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1- OTA updater has been broken for six days, now (it started on Monday). This is completely unacceptable, given that this is the ONLY way to get updates from them officially. What if you got the item from Tiger Direct in the last week at $299, and have build 2963 on it? If you didn't go to XDA and fix this manually yourself, you'd be SOOL.
2- The last official firmware was in mid January. We are going on three months since the last stock update. We know there was a UAT that was significantly better than the one in January, but it was never released (and eventually pulled from the TapnTap servers) with a "TBD" for the new ETA.
I'm going to very blunt, and I hope that Viewsonic is reading this. I'm very disappointed in how this is all going down, ESPECIALLY given that you've had a big bump in user numbers in the last two weeks or so. You and I both know this, and yet you can't seem to get your act together, here.
I'm not your developer - you are not paying me, or XDA, to do your support work for you. And we certainly should not be the place to send users to get their stock updates - that's just ridiculous. Please get a meeting together with TapnTap, or whoever you need to, early next week and get them to fix these issues, please. If I were running the show over there, I'd have them on the phone a week ago asking for an ETA ASAP, and updating that web site with details on what's going on and when it will be fixed. Seriously, your web site still talks about the December firmware release (the one, btw, that the poor Tiger Direct users haven't been able to even get, since Monday) - are your web developers asleep over there?
If it wasn't for the user base here in XDA, my device would have probably been wiped and cleaned up right about now, and I would have put this thing up for sale. I actually know at least one dev here in XDA who's already done this. And, as time goes on, I'll be more inclined to do this if you've made the decision to completely abandon this device. Because, to be blunt, this is the perception that I'm starting to get, as the days drag on with no resolution.
I'm not asking for Honeycomb - I just want you to get your current problems fixed and at least get that 1.2 dev branch released. I know you have an account here, so maybe a reply to this thread would set all our minds at ease.
Thank you.
4/11/2011 EDIT -- agree with me and want your voice heard?
twitter: @viewsonic
contact us page: http://www.viewsonic.com/contact/
Phone Number: 866-501-6405 / 310-228-4000. (thanks snapz54 and chili_red!)
4/12/2011 EDIT -- OTA updater is still borked, as of this writing. And the next firmware update, as per their web site, is now "anticipated" in May.
4/13/2011 EDIT -- Even more details on who you can contact (thanks snapz54!): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=12843221&postcount=189 The OTA Updater is still down, but should be up tomorrow (allegedly).
4/14/2011 EDIT -- OTA updater is up, finally. Showing "3588" as the latest, so no new update (this was not a surprise).
4/15/2011 EDIT -- I think it's time to change the title of this post.
6/22/2011 EDIT -- Thread is still alive? 4349 was pulled in mid-April, still no word on an update from them 2 months later. 3588 (from January) is still technically their "latest", as per the OTA updater. I am actually beyone aggravated, I am apathetic at this point.
I am going to return mine soon too, even at 299.99 , lack support = nth
Op why did you post this in the dev section
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk
roebeet
+1 from Russia
roebeet said:
1- OTA updater has been broken for six days, now (it started on Monday). This is completely unacceptable, given that this is the ONLY way to get updates from them officially. What if you got the item from Tiger Direct in the last week at $299, and have build 2963 on it? If you didn't go to XDA and fix this manually yourself, you'd be SOOL.
2- The last official firmware was in mid January. We are going on three months since the last stock update. We know there was a UAT that was significantly better than the one in January, but it was never released (and eventually pulled from the TapnTap servers) with a "TBD" for the new ETA.
I'm going to very blunt, and I hope that Viewsonic is reading this. I'm very disappointed in how this is all going down, ESPECIALLY given that you've had a big bump in user numbers in the last two weeks or so. You and I both know this, and yet you can't seem to get your act together, here.
I'm not your developer - you are not paying me, or XDA, to do your support work for you. And we certainly should not be the place to send users to get their stock updates - that's just ridiculous. Please get a meeting together with TapnTap, or whoever you need to, early next week and get them to fix these issues, please. If I were running the show over there, I'd have them on the phone a week ago asking for an ETA ASAP, and updating that web site with details on what's going on and when it will be fixed. Seriously, your web site still talks about the December firmware release - are your web developers asleep over there?
If it wasn't for the user base here in XDA, my device would have probably been wiped and cleaned up right about now, and I would have put this thing up for sale. I actually know at least one dev here in XDA who's already done this. And, as time goes on, I'll be more inclined to do this if you've made the decision to completely abandon this device. Because, to be blunt, this is the perception that I'm starting to get, as the days drag on with no resolution.
I'm not asking for Honeycomb - I just want you to get your current problems fixed and at least get that 1.2 dev branch released. I know you have an account here, so maybe a reply to this thread would set all our minds at ease.
Thank you.
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This is an IMPORTANT post!! I think it should be voted to the front page. Viewsonic and for that matter all suppliers should have a commitment to their users/buyers. Our $$$$ is what support them and they should respect the user community. If they want to be selling more they should make what they have work!!!!
Please vote the post to first page, have them take note and take us seriously.
Thank you roebeet!!
roebeet
+1
I suppose if I wanted to keep it stock I'd be mad too, but I purchased this device specifically due to the hardware specs and the decent set of developers here at XDA.
My tab was rooted as soon as the battery was fully charged.
My Moto droid was rooted about a month into ownership and is currently running a gingerbread rom Moto claims the device can't handle (so we can go buy a new one).
What I'm trying to point out is that there is little incentive for companies to spend time and money supporting equipment that is out in the field unless somehing is seriously wrong with it.
Viewsonic's decision to cripple (lack of full market, etc...) the stock device is really similar to VZ's decision to do the same to their phones (bloatware, etc...).
My advice to you is follow the simple instructions posted here and elsewhere on the net and install a custom rom (vegantab 5.1 is a very nice place to start).
It is very difficult to screw up and your device will be all it can be months if not years sooner than it would be waiting for a stock upgrade.
Gumby,
Roebeet is a dev here. He's responsible for the TNT Lite and GADAM ROMs and was involved with Vegan as well. He's concerned about his ability to support us, not the performance of his tablet.
I believe the majority of modders are on TNT Lite because it is the most stable and well-supported ROM available. Viewsonic/TapnTap are making his job difficult. I'm guessing, but Viewsonic/TapnTap are probably stretched trying to deliver their next devices and have basically let GTablet development come to a screeching halt.
This is a shame and will probably cause many of us to look elsewhere for our next slate.
100 % Agree
Roebeet, thanks for bringing this up. I have been discussing this we others this past week. We were wondering exactly the same thing - Where is Viewsonic? They have not put out any updates or updated the website nor given us any information. I personally cannot understand this. They have a great product and could take the lead in the tablet market but are doing nothing.
Thanks for bringing this to everyones attention Roebeet. I am behind you 100%.
The fact it is on sale at woot and tigerdirect should be enough clues that viewsonic is moving dev resources away and probably to their next tablet product.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
We aren't waiting for stock updates, the updates just give the devs more goodies to work with.
thank you roebeet, for making it feel like this community has a voice. My other device is a Locked down droid X so I know the feeling of being abandoned and laughed at by the manufacturer of your product. All these companies get a little success, but they quickly forget where they came from. I don't see anyone rushing out to line up for a viewpad and maybe it will stay that way if we continue to voice our opinions and the truth about viewsonic.
I think these companies think they can operate on the standalone GPS model of update frequency, once a year. That is not the world we live in though. I'd say two years is fair support table with a firmware update a minimum of every six months and above all else, CONSTANT OPEN COMMUNICATION WITH THE COMMUNITY THAT DEVELOPS AROUND YOUR PRODUCT.
We will fall off gradually at first, then a bit quicker, then a bit quicker still until there is an avalanche of gtabs on ebay and craigslist. Selling at 40 dollars each and being repursposed and sold as digital frames to the housewives of the world.
You've been warned Viewsonic, this is a direct clear threat. Come to the community or lose your established base and hope for anything more than a bargain bin future.
Think of how many people would have returned this product day 1 without a community, seriously consider that, the number is high. If not for the selfless efforts of people like roebeet. With no where to go, the people give up hope.
So what is it going to be?
Thanks Roebeet, very well stated. They do need to get their **** together. We know right now the product isn't up to par with competition so if they want to compete it better be in the way of support. All we ask Viewsonic, is to keep us informed!
doctorisin said:
Gumby,
Roebeet is a dev here. He's responsible for the TNT Lite and GADAM ROMs and was involved with Vegan as well. He's concerned about his ability to support us, not the performance of his tablet.
I believe the majority of modders are on TNT Lite because it is the most stable and well-supported ROM available. Viewsonic/TapnTap are making his job difficult. I'm guessing, but Viewsonic/TapnTap are probably stretched trying to deliver their next devices and have basically let GTablet development come to a screeching halt.
