Database Info

Basic (?) hacking questions

Hi folks,
Like many Android is new to me and I've been reading about all of the tools and terminology and very rarely see definitions. Anyway, let me get to the heart of the matter.
Apparently Samsung (and other vendors) enforce digital signatures.
What stage of the boot process are these signatures checked?
What is checked for a signature? (Kernel? Initrd? Boot loader? All?)
What memory does verification code reside in? (Processor boot ROM or flash?)
Is an open source boot loader being used?
It appears that no checking of update.zip is performed and that's been the means of modifying the software on the phone?
So, the end game is being able to download all of the source code and embedded firmware files, (maybe some porting), compile and flash the phone myself. How many non-dev phones has this been accomplished with? Is it likely to happen with the Galaxy S?
I'd like some Froyo.

I can't answer pretty much any of those questions lol but so far the general consensus is that there will be no Froyo on our devices until Samsung releases their own version of it...I'd like to think that the international Galaxy S will get it first, then maybe it will be ported across the rest of the devices. I've a feeling that individual carrier devices in the US will get hung out to dry for awhile sadly. Its a shame too cus Froyo would make this a truly unbeatable powerhouse device

Hey big99gt... Thanks for the effort.
Either nobody knows the answers to these questions (unlikely) or they're not telling. I just wanted to get an idea of how locked down this device is and how difficult it will be to make it do my (our) bidding.
Since most of the source has been released it's great we can compile most of the components. However the key is being able to change the entire boot process... If we can't modify the kernel or the initrd image we're boned on an early Froyo and extensive mods anyway.

What would allow/limits that? Since the kernel source is available, changing the kernel should be fine (the mimocan lag fix shows that). I'm not sure about initrd, but I'm also new to Android.

There is nothing stopping you from running a kernel you compile yourself on the Galaxy S. None of the Galaxy S variants use an encrypyted bootloader. I don't think the default bootloader checks the update.zip for anything beyond a MD5 hash.

Well, now it seems the Captivate may be more "open" than previously thought. Since the source code has been released theres been some pleasant discoveries. I still haven't read what the final verdict is on the drivers yet, but one person on these forums stated that Samsung will be releasing more code this coming week for all the Galaxy S devices.....and that they will be the final piece of the puzzle. I hope its true, Sammy may have done right this time in a big way.

(FWIW, encrypted is a lot different than signed.)
Well this would be welcome news. If the boot chain is wide open and enough source is available to roll our own this will be one heck of a device to play with.

First smartphone - help me get gingerbread!

Note: I'm hoping this is the correct place for this thread, hopefully others with this same phone would benefit from it, as this sub-forum seems barren of any guides on what I am looking for
After Christmas, I decided to get my first smart phone, the D2G. I ordered it through Newegg and had it linked to a family account on Verizon.
So what I currently have now is Android 2.2, System Version 2.4.330.A956.Verizon.en.us, and tons of Verizon branded bloat.
My goal is that I would like to install a vanilla version of gingerbread. Being my first smartphone, and my first time on these forums, I'm greatly lacking in knowledge of these phones and how to get from where I am at to where I want to be. What I do have, however, is an understanding of operating system architecture, UNIX experience and good technical knowledge of PCs. I understand what rooting means, what apps are, what a bootstrap does, however I know nothing of how to get or use these things on this phone, nor any idea where to look for this information. Because this phone is on contract (and thus only paid $150 for it), I'm hoping to minimize the risk of bricking it, or otherwise costing me more money.
What I am looking for: any information/guides/links that will help me to get me from Android 2.2 to a vanilla version of gingerbread on the D2G. From what I have gathered from other threads is that I need to root it (by installing z4root I read), boot in recovery mode, then install ROMs. None of those things I know how to do right now. I suppose helping me learn how to do those would be a great start.
tl;dr I need a layman's guide to get gingerbread on D2G
Thanks in advance for any help

To begin you won't be able to get Gingerbread until Motorola releases an update. The Droid 2 (and D2 Global) have a locked bootloader which means the kernel can't be changed except by Motorola. Without a kernel upgrade Gingerbread will remain out of reach.
You can, however, grab some things that have been backported from Gingerbread like the keyboard and theme. As time goes by more and more external things from Gingerbread will become available for non-GB users, but certain things that rely on the GB kernel will be elusive.
Now as for FroYo, there currently isn't a completely working AOSP (Android Open Source Project) ROM yet. Fission and GummyJAR strip away as much Blur as possible and work towards AOSP. Unleashed, Ultimate Droid, and Tanzanite are all AOSP ROMs in development but are lacking full functionality at the moment. Basically you've got to pick your poison: AOSP-like that works or AOSP that's not quite done.
Given that you have a D2 Global I'd personally hold off on changing ROMs at the moment. The D2G SBF (System Boot File) hasn't been leaked yet so if anything were to go wrong while changing ROMs your phone would be bricked until the SBF is released. A SBF allows you to revert your phone back to its out-of-the-box state should anything go wrong; your phone can be in a boot loop but you can turn it on in a way that will allow you to get things back to square one at least. Without the SBF you're really taking a gamble.

Alright, so I take it I just got too new of a phone then ~_~
thanks

Don't be too upset that your phone is too new yet...
Just be very careful with what you try for now.
It is just over a year since I got my first Droid and while there were plenty of hacks and roms for that back then, few were really STABLE. It didn't take long before not only were stable roms available, they were far better and included features that were not supposed to be on the phone.
Including overclocking it to twice the stock speed.
The D2G is in a similar place right now but the whole "eFuse" thing makes hacking a lot trickier. Its much easier to brick a D2/DX than an original Droid.
BUt progress is being made and there is little doubt in my mind that all the devs out there will make this phone what it should be just like they did with the Droid.
Gingerbread will get to us eventually, but for now Fission rom has already improved my D2G 100% over stock.

rogerdugans said:
Gingerbread will get to us eventually, but for now Fission rom has already improved my D2G 100% over stock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interested in Fission, but as I have previously stated, I'm quite clueless for the time being
Is this something that is safe?

Kenshin- said:
Interested in Fission, but as I have previously stated, I'm quite clueless for the time being
Is this something that is safe?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want 100% safe- leave your phone exactly as you received it.
Seriously.
There is risk in doing this stuff, even when we are simply taking advantage of the very risky work done by devs to figure out HOW to modify our phones.
Generally speaking, the longer you wait the less risky it is, but the fact is that there is never ZERO danger to it. Even if all the mods and hacks you use are time tested and there has not been a single bug found by anyone- flashing a rom can go wrong and leave a device bricked.
Even flashing a manufacturer provided BIOS on a computer has risk.
All of that said, if you want to minimize risk, wait just a little while for the bugs to be worked out more thoroughly.
I just saw that there is now an SBF for the D2G last night- that helps provide a buffer for accidents (disaster recovery!) but I don't know how well tested it is. We should know fairly soon- quite a few folks with bricked phones have been waiting for it!
I would say that right now the D2G has risk in the "moderate" range- new phone, not that much dev time, etc.
The only other phone I have personal experience with is the original Droid- risk on that is "minimal." Hard to kill those things.
All that said, I have accepted the risk and did so before the sbf was out. I have had no problems at all so far.
IF you choose to do so, I highly recommend following instructions exactly and making sure you know what you are doing and why.
I don't mean to talk you or anyone else out of improving their smart phone, but I do believe that realistic risk assessment is a wise thing to do before starting.

I used the SBF to flash my phone 2 days ago, with no issues.

rogerdugans said:
Generally speaking, the longer you wait the less risky it is, but the fact is that there is never ZERO danger to it.
...
All of that said, if you want to minimize risk, wait just a little while for the bugs to be worked out more thoroughly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a D2 and I got it pretty new a few months ago it was my first Android phone but I watched the forums and learned as things became available how to do it all. I watched as the device everyone thought wasn't even going to get root access got it, then the ROMs came; it wasn't easy and they aren't like the ROMs that came for previous devices because of the locks Moto put on the phone. But, we were happy with it and I've been pleasantly surprised at what the devs have come up with and have been running custom ROMs so long I don't remember what stock was even like. I just know it wasn't as cool as the custom stuff I'm running.
So hang in there and read all you can about your device or similar devices (D2, DX, DPro) so that when something comes along that you want to try you know what to do to make it work and what to do if it doesn't go as planned.

[Q] Wondering why D2G is ignored by modding community

I went from a Motorola Milestone to a Droid 2 Global. And as much as I am enjoying the Fission ROM from Team DeFuse, I am wondering why there seems to be such low interest in the Droid 2 Global compared to the original Droid 2? Can anyone give me some info as to why this is the case? I realize that with the Droid 2 globals additional radios that that transcribes to more work to get those operational in a custom ROM, I just dont understand why this powerful phone is ignored and left to sit on the curb. Thank you to all in advance.

1. The Global is hard to dev for. There aren't many Global devices to go off of, so the radios are hard to get 100% working on custom roms
2. It was launched silently. No one really knows it exists, so it just didn't receive the initial dev bump that phones usually get when they're first released
3. It didn't sell very well. I can't speak for the whole sales numbers, but my friend who works for Verizon Corporate (or something like that) said the numbers weren't fantastic in New York.
4. Three devices is a lot. Any devs willing to work on the Global probably already work on the Droid X and Droid 2. Adding a third device to the list is just too much for people who do this as a hobby.
That's the best explanation I can give... sorry for how negative it was, lol.
To be fair, the D2G is receiving more support this last month or so. Look on droidforums.net, some good work being done on there (3 or 4 roms available).

I will keep an eye out on droidforums. I was also thinking that with the possibility of 2.3 coming out for it most devs dont (myself included) see a point in making a ROM on froyo when 2.3 is around the corner. Thank you for your input. Its much appreciated

Most of the correct answers were already stated...
Just wated to point out that only people who truly needed global support would buy the D2G.
Droid Pro got play merely because it was targeted at the Crackberry crowd conversion which really didn't work.
Those are the only two GLOBAL phone I know of. Doesn't make sense to make many more with the 4G revolution under way.
Business have bought into the form factor but the Devs they all look at the performance specs and the EASE of development regarding the model.
The biggest issue though is the locked bootloader! Since the boot loader is locked you can not run custom Kernels so any development that could be made is limited to the stock kernel.
All of the Motorola development you see regarding phone with lockd bootloaders are really nothing more than a bunch of stock and AOSP apps and system files that change the look and the startup sequence but the base code that runs the phone pretty much stays the same!
I would love to see more people making ROMs for the unit but what I really want to see is the unlocking of that boot loader.
If we managed to do that then none of us would be worrying how many roms were available or which one updates next.
We would probably all be running Cyanogen at this point and merely wait for the next release of stable! And also be looking for the next great Kernel update to make it even better!

Asphyx said:
Most of the correct answers were already stated...
Just wated to point out that only people who truly needed global support would buy the D2G.
Droid Pro got play merely because it was targeted at the Crackberry crowd conversion which really didn't work.
Those are the only two GLOBAL phone I know of. Doesn't make sense to make many more with the 4G revolution under way.
Business have bought into the form factor but the Devs they all look at the performance specs and the EASE of development regarding the model.
The biggest issue though is the locked bootloader! Since the boot loader is locked you can not run custom Kernels so any development that could be made is limited to the stock kernel.
All of the Motorola development you see regarding phone with lockd bootloaders are really nothing more than a bunch of stock and AOSP apps and system files that change the look and the startup sequence but the base code that runs the phone pretty much stays the same!
I would love to see more people making ROMs for the unit but what I really want to see is the unlocking of that boot loader.
If we managed to do that then none of us would be worrying how many roms were available or which one updates next.
We would probably all be running Cyanogen at this point and merely wait for the next release of stable! And also be looking for the next great Kernel update to make it even better!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Won't anyone who wants a keyboard on verizon also get the D2G? I mean it's the only half decent phone with a physical qwerty keyboard on verizon, and the droid 2 itself was phased out months ago, 4 months ago when I got my D2G you couldn't get a new Droid 2 at verizon, though I think Best Buy might have still had them, though they were just clearing out stock.
Also I thought fact that everything has to be signed is the problem with the phone. When you don't know how to sign the kernel and other things the phone has hardware to autobrick which is why no one can get around it. Tons of phones out there have locked bootloaders that are gotten around well before or within a few days of the phone being released. If it was just the locked bootloader then I'd say motorola has found the holy grail of security, because everything else out there has been hacked through.

The problem isn't that the bootloader is signed, its that its encrypted. Newer htc phones have bootloaders that require signed kernels and people have found ways around them already, the encryption prevents us from loading custom software on it.
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using XDA App

[Q] Questions about the XT701 compared to another phone

Hello,
I post here because there appear to be no other Q&A boards for this phone and the xt720 is the most similar to the xt701.
I could also have asked in the P500 general board, but since they have a whole board to themselves, I figure it is easier to look for the information there than it is about the xt701 here primarily because there don't seem to be that many xt701 posts or users here to start and the deadline for choosing the phone is tomorrow so I hope at least one xt701 user will notice this post and reply to help me make the choice a bit easier, if not faster.
At this time I'm looking to buy a phone and after a long search and after reviewing many phones, review sites , specs sites, and prices I've come to narow my list to two phones: the LG P500, and the Motorola XT701.
My questions here are about the XT701. After reading a few of the threads here I'm led to believe the xt701 is bootloader locked, is this true?
Also, It seems it can only go up to android 2.2 and in the CM7 thread, while there appears to be some progress to getting 2.3 on it but many features don't seem to work and while there was a link to a chinese post that apparently got it to work, I can't be sure since comments don't seem clear enough on what is working or not. At least not for me.
Any comments about quirks, problems, or annoyances with the phone are welcome too.
One last thing, I don't know if it's because the p500 was cheaper or easier to get than the xt720/701, but the p500 appears to be more developed in what's android and mods than the xt even though the xt has better specs, except for the RAM. I was wondering if someone had any idea as to the reasons behind that or if it's just the lack of users.
Thank you for your time.

From what I understand, XT701 is locked, but it doesn't verify boot.img at boot. This means you can use nandroid to install custom boot.img. There's been a lot of effort to port the XT701 bootloader to other Motorola phones (but no luck so far).
Sent from my XT720 using XDA Premium App

Mioze7Ae said:
This means you can use nandroid to install custom boot.img.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does that mean it can run 2.2 or does boot.img handle something else?
And can it be made to run superuser?

r1c47 said:
Does that mean it can run 2.2 or does boot.img handle something else?
And can it be made to run superuser?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said, I don't have an XT701. I believe XT701 has CM7 (gingerbread)... see this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1064090
Since XT701 is also officially stuck at 2.1, I imagine rooting works the same as on XT720. Most of the XT701 development happens on Chinese forums from what I can tell.

I see.
Once again thank you for your time.

get a p500. they have gingerbread.

[Q] ROM Modification without Flashing

So, as many probably know, Verizon quite enjoys locking bootloaders. On non-HTC devices this can be a problem when you want to flash a ROM. After coming from my HTC Rezound which could be bootloader unlocked easily, I have (against my own will) switched to the Samsung Galaxy S4. I personally hate TouchWiz and the thought of having stock in general, however I am on the latest update, which totally locks and write protects the bootloader. I am rooted, and can modify any system files I please. So, for me this begs the question, can I take files from a ROM I want, modify them to match the existing boot files so it will start like it is running stock, but really it has been changed? I am certainly not the most experienced even after playing with Android since 1.5, and this may be a stupid question, but I would like to know if it is possible. Feasibility is not important, because it may just remain a thought experiment per say.