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T-Mobile sneaks "rootkit" into G2 phones - reinstalls locked-down OS after root
Not that there haven't been preventative measures before, but it looks like the G2 will be "unrootable" to start. Might be something to consider before jumping in with the G2. Very sad as this phone looks like a winner in all other ways.
Here is the original article on BoingBoing.
Hmmm... I'd be interested to know where the original OS ROM is stored, as that would take up a lot of space...
If it's true, then we next find how it "decides" it's rooted, and look at fooling that. If not, look at changing the image to be flashed with a custom ROM or dummy one.
Still failing that, perhaps looking into what calls this chip, and if boot process could be made to skip this.
Something seems strange about this, though I've not researched it properly yet... anyone seen it reported on other sources yet?
pulser_g2 said:
anyone seen it reported on other sources yet?
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http://gizmodo.com/5656921/t+mobiles-g2-rootkit-will-reinstall-stock-android-after-a-jailbreak
Master™ said:
http://gizmodo.com/5656921/t+mobiles-g2-rootkit-will-reinstall-stock-android-after-a-jailbreak
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Thanks, that links back to XDA, so I had a quick read of the latest... I was considering buying the G2/whatever it's called, but I have now changed my mind.
Yes folks, I just made a purchasing decision based on some silly little security chip, and I encourage others to do likewise. I am sure the security will be broken on it, at which point (if it's a permanent root/custom flash) I would re-consider my position, but as it stands, I refuse to buy it.
I have no idea who decided this was needed, but I certainly will not be buying from them in future. If it's T-Mobile, I will switch network (despite the fact they're a good network in the UK), if HTC I will look to other manufacturers.
[/rant
It's not that much different to what Motorola is doing with the Droid X, Droid 2 and Milestone, where if it detects any meddling it will brick the phone.
But in the long term, it's OUR phones, we can do whatever we please. Trust me it will be bypassed, if a lock can be made by a human, it can be BROKEN by a human. Look at the Desire for example.
They should do what they did with the N1, if the user unlocks the bootloader, and meddles with it until they bugger the phone, and they try sending it back for warranty, it's the users fault.
Just_s said:
Not that there haven't been preventative measures before, but it looks like the G2 will be "unrootable" to start. Might be something to consider before jumping in with the G2. Very sad as this phone looks like a winner in all other ways.
Here is the original article on BoingBoing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Explain to me how write protection == rootkit. In fact, it's quite the opposite - a rootkit (of sorts) allows us to exploit our way into a rootshell and install su to /system/bin/. This is nothing more than clever write-protection in the mmc.
And as usual, HTC is late on delivering the kernel source so we can really see what's up...
pulser_g2 said:
Yes folks, I just made a purchasing decision based on some silly little security chip, and I encourage others to do likewise. I am sure the security will be broken on it, at which point (if it's a permanent root/custom flash) I would re-consider my position, but as it stands, I refuse to buy it.
I have no idea who decided this was needed, but I certainly will not be buying from them in future. If it's T-Mobile, I will switch network (despite the fact they're a good network in the UK), if HTC I will look to other manufacturers.
[/rant
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Why would HTC look to other carriers?
I ranted about this back in the WinMo days, but XDA is essentially picking up the slack for manufacturer/carrier actions. You said so yourself; you're not considering the G2 for a purchase anymore....until XDA or another dev forum finds a way around the security measure. And you will not buy from them...so long as HTC doesn't work with the carrier anymore, but if sales remain the same, they'll have no reason to stop.
So manufacturers/carriers don't need to change the way they implement security measures, they just need to keep making desirable phones and so long as others pick up the slack, they'll be able to capture the sales of the userbase that likes rooting their phones. This is going to continue being the case -- Android manufacturers will create phones and users will buy the phones on the promise that forums like XDA will make it better.
For real change to occur, sales have to be greatly affected.
Looks like the anti-root movement is beginning to snowball into a full fledged avalanche. I currently have a Droid X and it seems its locked bootloader has cause many devs to give up. Sure we have root and a few roms and themes to get rid of bloatware, but it isn't as great as a full unlock, not to mention lack of a true SBF for OTA 2.2 users.
HTC was going to be my next choice after I got bored with my X in about a year or so (more like 6 months). But it seems now that they've developed this tech for the G2, I'm sure all other carriers will want it on all future HTC devices. As soon a Samsung steps it up and creates their own locked bootloader, we'll all be SOL. What's left? Dell? Sony Ericsson?
Seems like all carriers will only be selling phones with locked bootloaders. I thought HTC was on our side, but the G2 is proof of the contrary. We need a manufacturer that embraces devs. With the recent bootloader unlocking failures seen with the Droid X and the difficulty seen with the Milestone, does anyone here think the development community can overcome the bootloader challenge?
HTC response to G2 complaint
emailed HTC to voice my displeasure. rather than ignoring my email, they felt compelled to reply with some low level, non-commital, and utterly moronic dribble especially in light of t-mobile already having released its lame-o statement. i also find it rather questionable that google had any part in this. too bad that HTC is following the Motorola model of duping folks into thinking they bought a device when all that money actually just buys time-limited, pre-defined functionality.
Without root Android wont be the same, looks like I'll be going back to Winders if this is the direction they are going to take it. They are taking all the fun out of it.
Linky to story
Wow, so we help HTC get to the place they are today (and don't underestimate our contribution) and this is the thanks.
Glad I'm getting a Dell in 2 months.
(Please tell me I misunderstand!)
MOD EDIT: PLEASE MIND THE LANGUAGE YOU USE ON XDA. YOUR TITLE WAS NOT SUITABLE AT ALL. EDITED. PLEASE CONSIDER THIS A WARNING, BREAKING THE RULES AGAIN CAN LEAD TO A VACATION.PLEASE CONTROL YOUR EMOTIONS.
for some reason i feel the opposite towards this.
I am glad that they put a hardware chip that can bring the phone back to factory default settings. They probably did this because so many people had bricked their phones with no real way to get them back up and running so they had to send them in.... This way it should eliminate that whole process....
why this is good?
It will be cracked, and will give modders room to store custom roms or clockwork recovery on this... or.....
