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Guys,
I've been following the Epson and Novatek threads and it looks like good progress is being made on the fps cap. After playing with my friends Droid Incredible and seeing how silky smooth swiping and games are compared to my Evo, and with lack of 4G in my area, I am considering canceling and returning my Evo in 2 days while I am within the 30 day window. I'm sure other non-devs are in this boat and would really appreciate knowing what confidence level the devs have that they can break the 30fps cap AND keep the camera working once the appropriate drivers/source is out there. In other words, based on the latest information does it appear that the hardware is able, but the software isn't willing (yet)?
FWIW, I have a 003 w/Novatek and it has otherwise been pretty solid. But without 4G, and with this irritation, it is worth it to me to return the device and try Sprint again in 3-6 months if the alternative is to get "stuck" with a device with these limits. As an original G1 owner I know how crappy it can be to have a limitation that caps the capability of an otherwise very capable device (negligible onboard memory was a problem from day 1).
Thanks for helping me and others who may have the same question.
vettejock99 said:
Guys,
I've been following the Epson and Novatek threads and it looks like good progress is being made on the fps cap. After playing with my friends Droid Incredible and seeing how silky smooth swiping and games are compared to my Evo, and with lack of 4G in my area, I am considering canceling and returning my Evo in 2 days while I am within the 30 day window. I'm sure other non-devs are in this boat and would really appreciate knowing what confidence level the devs have that they can break the 30fps cap AND keep the camera working once the appropriate drivers/source is out there. In other words, based on the latest information does it appear that the hardware is able, but the software isn't willing (yet)?
FWIW, I have a 003 w/Novatek and it has otherwise been pretty solid. But without 4G, and with this irritation, it is worth it to me to return the device and try Sprint again in 3-6 months if the alternative is to get "stuck" with a device with these limits. As an original G1 owner I know how crappy it can be to have a limitation that caps the capability of an otherwise very capable device (negligible onboard memory was a problem from day 1).
Thanks for helping me and others who may have the same question.
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One has nothing to do with the other. The camera will be working once HTC releases the source, and it appears they have broken the cap and are probably gonna tweak it little by little.
People stop posting these threads!
Also, yes. It will be fixed and still have camera, but it won't be until we get the real HTC source. There is nothing devs here can do to make them release it faster. It's entirely up to them, but once we get it then we can have a fully working kernel along with fully working AOSP builds.
others may have the same question, but they:
1. read forum rules
2. have common sense
3. use the search button
Admin, move this thread to Q&A please.
Should be in the Q&A
The only reason the camera breaks is because we have to use a custom kernel to remove the FPS cap(and overclock). The custom kernel doesn't have the drivers for the camera because HTC is currently breaking the law and not releasing the source code, once that is released many amazing things will happen with this phone, including but not limited to the cap being removed with the camera and other things working.
HTC's track record on this source code release issue is starting to become fairly worrisome. That said. Yes this should be in the Q&A but at the same time I think you guys need to chill out a bit. He's not just posting another one of those threads, and this one is worded concisely enough that should someone choose to answer it, maaaaybe they could just sticky it over in the Q&A forum and be done with it.
Just saying, reserve the smackdowns for the obvious infractions of laziness.
Oh and as much as we all say use the search, I think it is worth noting that the forums search feature sucks and often still leaves you hooting through fifty pages of the same post just being quoted by someone else but still showing up as it's own result.
I cant help but feel like the fact that with SO many threads going way over the 300 post mark, eventually someone is going to need to write/use something better than off the shelf forum software, or we will forever be stuck tilting at windmills in regards to the "use the search" issue.
alcaron said:
HTC's track record on this source code release issue is starting to become fairly worrisome. That said. Yes this should be in the Q&A but at the same time I think you guys need to chill out a bit. He's not just posting another one of those threads, and this one is worded concisely enough that should someone choose to answer it, maaaaybe they could just sticky it over in the Q&A forum and be done with it.
Just saying, reserve the smackdowns for the obvious infractions of laziness.
Oh and as much as we all say use the search, I think it is worth noting that the forums search feature sucks and often still leaves you hooting through fifty pages of the same post just being quoted by someone else but still showing up as it's own result.
I cant help but feel like the fact that with SO many threads going way over the 300 post mark, eventually someone is going to need to write/use something better than off the shelf forum software, or we will forever be stuck tilting at windmills in regards to the "use the search" issue.
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Thanks for the consideration, Alcaron. I always love how the douches, most of whom have been here for about 3 years LESS than I have, scream "SEARCH" and "MOVE THIS TO Q&A" when, as you noted, the search here has its limitations and moving this to Q&A will GUARANTEE it won't get noticed and another person will follow right behind and ask the same question. Truth is, it is a legit question for devs and usually the crybabies aren't even qualified to answer dev questions anyway.
As you stated, HTC's delay in releasing the source is unacceptable and will probably cost them a RMA thanks to the censors who would rather squelch this discussion. Too bad, especially considering just how compelling the device would be if HTC would support the true wizards with this info.
Mods, move this, leave it, whatever you like, but I expect others want to understand what ffolkes and his peers think and it will be asked again.
The issue is posting this in the dev section, instead of the Q&A. That's what's inexcusable. Yes, the search function is subpar, but dammit at least re-post in the right section.
This keeps getting called "trivial" but the fact of the matter is when you see it 100 different times, the small annoyances add up to 1 big episode of rage! It's against the forum rules for a reason. Abide by them or leave.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
kluster1999 said:
The issue is posting this in the dev section, instead of the Q&A. That's what's inexcusable. Yes, the search function is subpar, but dammit at least re-post in the right section.
This keeps getting called "trivial" but the fact of the matter is when you see it 100 different times, the small annoyances add up to 1 big episode of rage! It's against the forum rules for a reason. Abide by them or leave.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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... stfu please ... so is trolling and filling the forum with your spam dictating what the mods need to do ...
MODS = Forum Police ...
YOU = Forum Douche ...
