Database Info

Privacy Concerns - Google Firmware

I am concerned that Google has their tentacles all throughout the OS, and I want to take all measures to stop that. I particularly don't like their search query tracking (I use ixquick) and their nav app, as their privacy policies are atrocious.
Before someone accuses me of being a hacker or criminal, I am simply not willing to hand over my 220 year old Constitutional rights for a transient fear campaign manufactured by The Machine. And I do not want my information used for profit without permission. I used to be a cracker, and know what is possible. I'll not respond to those who call me 'paranoid'; they are oblivious.
Of course I'll not be using the apps of that-search-engine-everybody-uses. Removing them forthwith, in favor of whatever GPL open-source apps there are available for various functions. Using self-contained nav software like CoPilot or TomTom.
So, have any devs investigated whether Android phones home at any interval? Have measures been taken to privacy-enable the Android firmware?
I hear that HTC has some sort of 'phone home' function. How to neuter that?
What good is Wifi? Is it that you can use that when available, not using up 3G bytes? I am asking what use it is on a mobile in consideration of mobility and the security problems -- what uses can this be put to, and how to secure the phone?
Where is the best place to find open-source apps?

I'm curious about this as well, not so much from a privacy standpoint, but how the hell can I stop the mysterious data that is flowing out of my phone when everything like background syncing and all data connections are turned off.

http://source.android.com/
This is all you need - you could remove/modify anything you want, so... what's your problem? And actually Google apps aren't in the Android sources, so you won't have them after compiling. Yeah, two birds with one stone.
Also you could disable WiFi if you don't like it.
Tachikoma_kun said:
how the hell can I stop the mysterious data that is flowing out of my phone when everything like background syncing and all data connections are turned off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Errr... what ROM and how many apps do you have installed? There is no "mysterious data" on clean system, but 25% of apps use data connection for various reasons.

I'm on the stock 2.1 ROM for the Samsung Galaxy S. I turn all the background syncing, email, and stuff like that off, and overnight it can use about 1MB of data.
I don't have any "free" apps running that might download new banners or anything like that.

The background syncing does not turn anything off as far as I know.
To my knowledge it allows 3rd party apps the ability to check if the user has flagged this, but they do not have to respect this flag.

Tachikoma_kun said:
I'm on the stock 2.1 ROM for the Samsung Galaxy S. I turn all the background syncing, email, and stuff like that off, and overnight it can use about 1MB of data.
I don't have any "free" apps running that might download new banners or anything like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Syncing is just... syncing. But there are many other things, that apps do. Spare Parts -> Battery history -> Network usage.

Brut.all said:
http://source.android.com/
This is all you need - you could remove/modify anything you want, so... what's your problem?
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Click to collapse
What's my problem, LOL? I am a 52yo real estate developer, not a coder. This is why I'm asking the question.

Quantumstate said:
What's my problem, LOL? I am a 52yo real estate developer, not a coder. This is why I'm asking the question.
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Click to collapse
i think he meant either put up or shut up, which is a pretty reasonable statement.
IMO it's anonymous user data.... let them build cybernet
otherwise say no to the T.O.S that is your constitutional right if you have "privacy" concerns

Brut.all said:
Syncing is just... syncing. But there are many other things, that apps do. Spare Parts -> Battery history -> Network usage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, will give that a try.

themapleboy said:
i think he meant either put up or shut up, which is a pretty reasonable statement.
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Click to collapse
I meant we all have access to the sources, so we don't have to "investigate" what Android exactly does - we just know, that it doesn't do any "mysterious" things. There are many people working with these sources for many months, I doubt there are some undiscovered things.

Brut.all said:
I meant we all have access to the sources, so we don't have to "investigate" what Android exactly does - we just know, that it doesn't do any "mysterious" things. There are many people working with these sources for many months, I doubt there are some undiscovered things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
u know what they say about assuming...... it always makes you look like a jackass

Yeah, I mean we're not playing with iOS4 or anything.
In all seriousness, Android's been out for quite a while now and has been looked at by a LOT of people. Not saying that it's *impossible* but it's highly unlikely that anything nefarious is going on.
If you're still concerned, I suppose you could always opt not to install the Google Apps, but you'd be a bit limited, functionality-wise.
Sent from my Droid using XDA App

themapleboy said:
let them build cybernet
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Click to collapse
O' little do you know... many years ago I did work in Eastern Europe. You have no idea the paranoia a society can endure. For an idea, watch the old TV series Danger Man. Or the movie 1984.
If most young people share your view, it is a dark future. I'm glad I'll be dead.
herald83 said:
In all seriousness, Android's been out for quite a while now and has been looked at by a LOT of people. Not saying that it's *impossible* but it's highly unlikely that anything nefarious is going on.
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Understand. I just can not believe though that Google is not harvesting some sort of information, as that's their business model. They never discard any info they receive, and you can build a shockingly accurate portrait of someone from their searches over time. Google's CEO recently said, "If You Have Something You Don't Want Anyone To Know, Maybe You Shouldn't Be Doing It", echoing the Bush Doctrine of a Police State.
Maybe Android is innocuous for now, and I'm sure it's been examined. But I'm wondering what the results were? Why are ppl seeing data outflows?

