Related
OK so i know this is the wrong forum, BUT I came across this and wanted to "bump" it so to speak. This was posted by kyphur in 08 and in a mods sig now. Please read and adhere to the spirit of the post. It is RIGHT ON!!!
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
Maybe you can recommend an alternative site for people who just want the newest tweaks and software.
the idea is not that only developers should be looking at this site, but that this is a place where developers communicate with each other and the beneficiaries of their work. This is not the place for someone to post threads about general questions about how to use or mod their device. This is a place that will develop the capabilities of the android platform if it is allowed. Developers WILL abandon this forum if it becomes a bulletin board or a technical support site.....and if you need a question answered, there are other forums on THIS site to address those.
Agreed 100%. While developing for the Windows mobile, I also got the same thing. I would post a thread and WARN people of a certain things and tell them how to fix it. Then I'd get 30 pages of "geeze, you broke something. how do you fix it?" That gets annoying real fast. I would love it if this forum forced people to take a test before they could post in the development sections... Before that, they should only be able to post in the regular sections.
One thing that really bugs me is the fact that the newbs don't want to search but don't realize that they take OUR time to search FOR them. No one knows everything. Every developer on this site searches and learns. I know that if you put together all the time that I've spent on this site JUST researching and searching, it'd be MONTHS and MONTHS of non-stop, no sleep searching and researching. So why can't the average person search for 2 minutes? Is their time worth more than my time?
/rant - while talking on the phone so it might not make sense...
Pinesal said:
Maybe you can recommend an alternative site for people who just want the newest tweaks and software.
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There are thousands, but essentially all they do is copy stuff off here.
Like the post said, if you just want to root your phone so it can do 'cool stuff' and not give a **** about how the damn thing works then maybe you shouldn't be modding your phone (that wasn't aimed at you btw, just 'people' in general the market place is made up of 99% 'these people' who don't/can't read and it's pretty irritating.)
Agree with the post 100%, fantastic
we sadly are living in the (ME) world
there is such a huge gape beetween the 10-19 generation and 20-29
10-19 generation is living in such an easy world, they never had to blow into their nintendo cassettes , know how heavy a quantum bigfoot is or what RTFM mean's
You said it, this is in the wrong forum.
You're not an admin and although you can spend your time here (and pretty much all of your posts) reporting out-of-place threads, you're still not an admin.
People always wonder into communities and it always takes a while to learn the way things work. Mickey is doing a good job on closing and moving threads that are unrelated to development.
With that said...
Reported.
Agreed. It's really, really, really, really getting to me. I wish OP's had semi-moderator power. They could at least delete all necessary posts and ban that user - if required- for a certain amount of time from their thread only.
jubeh said:
You said it, this is in the wrong forum.
You're not an admin and although you can spend your time here (and pretty much all of your posts) reporting out-of-place threads, you're still not an admin.
People always wonder into communities and it always takes a while to learn the way things work. Mickey is doing a good job on closing and moving threads that are unrelated to development.
With that said...
Reported.
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ughh, no i'm not an admin, and no almost all my posts, or the majority, or a half are reported threads, but i do try to help out the mods when i can. they are not on all forums at all times and can use the help, and they have said as much.
Oh thank you thank you! People here should want to understand why thing the work as they work. Not just want their phones to look cool.
As it you wouldnt know it, i have been with xda for years well since the titan came out. before that i was modding an ipaq and of course the old palms. everyonce in awhile i lose interest and move on only to come back when i have something new(major a.d.d). i do write java as well as c and even c++(so on) i typically find this place useful to try stuff out and even set up my own custom rom just for me. i dont post because i can google. while i have many of my own questions i would like answered i simply dont ask most of the time(such as using micro kernels and modding app2sd to make the os have two options sd in or out. however the problem is not the generations or age difference or anything like that. its social systems outside of xda. posting a reply used to mean an answer or something useful. now its normal to simply post "great job". thats nice and all but maybe instead of complaining about it we should come up with a new system that improves xda. like a sorting system or sub thread system and set up catagorys for our replys. like thumbs up would be for the "good job". i know its hard to keep everyone happy but this is a forum first, a forum has design problems when you get the number of people xda has. use advanced search it helps a lot. a sorting system with requirements for certain catagorys would help devs. its not easy modding and getting it right and you cant do it alone. xda is the help even if its not your phone sometimes others have solutions too. such as winmo users putting android on their phones(yes i did it too my old titan for fun). things i learned and other devs learn can help us and vice versa. i have yet to find bad technology only poorly thought out ideas that could have been. which is why we mod.
p.s. wtf is up with palm and blackberry ads all the time.
Most of those kids just want the answer or fix in the next 3min. with perfect steps or a patch that supposedly will fix and hack their device,after that they´ll never show up.
All they want is to show off without bothering to read.
