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With the advent of iPhone (love or hate), and Android devices the broadcast media seem to be touting this technology as new, ignoring that us faithful WinMo users have been creating, downloading and using 'apps' and generally customising our phones for years.
I never hear of new releases for WinMo, but plenty about iPhone and increasingly Android - I'm thinking Spotify client and the new actual reality stuff where data is superimposed on the camera view; but there are many others.
I know there's loads of us out there, and we tend to look after ourselves, but the mainstream appears to be shunning the WM operating system.
I'd pay for a Spotify client, a WM version of Dynolicious, and I'm quite excited about actual reality, but I'm fast thinking WM is a dead technology.
So if we refute that, and laud the benefits of winmo.. will that reaffirm your belief in this mobile o/s?
Always dangerous letting others dictate whats relevant to your world.
66mustang said:
With the advent of iPhone (love or hate), and Android devices the broadcast media seem to be touting this technology as new, ignoring that us faithful WinMo users have been creating, downloading and using 'apps' and generally customising our phones for years.
I never hear of new releases for WinMo, but plenty about iPhone and increasingly Android - I'm thinking Spotify client and the new actual reality stuff where data is superimposed on the camera view; but there are many others.
I know there's loads of us out there, and we tend to look after ourselves, but the mainstream appears to be shunning the WM operating system.
I'd pay for a Spotify client, a WM version of Dynolicious, and I'm quite excited about actual reality, but I'm fast thinking WM is a dead technology.
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Click to collapse
IMHO, the reason that you hear more regarding the other o/s's is that they are newer and have much less testing and use than winmo does, not to mention less apps as well as more more problems and issues! Each time a new version of winmo comes out, we have to deal with the same types of problems, but as it is a more developed platform, it does not take as long to work out the bugs.
A good example here is when MS created that p.o.s system known as Vista! It was JUNK! Then over time, it got a bit better, but MS finally got smart and gave up on fixing it's many issues and has now developed Win 7.
Later............
Phen0m said:
So if we refute that, and laud the benefits of winmo.. will that reaffirm your belief in this mobile o/s?
Always dangerous letting others dictate whats relevant to your world.
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Click to collapse
What a rediculous argument. I know WM is the best mobile OS, but then Betamax was the best video system.
I'm not talking about what's important for me, I'm talking about what people see as available - WM gets no mainstream media coverage, no-one goes into shops asking for it (just try going into an O2 shop or Carphone Warehouse and attempting to get an informed conversation from the sales staff about any WM device) and then we get a snowball effect where none of the 'killer' apps are being devloped for it - all efforts are being made towards the iPhone because it's sexy, WM is much better, more flexible, but ultimately nerdy (not that the general public even know it exists).
Maybe it'll remain as the business class mobile OS, which I'll be happy with as there's always the skilled people on here and similar sites to keep the software coming. Thanks guys.
I think one of the main reasons why WinMo is being left behind is because other people are intimidated by it. iPhone and Android are more user friendly with less things to worry about. Whenever I suggested a WinMo phone to my friends, they always say something along the lines of "I don't want to get stuck with a bunch of problems"
I will say, that it does take some kind of persistance and knowledge of how this OS works in order to be able to fiddle around with it. In the mean time, I guess android and iPhone are the "go-to" devices for people who want something easy to start with.
I honestly would never choose an iPhone, and I've never used an Android, so I wouldn't know how closely Android resembles WinMo.
theomni said:
I honestly would never choose an iPhone, and I've never used an Android, so I wouldn't know how closely Android resembles WinMo.
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While the iPhone 3GS is becoming what the iPhone should have been in the first place - I would never get an iPhone either for all the familiar reasons. The iPhone's main UI is an icon fest. I'd like to seem more information on the home screen. Also, the control freakery of Apple when it comes to what apps are allowed to run is unacceptable to me.
Android on the other hand is leaving WM completely behind. The HTC Hero is just amazing. It makes WinMo look very clunky indeed. You have the power, flexibilty and openness of the WM platform, with almost the polish and usability of the iPhone platform - but with multi-tasking.
What's worse is that this does not have to be the case. PointUI shows what's possible with existing WM technology but for some reason M$ hasn't gone there up to now.
I have not seen WM6.5 or WM7 yet so I can't comment on how they are addressing the issue in these new versions.
Android need a while longer to mature. But at this moment it seems like Android is the new windows mobile. Customizable, opensource, HTC, app store, its like the bastard step child of what would happen if the IPHONE and WINMO had a one night stand. That said, I don't feel like Winmo is being left behind. You only need to look at the Samsung who makes phones for everyone but the Omnia was its "THE PHONE" and it ran on windows. HTC will not abandon windows, look at the anticipation for TD2 TP2. Toshiba is getting into the fray. Nvidia will soon be throwing some love into windows (based upon the look of the Zune HD, we could be in for some fun). Lets be honest, the phone market is Winmo'd out. Every brand except Nokia is cranking out phones and its an oversaturated market. Which is why its hard for any particular brand to make a big splash unless they innovate, innovation will push this market foward. This is an exciting time to have windows.
