Related
Interesting...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20080514/tc_nf/59789
Zenoran said:
Interesting...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20080514/tc_nf/59789
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool. I'm pretty sure I'll get one. It will surely be much better than the pretty much messed-up and incapable Diamond.
I use my PDA for business purposes and couldn't care less for it in my personal world. That said, the iPhone can't touch the Windows Device in the business world.
- First there are issues with iTunes. I can't stand it and every time i tried installing it on my computer something stopped working. So unless they make it work with WMDC it won't work for me. I haven't seen (other than a virus) a software that is more invasive than iTunes!
- No WiFi Sync. I sync via Bluetooth all day long when I'm at the office.
- No or very limited customization/personalization!
- Usability! Don't take me wrong it is very user friendly in general especially if you never used a "Smart" phone/device, but try to dial a number while driving! On standard phones, you can blindly feel your way around the dial screen, not so on the iPhone. Well, if you have a PDA without numbers, you can always use voice dial and it works great for me. Not so on the iPhone. Or just try to imagine you have FAT FINGERS, then the screen doesn't work at all (not that you could dial a number on my Dash with fat fingers ) Have you ever tried to operate the iPhone in cold conditions. Well it doesn't! Something with the screen just doesn't want to work when it is very cold.
- My friend is telling me that he can't delete certain stuff of the phone. Can only be done on iTunes and then it needs to be synced. To me that sounds like a one way street. I need to sync the latest changes I have done on either device or laptop.
- No MMS
- No 3G YET, but my TMo Dash doesn't either.
- Not enough Software yet (which probably will change in a year or two). I have around $200 worth of software on my PDA and NONE is available for iPhone. This saves me carrying my laptop all over the place.
- Not available on all networks. It is a locked device and I dare you to unlock it
- You can't do that attitude.
- Why do they keep on pushing the iTunes this and iTunes that on you.
It is difficult to focus on all the good when you are used to your WM device having all the options available and then once you jump on the iPhone wagon these options are just not available.
My buddy, who took the iPhone plunge, ended up getting his old Siemens SX66 back (updated to WM6) and gave his $500 iPhone to his wife, who absolutelly loves it, she uses it mainly as a MP3 player (and sometimes as a phone).
I do love the High Res Screen, ease of use and overal looks of the iPhone. If the features and software become available it would definetly be a WM killer, but as of yet, the only people i see using an iPhone are the ones who don't really need a WM device. If I wouldn't depend on the stuff that is on my Smartphone, i'd probably have an iPhone too.
In my opinion it is a very good looking but a "Not Enough" or Simple device. Here, check it out:
http://www.tryphone.com/main.seam;j...Main&conversationPropagation=end&cid=442382#g
they are making it support activesync soon last i heard
bluetooth is not wifi activesync used to be able to sync using wifi as well as bluetooth but that was removed (so that harms wm devices too)
iphone can do mms using third party software
all iphones used outside of usa are unlocked and can use Edge or gprs networks of those countries not really with apples consent though
daleksic said:
I use my PDA for business purposes and couldn't care less for it in my personal world. That said, the iPhone can't touch the Windows Device in the business world.
- First there are issues with iTunes. I can't stand it and every time i tried installing it on my computer something stopped working. So unless they make it work with WMDC it won't work for me. I haven't seen (other than a virus) a software that is more invasive than iTunes!
- No WiFi Sync. I sync via Bluetooth all day long when I'm at the office.
- No or very limited customization/personalization!
- Usability! Don't take me wrong it is very user friendly in general especially if you never used a "Smart" phone/device, but try to dial a number while driving! On standard phones, you can blindly feel your way around the dial screen, not so on the iPhone. Well, if you have a PDA without numbers, you can always use voice dial and it works great for me. Not so on the iPhone. Or just try to imagine you have FAT FINGERS, then the screen doesn't work at all (not that you could dial a number on my Dash with fat fingers ) Have you ever tried to operate the iPhone in cold conditions. Well it doesn't! Something with the screen just doesn't want to work when it is very cold.
- My friend is telling me that he can't delete certain stuff of the phone. Can only be done on iTunes and then it needs to be synced. To me that sounds like a one way street. I need to sync the latest changes I have done on either device or laptop.
- No MMS
- No 3G YET, but my TMo Dash doesn't either.
- Not enough Software yet (which probably will change in a year or two). I have around $200 worth of software on my PDA and NONE is available for iPhone. This saves me carrying my laptop all over the place.
- Not available on all networks. It is a locked device and I dare you to unlock it
- You can't do that attitude.
- Why do they keep on pushing the iTunes this and iTunes that on you.
It is difficult to focus on all the good when you are used to your WM device having all the options available and then once you jump on the iPhone wagon these options are just not available.
My buddy, who took the iPhone plunge, ended up getting his old Siemens SX66 back (updated to WM6) and gave his $500 iPhone to his wife, who absolutelly loves it, she uses it mainly as a MP3 player (and sometimes as a phone).
I do love the High Res Screen, ease of use and overal looks of the iPhone. If the features and software become available it would definetly be a WM killer, but as of yet, the only people i see using an iPhone are the ones who don't really need a WM device. If I wouldn't depend on the stuff that is on my Smartphone, i'd probably have an iPhone too.
In my opinion it is a very good looking but a "Not Enough" or Simple device. Here, check it out:
http://www.tryphone.com/main.seam;j...Main&conversationPropagation=end&cid=442382#g
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol @ this post. you must have just used a 5 min demo from the store. the iphone can do a lot of the stuff you're complaining about.
I thought they already added activesync to iPhone? If not.. I know for sure it's coming soon.. that was AMAZING to me they were doing that...
iTunes is the thing that will probably prevent me from ever getting an iPhone though... I HATE iTunes. HATE HATE HATE. Everything apple FORCES u to use iTunes and I think it's stupid.
will be interesting to see the features of this v2 phone... I would assume that is the one they would throw on 3G.
i use itunes even though i dont have an ipod or iphone
i like it
Cool. I'm pretty sure I'll get one. It will surely be much better than the pretty much messed-up and incapable Diamond.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you used a Diamond yet? Or are you just guessing...
