Related
Watch the video (In case you havent seen it yet!). In it Matias Duarte explains how the Android team is beginning to try and create a cohesive and unified atmosphere with the os at the most basic levels. I for one, am absolutely thrilled to see that they are finally going to be paying attention to design and aesthetics. Usability of the platform can also benefit from this immensely.
I am also tired of people saying "ICS isnt all that special". It really doesnt matter how "special" you think it should be. What matters is that its the next iteration of the os. We all want to have our devices updated and current. So wanting this on our devices has less to do with design in this sense, and a lot more to do with jumping on the wagon of unification. I would greatly prefer beautiful apps and ease of use over anything Gingerbread has offered us so far. Now I already know that a lot of the visual benefits of ICS come mainly from theming and such, but its profoundly more exciting when the theming itself is coming from the creators of Android and not some hard-to-find source in the app market.
Lastly, I would appreciate it if you guys could give your thoughts on this. Are you excited to see the new direction the Android team along with Matias, are going in? Do you feel that they are focusing on some rather important points in the software (usability, framework, aesthetics) or not? And of course please keep the flaming and crude/rude comments to yourselves. Thanks all for listening to my rant.
~~Vince
Heres the new design guidelines site they have up.
tazbo28 said:
Watch the video (In case you havent seen it yet!). In it Matias Duarte explains how the Android team is beginning to try and create a cohesive and unified atmosphere with the os at the most basic levels. I for one, am absolutely thrilled to see that they are finally going to be paying attention to design and aesthetics. Usability of the platform can also benefit from this immensely.
I am also tired of people saying "ICS isnt all that special". It really doesnt matter how "special" you think it should be. What matters is that its the next iteration of the os. We all want to have our devices updated and current. So wanting this on our devices has less to do with design in this sense, and a lot more to do with jumping on the wagon of unification. I would greatly prefer beautiful apps and ease of use over anything Gingerbread has offered us so far. Now I already know that a lot of the visual benefits of ICS come mainly from theming and such, but its profoundly more exciting when the theming itself is coming from the creators of Android and not some hard-to-find source in the app market.
Lastly, I would appreciate it if you guys could give your thoughts on this. Are you excited to see the new direction the Android team along with Matias, are going in? Do you feel that they are focusing on some rather important points in the software (usability, framework, aesthetics) or not? And of course please keep the flaming and crude/rude comments to yourselves. Thanks all for listening to my rant.
~~Vince
Heres the new design guidelines site they have up.
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Click to collapse
I can't deny that I would be overly excited if ICS came to this device, haha.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using xda premium
Kevinr678 said:
I can't deny that I would be overly excited if ICS came to this device, haha.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
+1 internets I totally agree!
As nice as ICS's upgrade would be...it's not in Sammy's or AT&T interest
Sammy want's device sales and AT&T wants new/renewed contracts. By limiting ICS to 2012 devices, it provides incentive for 2010/2011 device owners to pony up for the new hotness with the new software.
Now before anyone wants to say, "WAIT WAIT, Apple..." save it. We're not talking about Apple here. Sammy is the OEM and they control what happens for the product line.
Sure you can wait for a dev to 'hopefully' get around to releasing an ICS port and yeah, it may be decent. That's your choice.
My upgrade plans begin in 2013 when ICS should have a few months in the wild and become more mature. By then all my smartphones will be eligible for upgrade discounts. I have no issue with AT&T's service as they allow me to keep my grandfathered unlimited data plan.
I'd rather have ICS when it's grown up and not so much a baby. Also, fully functional on my device too would be nice.
Interviewer is huge fan of Apple I can see
The main reason i want ics is so i can impress my friends lol. It also just has features that i just like better. Im not going to die without it, but it would be nice with it. Im sorry guys who have to wait for their contract, both my parents have their upgrades up and both are fine if they get my infuse, and i get the note.
durvall said:
Interviewer is huge fan of Apple I can see
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Joshua Topolsky! My man! He was the senior editor at Engadget.com before leaving to start theverge.com. He actually left his Apple iPhone after the 3gs I think. He soon thereafter bought a Nexus One. Which I think he still uses to this day. And touts it every chance he gets. He does however praise apple for incitefull design and craftsmanship. I mean he is in a business (tech blogging) that is notorious for praising the behemoth company(not that this is a good thing) But trust you me when I say he isn't afraid to drop the hammer on Apple when he voices his gripes over their products. I would venture to say that most blogging sites require their employees to work on Macbooks now though. It seems to me that they would rather choose a totalitarian system like the Macs because they are less prone to buginess and viruses. And when your in an industry that thrives off of having secure data on close deadlines and less vulnerabilities, Macs (imo) just do it better. I dont use a mac, never have, I have had an Iphone 3g one time for a while. But will probably never go back. Unless I become rich or something. You do have to admire their design principles though both physically and software wise. When you compare Apple's aesthetics to Androids up till now, its just no-contest which is more cohesive and well thought out.
durvall said:
Interviewer is huge fan of Apple I can see
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Click to collapse
So is Samsung.