However, i do believe the problem is this, hardware. Clearly Winmo is a huge system to carry. Simple things need to disappear..huge load times, massive lag. These things make our devices, no matter how current the software is, seem ancient. This is up to M$ to fix, and for developer (HTC) to start addressing by using proper hardware...I'm tired of having underpowered devices, I'm tired of key things missing, companies need to step up to the plate. I applaud Toshiba for loading the TG01 to the teeth with hardware, but am disappointed in them letting a 5 year old design their interface. Like it or love it....this is where we sit. I wouldn't trade it for any other OS.
I think you're right when you say that every man and his dog are knocking out winmo phones - how many X1 users are aware that behind their panels is WM? It's not a must have for the average punter, at least not like the iPhone, that is just lovely to look at, but that's where it ends for me. When their adverts brag that you can cut and paste - to me that's the measure of the device. I would have been gutted if I'd got one and found it wouldn't do the simplest of tasks - almost like making a Walkman with no headphone socket; pointless.
I've no experience of Android, so i can't comment, but it appears to be going where WM should be.
I just wish that the mainstream media were a little more informed about WM and it's benefits, not least the adaptability and flexibility and the years of experience that is available.
I'm stuck on Windows Mobile because it's the only platform with the functionality I demand.
Android shows promise, and it may even have a decent Office suite if someone's ported OpenOffice.org (to help me overcome the lack of SoftMaker Office), but I don't know if the multimedia format support will be as good as TCPMP on Windows Mobile, and I certainly don't know if it has a PIM suite worth dirt, let alone capable of standing up to the good old Pocket Informant + PocketBreeze combo (or, better yet, an Apple Newton MessagePad 2000/2100, which is actually still a better device than the new iPhones and iPod touches in some respects, especially if it's PIM and battery life).
I must admit, though, the Creative Zii Egg enticed me with its specs. It just fell flat by not having a hardware keyboard and only having a 480x320 screen when I'm used to 640x480 and want to move all the way up to 800x480. Then again, the other device I want-the Samsung Mondi-has only a microSDHC slot as opposed to a full-size SDHC slot and only 4 GB of internal storage instead of a whopping 32 GB. It also lacks multitouch, but at least the resistive digitizer permits a stylus with a fine point. Finally, it's 50 US$ more expensive than the Zii Egg.
(Also, you might notice something in common with those two devices: they are NOT phones. What happened to the non-phone Windows Mobile devices, ruggedized GETAC units aside? I mean, Apple has the iPod touch for those who want most of the iPhone experience, but don't want to be tied to AT&T and may not even care for the phone part. The Samsung Mondi was a surprising exception to that rule, though it veers close to phone territory with that WiMAX radio. Just wait 'til Clearwire gets some actual coverage, and Mondi owners are gonna Skype/Google Voice/VoIP it up...)
I believe Windows Mobile is being left behind in terms of processing speed of its applications. Sure they are releasing devices with powerful processors to cope up, but I believe the best solution is to redesign WM from within, so that even slow processors can handle humongous applications. Other than that...I don't think I have any other complaints against WM. That is why I have always been praying for more powerful devices.
Honestly, I think the truth is that WM6 is going to be dead in the near future. I expect WM7 to be a radical departure from previous versions, and I think we'll see a more powerful, more functional, more consumer-friendly ecosystem emerge. Unless, of course, it tanks.
WM6 isn't dead yet from a user standpoint and there IS new software being released, especially cool little user-made apps. For flashy commercial apps, though, I think it's largely a dead platform. Windows Mobile was developed as an OS for executives and tech geeks, not mainstream consumers. That won't change until WM7.
Lets be honest, if winmo came out properly and had all the OS functionality the we crave, this site would be severely lacking. The majority of the apps for WINMO are used to do things that the should be successfully doing in the first place. Finger friendly menus, better functionality (calendar,appointments,settings..etc), and more eye pleasing apps (SMS,contacts,taskmanager)....these are the short comings of winmo....but our biggest flaw might honestly be our biggest perk.
I like tweaking, I like to choose what I want, skin it how I want it, I can go from Vito-contacts to I contacts, to finger friendly contacts...I can play with SPB3, Winterface, Pointui....I can make my phone whatever I want it...do that with an Iphone....matterfact, I'll take my Touch HD and do the Iphone UI for you, hell give us a few months and I'll show you android as well.
It seems with Manila 2.5 coming, and Samsung's Omnia2 rolling, windows is doing just fine. If you want to see a TV commercial about it...don't blame M$, they just create the OS...blame the companies who make the phones for not advertising, but I don't believe advertising is needed because our phones sell themselves. M$ just needs to tidy up some of the UI, make it snappy make it transition, make it not hog memory, and the Hardware will make it sing. Right now we have the hardware with the software which is why the Omnia2 still lags and runs slow even though its running 800MHz. WINCE ftw.
Right now honestly, I hold my breath for the X3...it makes android look so silky
66mustang said:
What a rediculous argument. I know WM is the best mobile OS, but then Betamax was the best video system.
I'm not talking about what's important for me, I'm talking about what people see as available - WM gets no mainstream media coverage, no-one goes into shops asking for it (just try going into an O2 shop or Carphone Warehouse and attempting to get an informed conversation from the sales staff about any WM device) and then we get a snowball effect where none of the 'killer' apps are being devloped for it - all efforts are being made towards the iPhone because it's sexy, WM is much better, more flexible, but ultimately nerdy (not that the general public even know it exists).