This is a shame and will probably cause many of us to look elsewhere for our next slate.
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Hmmm... didn't know he was a dev. Appologies, but the main points of my post are still valid (as you also noted in your speculation about their lack of support).
I guess I am wondering what they need to update that is holding up development of anything else? GB roms are out there now (and honeycomb ones won't be far off either) so what froyo fixes are showstopping?
Im_Gumby said:
Hmmm... didn't know he was a dev. Appologies, but the main points of my post are still valid (as you also noted in your speculation about their lack of support).
I guess I am wondering what they need to update that is holding up development of anything else? GB roms are out there now (and honeycomb ones won't be far off either) so what froyo fixes are showstopping?
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dude, do you realize everything you say has no basis in fact? You are telling one of the guys that is our only hope of possibly running honeycomb on the gtab his own future. How do you know we'll get the source code? How do you know it will be usable? How do you know there will be a similar device we can port from? How do you know anything?
the simple answer is you don't. You seem to be arrogant and uneducated on the subject, so kindly back out of this conversation unless you have something relevant to add. You're stealing focus from an important topic.
Im_Gumby said:
..... so what froyo fixes are showstopping?
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How about in sleep mode the gTab sucks up the battery like there's no tomorrow?
Hey Roebeet, I always thought it was SOL? But I do agree with you.
Exactly right, lets not lose focus... The scariest thing to me is that Robert is the originator of this thread. If he feels this way, then we may all be screwed as far as future support is concerned.
@Robeet -thanks for leading the charge and giving us a voice.
@Viewsonic. Please respond to this thread and keep an open dialogue with this community.
seems as if @roebeet got viewsonics attention on twitter?
any contact?
snapz54 said:
dude, do you realize everything you say has no basis in fact? You are telling one of the guys that is our only hope of possibly running honeycomb on the gtab his own future. How do you know we'll get the source code? How do you know it will be usable? How do you know there will be a similar device we can port from? How do you know anything?
the simple answer is you don't. You seem to be arrogant and uneducated on the subject, so kindly back out of this conversation unless you have something relevant to add. You're stealing focus from an important topic.
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You are right... google COULD decide not to release any more source codes.
And you might decide to be less of a tool.
Neither seems very likely.
My bad on the location - I thought I was in General when I posted this.
If a mod could move this, I'd appreciate it.
doctorisin said:
Gumby,
Roebeet is a dev here. He's responsible for the TNT Lite and GADAM ROMs and was involved with Vegan as well. He's concerned about his ability to support us, not the performance of his tablet.
I believe the majority of modders are on TNT Lite because it is the most stable and well-supported ROM available. Viewsonic/TapnTap are making his job difficult. I'm guessing, but Viewsonic/TapnTap are probably stretched trying to deliver their next devices and have basically let GTablet development come to a screeching halt.
This is a shame and will probably cause many of us to look elsewhere for our next slate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You nailed it. TNT Lite is basically an extension of stock - it gets updated, in general, when stock gets updated. If Viewsonic development dies, then TNT Lite dies - it's that simple.
We need the vendor to keep on top with updates as there are things that they can do for us, even to this day. UAT 3991 build was a perfect example (before they pulled it) - it's a MUCH better baseline to work off of than 3389 / 3588.
I know many are using the GB mods, and those would survive even if the vendor abandoned the device. But TNT Lite and anything else based off stock would fall by the wayside, and we really don't want that. Options are a good thing.
I want a response from them tomorrow or Tuesday - I don't like how they are treating their userbase right now (which includes me, as I own one) and I think we deserve an explanation and an ETA, at this point. If this happened at my day job, heads would be rolling by now.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about -- Pandigital. Their "Novel" white device was released in May and they are STILL releasing updates to it, to this day. Granted, they are still stuck on Android 2.0, but the fact they they just released an update a few weeks ago is a good sign that they haven't abandoned the device, yet. This is what I'd like to see from Viewsonic.
Im_Gumby said:
Hmmm... didn't know he was a dev. Appologies, but the main points of my post are still valid (as you also noted in your speculation about their lack of support).
I guess I am wondering what they need to update that is holding up development of anything else? GB roms are out there now (and honeycomb ones won't be far off either) so what froyo fixes are showstopping?
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Click to collapse
If you lose your XDA devs, then there IS no more development for this product. One dev here has already sold their device, and mine has been relegated as a dev unit since February (which I'm A-OK with, btw). If Viewsonic abandons this product, then the developers will eventually move on. In my case, stock updates are critical to keep TNT Lite relevant - once those are gone, TNT Lite will become stale and die. gADAM can stick around as long as Notion Ink supplies updates, and that remains to be seen as well. So don't think vendor support isn't important, because it actually is.
Well said, roebeet.
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*SIGHS*
Meanie face... *pouts in corner*
d**k <----oo
Sent from my GT-P6210 using xda premium
This has to be the most immature thing I've seen here in a while. Like people have said, it wasnt funny the first time.
Gary, you have a penchant for bragging about being some great dev, professionally and otherwise, so start acting like it. These types of threads dont help, and add nothing to the discourse. It just makes you look worse.
robyr said:
This has to be the most immature thing I've seen here in a while.
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Which part of this is immature? The part where I made sure that the sarcasm was in the first dozen characters of the message body - so that a mouse hover over the subject in the topic list would reveal it?
Or the part where I'm expressing my continued annoyance with the complete lack of realistic response from Samsung on this? (which is the point of the messsage - in case you missed it.)
As for being a great developer - this is actually quite tame compared to some of the things those better than myself (both of them, actually) have to say about samsung, HTC, and others.
I'm merely repeating what samsung's marketing department is already doing: Talking about a great ICS upgrade coming to these devices, but leaving the page blank when asked WHEN it's coming.
As for how it might make me look - I honestly couldn't care less. Because it seems to matter to you, however, I'll reveal that I didn't bother to shave this morning, and I haven't taken a shower since last night. Oh, and my shirt is wrinkled. (That has nothing to do with maturity - it's just laziness.)
Take care
Gary
laces sense of humor gently back into its hermetically sealed case:
garyd9 said:
night. Oh, and my shirt is wrinkled. (That has nothing to do with maturity - it's just laziness.)
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Thanks to Robyr, I was inspired to care how I might look. Therefore, I changed my shirt. Now it's not wrinkled. Thank you, robyr, for improving the world.
(Actually, I changed it because my cat decided to shed all over me. I just thought I'd BS a little. Perhaps it'll make someone feel more significant.)
Yeah gary, stop posting threads that play with the disrespect of samsung for us.
Sent from my GT-P6210
leodfs said:
Yeah gary, stop posting threads that play with the disrespect of samsung for us.
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Really... Wow. This is NOTHING compared to the comments I post on google+ whenever one of the samsung people write about their upgrades, new hardware, and support policies.
It should say 'Coming soon!' or 'Error Code 404: Page cannot be found'.
garyd9, At first glance I was kinda pissed about this thread then I saw the sarcastic humor in in. Then I laughed. Thanks for making my day.
I just hope that once ICS drops there is enough source to get CM9 to this device. The current ROM is laggy as hell. A nice ASOP option would be wonderful.
painter_ said:
I just hope that once ICS drops there is enough source to get CM9 to this device. The current ROM is laggy as hell. A nice ASOP option would be wonderful.
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I'd be dishonest if I didn't say that I'm close to giving up hope for this tablet. Samsung is treating it as a red-headed stepchild, and won't even release the full honeycomb sources so that the dev community can pick up the pieces and fix that which they either don't care about or don't have the resources to fix.
However, its not just this one tablet. I'm starting to notice a pattern with samsung... they do make nice devices, but once they have your money, you apparently are nothing more than excess baggage to them. Instead of giving us good support, releasing GPL'd source code, and delivering upgrades that they promised, they gave us an app we can use to complain with. I guess having an app spitting out scripted responses is cheaper than having a human doing it. It's not like you really need a human to say "it's coming soon."
They have resources developing a dozen new devices at a time (given their rate of new product announcement), but what resources are fixing the issues and keeping their existing product lines current? It doesn't seem like much.
Since ICS was released on the GSM galaxy nexus (8 months ago), how many new products has samsung released or announced? A couple tablets, and several new phones. How many existing products (which were promised ICS upgrades) have received that upgrade? Two (and at least the SGSII release was very buggy.)
Keep in mind that samsung has had the ICS sources for quite a bit longer than other companies.. Yet, other companies are upgrading their existing devices long before samsung is. Look, for example, at Asus tablets.
What does that tell me? It tells me that if I buy a samsung device, they'll treat me well for the 14 day return period, and then treat me like dirt. It tells me that a samsung device is a FOOLISH investment.