I think the Raphael will definately be better than the iPhone for most uses, and I also think the Diamond will be better with the ability to have a far greater number of programs...
Of course you can unlock the iPhone but you loose warranty i heard. But in europe the iPhone is provider locked as well. For example, in Austria the iPhone is sold unter T-mobile (germany as well, Deutsche Telekom), so if you want to unlock it to be able to use A1 or O2 or whatever else you have to void your warranty to be able to do that.
You just gotta jailbreak it if you want more. And that's marginally.
http://www.appletell.com/apple/comment/unlocked-iphones-to-be-sold-in-europe-the-moon/
there been rumors for awhile about them also being sold unlocked in europe
in which case apple will have to give warrenty
l3v5y said:
Have you used a Diamond yet? Or are you just guessing...
I think the Raphael will definately be better than the iPhone for most uses, and I also think the Diamond will be better with the ability to have a far greater number of programs...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think he was being sarcastic
as far as unlocked iphones people are now buying these "hi-phones" which they're making claims are better than iphone to begin with... haven't seen a 3g version of it though
l3v5y said:
Have you used a Diamond yet? Or are you just guessing...
I think the Raphael will definately be better than the iPhone for most uses, and I also think the Diamond will be better with the ability to have a far greater number of programs...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It depends. 4GB storage is plain insufficient in a multimedia device. This device has been killed on the drawing board.
And if the GUI will be as slow as on the videos, it'll be really hard to use.
Of course, I don't disagree the Diamon has a lot more apps. It's just that I also have an iPAQ 210 in my poxket so I have something high-end to run my WinMo apps on- my phone doesn't necessarily need be a WinMo phone. This is why I have a Nokia N95 as my generic multimedia phone right now.
Yeah, the unlock iPhone rumor, is just that a rumor. Trust me, my friend came to visit me here in US with his Austrian iPhone and he ended up with one of my old Nokia phones while he was here as the iPhone was locked. He asked for unlock but Tmo will not budge on this one. Any other phone they will send you the SIM unlock codes wihtin 24 hours. Besides TMo Europe and TMo US are 2 complete separate units and for some reason they are not communicating that well with each other. That's unfortunate, they could have an awesome worldwide network.
After looking at the presentation of IPhone 3G v3.0 and already have read the articles about the WM v6.5 and v7.0, a huge disappointment came over me.
You see I am a top shouter in my environment for the HTC phones which are all equipped with the WM OS's.
The greatest impression on me where some articles about guys(who seemed in my eyes a real priority on this, i am dutch so not quickly impressed by anything), who wrote all similar story's about the WM v6.5/7.0. Stating Microsoft is not at all doing anything to compete with the Google and APPLE OS's. There are just very few improvements and absolutely not at all impressive enough as the IPhone OS.
Reading some article they are looking for a lead developer for the new core for WM v7.0 are not honored and contradicting, like saying oke guys i know the current OS is ****ty so we need to start over, can anyone help us?
That is not the sort of message I as WM lover like to hear.
It seems that Apple is just about the only one who is really listening to the users and they are working their ass off getting all requested functionality integrated. APPLE have done more on the OS in 1 year then Microsoft did on all development of the WM versions.
I am working at an IT company where the IPhone is making a serious entry and I am working at support and people asking me for information getting the IPhone working with the company applications. and guess what, it is sooooooo much easier getting it setup then every other WM-device i have seen. And they seem to shrink in number at the company.
Now I am really in love with the HTC-devices, but i am slowly getting confused by the latest IPHONE OS.
I expect that Microsoft will loose this battle due to their arrogance and dragging all major mobile company's down with it. So expect another crisis in a year or 3 because now the smart phones are booming but people will come to their senses and they switch to IPhone after their subscriber to the providers has ended.
So please bring me to my senses and say I am totally wrong!!
yes and no
the problem is migrators. people whove had there nokias and stuff then want a better device. theyll run to iphone dueto the flashy marketing and support
bu winmo is more like an old pair of sneakers. sure theyre ugly aan dirty
but they do the job they were built to do. in my opinion as long as they do there job making it work i can do my job making it look pretty. coz id rather get ther in my old confy sneakers to get there than getting blisters from a new pair
i dont think any die hard winmo fan will move not really because at the end of the day we always go back to those old trainers
ive got a headache now
stop making me use my brain
i went from iphone to iphone 3g to windows mobile
i prefer my diamond to be honest even thou iphone can do alot more in ways the diamond does more in other ways
hands down id rather go with diamond or pro
@jayjay8585
Thanks for your response.
I hope you are familiar with ice skating?
They where skating years and years on the normal skates and the fastest times stayed longer and longer on the list.
Then someone decided to change the skate(klikskate, the iron comes half lose when lifting the skate) so significantly everybody said out loud that will not work, so they tried it a bit but went back to their old skates(sneakers).
Until someone who always was just under the top 10 decided, oke I reeeeeeealy going to try this and trained for 2 years on it.
So the next major tournament this person broke all long standing records.
Now everybody is using the new ice skates and up until now, records keep broken almost every new major tournament.
Shortly: I half agree with the sneaker story but it will not hold on the long term.
Microsoft just messed up to big, so if Bill wants to see another billion or 2 added on the Forbes list he has to get serious on this.
Windows Mobile 7 is not even beta yet so how can you be making comparisons with that OS? And while apple has added features to bring it on par with modern smartphones I personally am too used to the freedom of using a device of my own choosing with whatever carrier I choose and not being tied to using apple software and hardware products.
Here is what I have to say about the iPhone. The iPhone............
iPhone = Flashy Fashiontoy laden with DRM Crap no one here wants. Period.
Yup!
jadephyre said:
iPhone = Flashy Fashiontoy laden with DRM Crap no one here wants. Period.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quoted for the Mo-Fo'm truth!
How about the g1? It listens to its users the users and devs nake this phone better everydaay. I have had my for just over a week and don't know how I livd without it. I love how it works It can do all the iphone can and more. My main thing is it needs flash player other than that. also anyone seen or have any ideas on the new plam?