Sent from my SGH-I897
funny thing is I used to frequent a guitar forum and a well known member was a Samsung senior cdma systems engineer and his phone was an iPhone. that was before cdma iPhones existed so he was obviously on att which is big in texas. he didn't boast about apple too much nor Samsung, basically the only things I remember that stood out was he refuted the idea that the apple products have Good audio. said the newer apple products are not as good as the older ones and suffered from clipping (overdrive basically) and boasted the galaxy s in that area. but when it came down to it he was a fan of ios for the accessories and high quality audio software (garage band for the ipad) and got an ipad 2.
i always have an upgrade....(4 lines=leverage) .. but i will not purchase another phone until ICS is available, especially because of updates. i want the note..but if no ics pre-installed..i aint buying.. i almost went to verizon for the nexus but they dont have good coverage where i travel
ICS should be important to everyone. Even if only for the principle of it.
Sent from my SGH-I897
Anyone currently working on ics?
Sent from my SGH-I997 using XDA App
dustinhayes93 said:
Anyone currently working on ics?
Sent from my SGH-I997 using XDA App
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yeah but they haven't posted progress so its anyone's guess as to what issues they are having. remember the people working on it have real lives and are doing it as a hobby. so i don't think anyone is working on it full time.
Yea of course. Its great to know it is being worked on. Anything is better than nothing!
Sent from my SGH-I997 using XDA App
LinuxBozo still around? I had some questions for him..
Sent from my SGH-I997 using Tapatalk
theROMinator said:
LinuxBozo still around? I had some questions for him..
Sent from my SGH-I997 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
he drops in to a thread every once in a while especially the "all the devs jumped" threads. he was never that big on posting. I dunno if he answers pm's.
Dani897 said:
he drops in to a thread every once in a while especially the "all the devs jumped" threads. he was never that big on posting. I dunno if he answers pm's.
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Yes, he does. I've spoke with him before. I was just hoping he hadn't jumped ship.
Sent from my SGH-I997 using Tapatalk
theROMinator said:
Yes, he does. I've spoke with him before. I was just hoping he hadn't jumped ship.
Sent from my SGH-I997 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
I don't think so. I know at one time he said he didn't like change.... whether he'll post work after his ics thread got trolled on I don't know.
theROMinator said:
Yes, he does. I've spoke with him before. I was just hoping he hadn't jumped ship.
Sent from my SGH-I997 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
He will probably answer in this thread lol but he is. One of the leads with the infuse cm7 team. He has been busy with other stuff though (carpantry). He is around. Ics will come someday hopefully...
even though some people will drop their Infuse's this Spring, Im really hoping some devs will still try to bring over ICS for the people who want to feel out the year on devices. I wish I wasnt so disorganized, otherwise i might actually have the capacity to learn how to develop. =/
<this page left intentionally blank>
*SIGHS*
Meanie face... *pouts in corner*
d**k <----oo
Sent from my GT-P6210 using xda premium
This has to be the most immature thing I've seen here in a while. Like people have said, it wasnt funny the first time.
Gary, you have a penchant for bragging about being some great dev, professionally and otherwise, so start acting like it. These types of threads dont help, and add nothing to the discourse. It just makes you look worse.
robyr said:
This has to be the most immature thing I've seen here in a while.
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Which part of this is immature? The part where I made sure that the sarcasm was in the first dozen characters of the message body - so that a mouse hover over the subject in the topic list would reveal it?
Or the part where I'm expressing my continued annoyance with the complete lack of realistic response from Samsung on this? (which is the point of the messsage - in case you missed it.)
As for being a great developer - this is actually quite tame compared to some of the things those better than myself (both of them, actually) have to say about samsung, HTC, and others.
I'm merely repeating what samsung's marketing department is already doing: Talking about a great ICS upgrade coming to these devices, but leaving the page blank when asked WHEN it's coming.
As for how it might make me look - I honestly couldn't care less. Because it seems to matter to you, however, I'll reveal that I didn't bother to shave this morning, and I haven't taken a shower since last night. Oh, and my shirt is wrinkled. (That has nothing to do with maturity - it's just laziness.)
Take care
Gary
laces sense of humor gently back into its hermetically sealed case:
garyd9 said:
night. Oh, and my shirt is wrinkled. (That has nothing to do with maturity - it's just laziness.)
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Thanks to Robyr, I was inspired to care how I might look. Therefore, I changed my shirt. Now it's not wrinkled. Thank you, robyr, for improving the world.
