Database Info

Root question before I start

I have a B60 transformer with 3.2.1 HTK75_US_epad-8.6.5.13 on it.
From the reading I have done I should be able to use the 7.1 universal root kit.
My questions are
Where can I get the stock ROM to unroot it and set back to stock if I need to?
Other than updating CWM after using the root kit is there anything else I need to do.
I have rooted my EVO 4g phone and swapped out the rom many times so I'm hoping it is a lot like that but I'm new to this and just do not want to make any mistakes. I have tried to search and read as much as I can but there is tons of info on the forum and lots of it does not match or is very old.
Sorry if this is a newbee questions but I have to learn somewhere.
If you have links please post them and I will read that info.
Thanks
Brandon

ASUS has the stock roms on their website, but the 8.6.5.13 probably isn't available yet as a full rom, just an OTA. There are older versions available, such as 8.6.5.9, but I'm not sure if you can flash to an older version with the built in updater. Once the full rom is released, chances are better you can update back to stock. With nvflash and your B60, you can flash anything you want.
I haven't tried it, but I think that that root tool will let you back up before you flash.

gee one said:
I haven't tried it, but I think that that root tool will let you back up before you flash.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it will ask you if you want to backup before you root but it tells you it could take 4 to 5 hours.

I have rooted and unrooted with this below method many times. I don't need to go looking for a stock rom...it simply reverses the procedure as far as I know...look into it...now if you go for a custom rom your on your own.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1198303

Thank you everyone for your answers, I did the full backup which did not take long as I had done a reset before I started and wiped everything.
The root was painless and is done.
For now I think I will stay with the stock ROM but I'm now going to look for a Kernel to OC it to 1.2-1.4 if I can.
Thanks again
Brandon

[Q] Returning to Stock Recovery

I want to return to the stock recovery for my Sensation 4G, so I can get the OTA ICS update when it's finally available.
Previously I used the Android Recovery Manager tool for this, but it doesn't have the most current recovery image for my software version (1.50.531.1).
Is there an alternative method I can use to return to the stock recovery? (Pardon my n00bery.)

PS: Meant to mention that I'm already on the stock ROM and would prefer not to have to completely reflash the RUU. All I need is the right recovery and I'll be set.

GoodbyeSky said:
I want to return to the stock recovery for my Sensation 4G, so I can get the OTA ICS update when it's finally available.
Previously I used the Android Recovery Manager tool for this, but it doesn't have the most current recovery image for my software version (1.50.531.1).
Is there an alternative method I can use to return to the stock recovery? (Pardon my n00bery.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To get official updates you should revert back to stock and have to flash a suitable RUU for your phone..
If you find my ans useful please hit thanks

You can use any recovery from an RUU to get back to stock recovery - they aren't RUU specific.
However, it's better to get back to stock using an RUU as flashing an OTA over a rooted phone can create problems. You can always root again afterwards if you want to
Good thing about S-OFF is you won't lose it by flashing an RUU so you have no issues there

EddyOS said:
You can use any recovery from an RUU to get back to stock recovery - they aren't RUU specific.
However, it's better to get back to stock using an RUU as flashing an OTA over a rooted phone can create problems. You can always root again afterwards if you want to
Good thing about S-OFF is you won't lose it by flashing an RUU so you have no issues there
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you're saying that I could get back to stock recovery by using Android Recovery Manager and flashing the recovery from a software version earlier than my current 1.50.531.1?
I appreciate the note about not flashing an OTA update while rooted. I'll definitely avoid that.

Yep, I've attached the recovery from 1.50.401.1 to this post

EddyOS said:
Yep, I've attached the recovery from 1.50.401.1 to this post
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ooh! Many thanks!

Why not wait for a custom rom with this as base? Makes more sense to me :/

There are already a load out - go look in the Dev forum

Actually, I am curious about the "don't flash OTA while rooted" bit. I've done this before without a problem, but hadn't heard any warnings before either. Just wondering if there is somewhere I can go to read more about this.
As to why I don't just wait for a custom ROM -- won't it be easier to flash a custom ICS ROM coming from HTC's stock ICS RUU rather than trying to get there from my current stock gingerbread ROM? Just trying to make things easier on myself, I spoze.

