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[Q] Are we depended on Viewsonic or Android?

New to Android. But long time user of Linux/RH/Fedora. Are there “distro's” on Android? Can users easily add/remove software with a RPM type management system? In Linux if you don't like TnT you would just uninstall it. Viewsonic g tablet seems to be ok if you manually change a few things. I'm assuming that this is generally a temporary problem due to Viewsonic being behind in their updates. But what I would like to know is there going to be any long term “distro” type leadership going forward? When the new Android Tablet OS is released will it work with most hardware (Viewsonic) like a Linux distro or are we depended on Viewsonic. If Viewsonic let us down can we divorce them and go directly to Android or someone else for automatic updates? Thinking about buying. Can wait for Flash update hopefully in December. Don't see screen as a problem, basically the same as most laptops/netbooks. Can add market manually till it become official with new OS.
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Android is not like normal distros.
Being primarily an OS aimed at mobile devices (IE phones) with limited memory and proprietary layouts and internal set-ups, all drivers can not be provided in one overall install. Confliction between drivers would be an issue as well. Also look at many phones (like the nexus one) the Firmware controlling the cellular radio also controls the camera and encoding of videos and images. There is some common ground, but one ROM will not work on all devices without tweaking for the perticular device. CyanogenMOD ROM is a good example, it works on many devices but you must install the proper version for the device you have.
Also remember that we do not have Root on these devices out of the box, 99% of the time we must find an exploit to gain full access to the device. The Nexus one and the G tablet are the only devices I know of off hand without locked down bootloaders. Cellular carriers want the devices looked down so the users can not use the device in ways that the carriers do not want. (like free tethering)
We are dependant on the manufacturer often times to release source code for the device so Devs can rip out the proper drivers and framework for the device. Often times drivers cross over between android versions making updating easier for the ROM devs.
If you want a device that you can truly tinker with, stick to devices that Google has as Developer models. The old G1 the Nexus One and the upcoming Nexus S. Maybe they will release a Dev tablet as well.
The N900 is more open in that regard as far as being like a true Linux, though the future of that branch seems uncertain. It will defiantly be more niche.

Thanks for the reply. I guess I was thinking Android was Linux lite. Not sure where I stand on a tablet now. Think I want a Linux pc in a tablet form. Fedora on a tablet would be fine for me. Like you say tablets with MeeGo (Intel/Nokia/Linux Foundation) may or may not appear any time soon. Have to wait and see what happens.

tktim said:
Thanks for the reply. I guess I was thinking Android was Linux lite. Not sure where I stand on a tablet now. Think I want a Linux pc in a tablet form. Fedora on a tablet would be fine for me. Like you say tablets with MeeGo (Intel/Nokia/Linux Foundation) may or may not appear any time soon. Have to wait and see what happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android is running on top of Linux, and given programs compiled for ARM you can install about anything, but there's no X... Framebuffer stuff could potentially work..
But no, if you're looking for a typical Linux desktop environment, this isn't the place to look. Although some of the dual boot Windows/Android tablets makes me wonder how difficult it would be to get it Linux/Android.

Thanks for the additional information.

Windows 8 will ever work on the tf101?

Because I know they made it to tablets and PC
Does it even possible?

i9apps said:
Because I know they made it to tablets and PC
Does it even possible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it isn't possible. The TF2 on the other hand should be able to handle it just fine.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium App

never say never !! They alredy showd a demo on a Tegra2 tablet

Maroon Mushroom said:
No, it isn't possible. The TF2 on the other hand should be able to handle it just fine.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you back up what you saying. Is it because you say so? Do you have any links or so to backup your comment? I thought it doesnt need much resources or much lesser as win 7. Even the older intel atom silicons will run on it and with 1 gig ram. If I am wrong please correct me
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk

Paran0idAndr0id said:
Can you back up what you saying. Is it because you say so? Do you have any links or so to backup your comment? I thought it doesnt need much resources or much lesser as win 7. Even the older intel atom silicons will run on it and with 1 gig ram. If I am wrong please correct me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Just what i am thinking

Would be cool to have some programs that haven't got a open source counter part
But then the next question would be how to have Android Ubuntu and windows 8 lol
I'd probably choose Ubuntu if couldn't have all three windows is what the desktops for after all
Sent from my GT540 RSpec using XDA App