I personally wouldn't touch the G1 even if my life depended on it... Someone has to remove all the frickin' Google Crap from the OS (mandatory googlemail acc, anyone ?) before I'd be willing to shell out a few hundred bucks for one of these.
I'm not willing to let Google put a leash up my ass...
To the above guy. Besides making a mail account that's ur only leash. That beats being to to steve and bill in my opion. U can change the browser and well just about every u can get a lot of apps on line. U don't have to use the market that came on the phone everything is open.
the G1 I tested required a Googlemail Account.
Granted, I already have one and only Spam gets redirected there, but I don't want Google to know who i have as Contacts on my Sim and my Appointments no one has to read either.
Google on G1 = No Phone for me
Well whre are getting that they do that? And if they do why dosent everyone else? I figuer all cell phone data is almost public anyways
just wanted to add my 2 pence worth.
I've only had 2 WM devices so far, the XDA Exec and now the Touch Dual.
As much as I've enjoyed playing with these, I'm starting to really like the look of the iPhone. Everyone I speak to that has one say they love it because it does what is says on the lid. It works.
I'm fed up with having to reset my phone when it crashes on an incoming call, or re-syncing it to my BT car Hands free set...............
I've had to work hard and rely on the good devs here (thanks folks)to be able to get to a point where my phone is just about stable.
The iPhone is starting to look like a possability when my contract is up in six months
WM 6.5 will make it better as well as ROM Cookers. I have the Iphone 3G - in the box. Yes its flashy and its more fluid I like the control I have over my Touch HD. I like being able to flash it and try it out. I like the fact that I can change the BATTERY out on it. I like the ability to sync with Outlook, I like the fact that there are many many apps for the WM 6.1 and 6.5(when it becomes available).
And I like my screen resolution and Garmin XT NAV
Oh yeah.. Did I mention that I hate ITUNES and DRM?
jadephyre said:
the G1 I tested required a Googlemail Account.
Granted, I already have one and only Spam gets redirected there, but I don't want Google to know who i have as Contacts on my Sim and my Appointments no one has to read either.
Google on G1 = No Phone for me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you do realize that you can turn off syncing, which means that you wont send any data to the google acct. so none of your contacts/appointments will leave your phone, and gmail wont sync. if you root your G1 you dont even have to use a google acct.
This is an article from BRIGHTHAND:
Cut, Copy, and Paste
Confirming the earlier rumors, iPhone 3.0 will -- finally -- allow iPhone users to cut-and-paste and copy-and-paste. Naturally, the process for selecting text will take advantage of this device's multi-touch screen. This feature will be available in Apple's own software and third-party apps.
And it extends to more than just text. Users will be able to copy images and paste them into an email.
MMS, A2DP, Etc.
iPhone 3.0 will also mark the arrival of other features long available in the iPhone's competitors, including MMS messaging, Stereo Bluetooth, device search, and voice memos.
In addition, landscape support is being added to more of the bundled applications.
Apple is also going to release a new SDK (software developer kit) for handling streaming audio and video, including HDTV streaming.
Still No Multitasking
Apple had some good news and bad news for users. The bad news is that it's still not allowing multitasking because running third-party applications in the background is more than the device can handle. Scott Forstall, Apple SVP iPhone Software, who handled much of today's presentation, said that an IM application running in the background reduced the iPhone's standby battery time by 80%.
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I don't think the iPhone is able to beat anybody yet, as you can see, the above upgrade or fix to the coming iPhone 3 are qualities that should have been there since it's first release. They are still playing catch-up to Windows Mobile.
The only thing I like about the iPhone is the speed. Other than that, nothing else. With more powerful processor coming out, this will definitely be a brighter future for WM.
mavrik64 said:
I'm fed up with having to reset my phone when it crashes on an incoming call, or re-syncing it to my BT car Hands free set...............
I've had to work hard and rely on the good devs here (thanks folks)to be able to get to a point where my phone is just about stable.
The iPhone is starting to look like a possability when my contract is up in six months
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to see you are having trouble, but for me, my setup is very stable. No crashes nor freezes, so I am happy with Windows Mobile. BT works flawlessly too. I believe stability is related to what applications you have installed. I have about 350 applications and games installed, you just need to try them one by one and see which one causes the problem. This is the proceedure I do each time I upgrade my device. By the way, I have an HTC Advantage X7510. I just use my HTC Universal as the test subject nowadays.
I'd like to thank those brave enough to say that the iPhone does in fact pose a huge problem to WM, and those brave enough to say that they're willing to move away. Another thing I'd like to say is that being tied to a carrier/network that you don't like is not actually an argument against the iPhone, rather the circumstances surrounding it. Let's keep this thread based around an SIM-unlocked iPhone for a change. Also, let's just look at the OS, and not the extras HTC/Samsung/SE has overlayed on top.
Now, let's face it, WM is losing appeal- fast. WM is dynamic and flexible- almost like an open-source OS, but the UI is outdated and still bears an uncanny resemblance to it's oldest predecessor almost 10 whole years ago. Also, it can get laggy, and crashes even on stock ROMs, so there's another bunch of disadvantages.
Not much left. Let's hope WM7 saves MS.
I agree 100% with cktlcmd.
Thanks for putting it exactly how I would,
so I don't have to think.
This is what I'm feeling so far.......... (my two cents)
I love my wimo (6700, 8525, tilt and now touch Pro) and at first I use to tell people that only way that iPhone is making a killing is because how they advertised the phone.
People with iPhones use to be like your phone looks and feels like a brick. I will tell them how the wimo can do all types of things, so they started coming back to me and showing how once they jail break the phone they can do about all most the same thing. I would laugh and say well you still can't get mms, teathering, or cut/paste......3.0 is coming out for the iPhone, now I feel like hiding from the ones I laughed at.
If Microsoft is reading......please help us out, because the reason I love the phones is because they can do wonders but now I'm starting to feel like an old school guy with and old phone not willing to give up.............We (I hope I can speak for all the wimo people) spend at alot of time and money on these phone and just want a little something back, beside a new phone......think about the inside the phone and help us out so we can stay and be the top dogs again.
I know you guys probably heard this a thousand times (and a forum search shows this) and what I'm about to say is probably very cliche, but the iPhone is a pretty amazing device.