(Actually, I changed it because my cat decided to shed all over me. I just thought I'd BS a little. Perhaps it'll make someone feel more significant.)
Yeah gary, stop posting threads that play with the disrespect of samsung for us.
Sent from my GT-P6210
leodfs said:
Yeah gary, stop posting threads that play with the disrespect of samsung for us.
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Click to collapse
Really... Wow. This is NOTHING compared to the comments I post on google+ whenever one of the samsung people write about their upgrades, new hardware, and support policies.
It should say 'Coming soon!' or 'Error Code 404: Page cannot be found'.
garyd9, At first glance I was kinda pissed about this thread then I saw the sarcastic humor in in. Then I laughed. Thanks for making my day.
I just hope that once ICS drops there is enough source to get CM9 to this device. The current ROM is laggy as hell. A nice ASOP option would be wonderful.
painter_ said:
I just hope that once ICS drops there is enough source to get CM9 to this device. The current ROM is laggy as hell. A nice ASOP option would be wonderful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd be dishonest if I didn't say that I'm close to giving up hope for this tablet. Samsung is treating it as a red-headed stepchild, and won't even release the full honeycomb sources so that the dev community can pick up the pieces and fix that which they either don't care about or don't have the resources to fix.
However, its not just this one tablet. I'm starting to notice a pattern with samsung... they do make nice devices, but once they have your money, you apparently are nothing more than excess baggage to them. Instead of giving us good support, releasing GPL'd source code, and delivering upgrades that they promised, they gave us an app we can use to complain with. I guess having an app spitting out scripted responses is cheaper than having a human doing it. It's not like you really need a human to say "it's coming soon."
They have resources developing a dozen new devices at a time (given their rate of new product announcement), but what resources are fixing the issues and keeping their existing product lines current? It doesn't seem like much.
Since ICS was released on the GSM galaxy nexus (8 months ago), how many new products has samsung released or announced? A couple tablets, and several new phones. How many existing products (which were promised ICS upgrades) have received that upgrade? Two (and at least the SGSII release was very buggy.)
Keep in mind that samsung has had the ICS sources for quite a bit longer than other companies.. Yet, other companies are upgrading their existing devices long before samsung is. Look, for example, at Asus tablets.
What does that tell me? It tells me that if I buy a samsung device, they'll treat me well for the 14 day return period, and then treat me like dirt. It tells me that a samsung device is a FOOLISH investment.
Samsung, you will NOT be getting my money for my next tablet purchase. I don't care how thin it is or how fast it might be. I'd rather have a supported product that's slightly thicker or has a slightly slower processor.
Take care
Gary
If I get a Samsung device I think it would be a Nexus as google should provide better support.
I've got a Galaxy S Vibrant and Gingerbread hasn't even been released for it. Thanks to developers here on XDA it's running ICS.
GTOJim said:
If I get a Samsung device I think it would be a Nexus as google should provide better support.
I've got a Galaxy S Vibrant and Gingerbread hasn't even been released for it. Thanks to developers here on XDA it's running ICS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you have to blame T-mobile on this. They are in control. Vibrant 4G has GB, Captivate on both Rogers and AT&T get GB, i9000 got GB long before that.
What is with ICS for GT-6201(EU 3g)? I Only see 6200 and 6210(EU wifi).
Can anyone help me?
erbeuter said:
What is with ICS for GT-6201(EU 3g)? I Only see 6200 and 6210(EU wifi).
Can anyone help me?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same as with the one for GT P6200..STILL NOTHING!
but check out aorth's CM9 thread
Thanks bro, i have also a HD2 with ICS and the performance is awesome. So my tablet is making me crazy with the 3.2 version.
It's a new phone. It will have issues. Get over it. I've never seen so many people complain about something. It is literally the best phone you can get right now. If it doesn't work for you get an iPhone. I love this phone even with the issues it has. They will be fixed. Sorry just my two cents.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
It still amazes me that people complain about a new device having issues. This is HTC's new flagship device which has been created from the ground up. It's the first generation of said flagship line and is bound to have issues. Guess no one here had a 2g iPhone. Sure it was amazing, but I also had its short comings.