A MOD CHIP!!!! imagine a small mod chip that could enable or disable the chip. You muck up your phone, hit the switch... go back to factory defaults.
Reminds me of the old Playstations where I had to go get them chipped to be modded.
First off it was a pretty good read. Personally I would take this as yet another reason to keep up the awesome work done by the fine programmers here on XDA! Give them something else to "access & modify".
All in all, I never got the feeling of "eff off". But then again, that was just me.
What a whiner. Every day I'm more and more disgusted by some of the people on here. What have you personally done to help HTC aside from maybe buy a phone of theirs? What have they done for you? Oh, they gave you a miracle of modern technology. The ability to have a phone in your pocket which is amazing by itself, forget the fact that it can look up maps, browse the internet, play music and videos, etc.
What about people who don't even have phones?
You're sitting here complaining because of issues rooting a phone which YOU DONT EVEN OWN or intend to buy judging from your comments.
Let me also ask you this: Is the ability to root a phone a feature that is advertised or standard on any devices? Are phone manufactures supposed to be supporting this?
deathsled said:
What a whiner. Every day I'm more and more disgusted by some of the people on here. What have you personally done to help HTC aside from maybe buy a phone of theirs? What have they done for you? Oh, they gave you a miracle of modern technology. The ability to have a phone in your pocket which is amazing by itself, forget the fact that it can look up maps, browse the internet, play music and videos, etc.
What about people who don't even have phones?
You're sitting here complaining because of issues rooting a phone which YOU DONT EVEN OWN or intend to buy judging from your comments.
Let me also ask you this: Is the ability to root a phone a feature that is advertised or standard on any devices? Are phone manufactures supposed to be supporting this?
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Click to collapse
wow, you have some issues going on there don't you (Apart from not being able to read)
Pretty much anyone thats posted on here has helped in one way or another, by answering peoples technical queries etc.
Your right, I don't own the phone and I certainly intend NOT to buy one now. I was going to be tempted as I prefer open phones rather than locked down ... but not now. If I'm going to be locked down I may as well get a good one. If your on these boards then you must know that HTC "stock" roms are usualy rubbish. Buy this at your peril.
No it's not an advertised feature but HTC have unofficialy endorsed this site, so they want there cake and eat it?
and what an irrelevant thing to say:
"What about people who don't even have phones?"
Tell ya what, i'll raise ya, what about all the starving people in Africa!
p.s. i've not commited to the Lightning but its certainly the front runner.... unless something else comes out.
deathsled said:
What a whiner. Every day I'm more and more disgusted by some of the people on here. What have you personally done to help HTC aside from maybe buy a phone of theirs? What have they done for you? Oh, they gave you a miracle of modern technology. The ability to have a phone in your pocket which is amazing by itself, forget the fact that it can look up maps, browse the internet, play music and videos, etc.
What about people who don't even have phones?
You're sitting here complaining because of issues rooting a phone which YOU DONT EVEN OWN or intend to buy judging from your comments.
Let me also ask you this: Is the ability to root a phone a feature that is advertised or standard on any devices? Are phone manufactures supposed to be supporting this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would you be happy if you bought a car and told you you went allowed to mod it or accessorise it? What someone does with their own device is none of anyone elses business INCLUDING the manufacturer and provider. If I buy a sponge cake I should be able to add whatever decorations and icing I want, If I buy a PC I should be able to install whatever OS and programs I want. Is that so hard to understand?
hungry81 said:
Would you be happy if you bought a car and told you you went allowed to mod it or accessorise it? What someone does with their own device is none of anyone elses business INCLUDING the manufacturer and provider. If I buy a sponge cake I should be able to add whatever decorations and icing I want, If I buy a PC I should be able to install whatever OS and programs I want. Is that so hard to understand?
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hard to understand? not at all.
also, not true. you can't legally install apple OS on non-apple hardware. you can't legally alter an iphone. you can't legally mod your car with NOS or any number of other things.
there are still laws, and company policy to take into consideration. your argument is furthered by the fact that android is open source - but what that REALLY means is that Android can be thrown on any manufacturers phone with no limitations - NOT that any phone that has android HAS no limitations.
I WISH the world allowed us to do whatever we wanted without ourselves and our possessions, but that is simply not the case.
digibucc said:
hard to understand? not at all.
also, not true. you can't legally install apple OS on non-apple hardware. you can't legally alter an iphone. you can't legally mod your car with NOS or any number of other things.
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Actually you can. You may not be allowed to take it on public roads, but you can do whatever you want with your car on private property as long as it dosent cause injury or damage to others property or other mischief.
digibucc said:
there are still laws, and company policy to take into consideration. your argument is furthered by the fact that android is open source - but what that REALLY means is that Android can be thrown on any manufacturers phone with no limitations - NOT that any phone that has android HAS no limitations.
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Click to collapse
And why should people sit back silently if they dont agree with this? Why should they be able to advertise the good features of the device without anyone mentioning the significant drawbacks?
digibucc said:
I WISH the world allowed us to do whatever we wanted without ourselves and our possessions, but that is simply not the case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At the moment You CAN do whatever you want with YOUR posessions as long as it does not cause harm or injury to other persons or property. There is no excuse for treating these devices differently. If you feel that flashing is illegal, I would have to ask what you are doing on XDA?
hungry81 said:
Would you be happy if you bought a car and told you you went allowed to mod it or accessorise it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe if I was actually going to buy the car. What if instead I just chose to ***** about a car that I had no plans on buying?
deathsled said:
Maybe if I was actually going to buy the car. What if instead I just chose to ***** about a car that I had no plans on buying?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK -
so first, where did I say I was never interested in this phone? If you care to take a look at my posting history you will see I'm desperate for a phone with a keyboard. (ROM issue aside) I did take a look at this phone but the screen is just a little too small for me and I just don't personaly like Android. If this is your ONLY argument, then you know you really have no argument - move along please, nothing to see here.
Second, you seem to be missing the grand picture. You see all those subforums for each phone right? Pay particular attention to the "ROMs" subforums for EACH phone.... delete them. IF I understand this correctly, none of the new phones (assuming they all employ this) will have cooked ROMs. Why do you think most of us are here? Thats right, because HTC ROMs out of the box are crap... cooked ROMs have certainly saved my use of HTC phones and to be honest, are one of the priamary reasons I would buy a HTC phone (and have!).