Typically, I am a WM man (I currently own an HTC Touch Pro), and I've owned WM phones/devices for a long time now. I tried other OSes (Symbian, Palm OS), but ultimately, I prefer WM. When the iPhone first appeared, I disregarded it almost entirely because it's made by Apple. As someone familiar with Apple, I just didn't like them very much (largely due to their design philosophy).
Things didn't look like they were about to change. In fact, the next phones I was seriously looking at was the Toshiba TG01, Samsung Omnia HD i9810, and Samsung Omnia Pro B7610. Two of these are Windows Mobile and one is Symbian (which I was less likely to get anyway). The only major difference is that they aren't HTC (I want to move away from HTC because I exceedingly dislike Qualcomm).
However, something special happened yesterday: My friend invited me to lunch and he showed me his new iPhone 3GS. He allowed me to play with it.
In one word: Incredible!
As my intuition knew, I ended up not liking the design of the OS (I still prefer WM's design), but I couldn't really deny how well made the iPhone really is. More than anything else, I really have to compliment how extremely optimized it really is. Opening any software, going to the home screen, playing movies/music, and doing just about anything really was incredibly smooth. The entire time I was with my friend, I just gushed and gushed about this one aspect. The reason why is because it really is incredible how fast everything was.
The truth is that when compared side to side with my Touch Pro, the speed is really the same. However, a few things to note. First, everyone know how the iPhone seems to use "gradual transitions"? To elaborate, whenever you do anything, such as opening software or rotation, it is done in real time, and you can see the changes with your eyes. This is as opposed to WM where it is done immediately (for example, rotating with my TP results in an immediate change as opposed to you seeing the screen rotate on the iPhone).
This seems like a minor thing, but it has a large effect on perception. Notably, it makes you perceive it as being faster. When I counted down the seconds on the iPhone and WM, I noticed that opening programs and rotation are really done at the same speed, but the iPhone's gradual transition effects makes you perceive it as being faster, which is actually pretty nice.
Second thing and a very important point: My TP uses a custom ROM, which is why its speed was on par with that of the iPhone. If it had been using the stock ROM, I am positive that the iPhone would have crushed it in speed.
This seems like a moot point because I *can* use custom ROMs, but note that this forum and all of its custom ROMs are largely exclusive to HTC phones (with the sole exception of the Xperia...which was made by HTC anyway). What happens if I decide to use another WM phone (for example, the Samsung B7610)? Then I would have no choice but to remain with the stock ROM or at least hope someone would develop the stray ROM for the Samsung devices (such as the i900 on XDA).
At this point, I'm also willing to blame the speed issue on hardware. After all, the iPhone is about 72MHZ faster than my phone, and it also also has a dedicated graphics chip. On the other hand, I also have to take into consideration that it takes a custom, optimized ROM for my device to keep up with the stock ROM on a series of device which is notorious for being outdated (anyone remember the iPhone 2G)?
If anyone is wondering, am I thinking about switching to the dark side? Unfortunately, no. While the huge number of apps and the great speed is tantalizing, I am still the guy who frequently spends 4+ hours changing the ROMs on his phones (and tweaking it afterwards). I'm also the guy who frequently goes into the settings menu because he nitpicks about how each little thing on his phone works.
Can I switch to something that won't allow me that much customization? Speaking as someone who's about to change the ROM on his phone again, the answer appears to be a pretty clear 'no' as this point.
On, the other hand, while playing with the iPhone, I did find myself wishing that the Windows Mobile experience was as smooth, and great as with the iPhone, especially on stock ROMs. I also did find myself wondering what Windows Mobile 7 will be like (I can't wonder with WM6.5 because I'm using it now). But of course, what do people saying about wishing too much? It's useless.
Am I going mad?
I'd take an iphone over any WM device any day of the week, but I absolutely refuse to pay $70+ a month just to use it.
Exactly how many apps are there for windows mobile?
Until recently I assumed that WinMo>Symbian>Iphone.
Apparently that's wrong.
I was going to buy one with all the other sheep but decided to buy an ipod touch. Works great, but the first time I put it in my pocket and crouched down a bit later it nealy killed it!
Screen went a nice mix of colours and it totally stopped working. Quite a few plug ins to the computer and it came back to life.
There just to fragile and to big(iphone is thicker than the touch also), good girls phone or if you carry a handbag.
Glade I got the Jade not a problem so far.
thedigitel said:
I'd take an iphone over any WM device any day of the week, but I absolutely refuse to pay $70+ a month just to use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that the AT&T contract you have to sign up for to get an iPhone? If that's the case, why not just buy the iPhone unlocked? It's expensive, but it cost about as much as any HTC phone I've seen.
charge1313 said:
Exactly how many apps are there for windows mobile?
Until recently I assumed that WinMo>Symbian>Iphone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As of right now, the iPhone has roughly 50K-60K of apps while the last article detailing how many apps Windows Mobile seems to have stopped at 20K. Futhermore, the iPhone famously beaten Windows Mobile in reaching 25K apps, and I find it highly unlikely that Windows Mobile caught up.
Even from an outside perspective, though, it seems to me that the iPhone has an impressive number of apps, including a plethora of ones that Windows Mobile never seems to get (or is even capable of getting).
stu-k said:
I was going to buy one with all the other sheep but decided to buy an ipod touch. Works great, but the first time I put it in my pocket and crouched down a bit later it nealy killed it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, the iPod Touch would make sense, but I would rather not have to carry two devices around. It seems better to me to have an all-in-one device in this case and, if nothing else, it would allow me to utilize the numerous phone-related apps in the app store.
I entirely agree.
My wife has a Gen 1 iphone, and I recently updated it to version 3 and unlocked and jailbreaked.
In the old days, WM had thousands of apps as one of its killer features.
I recently spent a few evenings installing apps on the wife's phone, and I was blown away. Not necessarily by the quality, but by the experience.
Everything is smooth, everything works, the user experience is "unchallenging".
I love tweaking, I love coding, I love spending MONTHS dissecting the WinMob OS to implement a tiny hack. But you know what? Why bother?!