Maybe it'll remain as the business class mobile OS, which I'll be happy with as there's always the skilled people on here and similar sites to keep the software coming. Thanks guys.
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Sorry if this gets off topic, but I find Phen0m had a valid point, and in fact, philosophically a sound argument. Even more so when you say "I'm fast thinking WM is a dead technology."
On topic, the question for me is left behind "in what areas?" I believe you are absolutely right about the press coverage, the hype etc and that the more consumer oriented, mass market kind of apps could end up not being developed for the WM platform if the market is too small. Possibly you could always speculate that there will be some differentiation in the market, where one brand/and or platform could become the premier consumer product, and other platforms become more corporate centric. This type of niche development would be natural in most markets.
On the other hand, many consumers don't care what the OS is, and so we've seen reasonable success with Samsung's Omnia and HTC's Diamond. As long as there is widespread consumer acceptance of WM phones it's likely consumer oriented apps will be developed.
In comparison to the iPhone and Android, WinMo has been around for quite a long time. As such it has to be backwardly compatable with programs written to run on WM2002. It is no use if you release a super wizzo updated OS, if all previous stuff is rendered unservicable overnight. Programs, whether they are written in Win32 or .NET, still have to work.
In some respects Microsoft has one hand tied behind its back on this one. As the iPhone and Android develop further they will also hit the same problem. CE 6.0 may allow a few major changes but that will probably be WinMo 7. 6.5 seems a bit half-baked as yet.
stephj said:
In comparison to the iPhone and Android, WinMo has been around for quite a long time. As such it has to be backwardly compatable with programs written to run on WM2002. It is no use if you release a super wizzo updated OS, if all previous stuff is rendered unservicable overnight. Programs, whether they are written in Win32 or .NET, still have to work.
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I have a feeling that WM7 might not support previous WM apps (though I assume it'll be easy to port, especially .NET stuff). I could be wrong, but I have a definite suspicion that MS actually WANTS a clean break.
typo said:
I could be wrong, but I have a definite suspicion that MS actually WANTS a clean break.
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You could be right.
WM certainly needs a clean break. Android is a breath of fresh air.
stephj said:
In comparison to the iPhone and Android, WinMo has been around for quite a long time. As such it has to be backwardly compatable with programs written to run on WM2002. It is no use if you release a super wizzo updated OS, if all previous stuff is rendered unservicable overnight. Programs, whether they are written in Win32 or .NET, still have to work.
In some respects Microsoft has one hand tied behind its back on this one. As the iPhone and Android develop further they will also hit the same problem. CE 6.0 may allow a few major changes but that will probably be WinMo 7. 6.5 seems a bit half-baked as yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree here, because a lot of developers have dumped everything prior to Windows Mobile 5 already. It puts me between a rock and a hard place when it comes to deciding which OS to run on my hx4700, at least until I can afford the Samsung Mondi.
Windows Mobile 2003 SE and earlier have no decent Web browsers (about the best you're going to get is IBM J9 + Opera Mini, and getting that running in full VGA is a hassle), no new Skype client support, no new media players, and who knows what else.
If Windows Mobile 7 gets a focus on the finger, though, then they'll definitely need a clean break. Heck, it's even stated to have multi-touch as a REQUIREMENT. I just hope it doesn't come at the expense of the stylus.
This thought has occurred to me in the last few months. WM is nothing in the public eye due to a lack of press. There is a flip side to this though.
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Luckily it can be skinned so Samsung, HTC, Toshiba, etc... can spice it up, put their own spin on it and actually brand it with their phones. Once HTC created TouchFlo and the other companies picked up on this feature, WM became much more valuable to the phone manufacturers. It allows them create a brand identity without spending the time and money on creating a new OS. They get the tried and true while looking innovative. The hardware and interfaces will need to improve for WM to retake the market again.
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I've never used Android so no comment. The iphone is all about apps and advertising. The clones love it and that is a powerful market tool, but eventually it will have to graduate to a true multitasking system to hang on. Palm, Blackberry and WM are always adjusting when forced so I expect major improvements in what we get once the world economy changes course.
What I'm thinking is that Microsoft waited a little too long to start catching up. Maybe they didn't think the iPhone was a threat...or maybe they thought that HTC and others could do things like TouchFlo3d and TouchWiz and "cover up"...but as it stands now, we've had a few years, the iPhone has had several iterations, Android is releasing its second go-around of products, the Pre is now on stage one, and the "old guys" like WinMo, BlackBerry, S60, are left holding the bag.
6.5 is too little, too late. ZuneHD's interface is AMAZING...so if Microsoft thinks to put something like it with WM7, it won't be too little, but it may still be too late.
(As far as I'm concerned, Nokia and RIM are in the same boat, and they are actually doing worse at catching up than Microsoft with the OS or HTC with software around the OS and hardware)
From a public standpoint, WinMo has suicided its mindshare. This doesn't mean WinMo is technically worthless...but rather it's not in the spotlight.
i cannot believe some of you people actually prefer WM over Webos or the IPhone's OS.
i switched from a IPhone 3G to a TMO Tp2 wednesday(8/12) when it came out. i believe everything i read on here that WM is not that bad. now i know you all either have your head so deep in the sand you have no idea what other OS's are capable of or your not willing to admit it.