Solution = Mods Police... You just ignore all posts unless you can help out...
P.S. remember these words next time before you click reply: "THE FORUM DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND YOU..."
wrx4memp said:
... stfu please ... so is trolling and filling the forum with your spam dictating what the mods need to do ...
MODS = Forum Police ...
YOU = Forum Douche ...
Solution = Mods Police... You just ignore all posts unless you can help out...
P.S. remember these words next time before you click reply: "THE FORUM DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND YOU..."
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Click to collapse
then you stop acting like it revolves around you. aren't you technically being "policing" this forum by teling him to stfu? seriously, these topics are coming way too often.
just ask yourself these questions.
does this thread contribute to development for the evo?
no. it's a guy who is telling us "thanks for your work, but i'm returning it cause there's too many problems. though i know you guys'll get it right eventually". look, there's nothing wrong with the post, just please put it in the right section!
wrx4memp said:
... stfu please ... so is trolling and filling the forum with your spam dictating what the mods need to do ...
MODS = Forum Police ...
YOU = Forum Douche ...
Solution = Mods Police... You just ignore all posts unless you can help out...
P.S. remember these words next time before you click reply: "THE FORUM DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND YOU..."
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I just felt everyone should read this twice, my advice is wait it out.
The EVO even without 4G is superior to the Incredible in my opinion and we will have it fully unleashed very soon.
justinisyoung said:
then you stop acting like it revolves around you.
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learn to read... then to think... the to comprehend... then to respond based on the previous...
kluster1999 said:
The issue is posting this in the dev section, instead of the Q&A. That's what's inexcusable. Yes, the search function is subpar, but dammit at least re-post in the right section.
This keeps getting called "trivial" but the fact of the matter is when you see it 100 different times, the small annoyances add up to 1 big episode of rage! It's against the forum rules for a reason. Abide by them or leave.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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ROTFLMAO. "Abide by them or leave." Whatever, dude. Maybe you should take a chill pill - or leave yourself.
Again, at the end of the day if you can't handle these types of questions you are in for a lifetime of pain. This isn't a "how do I root my phone" question. This is a question, that in my opinion at least (and guess what, that matters at least as much as yours) should be here for two reasons:
1. it may actually get looked at by devs (versus in general) and
2. it is a legit dev question
Most of the 30fps threads have, at the moment, coalesced around three topics:
1. Which VPA settings give you the most FPS
2. Do we think the MDDI buffer has some hardware cap that is being fooled by some sort of RGB to MDDI bridge which is now either a) working great or b) a placebo effect, depending upon who you believe
3. How the various patches are effecting various hardware rev/panel combinations
At this point, without the source and the possibility of it not being released for months (see Hero), and based upon the discussions, I think it will be at least 3 months until we see a working 50-60fps solution, camera, and HDMI port solution - but I was giving devs a chance to agree or even disagree amongst themselves and to explain their position.
This is the last post I'll waste any time addressing the douches, if someone wants to contribute to the answer feel free to do so, and if you want to complain about the post then no one but the mods can stop you, but i won't perpetuate it.
You should return the device and get something else.
Wow. That all took an unexpected turn.
It's true that dev was the wrong spot to post, but oh well, get over it, they'll never learn..
Id keep it. Well I am, unless news of the epic comes verrrry quick.
Even then. Hard decision.
If you're willing to wait for a truly rewarding phone experience then hold out.
Sent from my Evo 4G
mrono said:
Should be in the Q&A
The only reason the camera breaks is because we have to use a custom kernel to remove the FPS cap(and overclock). The custom kernel doesn't have the drivers for the camera because HTC is currently breaking the law and not releasing the source code, once that is released many amazing things will happen with this phone, including but not limited to the cap being removed with the camera and other things working.
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On the contrary, the custom kernel does have the drivers for the camera--both cameras actually. I spent about an hour working on the camera last night, and it appears the problem isn't really with the drivers, but we probably have the wrong GPIO tables for it, since we're using the same ones the Incredible uses. I'm not sure how we can get the right tables without the official source, but me and maejrep have been working on it.
We'll update the custom kernel thread if it gets fixed.
Cicatrize said:
On the contrary, the custom kernel does have the drivers for the camera--both cameras actually. I spent about an hour working on the camera last night, and it appears the problem isn't really with the drivers, but we probably have the wrong GPIO tables for it, since we're using the same ones the Incredible uses. I'm not sure how we can get the right tables without the official source, but me and maejrep have been working on it.
We'll update the custom kernel thread if it gets fixed.
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Awesome Cicatrize, this type of info is exactly what I was looking for.....best of luck to you.
Ugh, the "something about my evo makes me mad so I'm going to get an <other phone>," threads get so old. Do it already, we don't need to hear about it. I personally like my EVO, I like being on Sprint with upgrades every year and good coverage and inexpensive monthly fees ($10 premium data addon be damned,) and I sure as heck know I don't want to lack those things and get tied into a 2-year contract with a $375 termination fee on Verizon or AT&T at the same time that said companies have started to tier data usage.
You've probably read the new Operation Iron Fist going on here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=1159
As of now, I will no longer stand for the way some things are going here. If I see ANY trolling, flaming, or disrespectful behaviour, you will receive an infraction on the spot. No more warnings.
Also, offtopic chatter on the development forums is exceptionally high here. This will stop, since I will also infract upon it.
Just one more thing: if you encounter ANY of above mentioned offences, let me know ASAP, instead of foulmouthing about it on the public forum. If I see that, you WILL get an infraction too.
I am sorry for acting this way, but you guys are forcing me to do this.
Sounds good to me, unless "iron fist" translates in reality to Naziism.
There's a difference in insulting people, and trying to contribute and being attacked. I tried to contribute by pointing out that there were several bugs that were fairly severe. If a user doesn't point them out, what's the point of ever releasing anything beyond 1.0 and then closing the thread?