So long as you flash the right FW package before booting the custom ROM it'll work fine
As for no OTA no a rooted phone it's traditionally been advised against as the OTA can break a bit of the System so it's always recommended to not flash an OTA on a rooted phone

EddyOS said:
So long as you flash the right FW package before booting the custom ROM it'll work fine
As for no OTA no a rooted phone it's traditionally been advised against as the OTA can break a bit of the System so it's always recommended to not flash an OTA on a rooted phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In that case, I'd say the only thing holding me back from going the custom route is finding a ROM that's as reliable as stock. As much as I love custom ROMs, my experience has been that a few weeks in I realize that some key feature that I rely on is broken, so I wind up going back to stock. Although I do follow the dev forum closely, and am super intrigued by some of the current ROMs, Virtuous Inquisition in particular. Once their list of bugs is a little more lean, I'll probably get to flashing that one.

GoodbyeSky said:
In that case, I'd say the only thing holding me back from going the custom route is finding a ROM that's as reliable as stock. As much as I love custom ROMs, my experience has been that a few weeks in I realize that some key feature that I rely on is broken, so I wind up going back to stock. Although I do follow the dev forum closely, and am super intrigued by some of the current ROMs, Virtuous Inquisition in particular. Once their list of bugs is a little more lean, I'll probably get to flashing that one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only main bug IMO is the Exchange issue not syncing. Other than that, for me, nothing holding me back from using this as my daily driver. But users may vary I guess. For me, bluetooth a2dp is the top of my list because I use a bt speaker in my truck. Other than that the VI 4.0 rom is pretty nifty.
The tracker link you posted, while lists a lot of outstanding issue, IMO are stemmed from the rom being modified in some way. I am not saying that all the issues will be solved by just flashing the unmodified rom, because there was an issue with the bundled kernel in 4.0 not working really well with the browsers. Another member repacked it with a kernel that worked and all is good again.
So I say make a backup of your stock setup and try it out. What do you have to loose? If you like stock, stick with stock. If you like to modify your stuff like most do here, then do a nandroid and start flashing!

kpjimmy said:
The only main bug IMO is the Exchange issue not syncing. Other than that, for me, nothing holding me back from using this as my daily driver. But users may vary I guess. For me, bluetooth a2dp is the top of my list because I use a bt speaker in my truck. Other than that the VI 4.0 rom is pretty nifty.
The tracker link you posted, while lists a lot of outstanding issue, IMO are stemmed from the rom being modified in some way. I am not saying that all the issues will be solved by just flashing the unmodified rom, because there was an issue with the bundled kernel in 4.0 not working really well with the browsers. Another member repacked it with a kernel that worked and all is good again.
So I say make a backup of your stock setup and try it out. What do you have to loose? If you like stock, stick with stock. If you like to modify your stuff like most do here, then do a nandroid and start flashing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I'm easily tempted so now I probably will, but doesn't a nandroid backup only get me halfway there? If I find myself wanting to restore that backup I'll need to flash my old firmware again, right? I guess I'm just nervous about messing with my firmware since I've never done that before, but it sounds like I should probably just get over it. =)

[Q] questions about I727UCALC4 att update

ok i have downloaded the I727UCALC4 leaked update for the galaxy s2 skyrocket and i have a few questions i hope someone anyone out there who has tried it can answer.
1. how is the performance? does it slow down the phone?
2. is there a big change in the user interface?
3. can i flash this rom without tripping the flash counter?
4. if this rom is actually from at&t will it void my warranty?
5. do i need to be rooted to flash this rom?
6. if i dont like this update can i go back to the stock rom?
7. if so how would i return to stock rom if i wanted to?
8. does ice cream sandwich live up to all the hype ive heard?
9. any glitches or any problems? anything thats not working or unstable?
sorry for so many questions i just cant find that much info on how it actually works after you install it. right now all the info is about how to install it and not about after... any help on these questions would be greatly appreciated since im having trouble deciding and finding the answers to my questions.... thanks guys....

garydv2002 said:
ok i have downloaded the I727UCALC4 leaked update for the galaxy s2 skyrocket and i have a few questions i hope someone anyone out there who has tried it can answer.
1. how is the performance? does it slow down the phone?
2. is there a big change in the user interface?
3. can i flash this rom without tripping the flash counter?
4. if this rom is actually from at&t will it void my warranty?
5. do i need to be rooted to flash this rom?
6. if i dont like this update can i go back to the stock rom?
7. if so how would i return to stock rom if i wanted to?
8. does ice cream sandwich live up to all the hype ive heard?
9. any glitches or any problems? anything thats not working or unstable?
sorry for so many questions i just cant find that much info on how it actually works after you install it. right now all the info is about how to install it and not about after... any help on these questions would be greatly appreciated since im having trouble deciding and finding the answers to my questions.... thanks guys....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should use the search function of the forum. All of the questions you asked have been discussed many times and I find it hard to believe that you looked because many of the questions you asked are stickied or are still on the first page. I'm telling you this because there is a lot of information to cover on your questions (many of them could possibly have several different answers) and the easiest way for you to get all of the information you need is to look at what people have already said and done. There is even a "One Stop Shop ICS" thread that is stickied in the DEV section. Nope, I can't believe you even tried...but good luck and read as much as you can. Short-cuts will only get you a bricked phone.

well i have read alot and i think that may be my problem. i have read alot on android 4.0.3 and i have found info that the nexus got it first and this update is way different for the skyrocket. like the user interface is way different. cant seem to find a straight answer on it as people seem to be split on the user interface. thats why i wanted someone who has actually installed it to kinda point me in the right direction on some of my questions. i dont mind reading info but im new to this sight and am just figuring out how to search for info on xda. typing questions in google has gotten me only more confused. ive had good luck on xda in the past and trust the info on this site above any other. if you could copy and paste some links i dont mind doing my own reasearch as a matter of fact i had rather that way i can download what i need as i go..... thanks

ok i found the all things ics forum you were talking about so im gonna read all that info and if i still have any questions ill come back and ask. if anyone has any links to info they feel might help feel free to post them. also if you know of any better ics roms than this leaked one for the skyrocket feel free to post links on those. thanks for pointing me in the right direction now maybe i can find enough info to make up my mind on whether to flash this rom or wait for a better one or the official release.. thanks again...

garydv2002 said:
well i have read alot and i think that may be my problem. i have read alot on android 4.0.3 and i have found info that the nexus got it first and this update is way different for the skyrocket. like the user interface is way different. cant seem to find a straight answer on it as people seem to be split on the user interface. thats why i wanted someone who has actually installed it to kinda point me in the right direction on some of my questions. i dont mind reading info but im new to this sight and am just figuring out how to search for info on xda. typing questions in google has gotten me only more confused. ive had good luck on xda in the past and trust the info on this site above any other. if you could copy and paste some links i dont mind doing my own reasearch as a matter of fact i had rather that way i can download what i need as i go..... thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1573218
Start from the top and work your way down. If you have an I727 I would definately only research ICS on the I727 and not any other phone. As you said, they are different. You will also find that there are no 100% answers on a lot of your questions. What works on one phone might act a little different on another. That is why it is better to read and be prepared...just in case.

cwm
will the att ics update remove clock work mod from my phone? i just flashed cwm and made a back up of my stock gb rom but want to be able to flash back using cwm if i dont like the leaked update

garydv2002 said:
will the att ics update remove clock work mod from my phone? i just flashed cwm and made a back up of my stock gb rom but want to be able to flash back using cwm if i dont like the leaked update
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you use the "Odin" version (One click Odin with the ICS leak) you will need to put cwm back on your phone via Odin. If you use cwm to install one of the custom ROMS you will retain cwm. Directions on how to put cwm back on your phone can be found in the "DEV" section. If you use the ODIN method you will need to re-root anyway, I prefer Copperhed's method...again, found in the "DEV" section. Good luck.

cwm
well i found a stock rom thats not a odin one click and not from a backup but it is stock. if i put the tar file on my sd can i flash it with cwm and if so will i lose it that way or do i need to find a rom already rooted injected with cwm? sorry for so many questions...

garydv2002 said:
well i found a stock rom thats not a odin one click and not from a backup but it is stock. if i put the tar file on my sd can i flash it with cwm and if so will i lose it that way or do i need to find a rom already rooted injected with cwm? sorry for so many questions...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do not try to flash TAR files through CWM. Only ZIP files (approved for flashing with cwm) can be flashed via CWM. TAR files are for ODIN. I suggest you learn more about the differences before trying anything. There are very direct and clear directions for all of this in the different XDA skyrocket sections (mostly in the "DEV" section). Do yourself a favor and take a week or two to do some reading and learning. Good luck.

reasearch
from all the reading i been doing all day from the everything ics forum its best to flash the odin one click first then flash cwm again and install your choice of custom roms [zip files] since im on gingerbread now. something with the modem and radio is giving alot of problems unless you flash the odin one click first. im gonna take your advice and do alot more reading before i decide. i had a captivate before i got the skyrocket and flashed many different versions thru odin on it but have never flashed a rom with cwm before. so odin or heimdall is not new too me just cwm. but now that i found out about cwm and the way it can backup roms ill never be without it again. its kinda like having life insurance it there if i screw up lol.. thanks for helping me and if i run across anything else im not sure about ill ask cause its better to ask than to mess it all up... ill let you know what i decide and how it turns out... thanks again

Well I made up my mind and flashed the odin one click leaked update of ics. Then used odin to flash clockwork mod and used cwm to then root and make a backup of ics just in case. I restored my apps and data using titanium backup and never lost any data not even on the games I play. Oh and if anyone is wondering this ics update flashing cwm and rooting did not trip the flash counter none of it did. From what I read the flash counter only moves when a custom rom is flashed and this was not a custom rom but a leaked version of stock rom to come. Also flashing cwm does not trip the counter cause you are only flashing a recovery image and not a custom rom and the root didn't cause you are not flashing anything using this method... thanks to all for the help I could not have done this without those who pointed me in the right direction..
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using XDA

garydv2002 said:
Well I made up my mind and flashed the odin one click leaked update of ics. Then used odin to flash clockwork mod and used cwm to then root and make a backup of ics just in case. I restored my apps and data using titanium backup and never lost any data not even on the games I play. Oh and if anyone is wondering this ics update flashing cwm and rooting did not trip the flash counter none of it did. From what I read the flash counter only moves when a custom rom is flashed and this was not a custom rom but a leaked version of stock rom to come. Also flashing cwm does not trip the counter cause you are only flashing a recovery image and not a custom rom and the root didn't cause you are not flashing anything using this method... thanks to all for the help I could not have done this without those who pointed me in the right direction..
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are moving in the right direction. Your next stop is "ROM flashing addiction"...enjoy (LOL).

What is your favorite ics rom? Include a link so I can check it out..
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using XDA

[Q] A700 rooting question

Hi guys,
I've searched everywhere and can't get a definitive answer on this so here goes -
I'm a noob when it comes to Android, having recently defected from being an Apple Disciple (I got hacked off with iTunes and bored in general with the Daycare Centre which is iOS) and have recently acquired an Acer A700 tablet.
I have installed the JB update OTA and everything is working fine and am chomping at the bit to get it booted, but most of the posts I have read regarding unlocking the bootloader and rooting it relate to ICS.
My questions are -
Does the bootloader process apply regardless of Firmware? (Are there different versions for different Firmwares)
Can anyone point me in the direction of a decent tutorial on how to do this?
What happens regarding a future update? Do I have to revert back to stock and update from there or can i jump from one ROM to another? (I'm assuming that I can't use the OTA updates any more)
Sorry for the long OP and thanks in advance for your answers.

ianrobbie said:
Hi guys,
I've searched everywhere and can't get a definitive answer on this so here goes -
I'm a noob when it comes to Android, having recently defected from being an Apple Disciple (I got hacked off with iTunes and bored in general with the Daycare Centre which is iOS) and have recently acquired an Acer A700 tablet.
I have installed the JB update OTA and everything is working fine and am chomping at the bit to get it booted, but most of the posts I have read regarding unlocking the bootloader and rooting it relate to ICS.
My questions are -
Does the bootloader process apply regardless of Firmware? (Are there different versions for different Firmwares)
Can anyone point me in the direction of a decent tutorial on how to do this?
What happens regarding a future update? Do I have to revert back to stock and update from there or can i jump from one ROM to another? (I'm assuming that I can't use the OTA updates any more)
Sorry for the long OP and thanks in advance for your answers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem. Seeing you are on JB, then you have a JB bootloader.
You need to go here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1953917
And download Vorbeths easyroot2.0. It's for the 700.
You have to unlock your bootloader first, which shouldn't be an issue for you. Easy instructions for that.
Then download his package to a folder on your PC. (not sure, but you may have to download each file individually) Open a command window (shift & right mouse click) and type in whatever his instructions say. Should be painless.
Make sure USB Debugging is turned on first in your tablet (Settings/Developer Options/USB Debugging), and make sure you have the Acer Drivers installed on your PC.
Then connect, wait 30 seconds, and run his batch file.
You should be ok.
MD
Oh yes, one more thing, once you unlock your bootloader, chances are you will not be able to get OTA. And the only way to re-lock the bootloader is to install a stock rom.

Thanks!
Thanks for the reply. I am now the owner of a fully rooted A700!
Had a few issues during unlocking the bootloader. That thing timeouts quick! Also, didn't realise you had to run the .bat file while the tablet was on the Bootloader USB protocol screen. I thought you had to wait until it booted fully into JB.
Anyway, took the plunge and thanks again for your help.

ianrobbie said:
Thanks for the reply. I am now the owner of a fully rooted A700!
Had a few issues during unlocking the bootloader. That thing timeouts quick! Also, didn't realise you had to run the .bat file while the tablet was on the Bootloader USB protocol screen. I thought you had to wait until it booted fully into JB.
Anyway, took the plunge and thanks again for your help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem. I thought I mentioned it timed out in about 5 seconds These days I don't remember much
Yeah, I haven't looked at Vorbeth's script, so I don't know which screen he launches it from. With mine for the 701, you can be when the tab is running normal. No difference in the end result though
Happy Hunting!
MD

One last question - do I have to install Clockwork Recovery for re-flashing the stock images or is it just a case of renaming it update. zip and putting it on an SD Card? Any chance you can point me in the right direction of the most recent/stable build? Is it easy to install?
Thanks again.
Sent from my GT-I9305 using xda app-developers app

ianrobbie said:
One last question - do I have to install Clockwork Recovery for re-flashing the stock images or is it just a case of renaming it update. zip and putting it on an SD Card? Any chance you can point me in the right direction of the most recent/stable build? Is it easy to install?
Thanks again.
Sent from my GT-I9305 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, this is a trouble spot.
If you wish to install a custom rom, then you will need to install CWM. The most recent version.
If you want to try your luck at installing a stock rom, my opinion, is to leave the stock recovery inplace. I haven't had luck in installing stock update.zips, as Acer has made them very specific. So I can't be much help to you in that.
However, you can always flash back to CWM or a stock JB recovery pretty easy. Personally, unless you plan on flashing a custom, I would just leave the stock recovery.
MD
Sometimes "leaked" update appear here in the forums. They are unofficial. And you never know if they improve things, or make things worse. So be careful.

Moscow Desire said:
Well, this is a trouble spot.
If you wish to install a custom rom, then you will need to install CWM. The most recent version.
If you want to try your luck at installing a stock rom, my opinion, is to leave the stock recovery inplace. I haven't had luck in installing stock update.zips, as Acer has made them very specific. So I can't be much help to you in that.
However, you can always flash back to CWM or a stock JB recovery pretty easy. Personally, unless you plan on flashing a custom, I would just leave the stock recovery.
MD
Sometimes "leaked" update appear here in the forums. They are unofficial. And you never know if they improve things, or make things worse. So be careful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, just for future reference, how would I go about re-flashing the stock image? I'm assuming it's saved on the tablet in a separate partition?
I've decided to stick with the stock rooted ROM but would like to know how to re-flash for when Key Lime Pie and future updates are released.
And, seeing as how you haven't steered me wrong so far, I though I'd pick your brains one last time.
Hope you don't mind!

Need a little guidance

Hey everyone. I was wondering if some here with a HTC One can point me in the right direction. I am looking to finally take the plunge and permanently root, flash a custom recovery, backup my stock, and install a new custom rom on my Verizon M8.
This is my first HTC device playing with, I have always had Motorola stuff and am pretty familiar with the process on those, but this HTC stuff is still a little blurry. S-on/off, CID, MID, RUUs????
I have been reading these forums for quite a bit and still a little unsure about what the steps would have to be. I am currently on the latest stock VZW temp rooted with the new weeksauce basically just to have tethering via a 3rd party app (Wifi tether router). I actually really, really like the stock Sense 6.0 UI and this phone is pretty much perfect all around.
What I want to do is, permanently root, install TWRP as that's what i've used on Moto and my Sammy Tab, backup my stock system so I can go back, and then install a custom ROM. Can TWRP on this do more than one ROM slot and run dual roms? What if everything gets jacked up and I have to go back to complete out of the box stock? How is that done with HTC? I think with Moto it was like an .FXZ file or something like that and you boot the phone into download mode and just flash that file from the computer and you're back to 100% stock. Same with Samsung using ODIN.
I'm also not sure what ROM I want to try, so I am open to suggestions there too. I would like to maybe try a pretty clean Lollipop ROM with good battery life and very stable. Would that be the GPE?
Thanks for reading and for any help.

baune7 said:
Hey everyone. I was wondering if some here with a HTC One can point me in the right direction. I am looking to finally take the plunge and permanently root, flash a custom recovery, backup my stock, and install a new custom rom on my Verizon M8.
This is my first HTC device playing with, I have always had Motorola stuff and am pretty familiar with the process on those, but this HTC stuff is still a little blurry. S-on/off, CID, MID, RUUs????
I have been reading these forums for quite a bit and still a little unsure about what the steps would have to be. I am currently on the latest stock VZW temp rooted with the new weeksauce basically just to have tethering via a 3rd party app (Wifi tether router). I actually really, really like the stock Sense 6.0 UI and this phone is pretty much perfect all around.
What I want to do is, permanently root, install TWRP as that's what i've used on Moto and my Sammy Tab, backup my stock system so I can go back, and then install a custom ROM. Can TWRP on this do more than one ROM slot and run dual roms? What if everything gets jacked up and I have to go back to complete out of the box stock? How is that done with HTC? I think with Moto it was like an .FXZ file or something like that and you boot the phone into download mode and just flash that file from the computer and you're back to 100% stock. Same with Samsung using ODIN.
I'm also not sure what ROM I want to try, so I am open to suggestions there too. I would like to maybe try a pretty clean Lollipop ROM with good battery life and very stable. Would that be the GPE?
Thanks for reading and for any help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First you need s-off/unlocked boot loader to perma root..also there is multi ROM support for this device. An if you want to return to pure stock cause something got messed up then you download the ruu an use fast boot via pc to flash your ruu.zip it will wipe your whole phone an return you to out of the box. if your looking for a sense Lollipop from. Santod has a nice ROM an you can also check out the ROM by andybones is also runs very nice an has themes an mod support. If you like GPE then there is one of those also for our device.

Thanks for the info. So in my reading up on doing this, is the "firewater" method of achieving S-off and root no longer working on this phone with 4.4.4? And also, as I understand it, the Sunshine method of achieving the two may or may not work on 4.4.4 either, kind of a 50/50 shot??? So I guess at this time it might just be worth it to wait until either the new sunshine is released or Verizon pushed the 5.0 update out and see what that is like.

baune7 said:
Thanks for the info. So in my reading up on doing this, is the "firewater" method of achieving S-off and root no longer working on this phone with 4.4.4? And also, as I understand it, the Sunshine method of achieving the two may or may not work on 4.4.4 either, kind of a 50/50 shot??? So I guess at this time it might just be worth it to wait until either the new sunshine is released or Verizon pushed the 5.0 update out and see what that is like.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Firewater is dead....sunshine might work you can download the app for free an run it to see if it will work with your device is free too. Then if you want to run sunshine that's when you pay the 25...so I would advice against taking anymore ota till you r able to s-off.