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WWJD? Ethically Questionable Action...

PLEASE DON"T BASH ME FOR MY CAPITALIST THOUGHTS, HELPFUL CRITICISM WELCOME
Hello Everyone. I've been doing research for the past couple of days and I've noticed that on ebay, a brand new unlocked iPhone 4 is selling for upwards of $1,000 while a brand new Captivate can be had for about $300-400.
I am still within the 30 day return period for my phone. I am thinking about returning my phone, getting the iPhone 4, unlocking it and selling it on ebay, then buying my dearly beloved Captivate for non-contract price on ebay or somewhere else.
By doing this I could make a profit of minimum $200 and max about $500. Are there any laws forbidding this? If not, then it's definitely in a legal grey area. Has anyone out there ever done this before? Thanks for the help
Update 1: Ok, purchased my second Captivate on Ebay for $380
Update 2: Traded in my first Captivate for an iPhone 4. They had to activate the iPhone in store, thus rendering my original SIM unusable and leaving me with a microSIM. I was bummed out. I thought I had to go to an AT&T store for them to transfer me back to a regular SIM. It turns out that microSIMs work in the Captivate! All you have to do is position it right Took me 3 tries to get it to work.
Phase 3: Sell iPhone 4 on ebay for a profit

What laws would prevent you from selling your property? You get the phone subsidized because you pay the 2 year contract. If you are still in your window feel free to do that, if you think it is your best option and you will actually make that amount of money on the phone.

You're not breaking any laws at all, you're maneuvering within your rights. Knock yourself out.

Thank you for the positive feedback, I feel this plan is coming to fruition

Er, I'm not sure why consulting Jesus is necessary. There is nothing morally incorrect about this.
As for legality: In some cases, eBay will prevent you from doing this (they did so with the Xbox 360, Wii, and PS3, I believe), but it is usually due to the companies contacting them and asking them to do so. In other words, it is usually something voluntarily enforced by certain companies for whatever reasons. In most cases, however, they will not do this, and I don't believe they're doing so for the iPhone 4.
I understand there are also some out there who find the concept of buying something then selling it higher elsewhere due to shortages is morally objectionable, but frankly, I haven't heard a good argument for why it is yet.
To get to the point, if you so desire to get an iPhone 4 and sell it on eBay for profit, it is entirely up to you.

good luck being able to unlock the iphone.
the jailbreak is broken on 4.02 and you need to jailbreak to unlock
all phones are shiping at least with 4.02 and soon 4.1

Yea, unlocking it is your main issue.
The only reason the phones that exist sell so high is because they're unlocked... An ATT user won't buy a locked phone for $1000 when they can buy it for $200 from ATT...

WWJD?
Seems o.k. to me...thanks for asking.
Jack

I live by WWZ(Zilch)D. So far I've gotten 2 STD's, bricked my captivate 37 times and it's caught fire (twice). This isn't working out so good for me.

I don't see any reason why this would be morally objectionable or against any laws.
Morally speaking, cell phones are not a necessity, they are luxury, so it is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it; its not like you are overcharging for medicine, food, or shelter.
Legally speaking, you purchased the phone and I am pretty sure it does not say anywhere in the contract that you must keep the phone until your contract is up; or else they wouldn't offer early upgrades since that would endorse contract violations.
And as far as WWJD, he would probably give the phone away for free and buy a new one, and I don't think you want to do that...

Lets get this straight, I'm pretty sure Jesus would use his magic to turn a huge profit and blow it on drugs and hookers. Isn't that what revelations was about? It's been a while since sunday school.

I did this back when I had an iPhone 3g. I sold it when My contract ended to get a backflip for $100 on a new 2 year, then turned around and sold it for $300+, so I had around $550 to play around with, and at&t didn't care.
Also, installed clockworkmod and quickboot on a captivate at at&t today, but didn't have time to root it

I'd say go ahead with it. I mean, $1000 for an okay phone is stupid, but if people are buying it, then it makes them stupid (or ignorant, as they apparently aren't aware of the Galaxy S series). In fact, this sounds like a good idea...I might want to do it!
IMO, the iPhone 4 should sell for around $500 unlocked on eBay...

So you do have a backup phone right?
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Hydrocharged said:
I'd say go ahead with it. I mean, $1000 for an okay phone is stupid, but if people are buying it, then it makes them stupid (or ignorant, as they apparently aren't aware of the Galaxy S series). In fact, this sounds like a good idea...I might want to do it!
IMO, the iPhone 4 should sell for around $500 unlocked on eBay...
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Yeah my projected value of $1000 may seem a bit high, they average around $600-$800 for unlocked 16GB brand new iPhone 4
sevenvt said:
So you do have a backup phone right?
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Ah I foresaw this as a problem as well, I figured I would just purchase a captivate at non-contract price now, and wipe and exchange the original Cappy for the iPhone 4 so I won't go through any withdrawal symptoms while the iphone is selling on ebay. Yeah I'll have to front some money but I should double my investment. Plus, I got $250 for selling my 1 yr old unlocked iphone 3G so I already have some spending money. Man people will pay lots of money for iCrap

