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T-Mobile sneaks "rootkit" into G2 phones - reinstalls locked-down OS after root
Not that there haven't been preventative measures before, but it looks like the G2 will be "unrootable" to start. Might be something to consider before jumping in with the G2. Very sad as this phone looks like a winner in all other ways.
Here is the original article on BoingBoing.
Hmmm... I'd be interested to know where the original OS ROM is stored, as that would take up a lot of space...
If it's true, then we next find how it "decides" it's rooted, and look at fooling that. If not, look at changing the image to be flashed with a custom ROM or dummy one.
Still failing that, perhaps looking into what calls this chip, and if boot process could be made to skip this.
Something seems strange about this, though I've not researched it properly yet... anyone seen it reported on other sources yet?
pulser_g2 said:
anyone seen it reported on other sources yet?
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http://gizmodo.com/5656921/t+mobiles-g2-rootkit-will-reinstall-stock-android-after-a-jailbreak
Master™ said:
http://gizmodo.com/5656921/t+mobiles-g2-rootkit-will-reinstall-stock-android-after-a-jailbreak
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Thanks, that links back to XDA, so I had a quick read of the latest... I was considering buying the G2/whatever it's called, but I have now changed my mind.
Yes folks, I just made a purchasing decision based on some silly little security chip, and I encourage others to do likewise. I am sure the security will be broken on it, at which point (if it's a permanent root/custom flash) I would re-consider my position, but as it stands, I refuse to buy it.
I have no idea who decided this was needed, but I certainly will not be buying from them in future. If it's T-Mobile, I will switch network (despite the fact they're a good network in the UK), if HTC I will look to other manufacturers.
[/rant
It's not that much different to what Motorola is doing with the Droid X, Droid 2 and Milestone, where if it detects any meddling it will brick the phone.
But in the long term, it's OUR phones, we can do whatever we please. Trust me it will be bypassed, if a lock can be made by a human, it can be BROKEN by a human. Look at the Desire for example.
They should do what they did with the N1, if the user unlocks the bootloader, and meddles with it until they bugger the phone, and they try sending it back for warranty, it's the users fault.
Just_s said:
Not that there haven't been preventative measures before, but it looks like the G2 will be "unrootable" to start. Might be something to consider before jumping in with the G2. Very sad as this phone looks like a winner in all other ways.
Here is the original article on BoingBoing.
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Click to collapse
Explain to me how write protection == rootkit. In fact, it's quite the opposite - a rootkit (of sorts) allows us to exploit our way into a rootshell and install su to /system/bin/. This is nothing more than clever write-protection in the mmc.
And as usual, HTC is late on delivering the kernel source so we can really see what's up...
pulser_g2 said:
Yes folks, I just made a purchasing decision based on some silly little security chip, and I encourage others to do likewise. I am sure the security will be broken on it, at which point (if it's a permanent root/custom flash) I would re-consider my position, but as it stands, I refuse to buy it.
I have no idea who decided this was needed, but I certainly will not be buying from them in future. If it's T-Mobile, I will switch network (despite the fact they're a good network in the UK), if HTC I will look to other manufacturers.
[/rant
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Why would HTC look to other carriers?
I ranted about this back in the WinMo days, but XDA is essentially picking up the slack for manufacturer/carrier actions. You said so yourself; you're not considering the G2 for a purchase anymore....until XDA or another dev forum finds a way around the security measure. And you will not buy from them...so long as HTC doesn't work with the carrier anymore, but if sales remain the same, they'll have no reason to stop.
So manufacturers/carriers don't need to change the way they implement security measures, they just need to keep making desirable phones and so long as others pick up the slack, they'll be able to capture the sales of the userbase that likes rooting their phones. This is going to continue being the case -- Android manufacturers will create phones and users will buy the phones on the promise that forums like XDA will make it better.
For real change to occur, sales have to be greatly affected.
Looks like the anti-root movement is beginning to snowball into a full fledged avalanche. I currently have a Droid X and it seems its locked bootloader has cause many devs to give up. Sure we have root and a few roms and themes to get rid of bloatware, but it isn't as great as a full unlock, not to mention lack of a true SBF for OTA 2.2 users.
