for a Sense version update. While the Inspire got nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see the point here. I see the sources for "Carrier's devices" on htcdev.com. So it is not a "being open issue". On the other hand, releasing updated sources and pushing updates to devices I think are not the same things.
imheroldman said:
Give this a read and feel free to post it or add to it and make HTC hear us!
http://goo.gl/3T4NK
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Click to collapse
Great write up! But the main point I am trying to make a *united* move. So with all the respect, a blog shouldn't be the point to gather up. Having said that a text like your's would constitute the detail of the open letter I am envisioning...
Feel free to use it, the quote in the middle is from toastcfh, the rest is mine. I am fully behind what ever move there is to get HTC to really unlock their phones and give true open source codes. They are putting up a front to developers that they are friendly but the process is so hindered we have to rely on leaks and crazy s-off methods, and even with source you can no longer flash a kernel or boot image with our a pain in the neck. There are plenty of people who want these things and we do need to approach HTC as a community!
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
Been spamming them on Twitter already for weeks. Bloody HTC, I hate them now
Sent from my HTC Desire S using xda premium
imheroldman said:
There are plenty of people who want these things and we do need to approach HTC as a community!
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Click to collapse
That's the spirit we need!
Now I am not %100 knowledgeable about XDA rules. Would it be OK to post a link to this thread to every HTC device Android forum?