I smell a rat...
Quantumstate said:
...Before someone accuses me of being a hacker or criminal, I am simply not willing to hand over my 220 year old Constitutional rights for a transient fear campaign manufactured by The Machine. And I do not want my information used for profit without permission. I used to be a cracker, and know what is possible. I'll not respond to those who call me 'paranoid'; they are oblivious...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quantumstate said:
What's my problem, LOL? I am a 52yo real estate developer, not a coder. This is why I'm asking the question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A 52yo real estate developer, whose not a coder, but used to be a "cracker" and knows what is possible? Anyone else here think this doesn't make a bit of sense?
It's funny, but it sounds like someone is trying to stir up some FUD by making claims that Android is somehow doing an "All your data are belong to us...". I hope Apple aren't paying your cheques!

@perpetualmotionuk: Be advised that there is a difference between mathematics and decryption, and coding. Yes I can do some coding, but not at a level necessary to analyze and modify an operating system.
If Apple were paying my 'cheques', wouldn't I come in with some sort of proof that monitoring is taking place? Rather than asking what others have found?
Now, rather than trying to tear people down, why don't you use that considerable nose to investigate this yourself?

No one's seen anything about info leakage?

Quantumstate said:
Understand. I just can not believe though that Google is not harvesting some sort of information, as that's their business model. They never discard any info they receive, and you can build a shockingly accurate portrait of someone from their searches over time. Google's CEO recently said, "If You Have Something You Don't Want Anyone To Know, Maybe You Shouldn't Be Doing It", echoing the Bush Doctrine of a Police State.
Maybe Android is innocuous for now, and I'm sure it's been examined. But I'm wondering what the results were? Why are ppl seeing data outflows?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of that data is pulled from search history, I suspect. Which you can disable, if I recall. Don't have my phone on me at the moment to confirm.

I just did a very simple test on an emulator: after ~15 minutes of running system there was 0 (zero, null) of network packets. Now I want to do the same on a device with clean system, but I think results will be the same or similar (SDK system is just normal Android - very similar to these from devices).
I have a feeling that even if I will catch zero packets as well, you will be asking whether Google send something mysterious through... errr... bluetooth? Some hidden antenna?

If you're worried about Google tracking your info...root the phone and don't install the Google apps. What do ya know...problem solved.
If you're still worried that people are tracking what you are doing see steps below.
1) Flush phone or give to a homeless guy to throw them off.
2) Destroy Computers.
3) Liquidate everything you own.
4) Walk into the woods and live off the land.
5) Kill self shortly after because they already have a file on you.
You say you're a 52 year old real estate developer...guess what...they're already tracking you. You're already helping to build "cybernet" just by living and breathing.
And if you are really worried about your "220 year old Constitutional Rights" then go read the Patriot Act and discover that you don't have ****.
I'm normally not one to flame...but you are an absolute idiot.

I'm not an English person, excuse for the syntax/grammar/... mistakes I'd could make.
hedjemunkee said:
I'm normally not one to flame...but you are an absolute idiot.
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Click to collapse
I don't understand WHY this person could be considered as "an absolute idiot" by ASKING if some 'data' are sent over the network through the phone.
Facebook, with it's ad system is sending information for each ad displayed (not alot, but still some !)....
ADS.GOOGLE do you have any idea about what's behind !?
I don't have the number (nobody have it) of webpages using it but it's huge. with this you can track navigation of people, establish profiles, link to a physical person. Without your consent.
I understand the concern of the "OP" here. I don't think the data sent are easy to "catch", or are systematically sent... maybe there is no, and you are paranoid. But it "COULD". So easily. I'm from the young tech generation.
And to quote
Quantumstate said:
If most young people share your view, it is a dark future. I'm glad I'll be dead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People who don't ask themselve the question, or wich refuse to be open minded enough to consider the right to ask this question ... could be surprised very soon. I'm not directly affraid of "google". I'm affraid of those 'blind' people.
You'll be dead in less than 10years !? I hope we can share some of the darkness you're talking about. your parent's generation started it, you continued it.
Anyway, back to the topic.
Why in my pocess list i've : (app id number) com.ap.SnapPhoto:remote
even when I do not use the camera !?
...when I notice my battery is being used more than usual I check the process list and I find this...
What's this "remote" !?
Maybe "remote" refers to "another app wich launch this app"... ? Otherwise... wow.