Samsung, you will NOT be getting my money for my next tablet purchase. I don't care how thin it is or how fast it might be. I'd rather have a supported product that's slightly thicker or has a slightly slower processor.
Take care
Gary
If I get a Samsung device I think it would be a Nexus as google should provide better support.
I've got a Galaxy S Vibrant and Gingerbread hasn't even been released for it. Thanks to developers here on XDA it's running ICS.
GTOJim said:
If I get a Samsung device I think it would be a Nexus as google should provide better support.
I've got a Galaxy S Vibrant and Gingerbread hasn't even been released for it. Thanks to developers here on XDA it's running ICS.
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Well you have to blame T-mobile on this. They are in control. Vibrant 4G has GB, Captivate on both Rogers and AT&T get GB, i9000 got GB long before that.
What is with ICS for GT-6201(EU 3g)? I Only see 6200 and 6210(EU wifi).
Can anyone help me?
erbeuter said:
What is with ICS for GT-6201(EU 3g)? I Only see 6200 and 6210(EU wifi).
Can anyone help me?
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same as with the one for GT P6200..STILL NOTHING!
but check out aorth's CM9 thread
Thanks bro, i have also a HD2 with ICS and the performance is awesome. So my tablet is making me crazy with the 3.2 version.
Hello,
I made that account in order write about some things that I’m annoyed of or which I find very alarming. I’m sure there are some other people in here, who feel the same. I think it’s time to change something about it. I know some of you might be not interested in that and many people just want to get CM12 as fast as possible. This people should maybe not take part of this. To each man his own. I do understand that but this is about changing CM11 to a REAL “Daily Driver”, where everything works right and stable (at least the device-independent things).
This is about the following:
For many mobile phones like the well known Samsung Galaxy Models will be a Kitkat for real the last “halfway functioning” system. Also there has been put a lot of work into CM11, which a have a lot of respect for. Newly Cyanogenmod got a company and as such this Custom Rom is totally different than others – which do their work completely non-paid and voluntary e.g. Omnirom. As a company you have, except of making a lot of money, some responsibilities. You have to place a working product on the marked and I appeal here and today for calling in this responsibility or rather to introduce CM to move form there previous “Kindergarden” to a CM11 which is made perfect. After all Cyanogenmod as a company benefits of us using CM11 (the Community/Open source Project) on your mobile phones. We users are the best Beta-Testers and if CM just doesn’t fix bugs it is not better than Samsung.
Everyday we are complaining about producers like Samsung, because they e.g. do not bring out a 4.4 for the S3. But they at least perform their obligations somehow and continue improving and fixing 4.3. Anyway it (mostly) gets a real functioning product. CM should be interested in satisfying us with this/their product (CM11/s; Oneplus one). Even if we don’t actually have Oneplus one now we are ALL potential, future costumers! And nearby the most buy a Oneplus one BECAUSE they feel confident with CM and their Android Rom! Unfortunately in reality CM11 is far away from real stability and I don’t mean features, which are hardwarenear and sources for drivers like the S3 camera are needed, but completely normal features in the system.
If you only use a few Apps a few times then the current CM11 will work for you and it is usable, but as soon as you need something which is rarely used or which is more complicated you will find bugs. Although, this could be different.
I think it’s shocking that I often read when people are swearing “why should we want Android 5.0 if not even Android 4.4 is working stable!” (Look at the people from N7000, who have not even a M-Release from CM11). But no one is doing anything against it. CM should know that there are people who want stability! Please note that I’m talking about device-independent features. Especially because CM11 current is the BASIS for the CM11S, which is the system for Oneplus one! But what does the community see? The “CM12 roadmap” in which they are talking about: “freezing” CM11 and focusing on CM12. No, that can’t be. Every lifeblood-Custom-Rom maybe could get away with that (even Omni tries to go on with 4.4 for older devices as a “long-term-project”), but no new, real organization. Some may argument and say that with CM10.2 it has been the same, that with the first Nightlys or in general at the beginning of CM11 the final has been there after a very short time, but CM 10.2 as we all know, from past developers who left CM and now work for Omnirom, never had gone through as a stable. They just wanted it to seem like that in order to get sponsors and to show with the statistics, which CM introduced at that time, how many people already use CM. And the i9300 practically is the most used device in that case!
I have posted this post on November the 22nd 2014(as abruptly the Nightlys from CM11 stood still) in a German Android Forum. On the 24th of November 2014 all the Nightlys suddenly worked again, but if you look at the most Changes you could think that CM had not interest in creating a stable OS or a really stable CM and they are only trying to make it seem like they would still work on that. (Changes like the design template file or adjusting readmes).
Nevertheless there are still many bugs and some elementary features are missing! That can’t be. The worst is, that CM doesn’t get things straight for the community. I can understand if the creators don’t want to have any pressure because many people are asking for appointments but at least they should get the things straight concerning if and how long CM11 should be supported! ESPECIALLY if CM bet on that with their Oneplus One!
I have started to work on this on November the 22nd 2014 and reported about 40 bugs and maybe needed but simply to integrate features in the CM Bugtracker JIRA. I commit that I have never done this before. I do have enough other things to do and I always thought the creators would take care of that or anyone else would report the problem. But apparently this won’t happen. In order to prohibit a fiasco like CM10.2, should we all take care of it NOW!
I will post a list of bugs and eventually some useful and first of all realisable features in the course of this theme. Some of them I already have reported –but the most of them have been closed again. One of them was a appeal to CM and it said that they should get CM11 ready and stable – this Bug of course has been closed immediately and without actual statement.
I want to ask you to vote for all these things. If you have bugs yourself and never have been reported such please make an account on JIRA, it is easy and doesn’t take much time. Even if it’s just in order to vote for my bugs and features later. It would be nice to spread this and the text in JIRA, in other Android / CM-Forums and in social networks in order to have a real group or better sent a link or the post itself to some devs of cyanogenmod so that they are knowing about the problem and can take action on this.
Please don’t see this as agitation or something like that. I have great respect to the creators and their achievements! But CM now is a company and they geared to their (potential) customers. Without us making noise CM will concentrate on CM12 and we all have (again), a half-finished “gerfrickel”-Sytem. Also think that all the improvements in CM will get back to the Custom Roms.
Willingly you can send me your bugs, ideas or suggestions per PM here but better post it here or write it down to the JIRA bugtrakcer. The more, the better!
For so many Smartphones the CM11 is the last thing which they will be seeing more or less stable without an unbelievable reduced battery power. If we don’t do something now, the game will be replayed with CM12. And don’t hope that it will be different there. A really STABLE Custom Rom – that is missing somehow. That’s at least what I think and if read in the forums now, there are many others who think the same…
I hope on active cooperation, feedbacks and opinions on that and ask for not deleting this thread but eventually moving it to the right place (maybe a seperate section about android in general?) and make it sticky for all people to see. I hope we can find some way here to CM changing his mind about working on their custom rom and supporting CM11 for some time until it's a really stable product (maybe until first or second “stable” M-release of CM12 is out). If you want a stable CM11, please write it down here!:good::victory:
BTW: I am from Germany, sorry for my maybe bad English.
Chris
Stability depends on device. CM11 is superbly stable on a Nexus 4 or 5, but could be extremely buggy on some random cheap Chinese phone bought from aliexpress because lots of people use and develop for Nexuses, but only a handful of people will be working on that Chinese one. There are also often hardware issues.
Thanks for your reply, i totally agree with you but if you have rightly read my topic you can read that I dont write about device specific features. If I can reproduce a handfull bugs everytime, on every CM11 rom, than that are real bugs on which CM should take care. I will also show some here but I need time to tanslate it here and to write it.
I also totally agree if a device have no maintainer it cant be tested and made fully working - but the problem most of the time is that there are A LOT of people who make their own kernels, own custom roms on base of CM11 and they COULD be maintainer of the device but dont want it or cant do it because of CM itself. If you look how CM is treating the people and not comunicate with them you will understand why there is a lack of maintainer and so many people which COULD be a maintainer because of the knowledge. But that is a other topic. CM need to change his way to talk with the community. If there are bugs, which are easy to reproduce and they will be reported to bugtracker and CM is closing it because the log is not attached, because the reporter CANT BRINGT IT, BUT the bug can be EASILY reproduced WITHOUT A LOG, than it is CMs fault. People want to help and they (CM) close the bugreports. It should be in their interest to test every bugreport to MAYBE find a potential bug. Also look at the bugtracker, there are issues which were reported for years and CM dont care about it. Look for the lack of using the calendar without a google account for example. On the other hand side: They add features which nobody wanted to have and mostly the people dont use. where is ther sense here?
Personally, I quit using any cm or cm based ROMs on my nexus because it seemed to lack speed and stability compared to stock or aosp based ROMs.
I had better luck with early custom lollipop ROMs than with cm. Right now I'm using slimkat until black themed lollipop ROMs are stable and bug free.
So basically, I agree that cm should be more stable. But I don't really care cause there are lots of good options out there instead of cm.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Free mobile app
Ow mannnnn .. Thank you so much !!! you are pro !!!
Well first thing is that bugs happen when you use open source drivers and software. This is because it is not coded just for a single device like the OEM drivers and software is.
Second CM is not required to do anything. That includes fixing bugs that they don't care about.
Next. And to be flatly honest they have no reason to talk to the community. Can't blame them as most have nothing more productive to say then "duh this is busted" why talk to those people when you can talk to people that can offer advise and maybe help salve an issue. Nor are they required to post any update at all.
Devs have the right to post a build in the OP and never post support, leaving all support up to the user's.
It doesn't matter if you can produce the error. They have their rules about posting bug reports. If you don't follow them and it gets closed without it even being looked at well then that's your fault.
If you want stable then stay stock. Or learn to fix it yourself. There is no obligation for anyone to even touch aosp based code. Even Google has most stopped updating those apps and files.
Now as for you saying device independent issues. The issue here is that one device could be rebooting every ten min but other devices don't do it.
The only device as a company they need to worry about is the one that sells with their roms. All others are hobby projects and treated as such.
zelendel said:
Well first thing is that bugs happen when you use open source drivers and software. This is because it is not coded just for a single device like the OEM drivers and software is. .
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Firstly thanks for your feedback
I dont understand what you want to say. If bugs happen and when is not the content of the topic. I am using linux on my workstation and server itself, everyday. (Linus Torvalds is also talking to the people). I know that bugs can happen and open source drivers and software can have bugs. I do not blame people for this. I do respect their work! I blame people for activly ignoring bugs which are easy to fix (atleast for this people) and activly ignoring bugs in addition to don't communicate why they don't care about this bugs which they could easily fix. This is a human fault. I also have written in my text above that I DO NOT MEAN DEVICE SPECIFIC BUGS. So I don't really understand whats your point here, sorry.
zelendel said:
Second CM is not required to do anything. That includes fixing bugs that they don't care about.
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Click to collapse
Yes, in theory they dont have to do anything. But we are all human. We have a moral commitment. Also I think every group who wants to make their custom rom succesfull, want to make the users happy. If not so, why CM is releasing this to the community? Is it forbidden to say my and many peoples opinion here? If I follow your logic of arguing then we all were not allowed to blame samsung for their bad software and bad support, right? Or specially if something is for free we don't have the right to critisize things? Why? If you create something, you have to count on the fact that people will complain about things. If the people complain with arguments and everyone respect each other that is totally ok in my opinion. If that is too hard for the dev than he should maybe not release his work. So our world is working. Why you argue for a group which doesn't speak to you or here forself? I don't know if you would care about if you were one of those people who wait for years that a bug or improvement is realized which is important for you.
zelendel said:
Next. And to be flatly honest they have no reason to talk to the community. Can't blame them as most have nothing more productive to say then "duh this is busted" why talk to those people when you can talk to people that can offer advise and maybe help salve an issue. Nor are they required to post any update at all.
Devs have the right to post a build in the OP and never post support, leaving all support up to the user's.
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Click to collapse
if a human being thinks like this, he should really start to think about himself. It is a very arogant attitude against other people. If a person thinks "I have no reason to talk to you", then I would think this person is not really a nice and good human. People like you describe, they think that they are better than all other and that is not a good attitude. I totaly agree that it is not helpfull if someone says: "duh this is busted", but I and some other people report bugs, want to help, ALSO if they don't have the ability to develvop something on their own. But the point is the following: The people who are only complaining and say: "duh this is busted" are the people for who CM is making a software. They (CM) should care about them. They are mostly the people who BUY their Oneplus one. Why I don't talk to CM itself? You have written it here exactly: They "have no reason to talk to the community". So I am talking to the people here, the commnunity and looking for all this people who don't do anything because they think they are alone, can't do anything. The goal is to give the people of CM a reason to talk to the commnunity. This is a attempt to change their mind about their style of communication. and make CM11 fully stable.
zelendel said:
It doesn't matter if you can produce the error. They have their rules about posting bug reports. If you don't follow them and it gets closed without it even being looked at well then that's your fault.
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How easy is live, what? If so, then they should close the bugtracker. I was thinking the bugtracker is for the community to HELP CM finding bugs so that THEY can make the product better. This is an opensource project. They make money with the code at the end in form of "CM11S", which is CM11 + closed source apps. And I also understand that they want to make money with their work now. If an opensource project is making benefit in form of money without the need of beta testers because the community finds the bugs they should be HAPPY. But they do ignore it, they think they are above all. You say they: "dont have to talk to the community". Look for omnirom, look for other projects, they are gracefull if someone find a bug, can reporduce it. The devs can fix it. It makes the software better and better. Samsung has to pay people for this. I totally understand if there is a bug which is to repoduce, the dev test for it, can't find it and order the log in addition from the bugreporer. Thats a real reason. But they (CM) dont read this bug. They dont care. Do you want to say that's a good attitude to the users and the community? I don't think so. We can talk with each other.
zelendel said:
If you want stable then stay stock. Or learn to fix it yourself. There is no obligation for anyone to even touch aosp based code. Even Google has most stopped updating those apps and files.
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Sorry, but thats not a real argument. Then we all would be on stock, no one should be allowed to say: "this could be better." That would be a bad world. It is not wrong to expect a stable product. Let it be opensource or propritary. In addition: Not everyone can code something and if so, not everyone has the time to do so. This people have created the maybe most famous custom rom. They SHOULD talk to the people who are using their software, who are all potential customers of their PRODUCT, the oneplus one. The product which makes USE of CM11. So if I am thinking about to buy it, I think about all blame samsung and I think about that CM11 is ignoring user bugreports AND they "don't need to talk to the people". Not a good image, or do your think so? Samsung is not giving 4.4 to the i9300 for example, BUT they make 4.3 better and they make it STABLE and FULL. I don't like samsung for their software and other things, but it is working. But people like CM are blaming them for their support, so me and other people, we have the right to blame CM for THEIR support, or not? Also think about freedom of speech.
What google does is a other thing. Google is also making enough crap and I have also my optionion about it. I also dont install google apps for myself. But google and CM are a different story and thats not the topic of this thread. Also I don't think that it is really nice to say to the people: "Eat what we give you and shut up otherwise you don't have anything.". But you are saying this between the words.
zelendel said:
Now as for you saying device independent issues. The issue here is that one device could be rebooting every ten min but other devices don't do it.
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I dont understand what is the point here? I have clearly written: "Device independend". I didn't writte about random reboots. I totally agree with you that this are a other sort of problem. But if you tap on a "private number" on dialer/phone statistics and will get a FC, and that on M12 and also on the newest nightly, also on 5 different devices, you report that and the mod of the bugtracker dont care about it and simply lock down the bugreport and the dev team totally IGNORE the problem because no log was added (because maybe the reporter dont have a official supported device because they also close the bugreport if this is not?), but they only had to test what the reporter described, then someone can clearly say two things: First thing is that the bug is easily to reproduce and it is device indepently. And second thing is that the CM team or at least the mod of the bugtracker really DONT CARE about the bug existence if he is simply closing down the bug without looking for it or test to repoduce it and THEN, if it is NOT easily to reproduce, order a log from the bugreporter. We are people, we can talk to each other. There is NO NEED to simply close things down, don't community and at the end write down: "This is CM11 final, look at our bugtracker: there are NO BUGS!". Yes, if you don't care about the bugs people report then yes - it is bugfree. Nice way of make something stable. Like chainfire wrote about CM10.2 to the time he left CM Team.
zelendel said:
The only device as a company they need to worry about is the one that sells with their roms. All others are hobby projects and treated as such.
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I agree with you, but have I written something other? I have written nearly the same. CM11 is the basis of CM11S, which is THE SYSTEM THEY SELL on Oneplus one, their PRODUCT.
But in theory if someone, like the creator of "nameless rom". make HW composer working for the i9300 or Teamasek make a camera restart workaround for it and they (CM) DONT CARE about it for example, they know it, people report it. They ignore it. Then something is really wrong here. People like creator of "nameless rom" or Temasek are creating their own custom rom on basis of CM11. They (CM) could easily say: „we have no time, sorry.“ Or: "it is not stable right now, we will wait for it." or simply: „No, we can't do it because....“ Then people totally UNDERSTAND it. But they only say like you said: "We have not to talk to you." nice, nor? Everyone is talking to the people, why they think they don't need that?
And to make it clear here: I am dont fighting against CM, I really like their art of making a rom. I like their software, I want to have and sell my customers a oneplus one if it is out to the global market. I want to make CM better. I dont say look at XXX rom, they make all right, then I could go to a other rom like someone in the thread posted before. I am like this person, but I want to change something and want to help CM so that people dont all leave CM or make their own custom rom. If we would all help us togehter, every device of CM would have a maintainer. The world would be right and nice. But CM makes it to difficult to help. But why? They win, they loose nothing. Let's make them change their mind so that things will get better.
By the way: Oneplus is looking for a other rom for their oneplus one. Also there are articles about: "the flaggschiff killer kills themself". They have problems. CM11/S is not really stable on the oneplus one. Oppo is looking for a other software, CM is working on CM12, it won't make the things better. But CM is building on the oneplus two. It will make it worse. Why all the way begin new and dont make things fully stable? So in theory it would be right to further work on CM11 until it is really stable and also bring the oneplus one on the global market for real and support it some years really. Otherwise they have newest android but it is less stable than software of samsung. If you or anyone else think I am wrong than write that to CM, they can easily write down the facts here in this topic if they care about their users and the most of their further customers. So back to the topic. How can we make things on CM11 better and change CMs mind? chris
XXchrisXX said:
Firstly thanks for your feedback
I dont understand what you want to say. If bugs happen and when is not the content of the topic. I am using linux on my workstation and server itself, everyday. (Linus Torvalds is also talking to the people). I know that bugs can happen and open source drivers and software can have bugs. I do not blame people for this. I do respect their work! I blame people for activly ignoring bugs which are easy to fix (atleast for this people) and activly ignoring bugs in addition to don't communicate why they don't care about this bugs which they could easily fix. This is a human fault. I also have written in my text above that I DO NOT MEAN DEVICE SPECIFIC BUGS. So I don't really understand whats your point here, sorry.
Think its so easy then try it your self. You seem to think anything about this is easy. Until you try to do it yourself you have no room to talk about it being easy.
Yes, in theory they dont have to do anything. But we are all human. We have a moral commitment. Also I think every group who wants to make their custom rom succesfull, want to make the users happy. If not so, why CM is releasing this to the community? Is it forbidden to say my and many peoples opinion here? If I follow your logic of arguing then we all were not allowed to blame samsung for their bad software and bad support, right? Or specially if something is for free we don't have the right to critisize things? Why? If you create something, you have to count on the fact that people will complain about things. If the people complain with arguments and everyone respect each other that is totally ok in my opinion. If that is too hard for the dev than he should maybe not release his work. So our world is working. Why you argue for a group which doesn't speak to you or here forself? I don't know if you would care about if you were one of those people who wait for years that a bug or improvement is realized which is important for you.
You have the right to blame them if you want but then they also have the right not to care. There are many bugs that I have had on AOSP for years. They have not been fixed and I cant fix them so guess what, I dont complain.
if a human being thinks like this, he should really start to think about himself. It is a very arogant attitude against other people. If a person thinks "I have no reason to talk to you", then I would think this person is not really a nice and good human. People like you describe, they think that they are better than all other and that is not a good attitude. I totaly agree that it is not helpfull if someone says: "duh this is busted", but I and some other people report bugs, want to help, ALSO if they don't have the ability to develvop something on their own. But the point is the following: The people who are only complaining and say: "duh this is busted" are the people for who CM is making a software. They (CM) should care about them. They are mostly the people who BUY their Oneplus one. Why I don't talk to CM itself? You have written it here exactly: They "have no reason to talk to the community". So I am talking to the people here, the commnunity and looking for all this people who don't do anything because they think they are alone, can't do anything. The goal is to give the people of CM a reason to talk to the commnunity. This is a attempt to change their mind about their style of communication. and make CM11 fully stable.
A nice and good human? Really?!?! What world do you live in. Alot of the best Devs here are antisocial people. They dont like other people let alone people cant follow simple instructions.
Look People did it themselves. CM used to be active in the community but then people kept doing just what you have stated. Not posting proper bug reports with logs that are needed. (if the dev says post a log with the bug report, this is not an option). The one plus one is a the joke of the Dev world. Most devs already sold theirs and will not go back.
How easy is live, what? If so, then they should close the bugtracker. I was thinking the bugtracker is for the community to HELP CM finding bugs so that THEY can make the product better. This is an opensource project. They make money with the code at the end in form of "CM11S", which is CM11 + closed source apps. And I also understand that they want to make money with their work now. If an opensource project is making benefit in form of money without the need of beta testers because the community finds the bugs they should be HAPPY. But they do ignore it, they think they are above all. You say they: "dont have to talk to the community". Look for omnirom, look for other projects, they are gracefull if someone find a bug, can reporduce it. The devs can fix it. It makes the software better and better. Samsung has to pay people for this. I totally understand if there is a bug which is to repoduce, the dev test for it, can't find it and order the log in addition from the bugreporer. Thats a real reason. But they (CM) dont read this bug. They dont care. Do you want to say that's a good attitude to the users and the community? I don't think so. We can talk with each other.
Yes it is. As long as people follow the proper bug reporting steps. Yeah and if you report some bugs to many devs without the proper logs they will ignore you as well. Many devs are moving over to the bug tracker just like CM and will require the same logs. This is troubleshooting 101. If you cant even get a log then you should rethink using custom roms.
Sorry, but thats not a real argument. Then we all would be on stock, no one should be allowed to say: "this could be better." That would be a bad world. It is not wrong to expect a stable product. Let it be opensource or propritary. In addition: Not everyone can code something and if so, not everyone has the time to do so. This people have created the maybe most famous custom rom. They SHOULD talk to the people who are using their software, who are all potential customers of their PRODUCT, the oneplus one. The product which makes USE of CM11. So if I am thinking about to buy it, I think about all blame samsung and I think about that CM11 is ignoring user bugreports AND they "don't need to talk to the people". Not a good image, or do your think so? Samsung is not giving 4.4 to the i9300 for example, BUT they make 4.3 better and they make it STABLE and FULL. I don't like samsung for their software and other things, but it is working. But people like CM are blaming them for their support, so me and other people, we have the right to blame CM for THEIR support, or not? Also think about freedom of speech.
Ill be honest and this is the thought with alot of Devs. Most normal users SHOULD stay on stock. Saying Samsung is stable is too funny. Most Devs have left those devices all together as well. Once again you dont post the proper and requested logs with the bug reprot expect to be ignored. As for freedom of speech Refer to the link below. Your on a private site. The right doenst apply.
What google does is a other thing. Google is also making enough crap and I have also my optionion about it. I also dont install google apps for myself. But google and CM are a different story and thats not the topic of this thread. Also I don't think that it is really nice to say to the people: "Eat what we give you and shut up otherwise you don't have anything.". But you are saying this between the words.
If your not part of the solution then your part of the problem. And that is with proper bug reports and logs.
I dont understand what is the point here? I have clearly written: "Device independend". I didn't writte about random reboots. I totally agree with you that this are a other sort of problem. But if you tap on a "private number" on dialer/phone statistics and will get a FC, and that on M12 and also on the newest nightly, also on 5 different devices, you report that and the mod of the bugtracker dont care about it and simply lock down the bugreport and the dev team totally IGNORE the problem because no log was added (because maybe the reporter dont have a official supported device because they also close the bugreport if this is not?), but they only had to test what the reporter described, then someone can clearly say two things: First thing is that the bug is easily to reproduce and it is device indepently. And second thing is that the CM team or at least the mod of the bugtracker really DONT CARE about the bug existence if he is simply closing down the bug without looking for it or test to repoduce it and THEN, if it is NOT easily to reproduce, order a log from the bugreporter. We are people, we can talk to each other. There is NO NEED to simply close things down, don't community and at the end write down: "This is CM11 final, look at our bugtracker: there are NO BUGS!". Yes, if you don't care about the bugs people report then yes - it is bugfree. Nice way of make something stable. Like chainfire wrote about CM10.2 to the time he left CM Team.
If the device is not supported then they shouldnt be posting a report at all. Do you have any idea how long it would take to "test" each bug report? The log is much faster and more useful. To many people are installing stupid stuff like xposed that randomly causes code crashs. This is where the logs will show this. If it is bug free on their devices then they can call it bug free. In the end it is all how it runs on their devices.
I agree with you, but have I written something other? I have written nearly the same. CM11 is the basis of CM11S, which is THE SYSTEM THEY SELL on Oneplus one, their PRODUCT.
But in theory if someone, like the creator of "nameless rom". make HW composer working for the i9300 or Teamasek make a camera restart workaround for it and they (CM) DONT CARE about it for example, they know it, people report it. They ignore it. Then something is really wrong here. People like creator of "nameless rom" or Temasek are creating their own custom rom on basis of CM11. They (CM) could easily say: „we have no time, sorry.“ Or: "it is not stable right now, we will wait for it." or simply: „No, we can't do it because....“ Then people totally UNDERSTAND it. But they only say like you said: "We have not to talk to you." nice, nor? Everyone is talking to the people, why they think they don't need that?
If they are basing their rom off of CM then they accept it. People did it themselves. As already stated. You really must be new to this.
And to make it clear here: I am dont fighting against CM, I really like their art of making a rom. I like their software, I want to have and sell my customers a oneplus one if it is out to the global market. I want to make CM better. I dont say look at XXX rom, they make all right, then I could go to a other rom like someone in the thread posted before. I am like this person, but I want to change something and want to help CM so that people dont all leave CM or make their own custom rom. If we would all help us togehter, every device of CM would have a maintainer. The world would be right and nice. But CM makes it to difficult to help. But why? They win, they loose nothing. Let's make them change their mind so that things will get better.
To be honest alot of people couldnt careless about CM. Any real team uses aosp as a base and not CM. This is due to CM changing the base AOSP code to fit what they think android should be. To me it sounds like you have a device that was dropped by the team and are now mad about it.
By the way: Oneplus is looking for a other rom for their oneplus one. Also there are articles about: "the flaggschiff killer kills themself". They have problems. CM11/S is not really stable on the oneplus one. Oppo is looking for a other software, CM is working on CM12, it won't make the things better. But CM is building on the oneplus two. It will make it worse. Why all the way begin new and dont make things fully stable? So in theory it would be right to further work on CM11 until it is really stable and also bring the oneplus one on the global market for real and support it some years really. Otherwise they have newest android but it is less stable than software of samsung. If you or anyone else think I am wrong than write that to CM, they can easily write down the facts here in this topic if they care about their users and the most of their further customers. So back to the topic. How can we make things on CM11 better and change CMs mind? chris
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Click to collapse
Once again CM has not posted here in years. AOSP will never be completely stable. Deal with it. and a news flash the oneplusone 2 will not have CM. They have already signed a contract exclusive in some places with another company.
Now to end this. Here is a link. Have a good read.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=16682226&postcount=2441
Ok so I've read the cluster that is your post @XXchrisXX and I have to say a few things
First off, I'm probably the last person you would ever see saying anything remotely nice about CM but what's right is right....
1. There is no moral commitment or obligation or ANYTHING that CM (the open source side of things) has to follow. You are getting a FREE product. In exchange your feedback may or may not be useful to the developers and device maintainers. You signed no contract. You didn't agree to anything with CyanogenMod or any of it's developers or maintainers. XDA-Developers is and always has been a AT-YOUR-OWN-RISK type of site.
As stated above, you can stick with the stock ROM from the OEM if you want stability and some kind of warranty.
2. There are two different sides of CM. There is the open source side which is what you're griping about and then there's the company, CM Inc.
One is run by volunteers and hundreds of contributors (Open Source side) and the other one is run by employees who are under contract (CM Inc). Don't confuse the two and think that you can hold the open source side to the same things you hold the company to.
Do many employees from CM Inc. contribute to the Open Source side? Yes, but that is a hobby. You want a warranty and someone to yell at for not fixing bugs? Go buy a One Plus One and get you a warranty, simple as that!
3. Who are you to tell them (the Open Source side of CM) what they can and can't do? You should be lucky that your device is even supported by CM or any AOSP based custom ROM.
You talk about Samsung and other OEMs but what you fail to realize is that most OEMs give you a one and done. They give you kitkat and that's it.........they TOO move on to bigger and better things.
Don't be foolish here and think that your device that's 3 years old is going to run KitKat like a champ. You say you "understand" about open source drivers but yet continue to argue your pointless cluster because you think that CM (the open source side) should behave like the company.
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND! If you did, you would of never made this post and thank your lucky stars that your device even got on CM's radar for support.
Again, I know CM inc has done some messed up things in the past and are arguably run by a circus but what I hate more then them is ungrateful people like yourself.
Stop while you're ahead @XXchrisXX
What... the... fk...
Seriously... It's obvious you've violated XDA's "search before posting" rules.
Now, you've given enough information that you're obviously a haxxinos4 user. (You mention N7000 so probably a 4210, but I sort of recall seeing something indicating you might have a 4412 device...)
The only devices that actually have received benefits from Cyngn corporate are their "Cyanogen OS" devices. Oppo N1 and OnePlus One. Those are the two devices where Cyngn corporate staff have NDAs signed with the OEM and Qualcomm (and other suppliers) to fully support every piece of hardware within the device. Now, if your complaint is about those devices (which Cyngn HAS ****ed up too), you have a right to complain. But to be honest, you'll find little sympathy here since the Cyngn corporate guys and XDA don't really get along.
If you're a Haxxinos4 user, and actually PAID ATTENTION, you'd know that Samsung has continually bent the community over and ****ed them time and time again. (Especially in 2012, with the Superbrick fiasco and their broken promises at BABBQ 2012). You'd also know that basically everyone that USED to be a Haxxinos4 maintainer either retired from Android development or left CM after the Focal relicensing disaster. (And even after moving to Omni, Haxxinos4 is pretty much dead to most of us...)
So Mazda is right... While he (nor I) have any love for Cyngn (Kondick has blocked me on G+ for calling him out on various things back during the Focal relicensing fiasco - and I used to be the CM maintainer for multiple Haxxinos4 devices and the Oppo Find5)... Your post just reeks of "typical ungrateful user who can't even search to find the basic backstory of their device"...
Funny thing: Oppo N1 was Cyngn's first official device. Its predecessor, the Find 5, was entirely maintained by people who left CM to found Omni after the Focal relicensing fiasco. All of those people were former Haxxinos4 maintainers who were sick and tired of Samsung's bull**** already.
@XXchrisXX wow, you ungrateful twerp. If you don't like it, try another ROM. I'm anti CM after the things the company side did to the community, but they don't deserve this.
There are other ROMs that are more stable and have more features. Try those. Look at liquid smooth, omni, Dirty Unicorns... Way more options than just CM. But if you go to those Roms with this type of attitude expect zero support.
mazwoz said:
@XXchrisXX wow, you ungrateful twerp. If you don't like it, try another ROM. I'm anti CM after the things the company side did to the community, but they don't deserve this.
There are other ROMs that are more stable and have more features. Try those. Look at liquid smooth, omni, Dirty Unicorns... Way more options than just CM. But if you go to those Roms with this type of attitude expect zero support.
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Sorry to sound like a moron from left field, but what did CM do to the community? I've been out of the loop.
Saint Isaiah said:
Sorry to sound like a moron from left field, but what did CM do to the community? I've been out of the loop.
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They took the work of hundreds, forced people to relicense their work so that CM owned it, and then made millions on some contracts when they became a company. None of that money went to the people who spent years working on cm and helping them be what they are. It went to a few key people, and that's it. This people signed contracts with cm inc. Since then they have poached the lead developers from other ROMs to work with them, eliminating any possible competition.
mazwoz said:
They took the work of hundreds, forced people to relicense their work so that CM owned it, and then made millions on some contracts when they became a company. None of that money went to the people who spent years working on cm and helping them be what they are. It went to a few key people, and that's it. This people signed contracts with cm inc. Since then they have poached the lead developers from other ROMs to work with them, eliminating any possible competition.
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Wow that's super ****ty! I'm guessing this is related to the work they did with the OnePlus One phone? Either way, thanks for the info.
Saint Isaiah said:
Sorry to sound like a moron from left field, but what did CM do to the community? I've been out of the loop.
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Saint Isaiah said:
Wow that's super ****ty! I'm guessing this is related to the work they did with the OnePlus One phone? Either way, thanks for the info.
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Yes and no, they did all of this before the OnePlus. The first CM phone was the Oppo N1, that contact came about a few months after this went down. Omni ROM was founded because of this.
Saint Isaiah said:
Sorry to sound like a moron from left field, but what did CM do to the community? I've been out of the loop.
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I can't dig up a direct link currently, but do a search for "Focal relicensing"
I think there's a link to Guillaume's post on the issue from the CM wikipedia page, but I'm not sure.
Entropy512 said:
I can't dig up a direct link currently, but do a search for "Focal relicensing"
I think there's a link to Guillaume's post on the issue from the CM wikipedia page, but I'm not sure.
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2451752
To the OP @XXchrisXX or is it @Noteguy? I am so confused. One of you has 1 post, the other one of you has 4 (all of them in here). Would the real OP PLEASE STAND UP????
That being said, it's quite obvious that you have nothing to offer this community except for whinging - and if you were the only one doing that on XDA then I would say the community should take note and listen to what you have to say. BUT - seeing as you're just another whiny user I think we can all, CM included, just ignore you.
I can't say anything more than what @Entropy512 and @Mazda has already said. You must be very young, because you seriously remind me of my kids sometimes. Get stuff for free, but still complain because its not 100% to your liking. Not sure about Germany, but here we call that ungrateful. Long ago I was not satisfied with the lack of development for my aging device, instead of calling out developers that work, have a family and spend what little free time they have giving me free stuff, I learned to develop myself as to not bother them. Its not plug and play. Most do this for themselves and share. Ranting will only cause them not to share. If you want to kill support for your device faster than the hurdles that are already present with trying to piece together the little bits of open source code we can use, then your on the right track. If you want continued support then sometimes a simple Thank you works wonders. Nobody is making a living off of this (open source side at least). Donations are nice, but I know first hand that both @Mazda and I have on certain occasions returned donations to users. We don't do it because of the money, we do it because its fun. Don't take the fun out of it is all I'm saying. Be grateful that you aren't stuck on OE jellybean or less software. You owe/need the development community more than the developers do, the sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be.
Hi.
What kind of power we can have if we will make petition to Samsung software/developement team to do some updates of Android to our phone?
How many users are here that have this awesome mobile?
I always think is good idea to try than moan...
I e-mailed Yotaphone and asked if they would consider making a qwerty slider....
I think it would be beneficial if we all did the same.
It is not my intention, to find new device.
I am fed up going for new.
Old is good enough many times.
Our mobile is enough for emails, www etc. but the only downside is software.
It's not going to happen. Both the carrier (T-Mobile) and Samsung would need to agree that it's worth spending a lot of money to give this phone an upgrade. Given that both companies want you to buy a new phone every 5 minutes, neither of them want people to be satisfied with their old phone. And speaking of old, this phone is almost 3 years old and has a small user base. There are hundreds of more popular phones released between then and now which haven't seen updates, so no one's going to pay much attention to ours. The only way to get updates is to make them ourselves.
If we don't try - we will never know for sure.
How many registered users are in Relay section, can anybody check?
Check in
I am in business!
Here!
Sent from my SGH-T699 using XDA Free mobile app
I'm still using mine, but it's really a secondary phone at this point. Given that the flex cable is this phone's Achilles heel, I don't slide the keyboard out very often, either.
lol. How about a few of you...
a) learn to code and help move the 5.x support forward,
b) donate a phone to a dev, since the two primary developers no longer OWN a relay (and both have mentioned that they would be willing to work on it if somebody donated a phone).
Sign up at freenode/#apexqtmo
doitright said:
lol. How about a few of you...
a) learn to code and help move the 5.x support forward,
b) donate a phone to a dev, since the two primary developers no longer OWN a relay (and both have mentioned that they would be willing to work on it if somebody donated a phone).
Sign up at freenode/#apexqtmo
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I would love to learn how to code but no one really has time to teach and i know there are plenty of guides but I'm afraid I'll kill my phone. I've already managed to kill my usb port, not from coding attempts, but nonetheless inoperable. As for donating, the relay is my only working t mobile phone so I don't want to give it up. I would, however would pitch in on one. From what I've seen they go for about 100 or so. I would like to be part of the solution in any way I can.
Another Relay user here...
Since this is one of the last good QWERTY phones around, figured it was time to stop just lurking this forum and sign up lol. I'd also be willing to test any new 5.x ROMs built, since I'll have an alternate phone in a couple of days that I can fall back to if I break this one.
I have a phone and I can code, however I need somebody who give me clue or some direction to follow. I've never coded for hardware, only business apps.
This one is not gonna be cheap, but if it runs android it will be amazing:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/07/02/blackberry-venice-slider-leak/
Wow! Extremely cool, man! Thanks for the info
Ok so basically I want to get this off my chest because this really bothers me and I strongly believe not all points will be accepted or seen as I do. Maybe some of you have heard of the "AOSiP experiment". If not read it here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/redmi-note-5-pro/development/rom-aosp-pie-t3829052/page125 last post thread is locked.
So where do we start? I've been here around some time (even before I registered I lurked around). To the people saying xda is full of troll lately and back than it was way better. No it wasn't. Trolls and ret*rds have been around since xda started the only thing really changed is there are telegram groups for every thing (why tho?) where they troll and harass in real time. The only rule I found about xda is : the cheaper the phone the ****t*er the community. (this might be a point you don't agree on). I strive to improve the community because I am a part of it. I try to be helpful when needed point to already asked question and provide logs. And really I didn't mind fight the trolls.
But now I have to fight troll users AND troll "devs"? Troll "devs", lul never thought of using this phrase but boi here we are. I get it you are tired of all the pubg and give me SOT spammers. But why don't you just make a private telegram group for the devs? What hurts me of the most personally is that the "devs", to prove a point, said: "we gonna f*ck over our normal userbase who appreciate your works btw "(or atleast did). So because you got trolled, you trolled back. Only it missed the target. The trolls won and it's no victory to let a mod (not even akhil himself) post that ridiculously statement and close the thread so there won't be any discussion.
Also why didn't you make up a kernel? Why do you take the name of a dev who did nothing to you and drag him with you. Do you know what messages @srfarias is getting now because you thought: "lul lets take his kernel". Or does your own standards don't apply to yourself? "Trolling / harassment is bad as long as its against us? Trolling another dude is fine, as long as we don't know him?" Don't believe me? Read it here https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=78978664&postcount=112
Don't get me worn the whole maintainer team of AOSIP did great work! But on a human level they are currently as low as it can get. I personally don't give a f*ck if they stay away because this kind of devs is what's I believe makes up a toxic community. (another controversial point I guess)
Yes this is mainly a rant and maybe I'm way to offended by the devs but I really have to take this of my chest.
Thank to all the devs working on android and not playing games with their user base. And sorry @srfarias for all the sh*t you are getting right now.
Have a nice day.
Sir what's going on?
I find it a bit weird as well that they care so much about what a few people say. They completely forget about all the people who don't say anything because they have no issues at all...
Turning this theme around is trolling. Enough, please. Let's stop criticizing as users or developer and start all over again to bring out the best in us. The developers who only sporten their work and the users only our support and thanks. Enough please
Exactly that! I completely agree to all points... I bought the device 6 months back just because I saw huge development and I was completely happy with all the alternatives out there. J really liked akhils' work with Derp and never had an issue... Seeing the way now the device taking completely getting abandoned from most of the major projects going on, which also helped smaller projects to get a more polished work for our devices, just because some majority of users can't even follow the instructions of flashing or even understand what they are talking about most of the times is really disappointing.
There is always a better alternative to keep the true userbase "happy" with your work.
Everybody could easily not care about the troll's, just annouce in XDA - if they still wanted - keep a closed forum and just release personal work. Get their feedback through GitHub or any other issue tracking platform with strict bug report "protocol" and ignore all of those "members" who are unable to provide useful feedback. But, all we got now is that we got trolled by those who don't even care to try all the steps in order to provide useful feedback...
Anyways, I still appreciate the work done in Whyred and for me the best I have to do is to move to another device which potentially has a better community and devs that knows how to not care about the trolls. as most of the devs should know that 9/10 times the fault isn't in the code but in the user... Especially when we are talking about ROM/kernel performance in games for example. In telegram forum I even saw a user asking if it was possible to update his chipset form sd660 to sd845 through kernel update. Should we even care to explain to any user with this attitude? This type is not even making a research about what he is tweaking on his device and the potential damages he could get by those tweaks...
i don't own this device, but someone linked me this post for some reason.
All i can say is, i have to agree on most points in the OP.
have a nice day all
I am really Sad for this situation, I don't even own the device... but oof.... Good luck guys.
Using other devs name-for-a-project just to f'ck around/troll the users is as low as it gets.
Oh, here is my very unpopular opinion: I have had nothing but trouble with AOSiP(both oreo and pie builds). I thought it was only on my side, cuz everybody shared how good and awesome and perfect AOSiP was. Ugh, the brutal battery drains I had with AOSiP and Derp...
Holy sh't, when I read what happened yesterday, I thought I was in the wrong hecking forum and not XDA. I am glad that AOSiP is gone at this point.
Trolls should be punished, all of them, no matter who they are and what work they have done! If the main problem is trolling, make the whole forum closed behind a sub and stop whining about people being trolls. Where the f'ck have you lived until now?! On another planet? Tough luck, humans have been trolling since forever. People have been illiterate since forever. They don't care to learn, they just consume! But... When you're a dev and you're supposed to be smarter then the bunch of trolls, yet you fall on the trolls' level, you lost that one, hard!
Also, I remember srfarias from before. He has always done his best and I was surprised he started working on this device! He was never malicious! Keep it up, srfarias!
He's not in a ****, everyone here (only with brain) already knows what just happened, so it shouldn't be a problem at all, Srfarias isn't a well known (yet) on RN5 community since it was his first (and perfect) work, that's why he got attacked and to be fair that's normal and expected especially from this community, if he was a known here and developing ROMs for RN5 like the others i can imagine a totally different reaction from the same who attacked him, but since he's not known here (again, yet) then no problem, **** his rights and **** his time that he spent on this great kernel, no wonder, this is the nature of people.
Go to any ROM's topic now and see the begging, please dev don't leave us, you're the best dev, no such issue here don't report any issue you can hurt the dev, please continue your awesome work dev, will you continue this project dev?....etc.
God bless you Srfarias with this community and have fun (i doubt )
Just a personal consideration: it's sad to see how a very restricted group of people can destroy a modding community.
I can agree with you but also with the devs.
Spammers, trolls, pubg extreme players, is that really important? I have no skills about building ROMs or kernels and i'll never try to do this but, why we can't just ignore this kind of people? Why all users need to lose a good ROM (i've installed AOSiP once, and i've loved it) for those spammers?
I really hope to see AOSiP team again here in our subforum, i haven't followed this question and this is just a personal thing, but it's nice to see people on this argument.
(Sorry for my english, i have no skills on languages too )
Totally man..these devs act so mature and stuff still do retarded stuff and blame the trolls (what was the whole point of telegram group?)
.
I'm gonna give slow claps to the devs who did this experiment.
Good job you won.
.
And when it comes to this case it's not the trolls who are spreading the cancer its the...you know who.
.
SRF (the dev of pureCaf) is such a humble guy and these guys HAD to F him up.
.
Anyways I'm glad that you (the ones that did this experiment) have stopped developing ?.
We have many humble and intelligent devs who dont do stupid stuff and blame it on trolls and don't ruin other devs life.
.
Peace.
I would agree with OP on some points, including that the experiment in question was debatable because it "contained" someone's work and it had directly impacted him.
But on another note, the experiment of similar sort was desperately needed to prove a point, which many people seem to have missed.
It was not aimed at PureCAF dev and his kernel per se, it was aimed at Whyred users of different profiles who have couple of things in common - disrespect, 0 knowledge, impatience and just bad manners in summary. I have been pissed of numerous times here because I try to add something useful to disscussion and development in a way, to help other users and devs, and then comes the horde of 10 users after my post with the exact same question which I (or anyone else) have answered, not to mention that there were numerous idiotic feature requests and useless bug reports.
One thing you have to remember, the ones who have issues will always be more vocal than those who don't. We all give feedback in threads of course, but you don't suddenly jump in PM to say hey great work, everything works, keep it up, where as those badly mannered people will spam PM's if something doesn't get fixed or even their request doesn't get considered, and those people will turn to disrespect, which has been shown here frequently.
The experiment was just a tip of the iceberg, because this kind of harassment goes way way back, and with presence of Telegram as an instant messaging app, you as a known dev are fuc*ed up.
The placebo effect, which is a powerful thing sometimes, has once again proved how many clueless people are present in this forums, and how much they have an impact on community nowadays.
I have used AOSiP + Derp for a long time, and my device has performed great with that combo since June last year, but others had issues, and that's expected as although our devices are basically the same, not all electronic devices are created equal.
And have to add, I have previously used 3 flagship devices from Samsung (older ones) and Sony and no, the community there wasn't even close to this.
Nah..the point of the experiment is great, a lil bit controvery move but I agree with them.
But I don't like some part of their last statement that seems attacking purecaf dev, as far as I know srf never talk bad about them, It is some users and adi (bootlegger dev) who mock derp because rom devs change to purecaf, but once again afaik srf never do that.
In the end everyone react very poorly in this situation, looking for someone to blame in this situation is not a solution.
We (user and dev) must respect each other, mocking other dev is never good, even it is only a joke.
Sir i think derp kernel mad because everyone changing from him
alexmason90 said:
Sir i think derp kernel mad because everyone changing from him
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Nah, it was much more than that, it pre-dates even this situation with PureCAF.
Guys, you'll need to see the wider picture, PureCAF kernel was not the problem, it was just the last straw. The problem lies within the community, in the nagging users themselves and the pressure they have been putting on devs.
I was expecting something similiar, I'm even surprised that it took this long, however the handling of the situation could have been better, I admit.
It's just some little kids fight, almost funny to watch actually. Ambitious and jealous people are like this, they have a tense nature.
Also, I don't believe XDA management is compotent enough. Even the website is using an outdated design and broken some parts.
Anyway, this was surely interesting to watch.
I've not read every single post, but none the less:
I've been with XDA since March of 2011. I lurked at least a year or so before that. I joined with my first smartphone ever, the HTC Desire. With every smartphone i've owned since, i was active in their respective forums. And from my personal (non scientific) feelings, the XDA community has been getting progressively "worse". I fondly remember the days where we spend days and weeks in threads talking about how to get android 4 to boot on hopefully outdated Hardware. Minor achievements where shared, several people where collectively working on something while having a nice and technical discussion. I loved coming here to hang out with the geeks and talk about the things i enjoy most.
But lately, i've just not bothered. It might be because it's my first Xiaomi, and the community is different from Samsung or HTC. I have not logged in in over 4 weeks and after coming back today i have not found a single thread that's actually usefull. Sure, Rom Releases are nice, but it feels a lot like Linux Distributions. All the same stuff with a different wallpaper and name on it. I won't **** on anyone actually putting his work out here. I highly appreciate that. But i feel the Gold Rush of Android development is done. And now here we are, complaining about what devs should and shouldn't do, and making the 100th thread about what rom has the best batterylife. I feel like most people that come here don't even care to do the bare minimum of research. That's frustrating. This used to be a place for people who enjoyed mobile devices and hacking on them as a hobby. Not a customer support forum for people not getting 20 hours of Screen on Time.
Yes, releasing a ROM with advertised changes you didn't make, and in the process using a devs name for work he didn't do is not a nice move. I can see where they are coming from and why they did what they did. It used to be a major offense against the devs to even ask for Features or ETAs. It was just not tolerated basically. We are basically doing open source development here. Want something done? Well bad luck. Do it yourself or wait for someone to do it. You are not paying anyone to do the work. Be greatfull for what our devs do and stop asking for more. If you want more, or faster, do it yourself.
I personally don't get anything of value out of XDA anymore. I've always been here to be part of the process. To be at the forefront of what's possible in mobile tech. I wanted experimental stuff and see things break for the sake of it. I enjoyed talking to devs about the process and getting insight into what's happening behind the scenes. I never came to XDA for the "best battery backup rom" out there. This is a community of interested people. Not a customer Support forum.
@domsch1988
it's not your personal feelings, it's the true fact
I think all the old users here feel the same, I've learnt alooooooooot from this community and I'm really grateful to everyone I've got something from him but now everything is really weird!
And i really liked this "Rom Releases are nice, but it feels a lot like Linux Distributions. All the same stuff with a different wallpaper and name on it" , it's like we are in Olympics, tons of ROMS and sharing the same bugs and sometimes full of bugs like the earlier releases of every android pie ROM here once Pie was out, why everyone was in a hurry to give a full of bugs ROM? glory or first Pie ROM maybe? instead of squashing the bugs and giving 3 or 4 perfect ROMS every day a new ROM with the same ****, and it's not only that, half of the ROMS now have 3 versions, the official, the modded or unofficial one and the one on telegram (the new disaster on XDA) WTF? and 90% of the developers here are not responding to any inquiries, yeah, i can clearly notice that.
Why they aren't working together and give their best instead of this mess if they really want to serve this community? I've seen many users here complain that they are confused and don't know which is better or with less bugs or will get regular updates.....etc.
About (the majority) on this community i think there's no need to talk since i really get bored and nothing will ever change here, sad but true.
And finally a new dev came here and gave us a prefect kernel and now he is involved without making any mistake, his crime is that he refused to see his work is being used from the others and without even asking or mentioning him, LOL!
Everything is getting worse here, and unfortunately from all not only the users.
Btw, Thanks for this post :good:
One quick reply: the general decline in the community is not specific for XDA, it is a general phenomena concerning the internet. In the beginning mostly the geeks and nerds used the internet. Now everyone is literally always online. Of course this includes all the idiots and a...holes, too.
And because most people think that nobody knows who they are while posting on the internet, civility went down the drain, too.
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Gandhi70 said:
One quick reply: the general decline in the community is not specific for XDA, it is a general phenomena concerning the internet. In the beginning mostly the geeks and nerds used the internet. Now everyone is literally always online. Of course this includes all the idiots and a...holes, too.
And because most people think that nobody knows who they are while posting on the internet, civility went down the drain, too.
Gesendet von meinem MI PAD 4 PLUS mit Tapatalk
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Since we are in a general talk topic I just want to say that this is the best and the KISS explanation ever given in forum. This really small paragraph you wrote can easily explain on it's own what happened to all technical communities!!!