HTC was going to be my next choice after I got bored with my X in about a year or so (more like 6 months). But it seems now that they've developed this tech for the G2, I'm sure all other carriers will want it on all future HTC devices. As soon a Samsung steps it up and creates their own locked bootloader, we'll all be SOL. What's left? Dell? Sony Ericsson?
Seems like all carriers will only be selling phones with locked bootloaders. I thought HTC was on our side, but the G2 is proof of the contrary. We need a manufacturer that embraces devs. With the recent bootloader unlocking failures seen with the Droid X and the difficulty seen with the Milestone, does anyone here think the development community can overcome the bootloader challenge?
HTC response to G2 complaint
emailed HTC to voice my displeasure. rather than ignoring my email, they felt compelled to reply with some low level, non-commital, and utterly moronic dribble especially in light of t-mobile already having released its lame-o statement. i also find it rather questionable that google had any part in this. too bad that HTC is following the Motorola model of duping folks into thinking they bought a device when all that money actually just buys time-limited, pre-defined functionality.
Without root Android wont be the same, looks like I'll be going back to Winders if this is the direction they are going to take it. They are taking all the fun out of it.
May be I'm posting in the wrong section..
The idea is:
We know the developers here are pretty smart people, and we all want our tablet run faster, better, smoother...
How many people will be agree to pay/donate to Xda team to develop a custom fully-functional, tested rom with "support" for us ?!
Let's say 100 ppl pay/donate $10 for custom android 3.0 rom for g-tablet. $1000 usd is reasonable price to have cool rom running, don't you think ?
This would be a cool benefit for the "users" and cool help for developers.
Any ideas?
Im in! I have been thinking of a way to say thanks. And whats better than money?
I have been working on a hand made leather personalized case for roobeet and i lmost have a functional prototype finnished but this would be for all the devs.
No point to it cause the developers here are already working on Android 6.5 (Double butter fudge salty nipples) Rom. No point in them going backwards.
Interesting point of view, Sm0k3d 0uT, still,i would pay for a fully functional rom.
try using the search function to find out why it ain't gonna happen.
it not about the money Honeycomb source is not out yet so there is no way to make a good rom right now. it would be a frankinstein rom and would probalby run like crap
It's not about Honeycomb. It was just and example.
I'm interested in your opinion. Will you pay for a custom build tested rom or not ? And would be nice to hear and answer form a developer, will our "support" help or not
Don't interpret usually getting better bundled apps in a specific roms with needing a specific rom to get better apps. Most roms do a fine job with running on the g-tablet as is. As for the apps, the market it there. The main issue with Android tablets so far it the lack of Tablet-friendly applications. Take angry birds and pulse news reader, they run just as well on a g-tablet foyo based rom as they do on honeycomb. In the end, the version of the OS itself really does not make or break a tablet.
There is room for improving the way we can navigate the OS on an Android tablet, and Honeycomb is a first step to address that and that will eventually be available outside of the xoom.
In the end, if you ask me, I would really prefer to have more tablet apps than a tablet-centric menu system.
I can actually respond, as a modder (I don't really call myself a developer)
I personally wouldn't accept the offer, and I will explain why -- most of us do this for fun and, even though we take the users requests and advise seriously, ultimately it's our ROM, with out own "vision". A perfect example is TNT Lite - I've had some really wacky requests on either extreme, but since I "own" the ROM ultimately I can make the decision on whether something stays or goes.
I do accept general "buy me a beer" donations, but so far no one has taken that as an opportunity to force my hand on a ROM change. Or asked me to give them personal support "above and beyond" like calling them directly (except once, and that person actually didn't donate - he just wanted phone service. Not kidding).
But even if the coffer were high and I was the only one working on it, I would not accept it because post-support is MUCH more difficult than just creating a mod. I really appreciate the power users here who handle a lot of the questions that drop in the site and actually help me to alleviate that support burden. I work in Operations and did customer service for many years, so I know how difficult this can be.
The last issue is that users will never agree on what changes to make. One will want a stock music player, one will want the one he liked on the Archos, and another would want the music player removed because music reminds him of his ex-girlfriend so he's eradicated music from his life. It would just be too stressful and would not be fun anymore. So I appreciate the offer, but I would not participate.
Btw, there's already a big coffer over at notioinkhacks.com to get a HC port working - so far, no one's managed it.