It's not likely to happen unless Microsoft decides to offer an OEM installer of the tablet version of the OS. The current state of tablets and phones is that all of these devices come pre-installed with an OS, with no ability to change which OS is installed without hacking it and voiding the warranty as reflected in the TOS or EULA of the devices. You are sold the device as is with no support from the manufacturer for installing third party software.
The only reason we can still install Android on devices like the iPhone and HP TouchPad is because Android is open source, which allows independent developers to custom tailor the OS to new hardware. Microsoft Windows is not open source, and therefore the burden lies upon Microsoft to work with the manufacturers to develop an inventory of working drivers and bootloaders for full Windows 8 support on tablets.
If you buy a PC without Windows already installed on it, you need an OEM installer disc to install the OS. There is no such thing offered by Microsoft for Windows Phone 7, there has not been any word of a similar solution when Windows 8 hits tablets and phones, nor does there exist consumer phones and tablets that can be bought without an OS pre-installed. For now, only the desktop version of Windows 8 will be installable on third party or custom hardware.

earlyberd said:
For now, only the desktop version of Windows 8 will be installable on third party or custom hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no such think as a desktop version of Windows 8. Everything is one version - it is only that they have only released x84/64 versions for download as of now.
Nothing is stopping you having an ARM desktop PC if that's what you choose. It's just a processor - nothing to do with form factor.

my tf is going to run win8.

earlyberd said:
It's not likely to happen unless Microsoft decides to offer an OEM installer of the tablet version of the OS. The current state of tablets and phones is that all of these devices come pre-installed with an OS, with no ability to change which OS is installed without hacking it and voiding the warranty as reflected in the TOS or EULA of the devices. You are sold the device as is with no support from the manufacturer for installing third party software.
The only reason we can still install Android on devices like the iPhone and HP TouchPad is because Android is open source, which allows independent developers to custom tailor the OS to new hardware. Microsoft Windows is not open source, and therefore the burden lies upon Microsoft to work with the manufacturers to develop an inventory of working drivers and bootloaders for full Windows 8 support on tablets.
If you buy a PC without Windows already installed on it, you need an OEM installer disc to install the OS. There is no such thing offered by Microsoft for Windows Phone 7, there has not been any word of a similar solution when Windows 8 hits tablets and phones, nor does there exist consumer phones and tablets that can be bought without an OS pre-installed. For now, only the desktop version of Windows 8 will be installable on third party or custom hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These are really good points. But, since MS is already behind on installing OS on about a billion devices I think Windows 8 is a great opportunity to change their current policy and release an installable iso for ARM, Tegra 2 & 3, i5 & i7, etc. That is my opinion.
But, I would not bet on it.
In other news, I hear lipstick sales are on the rise.
LOL

For your information:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/13/...-8-developer-program-with-support-for-kal-el/

Possibly! Since Windows 8 will run on ARM devices and Tegra2 is an ARM device.

Lawliet said:
Possibly! Since Windows 8 will run on ARM devices and Tegra2 is an ARM device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From this link it says the Arm version isn't available yet because it is not finished, isn't Tegra 2 an Arm version?
http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/hands-on-windows-8-review-1025259
As expected, Microsoft is using its Build developer conference to distribute a pre-beta, developer preview version of Windows 8 (for x86 PCs only; the hardware to run the ARM version on isn't finished yet).
===================
If this becomes available for the TF then I will finally have a reason to root the device, dual booting with windows 8 will be a killer. The specs on the the TF should be fine, dual core with 1 gig ram. Moreover it is an optimized touch interface, I can't see myself running to buy a 23 inch touch panel for my desktop just to use Windows 8 as it was designed. Jeez, I will go blind having such a big monitor at arms length.

I can go out today and purchase a retail copy of Windows 7 that I can install on any Intel-based system with the required specs. That's true because the entire PC industry is built around such capabilities.
Will they release a retail copy of ARM-based Windows 8? I dunno. Do they sell embedded versions of Windows at retail? I could see them only selling ARM versions of Windows 8 to OEMs, who custom-install it on their ARM devices. Does that mean it could be made to run on something like the Transformer? I have no idea, but I trust the ingenuity of devs to get it done if it's even remotely possible.
Does that mean I'd use it, if there were no official support? Perhaps not, because these are tools for me as opposed to "just" hobbies. Not that there's anything wrong with it. But I would absolutely use it if Asus were to provide the option and support it.

