Related
Hi all,
I've posted about this trash before but now it is really annoying me.
We all do our work here for free and for the better good of the community and those who use these PDA's.
I am so sick of people abusing our work and selling it on Ebay without even a thank you let alone any form of re-imbursement for the hard work we do.
I know it's not piracy, and what we do here is pretty much open-source if you like, but this stuff is really getting on my nerves.
Everytime I go on Ebay and search for PDAs the same trash pops up, some idiot making a fast buck off the back of hard working Developers like us.
The guy is selling a Uni with Laurentius's and mine Rom on it and trying to make an extra £50- £70 for our hard work, since the Uni is normally going for between £160- £200 these days.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....ndexURL=4&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting
I have no idea what we can do about it, I am reporting him to Ebay and would be gratefull for the support of the community in doing the same with this guy and others like him.
It ruins this community and really winds me up to the point that I wonder if should even bother any more.
Cheers,
A very p....ssd off Beasty
I am more surprised that people actually paying to buy ROMs which are available for free. Beasty maybe you should be listing the ROMs since people don’t really want to hit the donation icon here. And I will give you a good feedback to get you started.
beast0898 said:
Hi all,
I've posted about this trash before but now it is really annoying me.
We all do our work here for free and for the better good of the community and those who use these PDA's.
I am so sick of people abusing our work and selling it on Ebay without even a thank you let alone any form of re-imbursement for the hard work we do.
I know it's not piracy, and what we do here is pretty much open-source if you like, but this stuff is really getting on my nerves.
Everytime I go on Ebay and search for PDAs the same trash pops up, some idiot making a fast buck off the back of hard working Developers like us.
The guy is selling a Uni with Laurentius's and mine Rom on it and trying to make an extra £50- £70 for our hard work, since the Uni is normally going for between £160- £200 these days.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....ndexURL=4&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting
I have no idea what we can do about it, I am reporting him to Ebay and would be gratefull for the support of the community in doing the same with this guy and others like him.
It ruins this community and really winds me up to the point that I wonder if should even bother any more.
MODS PLEASE STICKY THIS
Cheers,
A very p....ssd off Beasty
Click to expand...
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I don't wish to sell them, and besides that it would be illegal to do so.
My point is that we do this for free and scum bags try to make money for nothing from others contributions to this community.
I know how stupid Microsoft will look if people start selling their modified ROMs. But I did discover one thing when you are pissed you do lose your sense of humor.
beast0898 said:
I don't wish to sell them, and besides that it would be illegal to do so.
My point is that we do this for free and scum bags try to make money for nothing from others contributions to this community.
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Yes... a lot of time goes in cooking\developing rom's and we are offering this ROM's for free here. How would you feel if we stop doing this!
I have no good words for people who are selling our ROM's on Ebay.
I might have to think about that if you stop making ROM how will I feel? I think then I will have no good words for you. Just kidding I guess then I will be disappointed because I keep coming back to your ROMs and you don’t even appreciate that I go through all that trouble and flash your ROMs. A little bit of appreciation will be nice from you people. No, seriously I do appreciate all the time you spend her and then even let people criticize you. If I was you I would just say “MAKE YOUR OWN BLOODY ROMs IF YOU CAN DO a BETTER JOB”.
Laurentius26 said:
Yes... a lot of time goes in cooking\developing rom's and we are offering this ROM's for free here. How would you feel if we stop doing this!
I have no good words for people who are selling our ROM's on Ebay.
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And I do appriciate you flash our ROM's my friend
Thank you!
Regards,
Leo
faraz.riaz said:
I might have to think about that if you stop making ROM how will I feel? I think then I will have no good words for you. Just kidding I guess then I will be disappointed because I keep coming back to your ROMs and you don’t even appreciate that I go through all that trouble and flash your ROMs. A little bit of appreciation will be nice from you people. No, seriously I do appreciate all the time you spend her and then even let people criticize you. If I was you I would just say “MAKE YOUR OWN BLOODY ROMs IF YOU CAN DO a BETTER JOB”.
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Support
Hi Beasty,
I'm behind you guys 100% on this one, if you come up with a way we can all help then let us know. I guess this arse wipe is a member of this group, can we have him or them removed from it to start with. It might not be illegal to sell it on eBay, but it must be some kind of fraud. As a paramedic I am (when given permission) able to use a persons medical history to further my knowledge, but I've no right to sell it in a book on EBAY if you see my point!!!