I totaly understand. I do feel sometimes that certain devs do get a bit annoyed with people who just want to fix the phone and not understand. I'm not linux or coding wiz. But whe I got here in may I was one of the people who just wanted me phone to be better than urs. I still have that to some extent but I have developed more of a "how and what is causeing this issue" attitude. I try to contribute as best as I can. Helping out over at q&a as best as I can. I enjoy xda and without my days would be more boring than what the are now. I dunno I guess I'm just rambling. Bottom line is I have tried to correct my attitude toward modding. Hell I even post my email so users can drop a line if they need help.
i am 20 and i fondly remember blowing into my nes super nes and genesis games.
i am pretty new to XDA. when i first found this site all i wanted was a quick fix. now i am getting more intrested in the actual dev aspect. i want to be able to create my own rom eventualy. yes i do find myself asking stupid questions and getting some foul responses but in my opinion no question is a stupid one. only the one not asked. yes alot of people just want a fix but there are new users who want to learn. like me. so i appreciate the help i have recieved from most members. and i alwasy appoligise for my stupidity. so dont get down on all noobs because alot of us want to learn and the only way to is to ask.
saprano614 said:
i am pretty new to XDA. when i first found this site all i wanted was a quick fix. now i am getting more intrested in the actual dev aspect. i want to be able to create my own rom eventualy. yes i do find myself asking stupid questions and getting some foul responses but in my opinion no question is a stupid one. only the one not asked. yes alot of people just want a fix but there are new users who want to learn. like me. so i appreciate the help i have recieved from most members. and i alwasy appoligise for my stupidity. so dont get down on all noobs because alot of us want to learn and the only way to is to ask.
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nobody is getting down on noobs. ONLY the site users who FAIL to post questions and general comments in the correct forum
jaaronmoody said:
nobody is getting down on noobs. ONLY the site users who FAIL to post questions and general comments in the correct forum
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Just want to make a statement befor someone did.
I thank you for this post. I came to this forum a long time ago I have learned quite a bit and appreciate everything that is done here. There are very skillful people that are on here and I wish I had the amount of skill then thesemodders, hackers, developers etc... have I keep my mouth shut unless i feel there is some thing that i know how to answer, i have never complained about a single rom i simply research what can be done to change for fix it, all answers rely in a search somewhere either here or google. I just wish other people would do the same then we would be able to prevent a 300+ page threads where only about 25 pages are worth anything.
look at the amount of posts from someone who knows they are barley able to contrubute(but do what he can) and been here this long. compared to people who have been here dont have much to contribute but love to post everything that comes to thier minds.
Join Date
22nd October 2006
Total Posts
89
samygent said:
we sadly are living in the (ME) world
there is such a huge gape beetween the 10-19 generation and 20-29
10-19 generation is living in such an easy world, they never had to blow into their nintendo cassettes , know how heavy a quantum bigfoot is or what RTFM mean's
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Click to collapse
HEY!
im 18 and clearly remember blowing into those damn games to make them work. but when they worked, so much fun i still think theyre better than the crappy xbox and ps3 games of today... but thats just me. lol
pleeease yall! let's keep THIS thread on topic! LOL!!
This is a new phone with new users coming in here every day. I've seen he same one or two people here not answer a single question, they just say wrong forum or hey let me google that for you.
Way to foster a growing community.
I think everyone that replies should encourage people to search for themselves and put things in the proper forums.
I know it falls on deaf ears as most people want to be spoon fed - it is just to much work to read 30 pages of a thread to understand how something works - they just want the short answer. Then they complain when they miss a step and break something.
I agree. It seems like they just started recently. Ive had my phone since launch and it hasnt been like this. It does get annoying to see dumb questions but most on here its our first android phone ( backflip and aria didnt really cut it).
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I have just decided if you are a thread Nazi I will block you. I have 2 on my ignore list right now.
gunnyman said:
I have just decided if you are a thread Nazi I will block you. I have 2 on my ignore list right now.
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If you don't know how to block people, let me know and and I'll google it for you ; )
J/k, don't block me.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
ashoooo said:
If you don't know how to block people, let me know and and I'll google it for you ; )
J/k, don't block me.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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LOL 10chars
gunnyman said:
This is a new phone with new users coming in here every day. I've seen he same one or two people here not answer a single question, they just say wrong forum or hey let me google that for you.
Way to foster a growing community.
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I do notice the large amount of people that seem to ask questions that have already been covered or start cloned threads that do not need repeated. You could view it as overly eager people who want to jump into the community before getting to know it or as people to lazy to do a search and/or read some existing threads.
Either way, I always felt ignoring the post seems to be a better option than making a negative comment. I think you are correct in saying this does not "foster a growing community."
Do keep in mind that it is sometimes hard to search for the correct answer or how to word a question when you are new to a subject. Back in my first few weeks of XDA on my old tilt, I felt a bit bombarded by new terminology and confusing tutorials. More experienced members should be able to determine if an OP is partialy ignorant or just plain lazy. I say when in doubt, ignore it.
Good post, Shovelhead. I agree with your comments.
I think another factor is that just now many people are just being introduced to smart phones. And that in turn probably is causing many new forum users to come on board. I mean new to forums, period. So they may not know the methods, and protocols expected.
It's interesting that I see in many forums that some people will expend more effort griping or castigating someone than it would take to just answer the question, or ignore the post/thread if it is one that doesn't interest them.
I actually am not familiar with the ignore option. I presumed that would just ignore if they sent you PM messages.
Can someone Google that for me?
ewingr said:
Good post, Shovelhead. I agree with your comments.
I actually am not familiar with the ignore option. I presumed that would just ignore if they sent you PM messages.
Can someone Google that for me?