Danzano said:
windows is what the desktops for after all
Sent from my GT540 RSpec using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really... Windows 8 seems touch optimized IMO. in fact i found it a bit annoying to use on my laptop, nevertheless awesome so I'm keeping Windows 8.

Who is the target market that Microsoft is aiming for with this new OS?
I just don't see traditional PC users running to the stores to upgrade their monitors with touch interface staring at a 24 inch, 1 foot from their face, nor PC users getting used to the Metro interface with no right click traditional mouse support. Let alone the costs of those touch monitors.
If their targeting tablet users I doubt they will make much headway against Apple loyalists so they will go after Android? Android is free, there are little costs associated with the manufactures in using the Android OS, if Samsung, Asus, Acer, toshiba decides to abandon Android and use Windows 8 they will be upping the price for their tablets, would customers pay a premium for an unproven OS? Windows 8 still uses much of Windows 7 core, what about the batt drain?
The more I think about it, I doubt we will get any port over to existing tablets.

The only way I see windows 8 really taking a hold in the tablet field is if it can somehow run traditional x86 windows programs on the arm based version. Otherwise it really has nothing to gain over the competition.

lordgodgeneral said:
The only way I see windows 8 really taking a hold in the tablet field is if it can somehow run traditional x86 windows programs on the arm based version. Otherwise it really has nothing to gain over the competition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is it, precisely. Microsoft has said that all Windows apps will run on the ARM version. So, imagine this: a Transformer (2? 3?) with a keyboard dock option and an active digitizer/pen, that can run both tablet-style apps and full-fledged Windows apps.
This would be the absolute best of both worlds: the convenient, instant-on, long-running "casual" tablet device mainly for consumption and light content creation, in a lightweight format that's easy to use in any situation. And that offers precise pen input (which was always outstanding on Windows Tablet PCs) for handwritten notes, diagrams, drawings, etc. Then, pop it in the dock for real work with complete network connectivity, robust file system support, full-sized apps like Office, etc.
If Microsoft gets this right, Windows 8 could be an incredibly compelling platform.

Nvidia has stated that they wish to branch the tegra platform out to desktops. This means that either they are guessing or already know that the operating system will be available in retail form at some point for ARM cpus (at least the way I see it).
as for our particular tablet that probably depends a lot on the manufactures of the hardware components for it and or Asus. The tegra2 SoC does not contain every little thing that is on a tablet. The touch screen controllers, the cameras, the proprietary ports, drive interfaces, and even some of the memory controllers are external of the SoC. The companies that make the drivers for some of these devices will need to release windows 8 ARM versions of their drivers. Now just guessing, I suspect that will happen.
I really don't see MS just releasing an embedded version of windows 8 for the arm platform. More than likely they see it as another path for desktops and laptops and will release an OEM and retail version. As for all the apps working across both ARM and x86 CPUs that will be interesting to see if it comes to be. I think the only way to pull that off is some kind of emulation right? Though app manufactures could make a x86(rather x64) version and an ARM version.

Even if it was available, I would rather have my honeycomb.
Sure Win8 has some touch friendly features built into it, but the OS wasn't built for touch only from the ground up.
We also wouldn't have things like custom ROMs to play with.
I'm running Win8 on 2 of my computers now, but outside of a desktop, I don't think it's practical anymore after Android

Possible to run W8 on Transformer TF700?

I am considering buying the Transformer TF700, but I am wondering if it is possible to root the tablet and install Windows 8 on it when W8 is available for purchase?
Regards, Sari

Unlikely, Win 8 requires an encrypted bootloader.

Installing Win8 as a 2nd OS, NO. But running linux as a second OS and Virtual machine windows on it, Yes. Just not sure how stable that would be, or how fluid. You can always wait and see as asus have announced a partnership with Microsoft for a duclboot android windows Pad...maybe, HOPEFULLY, the hardware will be close enough to our infinity for devs to port it over

Its possible. That locked down requirement is for OEMs, I doubt it'd be hardcoded into the OS since that'd be hard to detect or easy to spoof. Asus's WinRT tablets are Tegra 3 based, so depending on which variant they use it might be relatively simple to port.

Very unlikely. I couldn't spout the technicals for you, but it is a very closed down system, and MC certainly doesn't want any modding or porting in any way.

Assuming you mean Windows RT, then...well, I'm sure Microsoft is probably going to do everything they can to ensure that Windows RT doesn't run on anything other than approved devices.

Ah, that's disappointing :l Thanks for your replies!

I used to be very interested in Win 8 but now I am not sure I want it on a Tablet. I know eveybody is saying it is going to be great on tablets, but nobody really knows yet, and I have been an early adopter of other mobile OS products like Win Smartphones, that were big failures. The beauty of Android is it is more open source so its easy to create apps for it, so I am not sure Windows will ever get the kind of app libraries (Free or cheap) Android and IOS have. Looking at Microsoft's history, I am not sure they will excel in this market at this point.
Just my thoughts . .

guitar1969 said:
... Looking at Microsoft's history, I am not sure they will excel in this market at this point.
Just my thoughts . .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This ^^ -- given the fact that I've owned several Windows Mobile devices that have hung somewhere in space as far as support and development went and that MS have crashed several of their purportedly groundbreaking devices in the past (the Zune and the Kin spring to mind in particular) doesn't really inspire me with any hope that the Surface and its successors will be anything to drool about, except maybe for 'paper specs'.
For the graphically inclined and those in search for a read, a search for "Microsoft failures" comes up with, amongst others:
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Enterprise...osofts-Biggest-Failures-and-Successes-500262/
http://www.money.co.uk/misc/microsofts-biggest-flops-and-failures.htm
http://www.complex.com/tech/2009/05/a-history-of-microsofts-biggest-failures
Just for fun, those.

No way.... The largest software development company in the world has had failures? Who would ever have thought that?

almostinsane said:
No way.... The largest software development company in the world has had failures? Who would ever have thought that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not that they had failures, smart boy -- it's their touting so much 'groundbreaking' stuff that wouldn't even float by itself if you threw it in a lake of polystyrene packaging chips.
Ugh, Win8 with its crappy touchy-feely interface. I am fully convinced that desktop and laptop systems are here to stay, whether for gaming or productivity, so I do not need an interface optimized for mobile touchscreen devices on my rather immobile main piece of trusted hardware.

Jotokun said:
Its possible. That locked down requirement is for OEMs, I doubt it'd be hardcoded into the OS since that'd be hard to detect or easy to spoof. Asus's WinRT tablets are Tegra 3 based, so depending on which variant they use it might be relatively simple to port.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we should wait for any publicly available Windows RT firmware for download. It Asus releases Tablet 600 - that would be even better for us.
I recall the first Hackintoshs (based on first Mac OS X 10.4/Tiger for x86) being run on Pentium 4 and AMD platforms. It required VM and very strong BIOS modifications (as Macs had EFI, at that time unavailable for PCs). Then there were some modified kos (kernel objects, i.e. modules) that enabled it running on PCs with stock BIOS. Later a vanilla kernel was compiled that enabled the system work without problems.
Considering Windows RT port, the last step would be most likely impossible as we don't have kernel source (AFAIK the latest Widows source available is that one of Win2000), but nothing prevents us from attempting to run the Windows RT-enabled device firmware on TF700 and trying to debug failures. However, this can take a long time.
I'm more concerned about running any Linux distro in dualboot with Android %)

What about the new ASUS tablet, tegra 3, windows RT. The same hardware, but different system and screen resolution.

LEGOracer69 said:
What about the new ASUS tablet, tegra 3, windows RT. The same hardware, but different system and screen resolution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is anywhere its firmware?
The main issue would be the bootloader; the resolution in Windows is much easier to fix.
P.S. "I want NATIVE ubuntu on TF700!" - +1. I bought TF700 as a super long-lasting netbook =)

I have the Asus TF600. It has a lower screen Res and twice the ram of the TF700. WIndows RT requires activation just like the desktop version.

LEGOracer69 said:
What about the new ASUS tablet, tegra 3, windows RT. The same hardware, but different system and screen resolution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's wonderful!
When did you buy it?
Have you found the firmware?
I only found this: http://support.asus.com/download.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&m=asus vivotab rt - there is only a manual.
Windows activation has never been a probem since its appearance in XP =) The bootloader should be more tricky.

tf700t 1gb ram win8 problem

Even if someone manages to port Win8 over to the tf700, do you think they will curb the use of it by shutting it down from the windows market side?? Especially with RT you wind up at the complete mercy of Microsoft when it comes to applying any apps to the device. I'd be interested in seeing if it could be done as long as there is no hang up on the application side of the equation. Won't do me much good to have a working os with no apps to run on it.
Cheers

[Q] Why Windows Os can run on allmost all Pcs and why Android roms can not?

Noob question, i dont understand why Windows os can run on allmost all computers and why Android roms does not ?

Because windows is a computer OS and Android is a mobile Os
Sent from Arkham

I mean why Android roms for example Cynaogenmode 9 for Samsung cant go also on HTC if im not wrong, but windows can run on all computer.. i just dont understand why ??, I'm just started new flashing roms ecc. I was used to the pc that was so simple.

Tauros360 said:
I mean why Android roms for example Cynaogenmode 9 for Samsung cant go also on HTC if im not wrong, but windows can run on all computer.. i just dont understand why ??, I'm just started new flashing roms ecc. I was used to the pc that was so simple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because Windows os support x32 x64 and you can install drivers for your computer.

aleranol said:
Because Windows os support x32 x64 and you can install drivers for your computer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dinnt understand well, butt why they cant do this also on smarphones, for example on the computer you got the Bios and if somthing goes wrong with your OS you can always go to the bios ecc. But why they dont do the same on phones ?

Windows : An OS : Runs on PCs
Android : Also an OS : Runs on smart phones
Some basic common sense..
So this question is pointless

aleranol said:
Because Windows os support x32 x64 and you can install drivers for your computer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DD-Ripper said:
Windows : An OS : Runs on PCs
Android : Also an OS : Runs on smart phones
Some basic common sense..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im started new flashing roms ecc. i still dont have much experience, first i thought that the Clockworkmode ecc was a smartphone Bios but then on the internet i read about many people briking phones by flashing wrong roms ecc. when i firs was thinking that you could always recover from Cwm like on the computer Bios but it was'n like this. So i was thinking, why ? there isnt something like a bios on the android phones ? so you can always recover if something goes wrong ?

actually this is an excellent question......whats so hard abt having a mothwrboard that boots up in bios....nad then it allows u to install whatever system u want. after that u get to download drivers for ur hardware from some system driver pool....basically most phones have the closely the same hardware in our days especially when u can make use of sd cards as an external source like dvds nd cds.....the question is why r smartphones os's built in a different way and what stops them from being composed this way? isnt it more logical?

Tauros360 said:
Im started new flashing roms ecc. i still dont have much experience, first i thought that the Clockworkmode ecc was a smartphone Bios but then on the internet i read about many people briking phones by flashing wrong roms ecc. when i firs was thinking that you could always recover from Cwm like on the computer Bios but it was'n like this. So i was thinking, why ? there isnt something like a bios on the android phones ? so you can always recover if something goes wrong ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cwm=1/2bios. Windows is open for all part combination with drivers. But android or other mobile os are cant support different drivers. Companies select os and other parts and develop correct drivers for parts and os. Mobile devices have special drivers. But pcs are have open for all drivers.
This text hard for me because i m turk.

This is a fantastic question! Essentially what has happened over the years is chip makers have designed their hardware around the windows os, and they have been able to do so because the windows os is a boxed software that, for the most part, cannot be changed. The Android os on the other hand is open sourced and can be tweaked 10 ways to Sunday, which is why most of us prefer it over ios or win mobile. The downside (kind of) is that the phones and tablets are specifically designed around the os and the os around the device. So in order to upgrade the os either the manufacturer (Samsung, Motorola etc) has to develop one or one of the brilliant coders out there has to work on developing one from the source code when it is released by Google. Hope this helps.
Sent from my A500 using CM10 JB unofficial

Great question, Many answers definitely.
Android OS are built around the phones, around specific devices.
For example:
GS3 and Note 2 are built on somewhat the same,
so odds are specific roms are ported to GS3 ( Serenity 1.2)
but GS3 and HTC One X are two totally different companies with two different builds of components so you'd not have a port from a Note 2 to One X.
It's logic once you look into the components of a phone and how they're built VS how computers are built and such.
GPU, CPU, Storage, etc on a PC are all parted,where-as on a phone they're soldiered onto one main board.

garbour said:
This is a fantastic question! Essentially what has happened over the years is chip makers have designed their hardware around the windows os, and they have been able to do so because the windows os is a boxed software that, for the most part, cannot be changed. The Android os on the other hand is open sourced and can be tweaked 10 ways to Sunday, which is why most of us prefer it over ios or win mobile. The downside (kind of) is that the phones and tablets are specifically designed around the os and the os around the device. So in order to upgrade the os either the manufacturer (Samsung, Motorola etc) has to develop one or one of the brilliant coders out there has to work on developing one from the source code when it is released by Google. Hope this helps.
Sent from my A500 using CM10 JB unofficial
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now i understand, thanks i was thinking it would be possible to build phones with a Bios and basic drivers preinstalled in the motherboard, just to run android, and then from there find the driver updates ecc for its own device. That would be much easier for all of us to flash roms, kernels ecc without the risk of briking divices, and also now a days the smartphones are almost like real computers ecc. I think if you got an HTC + 1.7 Ghz x 4 you wouldn't like stop receiving updates for your stock or custom rom because its still a good piece of hardware, and also even if i would got to pay 20 $ for an Android upgrade i wouldn't mind, i think an something thing like a bios in a phone will give a piece of mind for everyone, and it would be much easier.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app

caha2639 said:
Great question, Many answers definitely.
Android OS are built around the phones, around specific devices.
For example:
GS3 and Note 2 are built on somewhat the same,
so odds are specific roms are ported to GS3 ( Serenity 1.2)
but GS3 and HTC One X are two totally different companies with two different builds of components so you'd not have a port from a Note 2 to One X.
It's logic once you look into the components of a phone and how they're built VS how computers are built and such.
GPU, CPU, Storage, etc on a PC are all parted,where-as on a phone they're soldiered onto one main board.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But for example if HTC,Samsung and all manufacturers . install on there mother board a bios + basic drivers for input output ecc. and to separate Android from it. So you could then have a one Android for all. And devs could focus mainly to the functionality and less to the compatibility. It would be fantastic :thumbup:
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app

As simple answer: Most android devices use a lot of closed source/specification hardware.
Plus locked/partially locked bootloader
In windows (and linux too) kernel there is a lot of closed blobs which work fine on pc because they were precompiled under x86 arch, but there's no use for them on our arm devices.
If we had open specifications and hardware device, we wouldn't have any trouble getting OS in there(that's what china manufacturer do)
As usual - the only issue is copyright.
Go OSS!
Sent from my Xperia Mini Pro using xda premium

Android and windows have more in common then anyone is letting on.
Wi ndows is closed source some other android is closed. Some of is is open.
Even though most of yours computers have windows dosnt mean that you can take the hard drive from one computer and expect for the Oscar to boot while in another computer. They all have drivers that are gding to be different.
Computers have biOs because of many different reasons. Computers are versatile smartphones are a relatively specialsized piece of equipment.
The question you ask has an answer but I think the same question can be asked aboout the differences between a couch and a chair. Someone just thought of a way to do somthing and it became the standard. Again computers freeway more advanced then smartphones. How many boot devices can you have on a smart phone? MAybe 2. Computers can have many hdds, many optical, many usb devices, many network boots...etc etc
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app

Tauros360 said:
Noob question, i dont understand why Windows os can run on allmost all computers and why Android roms does not ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows has been around forever.

pixelshuck said:
As simple answer: Most android devices use a lot of closed source/specification hardware.
Plus locked/partially locked bootloader
In windows (and linux too) kernel there is a lot of closed blobs which work fine on pc because they were precompiled under x86 arch, but there's no use for them on our arm devices.
If we had open specifications and hardware device, we wouldn't have any trouble getting OS in there(that's what china manufacturer do)
As usual - the only issue is copyright.
Go OSS!
Sent from my Xperia Mini Pro using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So in chinese phones its possible to do this ? For example on my computer i have tried windows, ubuntu ecc all on the same hardware. so in chinese phone its possible to boot Android or Windows 8 mobile on the same hardware ? i dont understand now, its is possible but manufactures dont do it or its a tecnical problem. ?

Tauros360 said:
So in chinese phones its possible to do this ? For example on my computer i have tried windows, ubuntu ecc all on the same hardware. so in chinese phone its possible to boot Android or Windows 8 mobile on the same hardware ? i dont understand now, its is possible but manufactures dont do it or its a tecnical problem. ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it doesn't matter. It is alot of closed source stuff in windows. Not to mention MS would C&D anyone that may even try. Even the new windows 8 32 bit pc systems have a locked bootloader so you can't change the OS
Sent from Arkham

pixelshuck said:
As simple answer: Most android devices use a lot of closed source/specification hardware.
Plus locked/partially locked bootloader
In windows (and linux too) kernel there is a lot of closed blobs which work fine on pc because they were precompiled under x86 arch, but there's no use for them on our arm devices.
If we had open specifications and hardware device, we wouldn't have any trouble getting OS in there(that's what china manufacturer do)
As usual - the only issue is copyright.
Go OSS!
Sent from my Xperia Mini Pro using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
potna said:
Android and windows have more in common then anyone is letting on.
Wi ndows is closed source some other android is closed. Some of is is open.
Even though most of yours computers have windows dosnt mean that you can take the hard drive from one computer and expect for the Oscar to boot while in another computer. They all have drivers that are gding to be different.
Computers have biOs because of many different reasons. Computers are versatile smartphones are a relatively specialsized piece of equipment.
The question you ask has an answer but I think the same question can be asked aboout the differences between a couch and a chair. Someone just thought of a way to do somthing and it became the standard. Again computers freeway more advanced then smartphones. How many boot devices can you have on a smart phone? MAybe 2. Computers can have many hdds, many optical, many usb devices, many network boots...etc etc
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Im a little confused because i dont have any experience in how software and hardware runs together even i would like to learn it , all i know is that i cant put an AMD CPU on a Intel compatible motherboard, but an AMD and intel computers can run both on windows, Ubuntu, ecc. So now i understand that almost all Smartphones have diffrent hardware, but they can not all run on a one Android version, but Android needs to be customized to the hardware. Am i wright ? Do you think if manufactures produce there hardware to fit in a one Android version, and devs focus in a one Android version, and also roms could be compatible for all devices, if im not wrong. Because what i sow now is that many devs work more on compatibility, and if it was the other way they could realy focus on the functionality of Roms ecc. I'm still new in this world and i have a lot of things to learn, so im asking you guys, because you know more than me, so i could learn somthing from you.

Biggest problem of mobile devices is lack of good boot "catcher", as in BIOS, whom would allow custom kernel load.
Despite being binary compable(not always), the way android is being started differs.
The best we are getting is unlocked BL, but never open one.
Also, you have mentioned china devices.
On some chinese smartphones fully open bootloader is present, that's why it is possible to launch ubuntu and even windows(on atom tablets).
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Millions of phones and tablets are obsolete because of sofware. Is there a way around?

Hi everyone.
Every year millions of phones and tablets are produced. Because hardware makers don't worry about updating them, those devices are often dumped. However, lots of them are very capable machines.
As I've read these forums for years, I've seen a lot of work from a lot of people trying to bring those forgotten devices to life again by making unofficial ROMs with tons of customization, new features, and great efforts like LineageOS and PostmarketOS. However, those lack the resources to bring an updated OS for the majority of those binned and obsolete phones.
If I'm not wrong, the biggest issue about replacing the original OS on those devices are the bootloaders and drivers/blobs for the large amount of different hardware configurations. There are multiple workarounds, shims, ports that solve those problems for one or other device.
It might be quite naive, but i'd like to ask a question I've been thinking about lately. AFAIK, if I have the blobs/drivers for a camera, wifi, bluetooth, GPS or other "peripheral" for a devices' original ROM running Android 4.4, I can make it work on AOSP 4.4. I know this might be crazy, but:
As long as I have the blobs for a certain chipset and display/touch, why can't we use a VM running a nano version of AOSP that matches the devices' original ROM that bridges the device IO to the main ROM?
As an example, imagine wifi. I could network bridge AOSP 9 to a VM running AOSP 4, which would then have the drivers so network would work. The same for bluetooth or camera or GPS, maybe? Is this absolutely unfeasible?
Thank you for your time!

wasserprojekt said:
Hi everyone.
Every year millions of phones and tablets are produced. Because hardware makers don't worry about updating them, those devices are often dumped. However, lots of them are very capable machines.
As I've read these forums for years, I've seen a lot of work from a lot of people trying to bring those forgotten devices to life again by making unofficial ROMs with tons of customization, new features, and great efforts like LineageOS and PostmarketOS. However, those lack the resources to bring an updated OS for the majority of those binned and obsolete phones.
If I'm not wrong, the biggest issue about replacing the original OS on those devices are the bootloaders and drivers/blobs for the large amount of different hardware configurations. There are multiple workarounds, shims, ports that solve those problems for one or other device.
It might be quite naive, but i'd like to ask a question I've been thinking about lately. AFAIK, if I have the blobs/drivers for a camera, wifi, bluetooth, GPS or other "peripheral" for a devices' original ROM running Android 4.4, I can make it work on AOSP 4.4. I know this might be crazy, but:
As long as I have the blobs for a certain chipset and display/touch, why can't we use a VM running a nano version of AOSP that matches the devices' original ROM that bridges the device IO to the main ROM?
As an example, imagine wifi. I could network bridge AOSP 9 to a VM running AOSP 4, which would then have the drivers so network would work. The same for bluetooth or camera or GPS, maybe? Is this absolutely unfeasible?
Thank you for your time!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's sort of what project treble is.
Project Treble
The Android 8.0 release includes Project Treble, a major re-architect of the Android OS framework designed to make it easier, faster, and less costly for manufacturers to update devices to a new version of Android. Treble is for all new devices launching with Android 8.0 and beyond.
forum.xda-developers.com

I was reading about it and it seems like treble is not very seccessful. I imagine Google isn't very interested on this, as they want phones to be sold every year. Anyway, I was asking about this specific method of making phones and tablets compatible with today's OS or, who knows, even linux.

wasserprojekt said:
I was reading about it and it seems like treble is not very seccessful. I imagine Google isn't very interested on this, as they want phones to be sold every year. Anyway, I was asking about this specific method of making phones and tablets compatible with today's OS or, who knows, even linux.
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Click to collapse
Yes and the only way it might work is trebel. Because treble handles lot of the problems involved with booting newer androids on older systems.
You can run linux on older Androids or even Windows XP.
How to install a Linux desktop on your Android device
Get even more from your Android device by running a desktop OS! Lots of options including Debian (no root), Ubuntu, and Kali Linux.
www.androidauthority.com
Running Windows XP on Android
No rooting or custom modifications needed, we’re going to do this with stock Android and a few free (but high-quality) apps.
centerorbit.medium.com
Also, it's not that the OS gets deprecated, it's that the applications like Google Play services which become heavier as years go by.
Degoogled-Android on my Android ICS phone worked fine till it's screen got busted. With Google Play services, it was impossible to install any app since its paltry 400MB storage was extended/

Thanks for your answers!
Running other OSes via VNC is just meant to use the devices as mere thin clients, and that was not the objective.
The Project Treble will never be as widespread as it should be, because Google is obviously not interested in making phones last longer (they want more devices to be sold). Of course I was not talking about devices 10 years old, more about 5yrs. They have specs good enough to run contemporary Android and most of non-entertainment apps.
The obstacles to being able to do this are artificial. The problem is there are no drivers and project Treble does not address this in any meaningful way. Manufacturers aren't interested in this too because they want to sell more chips. So the only way it came to my mind it could work was by running a very light VM with an older Android for which the components' drivers were available. Of course main components would still have to be compatible with newer Android, such as the SOC. But things such as wi-fi, camera... could be bridged from a VM, I believe.

Not sure, but I'd guess the low-level interface would have to be outside the VM.
That is, to be able to run the VM you'd have to have some drivers already in place. I'm also not sure everything can be virtualized. For example, desktop VMs couldn't so easily passthru PCIe or USB to VMs, at least in the past.
There's some EU push to make fixing and servicing some non-phone devices easier, and to mandate labeling phones (and other devices) with repairability scores. Maybe eventually they could mandate, under certain conditions, the logical separation of hardware and software?

Well, after a long time, for those who where curious about this thread: the project Halium is exactly what was in my mind. If I'm not wrong, it basically consists in a minimal Android rom running on a Virtual Machine which then interfaces with any Linux distro, effectively giving the phone the ability to run a (more or less) updated version of Linux kernel and, therefore, many Linux distros. https://docs.halium.org/en/latest/project/Scope.html

hkjo said:
Not sure, but I'd guess the low-level interface would have to be outside the VM.
That is, to be able to run the VM you'd have to have some drivers already in place. I'm also not sure everything can be virtualized. For example, desktop VMs couldn't so easily passthru PCIe or USB to VMs, at least in the past.
There's some EU push to make fixing and servicing some non-phone devices easier, and to mandate labeling phones (and other devices) with repairability scores. Maybe eventually they could mandate, under certain conditions, the logical separation of hardware and software?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, and I believe Halium just works on phones which are minimally supported by Linux kernel drivers (like basic SoCs). But all those other hardware parts, like GPS, Wi-Fi, Camera... can be brought to life this way, I think.
Thanks for your insight!