I can't see myself giving up on WinMob - it's got momentum, and I can't be bothered to learn Objective C. I'm barely coping with C++ as it is.
But, to paraphrase Gauntlet, "WinMob [may be] about to die".
In defence of WinMob:
It's p*sses me off something crazy that when Gizmondo et all were reviewing the Palm Pre, multi tasking was one of the killer features. WinMob has had it FOREVER.
It's a good OS, it multitasks, it generally works, it can make calls and emails and whatnot.
But - the user experience is OLD.
And I think one of the most fundamental flaws is also one of the biggest strengths - WinMob runs on a hundred kinds of hardware. But the problem:
WinMob runs on a hundred kinds of hardware.
Some of those have graphic accelerators, some don't.
Some have dpads, some don't.
Some have 600mhz CPUs, some don't.
The iphone is a single homogeneous ecosystem.
Coders know they can anti-alias without trying to code to the lowest common denominator 200mhz phone with 16mb of ram. They know exactly what they're gonna get with an iphone. And that fact means they know the limitations, and how to pitch what they've got at the right performance considerations. They know what they're working on. The Human Interface spec is incredible, and incredibly helpful. Users expect an experience, naturally, because it feels natural. Apple encourages that, and coders have to honour it.
I think most of the iphone experience can and should be emulated on WinMob.
I'm not just talking about cloning Springboard and everything else. Yes, we can emulate this and that - our coders on XDA devs are incredible, and could do every bit of it.
But we need more: the experience of just being able to use the phone and expect it to work needs to be emulated.
I don't think the iphone is necessarily a better piece of hardware: I prefer my Touch HD. But clearly the user experience, the user interface paradigm, the reward of just being able to use the thing easily needs to be implemented - from the ground up.
I don't think this is going to happen on WinMob; I think the strength/limitations of a wide open platform means this probably can't happen. I think that like Win CE before it, WinMob will end up being relegated to a certain environment that has low expectations (eg Enterprise markets).
But if "Windows" devices are going to survive, I think the change has to happen at a much higher level. I can only hope that Pink or whatever is on the horizon for WinMob 7 is an integrated piece of hardware and user experience designed from the ground up to feel like it's the 21st century... using WinMob out of pity is going to get old, very very soon.
V
8525Smart said:
Well, the iPod Touch would make sense, but I would rather not have to carry two devices around. It seems better to me to have an all-in-one device in this case and, if nothing else, it would allow me to utilize the numerous phone-related apps in the app store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have to agree, I hate carry around two devices. Hence no longer use Ipod touch on the go, just leave it at home in docking station, which its good for.
Use the Jade for music and a phone which fits on my pocket.
I find the istore apps mostly gimmicks anyways, which you pay for and never use.
A smaller tougher Iphone would be good
vijay555 said:
I entirely agree.
In defence of WinMob:
It's p*sses me off something crazy that when Gizmondo et all were reviewing the Palm Pre, multi tasking was one of the killer features. WinMob has had it FOREVER.
It's a good OS, it multitasks, it generally works, it can make calls and emails and whatnot.
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Click to collapse
Oh my God, yes, YES!
I can't count the number of times I had to defend WinMo against people who obviously never used it. The number of ridiculously comments I seen was ludicrous and often times seem as if the people saying it were just parroting common criticisms as opposed to their actual experience.
One guy I saw even suggested that receiving text/emails and switching between apps was impossible.
On the other hand, I agree with the rest of your post too (as is the subject of my topic). I think you really hit the nail on the head: Windows Mobile's biggest strength, its availability on multiple phones, is also its biggest weakness.
As an owner of a Fuze, an HTC phone with an accelerometer, the lack of accelero-meter WinMo apps makes it very apparent.
I do agree with you that Microsoft needs to do something, at the very least, about the user experience, but I really don't see how it can be done. The iPhone is able to achieve this because it is a software available on one hardware designed by Apple themselves. In order for Microsoft to achieve the same quality of apps or user experience, they would have to design Windows Mobile to take advantage of a particular hardware specification.
As of currently, the best Microsoft can probably achieve is to design Windows Mobile with the best optimization they can while maintaining good compatibility and appearance with a wide number of hardware.
stu-k said:
HI find the istore apps mostly gimmicks anyways, which you pay for and never use.
A smaller tougher Iphone would be good
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That may be true, but to be fair, the Windows Mobile landscape isn't exactly clear of 'gimmicky' apps either. Some of them even inspired by iPhone equivalents.
HDWobble, anyone?
The 3GS is faster not because of the clock speed, but because the A8 Cortex beats the pants out of the (very long in the tooth) ARM11 in the TP (and TP2, why HTC, why?!!!).
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3595&p=4
This is going to see as an odd first post but i am a jailbroken and unlocked iphone user. I have been tinkering with the iphone the way you guys tinker with winmo for 2 years now. To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Some of THE BEST apps for the iphone are not in the apple app store because apple would never allow it.
I myself am starting to look at the TP2 and winmo phones because i was REALLLLLLLLLLLLY looking forward to the Nokia N97 and that thing just let me down a ton. I have a HTC Hero coming to play with for a while but besides the widgets i don't see a whole lot different between the new TF3D 2 on the TP2 or the TD2 and the Hero.
There are tons of useful 3rd party jailbroken apps and hacks that you can do that make the iphone even THAT much more useable. For instance the 3rd party text messaging applications are w/o question better than the stock apple version however because how they are designed they would never be approved for the app store. Also, there is a hack app called "backgrounder" which allows me to run apps in the background and multi task.
jim_0068 said:
This is going to see as an odd first post but i am a jailbroken and unlocked iphone user. I have been tinkering with the iphone the way you guys tinker with winmo for 2 years now. To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Some of THE BEST apps for the iphone are not in the apple app store because apple would never allow it.
I myself am starting to look at the TP2 and winmo phones because i was REALLLLLLLLLLLLY looking forward to the Nokia N97 and that thing just let me down a ton. I have a HTC Hero coming to play with for a while but besides the widgets i don't see a whole lot different between the new TF3D 2 on the TP2 or the TD2 and the Hero.