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In efforts to prevent confusion, I was referring to a personal ability to ignore. I have not used any ignore features through the forum. I am currently ignorant to these features.
Shovelhead84 said:
In efforts to prevent confusion, I was referring to a personal ability to ignore. I have not used any ignore features through the forum. I am currently ignorant to these features.
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I put them on ignore so I don't say something banworthy to them. It's the best form of self moderation for me.
I understand your point, but having the developement section tampered with unnecessary threads hampers its readability. And to many it is fundamental to keep up with multiple threads in there.
I'm not the kind of person that goes around bashing new users, but I did notice an increase in such threads lately, and although "thread nazis" can be just as annoying, don't forget there's no personal gain for them in it: they're just trying to keep the forum as clean and readable as possible.
I mean, there is a reason to have a Q&A section: using it would actually make it resourceful for newcomers while keeping developement clean.
I actually would say there haven't been many "thread nazis" in the Captivate forums. I read development for the most part and there are MANY questions (hell half of them start with [Q] that have NOTHING to do with development, people just want a question answered for them) that just belong in Q&A.
Most of the people (most, not all) tell people that they are in the wrong section but usually still provide the answer in hopes of letting the thread die. asking how a command works in adb does not count as captivate-specific android development.
it's important to remind people that the development section should be left for DEVELOPING android on the phone or TESTING new developments on the phone (or thinktanks and the occasional request for apps that would have to be dev'd to get functional)
Has anybody tried to use the search since the redesign? All my searches come up with a hundred pages of nothing remotely related to what I searched for, and that's using all combinations of the advanced search. At least for me it's useless now.
This stuff here makes mad:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=752670
Sent from my captivate
In my begginings in this forum I'm ashamed to admit that I acted like one too. But now what I do is when I see an out of place thread I reply very succinctly almost bordering on a terse response and then I suggest the Q&A section.
I then proceed to answer as many questions as I can for 5 min in an effort to make the Q&A section the best it can be and not clutter the rest of the sections.
boborone said:
Has anybody tried to use the search since the redesign? All my searches come up with a hundred pages of nothing remotely related to what I searched for, and that's using all combinations of the advanced search. At least for me it's useless now.
This stuff here makes mad:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=752670
Sent from my captivate
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I find the search function works very well.
As for not liking references to google - I don't see the problem - OK, maybe you were looking for more specific information, but like all things, likes of forums is suggestive. So why not use google, search for Android forums, then pick the ones you like.
So many questions are answered by using google but no one tries that, so unless someone says "I have tried google, and only find X - but I want Y" then a response that says "try Google" is not out of line.
My $0.02 has always been this ...
We were all noobs once. When I was a noob I had enough sense to spend time and effort rooting around XDA to learn about my new (at the time) device before I started to ask questions.
Whether it's here, or on any other message board in cyberspace, that is the standard level of expectation that the senior members of the forum have. Experienced members want to help people and often spend a lot of time adding their experience to the forum, but they also want the new members to try to help themselves first. When they see someone ask a question that's answered in a 'sticky' at the top of the page or one or two posts below on the first page, it can be amazingly frustrating, and as others have said, it unnecessarily clutters up the forum.
So yes, sometimes people are harsh. Personally, if it at least looks like someone has tried to find and answer but can't figure something out, I'm always happy to help. Those who make their very first XDA post a question that has been asked and answered many times will get a 'search is a beautiful thing' response from me with a link to the post where the answer is. It's a subtle jab, yes, but at the same time the poster gets an answer. It's not meant to be a 'Thread Nazi'.
Hopefully that nudges them down the path of looking first and not expecting to be spoon fed everything, and to the realization that the forum doesn't exist simply to be a place to pop in and ask a question and go. Every time I pick up a new device and move to a new forum I see a ton of this ... one hit wonders that you never see again.
I I don't have a problem with that at all.
But what value does "hey you should have posted that somewhere else dumbass" provide. especially in "Dev"
I mean General is the catch all
Q&A is kind of basic
Themes and Apps are self explanatory.
I see dev section as the "hey I wanna break stuff" department. If the answer to a question could break stuff I say it's a dev question.
I agree with most remarks on here. I know i have been too harsh with post on here. But mainly after i read the same post in different threads. I agree that there are alot of newer members now that are lost in the threads lol. So im glad this thread was made and cast new light for me. Guess i need to be nice and more helpfull.
smokestack76 said:
I agree with most remarks on here. I know i have been too harsh with post on here. But mainly after i read the same post in different threads. I agree that there are alot of newer members now that are lost in the threads lol. So im glad this thread was made and cast new light for me. Guess i need to be nice and more helpfull.
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Well well Smoke seems like once again we are on the same device lol. Ill be working in this forum more closely cleaning things up and trying to help point new users in the right direction.
zelendel said:
Well well Smoke seems like once again we are on the same device lol. Ill be working in this forum more closely cleaning things up and trying to help point new users in the right direction.