Ryukeima said:
Legally speaking, you purchased the phone and I am pretty sure it does not say anywhere in the contract that you must keep the phone until your contract is up; or else they wouldn't offer early upgrades since that would endorse contract violations.
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actually, and correct me if I'm wrong, fairly certain the terms of service for buying a SUBSIDIZED phone (which, if you buy as an upgrade is subsidized) requires you to activate and use it on your line. they claim if you don't use it on one of your lines, they will charge you the difference or equivalent early termination fee.
now for how they enforce that or how often is probably extremely low. for instance, my sister used my mother's upgrade option to buy an iPhone 4 and the AT&T corporate store even did the process for us in the store. clearly they don't genuinely care, but I believe it's within their right to charge you for breaking the terms of the contract.

And then if the iphone doesnt sell and ask those people on ebay are just waiting for rubes? I would be careful of using ebay as a measuring stick for the actual selling prices on the iphone, considering its off contract price.. Edit: nevermind there is none, all contract. I wish you luck with your iphone... Personally if I was going to buy a 1000 dollar phone I just get an ipad, hope no one is that smart
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If I were to buy a $1000 phone, it'd be a Samsung Galaxy S with a bug-free Froyo and without any trace of Touchwiz

I'd definitely do that. I actually did it once with the iPhone 3GS, made a really nice profit. I usually find ways to get my phones for decent prices and save my contract for an iPhone to do what you're thinking of doing.

Hydrocharged said:
If I were to buy a $1000 phone, it'd be a Samsung Galaxy S with a bug-free Froyo and without any trace of Touchwiz
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No no a galaxy tab
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AT&T/T-Mobile merger confirmed???

Just saw a commercial for AT&T where they are literally saying they will have more cell sights once they merge with T-Mobile. I thought this was still in the approval stage??? So was this finally approved? If so, this is really gonna suck!
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It's not confirmed but basically...
It's not confirmed but basically... it's looking like the merger is going to go through... they just jumped the gun, but for good reason the only real opposition they face is Sprint but one company probably won't be enough to mess up the merger, and it may not suck. If they want to keep customers, they have to maintain the quality that people are used to from both companies when they merge them. At first it's gonna be a mess but I think in the long run it's a good thing.

gguy1 said:
It's not confirmed but basically... it's looking like the merger is going to go through... they just jumped the gun, but for good reason the only real opposition they face is Sprint but one company probably won't be enough to mess up the merger, and it may not suck. If they want to keep customers, they have to maintain the quality that people are used to from both companies when they merge them. At first it's gonna be a mess but I think in the long run it's a good thing.
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History doesn't support one company owning 80% of a market being a good thing for consumers.

samnada said:
History doesn't support one company owning 80% of a market being a good thing for consumers.
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+ 1.
Basically, we are about to be stuck between a biopolly as our choice. Sprint is too small to be on the same field as Verizon and at&t-mobile.
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samnada said:
History doesn't support one company owning 80% of a market being a good thing for consumers.
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+ 1
gguy1 said:
It's not confirmed but basically... it's looking like the merger is going to go through... they just jumped the gun, but for good reason the only real opposition they face is Sprint but one company probably won't be enough to mess up the merger, and it may not suck. If they want to keep customers, they have to maintain the quality that people are used to from both companies when they merge them. At first it's gonna be a mess but I think in the long run it's a good thing.
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Also it's not about one company standing in the way. It's about the federal government, the FCC approving the deal. It's about everyday people playing their parts and writing to their congressman and to their senators as I have to tell them that we don't need or want this merger.
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I say suck because I remember when I went through the Cingular to AT&T merger and I was treated like dirt. T-Mobile is one if the last companies I actually don't mind paying every month because of the stellar customer service they provide, and the amazing plan I have. That super limited data plan new iPhone customers get with AT&T is a joke. I am praying for the best, but expecting the worse. Strap in, here we go folks!!
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I really hope that if this does happen we dont have the same awful data plans as the iphone 4. Thats one of the main reasons i didnt go with att.

Face the facts t-mobile is bought and it is what it is don't give me that there not junk call t-mobile if u don't believe it. I called corporate they say bought and will be finalized by the end of the year, they will honor or contracts til there up.
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I have been a t-mo customer and I love the service. When this happens it's going to HUGE change for the current t-mo customers. We as current t-mo customers are not going to be happy.

You have to realize, AT&T didn't force T-Mobile in to this deal. Deutsche Telekom sold T-Mobile U.S. because they didn't have the cash to make it competitive and it was under performing financially. And the deal is officially done. It can become undone if it doesn't get U.S. approval but until and unless that happens both companies are preceding toward closing the deal. I'll bet you too that when T-Mobile discloses their Q2 numbers they're going to be bloody. Q1 was awful and that was with no impact from the merger announcement. Q2's results will help justify the need for the merger and most likely accelerate its approval.
http://www.slashgear.com/t-mobile-u...-as-nearly-1m-subscribers-jump-ship-06150649/

SIGH. I'm contract FREE with tmobile right now. Now undecided whether to run in and get a contract, so I at least have two years locked pricing, or whether I'm going to stand by my previous conviction that I'd never give AT&T any of my hard earned money. At least if I grab a tmobile contract, I can feel like I'm screwing AT&T by paying less for a while. Then I can jump ship once my contract is over.