There are tons of useful 3rd party jailbroken apps and hacks that you can do that make the iphone even THAT much more useable. For instance the 3rd party text messaging applications are w/o question better than the stock apple version however because how they are designed they would never be approved for the app store. Also, there is a hack app called "backgrounder" which allows me to run apps in the background and multi task.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy crap are you talking about the iPhone? Is the backgrounder for the iPhone? Can I have more information on how this works?
Here is a more important question... will the backgrounder app allow 3rd party alarm applications to finally work on the iPhone?
Will the backgrounder also allow automatic profile scheduling?
poetryrocksalot said:
Holy crap are you talking about the iPhone? Is the backgrounder for the iPhone? Can I have more information on how this works?
Here is a more important question... will the backgrounder app allow 3rd party alarm applications to finally work on the iPhone?
Will the backgrounder also allow automatic profile scheduling?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes. but Backgrounder is not compatible with the new 3.0 OS.
and on the 3G you do not exactly have lots of Ram to spare though. only ~34MB after a reset. and applications are not exactly light weight.
i believe profile scheduling is available through other means. but have not really looked into it. Performance really takes a nose dive when you start asking it to do extra stuff due to the lack of Ram.
crazy talk said:
yes. but Backgrounder is not compatible with the new 3.0 OS.
and on the 3G you do not exactly have lots of Ram to spare though. only ~34MB after a reset. and applications are not exactly light weight.
i believe profile scheduling is available through other means. but have not really looked into it. Performance really takes a nose dive when you start asking it to do extra stuff due to the lack of Ram.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh that's a shame... this app is useless then. I heard that Apple is considering the idea of having full support for background applications.
The problem is that:
1) Apple knows that not many people care about "background" applications.
2) Consumer common sense is distorted in that they don't understand the purpose of multi-task. They believe that multi-task is already on the iPhone because obviously, you can "exit the application into another application". This isn't the point, a true multitasking system requires A) background applications B) automation of background functions and C) the ability to switch tasks in the foreground of an application.
3) Apple knows that adding background applications will result in people complaining of slowness because 1) Alot of people still don't know what RAM is, not even my sister who is a 4+ year college student working on her masters and 2) Alot of people do not know how to manage a platform involving background applications and 3) average consumers would rather sacrifice functionality for ease-of-use.
I believe the emphasis of this multi-tasking is not a multi-tasking complaint. Idiots are prone to think that the iPhone already has multi-tasking; I've seem them argue about it. We need to add a mentality to people in which they learn that it isn't about multi-tasking, it's about background applications and how we need applications to function in the background.
Well the 3GS has double the ram and faster processor, hopefully they (third-parties) can find a way to make actual multi-tasking more plausible.
new beast in town
the android os is really taking shape and will soon be king. with so many different devices coming aboard this thing will be huge. the g1 now is awesome with just a little tweaking and those who don't want to tweak there are 2 more ota coming in the next 5 months.
nonzenze said:
The 3GS is faster not because of the clock speed, but because the A8 Cortex beats the pants out of the (very long in the tooth) ARM11 in the TP (and TP2, why HTC, why?!!!).
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3595&p=4
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Click to collapse
Hmm, very informative read, Thank you,
So the 3GS apparently has a superior CPU in more ways than one, which I'm not really surprised about. I did mentioned that I did not like HTC's choice of CPUs...which they're still using in their newest devices. Many other devices are already using the Cortex A8, so if it is the case that HTC is losing out due to the CPU, then that doesn't bode well for their future phones.
jim_0068 said:
To the original poster, if you are such a tinkerer and want to tinker with something new a jailbroken iphone is for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, everything you said is true. A jailbroken iPhone is a very nice thing and probably does well for tinkerers. In fact, the 3GS that my friend let me used was jailbroken too.
However, truthfully, installing apps that lets me do new things wasn't what I was really referring to before. Instead, I was largely referring to the changing of ROMs/OS. I believe the iPhone has made some progress running Linux, but nothing else as far as I can see. WM Phone has so many different ROMs available and progress has been made on running Linux (including Android) too. This allows for much more customization, in my opinion as you get the benefit of software-based customization combined with ROM/OS-based.
Besides, it's pretty fun to be running Windows Mobile 6.5 while everyone else is still using Windows Mobile 6.1.
Guys, rumours are the Pink/Zune Phone will be a Win 7 derived device based on hardware designed by Microsoft.
If they pull that off, as they say, "I'd buy that for a dollar".
V
My opinion is that in order to be a solid competitor, Microsoft needs to limit the hardware choices for their platform. HTC does a great job at making devices for Windows Mobile. Microsoft needs to pair up with them to make their own phone. With the new Zune HD coming out featuring the nVidia Tegra chipset, it would make a wonderful platform to build the next generation WM phone from. The thing is, it should be the only phone featuring WM 7 Professsional. It will enable Microsoft to fine tune WM to use every bit of the phone's capabilities, leaving nothing to be desired. Much like they do with their PC OS's, there can be several versions of the main OS with steps in capabilities. Their Zune HD phone should be the candidate for WM7 Ultimate, which would feature smooth transitions and speed.
Edit: Just saw the post above mine. I need to read more!
vijay555 said:
Guys, rumours are the Pink/Zune Phone will be a Win 7 derived device based on hardware designed by Microsoft.
If they pull that off, as they say, "I'd buy that for a dollar".
V
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Click to collapse
Rumors are a bit too little to get excited, in my opinion. The possibility of a true iPhone competitor by Microsoft sounds amazing, but it's a bit underwhelming at this point.
We have no knowledge of the OS, no knowledge of the important specs (CPU, RAM, multimedia capabilities, etc) aside from Tegra, and the little specs that is publicly available kind of sucks. 3.3in screen with 480x272 res? Call me picky, but I would have hoped for 3.5-3.7in with at least 640x480.
Still, I have not followed the news of the Zune HD, and it does, indeed, look pretty amazing. The Os does at least. The Zune HD's OS appears to work amazingly well; It is incredibly fast and smooth.
8525Smart said:
Rumors are a bit too little to get excited, in my opinion. The possibility of a true iPhone competitor by Microsoft sounds amazing, but it's a bit underwhelming at this point.