Third, if you had any idea what I was talking about you would know that this is not so much about the "phone" itself but the very fact that cooked ROMs will no longer be possible. If it was about the phone, I would have posted it in the G2 section.
So in summary, (and this might be hard for you) please, try to focus on the new "feature" of the phone rather than the phone itself. Also, try to stop assuming facts like I was never going to buy this phone and really, if this is the best discussion point you can bring, please use the "unsubscribe" option - do us all a favour.
Monty Burns said:
wow, you have some issues going on there don't you (Apart from not being able to read)
Pretty much anyone thats posted on here has helped in one way or another, by answering peoples technical queries etc.
Your right, I don't own the phone and I certainly intend NOT to buy one now. I was going to be tempted as I prefer open phones rather than locked down ... but not now. If I'm going to be locked down I may as well get a good one. If your on these boards then you must know that HTC "stock" roms are usualy rubbish. Buy this at your peril.
No it's not an advertised feature but HTC have unofficialy endorsed this site, so they want there cake and eat it?
and what an irrelevant thing to say:
"What about people who don't even have phones?"
Tell ya what, i'll raise ya, what about all the starving people in Africa!
p.s. i've not commited to the Lightning but its certainly the front runner.... unless something else comes out.
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Click to collapse
Death, I'll take your lack of acknowlegdment or response to this post as an appology.
No problem, its OK.
hungry81 said:
If you feel that flashing is illegal, I would have to ask what you are doing on XDA?
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Would you, have to?
I don't "feel" it is illegal. I don't believe it is wrong - but they have the legal right to tell me it is. that doesn't mean i won't do it anyway - I just don't lie to myself and say it is allowed... even if I believe that it should be.
there's a difference between recognizing the law and following it. I'm not saying I don't agree, that it sucks that they will lock out ROMs. BUT - I've got my Evo and it will last me for years, so i really don't care.
it's called reality. I'm not arguing that your opinion is wrong - i'm highlighting that it is just your opinion, and in this world they don't mean much.
tell you what though - you go ahead and organize the rally and once you get more than 1,000 people signed up i'll join.
let me know.
Monty Burns said:
MOD EDIT: PLEASE MIND THE LANGUAGE YOU USE ON XDA. YOUR TITLE WAS NOT SUITABLE AT ALL. EDITED. PLEASE CONSIDER THIS A WARNING, BREAKING THE RULES AGAIN CAN LEAD TO A VACATION.PLEASE CONTROL YOUR EMOTIONS.
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Hi Mr Anon,
I must have missed the bit where I swore....? I remember putting a few **'s in... oh wait, I wasn't swearing there, just pointing out that I used **'s.... er.... um.... oh dear. They are used much like Beeps on tv....
Whatever, its only a forum, gues must be the end of the world to lose access for "beeps"
I have seen some threads for kids apps. I am interested in finding/building a kids ROM.
My child has a prepaid SIM card and RAZR to be used for certain situations. I would want to be able to let my child carry the phone all the time but restrict what numbers could be called.
So my idea, which can't be an original one, is leverage Android power to install a rooted ROM but run in user mode when I give it to my child. User mode could restrict calling to the phone book only or restrict wi-fi/data access; basically anything that you wanted to restrict or remove. Maybe there could be a ROM builder.
I have many scenarios in mind but maybe they could all be solved by software apps instead of getting into a custom ROM? I'm tech savvy, but haven't ever done a ROM. If the answer is to develop a custom ROM, what device should I choose that would get the most community support? I figure it would be a low end phone, since the point is to make a children's rom.
May I ask how old is your child?
[Sig] dId you know? If you Insert a Coin on your Desire, then it levels up to HD, Z or S :[/Sig]
i was thinking of my son when you mentioned this, it is a great i dea, and i also thought if the original att kid's phone that was out a few years back. it was revamped and it sucked. but good luck on either building one or have some one make one ( put a bounty on it?)
Phones and ROMs
My child is 8 years old. I figure in a few years that it would be fine, but it seems like there would be more of a market for this.
I would put up a bounty for it but I'd prefer to make this a community effort too.
So I will change tack here and ask what the best ROM might be for me to start with and what phones might be recommended? I'm figuring that CM would be easiest to start with, generically?
Thoughts?
I think that is a very good idea.
A good part of that could be accoimplished with a kids theme on an existing ROM.
im sorry but the RAZR is a dumb-phone! it doesnt support 3rd party modding. im afraid you are mistaking the word 'ROM' and actually don't know what it means! You will have no luck finding such ROM for the RAZR... A bootloader of any sort does not exist!
You need a smartphone if you want such a job done, but it requires a investment into a smartphone which are generally more expensive and not intended for 'kids'
I understand...
@olyloh6696: Thanks for looking in on the thread!
You misunderstood what I was explaining. She _currently_ has a RAZR. I want to figure out what the best GSM _android_ phone would be to do the project I'm describing would be. I would of course have to get the new phone; I do understand that the RAZR does not support android (dumbphone).
Any thoughts on phone model or something out there like this already?
rykerwilliams said:
@olyloh6696: Thanks for looking in on the thread!
You misunderstood what I was explaining. She _currently_ has a RAZR. I want to figure out what the best GSM _android_ phone would be to do the project I'm describing would be. I would of course have to get the new phone; I do understand that the RAZR does not support android (dumbphone).
Any thoughts on phone model or something out there like this already?
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Click to collapse
hi
well i guess the best option for a relatively cheap phone (that has android) is the zte blade (in my sig) it is a british phone, but gsm, so i think it should work in the us. if you read reviews for it, it has specs of the desire, nexus one, etc in a cheap budget range. read some revies on it! it also cost £100. Not sure what your budget is though. before you set out to buy the phone, you may need to look up a rom that supports the requirements you want, or you could request one/build your own.
good luck
Unrelated, but the RAZR does support modding lol. Back in the day, pre-Android, I used to hack the hell out of my Razr. There's even a hidden feature called Club Lights that uses the phone's microphone to detect music and make the lights on the phone go with the beat. Youtube it.
That's a great idea... it would be great on a tablet too.
I'm always worried that my son is going to click around in the market and download tons of apps without know it.
Remove Dialer.app, replace with custom Dialer.app
Is the source for the Dialer.app known, i.e. part of the main trunk of the Android sources? I was just thinking that it might not be too hard to just modify that original source to limit it only to the "contacts" tab, that way you can only call the contacts tab.
Another feature I thought of is using some kind of Dynamic DNS client to be able to dial in to the phone.
I was thinking that there could be a "phone home" app that would call home and report the currently used minutes and GPS coordinates, or similar.
Just trying to get the features set worked out and find out if there is existing apps that do this stuff.
2018, quick google search for Kids Custom ROM.... dead thread no progress. There is definitely a market for this, since it's easy to shove a phone into an OtterBox like case and let them have at it with safe guards. My kid has had an Ipad since age 2 without issue. Now she asks for my phone on occasion (years later). It would be easier to just take a custom ROM shove it on a cheap device and give it to her.
Sure, I am a minority, definitely but I can't consider myself the only person who would want to do this.
This is what I'm looking for my child. I'm a software engeneer but I've never works on Android. I think it's not a great works for an Android developer.
I'll follow this post for news.
digging this one up again. anyway to take something like at Nexux 5x and put a totally stripped down version of android on it to achieve something like the lightphone?
nvrpunk said:
2018, quick google search for Kids Custom ROM.... dead thread no progress. There is definitely a market for this, since it's easy to shove a phone into an OtterBox like case and let them have at it with safe guards. My kid has had an Ipad since age 2 without issue. Now she asks for my phone on occasion (years later). It would be easier to just take a custom ROM shove it on a cheap device and give it to her.
Sure, I am a minority, definitely but I can't consider myself the only person who would want to do this.
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Click to collapse
Per capita, there are very few people that actually root or flash custom ROMs, the number of kids that could/would use such a ROM is even less than that, this means it is not worth a developers time and hard work to build a ROM for this purpose, especially considering the plethora of different devices out there in the world. There would not be enough kids using "this" or "that" device with "this" or "that" custom ROM. To be as convenient for kids as what you are asking about, there would have to be a "kids ROM" for a large number of devices. This is not a reasonable expectation by any standard.
Add to that, the fact that rooting devices and flashing ROMs can quickly go bad if the user is not familiar with certain aspects of using a device that is rooted or flashed with a custom ROM, this makes for some rather difficult issues to solve due to user error, ignorance and inexperience of the user.
If you want a "safe" or "basic" ROM for a device, you'll have to learn how to build it yourself because I can promise you that no developer is willing to put that much time and effort into building ROMs that will only be used by a small number of users.
Sent from my LGL84VL using Tapatalk
You wonder why I post this, I get it. Personal experience warrants that I tell you about this Verizon tab.
Locked bootloader
No netflix
No skype for front camera
And this is my basis to start this frustration rant. Either Samsung or the android os in general is not popular enough to push these technologies to be developed for the latest and greatest droid device and honeycomb.
Please understand I love droid and am anti ipad/apple. But the fact is I bought an ipad2 last night and I am doing all the things I can't on the Samsung.
Don't tell me to sideload anything. It simply does not work on the Verizon model. I want to root but no support has been lended to me and many others on this and many other droid sites. Including the Samsung forum site.
If there appears to be a way to root, then no one has a reversing flash for it.
In general, new technology or not, the apps should be there. When paying the equivalent price of an ipad the android tab should blow the freaking doors off apple. I've got em both right here and the ipad2 just kicked the bajesus out of this 10.1
Proprietary skiz and all for nothing more than me being able to log in get apps and have them work without bootlegging, voiding warranties and sideload this and that.
now before you go calling me a troll or a hater...
I have a
Dx2 and so does my wife
I hada first gen droid and ran chevy ss
Xoom
Samsung galxy 10.1
And now because droid is not "mainstream" enough a damn apple ipad2 in my house. What the hello, droid os is now officially pissing me off. I know that it is not the os fault but, really I disagree. If droid was selling tabs at half the rate of apples ipad then this freaking rant would never have been written and my azz would never considered looking at a freaking lemming apple ipad anything.
Maybe somebody here knows somebody that will forward this along because this kind lf crap right here. Droid developers not taking availability of apps seriously is what killed IBM in the 80's by thinking home pcs in every house was a farce.
droid development needs to lobby payoff incentavize whatever the hello they need to do to get service providers to write for droid if they want to command a price equal or greater than apple.
please do whatever you do agree or disagree but do not attack me personally or belittle my intelligence. I am neither a kid or dummy. I like technology but I do not like beating my head against the wall trying hours in vain to get something to work just to find out it won't.
I could go on but Why?
Sent from my SCH-I905 using Tapatalk
It doesn't have locked bootloader... does it
Sent from my SCH-I500 using xda premium
to the OP.....you do understand the difference between "Droid" and Android, right? "Droid" is just Verizon's marketing campaign for SPECIFIC android devices (Motorola Droid, HTC Droid Incredible, Samsung Droid Charge). MOD EDIT: REMOVED OFFENSIVE WORDS. you purchased a carrier specific tablet, not a WiFi model. therefore, development for said device will only move forward considering more people decide to buy it. theres plenty of development for the WiFi version of the GT10.1.
as for locked bootloaders.......actually, Samsung doesn't ever lock bootloaders, from what i understand. HTC has been known to, and Motorola is notorious at it. Samsung and i believe LG have the easiest exploits when it comes to rooting.
BTW, the Honeycomb source code hasn't been released for any device, probably not until ICS drops.
thachosenone said:
to the OP.....you do understand the difference between "Droid" and Android, right? "Droid" is just Verizon's marketing campaign for SPECIFIC android devices (Motorola Droid, HTC Droid Incredible, Samsung Droid Charge). so to say "droid development" just makes you sound ignorant. you purchased a carrier specific tablet, not a WiFi model. therefore, development for said device will only move forward considering more people decide to buy it. theres plenty of development for the WiFi version of the GT10.1.
as for locked bootloaders.......actually, Samsung doesn't ever lock bootloaders, from what i understand. HTC has been known to, and Motorola is notorious at it. Samsung and i believe LG have the easiest exploits when it comes to rooting.
BTW, the Honeycomb source code hasn't been released for any device, probably not until ICS drops.
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Click to collapse
Really? Are you serious? Droid, Android,,,,, again Really? Yes I do understand that a droid is a phone and android is an operating system. Did you not see the reference to honeycomb etc..? Forgive me I don't mean to be disrespectful......this is just not the kind of response I'm looking for.
I'm sorry if my abbreviations confused you.
For locked bootloader again not an idiot the bootloader is locked. is that really a surprise dealing with big red. Samsung is doing what they are told I guess. Not only is the bootloader locked don't flash this puppy with odin or you will be unable to wipe or return to virgin setup.
PERIOD! at least with the current means and methods on the net.
Samsung wifi models some were shipped with unlocked bootloaders but not Verizon models. Again! I am only referencing the 4g model so any other make model manufacturer is completely irrelevant.
I have had 3 of these in my hands they are all on lockdown. They also are telling people 4g must be activated to get owner registration......the first one I returned doa to the selling dealer but big red corporate would not exchange it because I didn't HVE 4g turned on so in their system I didn't even show owning the product.
I could go on and on.
point is everything in the original post in 100% true and accurate and knowledge from my personal hands on experience.
I am hoping that someone takes it personally and gets some interest in mastering this device. I pretty much root all my devices but after bringing my first one Bck to lofe 4 times and never getting superuser I am in a holding position until full accurate knowledgable instructions on how to unlock bootloader, backup, root, unroot. I am waiting.
Truth again, the post was not about rooting but the fact that the android development team had better start using some power in their speech to people like skype, netflix, and any other major player on behalf of us the people that buy android devices or we are and are gonna continue to be pissed if they don't get it and that means we will buy other peoples stuff ya know,,,the whole supply demand free market concept?...
Especially when I go pay the same price for an ipad2 and all the skizz I want is a click away for free and with no effort or time wasted in a forum on why my stuff doesnt offer main stream popular sh#%!
Sent from my SCH-I905 using Tapatalk
thachosenone said:
to the OP.....you do understand the difference between "Droid" and Android, right? "Droid" is just Verizon's marketing campaign for SPECIFIC android devices (Motorola Droid, HTC Droid Incredible, Samsung Droid Charge). . you purchased a carrier specific tablet, not a WiFi model. therefore, development for said device will only move forward considering more people decide to buy it. theres plenty of development for the WiFi version of the GT10.1.
as for locked bootloaders.......actually, Samsung doesn't ever lock bootloaders, from what i understand. HTC has been known to, and Motorola is notorious at it. Samsung and i believe LG have the easiest exploits when it comes to rooting.
BTW, the Honeycomb source code hasn't been released for any device, probably not until ICS drops.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One last thing. To pick up on one keyword "droid development" while overlooking the entire context of the post after in that same post disclaiming that I did not want anyone to attack or belittle me and you then state that I appear IGNORANT? Well maybe it will to some, but, what you just did makes you appear far worse. Imho...
Sent from my SCH-I905 using Tapatalk
marksnet said:
You wonder why I post this, I get it. Personal experience warrants that I tell you about this Verizon tab.
Locked bootloader
No netflix
No skype for front camera
And this is my basis to start this frustration rant. Either Samsung or the android os in general is not popular enough to push these technologies to be developed for the latest and greatest *droid* device and honeycomb.
Please understand I love *droid* and am anti ipad/apple. But the fact is I bought an ipad2 last night and I am doing all the things I can't on the Samsung.
Don't tell me to sideload anything. It simply does not work on the Verizon model. I want to root but no support has been lended to me and many others on this and many other *droid* sites. Including the Samsung forum site.
If there appears to be a way to root, then no one has a reversing flash for it.
In general, new technology or not, the apps should be there. When paying the equivalent price of an ipad the android tab should blow the freaking doors off apple. I've got em both right here and the ipad2 just kicked the bajesus out of this 10.1
Proprietary skiz and all for nothing more than me being able to log in get apps and have them work without bootlegging, voiding warranties and sideload this and that.
now before you go calling me a troll or a hater...
I have a
Dx2 and so does my wife
I hada first gen *droid* and ran chevy ss
Xoom
Samsung galxy 10.1
And now because *droid* is not "mainstream" enough a damn apple ipad2 in my house. What the hello, *droid* os is now officially pissing me off. I know that it is not the os fault but, really I disagree. If *droid* was selling tabs at half the rate of apples ipad then this freaking rant would never have been written and my azz would never considered looking at a freaking lemming apple ipad anything.
Maybe somebody here knows somebody that will forward this along because this kind lf crap right here. *Droid* developers not taking availability of apps seriously is what killed IBM in the 80's by thinking home pcs in every house was a farce.
*droid* development needs to lobby payoff incentavize whatever the hello they need to do to get service providers to write for *droid* if they want to command a price equal or greater than apple.
please do whatever you do agree or disagree but do not attack me personally or belittle my intelligence. I am neither a kid or dummy. I like technology but I do not like beating my head against the wall trying hours in vain to get something to work just to find out it won't.
I could go on but Why?
Sent from my SCH-I905 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
look above....i didnt just pick out ONE time you used "droid" to describe something that runs android. so yeah....you sound REALLY ignorant. You literally used "Droid" 10 times
and regarding bootloaders:
http://rootzwiki.com/showthread.php?2511-ROOT-RECOVERY-Galaxy-Tab-10.1-LTE&
all i had to do was google "galaxy tab 10.1 LTE Recovery"....do you know how to google something??
so yeah.......
I'm surprised that you have been allowed to start a thread which expresses your own personal opinion. I've had a thread removed to the Off-Topic Forum because I did that.
Gaugerer said:
I'm surprised that you have been allowed to start a thread which expresses your own personal opinion. I've had a thread removed to the Off-Topic Forum because I did that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They may yet censor me but, the title says opinion the body of the post is all fact. We shall see.
Sent from my SCH-I905 using Tapatalk
thachosenone said:
look above....i didnt just pick out ONE time you used "droid" to describe something that runs android. so yeah....you sound REALLY ignorant. You literally used "Droid" 10 times
and regarding bootloaders:
http://rootzwiki.com/showthread.php?2511-ROOT-RECOVERY-Galaxy-Tab-10.1-LTE&
all i had to do was google "galaxy tab 10.1 LTE Recovery"....do you know how to google something??
so yeah.....
I've seen the post and it works but it doesn't return the device back to stock. also again you fail to see where rooting was not the point of the above post. It was one point out of many.
So I was in a hurry and didn't put an in front of droid each time. I did however say
Droid device
Droid os
Etc..
To a common sense individual they got it.
To someone interested in ignoring the subject, offering no solution, as I am guessing you are not a developer, and being negative you Win!
I'm ignorant yea you win now please go away.
So glad we got that straight.
Bye bye now.
Mark
Sent from my SCH-I905 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But if you have a custom recovery, couldn't you just make a cwm backup when you first get it? Then that would return it to stock when you restore that backup.
They don't drop source code for honeycomb. That's just how they do it.
you further perpetuate the misconception that "Droids" are anything with Android on it. It's bad enough when people who know nothing of rooting and such call it "Droid". But you're on xda.
And I've contributed to the community a lot more then you have man. You've only offered this rant.
And every post, on here, I've still offered some sort of answer or advice.
Don't be one if those people that come on here to demand people to develop for the device you bought. Be happy with what is offered and have patience. All you accomplished on your OP is sounding like a jackass with buyers remorse.
And GTFO with your iPad.
For some reason no you cannot flash cwm. Theres a ton of people posting on this and why it sends the tab into a bootloop. There are also multiple post on this forum and others where people are asking for the stock image due to this.
There is also a post where rooting instructions are clear and precise. One problem. The links are broken and no longer valid.
I do not further perpetuate anything. You may perceive it that way because you have the inability to look at a forest instead of a frikken tree.
I have stated enough times that I do understand that Android is an O.s. and that "droid" is a phone device produced by motorola, although I never mentioned moto.
Geez.. Also I stated in my OP that I bought the ipad2 for comparison. I do not want the ipad2 as I have invested way too much in market apps and gmail to start the wallet all over with apple apps. However, now that I have an ipad2, I dont hate it. It's a good machine. If that makes me bad then ok, whatever.
My first post was done largely abbreviated and maybe i didnt convey my points or angle well enough. I'll concede that but, I was typing on my samsung tablet and was just trying to get some action on the topic. The last thing I wanted was for someone to make it their mission to point out what was wrong line by line but, hey whatever.
Simply put just in case my original post was written ineffectively on my tablet. I am on my desktop now and the keyboard is much more effective than trying to type a letter on the tablet, let me reexplain my op.
Simply put,
I prefer the Android O.s.
I like the samsung tablet.
The memory, processor, flash, a million things I see potential in.
However, when I analyze something I also analyze as if or from a consumer standpoint and maybe not so much a dev. standpoint.
By this alone I think that the people/powers that be need to wake up and push the big boys like skype, netflix, etc... to make apps that will be compatible with the latest and greatest release of not only the O.s. but the hardware devices that come from HTC, Moto, Samsung, lg, etc....
In order to get mass appeal from consumers ****e is gonna have to work or people will opt for what does work.
Right now the samsung 10.1 wifi's only work netflix on some platforms not all.
Right now the samsung 10.1 wifis and lte models will not do skype with the front cam.. so no video on either side.
ALSO TRUE FOR XOOM
These are just 2 apps but, they are "THE" two apps that alot of people converting to tabs are wanting.
Contrary to popular belief most people buy tabs to eff off with. They are not hot like a laptop, they surf relatively well, but everyday consumers want to skype, netflix, check email, all of it.
They do not want to be in front of a desktop with their tablet hooked up via usb hacking and sacking the images, custom roms, etc... That is a few of which I am one of but, even I grow tired and frustrated when I brick ****e and screw it up but, really, just to get netflix loaded. No way man, I want to click and install enter my username and watch my son watch his movies.
Yeah its fun getting them working again but, with this thing.......It's all for nothing. I still dont have the full potential of this device because it simply will not do it.
Apple ipad2 does both of these out of the box with no trickery. Just search and download.
That may not be a problem for you as a senior member and expert at going thru the work of sideloading apps etc...... but, for mom at the grocery store. She's gonna pick what works with the click of a button.
Android devices and The Android O.s. developers are going to have to be compelled to make the ****e work on their devices if they want to take the sales to the next level. This is not my opinion at all. This is just fact. You can have a great hardware device and a sporty o.s. but, if there is no software available for it, or apps in this case then you have nothing and you certainly dont have buyers for it.
Ipad sales compared to android type tab devices are not even in the same universe. Ipad sales are smashing Android based tabs. Not because they have been out longer either.
Why is that? Well people are sheep for one! I get it but, how does Android smash Apple? Well they do it by #1 advertising, #2 being better (measurably), (which I believe they already are) , but they also have to, have to, have to, offer at least what the ipad will do and more.
Come on man, I'm not asking for the world here.
To be better when you are the underdog you have to be twice as good. NOt from a hardware standpoint but, from all of it. Cosmetics, function, hardware,cost,more apps, better graphics. etc...
Android has done most of this but, not all of it. The apps lacking in the market have got to catch up immediately or people will continue doing what they have been doing. Buying ipads
Again, this is what the post was about. You just think that Android and hardware is good now. Get them (the Android stiffs) the revenue stream that Apple has and then we will "really" see some cool stuff.
this may be the one negative about open source. If the people making the apps and the people making the devices, and the people making the upgrades to the O.s. are not all working together then Android will not be "THE" player, they will just be "A" player in the sea of other players.
I am also not demanding anyone develop for my specific tablet. I really dont care if they do or not. But, if that is the attitude of a tablet that is supposed to be "THE" tablet for the Android flagship right now, that's a bad attitude or stance for them to take when basic apps are not even offered or if they do they will not work. Not exactly how your gonna get susie away from the apple store. Again, this is simply about marketing, and retail appeal.
Develop, dont develop, the market wins only players lose.
On a personal note.
By the way, I have not one time condemned or attacked you. You have insisted on calling me names and being sarcastic to me each time you post. Please let me say that it was not my intent to offend you. This post was not about you or the fact that you help people or dont help people on this site.
I would like you to stop calling me ignorant and telling me to GTFO and such about an ipad, after I said that I was pro android.
I will say one thing about the comparison of the 2.
Apple kicks the samsung on two major things:
Keyboard does not lag on apple. I am always backspacing corrections on the samsung.
Apple has apps, our android market does not.
Now I'll compare the Xoom and The Samsung 10.1
I like the xoom better. At least netflix works on it.
However, skype does not so Apple still wins in flexibility of apps.
I like the hardware and acceleration of the samsung 10.1 over all of them.
I am not sure what gives on the keyboard lag? Sucks.
This is exactly why I placed in my original post that I was not hating on Android and I did not want personal attacks.
I am asking you to please stop. I am not interested in name calling.
Continue if you must but, I will not engage in calling you names.
At all
Please keep discussion on topic and do not use offensive words
..........
Sent from my DROID3 using XDA App
Its Android not Droid dammit!
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda premium
Well put Android os is really getting old with exclusive apps for certain devices or with verizon with there own app store. Don't they know they would make more Money releasing to everyone duh. If a old ass iphone 4g can play high end games why not my duel core sensation ? Or in your case the tablet.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App
Well put Android os is really getting old with exclusive apps for certain devices or with verizon with there own app store. Don't they know they would make more Money releasing to everyone duh. If a old ass iphone 4g can play high end games why not my duel core sensation ? Or in your case the tablet.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Finally someone that looks past jargon and looks at subject matter!!!!! Another common sense human on here! What strange feeling this is,,,,
Sent from my SCH-I905 using Tapatalk
Man... Everything in here by the OP is nonsensical and tough to read.
z33dev33l said:
Man... Everything in here by the OP is nonsensical and tough to read.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
Update!
Netflix is not in the market but there is an apk for it now and it works!
Skype folks say they are working on a solutionno time commitment though.
Clockwork and roms still limited but will come in time hopefully.
Sent from my SCH-I905 using Tapatalk
marksnet said:
You wonder why I post this, I get it. Personal experience warrants that I tell you about this Verizon tab.
Locked bootloader
No netflix
No skype for front camera
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In reply to all three: BULL****! I have had a Verizon Galaxy Tab 10.1 for many months and:
1. The bootloader is not and was not ever locked
2. Netflix patch was trivial to install (and it runs great)
3. Skype does support the front camera (as of its most recent release a couple months ago)
Other than that, rooting the device was just as simple as installing Netflix.
Alright, so after reading a couple articles on a bunch of sites. I can sort of understand a vicious cycle that's going on in the mobile development world.
First off, let me begin, Mobile OEMs (as we all know) don't release updates very often. And as a general rule, when they do... it's usually a couple months late. Just look at HTC devices, most of the (somewhat) older devices (depending on what you're definition of older is) aren't getting the updates to ICS for while http://goo.gl/FjcMJ . And in some cases they just decide not to update them at all. (see the Desire HD and possibly the Thunderbolt http://goo.gl/BwZld )
Initially when Android started, this was a little different. And allow me to clarify by going far far back, to the first Android device. The HTC Dream.
It initially came out with Android 1.0 (Astro) it eventually got updated all the way to the software version 1.5 (Cupcake). If you look back then, that's two software updates! Astro to Bender to Cupcake.
Now let's look at just about any other Android device (not made my Samsung, for the most part they're a bad example... (of course then again, they have the head of Cyanogenmod Steve Kondik on their team).
We're going to look at Motorola, because despite the fact that it's owned by Google, not all of their devices have received updates. And the device I've chosen from them is the defy. Now if you look over at the development section of the forums you'll see that we have a working (and apparently a very smooth) port of Jelly Bean for the Defy. http://goo.gl/mE1Qy
But if you decide to see what Motorola's deciding to do to update it from Gingerbread, well... their development section is devoid of everything for the Defy... http://goo.gl/g8XN0
Now why does that matter to us happy go lucky developers and modders? Well let's look over this little scenario I've played out in my head more than once.
CEO#1 "Oh they want Jelly Bean?"
CEO#2 "Yeah they do..."
CEO#1 "So what are we going to do about it?"
CEO#2 *checks XDA* "Nothing, the ones who really care about it have a working ROM up already."
CEO#1 "Okay, sounds good to me. So are you ready to go make some more phones with high specs and outdated software?"
CEO#2 "Well if we start now, we should be able to get six new devices running ICS 4.0.3 out by mid December!"
CEO#1 "Ohh, not even having the latest version of ICS is really going to get them. Brilliant!"
This is a vicious cycle that just keeps going around, and around, and around. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a way to stop it. While we need Superuser and rooting privileges, we also need updates to the latest version of Android OS to keep us going.
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates. The problem is that with their history of sending out updates we really can't stop working. And even when they do send out updates, sometimes they aren't even fully stable! (see Evo 3D http://goo.gl/VzCNM )
So the question is, how are we going to stop this?
Buy devices from the companies that keep things up to date. The Nexus gets direct pushes from Google so you know you're good there. Sony has a dedicated line to developers through their forums and even offers devices for temporary dev use and has reasonably priced unsubsidised phones.
Put your dollars in the right places if you want to make change happen. Those who want full access still aren't a large enough part of the market to shape everything. That said, people pushing for control have made sure that iDevices can be jailbroken and HTC is staggering hard because of mis-steps in marketing that have been worsened by lackluster updates and their decision to shun the dev community that was bolstering them.
They can't look at xda or whatever Android forum because there is a larger population of users who have no idea what rooting is, let alone custom ROMs. Those people depend on updates and if they won't get an official update, they won't get one at all.
Sent from my MB508 using xda premium
If you ask 10 Android users what version of Android they are on, 8 of them will have no clue, 1 will know because the sales rep used it as a selling point, and one of them will be running Jellybean (thanks to XDA!).
Consumer demand is not high enough to demand the cost of testing new software on dated phones. Sad but true.
thebeastglasser said:
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If they really saw us as free labor, they would release a phone with cyanogenmod or something and just kang whatever works for their next update. (Actually, this would be a very good idea.)
However, in actuality, they just don't care about the devs. Too busy trying to differentiate their products with custom skins and cause more work for everyone.
It is true that most people don't know much more than that they are are android or "droid", just like many people don't know much more than they have an Iphone. The vocal majority of phone users (online) however have quite a bit more knowledge which means they get much more feedback from the minority.
One of the main reasons (other than price) that I got a Nexus 7 was due to the fact that Google pushes updates immediately to their nexus devices. I see this as an additional "perk".
You can't buy a device Android or other from an OEM or carrier and expect to get the latest greatest updates a or mods any too quickly. Forums and sites like xda bring in developers and users who ate eager to offer mods and help that you will never find coming from the mainstream as quickly or with the same quality. I get the device I want and look to here to make it better quicker.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
But what I see is that there are a bunch of phones that could easily be running better software (like the Defy) but OEMs clearly see that anybody who seems to care enough about updates are doing it themselves. The problem is, there are relatives of mine who refuse to root and yet they know enough about phones to know what version they're running and know the difference between the two versions. The one they currently have, and the one they could have.
I feel like this is kind of unfair to the sed-mentioned people and on top of that, it makes uneducated users buy more phones, while it keeps people like us are at work.
I'd bet that it was a pain in the a** porting ICS to the Desire HD no thanks to HTC, and yet this is just one less job for HTC and a hell of a lot more work for us... That's just me.
And also, that idea for a "pre-kanged" phone or one running a version of Cyanogenmod is pretty good. It'd be a great idea...
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb not only because of devs, but because people who just end up with them will like seeing timely updates and devices that continue to get better and better. If you want to help the rise of affordable, quality devices then steer others toward them when you can and buy them yourself when it's time for something new.
Also, people on xda do not see development as a "work", they see it as a hobby...
So even if all the phones were on the latest android, the dev community here at Xda would still be hard at "work" to come up with something better...something which the OEM's and Google couldn't think of implementing even with such large resources at their disposal...
And let's face it, apart from games, the general public in large doesn't have "need" for BETTER phones...
I've seen the likes of HTC One X and Galaxy S3 go in the hands of people for whom multitasking would mean chatting on whatsapp while waiting for the fb app to load...
So the question would arise, if the public doesn't "need" better phones, how do we sell it to them?
The answer becomes clear, stop giving them updates...make them feel that their device is outdated...that they "need" a NEW and BETTER phone...
The ones who understand the capability of their phone would have the ability, or more importantly, the will to make the updates happen...
For the rest, well there's fancy advertising...
Hope this clears up...
- Via xda premium
Yeah, I suppose it makes sense. Thanks guys!
How many people are there using Android? About 60% of the market, which means hundred milion users How many members do we have here on XDA? Less than hundred thousands! It means that regular users dont know and dont care what OS they use or even dont know what the update is. Froyo, GB, ICS, JB sound like alien languages for most of regular users. For those who know wat they are using, they are already XDA members, the rest just doesnt care or they just simply buy an iCrapple. Therefore, there is no way you can stop that. Customers are always taken granted by companies.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda app-developers app
Extreemly well put. We all knew it but didn't say anything. I am awaiting the next nexus for this very reason. Props to thebeastglasser
MissionImprobable said:
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
thebeastglasser said:
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not currently active users though. Remember XDA used to make you register to download files so that jacked up the member rate.
thebobp said:
The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
Google is marketing a clean, recognizable line in their Nexus devices, advertising intelligently, and making sure that they continue to stay on the latest firmware. Supporting them and other companies who do so will dictate what model corporations follow. Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
Grassroots movements have done everything from keeping the iPhone legal to jailbreak to getting a man his goodies when a WP store tried to pull a fast one in regards to him winning the WP challenge to getting VZ to clarify that they wouldn't be doing anything to their Unlimited users. We may not be the majority, but we are far more organized and informed than the masses and as such what we do gets noticed and picked up on by tech, blog, and news coverage. The only ones who don't make change happen are the naysayers who sit by and do nothing. Support the brands that support the customers and devs.
MissionImprobable said:
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
MissionImprobable said:
Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not really convinced that Motorola's and HTC's losses were due to locked bootloaders, or even lack of firmware updates. Rather, I think it's due to brand inertia: at some point, Samsung came up with a phone (the Galaxy S2) that was so far ahead of anything else on the market at the time, that they just grabbed market share and brand loyalty from many of the consumers on the market. This has little to do with the Galaxy Nexus, and indeed their "next big thing" has been the horribly backward (from a stock perspective) S3 and the Note.
It's been my perception that there is a strong correlation between developer support and whatever device I want to get next.
When I got my very first phone, it was the Samsung Captivate.
It had (Still has) great dev support. I decided not to wait a month to get the Moto Atrix because, there was no predicting what kind of dev support it would have despite having great specs. I find that (generally speaking) Samsung phones have had strong dev support.
I sort of hate to point this out.. But, if you think the "average consumer" cares about upgrades.. I would be inclined to disagree. A lot of people do care about upgrades.. Myself, my girlfriend, a lot of people who frequent forums in general.
Still, your average consumer is probably more concerned with the screen size than the software it's packing. Even if ICS is "nicer" and "more elegant" there are a lot of people who really don't know or even care what OS their phone is running. As long as they can text and check facebook, they aren't going to be bothered with the small details of "Jellybean" or "ICS"
I have to be completely honest when I admit, if I were a manufacturer.. I don't honestly know how inclined I would be to release OS updates. Not because I want to be an evil corporation and force you to upgrade to get the newest OS.. But, because putting it plain and simply.. It takes time, energy, and money to release an update. If *ANYTHING* goes wrong with the update and even a single person doesn't follow the instructions.. It becomes really hard to prove they are the one at fault. So you spend your time and energy making an update, potentially having more cost incurred due to possibly damaged hardware, and then finally.. wondering how many people really cared in the first place. A lot of people don't care and even won't upgrade their phone because, they perceive it as "a pointless endeavor."
thebobp said:
Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
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What does this have to do with supporting companies that support us? Voting with your dollars is a metaphor; it doesn't mean that there is an election for phones.