3G Watchdog Pro

Hiya guys, got a quick question.
Is anyone else here using 3G Watchdog Pro on their Play??
I have noticed over the last couple months that when checking my will, my internet usage is WAY higher than 3G Watchdog Pro is telling me, for example, last month (15th June to 15th July) my bill says: data 336.0573mb, but 3G Watchdog Pro only says 67.97mb
Does anyone know why this may be happening, or is there a better program to be using??
Thanx for the help in advance
Adam.

I use the free version of net sentry.
I hate apps with a million unnecessary options. Apps that can do a million things except the thing you really downloaded it for really piss me off.
This one has exaclty what you need.
1) Wi-Fi / 3G usage counters
2) The ability to set a reset counter date (so it ties in with your billing dates / monthly dates).
That is all you need, that is all it gives

dsswoosh said:
I use the free version of net sentry.
That is all you need, that is all it gives
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank u so much!!
That app works so much better than 3G Watchdog does!!
Only downside is it doesnt have a widgit, but a link on my home screen is good enuff for me!!

Where is the link..even I want to try it..
Sent from my U20i using XDA Premium App

dunno if this is allowed, but here is a link to it i found
http://www.androidzoom.com/android_applications/tools/netsentry_bagi.html

dsswoosh said:
I use the free version of net sentry.
I hate apps with a million unnecessary options. Apps that can do a million things except the thing you really downloaded it for really piss me off.
This one has exaclty what you need.
1) Wi-Fi / 3G usage counters
2) The ability to set a reset counter date (so it ties in with your billing dates / monthly dates).
That is all you need, that is all it gives
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I too hate apps with unnecessary options... when I don't need them. So I pick the right tool for my needs.
But your needs are not everybody's needs. Why do you think there are so many options in 3g Watchdog Pro? Because users requested them. And there are a lot more waiting in the pipe, even after many of them have been put aside. You have no idea how many things people ask for, just because not everybody has your needs (sorry for repeating, apparently it doesn't seem obvious to you).
As for 3G Watchdog being not accurate, I guess it must be accurate for some people at least. After all, there are 1.3 million active users for the free version and an average rating of 4.68, so either people are masochists or it must be statistically accurate for most people. But people satisfied tend to manifest themselves less.
This said, with so many phone models, Android versions and custom interfaces (the infamous Android fragmentation problem), new problems appear and can't be avoided, regardless of which data counting app you are using. The positive attitude to help to solve these problems (who affect the developer even more than users - by wasting his time) is to write to the developer with as many details as possible to give him a chance to find the problem, definitely not an easy task as he can't possibly own all phones on the planet and reproduce the problems.
Richard (3GW author)

rgruet said:
I too hate apps with unnecessary options... when I don't need them. So I pick the right tool for my needs.
But your needs are not everybody's needs.
Richard (3GW author)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Firstly, can i just say, I loved 3G Watchdog, and never had any complaints about it, untill i started to notice it was not accurate on my device. Being new to Android, and the Market, i came here for advice first, before contacting developers.
Secondly, I started using Net Sentury, and that just stopped working all together, didnt update for nearly a day. So i binned that one off too. I have now started using NetCounter, and that SEEMS to be working fine, so far, lol.
Finally, I TOTALLY agree, just cos one person doesnt like one bit of a program, a million other people might love that feature. I respect dsswoosh for informing me of another program to use and obviously everyone can have their opinion about everything, lol. But like i said, even the program he suggested for me to use, gave up the ghost, lol.
I would like to say many thanx to u Richard, for writing 3GW, I would love to be able to write programs for Android, and have them look as good as 3GW!!

[Q] Child security for Play

Hi guys,
My sister has two young sons intent on having Father Christmas bring them their first cellphones this year, and have been dropping hints like napalm about the Play being sooooo good for gaming on the move and currently sooo cheap. It looks like she will bow to their wishes against her better judgement. Her main concern is net security and limiting the access that they have to adult content and potential abuse etc on the handset. Can anyone recommend a good app that can limit the type of content a child can access on this handset?
All suggestions welcome and appreciated

I know of nothing like that per-say. But some launchers and apps give you the ability to hide applications. Your friend could just hide the default browser, giving her children no access to the internet.

I wouldn't give them that phone period if as you say it's against the mother's intentions. Children can do with a cheaper phone, and with none at all.
You can hide the internet browser (and any other app like, say, Settings) quickly and easily with Launcher Pro. The Market now allows you to protect purchases with a password... And there are apps which allow you to password-protect any app before running.
That said, shielding children from the interwebs is not exactly a great idea in the long run.

How old are the kids? I recommend them to be atleast 13/12 so they won't lose it..
Sent from my R800i using XDA App

Logseman said:
I wouldn't give them that phone period if as you say it's against the mother's intentions. Children can do with a cheaper phone, and with none at all.
You can hide the internet browser (and any other app like, say, Settings) quickly and easily with Launcher Pro. The Market now allows you to protect purchases with a password... And there are apps which allow you to password-protect any app before running.
That said, shielding children from the interwebs is not exactly a great idea in the long run.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that it is at best a bad idea giving young kids a smartphone of that specification, but there's nothing I can do about that now. And yes, shielding kids from the net would be a little unfair as that is one function this thing performs well that they cannot use on, say a Nintendo DSi. These two kids, young as they are, are pretty tech savvy and love to browse the web.
They have a netbook which they share and it has a net nanny on board which has been effective thus far.
My main concern is limiting the amount of access they can have through their web browser on the phone, and keeping their information private and safe. A similar package that might be available from the Android Market? I've looked around the Market myself (X10i's rock, by the way!! ), but haven't seen anything that really serves this purpose. I thought maybe one of you might have been in a similar situation?
With the recent price drop in the Xperia Play (now well under 200 euro in Ireland on top up now), this is going to be a very popular first phone for kids this Christmas and I'm sure there are many other parents who would share the same concerns

Cat_On_Droid said:
How old are the kids? I recommend them to be atleast 13/12 so they won't lose it..
Sent from my R800i using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are both a little too young in my opinion ( one is twelve and the other fast approaching eleven) to own one of these, but that's really not my decision to make. I'm just their uncle, not their Dad, so I have little or no say. I advised my sister against making this purchase but it fell on deaf ears. So now my priority is about damage limitation and to kid proof their phones instead.
And, honestly, if one, or both of them lose their phones, then I will sleep a lot more soundly! It's a simple enough job to wipe a smartphone remotely so lost data shouldn't be an issue. It would however show they are not yet old nor responsible enough to own a phone and they would have to wait quite a while before getting another! These things don't grow on trees!

The Xperia play is not the hardiest of phones, So you may want to buy a case and put on screen protectors.

Hey man check with the service provider. Most carriers make you get the data package with android phones now, maybe they have a family setting on their end. Personally I blocked the inappropriate stuff from my nieces via our router, but seeing as 3g/4g traffic isn't routed on our end, maybe your service provider may have a setting for it on their end.

DroidWall
But to use it you need to be root and the child could disable it. The best way would be to give them a SIM that doesn't have data access enabled...
But then there is wifi.
How old are the kids ? If they are less than 10, I wouldn't give them a phone at all. If they are more than 10, chances are they have already watched porn and violent scenes so I can't see much of an issue with giving them access to the internet.

I know T-Mobile have an internet security setting... check with the provider
Sent from my R800i using XDA App

adyblers said:
They are both a little too young in my opinion ( one is twelve and the other fast approaching eleven) to own one of these, but that's really not my decision to make. I'm just their uncle, not their Dad, so I have little or no say. I advised my sister against making this purchase but it fell on deaf ears. So now my priority is about damage limitation and to kid proof their phones instead.
And, honestly, if one, or both of them lose their phones, then I will sleep a lot more soundly! It's a simple enough job to wipe a smartphone remotely so lost data shouldn't be an issue. It would however show they are not yet old nor responsible enough to own a phone and they would have to wait quite a while before getting another! These things don't grow on trees!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All networks have a 18+ policy on there networks. Now the only devices or Sims that come with the 18+ lock off is contract phones or Sims as you have to be 18+ to buy one. But on payg phones and Sims the parental lock is automatically and the only way to switch it off is to call the network provider and prove your age by credit card. Debit don't work only credit. But hate to say it. The kids would always be able to find porn by just going onto google images. Unless you turn it on to strict filtering. Now for the data protection and remote lock and wipe I use an app called NetQin. Now it costs £1.50 pm and is done through a text directly from the app. It provides virus scanner, call safety (stops people listening to your calls) web protection (hides your important information while surfing) GPS tracker from there site, remote lock and wipe, and many more. Also the main thing I like. Is if someone else puts there sim in it. It sends a msg to a designated number with the thiefs mobile number, and a msg you setup. I suggest setting it up to say the imei number.
Regards
Blackwatch
Sent from my R800i using xda premium

Blackwatch89 said:
All networks have a 18+ policy on there networks. Now the only devices or Sims that come with the 18+ lock off is contract phones or Sims as you have to be 18+ to buy one. But on payg phones and Sims the parental lock is automatically and the only way to switch it off is to call the network provider and prove your age by credit card. Debit don't work only credit. But hate to say it. The kids would always be able to find porn by just going onto google images. Unless you turn it on to strict filtering. Now for the data protection and remote lock and wipe I use an app called NetQin. Now it costs £1.50 pm and is done through a text directly from the app. It provides virus scanner, call safety (stops people listening to your calls) web protection (hides your important information while surfing) GPS tracker from there site, remote lock and wipe, and many more. Also the main thing I like. Is if someone else puts there sim in it. It sends a msg to a designated number with the thiefs mobile number, and a msg you setup. I suggest setting it up to say the imei number.
Regards
Blackwatch
Sent from my R800i using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
18+ locks are useless imo. There will always be apps that get around it like opera mini. That connects to.the internet using a VPN. Rendering all 18+ locks useless
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk

Many carriers have porn blocks however if you use opera mini it bypasses it since they are 11/12 they probably already seen it I no i have by then I'm 18 now. There is a app called porn blocker on the market and net nanny hope this helps
Also you should post this in android general not a specific phone since most things for 1 things work on others
Sent from my R800i using xda premium
https://market.android.com/details?id=com.cloudacl&hl=en
or
http://bit.ly/tyDFXZ

On some routers, and you can block websites with keywords that you input from loading.
Sent from my XPlay using XDA App.

AndroHero said:
18+ locks are useless imo. There will always be apps that get around it like opera mini. That connects to.the internet using a VPN. Rendering all 18+ locks useless
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I know that. That is why I said that they will more than likely still be able to find porn. But it all depends what these kids are like. If there little brats (no offence to op) then I would worry about it but if they are well behaved kids and brought up well and taught its naughty and they are doing well at school then I wouldn't worry so much. Most kids aren't interested these days. They mainly want it for games. Also if they want to use the internet then I would just block the web on the phone and just only let them use it when at home. Put a password in market and browser and when at home you type the password in so they can use it indoors on the set up WiFi that stops them from searching or going on adult sites. So when they are out they can only call and play on games. No web. No browser. No market. That is probably your safest option.
Edit: just went on the market there is a browser called safe browser the porn blocker. It blocks adult content and the kids can't change the settings as they need a password so block the market with a password when they go out and then they can't download amother browser. Hope this helps.
Regards
Blackwatch
Sent from my R800i using xda premium

How old are the kids?
When my kids 3 & 6 borrows my phone for gameplaying I always turn off data traffic.
If they are older, root their phones, edit host file and ban all www and .com adresses.
That wont stop them forever but before they figure out how to fix it, they are probably old enough to find pr0n on other ways...
Sent from my LG Optimus 2x using XDA Premium App

He did say in a follow up post how old they were
Sent from my Xperia Play using xda premium

Thanks for your input guys. Plenty to consider there.

adyblers said:
Her main concern is net security and limiting the access that they have to adult content and potential abuse etc on the handset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just send the two kids to China, then they wont be able to access adult contents any more.
**** 'Great Fire Wall'.

i've been told this BEFORE so i will REPEAT it no swearing young people read this forum. and most likely you are younger than 18 aswell. i am 18 so i dont care but some people may be offended

Extremely disappointed with the android community

I just need to vent. I'm a fairly active developer for the android platform. I've created a number of kernel patches and applications that I have released at no charge to the community for about 10 or so devices.
All this I do in my "spare time", which I have very little of because I am a full time professional student who takes on 32 credit hour semesters.
Recently, since my 1994 geo prizm is literally falling apart and I was hoping to scrounge together a little bit of money to get a new car so I don't end up stranded on my way to class, I decided to release a paid application. Fastcharge / Force AC toggle which allows you to toggle on and off the force AC feature. A feature which I have personally implemented and released source patches for on a number of devices.
Not only in every thread where I released the patch on a device did I write up how to toggle the feature through the command line, but I also stated that I also implemented a toggle into my completely free application that you can also download from the market, IncrediControl.
In good faith and knowing how annoying licensing is, I elected to not include licensing in my application. This is a huge regret.
Within a couple days of releasing the application to the market I googled it to see if anyone was talking about it. One of the first links was to a piracy site where a user was requesting the widget, to which another user obliged and posted the apk to a filesharing site. Doing something I never though I would have to do, I filed a DMCA takedown request, which was answered quickly and the app was taken down. Monitoring the thread, every single time a link gets taken down, another user requests the app and the original user reuploads it, most recently to 11 different sites.
So now, after filing dozens of takedown requests. This user has decided to unzip my apk, change out the artwork, and now is going around releasing it as his own work.
Really, all this to avoid paying $1.50 (only ~$1 of it actually going to me) to an individual whose yearly income is low enough that he doesn't have to file taxes?
This disgusts me.
This is even worse than the 50% "order cancellation rate" that the widget has. I'm not stupid, I know exactly what users are doing, but yet initially I was willing to ignore it. But this has gone too far.
What is even the point of pissing off a developer so much that he is considering saying screw the platform all together? It doesn't even make sense. We, the developers improve your devices, generally at little or no cost, and this is how we're repaid. With ~50% of current users of the application having pirated it. To avoid paying just over $1.
Now before someone even counters with the "my area doesn't support paid applications" argument I've actually gladly GIVEN the widget away to a number of users who casually mentioned in the release threads that they couldn't download it for this reason. Not to mention, everyone knows there are apps that unlock the market in these areas to be able to purchase apps.
How much more generous can a developer be than to provide source code patches for a feature, provide information on how to toggle the feature, provide a COMPLETELY FREE way to toggle the feature, and then charge a measly $1.50 for a secondary, slightly more convenient way to toggle.
Yet he's repaid like this .

Of course, this must suck for a developer like you. Unfortunately, it seems to happen more and more often, and all I can really say is:
I would gladly pay a few bucks for an application like IC or BootManager. That BootManager seemed really interesting, but we can't buy apps from the Play Store without CC (and as a 16-year old, I don't have one). I asked the developer if he accepted Paypal, but he didn't.
Don't get me wrong, and this is not an attack to you personally: developers, if you made something really nice, and people will like it, 70% of the people will gladly pay for it, just make sure you allow them to.

Chaosz-X said:
70% of the people will gladly pay for it, just make sure you allow them to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I honestly thought this was the case. It's really not. The problem is much worse than that. If 70% of users in the root community paid for apps it would be astonishing. Its made pretty clear by the number of users who download the app, back it up and then cancel the order.
If a 16 year old kid had made me that offer, the e-mail reply I sent would have the apk attached.

Well, that is a real flaw of Android: tweakability is really impressing, but these things make it really difficult to earn some money as a developer.
We have been thinking about anti-piracy measures as well, with stuff such as authentication with a server, and locking down the code and verifying integrity of APKs and stuff to make sure it's really hard to mess with the code, but it's just sad that there's a need for these measures..

The trouble is everything has piracy right from movies to game consoles through to mobiles and music.
I mean the iPhones appstore would be a hell of a lot bigger if there was no jailbreaking and installous.
Every platform has been cracked so you'll get it regardless of what you develop for.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA

I think you know you just needed to vent but can I change your picture.
There are some people in this world who just don't buy the idea of an idea as property. That's not compatible with this business model. That's the first problem.
The next problem is that
there's a million and one apps out there and which one are we going to choose? Where does it start, where does it end? We all have our limits. What's yours?
For me, the app has to be something very unique and possible generate me cash. For example something I use every day at work. If it's something that the phone should do anyway I tend to skip it and save the $1 for the next phone that does it out of the box. Your app is a great thing, but there's many utility apps out there. It just doesn't fall into the kind of thing I'd cave my strict budgeting for. There are people here with a 1000 apps installed and you expect them to pay $1000 in this sense.
Another way would be having utility in the cloud and then the app is free. Another one of course, advertising.
The difference with both of these is we don't need to risk a credit card with the market. That's the main reason I personally haven't bought many apps and I'd imagine it's a problem for minors too.
The very community that allowed us to create the app fails to pay for it's products is like life itself.
I'd say make something for the iphone instead because there's more profit there but that would never have been possible, see what I'm saying? That's the 3rd problem.
So you've got 3 problems there all converging into one big push towards piracy. But remember, can your app assure security that the pirated version cannot for example? This is how one has to think.
In short,
you can't do something and hope to make a bit from it on the side. You got to go out from the start and get the money aspect central from the start. I mean, that's business and of course that's exactly what the android community works hard to free us from.
Still, summarising those 3 points for suggestion:
- offer something free things can't (i.e. security, brand etc) For example, I never run pirated stuff for fear of insecurity on my data whereas I'll try out software that way on an old PC
- can always put a service in the cloud aka the javascript trap
- iphone is there if you want...
- needs to "the one app" a certain person would pay for, not something everyone likes
Also just to make that point again, if one does not believe in property then inconveniently there is no moral crime here. I suggest learn to live with this and go with the flow

I hope google sells PlayStore cards (like itunes cards) that allows user to buy apps, music, movies, books without a credit card. I really want to buy some amazing apps but i dont have a credit card so i just use free apps. I think that if u cant buy an app that cant be a reason to piracy or sidedownload that app.

jago25_98 said:
For me, the app has to be something very unique and possible generate me cash. For example something I use every day at work. If it's something that the phone should do anyway I tend to skip it and save the $1 for the next phone that does it out of the box. Your app is a great thing, but there's many utility apps out there. It just doesn't fall into the kind of thing I'd cave my strict budgeting for. There are people here with a 1000 apps installed and you expect them to pay $1000 in this sense.
Another way would be having utility in the cloud and then the app is free. Another one of course, advertising.
The difference with both of these is we don't need to risk a credit card with the market. That's the main reason I personally haven't bought many apps and I'd imagine it's a problem for minors too.
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The feature is 100% unique and so is the widget. Not to mention, if you didn't want to pay the $1, I provided a free way to toggle the feature in the utility app. The point is, that there is nothing forcing people to pay for the widget to use the feature. But instead of using the free option provided, they not only pirate the paid app, but edit the artwork and release it for free as their own. It defies logic.
Also, ad based apps don't work with the rooted community. I learned that early on. Myfree utility app is ad supported. With over 40,000 installs you would think it would make even a dollar a day. Nope, makes nearly nothing. That's when I realized that the same niche I was marketing to are the same people who block ads. Even if someone didn't want to block ads, they can't install a single ROM that doesn't include an ad blocking hosts file out of the box.

chad0989 said:
[...] How much more generous can a developer be than to provide source code patches for a feature, provide information on how to toggle the feature, provide a COMPLETELY FREE way to toggle the feature, and then charge a measly $1.50 for a secondary, slightly more convenient way to toggle.
Yet he's repaid like this .
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Be sure you're looking at all sides. Yes, you're in a losing war with guys intent on pirating your app. You can't stop them, and well, you goofed on the licensing, so someone will no doubt release the clone.
First of all, don't do the Big Media thing and assume that everybody that pirates your app would have paid for it if it hadn't been available. A lot of folks collect, or just try something once. You'll only work yourself into a funk thinking about all that money you "would" have if only they hadn't been able to pirate it. They wouldn't have. At least not all of them.
More importantly, be aware that placing something out there with value does reach folks that otherwise would have no idea of you or your plight. More than once, I've purchased an app that I don't really need, but found clever and cheap enough I can buy it without thinking about the investment. I've spent more on Android software at $1-15 over the last year than I did over the last 25+ at $30-100 a pop. I've only refunded an app once, by accident.
Finally, be up front about your situation. A guy trying to make do does influence my impulse buying. So does his reputation. If you're doing a lot, be sure that's clear on your app page, and let us know clearly you're the guy that also brought us whatever.
I am curious, though: How much did you actually bring in?

Chad- thanks for telling your story, I agree that you have every right to be disappointed. Especially the buying and refunding, that to me send almost worse because you can't stop dedicated pirating, but I would have hoped the rest would have bought the app.
It's easy to forget the human side of development, so thanks for sharing your side.

Jesus christ Chad. This is f$%&*#@ ridiculous. Probably the best and most generous kernel dev I have ever come into contact with, and people are cheating you out of 1.50. Please don't abandon Android. I need kernels when I get my rezound! but in all seriousness, warez needs to stop.
Sent from my ADR6400L

Yep. Sucks. After getting serious about android , which wasn't too far in, joining with a nexus one and seeing all the free HARD work we get, I definitely try buying stuff I use. If I can't pay sometimes I will see if dev does something else I can donate to. Its an issue I've thought about and part of it really boils down to how sorry people are in general. They want free and cheap. $1 is laughable even when it can be easily had for free. You really should market yourself a bit even though you don't want to. And people should really put a complimentary $5 or so budget a month or more and try to support devs. Maybe if you have something he gave free but has an app you won't use for a buck, buy the dollar app and uninstall after the 15 minute period. Or throw him a 5 through PayPal or something. Its simple really. If these devs don't have to resort to ramen and water they keep dev'ing especially for the community supporting him or her. And if they're eating vegetables and have plenty of red bull money it gives them wings. Otoh, the devs that make us pay to reinstall an app after we bought it on another or lost our phone suck. Balls. Won't buys theirs anymore.
teach a man to fish, you feed him for life. teach a man to fastboot, and you create competency. and less threads on xda.