We have no knowledge of the OS, no knowledge of the important specs (CPU, RAM, multimedia capabilities, etc) aside from Tegra, and the little specs that is publicly available kind of sucks. 3.3in screen with 480x272 res? Call me picky, but I would have hoped for 3.5-3.7in with at least 640x480.
Still, I have not followed the news of the Zune HD, and it does, indeed, look pretty amazing. The Os does at least. The Zune HD's OS appears to work amazingly well; It is incredibly fast and smooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really think the only company that can actually create a truly direct competitor to Apple and iPhone is Microsoft...it's the name and not the product.....
Apple had a bad rep back then and now they are doing good.
It seems like Microsoft is tagged after Apple jumped the boat to success.
We'll just have to wait for Microsoft to adopt Apple's precedent.
With Microsoft directly creating their own phone and not just an OS, we might actually get a true iPhone killer. Though Microsoft may have to revamp the entire OS and create their own line of OS totally unrelated to Windows Mobile.
Hello everyone!
I will buy a new phone this week and i want to know your opinion to decide which model should i decide for.
In relation to Operative Systems, in terms of apps, games, development, contacts, and updates, it's better to chose Android or WM?
And what models do you reccomend in the OS that you indicate?
Thank's!
Unless there's a specific WM application you need (which appears to be the case so far, there is some specific scientific measurement application that does not exist on Android) then I would say go to Android. That is, if you've never used either before: Android all the way.
Model? HTC Desire
Which Phone OS Should I Select?
APista said:
Hello everyone!
I will buy a new phone this week and i want to know your opinion to decide which model should i decide for.
In relation to Operative Systems, in terms of apps, games, development, contacts, and updates, it's better to chose Android or WM?
And what models do you reccomend in the OS that you indicate?
Thank's!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know that WM is on its last legs, but I still love it and the HTC phones that use the OS. But just looking at a phone is just the first step. Look at the cost, not only of the phone but of the 2 year service contract (especially with the data plan). For example, the phone may be $200 but the 2 year service may add over $2400 to that cost.
And what about service? AT&T is threatening to limit internet use. Sprint (which has the best Android phone, the Evo) may have poor coverage in your area.
Is there hidden fees? I hear that Verizon still has roaming fees within the US.
So don't just look at which OS is best, look at the whole picture. It can get very frustrating if those monthly bills keep growing or that dropped calls is an issue, or that the use of the internet is limited, especially if you are tied to a 2 year contract.
I recently switched to Android after using WM for over 4 years. I don't regret it a bit. Android is the future.
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App
It really just depends on your interests. I have a thing for having my phone work exactly how I want it, I make lists of thing I don't like and find solutions for all of my problems. So if your a totally anal perfectionist, wm may just be your thing.
I don't have much experience with android, but my experiences were pretty positive. The only thing that bothers me is the reliance on hardware buttons to go back and home. It just seems like a bit annoying for me. But its definetly the future, there are thousands of apps and very good support across the forums.
For windows mobile, if you like touching and stuff, HD2 is definetly the way.
For android I'm not 100% sure but I hear the evo and desire are good. Personally pretty much all the android phones look pretty much the same to me.
Pretty much, if you want the smoothest, most pretty and reliable experience, go android.
If you want total customisation and be able to modify the device to suit your needs, go
WM.
On the subject of plans and whatnot, I always buy my phones outright and go prepaid since its the best option for me. But its up to you about your plans.
Android wins here. No contest.
I'm not even putting into consideration that WinMo 6.x is no longer being developed.
I'm going to assume that you've used WinMo before and have not used Android yet. If you have, you wouldn't be asking this.
You may have just flashed a new ROM on your WinMo device. You would think it's fast and snappy. But in fact, compared to even an average Android device, your tricked out WinMo device is actually still significantly slower.
http://jason-says.blogspot.com/2010/03/reasons-i-leaving-windows-mobile-for.html
http://jason-says.blogspot.com/2010/04/thoughts-on-android-from-former-windows.html
can someone please give me some good reason not to switch to an iphone 4
codyh666 said:
can someone please give me some good reason not to switch to an iphone 4
Click to expand...
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Inappropriate thread.
Because the iPhone is GAY
Luke
I agree with the Loon .
Q & A section really is for operating the phone or solving problems with it.
This is more a little Chit Chat for General so I'm moving it.
lukesdiesel said:
Because the iPhone is GAY
Luke
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And if this thread get's only non constructive jokes, I will also need to close it.
(No this is not an invite to make non constructive jokes to get this thread closed)
im sorry im new so i didnt know that thank you for moving it and i didnt mean to upset anyone its just that my htc thunderbolt has been giving me problems and i was wondering if anyone had good reasons that would make me not switch to the iphone
codyh666 said:
im sorry im new so i didnt know that thank you for moving it and i didnt mean to upset anyone its just that my htc thunderbolt has been giving me problems and i was wondering if anyone had good reasons that would make me not switch to the iphone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who cares. switch if you want...or don't. If you aren't computer inclined to tinker with stuff and want something that sort of works for what the average person wants in a phone, then switch. However, most people won't admit it, but by the time they ask someone else for advice, they already made up their mind. They just want someone to agree with them that they are right. Only reason I would ever want a fruit based device is if I plan on porting something I develop for Android to it for testing. Would I use it outside of development? No way. However I don't care what platform it is when it comes to selling something (except the amazon app store, won't even put something on there).
well, if your an apple kiddie, why'd you drift away in the first place? you need to look deep into your soul and question your loyalty to apple.
that and seeing as how ios and android are completely different, it's like saying "should I get a girlfriend or a boyfriend?"
voxigenboy said:
well, if your an apple kiddie, why'd you drift away in the first place? you need to look deep into your soul and question your loyalty to apple.
that and seeing as how ios and android are completely different, it's like saying "should I get a girlfriend or a boyfriend?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well the reason i got the htc thunderbolt was because of the 4g and how android was customizable but ive had the phone for 8 months now and the 4g drains the battery so much and ive never had an iphone my first phone was the motorola cliq so im not an apple kiddie
I just recently switched from carrier.