TMOUS would probably just sell to someone else if the ATT merger was denied or go out of business.
I don't understand why people are so against the merger really. I am happy with TMOUS but understand if they are not profitable enough to survive.
If there is a budget market out there I'm sure some other company will fill in the spot that TMOUS leaves open. If not then it was pretty obvious they they did the right thing.
Its no different that Cable TV companies. Survival of the fittest.

samnada said:
History doesn't support one company owning 80% of a market being a good thing for consumers.
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Your right but the government wouldn't allow that... from what I'm seeing the merger is going to go through, and the infrastructure of t-mobile will split up in some way. The end game for ATT is to acquire all or at the least most of t-mobile cell towers.
The fact is they can make it happen without monopolizing the industry because at the end of the day only certain states are at risk of monopolization.
ATT is not stupidly investing billions of dollars into attempting this merger when they know full well that their major problem preventing them from being okay'd is the fear of monopolization.
When I say Sprint is their major opposition I am stating that they are the ones highlighting the other downfalls besides monopolization

jettrue said:
SIGH. I'm contract FREE with tmobile right now. Now undecided whether to run in and get a contract, so I at least have two years locked pricing, or whether I'm going to stand by my previous conviction that I'd never give AT&T any of my hard earned money. At least if I grab a tmobile contract, I can feel like I'm screwing AT&T by paying less for a while. Then I can jump ship once my contract is over.
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Yea that's probably a good idea. especially if you know for a fact that you can handle the current prices, because when things go through it may get worse or better, I'm highly doubting it will get better though. I would wait at least a year to lock anything in, it's gonna take at least 1 year to 1 and 1/2 before ATT can mess up tmobile rates on plans.

gguy1 said:
When I say Sprint is their major opposition I am stating that they are the ones highlighting the other downfalls besides monopolization
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They also have a lot to gain if the AT&T merger doesn't get approved. They'd be able to buy T-Mobile for a lot less than $39B and they would. Their motive for scuttling the merger isn't because they're concerned about the little people. Once a company's "in play," which T-Mobile is, things can never go back to the way they were. Try to imagine a Sprint/T-Mobile merger with CDMA, Wi-MAX, and GSM. Not pretty.

jettrue said:
SIGH. I'm contract FREE with tmobile right now. Now undecided whether to run in and get a contract, so I at least have two years locked pricing, or whether I'm going to stand by my previous conviction that I'd never give AT&T any of my hard earned money. At least if I grab a tmobile contract, I can feel like I'm screwing AT&T by paying less for a while. Then I can jump ship once my contract is over.
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I did get a new contract with the Sensations and am undecided if I'll stay. It will be difficult paying AT&T anything, even on a lower rate plan. I still have the unlimited data at $25.
It will be interesting to see how AT&T responds to us with contracts.

BarryH_GEG said:
They also have a lot to gain if the AT&T merger doesn't get approved. They'd be able to buy T-Mobile for a lot less than $39B and they would. Their motive for scuttling the merger isn't because they're concerned about the little people. Once a company's "in play," which T-Mobile is, things can never go back to the way they were. Try to imagine a Sprint/T-Mobile merger with CDMA, Wi-MAX, and GSM. Not pretty.
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Yea exactly but that's almost always the case with business... But for them to be successful even with their selfish motives they have to bring legit reasons to the table why it shouldn't go through
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strath said:
I did get a new contract with the Sensations and am undecided if I'll stay. It will be difficult paying AT&T anything, even on a lower rate plan. I still have the unlimited data at $25.
It will be interesting to see how AT&T responds to us with contracts.
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Anyone requiring a GSM phone can't expect to be treated well if/when this merger happens. I'm in that boat, it's sinking and the sharks are circling...

strath said:
I did get a new contract with the Sensations and am undecided if I'll stay. It will be difficult paying AT&T anything, even on a lower rate plan. I still have the unlimited data at $25.
It will be interesting to see how AT&T responds to us with contracts.
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If you got it now then most likely your contract will be up right around the time that Att gets full control over t-mobile... So it shouldn't be too painful for you... But you also have to ask yourself what's the better option... Verizon is probably the only choice but their rates are higher... They do have better quality connection on average though... It's a tuff decision man
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the merging will go through no doubt about it but it's not confirmed publicly yet till next year.got this info from t-mobile corporate master dealers.lots of changes took place in t-mobile since afet the merging possibility news and still changing as we speak.

AT?T deal dead

Just heard on CNN - the deal is dead. They nade the announcement and then said deals latter.
Opps - ? rather then & in title...

Yes, the deal between ATT and T-Mobile is totally dead, killed by the U.S. Justice Department's anti-trust lawsuit. T-Mobile, which is owned by Deutsche Telekom, gets $3 Billion plus some spectrum from ATT as compensation for the deal not going through. Deutsche Telekom wants to sell T-Mobile and isn't investing any more money in it and won't upgrade the network's high speed capabilities which will cause it to lose customers as they switch to other networks to get higher speed data services. T-Mobile will also not be getting the iPhone which will also deprive it of new customers and cause it to lose customers. In spite of the positive spin Pilipp Humm, the CEO of T-Mobile, has promoted "We have an opportunity to write our own future" T-Mobile is in serious trouble.

The next suitor will be Sprint - not sure if that is better or worse for TMO customers.

Beggars1923 said:
The next suitor will be Sprint - not sure if that is better or worse for TMO customers.
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May not be that way.
"Now that the merger has failed, it’s unlikely T-Mobile could court Verizon or Sprint as potential suitors because they use completely different cellphone technologies to service their phones, Mr. Kuittinen said.
He said that T-Mobile must now explore more creative opportunities — for instance, seeking partnerships with media giants like Amazon, Facebook or Google. T-Mobile’s spectrum, not its customer base, is its most valuable asset."
From http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/19/att-t-mobile/?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha26

Does T-Mo have poor service/reception in a lot of areas? It's fine where I live and the price is great, I hope it sticks around for a while. Verizon charges SO much for their plans

xAshxMoneyx said:
Does T-Mo have poor service/reception in a lot of areas? It's fine where I live and the price is great, I hope it sticks around for a while. Verizon charges SO much for their plans
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I have great signal too, or I did before I got the G2X lol... but seriously - I think T-Mobile's "bad reception" compared to other carriers is a complete myth perpetuated by those who feel the need to defend their decision to spend more, and by those who believe that just because they pay twice as much for their cell service that it guarantees them better service. In the "real world" I've seen as many times that I had signal and verizon/at&t customers did not as I have the other way around.

Now TMobile has $4 billion to play with

Jufjufjuf said:
Now TMobile has $4 billion to play with
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http://www.tmonews.com/2011/12/with-att-out-of-the-picture-where-does-t-mobile-go-now/
Only if. It's all going to their parent company, Deutsche Telekom, and they're under no obligation to give a cent of it to T-Mobile US.
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xAshxMoneyx said:
Does T-Mo have poor service/reception in a lot of areas? It's fine where I live and the price is great, I hope it sticks around for a while. Verizon charges SO much for their plans
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I drive a lot between Houston, Baton Rouge and New Orleans and I can go for a long while where I am on "Edge".

Hoping google will buy tmobile but not holding my breath.
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T-Mobile signal is ****ty I am sorry. It depends on location. I lived in Milwaukee WS and its best signal hands down. I moved back to NJ and its same ****ty signal I endured for 10 years.
I have to rely on wifi and if not for that, I have no signal.
T-Mobile signal is ****ty. Again, depends on location. My time in Milwaukee, I was shocked how awesome signal is there.
Again depends on location.
Its where I live, dead zone. Sucks!!!

Yah well instead if this Att should of lobbied to have congress mandate sharing of cell phone towers no matter the carrier who built it. So this way ATT can stop complaining like a girl.
That's what other countries do and their prices dropped and network coverage grew.
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fabricatedhero said:
Yah well instead if this Att should of lobbied to have congress mandate sharing of cell phone towers no matter the carrier who built it. So this way ATT can stop complaining like a girl.
That's what other countries do and their prices dropped and network coverage grew.
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but...but...that would create a fair and competitive market that served the customer! Are you mad?!
Seriously though, the carriers in the US (aside from T-Mobile, who have actually lobbied to get something like this to happen), would HATE this. It would require they actually step up to serve their customer rather than just their shareholders.

The fact is that most companies are blind to what ACTUALLY serves their shareholders. By stepping up to serve their customers, they also step up to serve their shareholders. The fact is that consumers would FLOCK to a Google based cell provider. Google follows a simple model. Take care of their consumers by offering a "low cost" offering then exploiting that for moderate ad shares, and also (most importantly) trying to build upon that offering by moving consumers to their other offerings by true "integration", thereby "owning the house" generating quadruple the original marketshare generating BILLIONS in additional revenue, ie share holder profits. If someone beats Google to the punch on this model in the mobile communications market, they stand to make a MASSIVE profit. Companies simply over complicate economics/marketing.
JaiaV said:
but...but...that would create a fair and competitive market that served the customer! Are you mad?!
Seriously though, the carriers in the US (aside from T-Mobile, who have actually lobbied to get something like this to happen), would HATE this. It would require they actually step up to serve their customer rather than just their shareholders.
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Sent from my LG-P999