Maybe you should implement a system like some developers do where you download the app for free with a time limited trail, then they would go to another website to pay for the app to unlock it, and the unlock codes would be unique for every user which would minimize piracy.
Sent from my GT-N7000 Samsung Galaxy Note "Go big or go home" using XDA app

rafa6571 said:
I hope google sells PlayStore cards (like itunes cards) that allows user to buy apps, music, movies, books without a credit card. I really want to buy some amazing apps but i dont have a credit card so i just use free apps. I think that if u cant buy an app that cant be a reason to piracy or sidedownload that app.
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In the Netherlands we have prepaid Visa card.
Works well.
Maybe you google something similar in your own country.
(3V prepaid Visa cards)

That does suck but if someone wants to pirate an app even licencing doesn't stop them as there is an app that apparently patches licence checks.
It is so easy for even a non root and new user to find cracked apps, I have seen links on here and even on peoples facebook sites, it's got to the point where people can just browse a webpage and click a link to get the cracked version of an app.
Unfortunately if someone wants to crack it they can. Unless you could implement your own security check somehow, something obfuscated in the code, licencing is the only alternative as it would stop people using backed up cancelled versions at least.
Unfortunately it seems a lot of people just don't want to pay for apps.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk

also have to look at both sides. some people just refuse to pay for **** whatever it is, or get it as cheaply as they can. being android apps, the free route is how they're going to go. but the other side, you hsould be grateful for all the people that do pay. they're the ones helping keeping google, open source, android and everything in between chugging along. open source is the future and you can tell every corporation i said that. and thanks for you your work even though i've never used it.

jago25_98 said:
...
Also just to make that point again, if one does not believe in property then inconveniently there is no moral crime here. I suggest learn to live with this and go with the flow
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There is plenty to disagree with in your post as it all seems like an attempt at rationalizing ways to get around the system. This last statement is a ridiculous attempt at summarizing why stealing is OK. Your morals don't define the crime, the law does. Stealing property, physical or intellectual, is not legal and not right regardless of your morals or lack of.
Chad,
I am sorry to hear of your products' abuse. I used your kernels all the time on my Incredible devices and bought IncrediControl to support development. I have purchased many applications just to support development and believe that is the way to get high quality applications.

Piracy is just so damn easy on Android. I know ppl that are doing it who I wouldn't even expect to be doing such a thing. This guy I know love android only because he can get everything free by just googling the apk.

awww thats sad i feel really bad for you!

I've used pre paid visa debit cards to buy apps. You can find them in Any money shop like Cheque cashing places for example. You can even just stick a dicky diver (£5) on them. Perfect for situations like this
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium

Android Malware Scam Nets $265K, Lands IT Execs in Tokyo Jail

I am a Galaxy Note user and it is my first android phone. Love it so far but worry about security sometimes given the permissions are so vague.
Anyway I found this article interesting:
http://blogs.cio.com/mobile-security/17170/android-malware-scam-nets-265k-lands-it-execs-tokyo-jail
What do you guys (and girls) think?
Is this tip of the ice berg type stuff? Or just stuff that porn addicts are going to run into?
Could any AV really have detected and stopped this thing?
Interested in all opinions.
Cheers!

First things first: If you are rooted, use LBE Privacy Guard to add a bit of protection to your phone. That way they can't just send all your contacts out without you knowing about it. Make sure you set individual permissions for every app you install.
Secondly, if I get any annoying notifications, I just uninstall the app that's causing them. Since Android does not execute application code when uninstalling, you don't have to worry about the app trying to break your phone (which is really hard considering the sandbox design of Android) as a final revenge of some sort.
Third, I think most of the articles about malware are pure fear mongering. They are usually posted by AV software makers who want to sell their own products. As long as you stick to the Play Store and always check app permissions, you should be safe. If you start installing any app you find without checking where it came from or what permissions it wants, you will have malware issues soon. Self protection and a little bit of common sense will help you quite a bit in this matter.
Sent from my GT-I9300

Thanks for the recommendation on LBE -- I will check it out.
Yes -- I see most of the high volume posters here say that AVs are a waste of time and system resources.
Permissions can be tricky. Case in point -- I am looking at an anti-theft for my phone and am considering Avast and Cerberus. BOTH are very intrusive (requiring root access for advanced features. Avast is a large and reputable company so that alleviates my concerns a bit. Cerberus is a better developed offering in terms of features and benefits (they have a portal while Avast is still stuck on SMS only management of lost phones). The problem is I know nothing about the company or people behind then and I pretty much have to give them access to my entire phone in order to use all the features. As a relative noob it is really difficult to make an informed decision on whether to give all these permissions or not.

I'm using Cerberus. I've tried it a couple of times, works perfectly. But as always, you never get 100% security.
Sent from my GT-I9300

Yes -- I trialled it and decided to buy yesterday. Features and benefits wise its an easy decision if you want an anti-theft app. I worry a bit though that they seem so small --- I hope they properly secure the infrastructure from which they host all these accounts.
member68 said:
I'm using Cerberus. I've tried it a couple of times, works perfectly. But as always, you never get 100% security.
Sent from my GT-I9300
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