Kind regards
Jay
THANK YOU
i would be very pissed off too if i'd work my butt off to get nothing some times not even a "thank you" and other motHer%$$·$% is getting the money for my hard-work. if anyone can come up with some good ideas to avoid this type of persons here in this wonderful comunity would be great (maybe get his IP address somehow and ban him/her for good)
i have no words for all you people that spend many hours cooking and developing, hours that maybe your wife, husband or kids would need or deserve but just think about the 1000s of happy faces we have everytime we flash you piece of artworks or all the countless hours we wait for a new ROM to come out or just the big smile we have in our faces everytime the flash is finished and we see the new ROM for the first time. Just think that he/she migth be making a few bucks, but you have the appreciation, respect, knowledge and the love of many (maybe thousands) of people every single day with every new ROM . To all this you may have notice that english is not my maiden language(im from mexico) but i do want to show you my respects, i wish i could donate but in the country i live...life is not easy and all i can do is say...... !!!!!GRACIAS!!!!!!
BEST REGARDS. Erik.
Although I do agree with Beast on this issue - I don't think anyone (other that a Developer) can really comment on it.
Consider, most developers for the Universal have been using my hosting - which I welcome them to do. However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Anyway, thats my 2 cents (Australian Cents ) on the issue - and I apologise to no one that I may have offended
So Disgusting
This is very disgusting if anyone is doing so........as a members of this community we should really stop this .This forum is for us and we should appriciate our developers for giving us such ROM's........which they develope by contributing their valuable time for us.
I really feel very sad about it.
Hi all,
I have no desire to make money from my work here, or demand donations for anything I contribute, all I request is the common decency from fellow human beings not to ruin this community by exploiting others.
TehPenguin does have a point though, his hosting does cost him money and adds great value to this community, the FTP Server and BugTracker are invaluable (when used correctly) and TehPenguin and this site could really use donations to help them keep running costs down.
TehPenguin said:
Although I do agree with Beast on this issue - I don't think anyone (other that a Developer) can really comment on it.
Consider, most developers for the Universal have been using my hosting - which I welcome them to do. However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Anyway, thats my 2 cents (Australian Cents ) on the issue - and I apologise to no one that I may have offended
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I feel so ashamed of myself that I have decided not to download any ROM from your domain for one week. Seriously, did people have a bad weekend because everyone seemed to be pissed off? I am disappointed that you called me a hypocrite because I have been accused of this before and I’m anxiously waiting for someone to come up with something new. Everyone whom posted in this thread will have to send a handsome amount of donation to the “hosting dude” starting with Beasty who started this thread. Honestly, I do agree people should pay a little back to help those who are trying to help others. I think even if everyone pays as little as US $1 it will make a huge difference. I am surprised myself people come up with so many ideas how to change the ROM (Whisper: Most of them are lame) and they are more like demanding. I really don’t get why developers put up with that and I told Beasty that why he’s apologetic.
I do agree that we should do a little something to help. So what you need me to do?
TehPenguin said:
Although I do agree with Beast on this issue - I don't think anyone (other that a Developer) can really comment on it.
Consider, most developers for the Universal have been using my hosting - which I welcome them to do. However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Anyway, thats my 2 cents (Australian Cents ) on the issue - and I apologise to no one that I may have offended
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Why don't you guys make a solution
Hey beast,
Why don't you developer make a credits section in your roms that is listing your names and all your comments.
I'm not a developer, but let me give an idea, why don't you create a program, that makes a watermark comment on the todays screen, which makes it clear to everyone that this rom is free and nmt for sale, and calling everyone that purchase this rom to contact you guys through the xda-developers web site.
it is just an idea, and I'm sure that most of the guys here is supporting you and the other developers for the great work
TehPenguin said:
However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
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Ive found the same when i set up htc-devs.com (when the ftp was wiped of m$ files)
TehPenguin said:
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
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Click to collapse
I concur, In since i started developing my total donations are barely double digits (<£50) people think that things should be handed to them on a golden platter, and when they are not 100% to thier satisfaction that you shoudl put it right, immediately, but they would never consider donating
my 2p
I am not a developer too..or not considering me in that sort of group,because of the amount of time I spend in this (about 1-2hrs a week).
Just customized a Rom to my needs and I will be glad to share if someone wants it,freely!
Every person needs to find a good balance to Private life and Rom Developement,etc.. If this development is such time consuming,calm down..review your time!
Don't pretend donations (they are always appreciated but not to be Pretended or cast something up)
Development (and programming in general) in this forum are passions that we share together..
TehPenguin said:
Although I do agree with Beast on this issue - I don't think anyone (other that a Developer) can really comment on it.
Consider, most developers for the Universal have been using my hosting - which I welcome them to do. However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Anyway, that's my 2 cents (Australian Cents ) on the issue - and I apologise to no one that I may have offended
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I don't think ANYONE is being a hypocrite on this thread, we are just supporting developers who have had their work abused and used by another party. I have the greatest admiration for the clever people who develop the amazing Rom's for our chosen PDA, without them our universals would now be an out of date device. I personally provide files and work to the LIMIT of my own abilities, and any rom I feel worth using, then I donate to the developer. I feel thats what this forum is all about. Yes I am guilty of not supporting ANY host of download sites, and was not aware that this puts you out of pocket till now. without the hosts support to this forum it would be useless but it is not unreasonable for people to express their OWN opinion.
Respectfully
Jay
responderman said:
I don't think ANYONE is being a hypocrite on this thread, we are just supporting developers who have had their work abused and used by another party. I have the greatest admiration for the clever people who develop the amazing Rom's for our chosen PDA, without them our universals would now be an out of date device. I personally provide files and work to the LIMIT of my own abilities, and any rom I feel worth using, then I donate to the developer. I feel thats what this forum is all about. Yes I am guilty of not supporting ANY host of download sites, and was not aware that this puts you out of pocket till now. without the hosts support to this forum it would be useless but it is not unreasonable for people to express their OWN opinion.
Respectfully
Jay
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Thats a good point to note as well - Hosting cost me money, but it also costs the people who host this forum money. So, I wonder how many people have noticed the Donate link at the top of this page (near the Wiki link)...
Disagree with Beastie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I totally disagree with Beastie on this matter! If you take a look at the installed software on that Uni it has SPB Finance, Weather and Pocket Plus retailing at 70$ as well as a quite long list of other appz. More than that what we do here isn't fully legal either or at least moral. For example in our ROMs we include software that we do not have a licence or any right to use like MSVoiceCommand, MSOffice, HTC Stuff etc, etc, if you compare this to a PC it would be like buying a PC with Win98 then taking a copy(image) of a friend WinXP(with Office, and other apps) and loading it on your one. Do you thing this is right? And also if someone would do the same and sell this "New" PC complain about it. You develop for your own fun and hobby. If you decided to share something not very moral with others, don't complain when someone does something that is not fully moral by your judgement. Morality or legality of this matter is a subjective matter. And do understand the concept of open source. I'm coming from a Mozilla exdeveloper background. And Mozilla is used in numerous commercial applications with proper credits. You have no right to claim that someone used your work to make money on it, as you are using someone else work in your own interests (name, hobby, any reason). You have your reasons to make just what that guy did for his reasons(in his case money). One thief is judjung another!!! How moral is that??? Of course you do develop your own tools and enchacements, BUT on top of a STOLEN OS!!! Microsoft, HTC,etc invested money and time in their developers, designers, markeing depts. to bring this OS to life, and if they decide they don't want to give it for free it is their choice as a business model. You do not have the right to steal this OS tweak it and claim that it is YOUR and someone should pay you for this. Look a the whole picture not that just some guy used the ROM you dont own but tweaked it and claim it is yours.
PS. Last night i posted my 1st ever ROM on this forum wich is as vanilla as possible(for me), the reasons behind postin it here was exactly that. Anyone can download it and tweak it to his own use, or install new soft one it, new soft keybd, new media player, fast GPS soft etc, etc. I didn't own that OS, I took it of Thingonasping wich took it from someone else. You spend a some time and money in "developing" "your" ROMs, corporations spend billions on that, and someone comes along and steals it. Now that person do not have the need to upgrade his device anymore as "his" new OS will keep him happy for a while. How much damage do you do then to even HTC themselves who didn't sell another unit as their potential customer didn't buy it cos he's got his old device new features(without permision from legal developer).
PS. And how do you know or are so sure that he used "Your" ROM? Maybe he took your kitchen and compiled it, (wich in your view and interpretation), makes it "His" ROM now, isn't it?
I feel sorry for the poor sod who will buy this Universal:
1. As far as legality is concerned, any stolen goods doesn't pass the title of ownership to the buyer. Even though the buyer is unaware of this theft and he/she is innocent, the ownership title doesn't pass to him/her. A case in point about Spb software on the phone, which we are assuming installed on the phone illegally.
2. To add to this the poor sod's nightmare, he/she will be lumbered with Windows Mobile 6 with full of bugs. For sure it won't have video calling.
KOR!
Just one of my thoughts on developers...
Developers of apps and such have brought us some really useful creations that allow us to personalize our Android devices in almost anyway we desire. They spend countless hours, months, or even years developing these things which they give to us for our use.
While we use these creations, we find a bug or think of a new implementation for it. Now a developer will get new feature requests and choose to not make those changes because they have no time, not enough demand, or there's just no plan for it. On the other hand, we find a bug in it. We bring it to their attention and there's a chance that it will be fixed, maybe soon or in a later update. Maybe it doesn't get fixed but it still runs fairly well.
But what the unresponsive developers who basically make their apps for a quick buck and then the project is dead? Or the ones who don't listen to the supporters of their app at all? I know there's no obligation to listen to thoughts of the consumer but shouldn't the developer at least pay attention and be somewhat responsive?
Any thoughts/comments/disagreements/criticisms/hate on this are welcome.
Jamin13 said:
Just one of my thoughts on developers...
Developers of apps and such have brought us some really useful creations that allow us to personalize our Android devices in almost anyway we desire. They spend countless hours, months, or even years developing these things which they give to us for our use.
While we use these creations, we find a bug or think of a new implementation for it. Now a developer will get new feature requests and choose to not make those changes because they have no time, not enough demand, or there's just no plan for it. On the other hand, we find a bug in it. We bring it to their attention and there's a chance that it will be fixed, maybe soon or in a later update. Maybe it doesn't get fixed but it still runs fairly well.
But what the unresponsive developers who basically make their apps for a quick buck and then the project is dead? Or the ones who don't listen to the supporters of their app at all? I know there's no obligation to listen to thoughts of the consumer but shouldn't the developer at least pay attention and be somewhat responsive?
Any thoughts/comments/disagreements/criticisms/hate on this are welcome.
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I guess we are lucky in that the majority of Developers in the community are not demanding of donations or the 'quick buck'. Most do it to tinker in their spare time, to prove that it can be done, and to feed their passion. They are then gracious enough to share their works with us, everyday Joes, for nil thought of monetary gain (again, mostly).
It disheartens me greatly that the overwhelming majority of users now make the most ridiculous demands of Developers, expect a full-blown 'retail (bug-less)' experience, then have the gall to call Developers out if they decide to move away from the project, hit a brick wall or even just go to sleep!
Unfortunately I have even seen the odd Developer involved in this sort of behaviour, and it's certainly not limited to Junior members either, not by a long shot
These guys don't get paid, they're (generally) doing the best they can with what they've got, and they share with us out of their own goodwill. We use and try these things at our own risk. It's printed in big red letters at the top of most ROM threads these days, for good reason
With the onset of the 'smartphone revolution', it's amazing to read through a 50-page thread and watch how many people ask for each and every feature in a 'CWM flashable zip' because they can't, or won't, read through a few pages, or even do a search. I'd wager a fair few wouldn't even know what a Command Prompt or Fastboot was. These kids are flashing whatever looks 'cool' to their devices without so much as a clue to what it does (other than OMG an extra 0.1GHz! - example only), then expecting everyone else to pull them out of the **** when it goes pear-shaped ('I need flashable zip for...'), and having a bit of a go if something doesn't work, rather than sitting back and waiting for it to get past version 0.1.
I have great sympathy for Developers today, as they don't have a hope in Hell of keeping on top of this, nor keeping up with the ridiculous demands.
Even if we make a donation, it does not entitle us to any more support than the regular user who just hits the 'Thanks' button, or even just silently downloads and uses. It's called a donation for a reason. This is a community based on goodwill and sharing, although some days it certainly doesn't look that way.
I've bored you long enough Thankyou for asking the question and giving me the opportunity to share my thoughts. Remember, the Developers are the lifeblood of this community, and (thankfully) bad eggs among them are quite rare.
Take care.
juzz86 said:
I guess we are lucky in that the majority of Developers in the community are not demanding of donations or the 'quick buck'. Most do it to tinker in their spare time, to prove that it can be done, and to feed their passion. They are then gracious enough to share their works with us, everyday Joes, for nil thought of monetary gain (again, mostly).
It disheartens me greatly that the overwhelming majority of users now make the most ridiculous demands of Developers, expect a full-blown 'retail (bug-less)' experience, then have the gall to call Developers out if they decide to move away from the project, hit a brick wall or even just go to sleep!
Unfortunately I have even seen the odd Developer involved in this sort of behaviour, and it's certainly not limited to Junior members either, not by a long shot
These guys don't get paid, they're (generally) doing the best they can with what they've got, and they share with us out of their own goodwill. We use and try these things at our own risk. It's printed in big red letters at the top of most ROM threads these days, for good reason
With the onset of the 'smartphone revolution', it's amazing to read through a 50-page thread and watch how many people ask for each and every feature in a 'CWM flashable zip' because they can't, or won't, read through a few pages, or even do a search. I'd wager a fair few wouldn't even know what a Command Prompt or Fastboot was. These kids are flashing whatever looks 'cool' to their devices without so much as a clue to what it does (other than OMG an extra 0.1GHz! - example only), then expecting everyone else to pull them out of the **** when it goes pear-shaped ('I need flashable zip for...'), and having a bit of a go if something doesn't work, rather than sitting back and waiting for it to get past version 0.1.
I have great sympathy for Developers today, as they don't have a hope in Hell of keeping on top of this, nor keeping up with the ridiculous demands.
Even if we make a donation, it does not entitle us to any more support than the regular user who just hits the 'Thanks' button, or even just silently downloads and uses. It's called a donation for a reason. This is a community based on goodwill and sharing, although some days it certainly doesn't look that way.
I've bored you long enough Thankyou for asking the question and giving me the opportunity to share my thoughts. Remember, the Developers are the lifeblood of this community, and (thankfully) bad eggs among them are quite rare.
Take care.
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No problem, always nice to know others thoughts on an idea.
There are the dedicated devs who do spend vast amounts of time on their work and everyone (most everyone anyway) are quite appreciative of it. I'm more concerned with devs, whether new or old, just maybe responding. Not just toward reasonable (or ludicrous) requests but just a general question. I wouldn't look for them to respond to everyone who does ask something though, they would be there for days.
I'm just trying to port a recovery for my phone and cannot get a response from any of those respected and revered devs that have done all the work on those recoveries. I've done my fair share of Googling and asking around here and still have not been able to make any progress on it. There was one member who has been lending a hand but other than him, I haven't gotten any other responses.
It sounded like the first post was more about app devs and the second was about rom devs...
I was just talking about devs in general, not any specific kind. Could be ROMs, could be Apps, people will still ask for more and more and pester until they get what they want or until the developer gets fed up and: makes the changes, stops responding, or gets run off.
Just curious what everyone's opinion is on this.
When I got my first android phone in 2010, a Samsung Fascinate, it seemed to be a burgeoning scene with the developers doing dev'ing for the fun of it and getting rewarded by an appreciative end user.
Fast forward nine months and I am ready for 4g so I slap down my $600 for a charge and watch a molasses like and seemingly dormant dev scene.
There is excuse after excuse as to why the scene is quiet and then there is wind of an "in development" ICS ROM. This is put forth via twitter and then shows up on XDA not even by the developer mind you and everyone gets excited and is flooding said dev with donations on a ROM he labels "the most unsupported ROM ever" and proceeds to let it sit due to the same reason the phone has not had any real attention all along; no RIL code.
When said dev is called on about putting something out labelled "unsupported" and then has the gall to say donate to me(which the dev or mods remove from the thread) if you want the work finished; is this acceptable behaviour?
I am not an end user who is unappreciative and expecting of a dev's work.
I do play with some of the custom stuff for fun on occasion but always come back to stock.
You can keep the simple petty rhetoric that typically ensues to yourself. I am entitled to my $600 phone and that is what I use. Not anyone's work on the forums or IRC! If I do use anything I will test for problems and report back before jumping back to stock and pass along a gesture of appreciation.
Now that I have hopefully made you understand my intentions and absolve anyone of the typical schoolyard bashing that frequents these hallowed walls, is it acceptable for a dev to whip together a ROM that is useless and collect money on it from all of the hopeful and anticipating end users that will not realize an end product?
Especially now that manufacturers are pumping out new phones at an alarming rate that a new phone will be in the shadows every six months.
Thoughts?
Just allow electronic Darwinism to take its course! If someone is taking the piss, they'll soon die out, if people use common sense and don't encourage them
Most devs that I see, Or rather use ROMS from are quite active and very supportive and NEVER even spoke anything about donation. I was happy to donate for a few of them coz it is really worth it.
I think this opinion you speak of might have been due to your ill luck or some pretty bad devs you have encountered.
I'm not saying you are wrong but I'm saying that your prespective might be due to a unlucky or bad dev (one bad apple) incident.
As far as my phone the Desire Hd is concerned, the developers are still just as helpful and enthusiastic as ever.
There is no developer like a bad or good developer, its because of them 99% of people are using roms without donating, 1 % donates to developers
I know a lot of developer who work on projects for free, but even the developers out there like to drink a beer paid from their projects
-> Donations are welcome!
Well,a developer who makes something for XDA and then actually tries to sell it is a downright asshole.Pardon the word,but it's the most accurate description I can give.
This is a community of developers,for developers to share their work.Users are more like guests,who get to use everything for free and just help developers by pointing out flaws in their work.Users enjoy developers' work and developers make their work better constantly,because they want to.No one forced them or employed them here.But then again,it's only right that we should donate to them sometimes.They donate their free time and put large efforts for what's done here,so it's a fair "exchange".But that's it.Donating is optional,as it should be and as is right.The "developers" who try to sell their work here are in the wrong place.
Generally,the better the work,the more donations they will get,so actually instead of asking for money they could just make something better than what's already available and money will come.
We aren't fools who expect everyone to selflessly give us their work in this world,but for Christ's sake,at least pretend that you're selfless!
Anyway,this is in no way an attack or rant against developers,but rather to those self-called developers who exploit the community spirit for their gains.True developers,as most here are I hope,are more than just respected here.
tolis626 said:
Well,a developer who makes something for XDA and then actually tries to sell it is a downright asshole.Pardon the word,but it's the most accurate description I can give.
This is a community of developers,for developers to share their work.Users are more like guests,who get to use everything for free and just help developers by pointing out flaws in their work.Users enjoy developers' work and developers make their work better constantly,because they want to.No one forced them or employed them here.But then again,it's only right that we should donate to them sometimes.They donate their free time and put large efforts for what's done here,so it's a fair "exchange".But that's it.Donating is optional,as it should be and as is right.The "developers" who try to sell their work here are in the wrong place.
Generally,the better the work,the more donations they will get,so actually instead of asking for money they could just make something better than what's already available and money will come.
We aren't fools who expect everyone to selflessly give us their work in this world,but for Christ's sake,at least pretend that you're selfless!
Anyway,this is in no way an attack or rant against developers,but rather to those self-called developers who exploit the community spirit for their gains.True developers,as most here are I hope,are more than just respected here.
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So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
Archer said:
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
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Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs, why? Because with the possible exception of building completely from source, you are essentially selling modifications of someone else's software. Especially when you include proprietary drivers and software. Touchscreen drivers, camera drivers, audio drivers, radio drivers and the like in many cases are proprietary and licensed to be resold only by the maker of the device. Receiving donations for development is questionable at best, demanding donations for development is basically selling software you don't have rights to sell.
I think one of the reason I've previously seen mods block these sort of attempts is because it creates a legal issue for XDA itself. Plus you have people who donated but developers wanting more and the person who donated feel cheated.
Thankfully I haven't seen a lot of this in the Evo3D forums, I have seen a lot of RESPECT THE GPL immediately after DON'T EVEN LOOK AT MY CODE when half their code is kanged from someone else's hard work. Usually though, people start getting annoyed and those roms start to die off.
Or you have the case with Chad.Goodman, where he writes decent stuff on his own and people get annoyed by that and contact beats & qualcomm all while they release 'beats' mods on their own stuff. (which still doesn't make any sense to me)
Cabe24i said:
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs
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I totally agree with that.
Archer said:
I totally agree with that.
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As does XDA, hence the rules at present
This is not a platform to make money from. For anyone who cares, I have made a total of £0.00 from XDA. I don't wish to make personal profit from here.
I spend large numbers of hours on the site, doing stuff behind the scenes. If I was to draw up a "bill" for the past year, it would be in the hundreds of thousands of pounds, based on the price I charge for my services.
But I wouldn't ever want to see myself as selling something here. That's not what this site is about! There's plenty of places to sell stuff. If you make your own app, fair enough. If you modify something belonging to someone else, then nope
bwheelies said:
Just curious what everyone's opinion is on this.
When I got my first android phone in 2010, a Samsung Fascinate, it seemed to be a burgeoning scene with the developers doing dev'ing for the fun of it and getting rewarded by an appreciative end user.
Fast forward nine months and I am ready for 4g so I slap down my $600 for a charge and watch a molasses like and seemingly dormant dev scene.
There is excuse after excuse as to why the scene is quiet and then there is wind of an "in development" ICS ROM. This is put forth via twitter and then shows up on XDA not even by the developer mind you and everyone gets excited and is flooding said dev with donations on a ROM he labels "the most unsupported ROM ever" and proceeds to let it sit due to the same reason the phone has not had any real attention all along; no RIL code.
When said dev is called on about putting something out labelled "unsupported" and then has the gall to say donate to me(which the dev or mods remove from the thread) if you want the work finished; is this acceptable behaviour?
I am not an end user who is unappreciative and expecting of a dev's work.
I do play with some of the custom stuff for fun on occasion but always come back to stock.
You can keep the simple petty rhetoric that typically ensues to yourself. I am entitled to my $600 phone and that is what I use. Not anyone's work on the forums or IRC! If I do use anything I will test for problems and report back before jumping back to stock and pass along a gesture of appreciation.
Now that I have hopefully made you understand my intentions and absolve anyone of the typical schoolyard bashing that frequents these hallowed walls, is it acceptable for a dev to whip together a ROM that is useless and collect money on it from all of the hopeful and anticipating end users that will not realize an end product?
Especially now that manufacturers are pumping out new phones at an alarming rate that a new phone will be in the shadows every six months.
Thoughts?
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My thoughts? If your main concern was dev scene, why would you get a locked down motorola?
Ok, I have been trolling here for sometime and have seen some devs who ask for donations. However, the vast majority just contribute their time and hard work for the betterment of the platform and the community as a whole.
As for slow development, I think a lot of that has to do with the phone. I have the SGS 2 and there is active development for that with a lot of great roms. My wife has the 4g Slide and the development is slightly slower. It all comes down to the popularity of the phone.
If devs make a product good enough for people to pay for then good for them. On the other hand, if they ask for donations but their software is crap then no one will buy it.
It's a free market, let them try.
It is alot of work and it requires a special skill set to do what devs do, so I can appreciate them asking for a couple bucks for their trouble.
I buy beers/coffee when i see two things..
#1 a good working Rom/ Root / hack /tweak that has a history of upgrades/work/tweaks from the chef.
# 2 the chef is active in the thread, helping others with questions/ issues etc etc..
Archer said:
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
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I agree with Cabe24i.See below.
Cabe24i said:
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs, why? Because with the possible exception of building completely from source, you are essentially selling modifications of someone else's software. Especially when you include proprietary drivers and software. Touchscreen drivers, camera drivers, audio drivers, radio drivers and the like in many cases are proprietary and licensed to be resold only by the maker of the device. Receiving donations for development is questionable at best, demanding donations for development is basically selling software you don't have rights to sell.
I think one of the reason I've previously seen mods block these sort of attempts is because it creates a legal issue for XDA itself. Plus you have people who donated but developers wanting more and the person who donated feel cheated.
Thankfully I haven't seen a lot of this in the Evo3D forums, I have seen a lot of RESPECT THE GPL immediately after DON'T EVEN LOOK AT MY CODE when half their code is kanged from someone else's hard work. Usually though, people start getting annoyed and those roms start to die off.
Or you have the case with Chad.Goodman, where he writes decent stuff on his own and people get annoyed by that and contact beats & qualcomm all while they release 'beats' mods on their own stuff. (which still doesn't make any sense to me)
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The point isn't whether they are allowed to accept money for their work.They surely should put their creations on sale.And exactly here is where I agree with you.ROMs and kernels aren't their work.As good as someone's modifications can be,it's not new code written by them entirely(except for some patches,etc).While their work is and should be rewarded,it should in no way become mandatory that we pay to use it.It should be optional as it is.It's fair for everyone that way.Those who deserve it will get paid,end of story.
Selling apps on XDA is another story,but it's also completely right to do so,as they could just sell those on the market and be done with it.But it's about applications written anew,not modified ones.Did anyone sell a modified copy of a game?I don't think so.
We should show our appreciation to developers,but they should also show us some respect(I am more than content with what's going on here on the dev side,it's XDA's ungrateful noobs that I'm mad with like most of you here).Fraud is a crime after all.
I can see both sides of that argument actually. Whilst I do think it's unreasonable for a developer to request money for merely tweaking a ROM, it's the same as a painter painting your living room. He's not made you a brand new living room from scratch. He's just painted your existing one. That's similar to a ROM tweaker.
That said, I do understand and abide by the rules - I'm not arguing them. Just playing devil's advocate.
lowandbehold said:
My thoughts? If your main concern was dev scene, why would you get a locked down motorola?
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Not sure if you are asking me. I have a Droid Charge.
F2504x4 said:
I buy beers/coffee when i see two things..
#1 a good working Rom/ Root / hack /tweak that has a history of upgrades/work/tweaks from the chef.
# 2 the chef is active in the thread, helping others with questions/ issues etc etc..
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This is one of the best posts I have seen on xda. Judging by this, the developer who posted a no effort ROM in a stagnant phone development scene who says donate and does nothing with the ROM is nothing but a modern day P.T. Barnum.
First of all, you don't have to donate
But I agree with OP it's not done to demand donations to finish work.
If your work is good and you support it well, possibilities for a donation are much higher.
But it is no guarantee for donations.
But isn't respect from others the best payment for your work? That's the reason I do my share for the community
If I really like a rom, what is the customary donation amount?
I know this is going to bring in a rainbow of amounts but I want to be be fair
Thanks in Adv.
I have moved your thread to Q and A where it should have been. Donations have been and always will be a private nature. As a developer myself I accept donations and have never published how much or who from (but I am VERY thankful for them!). Really, can you put a price on hard work, true ground breaking tweaks or the long hours it takes to make all of this? Probably not... Donating is what YOU the donator thinks is fair... Whether its $5 or $25. Its up to YOU. Whatever YOU think YOU can afford also plays into it... All developers, no matter what the monetary amount will be thankful... I'm going to close this thread because I answered your question and because I fear if I do not it will become opinion central and will flame out...:good:
Just curious, whats a respectable amount? Of course one could say any amount out but really, whats like the normal for a donation for say a rom or kernel? I often find myself about to donate $500 to some developers but then wonder if thats the norm or too less? Yes some is better than none but how much is worth it and how much is less enough to be a insult? 5$ literally a beer? 1$ why bother? Does 10 make a dev grin? Would 20 make them love me? Dont need that.
droseofc said:
Just curious, whats a respectable amount? Of course one could say any amount out but really, whats like the normal for a donation for say a rom or kernel? I often find myself about to donate $500 to some developers but then wonder if thats the norm or too less? Yes some is better than none but how much is worth it and how much is less enough to be a insult? 5$ literally a beer? 1$ why bother? Does 10 make a dev grin? Would 20 make them love me? Dont need that.
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Its like any other donation, whatever you feel like giving, while $500 would be much appreciated by any developer, I'd say its a bit excessive as donations go.
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Lol i was deff jk with the 500. Had to throw a big number in just in case my little ones were trumped. I donate occasionally, for like the santas that are coming anytime now outside stores, and the occasional guy with his bicycle holding a sign saying he ran out of gas. Talkin like a few bucks. As bad as it sounds they really didnt put effort for me to donate, and alls they are wanting is whatever you can give. Here tho, they are taking time and effort and mad skills to create something for anybody without the intention of being donated to but gladly accepts. Just last week I was about to send 7$ to someone but didnt because idk if the beer money others have said to donate or the coffee some say would be nice is just that or if it's forum donation slang. Not too long ago i misunderstood this Linux distro download and thought it said donations required. I had yet to try it or even knw if it was good. I donated a penny. Received a thank you email and all. The donation actually wasnt required and there was an option to download for free. I was like man if i got a penny for a unrequired donation id question my material or wonder what that guys problem was. Obviously when its nothing vs something the something always wins. However, sometimes it may of been better to not at all, like i used to move houses, furniture moving, and after moving all of someones stuff and they are like o here i wanted to give you this for all of your hard work, get yourself a 10-10-21 call on me for 1$. Its a little awkward cuz u dont knw if they knw and its all n kindness but really you shouldnt have. Would of been better with a handshake and the security of knowing i am still unaware you have no idea what year it is.
Droidriven said:
Its like any other donation, whatever you feel like giving, while $500 would be much appreciated by any developer, I'd say its a bit excessive as donations go.
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droseofc said:
Lol i was deff jk with the 500. Had to throw a big number in just in case my little ones were trumped. I donate occasionally, for like the santas that are coming anytime now outside stores, and the occasional guy with his bicycle holding a sign saying he ran out of gas. Talkin like a few bucks. As bad as it sounds they really didnt put effort for me to donate, and alls they are wanting is whatever you can give. Here tho, they are taking time and effort and mad skills to create something for anybody without the intention of being donated to but gladly accepts. Just last week I was about to send 7$ to someone but didnt because idk if the beer money others have said to donate or the coffee some say would be nice is just that or if it's forum donation slang. Not too long ago i misunderstood this Linux distro download and thought it said donations required. I had yet to try it or even knw if it was good. I donated a penny. Received a thank you email and all. The donation actually wasnt required and there was an option to download for free. I was like man if i got a penny for a unrequired donation id question my material or wonder what that guys problem was. Obviously when its nothing vs something the something always wins. However, sometimes it may of been better to not at all, like i used to move houses, furniture moving, and after moving all of someones stuff and they are like o here i wanted to give you this for all of your hard work, get yourself a 10-10-21 call on me for 1$. Its a little awkward cuz u dont knw if they knw and its all n kindness but really you shouldnt have. Would of been better with a handshake and the security of knowing i am still unaware you have no idea what year it is.
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These guys don't do this for donations, its a labor of love and they do it whether they get anything for it or not, its about sharing knowledge for most of us. Donations are not required but they are appreciated in any amount.
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"Here tho, they are taking time and effort and mad skills to create something for anybody without the intention of being donated to but gladly accepts"
I know thats what i was sayin.... so 10$ a good norm donation? 50? 5? If it was something that was sold (custom roms) it could easily be priced 25-100$ (i think anyways). Basically id rather not donate something that is not enough to be taken as a real donation and id rather not do so much that an awkward "friendship" is created. Lol i think im runnin n circles here. Like tipping at a restaurant, go to rule 15% (hopefully), whats that for here? Lol just tryin to do it right.
droseofc said:
"Here tho, they are taking time and effort and mad skills to create something for anybody without the intention of being donated to but gladly accepts"
I know thats what i was sayin.... so 10$ a good norm donation? 50? 5? If it was something that was sold (custom roms) it could easily be priced 25-100$ (i think anyways). Basically id rather not donate something that is not enough to be taken as a real donation and id rather not do so much that an awkward "friendship" is created. Lol i think im runnin n circles here. Like tipping at a restaurant, go to rule 15% (hopefully), whats that for here? Lol just tryin to do it right.
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The amount doesn't matter, that's the point. When developers offer development then any donation of any amount is just a bonus. There is no "too small" or "too big", they don't do this for donations so it doesn't matter if you give anything or not. I'm sure that developers want to know their work is appreciated but they don't care if they get donations or not, if that were so then it wouldn't be freely offered, they'd charge a set amount for it and that goes against the community rules here. You are making more of this than what it really is, just donate or don't, its that simple.
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