Sm0k3d 0uT said:
try using the search function to find out why it ain't gonna happen.
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You probably meant it for a different reason, but it's actually valid just to gauge the different opinions that the userbase has on certain things that they would want.
I'm sure to whom ever develops the first fully functional HC ROM, that dev will get their donations or at least should get some donations. However, I'm sure none of the devs would be comfortable taking donations promising to build a HC Rom when they know it can't be done at this time. Also, I'm pretty sure as devs they have tried to get a HC Rom ported to our gtablets. Most of these devs live for that type of accomplishment and challenges.
Don't get me wrong, I know your idea is a postive one and I'm all for it. But most of the roms that's are in the development section are already fully functional and all the devs deserve our donations.
Edit: See above. you notice how humble our modders/developers are. They all have high integrity which to me shows that I can trust that if and when HC is available for a custom Rom...they'll get it to us as soon as possible.
roebeet said:
I can actually respond, as a modder (I don't really call myself a developer)
I personally wouldn't accept the offer, and I will explain why -- most of us do this for fun and, even though we take the users requests and advise seriously, ultimately it's our ROM, with out own "vision". A perfect example is TNT Lite - I've had some really wacky requests on either extreme, but since I "own" the ROM ultimately I can make the decision on whether something stays or goes.
I do accept general "buy me a beer" donations, but so far no one has taken that as an opportunity to force my hand on a ROM change. Or asked me to give them personal support "above and beyond" like calling them directly (except once, and that person actually didn't donate - he just wanted phone service. Not kidding).
But even if the coffer were high and I was the only one working on it, I would not accept it because post-support is MUCH more difficult than just creating a mod. I really appreciate the power users here who handle a lot of the questions that drop in the site and actually help me to alleviate that support burden. I work in Operations and did customer service for many years, so I know how difficult this can be.
The last issue is that users will never agree on what changes to make. One will want a stock music player, one will want the one he liked on the Archos, and another would want the music player removed because music reminds him of his ex-girlfriend so he's eradicated music from his life. It would just be too stressful and would not be fun anymore. So I appreciate the offer, but I would not participate.
Btw, there's already a big coffer over at notioinkhacks.com to get a HC port working - so far, no one's managed it.
You probably meant it for a different reason, but it's actually valid just to gauge the different opinions that the userbase has on certain things that they would want.
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First of all - Thanks for this answer.
But I guess my question was not "clear"
I understand and agree with all points you've pointed.
Few other points:
1. You do this for fun, but we use your project not only for fun.
2. Your "fun" requires time. time = money.
3. Your rom is much better than the one that comes with the tablet
4. Without making money of it - you'll not be able to spend more time on it and make it better.
etc etc..
support: I'm not talking about customer support, taking calls and mails. We'r talking about questions like "what can i do if my tablet doesn't turn on. How to do recovery, etc..", questions you already answered posted in one single topic.
Still gonna be the same: There is a custom built rom, with pre-installed applications, FULLY functional for your tablet (can be with user requested apps if you find them useful) with latest drivers. Who doesn't like it - you're free to install the original that comes with the tablet.
Basically the idea is: give support to the developers (and yes, you are) with money, so they can spend more time on rom's, that we all are using. Make them better (anything get's better with more time spent on it) What do you think?
Like Roebeet said devs do this for fun. But like we did on the mt4g boards to start up development I would gladly put money towards a pot to buy a GTab for more great devs to come from other devices. you can never have enough devs and different flavors of roms.
On a side not I would love to see a group of devs create there own rom kinda like the MIUI team did they went completely outside the box. I dont mean I would want MIUI on my Gtab but a completely fresh idea, not just a port.
truthkillszz said:
On a side not I would love to see a group of devs create there own rom kinda like the MIUI team did they went completely outside the box. I dont mean I would want MIUI on my Gtab but a completely fresh idea, not just a port.
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Our thoughts converge. I already spoke once about it
ok well, Just inviting few beers to roebeet for Tnt Lite Thanks !
I have seen some threads for kids apps. I am interested in finding/building a kids ROM.
My child has a prepaid SIM card and RAZR to be used for certain situations. I would want to be able to let my child carry the phone all the time but restrict what numbers could be called.
So my idea, which can't be an original one, is leverage Android power to install a rooted ROM but run in user mode when I give it to my child. User mode could restrict calling to the phone book only or restrict wi-fi/data access; basically anything that you wanted to restrict or remove. Maybe there could be a ROM builder.
I have many scenarios in mind but maybe they could all be solved by software apps instead of getting into a custom ROM? I'm tech savvy, but haven't ever done a ROM. If the answer is to develop a custom ROM, what device should I choose that would get the most community support? I figure it would be a low end phone, since the point is to make a children's rom.
May I ask how old is your child?
[Sig] dId you know? If you Insert a Coin on your Desire, then it levels up to HD, Z or S :[/Sig]
i was thinking of my son when you mentioned this, it is a great i dea, and i also thought if the original att kid's phone that was out a few years back. it was revamped and it sucked. but good luck on either building one or have some one make one ( put a bounty on it?)
Phones and ROMs
My child is 8 years old. I figure in a few years that it would be fine, but it seems like there would be more of a market for this.
I would put up a bounty for it but I'd prefer to make this a community effort too.
So I will change tack here and ask what the best ROM might be for me to start with and what phones might be recommended? I'm figuring that CM would be easiest to start with, generically?
Thoughts?
I think that is a very good idea.
A good part of that could be accoimplished with a kids theme on an existing ROM.
im sorry but the RAZR is a dumb-phone! it doesnt support 3rd party modding. im afraid you are mistaking the word 'ROM' and actually don't know what it means! You will have no luck finding such ROM for the RAZR... A bootloader of any sort does not exist!
You need a smartphone if you want such a job done, but it requires a investment into a smartphone which are generally more expensive and not intended for 'kids'
I understand...
@olyloh6696: Thanks for looking in on the thread!
You misunderstood what I was explaining. She _currently_ has a RAZR. I want to figure out what the best GSM _android_ phone would be to do the project I'm describing would be. I would of course have to get the new phone; I do understand that the RAZR does not support android (dumbphone).
Any thoughts on phone model or something out there like this already?
rykerwilliams said:
@olyloh6696: Thanks for looking in on the thread!
You misunderstood what I was explaining. She _currently_ has a RAZR. I want to figure out what the best GSM _android_ phone would be to do the project I'm describing would be. I would of course have to get the new phone; I do understand that the RAZR does not support android (dumbphone).
Any thoughts on phone model or something out there like this already?
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hi
well i guess the best option for a relatively cheap phone (that has android) is the zte blade (in my sig) it is a british phone, but gsm, so i think it should work in the us. if you read reviews for it, it has specs of the desire, nexus one, etc in a cheap budget range. read some revies on it! it also cost £100. Not sure what your budget is though. before you set out to buy the phone, you may need to look up a rom that supports the requirements you want, or you could request one/build your own.
good luck
Unrelated, but the RAZR does support modding lol. Back in the day, pre-Android, I used to hack the hell out of my Razr. There's even a hidden feature called Club Lights that uses the phone's microphone to detect music and make the lights on the phone go with the beat. Youtube it.
That's a great idea... it would be great on a tablet too.
I'm always worried that my son is going to click around in the market and download tons of apps without know it.
Remove Dialer.app, replace with custom Dialer.app
Is the source for the Dialer.app known, i.e. part of the main trunk of the Android sources? I was just thinking that it might not be too hard to just modify that original source to limit it only to the "contacts" tab, that way you can only call the contacts tab.
Another feature I thought of is using some kind of Dynamic DNS client to be able to dial in to the phone.
I was thinking that there could be a "phone home" app that would call home and report the currently used minutes and GPS coordinates, or similar.
Just trying to get the features set worked out and find out if there is existing apps that do this stuff.
2018, quick google search for Kids Custom ROM.... dead thread no progress. There is definitely a market for this, since it's easy to shove a phone into an OtterBox like case and let them have at it with safe guards. My kid has had an Ipad since age 2 without issue. Now she asks for my phone on occasion (years later). It would be easier to just take a custom ROM shove it on a cheap device and give it to her.
Sure, I am a minority, definitely but I can't consider myself the only person who would want to do this.
This is what I'm looking for my child. I'm a software engeneer but I've never works on Android. I think it's not a great works for an Android developer.
I'll follow this post for news.
digging this one up again. anyway to take something like at Nexux 5x and put a totally stripped down version of android on it to achieve something like the lightphone?
nvrpunk said:
2018, quick google search for Kids Custom ROM.... dead thread no progress. There is definitely a market for this, since it's easy to shove a phone into an OtterBox like case and let them have at it with safe guards. My kid has had an Ipad since age 2 without issue. Now she asks for my phone on occasion (years later). It would be easier to just take a custom ROM shove it on a cheap device and give it to her.
Sure, I am a minority, definitely but I can't consider myself the only person who would want to do this.
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Per capita, there are very few people that actually root or flash custom ROMs, the number of kids that could/would use such a ROM is even less than that, this means it is not worth a developers time and hard work to build a ROM for this purpose, especially considering the plethora of different devices out there in the world. There would not be enough kids using "this" or "that" device with "this" or "that" custom ROM. To be as convenient for kids as what you are asking about, there would have to be a "kids ROM" for a large number of devices. This is not a reasonable expectation by any standard.
Add to that, the fact that rooting devices and flashing ROMs can quickly go bad if the user is not familiar with certain aspects of using a device that is rooted or flashed with a custom ROM, this makes for some rather difficult issues to solve due to user error, ignorance and inexperience of the user.
If you want a "safe" or "basic" ROM for a device, you'll have to learn how to build it yourself because I can promise you that no developer is willing to put that much time and effort into building ROMs that will only be used by a small number of users.
Sent from my LGL84VL using Tapatalk
So i'm getting a little impatient with the compromised version of android that my phone has (infected with Samsung's "custom" crap) and I want stock android bad. and there's no adequate phone on the market that offers this.
so I was thinking that I'd post a monetary reward for the first to accomplish my goal, to be paid by paypal or something. I just wasn't sure whether this is allowed by the forum rules, was hoping the mods or someone would let me know if so/not.
As there are BOUNTIES offered for things like Android on HP Touch etc.
I see no reason why you should not be allowed to offer a bounty for the creation of a rom for your specific android device.
Some mod might be able to confirm this.
What device are we talking about?
Falkner09 said:
So i'm getting a little impatient with the compromised version of android that my phone has (infected with Samsung's "custom" crap) and I want stock android bad. and there's no adequate phone on the market that offers this.
so I was thinking that I'd post a monetary reward for the first to accomplish my goal, to be paid by paypal or something. I just wasn't sure whether this is allowed by the forum rules, was hoping the mods or someone would let me know if so/not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I mean if the reward money offered is even able to get you some other phones (like a Nexus 1), why not get that instead and have the stock Android experience? Unless your phone is some obscure model that is not supported on these forums, I guess it's hard for other developers to have access to the relevant hardware as well, right?
chongyixiong said:
I mean if the reward money offered is even able to get you some other phones (like a Nexus 1), why not get that instead and have the stock Android experience? Unless your phone is some obscure model that is not supported on these forums, I guess it's hard for other developers to have access to the relevant hardware as well, right?
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because the phone I have (Sidekick) is currently the best phone on the market that has what I need. which is, first off, a keyboard. a real one. which neither of the Nexus phones (or likely, even the next one) has. also, I need the face buttons to be real, tactile, clickable buttons, no those capacitive substitutes. and minimum 1ghz. only other phone on the market with this is the Mytouch 4g slide, which is infected with Sense, a hacker mod so invasive and compromising i was actually disgusted. not to mention a worse keyboard.
You should probably get a phone with better dev support. Have you even looked at the ROM's available under the sidekicks dev section? I glanced and there is at least one AOSP like ROM...which you know as stock android. Same for the MT4G Slide...
Hello, xda community! My name is Jerome, and I have a pretty important favor to ask. Working in an english class in my college, I was asked to do a paper on a community and also have an interview for information. Going to this site for years, I decided to cover phone and tablet communities like this one, since it would be a paper I enjoy reading. However, I still need an interview for the paper, so I kindly ask if someone in this amazing forum who has done work in the field of phone hacking to answer some pretty simple questions (Don't worry, they're not extremely intrusive, and I don't need your real name).
1. How long have you been a part of this forum?
2. What devices have you tinkered with in the past (keep it within phones and tablets please)?
3. What device do you prefer (blackberry, apple, android, windows phone, etc)
4. Is making things like roms and kernels difficult? What are some challenges that you face?
5. Do you recommend everyone hack their devices?
6. What are the benefits of modding a device?
7. What got you into modding devices?
8. Because most of the modding content you do would sort of have to be free, what do you do as your profession (if you have one)?
I apologize ahead of time if I am breaking some sort of rule, but I would really like to hear an expert's response, not just for my paper, but simply because I am interested in this type of thing. If you could answer all those questions (and don't be afraid to give more detail, this is a 5 page paper), I would be extremely thankful. Thank you so much for your time!!!
Bump
Sir, be advised...Thank You
http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?a=81
16. Bumping Threads (posting simply to force a thread to the top of the thread queue)
Do not "bump" a thread more than once per 24 hours.
I don't consider myself an expert, far from that...
But I do realize how difficult an interview could be to a student, so I'll help you out on this one
megavoltaic said:
1. How long have you been a part of this forum?
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My join date as per my profile is 18th Nov 2011, but I had been lurking around from two months back...
I had no need to join before that...
2. What devices have you tinkered with in the past (keep it within phones and tablets please)?
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I personally own only a Samsung Galaxy Fit s5670, and a cheap chinese Android MID m799ca...
I have quite some knowledge for my phone, but I'll just be starting off for the tablet after my exams get over (around 2weeks from now)
I had played around with my father's Acer Liquid Metal...
I also have helped out a few friends get their Androids rooted, which include a HTC Desire Z, Samsung Galaxy Mini s5570, Ace s5830 & Young s5360...
I've also done a few phone firmware upgrades, though restricted myself to official methods...
I also occasionally help out my real life friends with low-level unrooted tinkering around...
Also jailbroken an iPhone 4...
3. What device do you prefer (blackberry, apple, android, windows phone, etc)
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I'm pretty open in this regard...
While my loyalties rest with Android, I'm quite attracted towards a little unconventional OS's like Meego and WebOS...
I absolutrly loved Meego, everything feels natural in it...too bad Nokia abandoned ship...
Depending on my need and situation, I'm not averse to using even iOS and Blackberry...
But I like the freedom of Android over all others...
4. Is making things like roms and kernels difficult? What are some challenges that you face?
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Click to collapse
Personally for me, rom and kernel development is difficult because most of the time I'm away from home and only have my mobile with me...
And with rom development, I mean true development, like building from source and contributing back...
I have had a few attempts at kang-ROM's and cooked ROM's, and a theme or two, but I wasn't satisfied with the result so I haven't shared it...
If I can't use it personally, its pointless sharing it...
On the point of view of an Android newbie, Rom and kernel development certainly has a learning curve...
Some may find it pretty steep, some may find it easy...it all depends on the resources at hand, and the persons willpower to learn...
But this shouldn't come as a surprise, as every technical field has a learning curve...
5. Do you recommend everyone hack their devices?
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Difficult question...
While I would recommend everyone to hack their devices, I certainly don't want everyone to do it...
Because "hacking" a device requires technical skills, but those technical skills are not present in everyone...
Infact, I would go on and even say that 15% of the public on XDA shouldn't have modded any part of their device...they certainly aren't worth the trouble they create...
6. What are the benefits of modding a device?
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Very device specific question, but the general answer that I could give is that modding a device allows you do things that your manufacturer or carrier didn't want you to do or thought your device is not capable of doing...
Basically freeing restrictions which are not required...
7. What got you into modding devices?
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I always was interested in electronics...
When I got my first Android, it had plenty of problems in it that I wasn't aware of before buying the phone...
So I searched around for possible solutions, landed up here and got interested in how things work...
8. Because most of the modding content you do would sort of have to be free, what do you do as your profession (if you have one)?
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Click to collapse
I'm a student
Pursuing my Bachelor's Degree in Commerce, along with a professional degree in Chartered Accountancy...
Stark contrast to the motive and resources of this forum
Any more questions, shoot! :beer:
- Via xda premium
Thank you so much for your input! The assignment is due literally 5 hours from now, and I was about to fake an interview. You have no idea how handy you came in. Again, Thanks!!!! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: