Related
All,
I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.
The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.
I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.
Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.
So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.
Let people say whatever they like!
All,
I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.
The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.
I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.
Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.
So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.
Well said. This is the worst forum I've ever come across for noob bashing. It's a shame because there are a lot of helpful people here.
The odd post I have had to make asking for help took me 30 mins or so of searching just to make sure it's not been covered before, for fear of getting jumped on by the resident 'net police'.
By the way, if this subject has come up before, I don't care because I didn't search so there!
I agree. Isn't a forum supossed to be just that, a place where people can come to ask questions even though there is a wiki, search, etc?
HEAR HEAR!!!
j1ngles said:
All,
I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.
The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.
I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.
Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.
So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.
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Click to collapse
Well put j1ngles!!! I never had this newbie bashing in the Wizard forum, which I joined almost 2 years ago.
This is the worst forum for n00b bashing this side of the whirlpool galaxy!!!
I agree 110%. If people ask "stupid" questions and someone feels obliged to assist, then by all means do so or shut up.
I have helped n00bs by providing certain cabs etc and then I have been criticised!!!
Good point here - I do believe that one of the mods has actually issued a warning against n00b bashing, so that's a step in the right direction.
Totally agree with you.
The search function is useful, but if you are new how are you supposed to know the exact techie term to make the search results useful?! Who knows how many budding chefs etc we are turning away becuz someone jumps on their back within 2 minutes giving them a hard time?
We're all here becuz we want to learn, and develop our devices into something different and better, so lets try to support each other and be gentle on the new guys.
Well said!
j1ngles said:
All,
I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.
The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.
I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.
Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.
So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I fully agree with you j1ngles!!!
You learn, search terms, how to search and even better (and something difficult for me) patience... after all if you are going to spend the money on a serious piece of equipment (even if you get it as part of a deal with a phone company you brick it you will have to pay) you better learn properly how to do whatever it is you want to do... I am about as far from computer savvy as you can get but I have learned what terms to use in a search, how to use the search and even better how to make notes on what I read and where I get up to so I can refer to a thread and pick up where I left off... I too dont have much time (especially lately) but I still take my time and read, search etc before asking the SAME question for the 2359834098345054390843986th time... on the same page...
A good point very well made.
If you don't want to help someone out fine , just don't post a reply. Better that than to ridicule someone and put them off posting again.
I have +170 posts and still feel like a noob. if search does not give me the answer i am looking for after 5 attempts (or 30 minutes of crawling through plenty of mails) i do ask help. And i also got replies not being helpfull.
This is not about noob bashing
Shadowdh said:
You learn, search terms, how to search and even better (and something difficult for me) patience... after all if you are going to spend the money on a serious piece of equipment (even if you get it as part of a deal with a phone company you brick it you will have to pay) you better learn properly how to do whatever it is you want to do... I am about as far from computer savvy as you can get but I have learned what terms to use in a search, how to use the search and even better how to make notes on what I read and where I get up to so I can refer to a thread and pick up where I left off... I too dont have much time (especially lately) but I still take my time and read, search etc before asking the SAME question for the 2359834098345054390843986th time... on the same page...
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I have done the same as have many people i'm sure. The question is, if someone askes something that you know the answer to (either from working it out, or reading up) do you give them the answer and point out where you got it from, or do you hold back?
We need to teach people to learn by encouragement, not by attitude.
ghostie said:
I have done the same as have many people i'm sure. The question is, if someone askes something that you know the answer to (either from working it out, or reading up) do you give them the answer and point out where you got it from, or do you hold back?
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I've always favoured giving someone the link, while telling them they could (and should) have searched for it themselves. I also agree with some flaming on obvious or very frequent questions - provided the link is there and the flaming is amusing and light-hearted.
Just my opinion.
I made a similar point a few months back. Another problem is that noobies don't always know what to search for...Because they are noobies...
j1ngles said:
All,
So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldnt agree more with this. I really dont see why an experienced senior member, for example, has to flame a noobie for asking a silly easy question. Either you have a few words to say and shread some light into matter, or just skip the thread, go read something else. I know some of them are ignorant, but the best treatment is to ignore questions like that. This way they will have to search for themselves, if they get no answer.
But to tell them: read wiki, search, use google is simply too useless, will not help anybody.
I understand both sides, but you have to see that once you see a trillion questions asking the same thing, then you get a little frustrated.
I dont think XDA is a service. XDA is a community where people have to do their part, and if you dont do your part, then your not contributing to the community. And yes, searching is contribution. You are gorging yourself in PDA knoweldge and then could help someone else.
However, if you feel that people here at XDA are here to help you becuase this is their job, then your wrong. I'm not saying you, or anyone else does feel this way, but my point is that XDA is not a service, its a community.
I've found the dutty thread to be useless now because of so many questions asking the same thing. There is an onslaught of many questions that were already answered and its hard to find the specific problem your having. I still LOOK, and I still search...and I find the answer.
Though I do agree, being a ***** never did anything for anyone. So the best anyone can do is point them in the right direction until they get it themselves.
If everyone post any question they want to ask without searching, we'll probably end up having 25k pages in every thread. The whole point of searching is to keep forums tidy, so that information can be found faster.
Have you ever tried to find some specific thingsin big DUMP??? (Not a rom dump)
Very True
I agree with the starter of the topic. So you say using search keeps the Forum tidy. I don't agree. The Forum is already full of huge topics and nobody has to have the patience to go through them. HOWEVER, I personally SEARCHED A LOT for some stuff and I usually FOUND what I was looking for. So I admit that it's ok to search! ::- ). But a bit more tolerance for those who don't have this time would be great.
Maybe I just bought a phone and I'm uber-enthusiastic about it and don't want to search 2 days for something. Common, a bit of understanding never killed anybody ::- ). And if there are a lot of topics about a certain problem, they'll show up faster in search, so it's ok. Common, a bit more text never killed a database.
This is a fair point and I would agree - generally speaking a policy of ignore it and move on is best.
However, I have seen instances of people who ought to know better blundering into a thread and asking a question to which they would get an answer if they could just be bothered to look a handful of posts further up.
Not all newcomers are sweet innocents and not all stupid questions are asked by newcomers.
My personal annoyance list is topped by those that ask a tough or poorly defined question and then start stamping their tiny feet if they don't get an answer back within seconds of posting - some people here seem to think this is a formal support forum for 'XDA products', (whatever those might be) and so start *****ing about bugs, lack of response, etc.
Did you ever stop to think that all the people with your point of view are the reason for the search function not being as productive as other sites? When someone doesn't search and just creates another redundant thread, they are directly responsible for polluting the search results.
As I have said before, I will no longer be bashing n00bs who fail to search before posting. Instead, I will transpose their question into Google, and reply back with a link to the search result they need to read. There is one exception to this; people who create 2 or more new threads (within 24 hours) asking the exact same question. That is just rude.
whats some good programs to install?
Um well....... what do you want to do? Are you going to flash a new ROM? What are you using the phone for? These are the questions I have for you. Without knowing that we can't tell you what to look for.
sigh.. just go to the site in my sig, tailored just for you.
And before you post on xda again please read the rules and guidelines first.
Click my sig, i got hundreds of cabs.
I know the OP asked when he could have searched...
But i am in the same boat and was also wondering what everyone is using. His question (and the replies with apps in the sigs) is going to make my life better too
So thanks OP for asking a disliked but useful question....
Dillsnik said:
asking a disliked but useful question....
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for the 10^10000000000th time.
well, i look at it this way...it doesn't hurt anyone here if someone ASKS....there is no gun to your head to answer it. only chime in if you feel like it. The OP's title is very explanatory of what he was asking so no one should have opened the thread unless they either wanted to reply or were curious of the responses given (like me). To be fair, i have never quite understood the strictness imposed which seems to cause so much frustration in (many) forums.
Signal to noise ratio, man. The fewer redundant threads, the fewer months it takes someone to get the same knowledge and tools from xda forums for their phone.
I had no problem answering his question (hell I spent countless hours designing a website to accommodate people in his shoes) and I'm sorry if I came off as bitter but the rules make sense to the people who made the rules and to me and especially to those reading the forums on their phones with a browser or RSS.
Think of Slashdot. There by default you wouldn't see things like this as they would get moderated below the default threshold. If you're so inclined, you can modify the threshold up or down or order the posts in various directions. That makes Slashdot a lot better than it used to be before they coded that. But wouldn't it be nice if XDA could continue to get away without needing the forum equivalent of that kind of system if people would just post properly and when newcomers do not that they are advised to check the rules (and, in this case, their questions get answered too)?
And yes, because of this thread a bunch of people are getting cabs they didn't have from various sigs and now that this is turning into a debate a lot more people will get cabs. But would you not agree now that we are both right? Or do you truly not mind the boards being flooded with the same questions the wiki and searching satisfies? Not to mention spam and people trying to sell their phones. Signal to noise ratio.
Doug
Dillsnik said:
well, i look at it this way...it doesn't hurt anyone here if someone ASKS....there is no gun to your head to answer it. only chime in if you feel like it. The OP's title is very explanatory of what he was asking so no one should have opened the thread unless they either wanted to reply or were curious of the responses given (like me). To be fair, i have never quite understood the strictness imposed which seems to cause so much frustration in (many) forums.
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I think for some it's just a matter of frustration. I've been guilty of it myself, and got my hand slapped by the mods in Q&A for an inappropriate flame. Speaking for myself, I first joined a little over a year ago and read everything available. This allowed me to avoid asking questions that had already been answered. I'd hazard to guess that the "ask first and search later" approach is viewed by some as intellectually lazy. I can also see the other side that you point out. This site can be very intimidating and some people may just not know what to look for -- especially if they're new to WinMo. I've now adopted a no-flame approach (don't want to get slapped again). I'm certainly no expert, but I occasionally can provide an answer or suggestion, even if it's nothing other than providing a link to the appropriate thread. I figure it's the least I can do for all the great help I've received here.
d0ugie said:
Signal to noise ratio, man.
Doug
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Can't help but say that in my head with the Dude's voice from The Big Lebowski.
Well put! I trolled this board months before I got my Fuze on release day. After I got it, I finally registered at xda. Just now I flashed my phone with a NAFT's new ROM. Countless threads of information to go through for someone with tendencies of ADD its hard to take it all in a fast as I want to. Many saved bookmarked threads. Think this might be my 4th post. I wanted to take the easy/short cut and ask but all the information is there. Just had to search and read & read & read again.
There are many talented, smart & helpful people on the forum. This forum totally kick ass in all reality.
BTW d0ugie, website kicks ass! Helped me out tremendously 6 weeks ago.
Now off to search for may att stock ring tones I didn't backup before the flash.
Phaze13 said:
Can't help but say that in my head with the Dude's voice from The Big Lebowski.
Well put! I trolled this board months before I got my Fuze on release day. After I got it, I finally registered at xda. Just now I flashed my phone with a NAFT's new ROM. Countless threads of information to go through for someone with tendencies of ADD its hard to take it all in a fast as I want to. Many saved bookmarked threads. Think this might be my 4th post. I wanted to take the easy/short cut and ask but all the information is there. Just had to search and read & read & read again.
There are many talented, smart & helpful people on the forum. This forum totally kick ass in all reality.
BTW d0ugie, website kicks ass! Helped me out tremendously 6 weeks ago.
Now off to search for may att stock ring tones I didn't backup before the flash.
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Hey thanks for backing me up. Heh, the Dude.
Glad you got good use out of the site! And guess what, you can get even more out of it because I got your default rings (HTC's and MS's) in the first paragraph of section 9, notifications.
Doug
@D0ugie
First off, i didn't think your reply was too negative. You just pointed out that people should search first and ask later, which i agree with. I think in my mind it's the level of grey that exists with the "search first" motto that is debatable. I have spent a LOT of time in some instances searching for a needle in a haystack, sometimes in fear of knowing that if i pose a new thread for a quick answer i might get flamed for it. And there are times when i asked before i probably should have (had one of those the other day) and felt like an idiot for it. And then there are the times where i was looking for something but maybe didn't even know it, and had someone else ask it and be like, wow that is exactly what i wanted to know. And then there are still the times where i asked a Q and wasn't sure if it was a good question and whether or not i'd even get a reply, and had a huge discussion evolve because of it and lots of people glad i did ask.
Obviously, the repeat of the same question over and over can make it harder to find the BEST answers, but sometimes i will search and not find that right thread and then someone points me to it and i am like, that just saved me SO much unnecessary searching, THANK YOU.
The bottom line though is i love this community and, in general, everyone here is amazing and so helpful and giving. I feel lucky to be a part of it and wish i was a better developer and had more to contribute.
Why So Serious?
meth0dGSX said:
Why So Serious?
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@you lol. Perfect time to add that
@OP You could search the Raphael software/Diamond Themes, Applications, and Software/Developement & Hacking which are sections specially made for app posting.
EDITED, sorry if I offended anyone.
Phaze13 said:
Can't help but say that in my head with the Dude's voice from The Big Lebowski.
Well put! I trolled this board months before I got my Fuze on release day. After I got it, I finally registered at xda. Just now I flashed my phone with a NAFT's new ROM. Countless threads of information to go through for someone with tendencies of ADD its hard to take it all in a fast as I want to. Many saved bookmarked threads. Think this might be my 4th post. I wanted to take the easy/short cut and ask but all the information is there. Just had to search and read & read & read again.
There are many talented, smart & helpful people on the forum. This forum totally kick ass in all reality.
BTW d0ugie, website kicks ass! Helped me out tremendously 6 weeks ago.
Now off to search for may att stock ring tones I didn't backup before the flash.
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Click to collapse
Funny i was looking for the Dude trying to get a little Time of from XDA and accidentally used the Google XDA search. This was the only result.
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=000825531964825142534%3Acqr2sjirilw&q=the+big+lebowski&sa=Search&cof=FORID%3A0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
I didn't know that until i accidentally searched for it.
Well for those in the Dark here's the Short Version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqtgfjkB6Pg
Please delete me when the fun's gotten out of it, but at least XDA should get back two search results from now on, on The Big Lebowksi
In two weeks:
http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&...esult&cd=1&q=Noonski+the+big+lebowski&spell=1
Should give you at least one result on finding out my true identity.
A few posts deleted, that is already more then any of us would have wanted on a Forum meant to harbour information.
Don't Flame a man trying to show you the light of XDA, it attracts to much attention of Moderators even when they are trying not to.
If you go to my 4shared, you can find pretty much any application that will do whatever you want on your WinMo based phone.
I downloaded the .7z file for JustHome rom for Herald thanks to IVAN!. My IPL is 4.10.0002 and SPL 4.10.0000, I have a microSD ship and ready for action. I just need the walkthrough for installing ROMs from scratch. How do I do the hardspl....I need complete guidance!
You need to search better.
there is a "giude to flashing" in one of these theads that is specific to the htc herald which is the name for you "wing" i thing you might find it under "wiki htc herald " you can probably google it. it is a step by step guide. hope that helps.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=358225 and http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=358615 goodluck
I apologize now for the lack of clear answers, and I understand your frustration, even if you did search and read those pages. Sometimes for newbs they can be a bit difficult to understand, and they were for me too, so I'll tell you how in newb language and provide the tools necessary.
First things first, you need to download the folder im going to provide you. Save the zip to your desktop and extract it. Now the fun begins.
1. Drag and extract the .nbh file you downloaded from JustHome and place it inside the RUU folder located inside of the MyFirstRom folder.
2. Turn your phone to flight mode. You can do this in the Comm Manager found in your Connection Settings.
3. Next make sure your phone is connected to your computer and you have Activesync (Win XP) or Mobile Device Center (Vista or Windows 7) connected with a green light.
4. Execute the application Herald-USPL (located in the MyFirstRom folder).
5. Wait for it to verify, press Enter. Wait for it to load SPL, PDA screen will go white at about 70 percent. If it doesn't and it hangs on a tux logo with a little command prompt (on the phone, sometimes this happens.) don't worry and just reset and try again.
6.If everything is successful and the PDA screen is white, press Enter and it'll launch the RUU installer application on your computer.
7. Follow the instructions, Press the Update button when it asks you what ROM you are installing. It should show some version number. Press Next, and it'll start flashing. It will say it will take 10 minutes, it'll go faster than that. After it's finished, the PDA will automatically reset to the new RUU.
If you experience any problems, don't panic, Soft Reset your device by pushing the stylus into the small whole next to the volume slider. If the phone goes into an endless reset, don't panic... Hard reset your phone by pressing holding the two soft-keys (keys with lines located above the Windows key and Ok key) while pressing the sylus into the reset hole. Release the soft keys while still holding reset and then release the reset. It will come up with a screen telling you you are being set to factory settings, press the Send key. (Green phone key)
I know you asked about HardSPL, but for the purpose of this ROM and some others, you won't need it. I prefer USPL because there's not a very easy way to brick your phone. If something goes terribly wrong, generally you can just Hard Reset and its all better.
Good luck, and I'm not liable for any damage to your phones OS or hardware, blah...
that was cool of you to take the time and post all that.wish i had that all explained to me when i started messin around.
bishoprnpb said:
that was cool of you to take the time and post all that.wish i had that all explained to me when i started messin around.
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Yeah, I just recently got started after buying a Wing a few weeks ago on E-Bay. I understand the frustration, and frankly I feel bad for new people... A lot of these threads are so out-dated now, and no one seems to want to help new people any more, with the exception of maybe Ivan who is working on a whole cooking guide. And the past instructions can get a little fuzzy. Even on the second post of Ivan's instructions it says to ask questions if you don't understand, but it seems like questions are just getting answered with more and more links to sites like Google.
Thank for step by step
Now I flash my dopodC800 to ITsPapablack but every time I reset, it's not show SPL
today I will flash again to "gulllums Touchflo2D II"
can I use same step?
What's the fastest way to get specific help at User forums?
apreichner said:
so I'll tell you how in newb language and provide the tools necessary.
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Click to collapse
You are right that many MANY threads are now obsolete, or have conflicting language & directions. Can I suggest that you edit your post to give it an explanatory title, so that it can be indexed by the search engine of this site, as well as by google? That way others may find your very post, which helps them bridge the gaps.
COMMENTARY:
That was good of you to take the time to help. In truth though, many many people help similarly. One of the problems is that the site serves so many different model phones, and so many ROM variations, that the site Admins really try (emphasis on TRY !) to segregate the "I need help with xxxxxx, please help!" threads to their new "Questions and Answers" forum, and keep each phone's ROM threads free of any threads that are not USER CONTRIBUTIONS to "hacking & development".
The problem is circular, though. I'm an information designer so I am often amazed that sometimes site "veterans" forget very easily the idea that for a new user "you don't know what you don't know until you get your toes wet"... then you get slapped around for not following the rules. But at same time, many many new users will pay no attention at all to a very long established culture that is evident in almost every User-to-User forums and bulletin boards on the web/internet... which is:
Please Mr. or Ms. New User, would you start here by simply first reading our Table of Contents -- or list of Forums -- before you begin to post? Thank you.
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But, as I say, a very circular problem, because all across the web most Forum category listings on Forum sites are very badly information-designed... generally too cumbersome to read first before a User feels overwhelm, which then flips the User's mental switch from "keep scanning down this really long list" to "Jesus, I'll spend more time here just figuring out WHERE to post than it takes to get a simple answer to a simple question."
It's more than a 2-way street with User and Community. It's more like a traffic jam at rush hour on a complex freeway interchange. Moral of the story is, it's impossible to know "intent" of a poster who answers a request for help with "use search" or just posts a link or two. Sometimes they really truly are giving someone the fastest exit ramp to their desired destination. It just takes too long to qualify such statements.
And yes, at same time there are examples every day of very inconsiderate people bashing newbies in unnecessarily cold ways.
And look how long this "meta" comment is -- which tries to bring a fuller perspective to the problem! Sometimes it's a wonder at all that so many people with so many phones are, every day, able to get so much help customizing their phones down to very specific solutions -- and all for free. Seen it that light, it's a miracle of cooperation!
pungcheer said:
Thank for step by step
Now I flash my dopodC800 to ITsPapablack but every time I reset, it's not show SPL
today I will flash again to "gulllums Touchflo2D II"
can I use same step?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.
quicksite said:
COMMENTARY:
That was good of you to take the time to help. In truth though, many many people help similarly. One of the problems is that the site serves so many different model phones, and so many ROM variations, that the site Admins really try (emphasis on TRY !) to segregate the "I need help with xxxxxx, please help!" threads to their new "Questions and Answers" forum, and keep each phone's ROM threads free of any threads that are not USER CONTRIBUTIONS to "hacking & development".
The problem is circular, though. I'm an information designer so I am often amazed that sometimes site "veterans" forget very easily the idea that for a new user "you don't know what you don't know until you get your toes wet"... then you get slapped around for not following the rules. But at same time, many many new users will pay no attention at all to a very long established culture that is evident in almost every User-to-User forums and bulletin boards on the web/internet... which is:
Quote:
Please Mr. or Ms. New User, would you start here by simply first reading our Table of Contents -- or list of Forums -- before you begin to post? Thank you.
But, as I say, a very circular problem, because all across the web most Forum category listings on Forum sites are very badly information-designed... generally too cumbersome to read first before a User feels overwhelm, which then flips the User's mental switch from "keep scanning down this really long list" to "Jesus, I'll spend more time here just figuring out WHERE to post than it takes to get a simple answer to a simple question."
It's more than a 2-way street with User and Community. It's more like a traffic jam at rush hour on a complex freeway interchange. Moral of the story is, it's impossible to know "intent" of a poster who answers a request for help with "use search" or just posts a link or two. Sometimes they really truly are giving someone the fastest exit ramp to their desired destination. It just takes too long to qualify such statements.
And yes, at same time there are examples every day of very inconsiderate people bashing newbies in unnecessarily cold ways.
And look how long this "meta" comment is -- which tries to bring a fuller perspective to the problem! Sometimes it's a wonder at all that so many people with so many phones are, every day, able to get so much help customizing their phones down to very specific solutions -- and all for free. Seen it that light, it's a miracle of cooperation!
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Yeah... I'll explain my point of view in the other forum, seeing as how this is the ROM development forum, and post a link.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3836096#post3836096
I was able to figure it out on my own with no posts, just searching. I've never had a problem.
quicksite said:
You are right that many MANY threads are now obsolete, or have conflicting language & directions. Can I suggest that you edit your post to give it an explanatory title, so that it can be indexed by the search engine of this site, as well as by google? That way others may find your very post, which helps them bridge the gaps.
COMMENTARY:
That was good of you to take the time to help. In truth though, many many people help similarly. One of the problems is that the site serves so many different model phones, and so many ROM variations, that the site Admins really try (emphasis on TRY !) to segregate the "I need help with xxxxxx, please help!" threads to their new "Questions and Answers" forum, and keep each phone's ROM threads free of any threads that are not USER CONTRIBUTIONS to "hacking & development".
The problem is circular, though. I'm an information designer so I am often amazed that sometimes site "veterans" forget very easily the idea that for a new user "you don't know what you don't know until you get your toes wet"... then you get slapped around for not following the rules. But at same time, many many new users will pay no attention at all to a very long established culture that is evident in almost every User-to-User forums and bulletin boards on the web/internet... which is:
But, as I say, a very circular problem, because all across the web most Forum category listings on Forum sites are very badly information-designed... generally too cumbersome to read first before a User feels overwhelm, which then flips the User's mental switch from "keep scanning down this really long list" to "Jesus, I'll spend more time here just figuring out WHERE to post than it takes to get a simple answer to a simple question."
It's more than a 2-way street with User and Community. It's more like a traffic jam at rush hour on a complex freeway interchange. Moral of the story is, it's impossible to know "intent" of a poster who answers a request for help with "use search" or just posts a link or two. Sometimes they really truly are giving someone the fastest exit ramp to their desired destination. It just takes too long to qualify such statements.
And yes, at same time there are examples every day of very inconsiderate people bashing newbies in unnecessarily cold ways.
And look how long this "meta" comment is -- which tries to bring a fuller perspective to the problem! Sometimes it's a wonder at all that so many people with so many phones are, every day, able to get so much help customizing their phones down to very specific solutions -- and all for free. Seen it that light, it's a miracle of cooperation!
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Yes.Yes.Yes. Every noob situation is different as many already have the concept of a "list" and its purpose. The problem I see everyday is that new people never read the rules. I know I didnt, but I already understood why there iwas even a list. Its too be read and understood that noob questions do not go where it says "This forum is only meant fro ROM issues and ROM development." Its why the admins get fed up. Its really the responsibility of the poster to be informed about where to post on a forum. Even is there is 3 million forums (yes i know its overwhelming at first) there is only 4 subcategories. Read the rules. If you get lost and dont know what to do. Read the rules. Even if you dont get your answer, at least you'll learn to appreciate when someone posts in the correct place. Now im getting worked up on this. To conclude. The poster was very lucky to receive such nice answers to his question.
raptoro07 said:
I was able to figure it out on my own with no posts, just searching. I've never had a problem.
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If only more people had that quality in them the world would be a better place.
My point is not to say the information isn't here already, my point is to say the information isn't as clear, as updated, and easily accessible as it could be. If I had my way, you would have a forum specially devoted to Tutorials. And on that tutorial forum you would have a giant sticky that says, "The Complete Idiots Guide on Flashing" (emphasis on complete). It wouldn't give you links to like 20 different libraries of dictionary definitions, wikis, and other guides. It would be like a picture book with easily seen pictures of each step. Who knows we could make it rhyme and it would be like Dr.Seus for nerds. I think after my Complete Cab Collection is finished, I'll work on such a page.
The point is: Herald and Herald Mobile 6 are a little redundant. Why do we need both? What is the point? I read the rules and the forum FAQ and all of that, and I'm not finding an answer to the usefulness of having both. And unfortunately, where are the mods during all of this? From what Ivan says, they aren't taking applications for Mods, but they probably should be. Just look at how long this post is able to get in this thread and you'll see my point.
True eventually you find an answer after reading through 8-10 posts, 2-4 wikis, 3-6 google searches, and 8-10 panic attacks after doing a bad rom attempt. Does it really have to be this way?
apreichner said:
My point is not to say the information isn't here already, my point is to say the information isn't as clear, as updated, and easily accessible as it could be. If I had my way, you would have a forum specially devoted to Tutorials. And on that tutorial forum you would have a giant sticky that says, "The Complete Idiots Guide on Flashing" (emphasis on complete). It wouldn't give you links to like 20 different libraries of dictionary definitions, wikis, and other guides. It would be like a picture book with easily seen pictures of each step. Who knows we could make it rhyme and it would be like Dr.Seus for nerds. I think after my Complete Cab Collection is finished, I'll work on such a page.
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I've been trying to get stuff like this set up. I'm trying to become a mod for partially this reason.
I HAVE posted a complete guide on flashing, but it needs a little updating. The thing about all this is that it's not a business. A bunch of people (like me) read and read and read and gather data from one place and another and put it together to make something useful for our phones. The problem is, being that it's a forum, no one really wants to have to sit there and dedicate hour after hour to just writing out tutorials, when people like me, the ones who have that knowledge already, spend hours and hours and hours making ROMs for everybody else.
rstweb said:
The point is: Herald and Herald Mobile 6 are a little redundant. Why do we need both? What is the point? I read the rules and the forum FAQ and all of that, and I'm not finding an answer to the usefulness of having both. And unfortunately, where are the mods during all of this? From what Ivan says, they aren't taking applications for Mods, but they probably should be. Just look at how long this post is able to get in this thread and you'll see my point.
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Trust me, I've been pushing the whole redundancy issue for a while already. They do have a lot of mods, but none of them really work the Herald forum due to the fact that it's an old device with little to no traffic as compared to the other phone forums.
rstweb said:
True eventually you find an answer after reading through 8-10 posts, 2-4 wikis, 3-6 google searches, and 8-10 panic attacks after doing a bad rom attempt. Does it really have to be this way?
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There IS one great positive aspect to doing it this way. On the way to learn what you THINK you need to learn, you end up learning what you TRULY need to learn accidently. We live in a society where everyone wants the answers right away and to not understand the context. Sometimes, the context is more important than the answers. Searching in this manner forces the context on you before you reach an answer.
ivanmmj said:
I've been trying to get stuff like this set up. I'm trying to become a mod for partially this reason.
I HAVE posted a complete guide on flashing, but it needs a little updating. The thing about all this is that it's not a business. A bunch of people (like me) read and read and read and gather data from one place and another and put it together to make something useful for our phones. The problem is, being that it's a forum, no one really wants to have to sit there and dedicate hour after hour to just writing out tutorials, when people like me, the ones who have that knowledge already, spend hours and hours and hours making ROMs for everybody else.
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I agree, not everyone can do everything at once. You have done a pretty good job, but you have a life, and a wife, so you can't keep up all of that plus doing your ROMs, plus writing out Tutorial after Tutorial. Maybe that's why you have unmarried people like me here who can complain and write up cab collections at the same time . If only we had a female moderator, this forum would be spotless, and she could yell at dumb people at the same time.
ivanmmj said:
Trust me, I've been pushing the whole redundancy issue for a while already. They do have a lot of mods, but none of them really work the Herald forum due to the fact that it's an old device with little to no traffic as compared to the other phone forums.
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I guess that's true, maybe it kind of disappoints me seeing as how I didn't get the Wing too long ago. And what does it hurt adding someone as a Mod... It's not like they are paying you.
ivanmmj said:
There IS one great positive aspect to doing it this way. On the way to learn what you THINK you need to learn, you end up learning what you TRULY need to learn accidently. We live in a society where everyone wants the answers right away and to not understand the context. Sometimes, the context is more important than the answers. Searching in this manner forces the context on you before you reach an answer.
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I agree that searching forces the context. However, I also think it's possible to put the context together for people. You're right, society is content on finding what we want right away. However, what about the ordinary people who don't really want to dive so in depth into a pool of XDA Development. Should they not be given the right to flash a ROM to a phone, seeing as how it's pretty simple to do now. For people like me... Computer Science Majors... I love learning this context and don't mind the research, but not everyone is exactly like me or you.
apreichner said:
However, what about the ordinary people who don't really want to dive so in depth into a pool of XDA Development. Should they not be given the right to flash a ROM to a phone, seeing as how it's pretty simple to do now. For people like me... Computer Science Majors... I love learning this context and don't mind the research, but not everyone is exactly like me or you.
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I think everybody should know what he is doing before he´s trying to do it.
They have to know at least about the things that can happen.
In the last weaks dozens of users had bricked their phone´s by not reading, if there wasn´t the goldcard.
I don´t like the idea of people that come to this Forum, get everything served on silver plates and leave again without giving something back to the community.
I developed nothing by myself but at least i read the threads, try to help others when i can with answers or testing their work and give feedback.
There are countless threads and user´s that proof my point.
Zaknafein21 said:
I think everybody should know what he is doing before he´s trying to do it.
They have to know at least about the things that can happen.
In the last weaks dozens of users had bricked their phone´s by not reading, if there wasn´t the goldcard.
I don´t like the idea of people that come to this Forum, get everything served on silver plates and leave again without giving something back to the community.
I developed nothing by myself but at least i read the threads, try to help others when i can with answers or testing their work and give feedback.
There are countless threads and user´s that proof my point.
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Of course they should know what could happen. But it doesn't take a whole lot of threads to tell you the risks, it takes a paragraph, maybe two at most. Just read the back of a bottle of sleeping pills. There are more risks to taking those and yet they fit them in the space the size of an inch, maybe an inch and a half. And if things were organized, it would be like, "If these happen, see this thread." and there's a thread full of problems and solutions. And at the bottom, "If you cannot find your problem, try Searching. Recommend using Google XDA search, because normal XDA search sucks balls."
I have seen the posts of people who have bricked their phone. Although, in my opinion, this can be as much to blame as them not reading, as the material is not easily presented. It also doesn't help that organization has ceased to exist...
My idea was not to hand everything on a silver platter, either way, you have to read something or else you'll screw up... My idea is to take the information already available, revise it, update it, and make it easily available. Rather than hidden on page 2, 3, 4, 5. I'm thinking since there are no mods available to come Sticky some of these really important things on pages 2, 3, 4, and 5... I might just bump them all.
To me, all of this is far from being handed on a silver platter... But perhaps if you are unhappy with gratuity, just don't do anything at all here, instead of expecting more... Leave it to the people who are happy with and feel good about receiving thanks. It reminds me of some guy calling to get support and all he is is directed to an automated service, sometimes you just WANT to hear a human voice for once in your miserable support seeking life...
apreichner said:
Of course they should know what could happen. But it doesn't take a whole lot of threads to tell you the risks, it takes a paragraph, maybe two at most. Just read the back of a bottle of sleeping pills. There are more risks to taking those and yet they fit them in the space the size of an inch, maybe an inch and a half. And if things were organized, it would be like, "If these happen, see this thread." and there's a thread full of problems and solutions. And at the bottom, "If you cannot find your problem, try Searching. Recommend using Google XDA search, because normal XDA search sucks balls."
I have seen the posts of people who have bricked their phone. Although, in my opinion, this can be as much to blame as them not reading, as the material is not easily presented. It also doesn't help that organization has ceased to exist...
My idea was not to hand everything on a silver platter, either way, you have to read something or else you'll screw up... My idea is to take the information already available, revise it, update it, and make it easily available. Rather than hidden on page 2, 3, 4, 5. I'm thinking since there are no mods available to come Sticky some of these really important things on pages 2, 3, 4, and 5... I might just bump them all.
To me, all of this is far from being handed on a silver platter... But perhaps if you are unhappy with gratuity, just don't do anything at all here, instead of expecting more... Leave it to the people who are happy with and feel good about receiving thanks. It reminds me of some guy calling to get support and all he is is directed to an automated service, sometimes you just WANT to hear a human voice for once in your miserable support seeking life...
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The problem is that most new users expect the busy people who already create everything to put together something that would take hundred of man hours for them. Someone has to do it, but unfortunately, I'm too busy to do it. Someone has to step up to the plate of becoming the researcher and write up some nice walkthroughs, properly formatted. I tried doing that for a while, but people ignored those posts and still spammed the forums with the same questions over and over. If we can get some good walkthroughs and a general (here's the links for everything), I'm sure we can get it stickied... but again, it's the responsibility of the new person to read the sticky. Although a lot of new people won't read them, at the very least, it will help those who WANT to try to search. ^_^
ivanmmj said:
The problem is that most new users expect the busy people who already create everything to put together something that would take hundred of man hours for them. Someone has to do it, but unfortunately, I'm too busy to do it. Someone has to step up to the plate of becoming the researcher and write up some nice walkthroughs, properly formatted. I tried doing that for a while, but people ignored those posts and still spammed the forums with the same questions over and over. If we can get some good walkthroughs and a general (here's the links for everything), I'm sure we can get it stickied... but again, it's the responsibility of the new person to read the sticky. Although a lot of new people won't read them, at the very least, it will help those who WANT to try to search. ^_^
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My point exactly. Thank you Ivan.
apreichner said:
To me, all of this is far from being handed on a silver platter... But perhaps if you are unhappy with gratuity, just don't do anything at all here, instead of expecting more... Leave it to the people who are happy with and feel good about receiving thanks.
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That´s not what i was trying to say!
I try to help and would help to start the walkthrough threads but i don´t think this would help. The Stickys allready there aren´t bad especially this sticky
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=369397
I am not frustrated about the done work, i am frustrated about lazy users.
If my point wasn´t clear i think i have to blame my limitited english.
ivanmmj said:
The problem is that most new users expect the busy people who already create everything to put together something that would take hundred of man hours for them. Someone has to do it, but unfortunately, I'm too busy to do it. Someone has to step up to the plate of becoming the researcher and write up some nice walkthroughs, properly formatted. I tried doing that for a while, but people ignored those posts and still spammed the forums with the same questions over and over. If we can get some good walkthroughs and a general (here's the links for everything), I'm sure we can get it stickied... but again, it's the responsibility of the new person to read the sticky. Although a lot of new people won't read them, at the very least, it will help those who WANT to try to search. ^_^
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Agree.
So this is slightly off-topic, but I think it ties in a little bit to a question/reaction that often comes up on the board.
I regularly see people posting a new thread with questions that have been asked before, and others become upset with them for posting something that has already been answered. This then leads to annoyance/anger on both sides, as the question-asker feels bad for not finding the answer (often after searching), and the question-answerer feels frustration because the forum has another new thread for something that they feel shouldn't have to be asked again.
I found this, which is the US Coast Guard's manual dealing with making decisions in stressful situations (it's a pdf). On page 11 of the document, it describes people trying to make decisions in stressful situations. It explains that an individual in a stressful situation where real danger is present (think back to the first time something went wrong on your phone....) will tend to say that there's not enough time to solve the problem, and that the person is not able to process information efficiently. It then says that the person will deny that the problem can be solved (by them).
Translation: The phone breaks (messes up, etc). The person sees that the very expensive device they own is not working right, and they begin to panic that it might not be able to be fixed. They know that XDA is an source for answers and help, and in the panicked state, post a question without thoroughly thinking through the action.
Ok, so why am I on a soapbox about this? Two reasons:
1. I don't know about anyone else here, but I can clearly remember times where I did something to my phone that I thought I had killed it. It was a real uphill struggle to stay calm and search diligently until I found what I was looking for. I would just like everyone to think back to their own experiences like this when replying to people who seem panicked.
2. To people who are panicking because something has gone wrong: try to relax. 99% of the time, whatever is wrong with the phone can be fixed, and you've come to the largest wealth of information available about your phone. Just take a little bit longer to do a little more searching before you hit the post button. And don't be afraid to use Google outside of XDA, or to search within the thread results.
And if I'm wrong, I'm sorry.
(For more reading about stress' effect on decision-making, see this. It's the US Army Survival Manual, Chapter 2).
I vote because they are stupid.
And/or just haven't been in forums enough to understand how they work.
some people here are jerks
I vote nubs. Or just ignorance
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA Premium App
I think most of the time people just don't read up enough before flashing, they come to the site and see a ROM that they just have to get and they get in a hurry and bad things happen.
I read and read for about a month before I dared to flash and I haven't had any problems.
Now my friend comes to me every time she needs help with her phone like I know what I'm doing lol. But really I just know that the answer to any problem is here already you just have to find it.
Sent from my captivate running Speed and Looks Ginger Style
i am a noob so i know why (at least in my case)
1. should have read TRusselo's new user guide on first visit to xda
2. sometimes i search and do not find then a member shows me a thread i didnt know about thus confirming my inability to search successfully
3. some people post things in the wrong section (there is an off topic section, this is the captivate section and posting without searching is not exclusive to captivate users) this is a joke, not serious or meant to offend the |OP|
4. no knowledge of correct keywords to search (all the acronyms is like chinese to a noob) is there a xda dictionary for noobs?
5. the first thing we (noobs) do is panic. then we panic more. finally we relax...then panic again.
on behalf of all the noobs that post without searching we are sorry and as we learn more about the site we will improve upon our mistakes. please be patient with us, we appreciate your help and feel honored to be a part of this site.
We already had a thread like this. Use the search function.
Sorry about that. I'm still hunting for that link, but if you provide it, I'll update the OP.
I have discovered that I can't post up findings, observations or give thanks to the developers in the development form, because I do not have 10 posts
everything I search for I find, so no need to post.... so I am thinking some just post generic questions to get the post that they need.
But I do have to agree with the OP, when you think you killed your phone, you panic
jmtheiss said:
Sorry about that. I'm still hunting for that link, but if you provide it, I'll update the OP.
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I have a feeling that was just a joke playing on what you are posting about
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App
Yep, agree with op
Explains it on a deeper level than noob, lazy, or stupid. Some posses the ability to work in stressful situations and some don't. Those need to learn how before becoming a member of xda.
You're over complicating it. Half of the problem is that the native vBulletin search feature is wimpy and doesn't often return helpful results. And of course it consumes lot of server resources, it's down about as often as it isn't, and even when it is working you can only do it once every 30 seconds if you want to revise research terms or if you make a mistake. A Google cse custom search engine might go a long way toward helping out.
Chiding users for not using search is at least a little misplaced in my opinion. Comparisons to decision-making in critical life or death stressful situations are at least a little off-base.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Rrryan2 said:
You're over complicating it. Half of the problem is that the native vBulletin search feature is wimpy and doesn't often return helpful results. And of course it consumes lot of server resources, it's down about as often as it isn't, and even when it is working you can only do it once every 30 seconds if you want to revise research terms or if you make a mistake. A Google cse custom search engine might go a long way toward helping out.
Chiding users for not using search is at least a little misplaced in my opinion. Comparisons to decision-making in critical life or death stressful situations are at least a little off-base.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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I agree with both views. I have yet to meet a v-bulletin site whose search function was worth a tinker's damn... and a number of the folks who voted "stupid" or "lazy" when it comes to someone posting a repeat question seem to forget that this is a very large forum, with tens of thousands of posts. Sometimes, finding the one post or series of posts that can be of use when you think you've just killed your $199 to $500 phone can be a bit tough.
Also, even when it's not a subject I have a vested interest in finding the answer to, I sometimes appreciate the repeat of a question that has already been asked because often someone (whose ego isn't so invested somehow proving their worth by being "right") will ever-so-kindly skip the lectures and point out threads I had no idea existed--and which I can then bookmark for later reference.
I've learned some very cool things about the care and feeding of my Captivate as a result (to say nothing of gaining more general information on a number of devices), so I'm not overly inclined to squawk when someone asks a question that's been asked before.
kevalin said:
I agree with both views. I have yet to meet a v-bulletin site whose search function was worth a tinker's damn... and a number of the folks who voted "stupid" or "lazy" when it comes to someone posting a repeat question seem to forget that this is a very large forum, with tens of thousands of posts. Sometimes, finding the one post or series of posts that can be of use when you think you've just killed your $199 to $500 phone can be a bit tough.
Also, even when it's not a subject I have a vested interest in finding the answer to, I sometimes appreciate the repeat of a question that has already been asked because often someone (whose ego isn't so invested somehow proving their worth by being "right") will ever-so-kindly skip the lectures and point out threads I had no idea existed--and which I can then bookmark for later reference.
I've learned some very cool things about the care and feeding of my Captivate as a result (to say nothing of gaining more general information on a number of devices), so I'm not overly inclined to squawk when someone asks a question that's been asked before.
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Amen to that!
z28james said:
I have a feeling that was just a joke playing on what you are posting about
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App
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In the immortal words of a small Sicilian man,
"INCONCEIVABLE!"
Next let's hear your theory on pointless, off topic threads!
AJerman said:
Next let's hear your theory on pointless, off topic threads!
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And how to search for them?
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
This thread needs to have an article on the XDA front page portal ASAP
crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
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As a noob who spent a LOT of time/energy/effort researching on my own trying to unnoob myself before asking silly questions I understand where the frustration is from. People like me who took that time (I'm talking many hours per day for straight weeks - 100s of hours!) are frustrated by people who expect easy answers with minimal effort. It's easy to panic if something unexpected happens and you no longer have a working phone but that's the risk you take and no one should bear the brunt of that panic but YOU.
That said, I actually agree with you. I think not replying to people who ask dumb questions is probably a better way to help the community at large. The knee-jerk reaction when tension is high is to send a smart ass response but that doesn't teach anyone anything. I know it's tempting, I've done it, but all it does is feed the troll. If a noob asks a researchable question and NO ONE answers, maybe it will inspire this noob to search for the answer on their own. And if/when they find it, they can be proud of themselves for figuring it out and next time I will bet you they search first and ask questions later. The bigger problem is that sometimes a SUPER NICE person will hold their hand and help them out even if they don't deserve it and then everyone expects this treatment every time.
Point of fact: if you're on XDA you are probably trying to pimp out/modify your phone in some way. This is your choice, and some of the options available to you are not easy. If you aren't prepared to put in the time to become familiar with it first, it isn't worth the risk. I'm sure there is some clause to that effect in the XDA rules everyone agrees to when they sign up but they always forget that.
crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
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I don't know too much about things but I'm already willing to learn if i have the time for it. I agree about the rudeness, and every forum is different. I was on the g1 forums too and understand what you mean. When i got my 4GS I came here when deving was picking up on the few excellent ROMs we have now. My device had the new bootloader so i had trouble at first picking up on things since i couldn't S-OFF and had to fastboot boot.imgs EVERYTIME i flashed a new ROM.
I had to read read read like crazy and put many hours into getting my phone to where it is now (rooted and S-OFF via Juopunutbear) and only when i really needed help and couldn't figure things out on my own is when i asked about something.
All it takes is a little effort and i try to help where i can (as little as that may have been...lol) Sometimes i can understand the frustration from both sides.
There is tho, a difference between being rude and getting upset after you tell someone what they need to know and they don't do it. You see people asking the same questions over and over AFTER they've been given a clear fix to the answer and i can see why some get pissed. I know if i can do these things that ANYONE can.
We have good devs and quite a few that truly are willing to help where they can. With the g1 there was an overflow of devs and others who helped. (Can't really compare them) The lack here limits time for most who already have their hands full so we have to be willing to do some things ourselves.
I'm not telling you to leave but things will be this way here probably permanently. Don't think everyone doesn't want to help tho cuz most do
Sent from my 4GSlide using xdApp
Considering you've made MULTIPLE threads regarding problems that already have STEP BY STEP guides, it's kind of hard to be patient and spoon feed all the answers.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?searchid=42059167
gtmaster303 said:
Considering you've made MULTIPLE threads regarding problems that already have STEP BY STEP guides, it's kind of hard to be patient and spoon feed all the answers.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?searchid=42059167
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Oh man. I should have checked that before spending the time to type out a thought-out response. It confuses me when people spend so much time begging for step by step instructions. In that time you could have read the compendium and had it done by now!
Also - it's the internet. If someone hurts your feelings by being rude on the internet, grow up or log out. Cyberbullying is a serious issue if someone knows your true identity, but you choose to come here. Flame posts are discouraged because they are usually unhelpful. They clutter up threads and get in the way of useful stuff which makes them wastes of bandwidth and forum space. They are not discouraged because somebody might get their feelings hurt. (If I'm wrong about that - don't correct me. I would be super bummed if XDA was that sensitivo about stuff.)
crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
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Totally Our Thread is DEAD cause no one wants to ask for help because of some of the obvious responses
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
K7Cobb said:
Totally Our Thread is DEAD cause no one wants to ask for help because of some of the obvious responses
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
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Like search it? I don't know where this is going? I understand being helpful. But when you have the same question being asked by 20 people. Being answered about 100x, it's annoying.
But I agree flamming is getting out of hand. There should be a thread just for Noobs. To ask stupid as questions, and not be flammed.
Sent from my MIUI V4
AgentCherryColla said:
Like search it? I don't know where this is going? I understand being helpful. But when you have the same question being asked by 20 people. Being answered about 100x, it's annoying.
But I agree flamming is getting out of hand. There should be a thread just for Noobs. To ask stupid as questions, and not be flammed.
Sent from my MIUI V4
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Just one thread for noobs? Why not an entire forum? No, forget that...how about an entire website for noobs????? I'll invent this! I think I'll call it PPCGeeks.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201
Every post asking a question already answered multiple times clutters the forum and makes it harder to find those very answers for other people.
Finding one thread in ten is easier then one thread in fifty, especially when forty of them are worthless.
I have volunteered countless hours researching, testing, and writing in-depth step-by-step guides that someone who has no experience can sit down and follow through.
Honestly, asking for things already detailed like that is hard to deal with - the only way to do so would be to physically do it for them.
Everytime I see someone make a whole new thread just to advertise that they are too lazy to go read the answer, it makes people like me think twice about taking the time to write these guides.
I don't usually post to these kind of threads, but it's here so why not.
There would be more walkthroughs and tutorials if people took the time to read the ones already here. Why make them if people won't read them anyway?
So all you people out there who can't be bothered to look for the answer before asking your question, you are turning away the developers and people who could answer your questions.
The more people show up begging for a handout, the less people there are giving it. Eventually that road leads to nothing but beggars, with no one to beg from.
If it wasn't for people asking intelligent questions based on having read my tutorials, I wouldn't consider any further ones. If someone doesn't get it, but actually put effort into trying, I'm happy to help.
Someone can't be bothered to even try to help themselves, why should I try to help them - especially after they are making it more difficult for others to get the help.
Others who deserve it.
Others who have earned it by investing time and effort.
So, I implore people to take the time to understand what XDA is. It is not instant gratification.
Don't ruin what you don't understand.
Every post not adding something constructive is taking away from the ones that do, in a big way. The larger the database becomes, the harder it is to index and process server side, and the harder it is to navigate and use client side.
The answer is here - just look for it.
Be kind, considerate and helpful - try to add more then you take away.
If my post offends you, then you are part of the problem.
So Close the Thread and Move On
I'm by no means a stranger to technology but I am relatively new to rooting phones. I've done my research and through my own trial and error, figured out how to root my phone. As others have stated, I spent several hours browsing this site looking for the answers even before I upgraded to the 4GS. What I've seen on these boards is while there are multiple threads asking the same questions, there have also been condescending replies from some. While it could be considered warranted to be frustrated with the constant barrage of repetitive questions, why not just close or delete the thread instead of firing back at those who are too lazy to do their research? If you're worried about cluttering up the boards/threads, why contribute to it?
eparico said:
I'm by no means a stranger to technology but I am relatively new to rooting phones. I've done my research and through my own trial and error, figured out how to root my phone. As others have stated, I spent several hours browsing this site looking for the answers even before I upgraded to the 4GS. What I've seen on these boards is while there are multiple threads asking the same questions, there have also been condescending replies from some. While it could be considered warranted to be frustrated with the constant barrage of repetitive questions, why not just close or delete the thread instead of firing back at those who are too lazy to do their research? If you're worried about cluttering up the boards/threads, why contribute to it?
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Because the mods are not here to be babysitters, and the community should be self policing to an extent.
Every once in a while it's necessary to explain why being inconsiderate and expecting people to do your work for you is detrimental to the community.
Detailing why expecting people to invest their scarce free time and energy into the effort some are too lazy to even attempt, and how that degrades the resource this community is hopefully educates some and prevents them from doing so in the future.
It's threads like this where those types get together and reinforce their ignorance, and encourage others to follow suit that exacerbates the problems for the rest of us, and creates bigger headaches for the mods to deal with.
Again, hopefully a little education goes a long way, and the gamble is that a few posts highlighting the problem and how it hurts prevents more like this from popping up.
I mean, when the information asked about is in a stickied post ( as all too often it is ) that is literally an intentional and blatent abuse and subversion of the forums.
...and lastly, I have no computer to dev on so for once am willing to try to plead with the ones who would try to hinder our exchange of knowledge from doing so.
Sent from a digital distance.
Blue6IX said:
Because the mods are not here to be babysitters, and the community should be self policing to an extent.
Every once in a while it's necessary to explain why being inconsiderate and expecting people to do your work for you is detrimental to the community.
Detailing why expecting people to invest their scarce free time and energy into the effort some are too lazy to even attempt, and how that degrades the resource this community is hopefully educates some and prevents them from doing so in the future.
It's threads like this where those types get together and reinforce their ignorance, and encourage others to follow suit that exacerbates the problems for the rest of us, and creates bigger headaches for the mods to deal with.
Again, hopefully a little education goes a long way, and the gamble is that a few posts highlighting the problem and how it hurts prevents more like this from popping up.
I mean, when the information asked about is in a stickied post ( as all too often it is ) that is literally an intentional and blatent abuse and subversion of the forums.
...and lastly, I have no computer to dev on so for once am willing to try to plead with the ones who would try to hinder our exchange of knowledge from doing so.
Sent from a digital distance.
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Don't get me wrong, I feel your frustration and those of the other developers and/or mods who are constantly attempting to answer questions that have been asked and answered multiple times already. I've been supporting end users for several years and there are some who no matter how many times you tell them something (sometimes kicking and screaming the entire time), they either ignore what you say or flat out refuse to learn since there's someone there to scoop them out of the hole they put themselves in. I fully agree that some are deserving of a good cyber-smack and told they're being inconsiderate.
However, those who reply to these same threads are also expending just as much time and energy, if not more, telling someone they should do their own research instead of just removing or closing the thread in question. In turn, this would serve to help eliminate that blatant abuse and IMO, take a lot less energy and frustration with the ignorance out of the picture. It would also help to keep the threads and the space needed to maintain this site to a minimum. Self-policing will only work to a small degree. Should it be the responsibility of the mods to babysit? No, but you also can't expect every person who comes to this site to have enough sense to do their own research either. I've dealt with enough end users where I find the expectation from some is that they should be served on a silver platter. After a few time of dealing with this, I reply by not replying.
By the way, I love this site and I thank you and all the other developers who have created these ROM's for those of us who like to tinker with our toys...and read the instructions!
eparico said:
I reply by not replying.
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This is my usual stance as well, but also include the report action.
By self policing I didn't necessarily mean snap back, mostly report so mods can delete.
You keep saying delete the thread, as if an end user has that priviledge, but we don't. It's easy to say, but harder to implement.
Back to the mods babysitting, even through the report function it may take some time for them to get to the thread, based on availability and priority.
Meantime, you do nothing and it's like a wound untreated, and just festers growing continually worse.
What can you do? Some people passed the patience threshold a long time ago. Those that say nothing are percieved to let them just run rampant.
Threads like what this started as, and the ones we are discussing are real blows to morale and interest.
I used to dedicate at a minimum my first half an hour of every login to trying to answer or find answers to questions people have, and help them get themselves straightened out.
Anymore, it seems that most of the questions asking for help are just from people like the discussion is about
If I open the first thread, and it's a question asked all the time with the answer in a sticky, I'll move to the next.
If the second one is too, well, anymore that's as far as I go before I just log out and find something else to do.
It used to be that i'd end up spending several hours over that dedicated first 30 minutes typing up detailed replies and explanations of why people were getting into the problems they were and trying to help them understand how Android works under the hood.
That would get me all juiced up and i'd flow into hours of dev, manning the irc channel and just immersing myself in the doubleshot.
Now... Well, when those first couple of questions are like what this thread is about, it just saps my motivation, the very desire to learn that puts me at the keyboard for so long.
The people replying with smart-ass remarks and garbage are just as much to blame for keeping those threads at the top of the list as the ignorant people who started them in the first place.
Given that I am starting to catch up with myself at work and having free time in blocks of hours to work on Android stuff for the doubleshot, more often then not I sit down all ready to work on something fun and new, just to find myself walking away from the keyboard somewhat depressed and disappointed instead.
A large part of my desire in working on projects for the community was to help people get more out of their device by delivering stable, working software and encouraging education and learning.
Those that want to be spoonfed are winning, I've been recently choosing to do other things then even try to browse the forums here.
I dunno, it's like I went into life to handle some things and start a much more enjoyable and higher paying career. Now that I'm settled in and can spend time back here again, it's like I don't even recognize it anymore.
They say you can't go home once you've been away, because while you may be in the place you once called home it won't be that anymore when you get there.
Never thought in a million years i'd feel like a stranger in the doubleshot forums, but here we are and here it is.
It's kinda made me sad to write this.
Sent from a digital distance.
Blue6IX said:
You keep saying delete the thread, as if an end user has that priviledge, but we don't. It's easy to say, but harder to implement
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After re-reading my post about deleting/closing the thread in question, I didn't word my comment properly. Unfortunately, this responsibility would end up on the shoulders of the admins/mods...the proverbial babysitting we were referring to earlier.
Sorry if this is a sour subject for you. If anything though, I'd take into consideration the number of people who you have already helped on this site instead of looking at the ones who bring you down. I've seen some of your threads and replies to those who you are willing to help and you provide a wealth of knowledge and information. There will always be someone out there who is willing to read and absorb what you teach, and perhaps even share it with others so they too can learn. As a supporter of end users, I understand that feeling of wanting to give up but what keeps me going is the knowing that I helped some of them along the way. The bad apples will always be just that, bad apples. I work in the education field (thankfully not a teacher) so I see this type of mentality on an almost daily basis. Toss them aside and remember you have already helped many more good apples than bad.
Geez, I feel like I'm preaching here so I'll get off my soap box but I'm sure you get the point of what I'm trying to say. Don't ever give up and don't let the boneheads get the better part of you. Lots of people on this site appreciate what you do, including myself.
This thread doesn't need to be taken down......it should be stickied for future reference!!
There are very simple rules that span across the internet. One of them is use search on forums. If you don't know this rule, frankly, you shouldn't be messing around with your phone in a way that violates the warranty or changes the configuration beyond what your grandmother can do with the same phone.
Creating threads without searching is the equivalent of going into a crowded mall, standing in the middle and shouting, "I NEED HELP HERE PLEASE". I think many will agree that any person that does that in a mall is an a**hole. You're not ENTITLED to help.
You SHOULD know this. If you don't, you're new to the internet, and perhaps you just don't have the skills or sense to be messing around with your phone.
The one thing that you can't expect people to know is that the answer to your question MIGHT be located in another device's forum. For example, how do you install Time Warner's app on rooted devices? You'd have to search the whole site. But now that you've read this, you know better.
We've all made mistakes. How you make up for them is key. I pay developers. What do you do?
WeekendsR2Short said:
This thread doesn't need to be taken down......it should be stickied for future reference!!
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Not even close...
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda app-developers app
gtmaster303 said:
Not even close...
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda app-developers app
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Just a touch of truthful sarcasm......:angel:
Blue6IX said:
.....It used to be that i'd end up spending several hours over that dedicated first 30 minutes typing up detailed replies and explanations of why people were getting into the problems they were and trying to help them understand how Android works under the hood.....
Now... Well, when those first couple of questions are like what this thread is about, it just saps my motivation, the very desire to learn that puts me at the keyboard for so long.....
....Given that I am starting to catch up with myself at work and having free time in blocks of hours to work on Android stuff for the doubleshot, more often then not I sit down all ready to work on something fun and new, just to find myself walking away from the keyboard somewhat depressed and disappointed instead.
Sent from a digital distance.
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Blue (and others)
Please don't get disheartened, certainly don't give up on XDA. I am relatively new to Android, certainly new to rooting, and I haven't even tried ROMs yet (that's for next week!). I am still working towards my 10 posts, while I've rooted and S-OFFed using the guidance available here.
In my time, I have researched & read up pretty widely on this forum and on others, on all the things I would like to do or am intrigued to find out about (custom boot animations - wow!). These is so much repeated and conflicting information out there. In doing that you soon get to recognise the posts that explain carefully, give step-by-step guides, and are helpful. You also quickly learn whose name is on those posts .They have a natural authority that lends credibility and builds trust. Those posts are the ones I bookmark and use, and those people are the ones I take advice from.
Your name is all over the best and most useful posts. There are others too but I won't name them here. Please don't stop - your efforts are appreciated. If you stop, I have to stop too, as who do I then learn from?