jeremyritzmann said:
The fact is that most companies are blind to what ACTUALLY serves their shareholders. By stepping up to serve their customers, they also step up to serve their shareholders. The fact is that consumers would FLOCK to a Google based cell provider. Google follows a simple model. Take care of their consumers by offering a "low cost" offering then exploiting that for moderate ad shares, and also (most importantly) trying to build upon that offering by moving consumers to their other offerings by true "integration", thereby "owning the house" generating quadruple the original marketshare generating BILLIONS in additional revenue, ie share holder profits. If someone beats Google to the punch on this model in the mobile communications market, they stand to make a MASSIVE profit. Companies simply over complicate economics/marketing.
Sent from my LG-P999
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We are pretty much in agreement, my post was more than a bit tongue-in-cheek. I'm a big fan of moving to the way most of Europe does their cell phones:
1. Usually the government owns the towers and the cell providers lease those towers in order to provide the actual services to the customer. This helps to remove the problem of technology and coverage divisions that cell companies have in the US and is one of the main reasons switching carriers is far easier there.
2. No annual contracts. US customers are spoiled on the false idea that their smartphones are 'free' or <$200 when in actuality they are paying out of the nose for vastly over-inflated contracted plans that are anywhere from double to triple that of any cell service in Europe in order to subsidize their phones. This isn't helped by the fact that it seems the public can't get over the idea that paying $400-600 for the full price of the phone would amount to them saving thousands of dollars over a couple of years, even if they bought another phone during that time. Another factor that makes switching carriers easier and helps promote competition on a service level. Also, not subsidizing phones means that carriers lose less money buying up phone stock they never sell (and have to make up by making the contracts more expensive and charging for stupid things like tethering!).
3. Well I guess I kind of ate up all of my points in the first two by elaborating a bit too much.

Um I seen somewhere that dish is looking into it.
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JaiaV said:
2. No annual contracts. US customers are spoiled on the false idea that their smartphones are 'free' or <$200 when in actuality they are paying out of the nose for vastly over-inflated contracted plans that are anywhere from double to triple that of any cell service in Europe in order to subsidize their phones. This isn't helped by the fact that it seems the public can't get over the idea that paying $400-600 for the full price of the phone would amount to them saving thousands of dollars over a couple of years, even if they bought another phone during that time.
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+1, Tmobiles value plan is at least $25/month cheaper than the regular one, which amounts to $600 over the 2 year contract. I know I've never gotten a $600 phone for free.

xAshxMoneyx said:
+1, Tmobiles value plan is at least $25/month cheaper than the regular one, which amounts to $600 over the 2 year contract. I know I've never gotten a $600 phone for free.
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Unfortunately most people can't do basic math and still opt for the $250 phone and Classic (non-value) plan. In effect paying hundreds of dollars more over the life of the contract. Back when the Even More Plus first rolled out I still worked at tmo tech support and you'd be surprised how many people were absolutely livid that they couldn't get a discounted phone after being a customer for X years, AND have the Even More Plus... they thought they were being ripped off by being asked to pay for the phone.
Honestly, the failure of the American cell phone consumer to be able to do BASIC MATH is one of the reasons T-Mobile is failing. I have friends who honestly believe that Verizon gave them a better price.

Its beyond them doing basic math. Our culture in the US is always about the short term when comes to saving money, never the long term. Interest only mortgages is a PRIME example of that. No pun intended.
lotherius said:
Unfortunately most people can't do basic math and still opt for the $250 phone and Classic (non-value) plan. In effect paying hundreds of dollars more over the life of the contract. Back when the Even More Plus first rolled out I still worked at tmo tech support and you'd be surprised how many people were absolutely livid that they couldn't get a discounted phone after being a customer for X years, AND have the Even More Plus... they thought they were being ripped off by being asked to pay for the phone.
Honestly, the failure of the American cell phone consumer to be able to do BASIC MATH is one of the reasons T-Mobile is failing. I have friends who honestly believe that Verizon gave them a better price.
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Why buy an unlocked phone over a carrier phone?

Unless of course you want to use it on different networks, ie international.
Carrier phone comes with those fat discounts, so i don't know why anyone would ever PREFER to pay full retail?
Yet people say they prefer to do it.

Dillsnik said:
Unless of course you want to use it on different networks, ie international.
Carrier phone comes with those fat discounts, so i don't know why anyone would ever PREFER to pay full retail?
Yet people say they prefer to do it.
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The unlocked international versions are often available before the US carriers release their modified versions. They also often have higher resale values for people who like to switch phones a lot.

ok, i was assuming both versions are available. but higher resale makes some sense, although that alone doesn't add up to not wanting carrier brand.
Maybe less bloatware, faster updates, etc?

Less bloatware is a big part of it, I think, but there are also contractual benefits. It's sometimes easier to cancel a plan without paying a hefty termination fee if you paid for the phone outright. Additionally, certain plans (e.g. T-Mobile's "best plan ever") do not provide subsidies for good phones (e.g. HTC Sensation). Basically, it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. You can buy the phone outright and then get a cheaper plan or buy a subsidized phone with a more expensive plan. If you plan on keeping your phone more than 2 years and/or switching carriers, it's a good investment to get the cheaper plan.