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Yes this rocks!!! I guess my talks with a few people worked Glad to see ya here
Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Hello everyone, I'm writing this because lately there has been a lot of turmoil in this section. People are leaving, upset with xda, posting off topic like crazy and showing hostility like I've never seen here before. I really wanna help make this section better as this is my main device and hate seeing it like this. I try and do what I can, delete off topic/flaming posts, move threads to the proper sections and so on but would love some input from the users here to make this section better for everyone. Granted I'm not the only mod here but this will benefit all of us so here's what I'm asking. If you see something you think we can improve on post it here. If a user is rude, flaming and going off topic pm me or another mod here or report it. I will do my best to address anything posted here. Granted I can't do anything about xda rules as they are in place for a reason but I can always bring up suggestions to the other mods and the admins. I really wanna work with everyone here so please suggest away. Off topic posts, flaming, rude comments will not be tolerated in this thread.
Thanks,
Ryan
Ryanmo5 said:
Hello everyone, I'm writing this because lately there has been a lot of turmoil in this section. People are leaving, upset with xda, posting off topic like crazy and showing hostility like I've never seen here before. I really wanna help make this section better as this is my main device and hate seeing it like this. I try and do what I can, delete off topic/flaming posts, move threads to the proper sections and so on but would love some input from the users here to make this section better for everyone. Granted I'm not the only mod here but this will benefit all of us so here's what I'm asking. If you see something you think we can improve on post it here. If a user is rude, flaming and going off topic pm me or another mod here or report it. I will do my best to address anything posted here. Granted I can't do anything about xda rules as they are in place for a reason but I can always bring up suggestions to the other mods and the admins. I really wanna work with everyone here so please suggest away. Off topic posts, flaming, rude comments will not be tolerated in this thread.
Thanks,
Ryan
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I commend you. I could imagine your task at hand is like trying to clean up the streets of St Louis by yourself. It has become anarchy here, just people running their mouth with no consequence. You deleted one of my posts because it became off topic, I was actually happy, because it was deserved.
My only suggestion is consequence. I know it's hard to really "punish" someone over the internet, but any kind of action should be taken to breaking the rules.
Thanks for taking your time just to read post over post, just to see if people are following rules.
Thanks for taking the time to respond! Believe me there will be consequences if people break forum rules and I'm making a personal commitment to be extremely active here and do everything I can to make it better for everyone.
Ryanmo5 said:
Thanks for taking the time to respond! Believe me there will be consequences if people break forum rules and I'm making a personal commitment to be extremely active here and do everything I can to make it better for everyone.
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You're welcome. See you around
I think one of the problems that has gotten worse lately is the way new members are treated. Please see here from today:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1166265
I understand about searching, etc, and repetitive threads, but there is a right way and a wrong way to handle things and too many members here have started acting unacceptably to new members imo. It sets a tone and then the new members act the same way and the problem snowballs on itself and we end up with a forum of everyone being rude to one another.
anyway just my opinion and thanks for your efforts in cleaning things up
One of the biggest problems I have seen around Tbolt forums, is the fact that developers bust their asses for us and MANY people act as if it's a Dev's privilege for us to be using their Roms and what ever else. People should be thankful we get all these nice Roms and themes and what ever else for FREE. The other big problem I see is people not searching I've asked quite a few questions but MANY more have been answered just by using the search feature.
I know we have stickys but I think a big Noob sticky would help cut out some of the mess/easily answered questions.
Old MuckenMire said:
I think one of the problems that has gotten worse lately is the way new members are treated. Please see here from today:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1166265
I understand about searching, etc, and repetitive threads, but there is a right way and a wrong way to handle things and too many members here have started acting unacceptably to new members imo. It sets a tone and then the new members act the same way and the problem snowballs on itself and we end up with a forum of everyone being rude to one another.
anyway just my opinion and thanks for your efforts in cleaning things up
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VERY unacceptable, thanks for pointing out thread it has been cleaned and closed. We were all newbies at one point and those replies are the exact thing I'm trying to rid xda of. Thanks for the help!
ScoobarSTI said:
One of the biggest problems I have seen around Tbolt forums, is the fact that developers bust their asses for us and MANY people act as if it's a Dev's privilege for us to be using their Roms and what ever else. People should be thankful we get all these nice Roms and themes and what ever else for FREE. The other big problem I see is people not searching I've asked quite a few questions but MANY more have been answered just by using the search feature.
I know we have stickys but I think a big Noob sticky would help cut out some of the mess/easily answered questions.
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Sadly that's the way it has always been, there are always those users who are on here to simply tear people down and complain. Maybe its boredom but its something that has always bothered me as well. Not sure there's much anyone can do about it however, unless they are flaming and posting rude comments that's when the mods can do their thing. If enough complaints are reported about certain users then action is also justified so don't be afraid to let us know.
I'm gonna improve the sticky I put up in the dev section to include more info for noobs and see if that helps.
Ryanmo5 said:
VERY unacceptable, thanks for pointing out thread it has been cleaned and closed. We were all newbies at one point and those replies are the exact thing I'm trying to rid xda of. Thanks for the help!
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No problem man, and I'm not trying to rat people out either. I just wanted to show an example of what has been going on. A lot of members here(even me included at times I'm sure) have been acting like this is our forum instead of us all acting like guests here and treating others as guests as well.
It's so hard to clean things up and police them, what one person feels should be asked in a thread for a specific ROM another person feels should be in the "general" or Q&A section.
If I'm having a "general" (ie battery, GPS, etc.) issue after I flash a ROM I'm going to look to that ROM's thread for answers - I find that if I post something in the 'general' forum about a specific ROM I get all kinds of answers from folks running different ROMs or that are not rooted and, while I appreciate the help, I don't think that somebody is as able to help unless they are on that particular s/ware. Isn't battery life and/or GPS a development issue if a lot of people are having that problem? Spin off to a new thread, reduce clutter, and post a link to the thread in the OP. (then you can at least chastise somebody if the info is in the first post which should ALWAYS be read in its entirety).
I think it would be nice if a developer would put in the OP a couple links to specific threads that have been started that are talking about specific issues w/a specific ROM. Right now the CM7 development thread has spawned a couple different troubleshooting threads, but there is no link in the OP to those.
On one of my previous ROMs the OP had all kinds of links to help threads and FAQ, etc.
I also think that the old "if you can't say something nice...." saying should be rule #1 - it would save a LOT of issues when somebody chimes in and says "how do I.....?" and somebody else responds with "why don't you try reading/searching, etc." - why can't they just take the same amount of energy they used typing that snide comment and instead point in a helpful direction?
I understand the frustration, I too get tired of the same Q's being asked over and over again but I've also failed at the "search" on the site and had to have people guide me, especially when it's something I'm new to, like Netflix, etc.
Now I'm just rambling......
ScoobarSTI said:
I know we have stickys but I think a big Noob sticky would help cut out some of the mess/easily answered questions.
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I really doubt it will.
I can see what everyone is saying. I've been involved with Android phones since day one and have been active on several boards for many years now.
I was with T-Mobile for over 15 years and am a Pillar on their boards, so I've spent alot of time there.
I've used XDA for some time now with the G1, G2, Cliq, MyTouch, etc.
When I got the Thunderbolt, I came to this forum and I noticed a very different "air" about this forum as others had pointed out. I found it kinda odd since the phone was so new.
One thing that I did notice was that "moderation" (and I know everyone is busy around here) is not as, for lack of a better word..."swift" around here. On most other boards I am on (and also ran), rules violations were not tolerated and handled very quickly with "Time outs" being given out to minor offenders and outright bans given to major offenders.
That being said, as other have said, unless there is a consequence for an action, the behavior will continue.
Not sure what can be done to help monitor this board better, since I do not know how all of it is handled internally, but I think if there was more of a moderator presence (as in jumping into a thread and posting about staying on topic or watching language, etc). Maybe the "bad boys" will just get tired of not being able to "terroize" anyone anymore and just leave.
Just my two cents.
2 issue's that see on this board (and others) -
1. Anyone that ask a question already posted is immediately called a N00b and slammed on.
2. Just cause someone has low post count they are called N00b (yep happens to me on this one)
It seems that there is no patience by many user's on answering questions (if you don't have kids wait till you do, you will be answering them many times over) why get so flustered cause people ask questions, whether or not they have been answered. Not everyone is a N00b because of low post count (I know I'm not and can hold my own anytime) I also don't act like I know everything either. Some people can't let things go either.. if you don't like it why respond? just ignore it. A little common courtesy goes a long way folks. Also folks asking for things to be fixed ASAP on newly released Roms and refuse to use them until they are or they ***** and complain over and over about the issue. Just a question, do you act like this at home or deal with things like this at home with programs you use? All software has issue's if you think they don't or your the perfect programmer, you don't belong doing this. Even major software and telecom companies have bugs that happen that are not always caught on release. Its normal and if you can do better and want everything perfect, then start programming!
I'm actually planning on creating an introductory FAQ/howto for new users. I've written documentation for new users to Linux in the past and many of the questions parallel. I'm more than happy to help in any way I can
sent from my rooted Thunderbolt with das BAMF 3.0 rc4
admiralspark said:
I'm actually planning on creating an introductory FAQ/howto for new users. I've written documentation for new users to Linux in the past and many of the questions parallel. I'm more than happy to help in any way I can
sent from my rooted Thunderbolt with das BAMF 3.0 rc4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Feel free to add to it!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1168433
i commend you for this ryan but it's gonna take more than just you to make xda a better place to be. the issue is instead of people just answering questions, they always say "search" .....what a waste.
the other issue is this site seems to be run by the members and not the devs, nobodies hardly on here anymore it seems. it also takes forever for a mod to show up when you report something. now don't get me wrong i love xda for the freedom i have to an extent, i also do not want a police state like android central is. there has got to be a medium somehow.
i wish we could of talked about this earlier, i hate the fact soo many devs have left the tbolt section.
I'm glad to see an effort is being made, it's going to take work from everyone.
Perhaps we could have a subforum for unrooted users? There's a lot of questions where one assumes the person is rooted (because they don't bother to say) or users that aren't rooted are looking at the wrong topics to figure out what is wrong. There's also a lot of flaming between those that root and haven't rooted on the Thunderbolt forums it seems.
For example:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1169292
As a rooted user, this post would just be a waste of space and pretty offtopic. For an unrooted user, you're going to get the obligatory "ORLY???" type posts from rooted users because to those that rooted, this is old news (either because they already got the update ages ago or they changed their boot animation to something custom).
yareally said:
Perhaps we could have a subforum for unrooted users? There's a lot of questions where one assumes the person is rooted (because they don't bother to say) or users that aren't rooted are looking at the wrong topics to figure out what is wrong. There's also a lot of flaming between those that root and haven't rooted on the Thunderbolt forums it seems.
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Click to collapse
i dunno if id support that move, the forums can be cluttered enough as it is. if your not rooted at all i have no idea why some of you are on here? this place is for custom rom, mods and themes for rooted users mostly. no offense of course but most users come here too root.
fixxxer2008 said:
i dunno if id support that move, the forums can be cluttered enough as it is. if your not rooted at all i have no idea why some of you are on here? this place is for custom rom, mods and themes for rooted users mostly. no offense of course but most users come here too root.
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Click to collapse
I'd say probably 20% that come here don't root. I have no idea why either when they could go to more general forums for android out there that aren't so development/rooting focused. I really don't have much empathy for them when they complain about things being broke/not having fancy new features, but eh, each to their own. They would be better off complaining to the source (verizon) than complaining on here cluttering up the forum, since most of their issues cannot be fixed without doing what the refuse to do.
With that being said, a seperate forum would let them figure stuff out without getting in the way of those that did root.
It seems that too many devs are leaving us due to repeated noobs question and generally flooded threads.
I thought to myself why not use an SGS 4G facebook page as a gate for all QA & General simple questions and leave development issues and logs for the xda forum? This way people will have the community they want and devs will get the order and work environment they want.
Please let me know what you think before it will become another one of those threads and be closed by moderator.
Thanks.
Sent from me
In theory it sounds great. However people will not post there for reason they dont post in proper sections here.
The real issue is this, the community is divided. I left the Optimus V because Virgins coverage sucks for me. I really wish I could have kept the phone and plan and the main reason is the community. At AC I swear the people there help everybody. Even if it is a question already asked. Somebody will pipe up and offer a link.
Im guilty as charged in attacking a n00b for being stupid. However witht eh cost of the Optimus V and the extremely cheap plan many people was buying the phone to tether and have cheap internet. And Most of those people were clueless as to what the hell they were doing. In most cases a friend told them about the phone and plan and how easy it was to root and start tethering. As a end user you dont want those people creating issues for your service. So if your rude and refuse to help they go away.
But right now I can point you to at the minimum of five threads where the community is helping the noobs and letting the devs do their thing. If a dev needs to address something they do. Otherwise the community answers questions. The biggest reason for this is changelogs, instructions, and all that stuff is never deleted just updated. Even if the rom has evolved to a new level. The old info is still posted so people can find out what changed in the various releases. Plus even after somebody asks the same question ten others have asked patience is exhibited and answers are given.
The community here needs to stop worrying with telling people to search and start offering help. Most people come here and ask because they dont know how. And quite honestly dont feel like reading thread after thread after thread of rules and guidelines.They are looking to get a answer for the problem at hand. Most of them will go away if pointed in the right direction. However when people start piling on flaming them for not searching properly it just creates more spam in the thread and drives them away. Then you have people that talk major **** about how xda is a bunch of arrogant f*cktards.
Plenty of people do help in my observations. Im new and signed up only to help people. Answered a 'noob' question before making this post, amd I was nice about it too.
Fortunately, most 'noob' questions have already been answered somewhere on here. I know this because every question I have ever had has been answered by searching for it, not by posting. Not by derailing dev threads either.
The dev threads are filled with simple questions with simple, searchable answers. I shake my head when I see the same question asked posts apart surrounding the answer in a non-Q&A forum. And then I see that person who is asking get mad, or cry 'search nazi!' because someone says to search for it. Give me a break.
If the answer to a simple and eady to answer question is out there and can be found by a search, and someone asks the question anyways after being told that is what they should do in yhe futurethat is laziness, not ignorance. And getting on their case is not arrogance, some of those asking questions have high enough post counts here, they should of learned how to make their own way by now.
I should also add that I have no programming experience, and have only been using a smartphone for 3 months. Yet I have never had to ask a question about how to install a rom or fix a brick. Because I searched for the answer, and everyone else should too.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
eollie said:
The community here needs to stop worrying with telling people to search and start offering help. Most people come here and ask because they dont know how. And quite honestly dont feel like reading thread after thread after thread of rules and guidelines.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you think the "experts" learned? I only posted 3 threads in my first 3 months here at XDA. Do you know why that is? I searched and didn't find an answer to my questions and I decided to make threads. Turns out people didn't know the answers to those either. Go figure. Everything else that I wondered about I found a thread or guide for. It's really not that hard.
If you're not willing to do some reading to be able to understand how to follow a guide you shouldn't be flashing anything to your phone.
Holocene said:
Fortunately, most 'noob' questions have already been answered somewhere on here. I know this because every question I have ever had has been answered by searching for it, not by posting. Not by derailing dev threads either.
The dev threads are filled with simple questions with simple, searchable answers. I shake my head when I see the same question asked posts apart surrounding the answer in a non-Q&A forum. And then I see that person who is asking get mad, or cry 'search nazi!' because someone says to search for it. Give me a break.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree people should use the search function. Have you ever thought they did search and ended up being directed here. I have seen stuff posted and a day later comeback searched the thread because it had grown five to six pages since I seen the post and dont know where the information is. Only to not be able to find the post in question. Yesterday I searched for something I had seen posted the search results..stated they were updated 10 minutes before I had searched. How is that even possible?