However, there's a small group of users in the community who have resorted to fanaticism, and when someone goes that direction it shouldn't be tolerated. When I get criticized for bringing up a bug, and told I'm a "habitual complainer" how is that supposed to encourage anyone to want to participate in the DEVELOPMENT of anything for any phone? For some reason the Infuse 4G participants who I'm referring to seem really on edge, and speak out (often personally) about anyone who says anything aside from praise.
We're not here to be reassured that the world is 100% good, and that everything everyone says is amazing, we're here to participate in an active development community, be it as a developer, or as a contributing end user. The moment you criticize your user base is the moment you go from being an open community of developers and end users to a system of dictatorship, and closed platformism (yeah, it's a word now because I said so), lol.
To the people who squash anyone who's new, or doesn't know something, or volunteers that they're having a problem and need help, STOP. There's no need to make someone feel bad for asking a question a second time in a 3000+ post thread and then criticizing them for not reading the answer in post 2106 on page 291. There's no need to tell someone they are full of crap when they say they're having internet speed issues, and that since it works for you to your satisfaction that they're obviously less intelligent. There's no reason to tell someone they're wrong just because you disagree with them.
To make this a "community" everyone has to be understanding that everyone has their opinions, and that we're all here to make the phone in whatever thread a better phone.
Without developers, this site wouldn't exist. Without end users wanting mods, this site wouldn't exist. If you continue to alienate anyone who's new and turn this into a fanboy forum, it's just going to send them back to Apple iOS forums and devices. If that's how you want to help turn the mobile community, fine, but personally, I don't.
Bella
True to some extent. But the main problem is this:
NeoS2007 said:
Just one more thing: if you encounter ANY of above mentioned offences, let me know ASAP, instead of foulmouthing about it on the public forum. If I see that, you WILL get an infraction too.
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Most people here think they can say ANYTHING to ANYONE. That's not what this forum is about. It's aimed at development and not discussion. If you feel you should debate in any way, move to another forum.
And you can call my method anything you like, I used to warn everyone before acting, but that's over. You of all people should know that.
I'm not about to take any sides, but Bella, you're completely out of line. Being part of the community is different than creating your own community. This is a group working together towards a common goal. To reach that goal, we must provide detailed, factual and documented information to the dev(s) so that we can enable them to create the best possible releases. I've seen no images, logcat, etc. that was provided by you. Granted, there are several others in the forum not providing these details, but there are several who have provided very specific and detailed information. It took far too long for you to provide this kind of information and it only turned the conversation south. You are not alone, so know I am not singing you out; there were several others who contributed to a negative environment. The reason for my posting this is because you were the only one to come here and plead your case.
That said, this is a community filled with individuals. We all have different personalities and will act and react differently to different scenarios. Hopefully this can be the beginning of a constructive and collaborative effort by us all to truly bring our Infuse to the next level.
I will not retort nor reply, I am simply sharing my views and experiences in this forum so far. The Captivate started off rough, but never reached this level. It won't be easy resurrecting this one from the ashes, but it can be done.
Right, you say I was unable to provide any factual data, yet I responded each time with factual and accurate data that was requested by GTG. I think some people get frustrated because often issues that come up are issues they just don't know how to solve, and often that leads to accusations that the end user is crazy, unintelligent, or just uncooperative, when the case is the opposite.
Clearly in the end I identified a data connectivity issue first (review thread if you like) that's been significant enough for him now to pull the ROM until he can resolve the issue. Rather than fellow members responding with productive comments, they responded in an attacking manor. My point was valid (as vetted by GTG at this point), and for those who weren't having the issue, why pipe in and say there's no problem? Do you take your car to the mechanic and tell him everything is working fine?
Initially I was called a complainer for bringing it to the attention. Unfortunately as a developer you can't expect that an end user is always going to be able to provide the detail you need. If I had the experience and desire to build a ROM I'd do it myself. It's kinda like building a house then expecting to know where to find a pipe junction inside a wall that only you know where it is. There's only so much expectation you can have of the end users.
Additionally, this is not the Google Developers Forum. This is not a forum of official Android releases, this is a hobbyist community of people who want to tinker with their phone. If a developer wants to be in an environment of developing for Google, maybe they ought to apply for a position at google.com/jobs. The ROMs that come out of XDA are great, but we have to realize there is nothing official about anything that comes from these forums.
I think the comment should be changed from "development, not discussion" to development and on-topic discussion. Because if you discourage discussion, it's like discouraging shopping in a mall. Discussion is what makes a forum like this great.
I'll certainly commit to staying on topic in the future.
Have at it neo. Thanks
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997R using XDA App
Bella, you never provided the data requested. You just compared two modems - this was NOT what gtg asked for. He asked you to compare 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 performance. After looking through the thread, I'm fairly certain never provided this information, you just maintained that you had provided the requested data because of your modem comparison tests.
Perhaps you were under the mistaken impression that 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 was a modem firmware change - if you had opened the update zip to analyze the contents you would see that it was not. There's a reason gtg specifically asked you to compare 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 and not to compare UCKE3 vs UXKG3 modems, and the latter is what you did.
Also, the network connectivity issue was only one of the reasons gtg pulled the ROM. He was trying to be nice, but the poor attitude of many users in the thread was a MAJOR contribution to the ROM pull also. In addition to that, at least two developers have stated either in posts here or on IRC that they are extremely uneasy about releasing any ROM images on these forums because of the poor behavior on these threads. It is also why I currently have a "no support, don't PM me" policy for the kernel I released - it was the only solution to getting experienced users the build that many were asking for without subjecting myself to the painful experience gtg did.
PLEASE have at it! I haven't visited this forum in a few years (iPhone) and now that i'm back with an Infuse this place isn't anything like it use to be.
My 2cents.
Entropy512 said:
Bella, you never provided the data requested. You just compared two modems - this was NOT what gtg asked for. He asked you to compare 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 performance. After looking through the thread, I'm fairly certain never provided this information, you just maintained that you had provided the requested data because of your modem comparison tests.