I don't even think they have less bloatware, or get faster updates. They can't update their phone until a carrier somewhere releases a build for that phone. Unless they are going off an ASOP build which still requires that devices drivers to be released. I've never had an unlocked phone myself. I assume it would also make it easier to travel internationally, but if the carrier had already released their version of the phone I wouldn't go and buy an unlocked version.

I buy unlocked usually because I like to get the hottest devices first and they are usually released overseas before coming to US; Galaxy S2 for example. I am also not on a contract.
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If you're talking about new phones, the difference is the 2 yr contract. If you're talking about used phones, the difference is probably about ten bucks (or whatever the cost is to get an unlock code).

Unbranded phone=$10 unlimited data on at&t.

Dillsnik said:
Unless of course you want to use it on different networks, ie international.
Carrier phone comes with those fat discounts, so i don't know why anyone would ever PREFER to pay full retail?
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Sometimes (subsidized price + contract cost over 2 years) actually costs more, or negligibly less than (unlocked price + equivalent prepaid cost over 2 years). That was the case with me, and it depends mostly on what plans the carrier offers, as well as what promotions happen to be on at the time. When that happens, a contract is just plain not worth it.
Even if it is slightly or somewhat worth it (which is the most it's going to get), that's still 2 years of vendor lockin you have to consider.
And, of course, even the option of using your phone internationally is worth something, even if you have no actual plans of going yet.

The reason people get unlocked phones vary, but most can be classified under these:
- Phones that are not available in a given market
- Update without a two year commitment to a given carrier
- Cheaper to get a used phone on ebay/amazon than a new one from the carrier if you are not due for an upgrade
- Unlocked bootloader, rooted, or bloatware free. -- As most carriers nowdays want their phones locked.
- Possible higher resell value

allows you to use other carrier sim cards. Good if you travel and use different country sim cards on other networks.

The first step is understanding that you don't get a "fat discount" when buying a carrier branded phone. You end up paying more than the full price of the phone in most cases.

They get updates first look at the international phones and compare them to ours. The SG got the update over seas to gingerbread and here in the states it took forever.
sent from my Virtuous Unity

•Unlocked to use anywhere
•More resale value
•No bloatware from carriers
•Faster / more direct updates without needing carrier approval
•Usually more dev support since carriers variants isolate models from one another
•Availability much before carrier versions (mostly, depends on exclusivity)

There was a time when carriers would impose restrictions on features which were stock from the manufacturers and threaten them with not buying handsets if they did not implement these restrictions. For example, features like a music player would be locked out in favor of the carrier's music service and music player to help support their store. The phones would be heavily branded and often hardware locked out of even flashing to a different firmware/rom.
If you do a present value of all the payments you will pay to the carrier for the life of the contract + the cost of the "discounted" handset you have to pay today, you will find in many cases the cost ending up greater than buying the unlocked phone outright. I suppose time-value of money plays into it... (but not really with this economy)

its not too hard to unlock your own phone, also quite a few phones are global phones, the carrier branded ones just don't say that you can use them overseas

And they don't put crap in them to kill things. When you are not locked in for 2 years they tend to be more helpful. Unlike the droping 4g LTE big red. I am starting to think most of the AT&T hater's had a 2g iphone and got a droid and now think there is no better than the big red, becuase TV SAID SO 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times. There ads are starting to make me sick, becuase they lie.
End of post.

After reading things like this I'll never buy a phone from a carrier again. I just don't want to be help to some absurd plan when much cheaper ones are available.

no choice
I live in Venezuela, and if I want to get a decently priced smartphone, my only choice is to buy an unlocked one over amazon or ebay if I cant get some dollars and a courrier service.
For example, you cant get an USED LG Optimus 2X here in my country at 4.500bsF, that's like 500$.
Nowadays, the smartphone market is growing a lot here, taking apart the fact that we have the greatest blackberry users per capita in South America.
Something like that happens in Brasil, Argentina etc.

Dillsnik said:
Unless of course you want to use it on different networks, ie international.
Carrier phone comes with those fat discounts, so i don't know why anyone would ever PREFER to pay full retail?
Yet people say they prefer to do it.
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Because those "fat discounts" are short term - the discounts are usually lost over the course of the contract you have to sign. You save a few hundred initially but end up paying a few hundred more by the end. I say 'usually' because it's not especially common in the U.S.

new AT&T upgrade plan (AT&T "Next")

http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/16/att-next-upgrade-program/
AT&T:
http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/next.html?sf15024656=1#fbid=PD71HEOU89k
Interesting...
Also... top comment on Engadget:
OK, so I work for ATT I'll just clarify this for you guys a little. This is what we reps have been told. Basically whatever the normal price plan is for the phone you add 1/20th of the phones price to that normal plan pricing. After 12 months minimum but before 20 months you can choose to trade in your old phone and get a new one. There are no down payments for either phone so there is that, you can get an iphone 5 64GB for no money down if you have good credit XD. BUT you would then pay an extra 40 some per month to make up for it. The average installments would be $20 with smartphones usually costing about 400 or more so after 12 months you would have paid $280 or more and if you sold your old phone you could buy a new one.
POINT: This is a blatant rip off, save up your money those months and sell the phone you save money, the price you pay for this simply gives ATT a larger profit, they will then resell the old phones you turn in which by the way have to be in perfect shape or there will be an additional charge for repairs. Anyone with sense will no do this.
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Oh and how this effect the unlock policy, currently any non iphone can be unlocked after 90 days of service in good standing. On this ATT NEXT plan you cannot unlock it until after the full 20 months.
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FAQ
What is AT&T Next?
AT&T offers you another choice for smartphone and tablet pricing. AT&T Next is a new way for you to get a new device every year. You have the choice after 12 monthly payments to trade it in for a new device or choose to keep it, and after 20 months, there are no more installment payments. No down payment, activation, upgrade, or financing fees are required — only sales tax on the device is due at time of purchase.
How can I take advantage of AT&T Next?
Visit att.com or a participating AT&T Company Owned Retail location to learn more about AT&T Next and to find out if you are eligible.
Are there additional charges?
Sales tax is charged on your new phone or tablet at the time of sale. There's no down payment and no activation fee.
Is a contract required with AT&T Next?
AT&T Next requires that you sign an installment agreement to pay for the device over 20 monthly payments. If you cancel your wireless service, the remaining unpaid balance on the device is due. A Wireless Customer Service Agreement (voice and data service) is required.
How many AT&T Next installment plans may I have on my account?
There's a limit of two per account.
What devices are eligible for AT&T Next?
At this time, customers can buy a smartphone or tablet with AT&T Next.
Do I own the device? Or is this a leasing offer?
The device is yours and you’re responsible for 20 monthly payments. You’re also responsible for any loss, theft, or damage to the device — both during the installment agreement period and after. We recommend you purchase the optional Mobile Insurance to protect your investment.
How do I get a new device every year with the program?
After your twelfth (12) installment payment, but before your twentieth (20) installment payment, if your wireless account is in good standing you may trade in the device. The device must be fully functional and in good physical condition. Select a new smartphone or tablet and a new 20-month agreement will start.
When I trade in my device after 12 months and get a new one, what is the length of my new installment plan?
When you trade in your device, no further installments are billed for the original device. You will start over with a new 20-month installment plan on your new device.
Will I be able to pay off this device early?
Yes, you have the option to pay off your installment agreement, but the full outstanding balance will be due immediately.
What payments are due if I cancel AT&T Next?
The full outstanding balance on your installment agreement becomes due.
What if I don't want to trade in my device after 12 months and I want to keep it?
You have the choice to either trade your phone in or keep your phone. If you keep it, after 20 months, it’s yours and no more installment payments are required.
What if my phone is damaged (e.g. cracked screen)? Can I still trade it in after 12 months?
Yes. However, we reserve the right to charge a fee to repair the device and return it to fully functional and good physical condition.
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This is a ripoff. Why is everyone trying to follow TMobile's BS? There's a reason why offer crap service.
I'm going to stick with my normal 2 year upgrades. AT&T has always offered me an early upgrade from 6 months-1year at the 2 year price. If that goes away and I have to put up with this BS, I'll be pissed.

mr_blanket said:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/16/att-next-upgrade-program/
Interesting...
Also... top comment on Engadget:
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Interesting... I called this when T-mobile started this. It is almost better to pay full price for phones now... If you sell your current phone 300-450 and put the rest on a credit card you will still be saving money or just pay it up front. But the cancel at any time is pretty cool idea
But this may lead us to buy unlocked devices and not deal with locked bootloaders....
AutoUnion said:
This is a ripoff. Why is everyone trying to follow TMobile's BS? There's a reason why offer crap service.
I'm going to stick with my normal 2 year upgrades. AT&T has always offered me an early upgrade from 6 months-1year at the 2 year price. If that goes away and I have to put up with this BS, I'll be pissed.
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Click to collapse
I am willing to bet that soon that will go away... Not sure how soon but eventually

joshuadjohnson22 said:
I am willing to bet that soon that will go away... Not sure how soon but eventually
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Yeah, this sucks. I might just start paying full price and sell the old phone. Much easier.
some quick calculations
S4 is $32/month. Would have paid $384 in a year.
If I just bought a Galaxy S4 for $629. I could sell it in a year for ~$400, so $229.
or
use your upgrade. $149 is what I spent on my Galaxy S4. Sell it for $450 in the Fall, pick up GNote3 on CL, etc. $500-550. Only out about ~$100-150. Sell GNote3 in the Spring for $450-500 for GS5.

AutoUnion said:
Yeah, this sucks. I might just start paying full price and sell the old phone. Much easier.
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same here, as I posted above... why not get the international unlocked version and be able to flash out of the box? Now with international phone having LTE I don't see a need to get carrier phones if it will cost us so much

joshuadjohnson22 said:
same here, as I posted above... why not get the international unlocked version and be able to flash out of the box? Now with international phone having LTE I don't see a need to get carrier phones if it will cost us so much
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I wonder if this also means that those early upgrades they used to give to iPhone owners are gone to. I have iPhones on the other lines on my family plan, so if I don't have an upgrade, I could bank on using one of those

AutoUnion said:
I wonder if this also means that those early upgrades they used to give to iPhone owners are gone to. I have iPhones on the other lines on my family plan, so if I don't have an upgrade, I could bank on using one of those
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I think those things will die off slowly. But I doubt it will be right away

I'm curious to see what else they talk about at their keynote.
I would really like them to do what US Cellular did. They brought back Unlimited Data, but it's ONLY valid for the 2 year contract length. After that, it's gone. If you try to break your contract, the ETF is $$$$. Let them charge $40/month for it. Still worth it over Sprint/TMobile, IMO

AutoUnion said:
I'm curious to see what else they talk about at their keynote.
I would really like them to do what US Cellular did. They brought back Unlimited Data, but it's ONLY valid for the 2 year contract length. After that, it's gone. If you try to break your contract, the ETF is $$$$. Let them charge $40/month for it. Still worth it over Sprint/TMobile, IMO
Click to expand...
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It will be "Blah Blah Blah we want more of your money... Blah .... we will take it with force if we have to.... Blah .... what are you going to do about it... Blah Blah.... bend over and take it.... Blah I will be charging you a fee for listening to this keynote it will appear on your bill as a $10 Keynote charge... This will be added to your monthly bill to pay for future keynotes"

I think it's nice for it to be an option. Myself, I just buy out of contract if given a choice. It's nice to offer this and the traditional plan so some people who cant afford a phone outright can get one.
All the carriers new deals are all including trading in smartphones as of late. Usually you get ripped off as you can sell it yourself for more $. Selling my year and a half old iPhone 4S almost paid for my S4 in full out of contract..

20 month = same as unlocked upfront
12 month and upgrade to newer phone = 60% of cost one year lease... what a ripoff
Well it is AT&T

AT&T users better read the fine print before rejoicing. You’re still paying the same high monthly contract price for your no-contract plan. AT&T is double dipping into your wallet when those contract monthly plans has a subsidized phone calculated into them but you’re paying full price for the phone.
AT&T Mobile No Contract.
$70/m unlimited talk.
$20/m unlimted text.
$30/m 3GB data plan.
$32/m Samsung S4 monthly payment Next program.
+$10/m device insurance.
——————————-
$162
Compare with T-Mobile, and the price you pay for unlimited talk, text, and true unlimited, you’re just paying for the talk unlimited portion on AT&T. Not to mention, the insurance is built into the Tmo Jump program.
T-Mobile
$50/m unlimited talk/text.
$20/m unlimited data plan.
$20/m Samsung S4 monthly payment.
$10/m Jump program (includes premium device insurance).
——————————-
$100/m

I guess Att thinks we can't do simple math.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium

This is the most telling story I've seen about it so far...
http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/16/4528404/att-next-phone-upgrade-plans-a-huge-ripoff

mr_blanket said:
This is the most telling story I've seen about it so far...
http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/16/4528404/att-next-phone-upgrade-plans-a-huge-ripoff
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We all needs to repost this. Att needs to know we are not going for this crap.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium

nthknd said:
We all needs to repost this. Att needs to know we are not going for this crap.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium
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Absolutely. Repost, Facebook, Tweet, Link, +1, etc. Maybe this will cause a Xbox One-like backlash.
What I hate the most is that the majority of the people on this forum are stuck with AT&T until 2015 :crying:

You guys do realize this is an OPTION right? They are not forcing you to take this deal. Verizon also has a deal starting like this one as well. At least att is not forcing those with unlimited data to lose it when they want an upgrade like big red does. Att has always given OPTIONS unlike other carriers who force things down your throat. Remember that when you start typing your rant about how att sucks.
Also when was anything perfect at launch? I'm sure as time goes on and voices are heard, this plan will get made to make more sense.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app

While it is an option, for now at least, so many people will fall for this scheme. People like my iPhone loving mother who is persuaded by "as seen on TV" adds will probably fall for this no matter what I say. Or teenage girls who beg their parents for the latest and greatest.
All they have to say is "NEW DEVICE EVERY YEAR". That's it. People will be overjoyed and they will make billions. Only our small subset of users will actually do the math.

Yeah att is simply bartering...if your selling something at a garage sale you always start with a high price and slowly lower until you reach an agrrement...att wants to make as much money as possible so they will start high and hopefully lower to find a price they still make profit and that people will go for...and as stated this plan is only a choice, we arent being forced to use the next plan
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

I have a $285 etf right now
Say I early upgrade to a s3 mini at $12/mo ($250 full price) with the next promo. I can just pay off the $250 and leave with no penalty? Cheaper than paying my etf and I can sell those phones as new because I wouldn't keep them.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk