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It may be our fault that a lot of things dont get upgraded to their full potential. I don't mean all of us, I mean those that pirate paid apps. If you worked for weeks developing an amazing game and poured a lot into it wouldn't you be pissed if you saw the APK file on a torrent site 2 days later with a crack? I wouldn't really want to upgrade at that point knowing that my product had reached a massive market via pirating rather than them paying for my hard work. It's just a thought... Pirating paid apps is wrong. Install all the third party apps you want but pay for the apps you need if in fact they are paid apps...
I have no idea where this topic should go so im putting it here.
Ill start off by saying this: I'm a fifteen year old kid with no money, and sometimes I pirate apps. This isn't about piracy like where should i go for it etc. Because i know that is against the rules. I don't have any way to buy apps or i would, im poor and i don't have a credit or debit card to use. So devs aren't losing money by me pirating. And i know its wrong and i shouldn't do it. Its just the only way to get things sometimes.
If you're still reading and haven't already reported me, here is my story.
Last night i was just messing with my phone, playing games and talking to friends. My phone randomly rebooted and started going into a bootloop of sorts; it would start up and i could get to the homescreen but it was almost unresponsive and i was getting a lot of force closes. I couldn't figure out the issue so i did a backup and a data wipe, planning to restore from TitaniumBackup.
That's when i figured out the problem. My sD card had been completely wiped, all 14 gigs of music, videos, important documents, pictures, apps, everything. It was all gone and replaced with 1037 pictures of a penis with a smiley face drawn on it, captioned "**** you mobilism stop stealing from droidfanz" which i have no idea who mobilism is or what droidfanz is.
I ran recuva on the card hoping to find my files somehow but it only found 3000 more of the pictures along with lots of random pictures of porn and concerts and people jumping off of houses onto mattresses.
I guess im mostly making this thread as 1. A shoutout to mobilism, droidfanz, whoever else caused this to say, you're an ass. Piracy is wrong but there are lots of things you could do that aren't going to destroy my life by deleting all of my personal documents. If i had the ability to buy your apps then i would.
2. A notice to other people... Don't pirate. At least be careful because some developers would rather destroy you than just make it so you can't use their app or something.
That's it. Ban me if you want, i figured i should at least get this out there to warn people. Im going to be trying to restore my life for the next few days anyways.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Good you deserved this. You stole apps from devs which is like taking there life. It only seems fitting that a dev returns the favor. Hope you learned. Also invest in a pre load debt card so you can legitimately purchase apps. Being broke is not an excuse for piracy and sure as hell wouldn't stand in court. Look at it this way .99 cents for an app or thousands in fees cause you got caught pirating.
Sent from my futuristic phone
Wow, that's crazy.
Mobilism and Droidfanz are, to the best of my knowledge, warez sites.
Sounds like maybe Droidfaz people are loading files that look like applications, but really are malicious files over to Mobilism in some sort of a war.
Those malicious files could have been further distributed to wherever you go the file from.
I dont agree with you ironlood.
Firstly, fighting fire with fire is not a solution. If someone is doing something wrong, it does not mean that you should do something worse. Revenge is only allowed if it is equal, not worse than the original offence.
Secondly, the OP does not even know if this happened due to a rogue application by a Dev or some hacker at Droidfanz try to get back at mobilism. Its interesting looks like two underground piracy outfits clashing. (I dont know what these sites are, but thats what it sounds like).
I'm not saying piracy is allowed, but lets just not be too anal not to allow extenuating circumstances (although I am not saying this particular case is).
OP, next time stick to free apps only. There is nothing you cant live without.
Wow. I certainly don't pirate apps because I'm a faithful Android fan and truly appreciate the work of the developers. We give them hardly anything for their work so the spare change you pay now and again is well worth it. Sometimes I donate even more after I buy their apps.
That being said, I don't want any chance of this happening to my phone because I downloaded a rogue app that made it to the market or was shared in the community. If someone does that to me, I'll sue them only because I can't physically beat the f*** out of them.
You shouldn't pirate though, bro. Pirate from big corporations like Microsoft as they inflate their prices and can afford it. Don't pirate from the college student who's starving and worse off than you!
bongd said:
Wow. I certainly don't pirate apps because I'm a faithful Android fan and truly appreciate the work of the developers. We give them hardly anything for their work so the spare change you pay now and again is well worth it. Sometimes I donate even more after I buy their apps.
That being said, I don't want any chance of this happening to my phone because I downloaded a rogue app that made it to the market or was shared in the community. If someone does that to me, I'll sue them only because I can't physically beat the f*** out of them.
You shouldn't pirate though, bro. Pirate from big corporations like Microsoft as they inflate their prices and can afford it. Don't pirate from the college student who's starving and worse off than you!
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lol Its like saying steal from the RICH they won't mind it!
Piracy Is Piracy.
But please don't give me the crap that all of you guys are saints...YOU ARE NOT!
@OP That was a very peculiar "virus". The thing i don't understand that doesn't a virus NOT need superuser permissions(ROOT) to access your system??
Money for an Android mobile and a 16 GB SD card but no 99 Cent to buy an app? That's ridiculous.
And that wasn't done by the developer. You caught a Trojan...
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Did you know that if you walked in a store and stole a shirt, you would get arrested? I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't matter if you were rich or poor and whether or not you could afford it. You got what you deserved.
edisso10018 said:
Money for an Android mobile and a 16 GB SD card but no 99 Cent to buy an app? That's ridiculous.
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This is true. You obviously could afford to buy apps if you wanted to, you just don't want to because you can get them for free.
Just for the sake of conversation.
Why is it ok to violate your TOS as well as abuse your carrier by getting around their bandwidth usage requirements and tethering options but piracy off applications is wrong?
Who decides what is right and wrong in this situation? The danger to android isn't merely fragmentation, it is the wild west nature of open source and whether developers will continue to contribute at such a rate knowing that there is no law or protection in place to keep their work as financially viable.
These are topics that android will have to deal with and sort whether it is by google or by the community coming to some sort of developer support agreement.
Really is neat watching an industry find its way. I just hope it doesn't get lost in the process.
thanks for sharing about your misfortunes and hopefully you learned from it! Best of luck!
edisso10018 said:
Money for an Android mobile and a 16 GB SD card but no 99 Cent to buy an app? That's ridiculous.
And that wasn't done by the developer. You caught a Trojan...
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
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That isn't ridiculous. More like my parents saved up to my me a phone as a birthday present, it was free with the special Christmas deal from US Cellular and it came with the card. Both the phone and card were actually free for my parents to buy and were a birthday present for me, we're just paying for the plan and I still have no money to buy apps.
backwoods99 said:
Just for the sake of conversation.
Why is it ok to violate your TOS as well as abuse your carrier by getting around their bandwidth usage requirements and tethering options but piracy off applications is wrong?
Who decides what is right and wrong in this situation? The danger to android isn't merely fragmentation, it is the wild west nature of open source and whether developers will continue to contribute at such a rate knowing that there is no law or protection in place to keep their work as financially viable.
These are topics that android will have to deal with and sort whether it is by google or by the community coming to some sort of developer support agreement.
Really is neat watching an industry find its way. I just hope it doesn't get lost in the process.
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I agree. All the people telling me I deserved it.... yeah you are probably right, I shouldn't have done it but you can't say I'm taking money from the dev because no matter what he isn't going to get money from me because I don't have any to give.
And I'm sure you've all stolen music or used a tethering app or something that isn't legal.
sageDieu said:
And I'm sure you've all stolen music or used a tethering app or something that isn't legal.
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Get a job. You had this coming, as far as I'm concerned.
The whole penis thing might be a little extreme but i guess you deserved it.
What comes around goes around, you steal apps and now you lost everything. Being broke is not an excuse for being a douch-bag and stealing apps. I don't think telling a judge I was broke so I stole it would be a good defense. Not to mention you "stole" an item that is not something you need to live like stealing food not that that is ok either. I hope this was a lesson learned.
sageDIEU, fair play to you for openly telling your story.. you've probably learnt your lesson anyway now, although your reasons are more than dubious (still doesn't make it right in my opinion, just because I've not got the money now or ever to buy a ferrari, doesn't mean I can just go and pinch one)
The only issue I have, is that some developers expect you to pay for a product that has no decent demo. There's plenty of people producing crap apps for android and other OS's and expecting money for it. I've already paid for quite a few apps that have turned out to be a complete waste of money. I'd rather try an app (by whatever means) and then I'll gladly pay the developer for his work if it's a good product, if it's not, it doesn't stay on my phone and the developer won't get my dough.
Just about everyone uses a hacked app for whatever reason in their life. I don't judge anyone for doing so, but you should never ever keep important files on just 1 storage location. You can always lose/break it.
Learn from this!
Try searching for undelete/unformat software. Maybe you will be able to recover some of it. Good luck..
adhikarb said:
lol Its like saying steal from the RICH they won't mind it!
Piracy Is Piracy.
But please don't give me the crap that all of you guys are saints...YOU ARE NOT!
@OP That was a very peculiar "virus". The thing i don't understand that doesn't a virus NOT need superuser permissions(ROOT) to access your system??
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Corporations rob consumers, they're the only ones I would not feel bad about when it comes to pirating. I don't need commercial apps from huge corps most of the time though, outside of an OS. There are usually freeware versions which are better and have direct support from the developer. I'd rather have a free app with customizations and bug fixes from direct developer correspondence than a commercial app from a huge corp in most cases. Wouldn't you?
And **** off with the saint comment. I'm not elitist. I just think if a hard working Joe does a good job, I'd rather commend him instead of some money grubbing corporation. This is a tight community. And would you rather give a friend money or a stranger money? I'd rather give a friend money, any day of the week. Especially if they've developed an app that I use EVERY SINGLE DAY and only paid a dollar or two for!!!!
You guys are so ****ing cheap. End of story. I hope your phones get hacked. There's absolutely no reason to ***** about a dollar or two here and there for an app that you'll use day in, day out.
All of you people giving analogies of 'pirating' with 'stealing' do not know what an IP is. That analogy is WRONG.
Also, you really think rooting your phone and installing custom roms is not a violation?
hav0c said:
Just about everyone uses a hacked app for whatever reason in their life. I don't judge anyone for doing so, but you should never ever keep important files on just 1 storage location. You can always lose/break it.
Learn from this!
Try searching for undelete/unformat software. Maybe you will be able to recover some of it. Good luck..
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Agreed, and I doubt you were punished by the developper you stole apps from.
You should really be carefull on what you install, especially on those uncontrolled warez sites.
ok, first of all I'd like to state that I am not in fact trolling. This is a serious question from one dev to another. I have been devving on android for almost 2 years now and have been devving on wp7 for around 3 months. Studies have shown that despite the clear difference in market share that people who are developing the same app for each OS are making quite a bit more for wp7 and even more for ios of course due to app pirating. I understand why all these rooting and rom apps and over locking apps are made but why would anyone spend all the time to develop a game when the security is so minimal that any app could be either just stolen or given a crack without issue. Its sad really to see developers hard work go unrewarded but app pirating is way too easy. You can go download a folder with 10000 apks of all these different games on a torrent site in about a minute and honestly its sad. I really don't see how android devs survive without ad support.
z33dev33l said:
ok, first of all I'd like to state that I am not in fact trolling. This is a serious question from one dev to another. I have been devving on android for almost 2 years now and have been devving on wp7 for around 3 months. Studies have shown that despite the clear difference in market share that people who are developing the same app for each OS are making quite a bit more for wp7 and even more for ios of course due to app pirating. I understand why all these rooting and rom apps and over locking apps are made but why would anyone spend all the time to develop a game when the security is so minimal that any app could be either just stolen or given a crack without issue. Its sad really to see developers hard work go unrewarded but app pirating is way too easy. You can go download a folder with 10000 apks of all these different games on a torrent site in about a minute and honestly its sad. I really don't see how android devs survive without ad support.
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lol... there are bad people in this world.. and everyone can become a bad person.. so everyone desires to be one? so everyone becomes bad.. nope
k do this.. go to your android market.. search for robo-defence..look at its price.. and look at its downlaods, it will say >500,000 and it cost 2.90 dollars
i think ill do the maths
thats around 1450000 dollars ...
obviously developer actually dint make this much .. but u get my idea.. he made a lot of money .. and if for instance he thought like u .. he would have not made all that money. he dint allow negativity to take over him.
and people who look for un-faithfull means.. find it.. and there are many who know about piracy but they have human values , they always pay.
and trust me there are so many who wodnt even know about where to find these pirated apps .. they actually dont care . These people pay
jags_the1 said:
lol... there are bad people in this world.. and everyone can become a bad person.. so everyone desires to be one? so everyone becomes bad.. nope
k do this.. go to your android market.. search for robo-defence..look at its price.. and look at its downlaods, it will say >500,000 and it cost 2.90 dollars
i think ill do the maths
thats around 1450000 dollars ...
obviously developer actually dint make this much .. but u get my idea.. he made a lot of money .. and if for instance he thought like u .. he would have not made all that money. he dint allow negativity to take over him.
and people who look for un-faithfull means.. find it.. and there are many who know about piracy but they have human values , they always pay.
and trust me there are so many who wodnt even know about where to find these pirated apps .. they actually dont care . These people pay
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You are absolutely right my friend.even though I know where I can find those pirated stuff I bought talking tom, fruit ninja, file downloader plus from the market.respect you in this aspect that people pay
jags_the1 said:
lol... there are bad people in this world.. and everyone can become a bad person.. so everyone desires to be one? so everyone becomes bad.. nope
k do this.. go to your android market.. search for robo-defence..look at its price.. and look at its downlaods, it will say >500,000 and it cost 2.90 dollars
i think ill do the maths
thats around 1450000 dollars ...
obviously developer actually dint make this much .. but u get my idea.. he made a lot of money .. and if for instance he thought like u .. he would have not made all that money. he dint allow negativity to take over him.
and people who look for un-faithfull means.. find it.. and there are many who know about piracy but they have human values , they always pay.
and trust me there are so many who wodnt even know about where to find these pirated apps .. they actually dont care . These people pay
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well I'm on wp7 I i understand paying for apps. I've bought 13 Xbox live titles. Robo defense though has been around since my g1 was still a big device, pirating android apps didn't really start til after the Verizon droid came out and android went mainstream, sure it was there but it wasn't so easy. My stepmom could not navigate Facebook on her computer but she knows how to pirate apps, its made too easy. When I paid 9.99 for zenonia the day it came out and my friend pirated it for free 3 days I i was pretty peeved. These things are just far too easy on android and right now I'm considering if it's worth porting my new RPG over to android or not...
Are you trying to say that you cant pirate wp7 apps? Or that wp7 users have better morals than us droids?
Every platform has piracy. Apologies if it's not right to discuss it here, but jailbreak WP7 and you're free to sideload XNA apps at no cost. Not ethically right, but possible. Exploits will always be found.
It has to do with the user base. As a mass market platform, the vast majority of Android users don't know or care about sideloading applications. You overestimate the lengths people will go to to save one or two dollars. If the right app is available for one click downloading, the convenience outweighs digging around for the right apk file. Same reason why iTunes was so successful in combating music piracy. Make piracy the less appealing option.
When I was a young poor student I was going to the torrent sites for all the software i use. Today i use linux at home( i'd buy a legal os otherwise) and buy all my apps from the market.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA Premium App
aFo3262 said:
Every platform has piracy. Apologies if it's not right to discuss it here, but jailbreak WP7 and you're free to sideload XNA apps at no cost. Not ethically right, but possible. Exploits will always be found.
It has to do with the user base. As a mass market platform, the vast majority of Android users don't know or care about sideloading applications. You overestimate the lengths people will go to to save one or two dollars. If the right app is available for one click downloading, the convenience outweighs digging around for the right apk file. Same reason why iTunes was so successful in combating music piracy. Make piracy the less appealing option.
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Exactly, why bother going to the effort of hunting around the net, finding an old version of the apk, risking warez sites throwing malware etc at you, just to save $1.99
Yes there is piracy of WP7 apps too, and with such a small market share, there's the potential for it to hit developers' incomes far greater. So perhaps the question should be "Why develope for WP7 when piracy can have a greater impact?"
Think about it, if you've got a large enough market share that 10% piracy still leaves you with a large income from legitimate sales, then although it's a pain, it's still making you lots of money, where as if your sales are low due to the few users who own the device you're developing for, you need that 10% to make a reasonable amount as you can't have the same number of sales as the more popular operating systems.
If I sell $100,000 worth of bananas and it turns out $10,000 was actually stolen, then that still leaves $90,000 in my pocket.
But if I sell only $1000 worth of bananas and $100 were actually stolen, then I've only got $900 in my pocket.
I guess because the majority of users will stay pay for a game or app that they want.
It's the same with PC software and games...many people crack and download them for free, but the majority will still pay for them.
You have to jailbreak iOS and WP7 to sideload apps. That means that >90% of iOS/WP7 users will have to pay.
You can sideload apps on Android straight out of the box without rooting, which makes piracy just as easy as on desktop operating systems.
rogier666 said:
You have to jailbreak iOS and WP7 to sideload apps. That means that >90% of iOS/WP7 users will have to pay.
You can sideload apps on Android straight out of the box without rooting, which makes piracy just as easy as on desktop operating systems.
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And yet people are still making computer programs.
To some developers the trade off is worth it even when you factor in piracy. Look at how many indie games don't have drm making an app is pretty much the same. There are enough people who will buy the app to make a living off of
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
ok, that is very interesting
dardragon said:
And yet people are still making computer programs.
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Of course.
Piracy is just a bit of background noise. Most pirates wouldn't have bought the app anyway.
What I get from the people around me, is that if the app is good enough or do fit their needs, they're willing to pay for it.
I like to see it this way:
When I get hungry I go to a vending machine a buy let say a Mars or something for 1 euro.
When I'm bored and I have to wait for a few minutes, I look on the android market and buy a funny game for about that same amount of money.
I hope that other users see it the same way. The amount that an app or game will cost is so small, that most probably will spend more in the weekend on a beer.
An app is not a Mars bar.
Candy bars are not free. If you want a Nuts or a Bounty instead of a Mars you'll still have to pay.
For every paid app there's a free alternative. Usually there are many free alternatives, and the market has a built-in feature to find the free beer.
The Android Market has a "related apps" link. What other markets force their merchants to provide free advertising for their competitors in their very own market stall?
Tricky-Design said:
I hope that other users see it the same way. The amount that an app or game will cost is so small, that most probably will spend more in the weekend on a beer.
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Spot on.
Ive paid for damn near every app on my phone. I appreciate the work and am more than willing to contribute. And still, all in all, ive spent maybe 15bucks total in the past 4months. Seriously, apps are one of the more affordable ( and not to mention hella convenient) luxuries in this day and age(and in this economy).
Try and go see a movie these days? How much?
Go buy a board game at wal- mart? How much?
Go to the arcade? (if you can find one anymore) how much?
Go buy a book at books a million? How much?
xaccers said:
Exactly, why bother going to the effort of hunting around the net, finding an old version of the apk, risking warez sites throwing malware etc at you, just to save $1.99
Yes there is piracy of WP7 apps too, and with such a small market share, there's the potential for it to hit developers' incomes far greater. So perhaps the question should be "Why develope for WP7 when piracy can have a greater impact?"
Think about it, if you've got a large enough market share that 10% piracy still leaves you with a large income from legitimate sales, then although it's a pain, it's still making you lots of money, where as if your sales are low due to the few users who own the device you're developing for, you need that 10% to make a reasonable amount as you can't have the same number of sales as the more popular operating systems.
If I sell $100,000 worth of bananas and it turns out $10,000 was actually stolen, then that still leaves $90,000 in my pocket.
But if I sell only $1000 worth of bananas and $100 were actually stolen, then I've only got $900 in my pocket.
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you should really look at the general profit margins from OS to OS, even your average developer makes more on wp7 than android because as someone already stated, there's a free version of pretty much everything on android and what's not can be pirated. Then there's the fragmentation for every app that was made for 2.1 plus. Sure, you CAN pirate on wp7, its a long, complex process that doesn't work fully on Xbl games and actually requires some knowledge, its not androids out-of-box pirating or iOSes one click jailbreak with everything done for you. Its the only OS that adds some level of complexity to doing such things and that little bit is more than enough for your average user.
Next OS ; WHY CANT I MAKE AS MUCH ON WP7 APPS random_os001 makes more WAHHHH
(YEAR OR TWO LATER~!) RANDOM_os002 WAS RELEASED (os001 sorry ur gonna lose money now unless u try to stick with the pack.)
I just need to vent. I'm a fairly active developer for the android platform. I've created a number of kernel patches and applications that I have released at no charge to the community for about 10 or so devices.
All this I do in my "spare time", which I have very little of because I am a full time professional student who takes on 32 credit hour semesters.
Recently, since my 1994 geo prizm is literally falling apart and I was hoping to scrounge together a little bit of money to get a new car so I don't end up stranded on my way to class, I decided to release a paid application. Fastcharge / Force AC toggle which allows you to toggle on and off the force AC feature. A feature which I have personally implemented and released source patches for on a number of devices.
Not only in every thread where I released the patch on a device did I write up how to toggle the feature through the command line, but I also stated that I also implemented a toggle into my completely free application that you can also download from the market, IncrediControl.
In good faith and knowing how annoying licensing is, I elected to not include licensing in my application. This is a huge regret.
Within a couple days of releasing the application to the market I googled it to see if anyone was talking about it. One of the first links was to a piracy site where a user was requesting the widget, to which another user obliged and posted the apk to a filesharing site. Doing something I never though I would have to do, I filed a DMCA takedown request, which was answered quickly and the app was taken down. Monitoring the thread, every single time a link gets taken down, another user requests the app and the original user reuploads it, most recently to 11 different sites.
So now, after filing dozens of takedown requests. This user has decided to unzip my apk, change out the artwork, and now is going around releasing it as his own work.
Really, all this to avoid paying $1.50 (only ~$1 of it actually going to me) to an individual whose yearly income is low enough that he doesn't have to file taxes?
This disgusts me.
This is even worse than the 50% "order cancellation rate" that the widget has. I'm not stupid, I know exactly what users are doing, but yet initially I was willing to ignore it. But this has gone too far.
What is even the point of pissing off a developer so much that he is considering saying screw the platform all together? It doesn't even make sense. We, the developers improve your devices, generally at little or no cost, and this is how we're repaid. With ~50% of current users of the application having pirated it. To avoid paying just over $1.
Now before someone even counters with the "my area doesn't support paid applications" argument I've actually gladly GIVEN the widget away to a number of users who casually mentioned in the release threads that they couldn't download it for this reason. Not to mention, everyone knows there are apps that unlock the market in these areas to be able to purchase apps.
How much more generous can a developer be than to provide source code patches for a feature, provide information on how to toggle the feature, provide a COMPLETELY FREE way to toggle the feature, and then charge a measly $1.50 for a secondary, slightly more convenient way to toggle.
Yet he's repaid like this .
Of course, this must suck for a developer like you. Unfortunately, it seems to happen more and more often, and all I can really say is:
I would gladly pay a few bucks for an application like IC or BootManager. That BootManager seemed really interesting, but we can't buy apps from the Play Store without CC (and as a 16-year old, I don't have one). I asked the developer if he accepted Paypal, but he didn't.
Don't get me wrong, and this is not an attack to you personally: developers, if you made something really nice, and people will like it, 70% of the people will gladly pay for it, just make sure you allow them to.
Chaosz-X said:
70% of the people will gladly pay for it, just make sure you allow them to.
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I honestly thought this was the case. It's really not. The problem is much worse than that. If 70% of users in the root community paid for apps it would be astonishing. Its made pretty clear by the number of users who download the app, back it up and then cancel the order.
If a 16 year old kid had made me that offer, the e-mail reply I sent would have the apk attached.
Well, that is a real flaw of Android: tweakability is really impressing, but these things make it really difficult to earn some money as a developer.
We have been thinking about anti-piracy measures as well, with stuff such as authentication with a server, and locking down the code and verifying integrity of APKs and stuff to make sure it's really hard to mess with the code, but it's just sad that there's a need for these measures..
The trouble is everything has piracy right from movies to game consoles through to mobiles and music.
I mean the iPhones appstore would be a hell of a lot bigger if there was no jailbreaking and installous.
Every platform has been cracked so you'll get it regardless of what you develop for.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA
I think you know you just needed to vent but can I change your picture.
There are some people in this world who just don't buy the idea of an idea as property. That's not compatible with this business model. That's the first problem.
The next problem is that
there's a million and one apps out there and which one are we going to choose? Where does it start, where does it end? We all have our limits. What's yours?
For me, the app has to be something very unique and possible generate me cash. For example something I use every day at work. If it's something that the phone should do anyway I tend to skip it and save the $1 for the next phone that does it out of the box. Your app is a great thing, but there's many utility apps out there. It just doesn't fall into the kind of thing I'd cave my strict budgeting for. There are people here with a 1000 apps installed and you expect them to pay $1000 in this sense.
Another way would be having utility in the cloud and then the app is free. Another one of course, advertising.
The difference with both of these is we don't need to risk a credit card with the market. That's the main reason I personally haven't bought many apps and I'd imagine it's a problem for minors too.
The very community that allowed us to create the app fails to pay for it's products is like life itself.
I'd say make something for the iphone instead because there's more profit there but that would never have been possible, see what I'm saying? That's the 3rd problem.
So you've got 3 problems there all converging into one big push towards piracy. But remember, can your app assure security that the pirated version cannot for example? This is how one has to think.
In short,
you can't do something and hope to make a bit from it on the side. You got to go out from the start and get the money aspect central from the start. I mean, that's business and of course that's exactly what the android community works hard to free us from.
Still, summarising those 3 points for suggestion:
- offer something free things can't (i.e. security, brand etc) For example, I never run pirated stuff for fear of insecurity on my data whereas I'll try out software that way on an old PC
- can always put a service in the cloud aka the javascript trap
- iphone is there if you want...
- needs to "the one app" a certain person would pay for, not something everyone likes
Also just to make that point again, if one does not believe in property then inconveniently there is no moral crime here. I suggest learn to live with this and go with the flow
I hope google sells PlayStore cards (like itunes cards) that allows user to buy apps, music, movies, books without a credit card. I really want to buy some amazing apps but i dont have a credit card so i just use free apps. I think that if u cant buy an app that cant be a reason to piracy or sidedownload that app.
jago25_98 said:
For me, the app has to be something very unique and possible generate me cash. For example something I use every day at work. If it's something that the phone should do anyway I tend to skip it and save the $1 for the next phone that does it out of the box. Your app is a great thing, but there's many utility apps out there. It just doesn't fall into the kind of thing I'd cave my strict budgeting for. There are people here with a 1000 apps installed and you expect them to pay $1000 in this sense.
Another way would be having utility in the cloud and then the app is free. Another one of course, advertising.
The difference with both of these is we don't need to risk a credit card with the market. That's the main reason I personally haven't bought many apps and I'd imagine it's a problem for minors too.
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The feature is 100% unique and so is the widget. Not to mention, if you didn't want to pay the $1, I provided a free way to toggle the feature in the utility app. The point is, that there is nothing forcing people to pay for the widget to use the feature. But instead of using the free option provided, they not only pirate the paid app, but edit the artwork and release it for free as their own. It defies logic.
Also, ad based apps don't work with the rooted community. I learned that early on. Myfree utility app is ad supported. With over 40,000 installs you would think it would make even a dollar a day. Nope, makes nearly nothing. That's when I realized that the same niche I was marketing to are the same people who block ads. Even if someone didn't want to block ads, they can't install a single ROM that doesn't include an ad blocking hosts file out of the box.
chad0989 said:
[...] How much more generous can a developer be than to provide source code patches for a feature, provide information on how to toggle the feature, provide a COMPLETELY FREE way to toggle the feature, and then charge a measly $1.50 for a secondary, slightly more convenient way to toggle.
Yet he's repaid like this .
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Be sure you're looking at all sides. Yes, you're in a losing war with guys intent on pirating your app. You can't stop them, and well, you goofed on the licensing, so someone will no doubt release the clone.
First of all, don't do the Big Media thing and assume that everybody that pirates your app would have paid for it if it hadn't been available. A lot of folks collect, or just try something once. You'll only work yourself into a funk thinking about all that money you "would" have if only they hadn't been able to pirate it. They wouldn't have. At least not all of them.
More importantly, be aware that placing something out there with value does reach folks that otherwise would have no idea of you or your plight. More than once, I've purchased an app that I don't really need, but found clever and cheap enough I can buy it without thinking about the investment. I've spent more on Android software at $1-15 over the last year than I did over the last 25+ at $30-100 a pop. I've only refunded an app once, by accident.
Finally, be up front about your situation. A guy trying to make do does influence my impulse buying. So does his reputation. If you're doing a lot, be sure that's clear on your app page, and let us know clearly you're the guy that also brought us whatever.
I am curious, though: How much did you actually bring in?
Chad- thanks for telling your story, I agree that you have every right to be disappointed. Especially the buying and refunding, that to me send almost worse because you can't stop dedicated pirating, but I would have hoped the rest would have bought the app.
It's easy to forget the human side of development, so thanks for sharing your side.
Jesus christ Chad. This is f$%&*#@ ridiculous. Probably the best and most generous kernel dev I have ever come into contact with, and people are cheating you out of 1.50. Please don't abandon Android. I need kernels when I get my rezound! but in all seriousness, warez needs to stop.
Sent from my ADR6400L
Yep. Sucks. After getting serious about android , which wasn't too far in, joining with a nexus one and seeing all the free HARD work we get, I definitely try buying stuff I use. If I can't pay sometimes I will see if dev does something else I can donate to. Its an issue I've thought about and part of it really boils down to how sorry people are in general. They want free and cheap. $1 is laughable even when it can be easily had for free. You really should market yourself a bit even though you don't want to. And people should really put a complimentary $5 or so budget a month or more and try to support devs. Maybe if you have something he gave free but has an app you won't use for a buck, buy the dollar app and uninstall after the 15 minute period. Or throw him a 5 through PayPal or something. Its simple really. If these devs don't have to resort to ramen and water they keep dev'ing especially for the community supporting him or her. And if they're eating vegetables and have plenty of red bull money it gives them wings. Otoh, the devs that make us pay to reinstall an app after we bought it on another or lost our phone suck. Balls. Won't buys theirs anymore.
teach a man to fish, you feed him for life. teach a man to fastboot, and you create competency. and less threads on xda.
Maybe you should implement a system like some developers do where you download the app for free with a time limited trail, then they would go to another website to pay for the app to unlock it, and the unlock codes would be unique for every user which would minimize piracy.
Sent from my GT-N7000 Samsung Galaxy Note "Go big or go home" using XDA app
rafa6571 said:
I hope google sells PlayStore cards (like itunes cards) that allows user to buy apps, music, movies, books without a credit card. I really want to buy some amazing apps but i dont have a credit card so i just use free apps. I think that if u cant buy an app that cant be a reason to piracy or sidedownload that app.
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In the Netherlands we have prepaid Visa card.
Works well.
Maybe you google something similar in your own country.
(3V prepaid Visa cards)
That does suck but if someone wants to pirate an app even licencing doesn't stop them as there is an app that apparently patches licence checks.
It is so easy for even a non root and new user to find cracked apps, I have seen links on here and even on peoples facebook sites, it's got to the point where people can just browse a webpage and click a link to get the cracked version of an app.
Unfortunately if someone wants to crack it they can. Unless you could implement your own security check somehow, something obfuscated in the code, licencing is the only alternative as it would stop people using backed up cancelled versions at least.
Unfortunately it seems a lot of people just don't want to pay for apps.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
also have to look at both sides. some people just refuse to pay for **** whatever it is, or get it as cheaply as they can. being android apps, the free route is how they're going to go. but the other side, you hsould be grateful for all the people that do pay. they're the ones helping keeping google, open source, android and everything in between chugging along. open source is the future and you can tell every corporation i said that. and thanks for you your work even though i've never used it.
jago25_98 said:
...
Also just to make that point again, if one does not believe in property then inconveniently there is no moral crime here. I suggest learn to live with this and go with the flow
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There is plenty to disagree with in your post as it all seems like an attempt at rationalizing ways to get around the system. This last statement is a ridiculous attempt at summarizing why stealing is OK. Your morals don't define the crime, the law does. Stealing property, physical or intellectual, is not legal and not right regardless of your morals or lack of.
Chad,
I am sorry to hear of your products' abuse. I used your kernels all the time on my Incredible devices and bought IncrediControl to support development. I have purchased many applications just to support development and believe that is the way to get high quality applications.
Piracy is just so damn easy on Android. I know ppl that are doing it who I wouldn't even expect to be doing such a thing. This guy I know love android only because he can get everything free by just googling the apk.
awww thats sad i feel really bad for you!
I've used pre paid visa debit cards to buy apps. You can find them in Any money shop like Cheque cashing places for example. You can even just stick a dicky diver (£5) on them. Perfect for situations like this
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
We all know how easy it is to cheat developers and find apk's on the internet. Well it seems developers are complaining and if nothing is done then they will focus on the iphone appstore matketplace. More details in this articule http://androidprirates.blogspot.com/
Ever heard of installous on iOS? Piracy will find a way. If most resort to only iOS, chances are piracy on the Apple platform will also skyrocket.
The thing is, trying to fight piracy head on is an uphill battle, and after so many legislations, millions spent on safeguards and lawyers, and bashed sites (megaupload, piratebay?) pirated stuff is as easy to access as before (and for a lot of stuff, its even easier today).
I believe that if piracy is costing so much money, then there's a problem with the business model. Labels and record companies had to accept this when they adapted the napster model to online stores like iTunes and Netflix, and stopped charging ridiculous amounts of money for CD and DVD without added value (remember the last time you paid 30 or 40 bucks for a 10 song CD back in the 90s? Now its usually a buck per song).
Bringing down sites that offer pirated apps will cost more money than what it's worth, it's just information that can and will be put up again in a docen other microsites.
Troughout history it's the black illegal market that has innovated and pushed the legal market fordward to meet people's demands. In this case, i believe a lot of piracy on android is the result of not having alternative payment methods (how i long for iTunes-like prepaid cards on the playstore). Also, such an open source platform could make better use of the add-serving model the internet is based on, after all, that's how Google makes money anyway.
Well it's impossible to stop piracy. They should just make app's cheaper and more people will simply buy it. Profit for everyone.
Don't assume that 100% of pirated app downloads were going to be bought. But the issues facing Android with piracy are no different than Windows for example. Nowadays most expensive Windows programs contain a way of activating online when first installed and some even check the software key when downloading updates. Even with this, there are still pirates that get around activation. But there are still plenty of programs and games being made for Windows even though its had these problems with piracy for decades, despite what "Don't Copy That Floppy" warned. I don't see Android being any different, developers and Google Play will just adapt better app activation.
spunker88 said:
I don't see Android being any different, developers and Google Play will just adapt better app activation.
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Absolutely agree with you on that. The only way to fight piracy is better protection and online activation can improve this situation (like in case with the activation via Steam account for PC games).
Even though there is piracy in appstore , I still think android is much easier to pirate. There is no jailbreaking needed , just one click and install.
There's no point removing sites like this.Pirates are gonna find a way around it. just make apps cheaper and people will buy them
Yeah your right plus the googleplay store isnt good when it comes to refund. You can buy the game save the apk , then get a refund. Its like there is no way developers can win.
I got a question for android developer here on xda-developers , how has piracy effected your games or what do you do to make some money on andriod market.
What are the ways you made money ADs, IAP, etc. Share your tactics to go around piracy!!
A person from india recently commented on my blog that the reason for android piracy in india is there are no ways to pay , so the only choice you have is to pirate games and apps.
Piracy is ultimately inevitable. Trying to stop it is just pointless
Sent from my SCH-I535
True you can't stop piracy but there are signs that piracy on the mobile platforms are slowing down. This was the reason that Installous shutdown because they weren't having as much traffic as they used to.
zarpy said:
We all know how easy it is to cheat developers and find apk's on the internet. Well it seems developers are complaining and if nothing is done then they will focus on the iphone appstore matketplace.
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nobody really cares, Android is primary OS for developing countries, like Brasil, India, China, Africa, east europe & cis, and if google would DRM its Play well ppl in that part of world will turn to some opensource alternatives like Firefox OS, Meego, Tizen etc etc. And Google will find itself with declining android phones sells and even less revenue. It's like with Windows, till Vista it was easy to pirate and B.Gates intentionally did that to grab market share from Apple. And only then, in 8th version they made some good antipiracy lock with addition to cheap affordable price. Now it's easier to pay $70 for upgrade from W7 to W8 than look for loaders and sorts
To combat piracy, provide value added services to legit owners like perhaps a unified scoreboard, gaming social features, and more. Similar to steam.
Also, malware should be encouraged to propagate outside the play store lol
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Markuzy said:
To combat piracy, provide value added services to legit owners like perhaps a unified scoreboard, gaming social features, and more. Similar to steam.
Also, malware should be encouraged to propagate outside the play store lol
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Xparent Skyblue Tapatalk 2
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Dam malware hahaha no that would be going too far but I remember reading a case were a developer uploaded a non-working game to a torrent site to boost downloads.