Why are tablets so hit and miss?

Why are tablets so hit and miss? - General Topics

Alright, I'm a bit curious as to why some tablets are bang and some tablets are bust in the XDA community.
I've heard the nook color had a lot of popularity in the dev world, and there already seems to be a stir on the Kindle Fire.
The only real thing that makes the the kindle fire a deal breaker for me as a possible mod friendly tablet is the lack of an SD card option.
I don't "like" the lack of features, but besides the sd card nothing is a deal breaker, it still seems to be getting a good bit of attention and will probably be a really popular tablet with people who like modding.
I understand the sale on the touchpad was a big plus.. but, I'd be worried about the discontinuing of the line meaning a very limited support life, so even if hp does make a few more.. I would hesitate to buy.
Just seems like a lot of options get looked over here in the mod world. Maybe I'm jumping the gun, But I'm worried the A1 for lenovo won't get much support, the Elocity tab for 250$ (with a tegra 2) doesn't seem to have any support..
It just seems like it is really "hit or miss" and I can't help but wonder why?
What makes tablets really appealing around here, and then other tablets spec'd close or higher, don't seem to get a second glance at the same price?

Those are great questions, probably all comes down to user preference though???

smccue said:
Those are great questions, probably all comes down to user preference though???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought about that.. But, I'm not entirely sure it holds up...
I will admit, before I seriously consider a phone or tab, I check dev support to make sure in 2 months if the OEM decides "we don't want to upgrade, so our newer model sells better." I can get the latest updates from devs at least.
Just seems like there would be a rhyme or reason to the tabs that get dev support here.

user preference also Goal, like which market they are aiming for
the smartphone is easy, because the Goal is to "be a phone", everything else is just fancy extra
but as a Tablet, the focus is no longer the same, and unless they know who they are trying to sell to, they will be just shooting in the dark, with random spec, random audience, random targets, random everything.
so if ANY manufacturer or some one who has control in any of the big companies making android tablet and reading this...
it'll be in your best interest to only develop to 2 audiences only:
- Gamers
- Webers (netbook replacement, your regular consumer that don't really know what they want)
now there's a potential for a 3rd audience (not a good time yet, too ripe)
- Work... but as we all well know, currently there are not enough productive Apps that is worth swaying people over, specially in the market mainly dominated by MAC or PC applications such as Photoshop, AutoCad, etc, etc
If a tablet can wow a Gamer, it will easily gain fly time in the web blogs and news, easily subject to reviews and benchmarks
which all translates into ease sales, with enough hypes.
obviously to get such hypes you must really have good tech packaged into the tablet
currently the only tablets worth buying are the ones made by Samsung, everything else are just meh... not quite there yet, or missing this or missing that

Hm.
Interesting points.
As someone who is a bit of a hardware junkie.. I am only just very recently beginning to feel like the tablets are being placed properly in the market.
I hope that the trend continues, just hoping that we see more support by devs. I mean as a gadget enthusiast.. I do admit even now the tabs leave a lot to be desired.. but, the lenovo A1 has my attention.. Especially if it gets a healthy dose of rooted ICS.

Related

[Q] should I keep my gtablet

I bought my gtablet 2 weeks ago. I have 30 days to return the baby. Following are my questions.
1. I know lot of pundits are calling 2011 as the year of tablets. Did I jump the gun and bought it too early? gtab's spec was the reason for the buy.
2. Do you think in the future they will release firmware update to honeycomb since google doesn't recommend froyo for tablets?
3. lot of the current apps dont work.
4. you tube streaming is horrible.
5. last but not least the screen.
I appreciate the efforts of several guys on this forum for supporting the device. however I am still on the side line as far as introducing other roms on the device. so it limits my gtab to some extent.

Difficult question to answer since it ultimately depends on your expectations and personality. Viewsonic has (recently) been pretty good about releasing updates and working with the dev community here at XDA; that indicates that there is a possibility (not certainty) that they will continue to do so into the new year. The G-tablet's hardware will support Honeycomb, so it is reasonable to expect them to release an update IF Honeycomb is released within Q1 or Q2 of 2011.
If you are holding back on loading a rom, the question we need to know "why" before we can give you more meaningful advice. If you're holding off because you're considering returning the unit, that's one thing (and understandable). If, however, you are uncomfortable loading roms, that's another. All I can tell you is that the G-Tablet is a fantastic device with both VEGAn and TnTLite--much better and faster than stock TnT. I anticipate the XDA devs will probably actively develop/improve their roms for at least Q1 & Q2; probably longer if Honeycomb is released within that timeframe. We must acknowledge, however, that Viewsonic's recent updates are making strides into improving the user experience, so that remains an alternative. Bottom line: if you're willing to educate yourself on loading roms and doing the market fix, the G-Tablet is the best bargain out there currently.
As to some apps not working, some apps don't work on my HTC Evo either. The G-Tablet seems to run most apps very well. This is surprising since Froyo & Gingerbread apps aren't really designed for tablets. I see no reason to be alarmed regarding the G-Tablet's ability to run apps or play YouTube currently (which I have no problem with on TnTLite or VEGAn).
There will be better tablets released this year. For one thing, the G-Tablet's screen is poor quality when viewed at an angle. Also the front facing camera is mediocre at best. Other than those 2 issues, the hardware is very solid and will probably not be surpassed until Q3 of 2011.

no. do not keep it. i had one last week for two days (long enough to experience the latest update). its not great without the willingness to mod it by the end user.
today i bought a galaxy tab, and its exactly what i was hoping for when i bought the gtablet last week. sure, i now have a monthly data subscription, but only for the first 6 months (tmobile) and then i can drop it. and yes, i did spend more on the device... but maybe thats why the viewsonic product was so bad, because its an entry model device based on awful software and flimsy hardware (mine creaked).
the samsung has everything i was looking for... android market, swype, youtube, flash, etc. etc. etc... its just awesome.
dont wait too long to return. youll be sorry.

No one can answer that question for you, it is for you to decide. Not even the above poster's answer is valid - except for him and his experience. I also tried the Galaxy Tab and I hated it. Yes, much nicer screen, but the seven inch size was a no go for me. Everyone's needs and experience is different so don't do anything based on what someone here tells you to do.
If you feel up to mod'ing the G you can end up with a nicely functioning tablet, albeit with a screen that has a lousy viewing angle, but, on the other hand for a lot less money than other alternatives.
I am a total noob to Android and went to the irc chat room for the G and someone there walked me through the rom change. I now have a nice unit, runs smoothly, fairly fast and its doing what I need it to do. It still has a lousy screen viewing angle but I also have an extra few hundred bucks in my pocket that I didn't have to put out for a Galaxy that I didn't like.
Ultimately it has to be your decision. There are a number of people in here who are willing to help out if you want to take advantage of their help.
R

Take it back quickly. Get the Galaxy Tab......wait...didnt I just hear they are locking down the bootloader on it. No Gingerbread or Honeycomb unless Samsung lets you have it. So it has the the potential of being outdated already. But seriously, if your having 2nd thoughts about a purchase....RETURN IT!!!! It's your money. Why would anything we have to say have any bearing on your remorse.

If you're having buyers remorse already then I would say return it. Usually when someone asks a question like that they have issues or gripes with the device. This tablet has the hardware to be great and the software is catching up to it. There is a decent backing behind the product and that's a great thing. As for the screen users have been running tests with other screens to try and find an alternative.
For me I personally love modding my device to make it my own. If you're the type of person that wants a complete out of the box working tablet then I would return it.

I don't think any of the tabs out today has an advantage over the other. If ur gonna return the gtablet, don't get anything else that's out right now. I would just wait a few months. Or at least wait til the prices drop on the alternative tablets.
As other posters has said, u haven't seen the capabilities of this tablet without flashing a rom or modifying the stock ui.
Just to answer some of ur questions
No I don't think u bought it too early because tegra 2 tabs are gonna be expensive next yr albeit they will probably have better screens and camera. You just purchased a tablet with next years hottest cpu at a pretty fair price.
Yes, viewsonic has earned my trust that they will update this device. I also have the utmost confidence in our current devs to bring us faster roms.
All the apps I have works. If ur talking about the g sensor games then I would agree but that's not a lot of apps.
You tube streaming is super fast on my vegan tab. Other flash sites too! Especially justin tv. I have a wireless n router and when I stream from those sites no stutter at all.
And the screen...umm no comment lol.
Overall, I'm happy with my purchase and u should be too unless u got extra money to spend and/orthe patience to wait til next yr.

No....send it to me.

Thanks everyone. I am not new to android. Mt3g and currently vibrant. But never flashed a rom. So nervous. Things I like are hardware and no contract. On top of that I got it for 30% off. So really a bargain. But I offset it by buying extended warranty.
Called viewsonic cs but that number is not working. Tried 4 times, after the automated voice and 10 mins hold the call disconnects and it got me concerned.

nexusonemeover said:
the samsung has everything i was looking for... android market, swype, youtube, flash, etc. etc. etc... its just awesome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny, I can say the same things about my GTablet. Granted, it's maybe 95%-98% of the Market, and I had to tinker with it, but I'm a big boy who likes to tinker.
Unfortunately, the devs here have taken away some of the fun by making it so easy to download and flash the rom.
But hey, glad you are enjoying your Galaxy Tab. And if you were so unhappy with your GTablet, stop trolling the GTablet forums.
-=Sent from my VS GTablet (VEGAn b4) using Tapatalk=-

popezaphod said:
Funny, I can say the same things about my GTablet. Granted, it's maybe 95%-98% of the Market, and I had to tinker with it, but I'm a big boy who likes to tinker.
Unfortunately, the devs here have taken away some of the fun by making it so easy to download and flash the rom.
But hey, glad you are enjoying your Galaxy Tab. And if you were so unhappy with your GTablet, stop trolling the GTablet forums.
-=Sent from my VS GTablet (VEGAn b4) using Tapatalk=-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ill rephrase for the sensitive folks... some people need (or want) the device to work out of the box, no changes required. the gtablet just isnt that device.
in an increasingly crowded marketplace where devices are getting better and better at launch, a device like the gtab takes a backseat for out of the box readiness. yes, you can mod till youre blue in the face and get it to do most of what others do from the get go, but having to mod to get it almost there is not optimal for every user.
and to the other deflating comment, i love XDA and i will troll whatever forums and whenever i wish... pardon me for posting an opinion in a public forum.

I was also worried I made a bad decision with my gtab purchase a week ago as well. I came in to an unexpected $400 and decided to treat myself to a gtablet. The day after I got it I flashed the vegan 3 rom. That fixed the "bad software" issue for sure. The my only concern was with the screen. But my worry was 2 fold: 1) viewing angles. 2) "fuzzy" graphics. I'm used to my Droid X having razor sharp fonts and graphics, which the gtab does not. Part of the problem is the screen quality which is related to the viewing angle. I think the bigger part has to do with resolution. The gtab resolution is 1024 x600 pixels @ 10.1" while the Droid X is 854 x 480 @ 4.3". Packing 66% of the pixels into 42% of the screen size helps make things sharper.
So I'm now at the point where I'll keep the gtab. I'm not 100% satisfied, but it's pretty damn good. Maybe there will be luck with finding a better LCD that can be dropped in. If next year a better tegra 2 tablet comes out, then I might just switch and sell my gtab on ebay. I won't get what I paid for it, but I'm hoping to get at least $250 for it. I would have gotten $130 worth of use out of it.
As for flashing a new rom; It is really easy to do with the proper instructions. I had not done any rom flashing since I have a droid x, and was kinda reluctant as well. But now I look back and realize there really wasn't anything to be nervous over. Most of the "caution, you may brick your device" warnings you read are similar to the medical wavers you sign that say "you might die" even though you are just getting some teeth pulled. Yes, it can happen. But most of the time everything works out fine.

I think you would need to be happy with it the way it is today to keep it. There are no guarantees that it will get any further updates from VS. In fact it really seems like a product that they had branded just for the holidays.
I'm still undecided about mine, but I suspect that once I see what comes out of CES, the gtablet will probably go back to Sears.

sam96_77 said:
I bought my gtablet 2 weeks ago. I have 30 days to return the baby. Following are my questions.
1. I know lot of pundits are calling 2011 as the year of tablets. Did I jump the gun and bought it too early? gtab's spec was the reason for the buy.
2. Do you think in the future they will release firmware update to honeycomb since google doesn't recommend froyo for tablets?
3. lot of the current apps dont work.
4. you tube streaming is horrible.
5. last but not least the screen.
I appreciate the efforts of several guys on this forum for supporting the device. however I am still on the side line as far as introducing other roms on the device. so it limits my gtab to some extent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nexusonemeover said:
ill rephrase for the sensitive folks... some people need (or want) the device to work out of the box, no changes required. the gtablet just isnt that device.
in an increasingly crowded marketplace where devices are getting better and better at launch, a device like the gtab takes a backseat for out of the box readiness. yes, you can mod till youre blue in the face and get it to do most of what others do from the get go, but having to mod to get it almost there is not optimal for every user.
and to the other deflating comment, i love XDA and i will troll whatever forums and whenever i wish... pardon me for posting an opinion in a public forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sam, I agree with the people who've said that noone can tell you. As someone who prefers not to mod myself, I am right there with you in feeling out the insecurities of dropping a chunk of change on something that may or may not be faulty in relation to actual hardware or that's shaky in terms of future software releases and support. The thing is, in a case like this, we're all early adopters here....and the problem with cookie cutter devices like the G Tablet (cookie cutter meaning the same base hardware as a plethora of devices coming soon) is that it really doesn't get a whole lot of respect in terms of software from the people that sell it because at the end of the the day, they're in it for the money like all companies are but more so they're not all about loyalty or trying to keep customers. If they can get you to keep your device for 30 days - that's money in their pocket no matter what.
That is the raw, real truth of the matter. I have certainly had my own ups and downs with it but unless there's a DEEP hardware issue - I'm not seeing a reason to return mine. If you REALLY don't want to mess around with ROMs and 3389 (newest OTA) isn't satisfactory for you, then I'd say return it. Something faster and better will always be on the horizon, and if you keep returning or waiting for the next best thing, you end up with nothing. And we'll always have buyers remorse, believe me...there's always a reason to return a buy.
At this point, we have no guarantees that Viewsonic will support it beyond Froyo. They have never claimed, nor said they would and when it comes to devices like this. That's a cold hard fact. They're dabbling in the tablet waters, and if it doesn't 'work out' for them they could just decide to call it quits in terms of releasing updates and supporting it. Even if they do decide to go ahead and jump into the market, when they release new equipment we don't really have anyone at viewsonic saying "don't worry, your tablet will be upgraded for as long as it can be". We just have to hope and have faith.
I would say, if you really don't want to nor see yourself modding your tablet. Even in the lightest, then maybe it isn't the device for you. Get an iPad...where you know Apple has a vested interest and will release updates for it as long as it can be updated. But if you see yourself dabbling, even a little bit (it really is pretty easy and for the most part safe), then I believe 100% that this tablet is going to be a powerhouse next year when honeycomb hits (barring any unforeseen internal hardware faults currently).
To Nexus, you've made a point in that the Galaxy Tab IS indeed a great device and workable right out of the box but there are pretty big differences which make them very different. I also think that yes, it is preferable to the G Tablet for people who want that out of the box usefulness. But is the Galaxy Tab a value, I really don't think so. Quite simply, you're paying a lot more for a lot less.
Kind of like buying a VW Bug with great insides vs. a VW Touareg with some glitchy insides (that are quite possibly fixable in the near future).
For one, the Galaxy Tab is single core - meaning right now what you see is what you get. The G Tablet will have new doors opened when Honeycomb allows the second core to be utilized synchronously (I think? and hope). The Galaxy Tab is a 7inch device which by all means is a big difference than the 10inch G Tablet. I have used 7inch devices and they feel like really big phones. Still quite usable and maybe even preferable by some, but not all. The G Tablet feels like flat computer in comparison and the bigger screen is obviously noticeable. The Galaxy Tab is $200 more than the G Tablet without a contract. It is $350 with a contract, but you must have data on the account for, you say 6 months, right? That's still a minimum of $530. Is the G Tablet perfect, no way. But by all means it's great hardware with great potential for a value price right now. The Galaxy Tab on the other hand, is a great out of the box experience fit for anyone out there, but lacking the power and potential of the G Tablet - better screen? sure...but not necessarily a better buy.
Coming from owning a Vibrant, maybe I'm a little biased, but I wouldn't be too sure Samsung will be paying attention to the Tab for too long into next year, especially when the new hotness the Galaxy Tab 2 is released....and all this talk about locking bootloaders etc. I dunno. I feel better that even if VS takes a dump and refocuses elsewhere, at least the devs here will be taking care of us for a while.

^^^ Very insightful reply. And, you made some good points I had not considered.
Sent from my SGH-T849 using XDA App

sam96_77 said:
Thanks everyone. I am not new to android. Mt3g and currently vibrant. But never flashed a rom. So nervous. Things I like are hardware and no contract. On top of that I got it for 30% off. So really a bargain. But I offset it by buying extended warranty.
Called viewsonic cs but that number is not working. Tried 4 times, after the automated voice and 10 mins hold the call disconnects and it got me concerned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
30% off!!!! U lucky son of a gun haha. Well that makes the gtab a great buy. I'm jealous.

I was disapointed until Loaded Vegan and did the calibaration fix,also practically bricked it and had to load ubuntu linux cuz windows driver would not work but now i am very happy this thing is so fast!
And mind you the software is not optimized for Dual core processor.
Definately not for the none tech inclined.But if you are willing to root and want a solid Android device this is it!
I could get a galaxy tab but why would i pay for internet i can tether off my evo for free.
Sent from my VEGAn-TAB-v1.0.0b4

I will try the simple answer. Keep it.

If you dont want it, ill take it for $250. Wont pay $400 for it from Sears and all the "refurbished" ones on Sears Outlet @ $279 are no where close to me and they dont ship.

nexusonemeover said:
ill rephrase for the sensitive folks... some people need (or want) the device to work out of the box, no changes required. the gtablet just isnt that device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely agree with you. The Galaxy Tab is, in fact, the closest thing to an Android tablet that works out of the box.
Anyone buying an Android tablet before June 2011 is basically an early adopter. If you want something that Just Works(tm), your best bet is to go the premium route and get a Galaxy Tab. If you don't have the money and don't want a service contract, you're going to have to do some hacking in some way, shape or form to get things working.
And yeah, I can be a crabby ***** sometimes.

REALITY CHECK: Look Ahead, Not Back!!

Roebeet has posted a thread trying to get Viewsonic moving on setting some things
straight that need to be set straight -- and that's good and I agree with it.
What it has done that I don't like, though, is that it has created negative thoughts
and backlash against what I think is the most economical, most powerful, most flexible
and most user adaptable tablet on the market -- the G-Tablet.
I sorry, but even though I agree with Roebeet and I understand the realities of
the corporate world -- I AM NOT FINISHED WITH MY TWO G-TABLETS YET!!!
I think some people bought the G-Tablet thinking that first thing you know the software
would be upgraded and they would suddenly have a fourth- for fifth generation
supertablet. Ain't gonna happen.
The G-Tablet was bleeding edge when it came out and except for the screen it did
and still does have some of the best specs out. The software left a lot to
be desired, but if you look at Version 3991 (the UAT Roebeet downloaded and
hopes they will finish and OTA) -- the latest stock is not too bad. And the alternate
ROMs are great too.
BOTTOM LINE: With or without VS support, the G-Tablet is a good tablet and
it is not dead. As long as we are all here and the devs are devving and the
modders are modding and the helpers are helping and the users are playing --
WE'RE IN GOOD SHAPE.
Yes, I eventually plan to add another tablet when I see one I think is worth
it -- BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? I haven't seen anything that particularly catches my
eye yet.
REALITY CHECK: Get that G-Tablet out and get back to whatever you do best.
VS may need prodding.....but we're still in business!!!
Rev

I am so glad you haven't given up preaching entirely, Rev. I've been thinking the same thoughts all day and just couldn't articulate them.

I kicked $5 to roebeet, just as a thank you for being so involved and proactive.
I hope he uses it for the tasty beverage of his choosing, and comes back when the stress has dissipated.

I agree that it has created some negative sentiment towards the G-Tab, that should be focused more on VS, which I think was the intent. However I think in a way it needed to be said if for no other reason to grab VS's attention, which is seems to have done.
I just wish people could separate the Viewsonic support issue from the device itself, which VS does not even build to begin with. I purchased mine knowing I was going to "technically" void the warranty as soon as I got it. I literally purchased the Gtab because of XDA. I also purchased it to watch and wait over the next several months to a year to see the dust settle on Android tablets and see who is really putting out a high end on.
I really like my Gtab and had no illusions on what I was getting. I researched for over a month before I got it. Viewsonic was not even a consideration.
On the other hand I understand the issue that is being fought here with VS. We need the fundamental software support to help the dev of the other roms and to provide the actual customer support, especially for the thousands of Wooters who purchased this and not really wanting to go the custom route.
In the end I think the post was needed, but agree that people are getting a bit too negative for really no reason. I mean why would you dump a device that you already paid for. It is not like you are hurting the company that you already purchased it from.
On a positive note you have Vegan Ginger being released today and looking down right awesome. CM7 is looking awesome, TNTLite, gAdam, etc. This is one hell of a community device.
I am not going anywhere.

Well, no supports means no updated NVidia drivers, which means a substandard video viewing experience with Gingerbread (and Honeycomb, if it comes), which would be a good reason for ditching it for a different tab. Some people can live without it, but I do watch video files on mine. And don't quote me on this, but no support also means no hope for using both cores on 2.3 and above.
Whether I stay or go depends on the price of the Transformer. If it's too much, I will live with the screen. 2.2, and the various quirks for a while longer.

I was a little concerned that a number of people were ready to jump ship because of my weekend rant - that wasn't the effect I wanted it to have.
But, if anything else, it seems to have shaken things up a bit over in Viewsonic - so it might turn out OK. Just sit tight and let's see if they run with the ball, now.
I agree that losing ongoing support (if it happened) wouldn't suddenly make your device useless. But, it is still important to have vendor updates as they have the source code and we still make mods off their releases (especially me, with TNT Lite / TwoTapsX). For example, they'd have a better chance of pressuring Nvidia to change their stance on Harmony than any of us in XDA will.

Boy, all of this really does remind be of my early Amiga days.
Look what happened there.

D Wright,
I had been through two operating systems with Heathkit and CP/M before "DOS" ever
came along!!! I remember MP/M and CNIX and quite a few others.
I can also name a pile of brands I used over the years.
Bottom line -- your happiness with whatever hardware or software you have is based
on what you do with it and not how much it costs or how long it lasts.
Rev

I don't put any weight to what most people say here. Their opinions change with the winds. Like many others, I bought my gTab after I read up in this forum with the full intent of never running stock. So I never expected anything at all from Viewsonic. In fact, I have almost erased from my memory that these tablets came with a Viewsonic logo on it since I have had a rear skin on both of my gTabs for the past four plus months. And I also haven't been running any of the TnT roms.
No matter the hardware these tablets wouldn't be as useful without the fine work of the modders and developers here at xda. While I do have a special fondness for my gTabs, I will sell one of them when the Asus Transformer is released here in the States.

I don't understand
I don't understand some people. They buy the g-tab, at a great price, with dev support like you'd never dream of getting from Microsoft or most other companies. Its all FREE and as soon as some new buzz comes out there is a rash of "I'm dumping my g-tab to go buy ...." Yesterday the g-tab was great and today it is a piece of junk???? Meh.... those are fanboys and they probably should just go buy an iPad that they can flash around Starbucks to impress their friends. Personally, I bought my first g-tab to try an android tablet to see what you could do with one. I bought the second one because there was just so much cool stuff to try. Like everything else, the day you buy it it becomes "obsolete" but if it does what you want it to do, who cares? I'm quite happy that I still have XP on my laptop because it is stable and not as annoying as the os that came after it. Ubuntu is great on my netbook. Now, if only I could decide which g-tab rom is the best!!! Trying the vegan gingerbread now to see what happens with that... Go Devs!

enigma0456 said:
I don't understand some people. They buy the g-tab, at a great price, with dev support like you'd never dream of getting from Microsoft or most other companies. Its all FREE and as soon as some new buzz comes out there is a rash of "I'm dumping my g-tab to go buy ...." Yesterday the g-tab was great and today it is a piece of junk???? Meh.... those are fanboys and they probably should just go buy an iPad that they can flash around Starbucks to impress their friends. Personally, I bought my first g-tab to try an android tablet to see what you could do with one. I bought the second one because there was just so much cool stuff to try. Like everything else, the day you buy it it becomes "obsolete" but if it does what you want it to do, who cares? I'm quite happy that I still have XP on my laptop because it is stable and not as annoying as the os that came after it. Ubuntu is great on my netbook. Now, if only I could decide which g-tab rom is the best!!! Trying the vegan gingerbread now to see what happens with that... Go Devs!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha! I know what you mean. If I only had one gTab and didn't have the means to spend another $400 on another tablet I would definitely hold on to mine for a long time due to the great hardware. But fortunately I have 2 gTabs and can sell one off to buy the Asus when it drops and spring for the difference out of pocket.
I travel for work often and currently I take my gTab with me along with a mini keyboard. My kids use the other gTab for games and reading. So my plan is to sell off my gTab and buy the Asus with the keyboard dock to take along on my trips. The functionality, quality, and versatility of the Transformer is really appealing to me. Plus it seems several of the xda devs are also planning on buying one. In the end, I will still have a gTab in the house so hopefully I will have the best of both worlds.

my only real concern before spending the money on this tablet is the lack of nvidia support and drivers. I can live without a good stock rom, hell I haven't ran a stock ROM on my droid x since i bought it. My big concern is the fact that any gingerbread roms and future honeycomb roms aren't gonna have the proper video drivers and will always have lagging issues.
Granted video playback isn't the only reason i'm gonna buy a gtablet, but it's certainly an important feature, and a future of only being able to run froyo based roms is a little disappointing.

davidukfl said:
my only real concern before spending the money on this tablet is the lack of nvidia support and drivers. I can live without a good stock rom, hell I haven't ran a stock ROM on my droid x since i bought it. My big concern is the fact that any gingerbread roms and future honeycomb roms aren't gonna have the proper video drivers and will always have lagging issues.
Granted video playback isn't the only reason i'm gonna buy a gtablet, but it's certainly an important feature, and a future of only being able to run froyo based roms is a little disappointing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x10000000000000

enigma0456 said:
I don't understand some people. They buy the g-tab, at a great price, with dev support like you'd never dream of getting from Microsoft or most other companies. Its all FREE and as soon as some new buzz comes out there is a rash of "I'm dumping my g-tab to go buy ...." Yesterday the g-tab was great and today it is a piece of junk???? Meh.... those are fanboys and they probably should just go buy an iPad that they can flash around Starbucks to impress their friends.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that's an unfair assessment. For $100 (speculation...) extra, or more if tax is charged, you can buy a far superior in almost every way Asus Transformer. I don't think anyone has said the gTab is junk, but it pales in comparison to the tabs being released with a slightly higher price point (USB port is not important to me ...). The gTab made me realize I really wanted a tablet, but I've also had to fight this thing to get it to work properly, and frankly I'm a little tired of the battle.
Do I want an IPS screen, higher resolution, more memory, GPS, manufacturer support, and Honeycomb for ~ $100 more? Yes, yes I do. I do appreciate all the work the devs have done here, but I'm moving on the minute a date is set for the Transformer.

Could you elaborate with details on why you are concerned about the lack of support in the future for video drivers?
(not a rhetorical question, I just haven't seen anything pointing to that yet)
Thanks

roebeet said:
I was a little concerned that a number of people were ready to jump ship because of my weekend rant - that wasn't the effect I wanted it to have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course we'd have that many people ready to jump ship. People like to be melodramatic. I've been lite-fixing people's computers for years. That's what they do. They like to exaggerate and complain.
Case in point. I read a lot of reviews online before buying the gtab. One of the more ridiculous complaints I saw people complaining about the gtab is the black area around the screen. What immediately came to my mind was (1) if there was no black area around the screen where are you going to hold the device? and (2) the ipad has a hell of a lot more black area around the screen.
I agree with you that what viewsonic is doing (total media blackout) is annoying. I still don't understand why they are so reluctant to push this device. With the hardware specs, VS is literally sitting on a goldmine with the gtab. And with just a little bit more software support, the gtab could very well be a direct competitor to the xoom and ipad2.
That said, for those of you who want to jump ship, that is your choice. I highly recommend the ipad2 or the xoom.

jvigier said:
Could you elaborate with details on why you are concerned about the lack of support in the future for video drivers?
(not a rhetorical question, I just haven't seen anything pointing to that yet)
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
posted on the nvidia dev forum
"NVIDIA is only supporting the Ventana platform for android releases going forward. At the moment we have released Froyo and Gingerbread OS images for Ventana and will release Honeycomb after Google has done so.
Andrew Edelsten
Tegra Developer Relations
NVIDIA Corporation"

sry, but I retunred my Gtab to TigerDirect
First: the software sucks, most of them are not designed for tablet and I cant even play angry bird with proper click!
Second: the battery life sucks, I read the review which saying 8 hours playing time, the truth is 8 Hours standby time!
Third: I need a good stock ROM.
I will just wait for Asus TF
100 bucks more, bettet product, better screen better support, Asus softwar support is good

goodintentions said:
I agree with you that what viewsonic is doing (total media blackout) is annoying. I still don't understand why they are so reluctant to push this device. With the hardware specs, VS is literally sitting on a goldmine with the gtab. And with just a little bit more software support, the gtab could very well be a direct competitor to the xoom and ipad2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At this point in time, I dont think this is true. It could have been true had this device had a sucessful launch. Now, all of the buzz surrounding Android tablets has been focused on Honeycomb. With nvidia indicating Harmony drivers will not be released for Gingercomb, the gtablet suffers from an almost insurmountable competitive disadvantage. (IMHO)
Mine isnt going anywhere right now, as it does what I want it to and I love what the devs are doing

i purchased my gtab in November at office depot for 400+ and the first thing i did was load vegan rom on it heck if not for ehunyadi detailed videos on YouTube i would not have purchased the tablet, i knew the screen wasn't not perfect but that wasn't the issue, i have had many problem with the gtab...small annoyances when combined turn into frustrations.
One of them being sound, i have found on vengan rom the sound was just WAY too LOUD, it seems like the volume meter worked on a Richter scale doubling the sound from level 1 into 2 now maybe it was just me but i was unusable at level one with any wired headphones, i have a Bluetooth headset/headphone that i use on a daily basis, i used to hate it that it did not auto connect and when i the headphones died or disconnected sound would not work until next reboot
I never had the luck of the "FULL MARKET FIX" that i heard so much about and boy did i try, it was basically a shot in the dark weather some apps would work or not
I would find myself making excuses for the gtab for the many annoyances and it not working as it should, not saying it wasn't a great device but i got my uses out of it and felt that it was time to move on, purchased an ipad2 it came in last Thursday and so far im happy with my decision but there are annoyances as well mainly do to the video player but im just waiting for the jailbreak
Im no fanboy if anything i dislike apples strategy (i still have my iphone 2g and is my only phone) toward leaving the 2g behind, but i believe you should have a device because of what it does for you, its funny how people are such fanatics or have so much hate for something based on the brand

Some (hopefully) interesting thoughts about Ipad versus Gtab

It seems everywhere I look while doing my g-tab research, this debate rages. And, just like abortion and the relative value of left wing versus right wing, most of the time the debate degenerates into name calling and general idiocy. I actually think it IS an interesting discussion to have.....and one with valuable points to be made on both sides. It is important for people to go into the decision of which product to buy with a full quiver of knowledge rather than buying something which doesn't meet their needs or wants. Whether we are talking about three hundred bucks or six hundred, it is not pocket change.
First and most out of character for me, I want to talk about the strengths of the ipad. It is, in typical Apple fashion, a beautiful, iconic, well designed gadget that makes gadget whores the world over salivate to get their paws on it. Despite the many negatives about a closed technosystem (which I will get into later) Apple's technosystem also provides a simplicity and elegance that is almost unmatched in the operating system universe (with the possible exception of Webos). When I am advising friends on what computer or gadget to buy, if money is not an object, I always say this: if you want to do ten things simply and elegantly, ios is a great choice. But if you want to do an eleventh thing, or any of the first ten thing in a different way, Apple won't let you.
Surprisingly, one of the arenas that Apple is really dominating is portable gaming. After years of being a PC gamer and scoffing at my Mac gamer friend with their pathetic game library, I thought that Android would at least be on par. Much to my shock, even Webos is a vastly superior platform for gaming when compared to Android. It is my opinion that Google and Nvidia need to address the sad dearth of good games ASAP if they have any hope of breaking into a race in which they are already a lap behind.
Finally, I will say that Apple has done a masterful job of building an absolutely rabid fan base. As an overarching company, it's frankly shocking the kind of product dedication they are able to inspire. A few years back when Apple laptop hard drives were failing at an alarming rate, my hard core Apple friends looked for ANY excuse to let the company off the hook. But they have worked VERY hard through marketing and mostly (minus Steve Jobs) fantastic public relationsto build that kind of relationship with the consumer. Android and it's various licensees need to develop an interface that is much more user friendly and accessable to the non technically minded public.
Now to my beloved Gtab. Clearly from a hardware perspective it is on par with, or arguably superior to, the ipad. What seems to be overlooked in these discussions over and over is that to compare the Gtab and the Ipad is essentially the same thing as comparing a Honda and a Lexus. A Honda will most likely last as long or longer than a Lexus, and run as well or better. But people who buy Lexus are willing to pay a tax on luxury and brand name. But the Lexus costs over twice as much, so ultimately comparing the two based on their merits is less valuable than asking what the owner wants from their purchase. Clearly the Gtab, clocking in at around half the price of the Ipad, is a far better bang for the buck. But if what the consumer wants is the brand name, cool factor, and the 'it just works' mentality, and they are willing to pay a premium for the 'privilege' of owning Apple, then an Ipad may very well be the right choice for them. However, I think that with VERY little
technical know how, the Gtab quickly becomes an obvious alternative. It obviously holds the advantage when it comes to the web (complete flash compatibility is a fairly huge advantage right now and could become a bigger one as people develop useful flash apps for business), and the open market is both an advantage and disadvantage. There is no quality control in the Android market, but there is also far more scope for creativity and innovation now, and depending on how Google etc play their cards, and most definitely in the future.
Obviously, cheap memory expandability is a massive advantage to the Gtab. Non- expandable devices, in this era of cheap flash memory, cannot be looked at as anything but simple greed. The same goes for proprietary ports and cables. Gtab has a clear advantage here with usb, micro usb, microsd, and the possibility of easy hdmi out in the future.
Android itself has major advantages and disadvantages. It is not nearly as intuitive or as easily picked up as Ios, but it has far greater room for quantum leaps forward. Ios, to avoid alienating it's core users, is forced to take a far more conservative, evolutionary approach. Android needs to use this to it's advantage by making bold, market changing leaps forward and continuing to undercut Apple on price point, rather than playing catch up and releasing expensive tablets and trying to compete with Apple at what they do best (I believe the Xoom was a fairly major miscalculation, but won't go into that now). Apple is at risk of falling into operating system complacency like Palm did in the early 2000s. Android should leap on innovation, and reward it well....swype is a fantastic example of this. I'm writing this on my Gtab with swype right now, and there is nothing in the virtual keyboard world that even comes close.
In closing, let me say that I choose Honda over Lexus. I choose an open technosphere where I can use technology as I wish. I love my Gtab and plan to use it for the foreseeable future...but I pray that Nvidia and Google get together and realize that an open system doesn't have to mean a system without a game plan. Nvidia needs to get on the stick and release a raft of games that show off the technology Tegra 2 can bring to the table. Android tablets, and specifically sub 300 tablets could be a real draw to young gamers as an alternative to the new DS and the forthcoming PSP IF they had a good library of possibilities. They need to continue to support those of us that have already jumped aboard. Make us be the missionaries of their coolness. Just in the Woot/Tigerdirect liquidation over 10,000 Gtabbers have been added to the ranks. That is NOT an insignificant number. They need to build as many IT/business friendly apps as humanly possible. Apple's insistance on doing things their way has left them extremely vulnerable to any companies that can offer a more business friendly solution. This and this alone is why RIM is still in business. If Viewsonic and all other licensees could get even a portion of the 18-25 portable game market AND get a portion of the 30-50 business market, they would be in an excellent position to take a bite out of the big Apple. Having said all this....I admire Apple. I admire their consistant refinement of already existing technology. They may only make evolutionary leaps, but damn they do it well. But as long as I can buy more product and more freedom for half the price, that's the way I'm walking.

I'll just say that I bought the gtablet for the family so that we could surf the web on a comfy couch. Web content includes flash. The ipad doesn't support flash.
The OS is irrelevant when you're surfing the web, so the choice is obvious.

What was the point of your thesis? Who and why would you go with any general consensus on any man made products these days especially when they are mostly made in China with the exception of the lexus Isn't that one of toyota's non-braking brands? Mostly people are swayed by emotional responses to what they feel they may be getting. It is sad to know so many are building their self esteem, self worth, value from having or owning innate objects including g tab. Enjoying is one thing but feeling superior as a result of is another.
I can't stand apple products for me they have no value. The company is not environmentally or human rightfully responsible. Coupled with the arrogance of jobs thinking the entire Internet should change their usage of flash because he doesn't have the capacity to put it into his products. And I particularly don't like the ipad because it is nothing more than a pictorial cash register with the lion's share going to apple. Nothing about Apple appeals to me not even the design. The fisherprice gui or the odd shapes and the rotten apple logo. Anytime you bite into an apple and leave it uneaten it rots. To each his own reasons to buy or not to buy.

edirector said:
Enjoying is one thing but feeling superior as a result of is another.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny story. So, I was sitting on the train other day going home. Had my gtab out playing some games. Out of all the seats that were available around, one guy had to sit down right next to me. I usually don't mind so I usually have my stuff between my legs instead of taking up a seat like some people. So, without pausing, this guy got out his ipad 2 and started playing games with it.
What I found funny was that I was dressed practically in rags because I had spent the whole day in the concrete lab working on one of our test machines. This guy was in some casual business attire (very white collar-like).
The gtab really is the poor man's tablet while the ipad and the xoom are the rich man's tablets.
I can't stand apple products for me they have no value. The company is not environmentally or human rightfully responsible. Coupled with the arrogance of jobs thinking the entire Internet should change their usage of flash because he doesn't have the capacity to put it into his products. And I particularly don't like the ipad because it is nothing more than a pictorial cash register with the lion's share going to apple. Nothing about Apple appeals to me not even the design. The fisherprice gui or the odd shapes and the rotten apple logo. Anytime you bite into an apple and leave it uneaten it rots. To each his own reasons to buy or not to buy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't go that far with apple. I do recommend apple to most people who ask for my advice. Let's admit it. Apple really is made for those who only sees the outside. And it works right out of the box.

goodintentions said:
Funny story. So, I was sitting on the other day going home. Had my gtab out playing some games. Out of all the seats that were available around, one guy had to sit down right next to me. I usually don't mind so I usually have my stuff between my legs instead of taking up a seat like some people. So, without pausing, this guy got out his ipad 2 and started playing games with it.
What I found funny was that I was dressed practically in rags because I had spent the whole day in the concrete lab working on one of our test machines. This guy was in some casual business attire (very white collar-like).
The gtab really is the poor man's tablet while the ipad and the xoom are the rich man's tablets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't stand apple products for me they have no value. The company is not environmentally or human rightfully responsible. Coupled with the arrogance of jobs thinking the entire Internet should change their usage of flash because he doesn't have the capacity to put it into his products. And I particularly don't like the ipad because it is nothing more than a pictorial cash register with the lion's share going to apple. Nothing about Apple appeals to me not even the design. The fisherprice gui or the odd shapes and the rotten apple logo. Anytime you bite into an apple and leave it uneaten it rots. To each his own reasons to buy or not to buy.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't go that far with apple. I do recommend apple to most people who ask for my advice. Let's admit it. Apple really is made for those who only sees the outside. And it works right out of the box.[/QUOTE]
But it doesn't ipad 2 has serious operable issues and economic standing in life has no correlation to tech toys. Who can't afford an iphone they are selling for $49 and you can get ipad at walmart. People utter such nonsense in reference to apple products. I paid $500 for my cell phone cash.
It boils down to a matter of choice. For myself I will own 2 or 3rd of these products none apple. I will pick up playbook next as soon as I see what the development community can do with it. My spouse offered to buy me an ipad not costing me a dime I said don't waste your money.

I agree and have said much the same thing since I bought my first Droid 1. I have since upgraded to a Droid X and the Gtab.
Apple is great, if you like living inside a tight little box. Android is for those who like to express themselves and push the limits.
Then I started some new classes and they give me a Macbook Pro. I must admit, the packaging was very nice, especially compared to my last HP (that is now trash because HP won't support it...) but the first thing I did was pull out my copy of Windows 7 and partition the hard drive. I might have to do some of my design work on the Mac partition, but the rest of my time is spent on a "normal" computer.

I would agree with a lot of the thoughts already expressed on this thread, however I don't think that the gtab is a "poor man's tablet". To say so implies that our tabs are somehow less than the xooms and ipads. In almost every category the gtab holds its own or far exceeds the competition. In fact, with the exception of the display (which I actually don't have issue with since I'm in landscape all the time anyway), I think the hardware is superior in every way to the ipad. The fact that Viewsonic managed to make a product compete on a level playing field with the top tablets in the market today for less than half the price is incredible and goes to show how much the manufacturers (especially Apple) are making off of consumers.
I do recommend ipads for my friends who aren't tech-savvy. As was said before, Apple products just work and you do have to respect that. The completely closed system in which they operate allows for total control and an unparalleled experience for the AVERAGE user. My Evo and my gTab are inoperable for some length of time about once a week because I won't stop messing with them. And Apple products do look sexy, in a man-purse gucci sunglasses kind of way.
Comparing iPads and gTabs as Honda and Lexus isn't a fair comparison. A better comparison would be a modded out Nissan Skyline GT-R with twin oversize turbos, nitrous, and a shake-your-neighbor-out-of-bed-to-watch-your-burnout tunable exhaust (That's the gTab) versus an out of the box Ferrari. Both are fast. Wicked fast. And both look sexy in different ways. The most important thing is that they both run a 1/4 mile in pretty much the same time. The Ferrari has a v12 and a carbon-fiber monocoque chassis from the factory, but the Skyline has more cupholders. The guy driving the Ferrari gets out of his ride at the local Starbucks and has every money-grubbing trophy wife drooling on it. The guy with the skyline has to reprogram his standalone ECU to back it out of the garage, but gets his hood shined by models for Turbonetics. The Skyline has a back seat.
The gTab is not a poor mans tablet. The gTab is a tablet for people who want to smoke that d-bag in the ferrari but are smart enough not to drop $120k on it. And comparing the gTab to the iPad isn't even worth doing. The hardware is too close to call, the benchmarks are inconclusive at best. What we should be doing is comparing end users of these products.

I would say both have their places. I love my gtab and believe it suits my needs and temperament to a tee. However, I am by training and inclination a tinkerer and I don't mind the occasional lockup or reboot as the price I pay for the ability to tinker. My wife and mother, on the other hand, would be seriously torqued if it happened to them on anything approaching a regular basis. Consequently, they both have iPads and not gTabs.
I am the antithesis of an apple fanboy (my wife gets pissed because I constantly refer to her iPhone as an iSuck) but not really for any reason other than what I perceive as the inherent arrogance of The Steve and his minions. And I dislike being dictated to. But other than my philosophical issues with apple I really can't say too much negative about the iPad, other than I think it's ridiculous that they have neither SD card support or, and I consider this borderline criminal neglect, USB ports. For people like my technophobic mother though, they are just what the doctor ordered. The iPad is the only device we've ever found that will consistently allow her to access the web and email without turning her off or intimidating her.
On the other hand, I think the android tablet market has a lot of promise but is trying hard to strangle itself at birth with the pricing structures the manufacturers keep adopting. That's all I will say about that for now (though I did rant about it here: http://www.swamphole.org/content/tablet-computing-101). If the vendors can get that under control and Google doesn't piss too many people off with their to-date refusal to release Honeycomb, I think these tablets have a very bright future. Right now I don't think any of them are stable enough for anybody but the people who are tech savvy and/or don't want an iPad for whatever reason. For those folks that are willing to put in the effort I think devices like the gTab can be made into far superior tablets than any iPad.

Thanks, Macros764, for your post. This us (non-Apple users) versus them (Apple users) feeling has existed for ages now and it's good of you to remind us that there are 2 almost entirely different markets (and possibly mentalities) at work here. Another person noticed what you hinted at in your post (the Honda vs Lexus distinction) and commented on it long ago.
I'm talking about Neal Stephenson's interesting essay, "In the Beginning... Was the Command line", which you can search for on Google (as a new poster, I can't add a direct link here).
His essay written in 1999 was about Linux, Windows and Apple users, but you can replace Linux with Android everywhere in that essay and it will still all ring true.
I like Mr. Stephenson's terms for the different kinds of users. Android users are like H. G. Wells's Morlocks--they're the ones who like to tinker with stuff and tend to know how those things work. Apple users have always been the Eloi. They don't care how things work as long as it does (and it looks good).
I tend to be a Morlock (and I suspect a lot of the users on this forum are too, to varying degrees), but some days, I wish I could be an Eloi.
Enjoy reading the essay. Be warned that in true Stephenson style, it is a very long piece.

An enjoyable and thoughtful piece - better than the usual flames and rants that the word Apple usually provokes. Never one to miss an opportunity to add my two cents, here I go. To begin with I have many years experience - I was in IT before the PC was born so I've had a chance to watch the whole thing from start to finish. There was a time when there was just DOS and every computer ran it - branded or clone. There was another alternative CP/M and I used it but it died by natural selection. I think there was even Unix around at that point but it was specialized. Later there were a lot of different things to choose from Windows, Apple, Commodore and lots of other things that have disappeared. Windows evolved into the os for business (after IBM shot itself in the head with OS2) and Mac became the os for graphic arts. It kind of stayed that way for a long time and Apple really was a niche market. Linux appeared but it was brutal in those days. Everything was manual setup, X sometimes worked and sometimes didn't and you had no idea how things would work on your particular box. I have been playing with linux since those early days but ultimately in my business environment windows was the os of choice. Apple remained something that "the print guys" used. In my mind the displacement of the walkman by the ipod marked the shift of Apple's fortunes. Whether it was the cash or the public perception of Apple or both they suddenly became a much bigger player. They clearly "got" the marketing thing and their closed garden approach did make them very palatable for the masses who were willing to pay extra to be safe from the blue screen of death, endless virus attacks and debacles like Vista. Linux has continued trudging but the continued fragmentation still prevents it from really getting into the game. Ubuntu is the best hope for Linux in my opinion. They seem to have figured out that mainstream users don't need 10 different word processors in each distribution - just one good one that works something like Word that people are used to. I think that if Ubuntu continues the way it is going it will see more and more adoption over time especially as Windows becomes more and more clunky in the effort to squeeze cash out of increasingly savy users. The problem for Ubuntu is that it may be too late.
Increasingly, I find that the tablet idea that I once scorned is probably the direction that things will go in for many users. Executives where I work want to know if they can have a tablet - not a laptop to take with them. People at home are happy to curl up on the couch with a tablet to surf the web, read email and interact with friends. Apple knows this because they have had the experience with the ipod, the iphone and now the ipad. Their closed world gives them a huge advantage because they don't have to worry if google is going to release the source code for them or if Invidia will bother to write drivers for them. They control it all.
So, what's a g-tabber to do. Well we can't make Google release Honeycomb, we can't force Invidia to write drivers and it doesn't seem like we can even get Viewsonic to do much of anything. I worry that Android will fragment the way Linux did and all the competing versions will just sap the strength of the whole.
That said - I've got Vegan Ginger on my tablet, I've added Clemsyns kernel with CIFS support so I can access my files on my server. I've picked and chosen apps, 99% of them free so I can do almost everything on my g-tab that I can on my PC. It is fast, cool, and completely under my control. I keep pushing the envelope to see what else I can do with it. If it never evolves beyond where it is right now it will still be the best $300 I've spent on gadgets. The developer support in this forum is enviable and I know that I haven't done or learned everything about the g-tab yet. So my g-tab may not be the expensive fancy sports car ripping down the highway that the ipad is but man, when I go off roading and mud bogging with my g-tab, I have a blast! So choose your vehicle for you activities and don't try and second guess yourself or anyone else. Life is short - be happy!

austontatious said:
I would agree with a lot of the thoughts already expressed on this thread, however I don't think that the gtab is a "poor man's tablet". To say so implies that our tabs are somehow less than the xooms and ipads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it implies any such thing. It does, however, define your social status. It's like what school you went to for college. For some, the only reason they went to school A, which costs $60,000 a year, is because they're following the family tradition and the father is some lawyer or doctor. For others, a school like Iowa State or U. of I. looks just as good but costs only a fraction of what school A charges.
The ipad and the xoom really were designed for people to show off. Everything about them looks, exterior wise, looks good and classy. The gtab, for lack of a better word, is ugly looking. Here is what Robert has to say about the difference between an android device like the gtab and something more high class like the xoom or the ipad.
Android is like having an old beat-up Chevy - not much to look at at first, but after some tweaking under the hood, a good paint job and redesigning the interior, you have a great car that not only runs and looks good, but is designed for you because you made it that way. iOS is like a really nice looking car that came off the assembly line - looks nice, runs great and all the car shops have accessories for it, but there's nothing unique about it. Looks like everyone else's car. So it depends on what you want.
In almost every category the gtab holds its own or far exceeds the competition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And yet a lot of people on this forum have specifically expressed that if they had the money they'd buy the ipad or xoom.
In fact, I am convinced that if the ipad, xoom, and gtab all cost the same, nobody would even consider buying the gtab... except for me. I like to hunt down non-mainstream items to own. I don't like my stuff to look like everyone else's.

I have a G-tablet. I like it. I wish it had Netflix and HuluPlus like the Ipad. I wish it was easy to find accessories for it, like the Ipad. Having not ever actually used an Ipad, at this moment I sort of wish I had one, If I had one I would probably miss all the tinkering I can do with my Gtab.
If my Gtab could stream netflix and huluplus it would be no contest.

Pexcer said:
I have a G-tablet. I like it. I wish it had Netflix and HuluPlus like the Ipad. I wish it was easy to find accessories for it, like the Ipad. Having not ever actually used an Ipad, at this moment I sort of wish I had one, If I had one I would probably miss all the tinkering I can do with my Gtab.
If my Gtab could stream netflix and huluplus it would be no contest.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have both an iPad2 and a Gtablet. The iPad2 is very nice, and does what it does very well. And, it prints to the local laser printer. Streams netflix, etc.
You have to jailbreak it to get access to the stripped down MacOS that is iOS, with shell, etc, which I'm not doing - did that with an iPod Touch a few years ago, and although its fun it really doesn't add much now that the app store has soaked up most developers.
iPad2 = just works. If it does what you want, you're golden. If you're willing to risk a $600 device, you can jailbreak it and gain a level of tinkering that is about 20% of the tinkering you can do in Android on the GTablet.
So, yeah - GTablet is way more fun to tinker with, swapping in new kernels, playing with various roms... Android is still a lot rougher as well, and more open (you can drop in stuff *not* from a walled garden) but for the average person who just wants a pad to couch surf, read the news at breakfast, do their email, read books, or play games... iPad2 is going to do it. It's going to do it as well as a laptop, and a lot more conveniently, without the hassle of virus checking or other crap that most people would just as soon not deal with.
I feel like the "status symbol" argument is a strawman. If you're just a regular person, not into coding, tinkering, etc... not into more than surfing and email and maybe some games, the iPad is going to be as good as a laptop, and about as much if not less in cost. This is why the iPad is eating into laptop sales, and killed the netbook market.
Can Android get there and compete? Unless Honeycomb is way WAY better than Gingerbread, I think they're at least a year if not two away from parity with the current iPad2 just on software. Again, I'm not considering myself (or likely anyone who would even visit xda-developers) as the iPad target market. But there are way more people in the target market than are here

I have both. I bought the G tab back in January knowing full well the issues with it. It was my intention to mod it like most here but for one thing or another haven't done it yet. I do like customizing main screen anyway I like to, with widgets and such, something the IPad can't do. The fact that I can convert movies on my pc and copy by USB drive is great. Photo viewing, music, surfing the net, audio books are great on it.
I decided I really wanted the IPad for my business which has many more and better apps suited for it. I can take pictures of job sites , keep track of estimates and invoicing with some very good apps.*
The whole Mac cult is creepy but I knew about that. The display is very good, no denying. Form factor, great.
I am keeping both of them.

Android: Does the OS sell the hardware? or is the hardware selling the OS?

When it comes to android, you know that you have an outstanding range of hardware. From the low-end Optimus T/S to the titans of the OS such as the Galaxy S2, and everything imaginable in between. These days, you can even find generic china phones running an, often dated, android. Every carrier has it, they come in all price ranges, and they're available on demand. The question I pose to you, "Is android's key selling point the hardware?"
I understand that numerous XDA members and even some outsiders enjoy the limitless customization options made readily available in android and that's awesome. However, the general consumer is happy to end customization at setting their own ringtone. It's not a breaking factor for the majority that you can swap out kernels. Overall, android is a decent enough platform, but for the masses, I see little that it offers, hardware aside, that it's competitors don't.
Here recently, a thread was posted regarding the ASUS Transformer 2, a pentacore processor in a tablet. Now, most people have yet to exhaust the resources on their dual core phones. A penta-core device seems to be pushing the limits. Considering that it is running a mobile OS, by the time those cores could be utilized, wouldn't the tablet be long outdated? However, I know it will sell well because the word "Penta-core" sounds too awesome for the masses to pass up.
Another occurrence I've seen, having worked in retail shops for some time. A lot of customers, when asked about what OS their phone is running, will reply, "HTC" or, "Samsung." A lot of them have no idea what our little green friend is. Another point towards my personal opinion that the hardware is a huge selling factor.
Overall, android is a very complete platform. It is not my daily driver, but I do enjoy it whenever I have time to tinker. I am inquiring about this matter to get your opinions, what sells? Hardware or software?

I think for me its a little bit of both. I like the fact that the hardware is there in my 3d when I need to push the system really hard. Its not often I do, but its good that when I do, it executes the tasks with ease.
On the same hand there are huge software benefits for me. I love the UI and that I can set swype gestures to open particular apps or settings. It makes multi tasking tthat much easier and fluid for me.
Also, at least from what I have seen with iOS5 (my girl has the 4s) is that android seems to be ahead in certain areas of functionality. For example it is not an innovative thing (to me anyways, being an android user) to be able to back up your device without the use of a computer... I have been doing wireless backups and internal backups since I bought my first android phone.
I think one thing you mentioned before... I think it was you, anyways... was pretty much right on when you said that android is capable of meeting so many different needs in the sense that you have a wide range in variety of devices to choose from and at different costs. There are high end phones available such that perform to today's standards in the mobile world, and there are lower end ones available that are more cost effective.
I feel if you yourself are innovative and creative, you are way more capable of taking an android phone and building the UI to what you want/need. I don't sacrifice functionality for speed, ever. In the end it is still just a phone, but I prefer this platform because it caters to that need I have to customize my phone the way I want it to be, not what somebody else feels it should be.
---------- Post added at 02:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 AM ----------
And to address your comment about the bajjillion core tab....
Seems the hardware is way ahead of the software in this case... therefore, I am not impressed by it.
I have a Motorola xoom and it has plenty of power to do what I need it to do. I will not be taking it back to simply have two more cores under the hood. And somebody else mentioned the new kal el device only has 1gb of ram? In my opinion that is really disappointing for a device with that kind of processing power.

i buy phones based on hardware specs
the OS is optional
I prefer to load my OS of choice
just like my PCs / Laptops

z33dev33l said:
When it comes to android, you know that you have an outstanding range of hardware. From the low-end Optimus T/S to the titans of the OS such as the Galaxy S2, and everything imaginable in between. These days, you can even find generic china phones running an, often dated, android. Every carrier has it, they come in all price ranges, and they're available on demand. The question I pose to you, "Is android's key selling point the hardware?"
I understand that numerous XDA members and even some outsiders enjoy the limitless customization options made readily available in android and that's awesome. However, the general consumer is happy to end customization at setting their own ringtone. It's not a breaking factor for the majority that you can swap out kernels. Overall, android is a decent enough platform, but for the masses, I see little that it offers, hardware aside, that it's competitors don't.
Here recently, a thread was posted regarding the ASUS Transformer 2, a pentacore processor in a tablet. Now, most people have yet to exhaust the resources on their dual core phones. A penta-core device seems to be pushing the limits. Considering that it is running a mobile OS, by the time those cores could be utilized, wouldn't the tablet be long outdated? However, I know it will sell well because the word "Penta-core" sounds too awesome for the masses to pass up.
Another occurrence I've seen, having worked in retail shops for some time. A lot of customers, when asked about what OS their phone is running, will reply, "HTC" or, "Samsung." A lot of them have no idea what our little green friend is. Another point towards my personal opinion that the hardware is a huge selling factor.
Overall, android is a very complete platform. It is not my daily driver, but I do enjoy it whenever I have time to tinker. I am inquiring about this matter to get your opinions, what sells? Hardware or software?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First time I have to agree with you pal.BUT:
i)Those guys/gals whose customisation needs end with setting the ringtone are the ones who won't care or even won't realize if the OS is different between an iPhone and an Android device.
ii)Android offers most(if not all) of the things other OSes offer,plus the infinite customisation capabilities no other OS has.Now this is what matters for those of us who can do more than changing the ringtone.
Other than these two things,I generally agree.In the end,though,it's user preference that matters.And people's idiocy in fact.Hell,many people buy their phones depending on how many megapixels their camera can do!

AllGamer said:
I prefer to load my OS of choice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd prefer that too, but mobile hardware is pretty much completely closed, so this is not really possible in practice, except maybe on very very few models.
To answer the title question: I don't know about others, but for me it's definitely the OS. Android is the closest to Linux as I'll probably get on a phone, people are free to cook up their own ROMs (not completely free in many cases, there's closed components in every ROM, but oh well), vast customization capabilities, for getting software you're not limited to one store with draconian rules and sometimes arbitrary decisions.

Certainly a combination of software + hardware with a little bit of company preference.
But considering the range of manufacturers for android based phones, I find it hard to lag behind hardware wise.

1) I look for a device that I think will last me the three years of my contract or at least the majority of it
2) I look here on XDA and see what the dev community is like
3) I buy the phone

I would guess that for 80%+ of phone buyers the main factor is price. Sure they know about the iPhone and the Samsung Galaxy devices, but for most those phohnes are out of their price bracket. So they find the device which has the same sort of idea but in a cheap package, which has helped Android no end since there are low end Android devices, and Apple have little interest in that.
For myself as a more techie person, I use Android becuase of the freedom to do what i want with my hardware. At least that's why i got into Android. Now I will continue to buy Android devices, but the major reason is I've invested in the app market, I have tens of pounds worth of apps for Android. To jump to anotehr platform now would mean having to start over with that. That's the power of these stores and markets, once you are invested changing platform is a lot more of a jump that just deciding which you like the most at the time.

countstex said:
I would guess that for 80%+ of phone buyers the main factor is price. Sure they know about the iPhone and the Samsung Galaxy devices, but for most those phohnes are out of their price bracket. So they find the device which has the same sort of idea but in a cheap package, which has helped Android no end since there are low end Android devices, and Apple have little interest in that.
For myself as a more techie person, I use Android becuase of the freedom to do what i want with my hardware. At least that's why i got into Android. Now I will continue to buy Android devices, but the major reason is I've invested in the app market, I have tens of pounds worth of apps for Android. To jump to anotehr platform now would mean having to start over with that. That's the power of these stores and markets, once you are invested changing platform is a lot more of a jump that just deciding which you like the most at the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen the price comment being made multiple times but aren't these devices pretty close to each other in terms of price after a 2 yr contract? In fact if you shop around, you can find some of these highend units for nearly nothing from online stores such as amazon
As for me, overall package is what sold me to galaxy s2. Form factor, hardware specs, overall implementation of the OS (gpu acceleration various places), etc. Version number really doesn't really bother me (2.3.3 vs 2.3.4/5/6/7) as long as there aren't any key features missing in the current revision that exists in the newer revisions.

Gusar321 said:
I'd prefer that too, but mobile hardware is pretty much completely closed, so this is not really possible in practice, except maybe on very very few models.
To answer the title question: I don't know about others, but for me it's definitely the OS. Android is the closest to Linux as I'll probably get on a phone, people are free to cook up their own ROMs (not completely free in many cases, there's closed components in every ROM, but oh well), vast customization capabilities, for getting software you're not limited to one store with draconian rules and sometimes arbitrary decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HD2 was a great example
then there are many other HTC devices that did the same
and a few Samsung devices as well
and there's the HP Touchpad
and...

For most people it's both.
They're attracted for the first time by the look and find the OS easy to use.
Despite people stating that the iphone is for people who just want to use a smartphone for the first time etc and Android is for techies and geeks to customise, if that were actually true then that would mean that there are a hell of a lot of geeks out there, which obviously isn't the case.
I would guess the majority of Android users' extent of customisation is changing the picture of their wallpaper, and that's the thing, with Android you can do that, it's easy to use, with the extra buttons it can seem more logical to new users compared with the single button on the iphone for instance.
It has the "apps and the wifis" that average users want, it looks good and you can make it look pretty much how you like.
Being able to just plug it into another computer and transfer files is a huge boon too, something a colleague was very disappointed with the iphone4 because of it's lack of ability.

There is 500+ android devices on the market globally, its the brand name and hardware specs that sell. Not the os.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

I'd rather say that that none of those sell the other: it's actually the price selling both, plus the "status symbol" factor thatbhas to do with Apple things. Androids are generally cheaper then both the iPhone and WP7 phones. This, plus the fact that most people don't seem to like WP7 tiled ui, basically because it doesn't "look like an iPhone" enough. That might sound harsh, like saying that most people are dumb, but it's not (only) that actually: people got used to icons since the day they got their first pc, no wonder they go for something that looks more familiar to them when they wanna buy a smartphone. Maybe Win8 will totally change the name of the game, but that's it for the moment (sadly enough I dare say).

I think we have to remember that 'most' people don't include the tiny fraction of the consumer market that are active on XDA. We make choices on a range of factors as we are better informed about both hardware and software. When we walk into a phone shop we want to assess the phone on build quality, size, Android version, display type, etc.
When the average punter walks into the same shop their buying choice usually boils down to no more than, 'Oh look, a shiny thing. I want that one'.

.
Thread moved to Android. Would advise you to read forum rules and post in correct section.
Failure to comply with forum rules will result in an infraction and/or ban depending on severity of rule break.

Do you review the content of my threads before moving them or do you see my name and play pin the tail on the donkey with the final location of the thread?

[Q] Nexus (pure Android) vs iOS simplicity

I know for a lot of average phone users, the argument is always, "Apple is so much easier to use!" It's understandable why people claim it's easier with Apple's focus on simplicity, unchanged UI, and locked down user environment on their OS. I've been using the latest jellybean and I'm trying to be as fair as possible giving my opinion for a non-techie/average phone user. I really think that Nexus (pure Android) is now as simplistic as iOS. Yes, there is a file system on android and other additional features, but average phone users mostly only explore home screens and other basic features. Jellybean UI only has the on-screen three navigation buttons with the three dot menu access either located at the top right of bottom right.
Apple only has the home button, but some times the back button is located in different areas of an app or to access shortcuts, you have to click the home button a certain amount of times which can not be very user friendly for people that just want to 'see' the button to access what they want. I've been using my parents' phones (HTC EVO 4G) and I agree gingerbread or other older android versions for that matter are hard to use for an average user. There's too many navigation buttons, phone's touch input is bad, plenty of needed improvements on an unsupported android version, and gingerbread is slow. I believe new comers can adapt very easily to Jellybean; everything is fast, fluid, attractive, and has become much more simplistic for setting up or accessing everyday features on the phone.
What do you guys think? Have you convinced family or friends to convert to the Nexus line of Android?

Ive been trying so hard to convert my gf from her icrap... Geez she had a droid bionic before i knew her but that had old gingerbread and skinned with blur(the worst ui for android) aosp or nexus is way to go
Sent from an Apple killing JellyBean

moparfreak426 said:
Ive been trying so hard to convert my gf from her icrap... Geez she had a droid bionic before i knew her but that had old gingerbread and skinned with blur(the worst ui for android) aosp or nexus is way to go
Sent from an Apple killing JellyBean
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah. I need to sit down with some people who own iPhones and just show them side-by-side everyday tasks on Nexus (aosp). For example, telling them to show you how to attach a photo to a text message and then showing how to do it on Android. It's virtually the same and everything is much nicer on Android.

I'll say up front that I've owned Apple products and would consider doing so again.
iOS is a flaming heap of crap when it comes to the UI. It was what the user-base needed when smartphones where new, but we have so much more functionality now that it's ridiculous not to integrate it.
iOS is that person that still thinks it's the 1980s. Really garish and outdated, but not old enough to be classic and cool - or at least make people smile at how quaint it seems. It's everyone in Bruce Springsteen's Glory Days - those people that had an awesome time in high-school and now can't think of anything else.
I understand wanting to keep things the same for "non-tech" people who don't want to learn a new system every time they get a new phone. This is why they need to integrate small changes and improvements over time and teach people how to use them by explaining in a tutorial/greeting on the phone. I feel that Google does a very good job of that.
3/4 of my parents and step-parents have Android devices - and they have all picked it up pretty quickly.
My mom has a dumbphone on which she doesn't text and probably uses less than five minutes a month and still asks me how to attach files in an e-mail. I helped her pick out, buy, and set-up a TF700. She seems to be doing really well with it - a lot of people I've spoken with feel that an Android tablet is more "tech n00b" friendly than even a traditional computer - it's simple, everything is easy-to-find (and you usually don't need to go mucking around in the file-system), and you can reach out and touch what you want to do which is more natural for many than using the mouse.
She originally was thinking of an iPad, but it honestly wasn't the best choice for her. She needed a good camera (work-related) and the iPads that were in her price-range didn't have very great ones - and having a microSD card slot means that she doesn't have to worry about her video-recording taking up too much internal space even if she forgets to delete them when she's done. And she has the processing power and RAM that what she does isn't skipping and struggling when going back and forth through frames of HD video (something she specifically mentioned being worried about).
I think she would have been fine with an iPad, but she didn't have the budget for a newer one. Android offers options, customisation, and competition. Manufacturers are willing to take chances and try new things that might fail - whereas Apple plays it safe. I give credit to Apple for being the force to really push tablets into the mainstream - I just hope that iOS can get some much-needed innovation.
I believe my friend's "tech impaired" mom got an S3 and is doing fine. Touchwiz might be more bloated than Stock, but it does a pretty good job of being simple and teaching new users how to use it without overwhelming them. I think Samsung has done a great job with the S3 and their push behind it - offering something that appeals to many users and many different needs, allowing everyone to get what they want out of it. To me, that's what Android is all about - options, choices, and finding what's best for yourself.

Pennycake said:
I'll say up front that I've owned Apple products and would consider doing so again.
iOS is a flaming heap of crap when it comes to the UI. It was what the user-base needed when smartphones where new, but we have so much more functionality now that it's ridiculous not to integrate it.
iOS is that person that still thinks it's the 1980s. Really garish and outdated, but not old enough to be classic and cool - or at least make people smile at how quaint it seems. It's everyone in Bruce Springsteen's Glory Days - those people that had an awesome time in high-school and now can't think of anything else.
I understand wanting to keep things the same for "non-tech" people who don't want to learn a new system every time they get a new phone. This is why they need to integrate small changes and improvements over time and teach people how to use them by explaining in a tutorial/greeting on the phone. I feel that Google does a very good job of that.
3/4 of my parents and step-parents have Android devices - and they have all picked it up pretty quickly.
My mom has a dumbphone on which she doesn't text and probably uses less than five minutes a month and still asks me how to attach files in an e-mail. I helped her pick out, buy, and set-up a TF700. She seems to be doing really well with it - a lot of people I've spoken with feel that an Android tablet is more "tech n00b" friendly than even a traditional computer - it's simple, everything is easy-to-find (and you usually don't need to go mucking around in the file-system), and you can reach out and touch what you want to do which is more natural for many than using the mouse.
She originally was thinking of an iPad, but it honestly wasn't the best choice for her. She needed a good camera (work-related) and the iPads that were in her price-range didn't have very great ones - and having a microSD card slot means that she doesn't have to worry about her video-recording taking up too much internal space even if she forgets to delete them when she's done. And she has the processing power and RAM that what she does isn't skipping and struggling when going back and forth through frames of HD video (something she specifically mentioned being worried about).
I think she would have been fine with an iPad, but she didn't have the budget for a newer one. Android offers options, customisation, and competition. Manufacturers are willing to take chances and try new things that might fail - whereas Apple plays it safe. I give credit to Apple for being the force to really push tablets into the mainstream - I just hope that iOS can get some much-needed innovation.
I believe my friend's "tech impaired" mom got an S3 and is doing fine. Touchwiz might be more bloated than Stock, but it does a pretty good job of being simple and teaching new users how to use it without overwhelming them. I think Samsung has done a great job with the S3 and their push behind it - offering something that appeals to many users and many different needs, allowing everyone to get what they want out of it. To me, that's what Android is all about - options, choices, and finding what's best for yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This post is excellent. Apple does integrate small changes in the software every year, with the same minor upgraded phone that, "Changes it all." Problem is, is their platform is not moving fast enough and every software upgrade is poorly integrated leaving lag for multitasking and the notification bar to name a few. Apple definitely started the revolutionizing of smartphones and tablets into the mainstream, but I feel like they are no longer as innovative or exciting to hear about. Android has many phones across their platform with different themed phones that can deter users to go and choose an iPhone, but like you said it also gives the user many options and customization.
How come you didn't just buy your mom a phone for hd photo/video and rendering? Tablets are kind of awkward to hold for users who want to do that. I know that Apple has more apps optimized for their tablet, but on a budget, they're not the best buy. The best buy right now is the Nexus 7 or 10, but no sd card slot. You think she would need more than 16-32gb and additional cloud storage? Many "tech-impaired" people are still able to use old android phones quite well - more than I would want to. If they could just see what newer android phones offer, they're so much easier to use and it should no longer be said that, "Apple is so much easier to use than Android!" It's simply not true anymore - especially for the Nexus (pure Android) devices I'm talking about.
Google does do a great job of user-interactive tutorials first setting up the phone. I hate to be completely biased; I've had Apple devices in the past and am around them nearly everyday. They don't have that excitement or new features that have been on Android for awhile now. Not to mention how locked down their hardware and software is - slowing down development. I've also heard recently that Apple's new approach for their devices and software, is what they feel is the best for their interest and not the communities interest. That right there completely turns me off of ever owning one of their devices and I'll continue to support Google as they're my favorite company.
Another argument you'll always hear is, "Well Apple just has so many more apps and they work better." Well, they been around longer than Android and recently Android announced they have around 675000 apps now which is nearly identical to the Apple store. Pretty impressive considering how much longer Apple has been out. Also, saying they work better is entirely not true. There's been many tests on apps on both platforms and apps perform better on newer versions of Android. I just bought a Nexus 4 for $300 off-contract featuring a quad-core cpu, 2gb ram, true hd ips+ lcd screen, and the latest purest version of android. Does it get better than that?

Database Info

welcome