I returned my HOX cause they didn't have any available for exchange. Going to buy one tomorrow from Walmart. Can't wait to get it back.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Ddot196 said:
It's a new phone. It will have issues. Get over it. I've never seen so many people complain about something. It is literally the best phone you can get right now. If it doesn't work for you get an iPhone. I love this phone even with the issues it has. They will be fixed. Sorry just my two cents.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
I started a thread like this and it was closed in about 5 mins or less. It seems like complaining on here is the norm and not the exception. There are definitely some issues here and there...luckily for me, they don't affect me too much because of how I use the phone. Every phone I have had has had issues...best phone made period. Glad you're enjoying it.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
powerwagon said:
I started a thread like this and it was closed in about 5 mins or less. It seems like complaining on here is the norm and not the exception. There are definitely some issues here and there...luckily for me, they don't affect me too much because of how I use the phone. Every phone I have had has had issues...best phone made period. Glad you're enjoying it.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
I concur. It's ok to have threads like "Multitasking is a joke on this device", "Who else is returning their handsets?", "Disappointed w HTC QC" etc. but it's not ok to have a thread confronting the complainers. It's true that if you spend money on something and it has issues you're entitle to complain but srsly saying **** like "Im gonna return my HOX and buy an s3" is just plainly redundant. This phone is a complete new direction in manufacturing technology for HTC and the only thing I can chastise them for is the fact that they seem to rush it out, but I can totally understand that it has software/hardware issues. Instead of threatening to return and to buy from Samsung, why dont people just either do it and move on w their lives, or be patient and wait for a solution? Look at the screen flickering issue being incrementally solved as an example. Moreover, the S3 hasnt come out yet so stop it the comparing bs already. Werent the S and S2 plagued w issues upon launch as well?
Mini rant: Samsung hasnt changed their handset manufacturing or design since like forever (really I have a 2008 Samsung f480 or something and it looks reminiscent of the Galaxy line) so it's expected that their handset making process is more refined. It's not fair to compare an old-fashioned design w something as innovative looking as the HOX.
So, you are COMPLAINING about complainers? How is your topic any different from the rest? At least the topics where people complain about issues, helping raise an awareness of the problem, with a hope that the developers will fix them, while topics like this have absolutely no purpose whatsoever.
louis.b said:
"Multitasking is a joke on this device", "Who else is returning their handsets?", "Disappointed w HTC QC"
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Click to collapse
The great news is that the SGS3 will be in people's hands in less than two weeks. If the launch goes like the i9100, and GN, the comparisons to "perfect" that we've been seeing will suddenly look pretty feeble. As they say, "he who laughs last, laughs best."
---------- Post added at 10:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 AM ----------
[email protected] said:
So, you are COMPLAINING about complainers? How is your topic any different from the rest? At least the topics where people complain about issues, helping raise an awareness of the problem, with a hope that the developers will fix them, while topics like this have absolutely no purpose whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's little constructive conversation in the complaint threads. No one's trying to put their heads together to clarify and resolve a problem. They are ***** fests. The multitasking thread is a great example. 2/3 of the posts are just "OMFG, this is inexcusable" pile ons. And anyone that dares say it isn't bothering them is squashed like a roach.
I agree people need to stop *****ing. Nobody forced u to buy the device. If u don't like it return it. Otherwise stop *****ing.
Sent from my HTC One X using XDA
Its a new phone thread. Give it 2 months and all the trolling complainers will be on to the next phone with an irrelevant quadrant score that is 10% better.
[email protected] said:
So, you are COMPLAINING about complainers? How is your topic any different from the rest? At least the topics where people complain about issues, helping raise an awareness of the problem, with a hope that the developers will fix them, while topics like this have absolutely no purpose whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep...65 pages of the same people threatening to take their phones back will definitely help raise awareness.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
powerwagon said:
I started a thread like this and it was closed in about 5 mins or less. It seems like complaining on here is the norm and not the exception. There are definitely some issues here and there...luckily for me, they don't affect me too much because of how I use the phone. Every phone I have had has had issues...best phone made period. Glad you're enjoying it.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. People can complain for 65 pages about a new phone, but if someone creates a thread about being tired about all the *****ing, it gets closed immediately. The reply by the Mod was condescending and rude, yet he allows other threads to continue. No surprise though, it's the XDA way.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
BarryH_GEG said:
There's little constructive conversation in the complaint threads. No one's trying to put their heads together to clarify and resolve a problem. They are ***** fests. The multitasking thread is a great example. 2/3 of the posts are just "OMFG, this is inexcusable" pile ons. And anyone that dares say it isn't bothering them is squashed like a roach.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, what are you proposing about that particular? We should all just shut up, go with the flow enjoy the broken phone? Seriously, one thing is complain about something minor, like theme colors, another is something that makes the phone virtually unusable. The more people complain about such things, the more the manufactures get aware of that, the more chances they gonna do something about. Maybe perhaps we should get another topic where people can vote if they like it or not the multitasking is working?
Topics like this on other hand, has no practical or any other usage. That's my point.
[email protected] said:
Topics like this on other hand, has no practical or any other usage. That's my point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, topics like this help to even out the discussion and see both sides of the story. A casual user would get the impression that the phone was garbage and no one likes it if all they read are complaints. It needs to be known that not everyone is complaining about the phone. The last thing anyone wants is a media blackout.
Sent from my HTC One X
Make a Complaint section?
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
wbell1987 said:
It still amazes me that people complain about a new device having issues. This is HTC's new flagship device which has been created from the ground up. It's the first generation of said flagship line and is bound to have issues. Guess no one here had a 2g iPhone. Sure it was amazing, but I also had its short comings.
I returned my HOX cause they didn't have any available for exchange. Going to buy one tomorrow from Walmart. Can't wait to get it back.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Click to collapse
Seriously?
This is nothing like the first iphone. Android has been around a long time, Android 4.0 is like 7 months old. It's the same camera module from the year old SGS2.
What is so revolutionary? I like mine a lot, it's a slick phone, but it's not that groundbreaking.
[email protected] said:
So, what are you proposing about that particular? We should all just shut up, go with the flow enjoy the broken phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both Samsung and HTC have designed their products to meet the needs of millions of people. Along the way there were bound to be compromises. If any of those compromises don't meet your needs, don't buy the phone. XDA probably represents at most 5% of the phone buying public. For 25% of the 5% to think they can band together and try to make multi-billion dollar companies bend to their wishes is pretty naive. So by all means, have at it but don't ridicule the people that see the futility in some of the complaining.
Some of the features of the navigation system in my car drive me crazy and other members of its forum agree. It would be laughable for a small group of us to flame the manufacturer expecting them to revise the system because we don't like it. But yet, here on XDA, that's a pretty much daily occurrence. I don't like the way the automatic soap dispenser works on my dishwasher. Maybe I should gather up a group of fellow disgruntled owners and spam the manufacturer's Facebook page demanding they change it. If you want to send a message to a manufacturer stop buying their products. That'll get their attention a lot quicker than #neveragain campaigns. The GPS on the SGS (i9000) was in fact with no debate FUBAR. Owners launched the largest social campaign I've ever seen trying to get Samsung to fix it. Samsung never responded. They and Apple now share 90% of mobile device profits. Oh well, so much for that.
I don't know what you guys do for a living but decisions at large companies aren't emotional; they're statistically and financially driven. In cases like Asus and HTC unlocking their bootloaders it wasn't the rallying of the 25% of the 5% that made them rethink their policies. They were probably on the fence to begin with and the positive PR and low financial impact is what got them to change position. A device can easily meet the manufacturers financial objectives even if the entire XDA universe boycotted it. We're described as "enthusiasts" and make up a small but vocal part of the phone buying universe.
HTC's now on record saying multitasking is working as designed. Everyone here is still in their remorse period. You have two choices: 1) return the phone, 2) keep it and hope that since this is now on HTC's radar maybe there may be some future improvement. Option 3, which a lot of people seem to be taking, keeping the phone and *****ing among themselves isn't going to change how multitasking works.
Things like petitions and posting on social sites are fine. They are ways of communicating with the manufacturers and letting them know how some of their customers feel about their decisions. But as with everything, there's a time to call it a day and move on. This isn't a civil rights fight; we're talking about features on a phone. And of our "issues" probably 10% would even be noticed by the phone buying public in general.
BarryH_GEG said:
Both Samsung and HTC have designed their products to meet the needs of millions of people. Along the way there were bound to be compromises. If any of those compromises don't meet your needs, don't buy the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem here is none of such compromises are publicly available for users to weight their decision with, none of the reviews have mention such crucial flaws, they have some cons about colors in photos or phone being too wide, but nothing that would greatly affect user's experience with phone's usage. Customers will have to experience it themselves, which means they will have to buy it first. (for example LG Nitro HD has defective hardware compass and the only way to know about it to experience it yourself, because nobody is talking about)
In this particular case with multitasking, the only people who's not getting affected by it are the same people who shouldn't buy such phone in the first place, since they just wasting money on something they don't use to it's full potentials.
Also, the same logic as "don't like it, don't buy it" can be applied to the OP complaining about the complainers - don't like it, don't read it, move along. But, it's just does not work in our imperfect world...
[email protected] said:
it's just does not work in our imperfect world...
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Click to collapse
On this, you and I totally agree. Part of what makes XDA fun (for me) is the difference of opinion. It's interesting to see what's important to people and how everyone uses their device differently. The battles always start when smart, knowledgeble, strong-willed people all try to get each other to agree. And I've never seen that happen here or anywhere else.
Imagine I'm making a thread like "Who else is not returning their HOX and dont give a **** about the Samsung Plasticky s3". Pretty sure it will be closed so quick my chair still doesnt get warm yet.
ECEXCURSION said:
Actually, topics like this help to even out the discussion and see both sides of the story. A casual user would get the impression that the phone was garbage and no one likes it if all they read are complaints. It needs to be known that not everyone is complaining about the phone. The last thing anyone wants is a media blackout.