Opera 9.5 is good. but the scrolling is erratic. this is probably a product of Resistive touchscreens. so it's hard to fault the OS here. but even the built in IE has nicer scrolling (to me at least)
Random slow downs, in a call no less having Touchflo slow down to the point that the person you are sending a text to gets the text, AND replies to you before the OS even confirms the message was sent is insane.
lack of software, i know WM has more applications then any other phone OS. but where do i find them all? google works. but i spend hours searching for something decent. much less free. and then i have my personal information spread out all over the place on the web. great.
don't get me wrong. i LOVE the hardware on the Tp2. the keyboard is fantastic, the screen looks amazing and the battery life rocks. but WTF is going on with the software? i've spent more time fighting with the OS to accomplish what i want in the last few days then i spent in the previous 15 months playing with an IPhone.
hopefully WM6.5 and cooked roms bring something decent to the table. because this is just a train wreck.
/rant
April 5th, 2011 by Andrew Greenfield
Today’s myth has brought up quite a stir in the community recently. The Android vs iPhone war is bringing a lot of people back to the Mac vs PC wars of the 90’s. So what’s the myth today? The ol’ “it’s one device vs a million” cover.
“Of course android has a greater market share. If I gave away a bunch of phones for free it’d sell better than the iPhone too even if they were crap. You’re comparing a phone to an OS, that’s not fair. How many android phones are beating the iPhone. Zero. Developers would rather develop for one phone than a hundred that are so severely fragmented that half the apps don’t work. Also, Google makes NOTHING on their phones. Apple makes a killing on the iPhone…” (goes on to make nerd jokes and the whole “all Android users still live with their mothers” thing)
It’s beautiful isn’t it? While yes, both of these parties have these people, the fact that the competition is so good that these people exist is great for business. While it’s easier to see competition helping in Android than iOS (only because Android is updated more frequently), both parties should be thankful for the other. Without this kind of competition our phones wouldn’t be half as good! Enough drooling over the free market…
“You’re comparing a phone to an OS, that’s not fair.”
I see this comment a lot, and honestly, I’m really confused why the hard core Apple supporters continue to use this. Yes, iOS is only on one mobile device (technically more if you count the fact that the iPhone 3G is still being sold). Yes, it is true that if you include iPods and the iPad iOS probably has a greater user base than Android. But that’s not what this war is about (at least yet…Tablet wars are definitely in the future). This war is about which company can put more phones in people’s hands. We (as in the Android community) are not comparing a phone to an OS, we’re comparing a mobile OS to another mobile OS. It’s Apple’s choice to only sell one device. It’s a great thing for their bottom line and right on par with the company’s brilliant business strategy. However, the fact that Android phones are now selling faster than iOS phones (note, iOS phones, not “the iPhone”) means that the market is shifting to Android and away from iOS….Which brings me to my next point:
“Developers would rather develop for one phone than a hundred”
This is false, and precisely why market share is important. Think about it this way: You’re selling girl scout cookies. You have the option to sell to one neighborhood that is admittedly, much more prone to buying your cookies. Or you have the option to sell on a county level. Which would you pick? Anyone with an understanding of economics would pick the latter. The larger your market, the more opportunities you have to make money. This is why developers think Android will be the best to develop for. It’s the same thing Apple did to RIM. Why would anyone choose to make an app for Blackberry when they can make it for iOS and have an audience that’s many times larger. If you look at it from a third party point of view, those companies will back the OS that has the most users. It’s exactly what happened during Mac vs PC. Only now (with Apple’s impressive growth in Mac sales) are programs being developed for both (here’s to hoping Engineering software will soon be brought to my Macbook Pro!). It’s a vicious cycle. If you fall behind in market share companies stop developing for you. If they stop developing for you, you lose customers (market share). The cycle continues and continues. It’s what happened to Apple computers in the 90’s, it’s what’s happening to Palm and Blackberry now, and it’s what happened to the PSP in its early scraps against the DS. Do I think this will happen to iOS? Absolutely not. iOS is too good and has too large of a user base to be pushed out of existence. However, it should worry the iPhone crowd that as Android continues to dominate you may have to worry about whether Andoid apps will be ported to iOS instead of the other way around.
“…so severely fragmented that half the apps don’t work”
There are two ways to answer this. First, I could make the point that most apps require 2.1 or higher, and 80% of Android users have at least 2.1. Secondly, I could bring up the notion that most of the people who REALLY care about their phone aren’t on the few that are running something under 2.x. The small share of Android users that are obsessed with their OS probably own the latest and greatest Android phone. Does my mom care that she has 2.1 on her phone? No. I don’t even think she knows what that is, let alone when she’ll be upgraded. The fact of the matter is is that the majority of the market won’t care if they have an older OS than the person sitting next to them as long as their phones work. Will older phones be useless eventually? Yeah, I can’t argue that the few people that are still running 1.5 are probably running into a lot of problems. However, the amount of people upset with their 1.5 phone aren’t even CLOSE to the people who have an iPhone 3G and are upset with how iOS 4 crippled their phone. It is important to note that not ALL iPhone 3G’s are slowed to a crawl with iOS 4, but the product was widespread enough that Apple is still offering fixes and updates to help out. 4.3 is MUCH better than 4.0, but a lot of 3G users still say that the problem is getting better, but not fixed (this only caught my attention because one of my good friends has the iPhone 3G problem and sent me this funny video to explain to me why she was praying that the iPhone 5 comes soon). I’m not pointing fingers, I’m pointing out that EVERY technology company has this problem; it’s just pointed out with Android more often because of how quickly it upgrades. Is it a “bigger problem” on Android than on iOS? Yeah. But it’s not half as bad as anti-Android enthusiast claim it to be, and whatever OS camp you reside in has the same problems.