FBis251 said:
How do you think the "experts" learned? I only posted 3 threads in my first 3 months here at XDA. Do you know why that is? I searched and didn't find an answer to my questions and I decided to make threads. Turns out people didn't know the answers to those either. Go figure. Everything else that I wondered about I found a thread or guide for. It's really not that hard.
If you're not willing to do some reading to be able to understand how to follow a guide you shouldn't be flashing anything to your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im not saying every single question should be answered with a simple heres the answer next time search response. But dont expect every person to read through every guide in fifteen threads to figure out where a wallpaper is located.
Not every person that comes here for answers is a dev or wants to be a dev.
@ eollie: I have a great idea... quit talking about it and writing these long unnecessary posts and start helping. Lead by example! Maybe others will follow suit since you seem to think people don't help others on here. I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish with these LONG posts?
eollie said:
I agree people should use the search function. Have you ever thought they did search and ended up being directed here. I have seen stuff posted and a day later comeback searched the thread because it had grown five to six pages since I seen the post and dont know where the information is. Only to not be able to find the post in question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I generally bookmark posts that contain information relevant to my interests that I may not be able to commit to memory at the time. Yes, some get changed but most are because the information is wrong or outdated. Another post nearby most likely holds updated info.
eollie said:
Im not saying every single question should be answered with a simple heres the answer next time search response. But dont expect every person to read through every guide in fifteen threads to figure out where a wallpaper is located.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just typed "where in an android rom is the default wallpaper located?" into Google. The first link is to an XDA post titled "Where is a Rom's default wallpaper stored?". The answer to that question is on the first page of the thread. It even has instructions on how to extract it.
Try it yourself. Searching works.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
Holocene said:
I just typed "where in an android rom is the default wallpaper located?" into Google. The first link is to an XDA post titled "Where is a Rom's default wallpaper stored?". The answer to that question is on the first page of the thread. It even has instructions on how to extract it.
Try it yourself. Searching works.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I spent three hours tearing apart a rom to find a wallpaper used on the lockscreen. Im not a dev nor am I a themer but even doing a search for where lockscreen wallpaper is located kept directing me to widgetlocker and those types of apps. A week ago I would have just posted here in hopes somebody would point me in the proper direction. Instead I just sat in front of my computer for three hours because I didnt want to deal with the responses.
Your smartass response...well its not so smart.
@lumin30 dude seriously if you dont like my posts ignore them. Im sorry the community here is absolutely horrendous in helping people. Prime example is the post I have quoted above. Instead of taking what I was saying and using it logically he took it literally. I wasnt asking where I was using a simple example of what I have seen here. Then he even attempted to insult me with his last comment.
Im not here to make friends or enemies. Im here lookig for ways to better my android experience. When that experience is hampered because some tool wants to be a internet badass it pisses me off. Especially when in the process of berating somebody they prove how ignorant they really are. Most people that post here are human beings once in a while you will get a spam bot but 99% of the time you are dealing with a human. Some are old enough to be your grandparents others your teenage brother/sister.
POST REMOVED for sake of preventing a four paragraph response!
wow.....
i really could say something towards this thread for you guys to feed on, but i'll just shut my mouth and just say one more word.
wow.....
now what's the title of this thread again? sorry, but reading all this here made me forget. and sorry for yet another 4 paragraph response.
sent from within pure darkness
eollie made some ramblings against Raver in the Q&A section too.
eollie - I am sorry! Please do not attack me with four paragraphs for saying that.
MY RESPONSE: OK
lumin30 said:
eollie made some ramblings against Raver in the Q&A section too.
eollie - I am sorry! Please do not attack me with four paragraphs for saying that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you just cant let it go can you? I apologized to him and he has accepted it. See adults work things out and accept mistakes and apologies. I guess a child like you just wants to keep the friction and tension high so you appear to be superior. Regarding my not following my own advise in ignoring people..I find your posts in response to me very amusing. You just can help yourself and not respond. Your like a woman arguing to get the last word in. You just cant help it. I would say Im look forward to your response but honestly its not fun anymore you are too predictable.
lumin will post within the next ten minutes rebuting me.
Your name calling, swearing, and the chauvanistic and defamatory comments you just made speak on your behalf. Noone on this board is picking on anyone as much as you are. Good luck getting any help or making friends with that attitude. Peace out dude.
@mods Im done with this, sorry about this being new and all. I couldn't continue watching his thread derailing and user bashing without saying anything.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
Holocene said:
Noone on this board is picking on anyone as much as you are. Good luck getting any help or making friends with that attitude. Peace out dude.
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Click to collapse
Im glad you feel that way. I have seen it first hand tho. You even did it in your initial post to me. Tried to insult me via your last comment. Good god its like people cant see past their own nose. Im guilty as charged in smashing noobs with a bat. But Ive never claimed to not do it. I just think sometimes it is not necessary.
Holocene said:
@mods Im done with this, sorry about this being new and all. I couldn't continue watching his thread derailing and user bashing without saying anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
High road exit was before you posted to me initially. Getting back now will be a long process or winding mountainous roads. Dont forget to enjoy the view along the way tho. There is some awesome put out points to take pictures.
as much as i'd hate to say this, but i see this thread getting deleted before the weekend.
itzik2sh said:
It seems that too many devs are leaving us due to repeated noobs question and generally flooded threads.
I thought to myself why not use an SGS 4G facebook page as a gate for all QA & General simple questions and leave development issues and logs for the xda forum? This way people will have the community they want and devs will get the order and work environment they want.
Please let me know what you think before it will become another one of those threads and be closed by moderator.
Thanks.
Sent from me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
now to get back on topic. i personally think it might be a good idea, but unfortunately i don't see it working in this community. we're trying with our wiki page, but it seems that people just want to be spoon fed for this device. trust me, i've checked the mytouch 3g slide forums (my fiance's device) and the galaxy tab 10.1 forums (my next device) and have yet to see what goes on here on those forums. seems to me MOST people with this device are nothing but spoiled little teenagers that are spoon fed all the time. it's no wonder the devs are dropping like flies. if i was a dev, i would leave also. sorry for ranting on your thread itz, but felt this was the best place to put in my 2 cents worth.
sent from within pure darkness
droidmyst said:
now to get back on topic. i personally think it might be a good idea, but unfortunately i don't see it working in this community. we're trying with our wiki page, but it seems that people just want to be spoon fed for this device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I mentioned it before but a lot of people ignore wikis because they are typically out of date. In the beginning people will update them regularly and then just stop. However after some time looking around I can say the SGS4G wiki is just the opposite. Tons of info and for the most part easy to navigate. Which brings up another problem with wikis. The ability to navigate it easily and endless loops of redirects. Again the SGS4G doesnt appear to suffer from that.
Maybe instead of the sticky posts with thread links we could get a single thread with wiki links. That way info is updated and people are spending an hour navigating through search results within one thread. In my mind this makes sense just putting it in print is eluding me.
Idk about the Facebook page. Seems a little too personal lol, and not everyone uses it.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
vgcraze said:
Idk about the Facebook page. Seems a little too personal lol, and not everyone uses it.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact it is personal and exposes peoples real identity is what makes it awesome. Most of the people here wouldnt act the way they did if they were made to use real name and such. Being anonymous has so many advantages and disadvantages.
Can I just point out that I started a thread with a guide to flashing and is intended to help the devs buffer the questions to that thread
Sent from my Kindle Fire using the XDA premium app
itzik2sh said:
It seems that too many devs are leaving us due to repeated noobs question and generally flooded threads.
I thought to myself why not use an SGS 4G facebook page as a gate for all QA & General simple questions and leave development issues and logs for the xda forum?
Sent from me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
back on the actual topic, since it has once again been derailed by the self-appointed thread police....
Devs are not leaving us only for the reasons you stated. Some of that may be part of it, but it's not the sum total...
As for Facebook page... feel free to create one, and I wish you the best of luck.. as one of those 'weird' people who doesn't use Facebook, i won't be coming to visit it...
The only thread similar to this was last posted in February 2008. No doubt I would get no end of hell for resurrecting an old post if it were unlocked, and I'll probably also get no end of hell for starting a post about something that's already been addressed. I'm a "n00b" so I can't win.
Which is what brings me here. The treatment of and policy toward those of us who are not new accounts but new to POSTING is ridiculous. I understand there's probably no easy way to separate out people that have been searching and lurking for over a year vs. someone that just started an account, but it should be done.
I haven't had the need to post in the year or more that I have been coming here because I am good at using a search engine. Most of my questions are in fact already answered. Today, I found an obnoxious post where someone was having a problem and instead of posting the solution, simply posted that "they fixed it." without sharing with the class. Nice. So I was wanting to just ask if he could share his information. That's it.
DENIED. I've been on here a long time, I've been supporting mobile devices since EDGE was the fastest connection you could get and I actually do know my asshole from a hole in the ground believe it or not.
You do realize, mods, that you probably get a hell of a lot of awfully bad information posted by "new" users just for the sake of padding post counts in your attempt to block stupid people? Instead of one or two lame posts of legitimate questions that may have already been asked, you probably get 5-10 garbage posts from people like me trying to get up to 10 so they can get to asking their damned question.
And Five minutes in between? Of course I'm pissed. That's another 45 minutes of my life wasted - at least. That assumes I just copy and paste all this into 8 other posts. But because I'm cursed with this stupid drive to fix things I will probably actually spend the extra time to seek out questions I can answer. Tack on another 30 minutes for that. Thanks guys. Your policy is condescending and pointless.
Let the shi*talking and flaming begin now. Die-hard defenders and fanboys first of course. Tell me why I'm wrong. Please. I need a good laugh. (yes, I am a cynical bastard, thanks)
Allow me to be the first to grab my pitchfork!
You have some perfectly rational points and I'd be surprised if anyone actually gave you the hell you anticipate. Its like you said though, no easy solution to seperate the good eggs from the bad ones. So the 10 post count barrier keeps the development sections clean... But at what cost?
I dont actually intend on using my pitchfork. Just thought I'd try to make people envision someone holding a pitchfork as they read my post.
Sent from my Droid Incredible using the XDA app.
You can place your complaint on the proper section, meantime you can easily make 10 helpful posts and start enjoying XDA, no matter if you have 1 month or 6 yrs.
thread closed