Sent from my HTC One X
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No i think what is being said is that these threads dont help other users, they just are meant as a knee-jerk reaction to complaints threads. If you want to do what you are suggesting in your post, then you should start a thread along the lines of "I love this phone and here's why", not "tired of the complaints." That's just a complaint about complaining, plain and simple.
I also started a thread speaking of my problems with the one X and I got a bunch of people whining about my whining which I don't understand. And the point of the thread was not intended to go that route. Anyways I guess alot has changed here in XDA.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
Alright, so after reading a couple articles on a bunch of sites. I can sort of understand a vicious cycle that's going on in the mobile development world.
First off, let me begin, Mobile OEMs (as we all know) don't release updates very often. And as a general rule, when they do... it's usually a couple months late. Just look at HTC devices, most of the (somewhat) older devices (depending on what you're definition of older is) aren't getting the updates to ICS for while http://goo.gl/FjcMJ . And in some cases they just decide not to update them at all. (see the Desire HD and possibly the Thunderbolt http://goo.gl/BwZld )
Initially when Android started, this was a little different. And allow me to clarify by going far far back, to the first Android device. The HTC Dream.
It initially came out with Android 1.0 (Astro) it eventually got updated all the way to the software version 1.5 (Cupcake). If you look back then, that's two software updates! Astro to Bender to Cupcake.
Now let's look at just about any other Android device (not made my Samsung, for the most part they're a bad example... (of course then again, they have the head of Cyanogenmod Steve Kondik on their team).
We're going to look at Motorola, because despite the fact that it's owned by Google, not all of their devices have received updates. And the device I've chosen from them is the defy. Now if you look over at the development section of the forums you'll see that we have a working (and apparently a very smooth) port of Jelly Bean for the Defy. http://goo.gl/mE1Qy
But if you decide to see what Motorola's deciding to do to update it from Gingerbread, well... their development section is devoid of everything for the Defy... http://goo.gl/g8XN0
Now why does that matter to us happy go lucky developers and modders? Well let's look over this little scenario I've played out in my head more than once.
CEO#1 "Oh they want Jelly Bean?"
CEO#2 "Yeah they do..."
CEO#1 "So what are we going to do about it?"
CEO#2 *checks XDA* "Nothing, the ones who really care about it have a working ROM up already."
CEO#1 "Okay, sounds good to me. So are you ready to go make some more phones with high specs and outdated software?"
CEO#2 "Well if we start now, we should be able to get six new devices running ICS 4.0.3 out by mid December!"
CEO#1 "Ohh, not even having the latest version of ICS is really going to get them. Brilliant!"
This is a vicious cycle that just keeps going around, and around, and around. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a way to stop it. While we need Superuser and rooting privileges, we also need updates to the latest version of Android OS to keep us going.
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates. The problem is that with their history of sending out updates we really can't stop working. And even when they do send out updates, sometimes they aren't even fully stable! (see Evo 3D http://goo.gl/VzCNM )
So the question is, how are we going to stop this?
Buy devices from the companies that keep things up to date. The Nexus gets direct pushes from Google so you know you're good there. Sony has a dedicated line to developers through their forums and even offers devices for temporary dev use and has reasonably priced unsubsidised phones.
Put your dollars in the right places if you want to make change happen. Those who want full access still aren't a large enough part of the market to shape everything. That said, people pushing for control have made sure that iDevices can be jailbroken and HTC is staggering hard because of mis-steps in marketing that have been worsened by lackluster updates and their decision to shun the dev community that was bolstering them.
They can't look at xda or whatever Android forum because there is a larger population of users who have no idea what rooting is, let alone custom ROMs. Those people depend on updates and if they won't get an official update, they won't get one at all.
Sent from my MB508 using xda premium
If you ask 10 Android users what version of Android they are on, 8 of them will have no clue, 1 will know because the sales rep used it as a selling point, and one of them will be running Jellybean (thanks to XDA!).
Consumer demand is not high enough to demand the cost of testing new software on dated phones. Sad but true.
thebeastglasser said:
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates.
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If they really saw us as free labor, they would release a phone with cyanogenmod or something and just kang whatever works for their next update. (Actually, this would be a very good idea.)
However, in actuality, they just don't care about the devs. Too busy trying to differentiate their products with custom skins and cause more work for everyone.
It is true that most people don't know much more than that they are are android or "droid", just like many people don't know much more than they have an Iphone. The vocal majority of phone users (online) however have quite a bit more knowledge which means they get much more feedback from the minority.
One of the main reasons (other than price) that I got a Nexus 7 was due to the fact that Google pushes updates immediately to their nexus devices. I see this as an additional "perk".
You can't buy a device Android or other from an OEM or carrier and expect to get the latest greatest updates a or mods any too quickly. Forums and sites like xda bring in developers and users who ate eager to offer mods and help that you will never find coming from the mainstream as quickly or with the same quality. I get the device I want and look to here to make it better quicker.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
But what I see is that there are a bunch of phones that could easily be running better software (like the Defy) but OEMs clearly see that anybody who seems to care enough about updates are doing it themselves. The problem is, there are relatives of mine who refuse to root and yet they know enough about phones to know what version they're running and know the difference between the two versions. The one they currently have, and the one they could have.
I feel like this is kind of unfair to the sed-mentioned people and on top of that, it makes uneducated users buy more phones, while it keeps people like us are at work.
I'd bet that it was a pain in the a** porting ICS to the Desire HD no thanks to HTC, and yet this is just one less job for HTC and a hell of a lot more work for us... That's just me.
And also, that idea for a "pre-kanged" phone or one running a version of Cyanogenmod is pretty good. It'd be a great idea...
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb not only because of devs, but because people who just end up with them will like seeing timely updates and devices that continue to get better and better. If you want to help the rise of affordable, quality devices then steer others toward them when you can and buy them yourself when it's time for something new.
Also, people on xda do not see development as a "work", they see it as a hobby...
So even if all the phones were on the latest android, the dev community here at Xda would still be hard at "work" to come up with something better...something which the OEM's and Google couldn't think of implementing even with such large resources at their disposal...
And let's face it, apart from games, the general public in large doesn't have "need" for BETTER phones...
I've seen the likes of HTC One X and Galaxy S3 go in the hands of people for whom multitasking would mean chatting on whatsapp while waiting for the fb app to load...
So the question would arise, if the public doesn't "need" better phones, how do we sell it to them?
The answer becomes clear, stop giving them updates...make them feel that their device is outdated...that they "need" a NEW and BETTER phone...
The ones who understand the capability of their phone would have the ability, or more importantly, the will to make the updates happen...
For the rest, well there's fancy advertising...
Hope this clears up...
- Via xda premium
Yeah, I suppose it makes sense. Thanks guys!
How many people are there using Android? About 60% of the market, which means hundred milion users How many members do we have here on XDA? Less than hundred thousands! It means that regular users dont know and dont care what OS they use or even dont know what the update is. Froyo, GB, ICS, JB sound like alien languages for most of regular users. For those who know wat they are using, they are already XDA members, the rest just doesnt care or they just simply buy an iCrapple. Therefore, there is no way you can stop that. Customers are always taken granted by companies.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda app-developers app
Extreemly well put. We all knew it but didn't say anything. I am awaiting the next nexus for this very reason. Props to thebeastglasser
MissionImprobable said:
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb
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The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
thebeastglasser said:
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
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Not currently active users though. Remember XDA used to make you register to download files so that jacked up the member rate.
thebobp said:
The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
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Click to collapse
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
Google is marketing a clean, recognizable line in their Nexus devices, advertising intelligently, and making sure that they continue to stay on the latest firmware. Supporting them and other companies who do so will dictate what model corporations follow. Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
Grassroots movements have done everything from keeping the iPhone legal to jailbreak to getting a man his goodies when a WP store tried to pull a fast one in regards to him winning the WP challenge to getting VZ to clarify that they wouldn't be doing anything to their Unlimited users. We may not be the majority, but we are far more organized and informed than the masses and as such what we do gets noticed and picked up on by tech, blog, and news coverage. The only ones who don't make change happen are the naysayers who sit by and do nothing. Support the brands that support the customers and devs.
MissionImprobable said:
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
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Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
MissionImprobable said:
Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
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Click to collapse
I'm not really convinced that Motorola's and HTC's losses were due to locked bootloaders, or even lack of firmware updates. Rather, I think it's due to brand inertia: at some point, Samsung came up with a phone (the Galaxy S2) that was so far ahead of anything else on the market at the time, that they just grabbed market share and brand loyalty from many of the consumers on the market. This has little to do with the Galaxy Nexus, and indeed their "next big thing" has been the horribly backward (from a stock perspective) S3 and the Note.
It's been my perception that there is a strong correlation between developer support and whatever device I want to get next.
When I got my very first phone, it was the Samsung Captivate.
It had (Still has) great dev support. I decided not to wait a month to get the Moto Atrix because, there was no predicting what kind of dev support it would have despite having great specs. I find that (generally speaking) Samsung phones have had strong dev support.
I sort of hate to point this out.. But, if you think the "average consumer" cares about upgrades.. I would be inclined to disagree. A lot of people do care about upgrades.. Myself, my girlfriend, a lot of people who frequent forums in general.