“Also, Google makes NOTHING on their phones. Apple makes a killing on the iPhone.”
This statement is true. Apple makes a lot of money on their phone sales, Google makes next to nothing (if not nothing) on the their phone sales. However, unless your bottom line depends on Apple’s, this means nothing in this debate; but that’s for another time. The fact of the matter is is that these are just different approaches at making money. Apple’s business strategy is probably the best of any company out there right now; I can’t think of another company (except maybe Nintentdo) that is having more fun rolling around in their money. They make a lot of it. Google isn’t exactly hurting though. While Apple banks its earnings on the immediate sale, Google looks more long term (and even if you like Apple’s strategy better, you have to admit Google as a company knows what it’s doing…how often do you use Yahoo search?). They know if they put the device in your hands, you’ll buy apps, you’ll search, you’ll hit ads, you’ll use Google appliances, etc. Apple takes the “less devices, more money per” approach and Google takes the “more devices, less money per” approach. Both work in their own right. Apple has been doing it for years and they’ll continue to be immensely successful at it. They’ve never given a crap if Macs beat PCs in sales. They could be selling one Mac for every 400 PCs for all they care, as long as that one Mac is still pulling in as much money (and probably more) than the 400 PCs. Same with iOS. Apple users are so excited to have been the top dog in OS for once. They fail to realize that that’s not Apple’s business strategy. iOS will more than likely not be the most used OS in the mobile world at the end of the day, but who cares? Apple will still make a killing on the large market they still have. If you don’t believe me look at video game companies. Nintendo is the only company that makes money off selling its consoles. They make money on every DS and Wii they sell. They’ve been around for years, clearly their strategy works. Microsoft and Sony (Sony especially) take HUGE hits when they sell a console. Before costs were reduced, Sony took some $100 loss for every PS3 sold. They banked on making money once the device was in the consumers hands. They’d buy games and other services to negate that loss and eventually turn a profit. Both Sony and Microsoft are still around, so clearly their business strategy works. Just because you don’t agree with a business strategy doesn’t mean it isn’t successful. Tell either Apple or Google that they need to rethink their business strategy and they’ll walk away laughing.
Closing Thoughts
Anybody can take facts and spin them towards their preference. The original quote was taken from someone who took facts about Android/Apple and spun them towards Apple. I took the same facts and spun them towards Android. The fact of the matter is is that neither of these companies are in any danger of being phased out. Android has a lot of work to do before it truly passes iOS as the preferred OS, but at the same time iOS has a lot of catching up to do to be able to compete with the innovation of Android. This is how competition works. Now, as a consumer, sit back and reap the benefits; whichever device you prefer.
http://www.talkandroid.com/36011-debunking-the-sheep-part-3/
Awesome article, i have both the iphone and an android phone, xperia x10. im gonna post this article on my facebook page just cause this morning in my status i posted that i would use both and see which is user friendlier. Then came all the hate, but it really just comes down to preference. Ios and android are going to rule the mobile os for now and both will be succesful. The debate mostly comes from new android user and some old iphone users and how the newer version of android are actually as user friendly as an iphone. Iphone was on its own for a while but since the newer version of android, more and more people are as satisfied with the their android devices
AT LAST!Someone who speaks with reason on the matter!I don't care whether you prefer iOS or Android,I just care that you have a balanced opinion on the matter.It all comes down to personal preference.What do I care if the guy/gal next to me prefers a different OS than I do?Yeah,I'm one of the guys who use Ubuntu as their daily OS on my PC,so what?Does that make me better or worse than the guys who use Windows or Mac?No.Same with phones.
More people should read your article.From me you have a well earned thanks.
Nice article
.......or you can just remember the old saying "arguing on the internet is like special olympics, even if you win, your still retarded" , and do something better with your time ....
no offense at op , but the average fanboy is dumber than a rock and even worse with apple
Lawl no one cares for WP7? xD
I really love my Apple products, and that includes all sorts of things (even some screwdrivers, hats, pens, water bottles ...)
But my iPod touch 1g is running Android. Apple has dropped support for me with that product, and I figured I may as well do the same thing to them with it
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App
Yes... sadly enough WP7 is done for in a few ears...
The argument is APPLES and ORANGE.......... or to put more succinctly a non-sequitor
Apple market approach is and has been always has been to market the image and sell the image " only apple is unique or the best, only the best people, etc."
This is a piggy backed approach from the IPOD basis, which capitalized on online music in a mp3 format. It was and is a successful. But,... they're approach still states that they sell you WHAT THEY think is pertinent and decide on what you need, then charge you retail plus 20% for it. It is and still remains a locked and closed system. Creating a image fervor much like when xbox 1st came out, ...long lines customer fights etc.......... 2-digit mob mentality.......... they are good at this .....and it shows.
Android, on the other hand was not created to be closed system since it was based on Linux, it was open source, and the effort was to see if the public would drive development as well as create the new market that would automatically follow...... in essence a novel experiment.......... The result speaks for itself. An open more stable platform that has been embraced around the world. People need to remember that the market is not USA or Europe, but the Entire World. And that, Android has taken over and will continue until the market share of the Iphone IOS will be that of the Mac to the Windows platform. A solid following but, a minority player.
THE DANGER,---- is if Android then is turned upside down by Google, who then figures we are all addicted so now pay up or no support.......... I personally do not think this will happen, BUT... then I don't trust any corporation at all and so, I never let my guard down.
Like I said different animals vying for the same market................
^_^
thank you for your objective approach.
Hewlett Packard, the world's largest PC maker, has announced plans to spin off its PC business and scrap its recently acquired webOS smartphone and tablet business to focus on software and services.
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...business_to_focus_on_enterprise_software.html
So sad. webOS is just great, but had some horrible management.
aFo3262 said:
So sad. webOS is just great, but had some horrible management.
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I agree. The Palm curse came over to HP in the deal. But there is a chance WebOS might live on through a different company, though. At least that's what I hope. It would be sweet to see HTC pick it up.
I just came up with a theory of why HP is stopping WebOS. I believe it in part might have something to do with Apple's patent litigation of late. I don't think HP wants to get involved with it or crossways with Apple over it since WebOS wasn't making any money. I also believe officials at Apple might have contacted HP and gave them fair warning about patent litigation.
Not so sure about that. Palm has a pretty valuable patent portfolio from their early days as smartphone makers. I remember when webOS was announced(early 09 before Android took off) with pinch to zoom, bounce scrolling etc and it was thought that Apple would sue. They eventually backed off though possibly due to Palm's position.
I really think it's a management problem. The CEO of HP has expressed an interest in moving the company to a services only business, and I don't think they're willing to put in the money/effort to manufacture and market webOS. Darn shame
All in favour of Google picking it up and implementing Cards and Synergy into Android?
Yes, please!
i like webos
Such a shame.
I've never used webos but heard good things.. I am really suprised they are getting out of pc's though, seeing as they bought compaq a few years back,and they are one of the more popular brands...
well, many companies are backing out of the pc market because they are under this false notion that tablets are replacing them, and that "no one wants a pc anymore" which is total bull.
and i was looking foward to the pre3, a damn shame.
oh, the touchpad broke the record for shortest lifespan of a product previously held by the Kin.
Microsoft, a titan of the software industry, entirely unmatched. Nokia, once THE hardware giant in the mobile industry, fallen from graces due to poor software. Sounds like a romance etched in the stars for bards to write soliloquys about until time dth end, right? Well, according to the press, this is just a terrible idea.
Earlier this year, Microsoft announced an exclusive partnership with Nokia granting them more power over an already beautiful OS. Numerous jobs were lost, the bad press was everywhere, but Elop and Ballmer were smiling for the camera. Things died down, a few even began to see the bright side of what such a merger might offer, but with the release of the technical specifications of nokia's new windows phone devices, windows phone users everywhere froze. They seemed to offer nothing that the other OEMs couldn't. Some were expecting Nokia to blow us away with the use of a dual-core processor on a windows phone flagship device, my only thought, why?
Nokia is a hardware company not known for excessive hardware, but rather how they use it. While android was running sluggish on a 1 GHz snapdragon, symbian was smooth on a much lesser chipset. Nokia never was the greatest manufacturer for the power in the phone, just great execution be it their battery life which is absolutely phenomenal opposed to that of most smartphones, or their build quality, which provides a durable, polished, and attractive device. Don't even get me started on the camera's they've so often been praised for since the early days of smartphones. Nokia is a hardware company to be revered, even if not for their power.
Now, with WP7's strict hardware limitations allowing very specific chipsets in their devices, the chipset is not the issue by any means. What Microsoft needs now is a beautiful device with a great camera to take advantage of the fastest camera app out there, a great battery life to provide hours of smooth, lag-free browsing, and a polished build quality to match the polished OS.
Do I think WP7/Nokia could be a game changer? I'd like to think so, but only time will tell. For now, I'll just continue salivating over the new Nokia 800.
Lol... dude... I admire your "eff you all I will still create useless threads" attitude.
Nothing useless about this thread. Please don't continue to troll it. I'm looking for valid opinions and responses.
K here is one.... I totally agree that Nokia makes great phones, and uses the OS nicely, just wish that OS wasn't windows based. Because I hate windows. Its slow, outdated, and cumbersome and lags incessantly when executing the smallest of tasks.
And cool the camera is nice!?! Polished turd.
---------- Post added at 03:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:26 PM ----------
and to answer your question in the thread title, I will go out on a very strong and healthy limb and say no. Just look at junk devices of past like the dell venue pro
---------- Post added at 03:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:29 PM ----------
Should have called it the semi pro
---------- Post added at 03:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:30 PM ----------
or the all cons and no pros
You may call me a mad conspiracy theory believer who wears tin foil as a hat and disconnect ethernet cable and delete all the history after using Internet, but
I really believe that Elop is a trojan sent by Microsoft.
Look. N9 is doing great. MeeGo is promising and the hardware is critically acclaimed. But no - Elop says they are ditching MeeGo in favor of WP7. They put ridiculous pricetag and limit availability in other countries such as Europe and other American cities. (trollmao).