Perhaps you were under the mistaken impression that 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 was a modem firmware change - if you had opened the update zip to analyze the contents you would see that it was not. There's a reason gtg specifically asked you to compare 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 and not to compare UCKE3 vs UXKG3 modems, and the latter is what you did.
Also, the network connectivity issue was only one of the reasons gtg pulled the ROM. He was trying to be nice, but the poor attitude of many users in the thread was a MAJOR contribution to the ROM pull also. In addition to that, at least two developers have stated either in posts here or on IRC that they are extremely uneasy about releasing any ROM images on these forums because of the poor behavior on these threads. It is also why I currently have a "no support, don't PM me" policy for the kernel I released - it was the only solution to getting experienced users the build that many were asking for without subjecting myself to the painful experience gtg did.
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Understood. I provided what he asked to the best of my ability at the time ... I'd reference my post but I'm not digging through a 3000 message thread, sorry. :-(
Matt-Helm said:
PLEASE have at it! I haven't visited this forum in a few years (iPhone) and now that i'm back with an Infuse this place isn't anything like it use to be.
My 2cents.
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The Inspire and Aria forums were much more friendly, it's not this site, it's just the Infuse forum in general. I had a very positive experience in the Inspire threads
I think it was not the fact that you raised an issue that bothered the developers, it was the manner in which it was raised.
Also, look at it from a developer's perspective - when the thread is filled with posts that clearly indicate that the poster didn't even read the first post of the thread in its entirety (not saying that you did this, but many others did), it gets massively frustrating.
I've never seen so many people completely fail to read/comprehend the first post of a thread as the Infused v2 thread. Even after it was put into the first post as a known issue, we still got reports of HDMI not working every 3-4 pages.
After what could be effectively described only as an all-weekend hack session two weekends ago, everyone's been a bit exhausted/burned out. But everyone keeps demanding MORE MORE MORE!
Entropy512 said:
Also, look at it from a developer's perspective - when the thread is filled with posts that clearly indicate that the poster didn't even read the first post of the thread in its entirety (not saying that you did this, but many others did), it gets massively frustrating.
I've never seen so many people completely fail to read/comprehend the first post of a thread as the Infused v2 thread. Even after it was put into the first post as a known issue, we still got reports of HDMI not working every 3-4 pages.
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I agree 100% ... the only thing I can say is that remember that many people come from iphone, aka the dev team blog, which is much different. On theirs you read from the bottom up. I don't think that's an excuse since XDA uses the globally accepted standard in forums. But yeah, last night there were about 25 people in an hour asking why the links didn't work, lol.
Not really sure if this is on topic or not.... I just looked up "Iron Fisting" and this was the first result http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=iron fisting
Holy cow! The mods/admins mean business!
AdamOutler said:
Not really sure if this is on topic or not.... I just looked up "Iron Fisting" and this was the first result http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=iron fisting
Holy cow! The mods/admins mean business!
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I know my mouth (and legs) will be shut going forward.
Bravo Neo. Bravoooooooooooooo.
Thank you!
Looking forward to seeing a cleaned up forum!
by the way? how do u become an admin?
i spend way to much time on here...even while im at work (because its my job relates highly to this)
AdamOutler said:
Not really sure if this is on topic or not.... I just looked up "Iron Fisting" and this was the first result http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=iron fisting
Holy cow! The mods/admins mean business!
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Click to collapse
(removed comment)
looking forward to clean and healthy forum.
I hope I'm not going to make any enemies by saying this, but I can't say I entirely agree with this being an iron fist. So far all that has been done is the Infused v2 ROM thread was locked. On any other forum I frequent they start with punishing the offenders individually, and only lock the thread as a last resort. I didn't see anybody get personally warned and I didn't see anybody get banned, and it really was only a handful that caused problems. I know there were a LOT of people that were posting the same questions over and over, but that can't be helped most of the time. The ones that were bickering and really ruining the thread are still posting happy as can be. I know it sounds like I'm questioning the mod(s) or being ungrateful, but I don't mean it that way. I just feel like we lost the ability to have an important and fun discussion before all the possible options were explored. Now if gtg asked for the thread to be locked then that is an entirely different matter, but I didn't get that impression from reading the last post.
I really do enjoy these forums and always have, and feel like this board is run very well. By this board, I mean the Infuse board. I just wanted to say that I don't know if I entirely agree with the way the infused thread was handled.
EDIT: I wanted to add that I know the mod(s) do this for free in their spare time, and I know that you can't police it 24/7. I really do appreciate your efforts at running this board, and the ONLY thing that I've seen that I take "issue" with is the handling of the Infused thread. Maybe there are things behind the scenes that I didn't see, and if that is the case then I apologize.
The Infused forum is only locked temporarily, as I asked the dev to contact me when his rom is finished.
Thanks for your support people. Just remember to report anything that's offensive/disrespectful/wrong/etc. and I'll take care of it.
NeoS2007 said:
The Infused forum is only locked temporarily, as I asked the dev to contact me when his rom is finished.
Thanks for your support people. Just remember to report anything that's offensive/disrespectful/wrong/etc. and I'll take care of it.
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I did see where it was locked only temporarily. I just wanted to get that off my chest, so to speak. It wasn't REALLY bugging me, but I did get pretty frustrated with how people were acting. It was pretty ridiculous. Like I said before, I really do appreciate your efforts to keep our forums running smoothly. Thank you for your continued presence and work, and for not taking my post personally, (at least I don't think you did ).
Can someone that has tried both of these ICS projects comment on how they differ and perform?
I'd like to upgrade to ICS, but would rather do so after reading a comparison.
TIA!
No, you have to make that decision on your own. This is a biased question that only you can answer.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using xda premium
b-eock said:
No, you have to make that decision on your own. This is a biased question that only you can answer.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using xda premium
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How is it a biased question?
Surely someone could list the pros and cons of both options?
This is the logical way to choose things.
It is done for everything else (phones, cars, computers, etc), why not ICS builds?
That's a ridiculous position b-eock. raz123 wasn't asking which one was better. He was asking for comments and/or a comparison about how they operate, and what others' experiences have been with the two -- SO THAT he can make his decision on his own. He wasn't asking others to make the decision for him. Last I checked, requesting opinions and feedback of others wasn't inherently "biased". Telling raz123 that he isn't allowed to research and has to just try it out is like telling someone they're not allowed to read product reviews before making purchases.
Please stop trying so hard to be a backseat moderator and actually read the question instead of automatically spewing a canned response.
ultima528 said:
That's a ridiculous position b-eock. raz123 wasn't asking which one was better. He was asking for comments and/or a comparison about how they operate, and what others' experiences have been with the two -- SO THAT he can make his decision on his own. He wasn't asking others to make the decision for him. Last I checked, requesting opinions and feedback of others wasn't inherently "biased". Telling raz123 that he isn't allowed to research and has to just try it out is like telling someone they're not allowed to read product reviews before making purchases.
Please stop trying so hard to be a backseat moderator and actually read the question instead of automatically spewing a canned response.
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Umm read it and read it again! He can search instead of making a new thread and asking for opinions. Any way you wanna re word it, it is still opinion based question.!
Sent from my SGH-I897 using xda premium
b-eock said:
Umm read it and read it again! He can search instead of making a new thread and asking for opinions. Any way you wanna re word it, it is still opinion based question.!
Sent from my SGH-I897 using xda premium
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Any review will always contain a certain amount of subjectivity, regardless of the product. Yet, reviews exist for a reason, correct?
AFAIK, there is no review for either projects that lists the pros and cons of the project.
Unless I missed such a review, in which case, feel free to link me.
Opinions can be either subjective or objective. I fail to see how asking for opinions makes a question biased. It's a biased question if someone asks "in what ways are ROM X worse than ROM Y?" (as the asker would've obviously already made a judgement call), but that clearly isn't what happened here.
Why am I bothering to argue this point? Because you're shutting out a perfectly valid request for discussion. Sure, we can "search" and find another instance where you similarly shut the thread out. We can also look in the respective developer threads and see people complaining about their pet bug, but that doesn't make it a comparison between the two ROMs, and that doesn't make it indicative of the users' overall experiences with the ROMs as a whole.
And actually, no, this isn't an "opinion based" question (not that there's anything inherently wrong with opinions). Experiences -- unless fabricated or misinterpreted -- are fact; they happened, and the user didn't just "feel" like they happened.
SO. I think the thread has been sufficiently derailed already. Let's try to get it back on track with a real discussion.
What ever, it is reported for offensive language and best ROM thread. Let Reinbeau make the decision!
Sent from my SGH-I897 using xda premium
I have tried both the CM9 alpha and ICSGS RC2. Personally I liked the CM's version better and have experienced better performance with theirs ...
tim. said:
I have tried both the CM9 alpha and ICSGS RC2. Personally I liked the CM's version better and have experienced better performance with theirs ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the input.
Can you provide details as to the pros and cons of each?
b-eock said:
What ever, it is reported for offensive language and best ROM thread. Let Reinbeau make the decision!
Sent from my SGH-I897 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whatever man, let her close all the other questioning the difference between two roms threads then /s
To me, ICSSGS seemed a little less polished when I tried the Beta 2 compared to Build 13 on upwards for the teamhacksung port. The only thing that really got me about ICSSGS, was after 5 or so days it seemed to really slow down to where a reboot was needed. I'm not sure how the ICSSGS one does it, but it's annoying to me to have to reflash gapps with each new build of the hacksung port, I never had to do that with CM Nightlies so not sure why I do now, but it's really not that big of a deal. Anyways, thats my $.02, try them both out, they're both great!
I've run most of both ICS ROM's(Except the latest ICSSGS) from the start.
To me they are both very similar in performance, I feel THS is a bit better.
I'm not a HUGE fan of pure ASOP Rom's, I like having a little bit of customization, which I get with THS's ROM. I haven't been completely been following ICSSGS's thread since THS came out with Build 14. I was VERY happy with it, B14 was filling in all of the little quirks that I was not too happy with and didn't feel the need to get into ICSSGS's V3. Some folks have been having SOD issues with THS B14/15, I have not had any myself until I started messing with kernels.
Now I don't want to say that I was at all unhappy with ICSSGS's ROM, it's a really great ROM, but with my device(as we all know, each can be a bit different). I feel THS was doing it a little bit better for me.
Hope this info helps some
Thread closed
This is a 'Best ROM' thread, as such, they are always closed, because they always descend into nastiness.
I've happily owned a G2X for almost 7 months now, and have used a custom rom for essentially the entire time.
Prior to the G2X, i used the HTC HD2 - a Windows 6.5 phone that gained notoriety after having android ported to it through the hard work of developers.
However, one thing that I feel is truly missing from the development community here is what most HD2 devs did; that is, they disclosed the problems with their ROM in the first post of their threads.
So, rather than having to hunt through a 200+ page thread, not knowing what build people are referring to, in order to find out issues with a ROM, it would very much simplify the ROM selection process if devs would disclose known issues such as "non working camera" etc.
Obviously every issue cant be accounted for, but I think the big ones being posted would help clarify a lot of things.
Thoughts?
Edit:
For example, here's a link to one of tytung's HD2 roms (he's one of the more popular developers for the HD2):
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1434860
If you scroll down, you'll see he has a list of "working" and "not working" features.
Nobody has any interest in something like this?
Well the thing is all our rooms are based off stock,cm7, or cm9 in one way or another. So everyone knows of the known issues. If its a weird issue out of the norm its usually stated.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Reasoning above doesn't hold up, because each rom has things that are fixed or not fixed individually.
I'm not sure of the reasoning, and i guess different devs might have different reasons. Depending on their priorities and skill levels.
Of course if someone is cooking and theming and/or just vanilla compiling then maybe there's less reason (and perhaps more reason to deemphasize bugs?).
Anyways, i agree that an informative first post with a real change log and working and non working features is a very handy thing to have.
Sent from my LG-P999
kwes1020 said:
Well the thing is all our rooms are based off stock,cm7, or cm9 in one way or another. So everyone knows of the known issues. If its a weird issue out of the norm its usually stated.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
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Click to collapse
I don't think everyone knows the issues. In fact, if you're new to the community you certainly wont.
Stating the problems is what sparked a ton of competition in the HD2 dev community. The first guy to fix the camera, first guy to fix bluetooth powerdrain etc always got a ton of donations and a better rep. I just don't see that competition here at all.
I don't care about a custom bootloader image or some custom wallpapers. I care about the issues being fixed, and I would love to know which devs are the ones fixing them!
rkarsk said:
I don't think everyone knows the issues. In fact, if you're new to the community you certainly wont.
Stating the problems is what sparked a ton of competition in the HD2 dev community. The first guy to fix the camera, first guy to fix bluetooth powerdrain etc always got a ton of donations and a better rep. I just don't see that competition here at all.
I don't care about a custom bootloader image or some custom wallpapers. I care about the issues being fixed, and I would love to know which devs are the ones fixing them!
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Click to collapse
It really doesn't matter who fixed them, as long as they're fixed. It's not a competition over here. The devs here help each other, especially with ICS. If one of us has a fix for something, it's shared and we all get it. Majority of the people doing the reading that they're supposed to do know the issues that we have with this phone. It just comes down to, are you willing to read to get all of the facts?
Mr. Apocalypse said:
It really doesn't matter who fixed them, as long as they're fixed. It's not a competition over here. The devs here help each other, especially with ICS. If one of us has a fix for something, it's shared and we all get it. Majority of the people doing the reading that they're supposed to do know the issues that we have with this phone. It just comes down to, are you willing to read to get all of the facts?
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Click to collapse
Exactly. We don't do this for competition. We do this as a hobby and we all learn from each other. And even the best developers out there are still learning. If you think developers do this for money you are sadly mistaken, money is in app development not roms.
We all have families, kids, school, jobs and a real life. Therefore free time is hard to come by.
You can go to any development thread skim over the last two pages and have the known issues.
bluenote73 said:
Reasoning above doesn't hold up, because each rom has things that are fixed or not fixed individually.
I'm not sure of the reasoning, and i guess different devs might have different reasons. Depending on their priorities and skill levels.
Of course if someone is cooking and theming and/or just vanilla compiling then maybe there's less reason (and perhaps more reason to deemphasize bugs?).
Anyways, i agree that an informative first post with a real change log and working and non working features is a very handy thing to have.
Sent from my LG-P999
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you can't see the reasoning. Then I would like to see the roms you have posted that are not based on one of the bases I listed.
There is this thing called github that most of us use. If you want a "real" change log its there that you'll find it.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
kwes1020 said:
You can go to any development thread skim over the last two pages and have the known issues.
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Click to collapse
The above isn't even remotely true.
Are you done speaking for all developers yet? I would guess each one can speak for themselves, don't you think?
kwes1020 said:
If you can't see the reasoning. Then I would like to see the roms you have posted that are not based on one of the bases I listed.
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Click to collapse
I guess your reading comprehension isn't very good. I explained why and how there may be differences. If your experience is mainly doing what I called "vanilla compiling" or theming then I guess I could see how you would generalize that all ROMs will be the same though.
kwes1020 said:
There is this thing called github that most of us use. If you want a "real" change log its there that you'll find it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure why you feel the need and give yourself the permission to get up on your high horse here. I'm aware of source control and I was using it and writing C code nearly 20 years ago although I'm not a programmer now nor was I then but thanks for informing me. I also note the lack of a git or other source control published in the first post of your ROM in the dev section. As I'm sure you know many (most?) other ROM's don't either in there.
Not sure what you're afraid of to be getting your back up. Nobody cares if you just barely learned how, or are an expert at, writing code. People will appreciate a community contribution regardless.
bluenote73 said:
The above isn't even remotely true.
Are you done speaking for all developers yet? I would guess each one can speak for themselves, don't you think?
I guess your reading comprehension isn't very good. I explained why and how there may be differences. If your experience is mainly doing what I called "vanilla compiling" or theming then I guess I could see how you would generalize that all ROMs will be the same though.
I'm not sure why you feel the need and give yourself the permission to get up on your high horse here. I'm aware of source control and I was using it and writing C code nearly 20 years ago although I'm not a programmer now nor was I then but thanks for informing me. I also note the lack of a git or other source control published in the first post of your ROM in the dev section. As I'm sure you know many (most?) other ROM's don't either in there.
Not sure what you're afraid of to be getting your back up. Nobody cares if you just barely learned how, or are an expert at, writing code. People will appreciate a community contribution regardless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well plainly you have not read the umpteen million threads regarding lg and nvidias lack of open source. If you want the source for any of the roms I've posted that are based off of a stock rom. My source is right there in the rom. Decompile it and look at it. Just like i decompiled it and modded it. You want the source for my cm/aosp based roms its on my github. Want the source for aokp? Its on github and gerrit.
People clearly appreciate my contributions in the android community. I'd say 1000s of downloads and being kanged countless times can prove that. And in case you haven't noticed their aren't many devs in the g2x community. And certainly hardly any of them are going to come answer a thread posted in the wrong section.
Lastly I am not on any high horse nor have I ever been. I have done more then my part to help and contribute to this community. When you post something constructive then you can try to bring your constructive criticism my way.
That is all have a good day. We will post our threads how we want to. Please learn to read a few replies and the answers are there.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
kwes1020 said:
Well plainly you have not read the umpteen million threads regarding lg and nvidias lack of closed source. If you want the source for any of the roms I've posted that are based off of a stock rom. My source is right there in the rom. Decompile it and look at it. Just like i decompiled it and modded it. You want the source for my cm/aosp based roms its on my github. Want the source for aokp? Its on github and gerrit.
People clearly appreciate my contributions in the android community. I'd say 1000s of downloads and being kanged countless times can prove that. And in case you haven't noticed their aren't many devs in the g2x community. And certainly hardly any of them are going to come answer a thread posted in the wrong section.
Lastly I am not on any high horse nor have I ever been. I have done more then my part to help and contribute to this community. When you post something constructive then you can try to bring your constructive criticism my way.
That is all have a good day. We will post our threads how we want to. Please learn to read a few replies and the answers are there.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
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Click to collapse
Pretty sure this response answers the OP's question far better than I ever could have. Thanks for demonstrating.
As im sure most of you all know, I have locked the Unofficial CM10 thread. It isnt because of one person or one event, but something that has been coming for a long time. I have been stressing myself with this build and making sure that everyone was happy and doing pretty much everything i could do, but it didnt seem to be enough. While i appreciate the feedback, it is very disappointing to release cm10.1 when pretty much no other phones have released it (due to the lack of source merged and changes necessary for jellybean 4.2.1) and have nothing but post after post of this doesnt work and this doesnt look right and this is running horrible and blah blah blah even after i made it absolutely clear time after time that there may be issues since there is alot of source changes that are missing. You would think that since i took the time to merge the needed changes and work tirelessly to make changes and get the changes merged into our device/kernel trees to get CM 10.1 built and IMO running nicely, there would be alot of positive feedback and alot of understanding from the community that there may be little issues here and there since not everything was completely merged in on the CM side, but that was not the case as everyone expects perfection right and nothing else. Anyways, with that said, Building CM10 was becoming more of a job instead of something fun that i loved to do. And believe me... I havent had nearly enough donations to be ok with considering this a job... Nor do i expect alot of donations and for those of you who have supported me, I greatly appreciate it. I WILL CONTINUE to build CM10 and posting new builds on my goo page found HERE. I will not however be unlocking the CM10 thread. So... If you like my work and like my builds, keep an eye on my goo page and download when you are notified there is an update. If you like the build, great... if not, flash something else.
scott.hart.bti said:
As im sure most of you all know, I have locked the Unofficial CM10 thread. It isnt because of one person or one event, but something that has been coming for a long time. I have been stressing myself with this build and making sure that everyone was happy and doing pretty much everything i could do, but it didnt seem to be enough. While i appreciate the feedback, it is very disappointing to release cm10.1 when pretty much no other phones have released it (due to the lack of source merged and changes necessary for jellybean 4.2.1) and have nothing but post after post of this doesnt work and this doesnt look right and this is running horrible and blah blah blah even after i made it absolutely clear time after time that there may be issues since there is alot of source changes that are missing. You would think that since i took the time to merge the needed changes and work tirelessly to make changes and get the changes merged into our device/kernel trees to get CM 10.1 built and IMO running nicely, there would be alot of positive feedback and alot of understanding from the community that there may be little issues here and there since not everything was completely merged in on the CM side, but that was not the case as everyone expects perfection right and nothing else. Anyways, with that said, Building CM10 was becoming more of a job instead of something fun that i loved to do. And believe me... I havent had nearly enough donations to be ok with considering this a job... Nor do i expect alot of donations and for those of you who have supported me, I greatly appreciate it. I WILL CONTINUE to build CM10 and posting new builds on my goo page found HERE. I will not however be unlocking the CM10 thread. So... If you like my work and like my builds, keep an eye on my goo page and download when you are notified there is an update. If you like the build, great... if not, flash something else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you have a charachter flaw. you're a people pleaser. once you get over that and become a true asshole you will be much happier in life.
Dani897 said:
you have a charachter flaw. you're a people pleaser. once you get over that and become a true asshole you will be much happier in life.
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Click to collapse
Lol! So true!
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda app-developers app
Just wanted to put my two cents in...I've been an avid user of the roms from this site for quite awhile now & have never felt the need to register because any issues I've ever had,I've been able to rectify with some searching or have been on roms that have clearly stated they were beta's & expected to have flaws. That being said...after watching what happened on your infuse board, I just wanted to let you know the fact that you're continuing to develop & keep our phones updated with the best features gave me the first true reason to register so I could say thanks...
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda app-developers app
Thank You.
I don't blame Scott for having the thread closed, not one bit.
And Dani is correct, Scott's character flaw is only that he's missing the "asshole" gene that some tend to have.
Now on to the good part...
I'm getting back into the swing of things as far as porting and development goes. My first attempt is going to be a nearly pure AOSP build using Aries repos and some Maguro/Takju code base, with parts from the most recent CM10.1 base. I have an idea of what I want to incorporate, but it should be light and clean, with a smooth interface.
Scott, I will be in touch with you shortly on this, as I need to finish and finalize my SDK installs and get everything going correctly for a first build.
Just checked Scotts goo link. Can I safely assume the development continues? If so hallelujah the infuse lives on.
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda app-developers app
Most of the people that posted just wanted insight on their issues. Personally, I posted there because I felt I wasn't getting any response in the Q&A thread.
I think we should learn from the miscommunication.
One of the bigger problems we faced was that the build thread was the most responsive place to get an answer, and the bugs people had weren't clearly documented somewhere (you can't tell someone to search 500+ pages, find a bug, match it to their build, etc) so they could find and know NOT to post about it.
Going forward, maybe we can have:
Build thread- keep updated on the status of the build
Bug thread- to review / report the current build bugs
Q&A thread- how do I rotate the screen, why is this doing that, etc
Thoughts?
hattrickinc said:
Most of the people that posted just wanted insight on their issues. Personally, I posted there because I felt I wasn't getting any response in the Q&A thread.
I think we should learn from the miscommunication.
One of the bigger problems we faced was that the build thread was the most responsive place to get an answer, and the bugs people had weren't clearly documented somewhere (you can't tell someone to search 500+ pages, find a bug, match it to their build, etc) so they could find and know NOT to post about it.
Going forward, maybe we can have:
Build thread- keep updated on the status of the build
Bug thread- to review / report the current build bugs
Q&A thread- how do I rotate the screen, why is this doing that, etc
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But Scott specifically asked multiple times not to post bugs on the 4.2/cm10.1 releases due to the fact that source is still being merged -cm said themselves that the 4.2 code would be buggy and that you probably wouldn't be able to build anything with it...for the most part Scott proved both of those wrong
However I do like the idea of the three threads
Sent from my HTC Holiday using Tapatalk 2
openwheelracing said:
Just checked Scotts goo link. Can I safely assume the development continues? If so hallelujah the infuse lives on.
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scott.hart.bti said:
I WILL CONTINUE to build CM10 and posting new builds on my goo page found HERE. I will not however be unlocking the CM10 thread. So... If you like my work and like my builds, keep an eye on my goo page and download when you are notified there is an update. If you like the build, great... if not, flash something else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, he will keep developing, but don't expect to see updates on this forum, which is a shame. His CM10 thread was actually the only reason I got on XDA.
Thanks for the update, Scott. Don't let the drama llamas get you down
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda app-developers app
hattrickinc said:
Most of the people that posted just wanted insight on their issues. Personally, I posted there because I felt I wasn't getting any response in the Q&A thread.
I think we should learn from the miscommunication.
One of the bigger problems we faced was that the build thread was the most responsive place to get an answer, and the bugs people had weren't clearly documented somewhere (you can't tell someone to search 500+ pages, find a bug, match it to their build, etc) so they could find and know NOT to post about it.
Going forward, maybe we can have:
Build thread- keep updated on the status of the build
Bug thread- to review / report the current build bugs
Q&A thread- how do I rotate the screen, why is this doing that, etc
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the most part I agree with you. Its why I probably pissed a bunch of people off defending the late comers and those that just don't know about logcats and such.
However, it was stated multiple times by not just Scott but the more senior and knowledgeable members that the 4.2 was going to have problems.
I agree searching through 1000 plus posts can be a daunting task and maybe I just don't have a life but I've done it for every ICS/JB rom I've flashed.. But I was there at the beginning of that development so it made it easier. But you didn't have to read more than 2 pages between warnings for the 4.2.
I'm on Scott's side on this one.
If nothing else click on the op's profile and just read all their posts.
Personally I think only devs should be allowed to post on a dev thread but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda app-developers app
I agree. I think there should be a minimum post count of 100 and a requirement to agree to a separate 'contract' to post in dev. threads. I read dev threads to find out what's going on in development not the rubbish that appears in most dev threads. The infuse forums have been fairly tolerant of this kind of thing. Other forums on xda, much less so.
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda app-developers app
Changelog
I think another part of the problem is that very little actual development discussion happens here. It seems that people release their stuff here, and respond to bug reports, but that's about it. You can learn a lot about Linux by reading the archives of the Linux Kernel Mailing List (LKML). It's not quite the same situation here, learning about android is much harder (i have yet to find an android equivalent for the LKML)
Anyway, Thanks for continuing development! Will you be posting a change log between releases? I just like to know what I'm flashing ahead of time
Thanks,
woody
Scotts just released CM10.1 on goomanager 12/10 build go check it out
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda app-developers app
Scott,
Glad to see you will be still be developing. Will there be some type of change log somewhere that we can view? I agree with some of the past. 500 pages of posts to read/search is alot. possibly a better brake down would have keep people posting in the correct places. Also with the 4.2 merge MY opionion would have been to make a separate thread as the last 4.1.2 was stable and really usable as its still my current daily. If the items arent merged maybe it isnt a good idea to even make a realease unless its to a few beta testers. That way 100s of people dont whine and complain about known or dumb issues.
Either way keeep up the good work.
Not sure how it would be accomplished, but a good idea would be to remove all posts from the cm10 thread and only scott could post in it (updates/changelog).
I have no idea how feasible that would be though.
Many thanks to scott
Hi scott, I never felt the need to comment in your thread because I never had any problems with your ROM.
But now I feel the need to comment here to express my gratitude for all the hard work that you have put into this ROM.
Your ROM is the first one that I tried, and also the best one I've seen/used. I'm VERY glad that you will continue your work for the Infuse.
Again, I thank you for your work, and I will be looking forward to future updates!
UnhoIy said:
His CM10 thread was actually the only reason I got on XDA.
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Click to collapse
This^
hovin1988 said:
Hi scott, I never felt the need to comment in your thread because I never had any problems with your ROM.
But now I feel the need to comment here to express my gratitude for all the hard work that you have put into this ROM.
Your ROM is the first one that I tried, and also the best one I've seen/used. I'm VERY glad that you will continue your work for the Infuse.
Again, I thank you for your work, and I will be looking forward to future updates!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And this^
I generally just read through the thread reading peoples issues if i ran into one rather than post. Issues were always sorted out if i kept reading. But thanks for all your hard work in creating roms, I know i'd be really bad off without them :good:
I think the communication and forum issues are simply a result of using a forum for "developer collaboration". Then to top it off, many are using tapatalk, which has the most useless search feature ever. I've heard the argument that a proper browser should be used, but many just won't.
As long as a forum is used for xda development, it will continue to be more like a ROM forum than anything else intended without ridiculous amounts of moderation (even judicious use of temp bans without warning).
Forums are good for arguing lol. Bugtrackers are good for tracking bugs, especially since they are easy to police. If you want feedback as well, make a special category for that. Duplicates and invalid reports can be easily identified and marked as such. For all other forums(general, q&a, accessories, etc.) a forum makes sense to me. For the development forum, a forum, IMO, makes little sense.
If the forum format is used in order to foster community, fine. You can expect a lot of drama, arguing, complaining, and everything else that goes along with it.
Just my opinion. I could be completely wrong.
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda app-developers app lol