Still, your average consumer is probably more concerned with the screen size than the software it's packing. Even if ICS is "nicer" and "more elegant" there are a lot of people who really don't know or even care what OS their phone is running. As long as they can text and check facebook, they aren't going to be bothered with the small details of "Jellybean" or "ICS"
I have to be completely honest when I admit, if I were a manufacturer.. I don't honestly know how inclined I would be to release OS updates. Not because I want to be an evil corporation and force you to upgrade to get the newest OS.. But, because putting it plain and simply.. It takes time, energy, and money to release an update. If *ANYTHING* goes wrong with the update and even a single person doesn't follow the instructions.. It becomes really hard to prove they are the one at fault. So you spend your time and energy making an update, potentially having more cost incurred due to possibly damaged hardware, and then finally.. wondering how many people really cared in the first place. A lot of people don't care and even won't upgrade their phone because, they perceive it as "a pointless endeavor."
thebobp said:
Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
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What does this have to do with supporting companies that support us? Voting with your dollars is a metaphor; it doesn't mean that there is an election for phones.
Hi there xda,
You can also click the picture to get redirected to their website.
I recently found out a nice "wannabe" project called Phonebloks, what's your opinion about that?
I think it's a good thing to promote it on xda too. Feel free to comment about this.
Or you can access their website > http://www.phonebloks.com/
If the website is down for some reason, you can show your support here > https://www.thunderclap.it/projects/2931-phonebloks
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Now i'll state my opinion:
I believe this is a very good ideea, takes customisation to whole new levels and if it could be packed with an [bold]Android OS[/bold], it would be the whole new level of customisation, both hardware and software on the same platform.
Anyways, i believe this ideea should be promoted, even if we will never see it come to life, the ideea is pretty darn good. In other words, let's spread the word and at least give it a chance to start or become a trend.
There should be considered some serious stuff here. Not too many people would like to carry around a bulky device, it could be customisable from hardware to software, but it should be made a little more slim, maybe this could be done in time, or who knows, there is only an ideea for now, we can speculate here and dream about it and promote it.
Yeah, there could be a few more things to be talked about, but i'm a little tired now, so i'll be around
This is, by far, the greatest innovation for mobile devices in years. Have you seen the rate the video views are going up for their YouTube video? It's amazing that the general public is interested in something like this. As for the bulky form factor, I'd take this bulky, 100 percent customizable phone over every phone on the market to date. This is insane!
Sent from my SCH-I545 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Love it! I would buy one in a heartbeat.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using xda app-developers app
This definitely looks incredible, and I would buy one if I could. My biggest concern is the price. I can't see something like this being particularly cheap. The kind of engineering and technology that would have to go into this is staggering, and for the amount of time and effort being put into this to make it simple and user friendly, if it were sold at normal phone prices, it would be an incredible risk for the developing company.
Something like this is revolutionary and has been thought of for years. The problem is hasn't come into effect is because it will destroy the market. Manufacturers release new devices every few months. If this was available, there would be no need to buy a whole new device to get the latest and greatest.
Sent from my Atrix HD using Tapatalk 4
KayxGee1 said:
Something like this is revolutionary and has been thought of for years. The problem is hasn't come into effect is because it will destroy the market. Manufacturers release new devices every few months. If this was available, there would be no need to buy a whole new device to get the latest and greatest.
Sent from my Atrix HD using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, considering the bulky form factor, there could not be too much impact on the market because:
- People would like slim phones with bigger or smaller form factors.
- Companies can still get revenue from this project by investing in bloks.
- Price could be a problem.
- Fiability could be a problem.
All in all, the project is good, first of all we should see what happens with it, if it will ever be developed or something like that. Only time will tell
Engineers first day;
Step 1 - Advil
Step 2 - cry
I like the idea. The engineering side of things is going to be quite intense.
I give them my support though
As an engineer, this would be cool. It would also be essentially impossible to create. If the CPU, RAM, and memory were soldered in then it would be much easier, but then the project loses most of its appeal.
This is an incredible idea, I've shared as much as I can without being excessive. I know this most likely will never happen but I've had a few talks with people who hate having phones that being obsolete after a year or two. I'd love to see this produced and would most defiantly support them with their endeavor. :good:
Well, surely there would be a need of some serious engineering, but hey, at least the ideea is good, people can brainstorm on getting it up and running. The ideea is good, people are interested, now, we need companies and engineers to devote to this and we'll see wat happens
KayxGee1 said:
Something like this is revolutionary and has been thought of for years. The problem is hasn't come into effect is because it will destroy the market. Manufacturers release new devices every few months. If this was available, there would be no need to buy a whole new device to get the latest and greatest.
Sent from my Atrix HD using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that would be great.
I think people is realising that is worth having something that will last. I'm in photography and the market is just crazy, new cameras every year and so much time needed to get confident with a model that becomes obsolete even if it could work for years.
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