I mean the opinions of people who can discern the difference between windows phone 7 and the desktop OS windows7. The Dell Venue is an android device, the Dell Venue PRO is a windows phone 7 device and somehow I feel that prior to reading my signature you were unaware of the existence of either. You're a troll, and not even a well-educated one.
or the prohibits... because it prohibits you from having a good mobile device experience
Jaunzems said:
You may call me a mad conspiracy theory believer who wears tin foil as a hat and disconnect ethernet cable and delete all the history after using Internet, but
I really believe that Elop is a trojan sent by Microsoft.
Look. N9 is doing great. MeeGo is promising and the hardware is critically acclaimed. But no - Elop says they are ditching MeeGo in favor of WP7. They put ridiculous pricetag and limit availability in other countries in Europe and other American cities. (trollmao).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The primary issue with MeeGo is that regardless of how well it did, it could only be a second-rate android. They wanted a software that could play on it's own field and it does. Plus as someone who attempted MeeGo development I can assure you, it never would have had half of the developer support that even a budding OS like Windows Phone 7 does. The developer tools were an abomination and with the base OS code it would not have taken too much to get sluggish.
Seriously you sound like barrack Obama when you argue. No valid points just vague descriptions
z33dev33l said:
Microsoft, a titan of the software industry, entirely unmatched. Nokia, once THE hardware giant in the mobile industry, fallen from graces due to poor software. Sounds like a romance etched in the stars for bards to write soliloquys about until time dth end, right? Well, according to the press, this is just a terrible idea.
Earlier this year, Microsoft announced an exclusive partnership with Nokia granting them more power over an already beautiful OS. Numerous jobs were lost, the bad press was everywhere, but Elop and Ballmer were smiling for the camera. Things died down, a few even began to see the bright side of what such a merger might offer, but with the release of the technical specifications of nokia's new windows phone devices, windows phone users everywhere froze. They seemed to offer nothing that the other OEMs couldn't. Some were expecting Nokia to blow us away with the use of a dual-core processor on a windows phone flagship device, my only thought, why?
Nokia is a hardware company not known for excessive hardware, but rather how they use it. While android was running sluggish on a 1 GHz snapdragon, symbian was smooth on a much lesser chipset. Nokia never was the greatest manufacturer for the power in the phone, just great execution be it their battery life which is absolutely phenomenal opposed to that of most smartphones, or their build quality, which provides a durable, polished, and attractive device. Don't even get me started on the camera's they've so often been praised for since the early days of smartphones. Nokia is a hardware company to be revered, even if not for their power.
Now, with WP7's strict hardware limitations allowing very specific chipsets in their devices, the chipset is not the issue by any means. What Microsoft needs now is a beautiful device with a great camera to take advantage of the fastest camera app out there, a great battery life to provide hours of smooth, lag-free browsing, and a polished build quality to match the polished OS.
Do I think WP7/Nokia could be a game changer? I'd like to think so, but only time will tell. For now, I'll just continue salivating over the new Nokia 800.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
all of the above, makes the phones very boring
i don't see a future for Nokia, at the very least they got MS to bail them out if they do go under after this epic fail
Development in MeeGo is in Qt framework, and it means easy porting to other platforms - you can easily recompile apps to Symbian, Debian, Tizen or even Android if you like to.
I'm surprised that the board of shareholders hasn't kicked Elop out to the moon yet.
I think your happy times with WP7 has been very damaging to your critical sense, and you ar starting to sound like these ignorant iOS fanboytrolls. OK, you love your Venue Pro, it suits your needs and it makes you happyface. But you can't say that WP7 will suit everyone, or will make unicorns and magnets, solve the African lack of food and cure cancer. Your needs != needs of everyone.
I just realized why Nokia may not have gone the Android route. It's possible Nokia knew that Android was stolen and didn't want to get involved with it.
Now, about Nokia hardware, I believe the partnership of MS and Nokia was good and will bare fruit. I believe Nokia can be MS's "iPhone" producer. And I think this is what MS is doing by keeping the size down. They are building high-quality, highly polished devices that don't blow anything away but establish a reliable brand, instead. But My opinion is, Nokia needs to step it up a bit in some of the hardware. The pentile-based AMOLED they will be using with the 800 is much lower level than the top-end Retina display the iPhone 4 uses. If MS wants Nokia to be their iPhone" producing brand, the hardware needs to be higher level.
Can someone check his ip or something to see if he's Steve Baldmer?
z33dev33l said:
The primary issue with MeeGo is that regardless of how well it did, it could only be a second-rate android. They wanted a software that could play on it's own field and it does. Plus as someone who attempted MeeGo development I can assure you, it never would have had half of the developer support that even a budding OS like Windows Phone 7 does. The developer tools were an abomination and with the base OS code it would not have taken too much to get sluggish.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Meego was born because nokia didn't want to go Android like others did, but still it was a very desperate try. Personally i can't think of a Nokia powered Android device, basically because Nokia has always managed its software like a control freak (similar to Apple's approach), they don't wanna see their precious hardware messed up by third party apps and unsupported firmware. WP7 was actually the only way to go for them if you ask me. I really, really hope this will be a success, i had so much love for my old Nokia phones: i still have my N95 in a drawer and it still feels like he's the king...that bad boy was a masterpiece, i definitely want more from Nokia
Nokia didn't go the android route because then they'd be just another mid-sized fish in an ocean of OEM's rather than the big fish on something new and promising.