I was on T-Mobile and now am on Vodafone.
I now have HSDPA+ and that does indeed suck more battery then the HSDPA from T-mobile i had before.
Myself I can live with having my device with the data being turned off.
I'm not that hooked on being informed 24/7 about everything.
So that saves me more juice, so I can listen to more Music over Bluetooth.
I've never used an iPhone on a day to day basis so i really have no idea how that handles battery on a good 4G network.
But iPhone is over the hill and it now has good competition of great new and sexy devices.
Maybe Nokia makes a good come back with good battery time, but there's more out there then just the iPhone as an alternative.
Also there could always be something to tweak, from updating your phone's radio to a better suited version (not necessarily the newest).
Or Checking if there's applications getting stuck in sync or keeping your device from deep sleep to managing your syncing schedules.
Keep it clean guys, be Cool like me
Galaxy Nexus when it comes out, gonna be a hot phone.
well i rooted my phone and i dont like how my phone wont work with so much stuff,and i changed the radio to a battery conserving one and i see no difference and im also tired of sense and im waiting for a port of ics for the htc thunderbolt
Noonski said:
I just recently switched from carrier.
I was on T-Mobile and now am on Vodafone.
I now have HSDPA+ and that does indeed suck more battery then the HSDPA from T-mobile i had before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I think any connection upgrade for data on a phone does that from observation. It did when carriers were going from 2g to 3g as well. It'll get better over time as phones improve I am sure. One generally doesnt need 20-30+Mbps anyways to view a web page so toggling works okay for me.
codyh666 said:
can someone please give me some good reason not to switch to an iphone 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me, the biggest reason is that Android is an open infrastructure.
Instead of the choice of a single phone (choice of iPhones only because the generations overlap), I can choose from many. Instead of only apps vetted by a manufacturer at there own whims, there are multiple sources available. Not even a need for an app store. Apps I buy can be carried to other/different phones. The competition between manufacturers means more choices - if you want a hard keyboard, you can have that. Want HDMI out? Available. Want removable memory? Yep. Replaceable battery for extended time away from power? Got it. Ruggedized phone? It's out there.
Some people don't want to get involved with technological decisions - 1.5 GHz? Dual core?, etc. The iPhone is great for them - just buy the latest one.
mike.s said:
For me, the biggest reason is that Android is an open infrastructure.
Instead of the choice of a single phone (choice of iPhones only because the generations overlap), I can choose from many. Instead of only apps vetted by a manufacturer at there own whims, there are multiple sources available. Not even a need for an app store. Apps I buy can be carried to other/different phones. The competition between manufacturers means more choices - if you want a hard keyboard, you can have that. Want HDMI out? Available. Want removable memory? Yep. Replaceable battery for extended time away from power? Got it. Ruggedized phone? It's out there.
Some people don't want to get involved with technological decisions - 1.5 GHz? Dual core?, etc. The iPhone is great for them - just buy the latest one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thank you, you are the first person to actually help me and i like android its just im tired of getting a new phone and having a better one come out a week later
codyh666 said:
well i rooted my phone and i dont like how my phone wont work with so much stuff,and i changed the radio to a battery conserving one and i see no difference and im also tired of sense and im waiting for a port of ics for the htc thunderbolt
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you elaborate on "phone wont work with so much stuff", you have more access to what you can do when the phone is rooted. Are you meaning the vzw apps?
My suggestion, install CM7, if you still want a new phone after using that wait for the galaxy nexus.
Since verizon started carrying the iphone 4 back in feb, I just this past week sold 2 iphones for the first time.
Most people only want the phone because "my <insert person> has it". The fact that 4g is faster, battery is built in to iphone, you can not add more storage, you have to deal with apple primarily (closest store here is 1hr away), no adobe flash, etc.
Everyone (minus 2) I've sold a phone to since that phone launched goes for android, I allow them to make their educated decision based upon the facts, the two I sold were to apple fanboys who had to have Siri.
codyh666 said:
thank you, you are the first person to actually help me and i like android its just im tired of getting a new phone and having a better one come out a week later
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's just how technology is. wether you get a car, computer, phone, etc.. new stuff is always around the corner.
with android as you mentioned, since it is open and different manufacturers are constantly releasing new phones it can be a bit overwhelming. whereas apple has their stuff on lockdown and since it's just them releasing things you don't see new stuff as often.
that doesn't mean however that whatever you have currently is crap just because something newer came out. for instance, even the Thunderbolt... its not the latest & greatest but it still holds up fine. and yes, the battery issue is with all 4G-LTE phones.
to sum thimgs up though;
Android = much more support(3rd party, development, etc), more customizable interface
iOS = incredibly simplistic, no 4G support period
I have an ipod touch that I connect in my car & use just for music. I hate itunes with a passion though and wish I could just copy/paste tracks instead of "sync". The only reason I use it instead of another mp3 device is because when it's connected to the stereo it gives better sound output then anything else... and when you spend $2,500 on your sound system, that matters big time. I could never see myself owning an iphone though.
voxigenboy said:
I have an ipod touch that I connect in my car & use just for music. I hate itunes with a passion though and wish I could just copy/paste tracks instead of "sync". The only reason I use it instead of another mp3 device is because when it's connected to the stereo it gives better sound output then anything else... and when you spend $2,500 on your sound system, that matters big time. I could never see myself owning an iphone though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Used to be able to do that until Apple locked out any chance of third party firmware development past the ipod video and 2g nano, so no more rockbox/ipod linux.
ok thats true i guess ill stay with my htc thunderbolt and just go out an buy a extended battery
just a side not,if you set the iphone to use the data aame as you set the thunderbolt guess what, your battery life sux just as bad,i get 6hours of heavy use,daughters iphone(she is a junkie like me)gets 6hours heavy use(oh boy)medium use goes to 10/12 hours so you see its not tgat different plus my screen is bigger
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda premium
and furthermore, I'll have you know that I have the 2750mAh battery for the TB and with "heavy use" I go through that in about 4 - 5 hours.
before you say anything though, on my ipod touch, I can also blow through that battery in 4 - 5 hours aswell.
I guess it just depends on how 'intense' your usage is.