Jaunzems, aside from the people who feel the need to mod I most certainly can. The developer tools are infinitely better than any other OS, it does everything pretty much anyone would need for a phone, and does it faster than the rest, not to mention the seamless integration for social networking which is an oh so integral aspect of everyday life in these times.
MartyLK said:
I just realized why Nokia may not have gone the Android route. It's possible Nokia knew that Android was stolen and didn't want to get involved with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) Android isn't stolen. Does Andro has Springboard? Syncronizing with iTunes? Did iOS have Notification area before Andro? Multitasking? Cut-copy-paste?
2) No, they moved away from Android, because using Android would be, citing Anssi Vanjoki, "peeing in their pants" like Finnish boys do to keep warm. Everyone uses it because it's cheap and fast way to get into the smartphone market and Nokia thinks that if they would choose Android, they would be treated like
And, despite the fact Nokia has very good software dev team, stock android unstableness and chaotic battery management would be too tough chalenge for loyal Nokia clients to take - business customers, "sunday" users etc.
Also there is a part in their agreement with Microsoft that states they get a big bunch of money if they never ever look towards Android.
Jaunzems said:
1) Android isn't stolen. Does Andro has Springboard? Syncronizing with iTunes? Did iOS have Notification area before Andro? Multitasking? Cut-copy-paste?
2) No, they moved away from Android, because using Android would be, citing Anssi Vanjoki, "peeing in their pants" like Finnish boys do to keep warm. Everyone uses it because it's cheap and fast way to get into the smartphone market and Nokia thinks that if they would choose Android, they would be treated like
And, despite the fact Nokia has very good software dev team, stock android unstableness and chaotic battery management would be too tough chalenge for loyal Nokia clients to take - business customers, "sunday" users etc.
Also there is a part in their agreement with Microsoft that states they get a big bunch of money if they never ever look towards Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, Android...the technology that makes it up, or its foundation, is stolen...from Apple. That being the case, anything Google invents or produces with and in Android belongs to Apple. That means the notification bar that Apple is using and the notification bar that Android is using belongs to Apple.
http://www.dailytech.com/Steve+Jobs...Because+Its+a+Stolen+Product/article23077.htm
I didn't find in that article, what's exactly stolen from iOS.
Jaunzems said:
I didn't find in that article, what's exactly stolen from iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But the fact that Schmidt tried to make a deal with Apple is proof of stolen goods.
MartyLK said:
Yes, Android...the technology that makes it up, or its foundation, is stolen...from Apple. That being the case, anything Google invents or produces with and in Android belongs to Apple. That means the notification bar that Apple is using and the notification bar that Android is using belongs to Apple.
http://www.dailytech.com/Steve+Jobs...Because+Its+a+Stolen+Product/article23077.htm
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as much as I agree that android is largely stolen property you really can't use a quote from Steve Jobs as a source for such an argument.
The last vestiges of Palm have left HP, as All Things D and multiple other sources have confirmed in the last hour that the former Palm CEO and technical mastermind behind webOS has officially left HP after serving his initial commitment of 12-24 months following the acquisition by HP in 2010 after struggles in the marketplace forced Palm to seek a buyer.
Jon Rubenstein became head of Palm in 2008 following years of losses and false starts for the hardware manufacturer as it struggled to maintain marketshare in a marketplace dominated by the iPhone and facing the threat of Android. Under Rubenstein, Palm set out to compete head on against the iPhone by completely killing any association with GarnetOS and starting from scratch with the Linux-based webOS operating system. At the time of the operating system’s debut during CES 2009, it was hailed as a remarkable alternative to both Android and iOS.
Released in June of that year, the Palm Pre was backed by an exclusivity agreement with Sprint along with an equally massive marketing campaign which ultimately stumbled in terms of showcasing both the Pre and operating system, as most of the coverage was focused on the commercials themselves, which featured a rendered model of a woman that confused and frightened more people than sold the phone.
While the Pre did well initially, sales quickly dwindled to the point that Sprint was forced to endure months of slow sales before Palm was forced to seek other carrier partners in order to shore up hardware sales. Following launches on AT&T and Verizon with Wi-Fi enabled Pre variants in 2010, Palm were still struggling to make webOS successful in an increasingly crowded marketplace despite the critical acclaim of the operating system, to the point that the company was increasingly seeking to sell itself.
After months of rumors and speculation, Palm was purchased by HP in the summer of 2010 for 1.2 billion with the goals of having the resources necessary to further refine and develop the operating system, with an eye to expanding its presence beyond mobile devices, such as HP computers and printers. By 2011, the operating system and hardware was near moribund, with the only new product being the stillborn Pre 2 on Verizon Wireless since the acquisition.
The company seemed to be on an upswing in March with the announcements of the Pre 3, Veer 4G and TouchPad, which were meant to anchor the operating system with new hardware, but the announcements did little more than excite dedicated enthusiasts while leaving others indifferent.
Jon did not specify what his future plans were at the time of departure.
He'll probably jump on with one of the big tech companies.