Related
And as fast as possible !!! Does anyone have a clue when 6150 will be out ?
I wish I could wait until 9502, but it was just announced... I don't think we'll see it before long.
Check it out !
http://www.imate.com/showProducts.aspx?skinid=1
GSM Arena lists that company in their ads.
They have it for sell at a very low price (for what a device and a launch price), but I'm not sure I trust them
http://www.welectronics.com/gsm/I Mate/IMATE-ULTIMATE-6150.html
9502 is ugly compated to 6150 imho
but imate used to oem from htc and now got a new
and untested oem provider i would
wait and see how stable they were and
how their rom leaking would be
or one could never upgrade it
I am pretty convinced that all iMate Ultimates are vapourwares
You know I too think like that (vaporware).
They announced the original Ultimate serives way back and still no sign. Worst of all the more interesting of those devices have been eliminated like the 7150 (tablet pc type)
Now we see fresh announcements so let us see what Imate does this time.
Frankly though I would like to see a strong Imate because HTC also needs some stiff competition and to date they do not have a real competitor.
Vaporwares ? Do you at least have an argument for that ?
Websites already had hands on some of these devices.
I've posted a link to a website which is currently selling the 6150, albeit I can't check it.
HTC also announces its next devices long before they are really sold (who has a Sedna right now ?)
I think 6150 and 9502 have been and still are the best, if I need a tablet form factor I'll look more into UMPCs.
No really not. I do not have any concrete evidence to confirm these devices are vapoware. It is only the reputation Imate has earned itself by announcing devices not actually seen for public purchase even long after Mid 2007 has passed by as promised on their very own website. What aggravated the situation even more for Imate is the fact that everyone knows that they have lost HTC as their ODM and so everyone is suspicious as to how they will fare with a new manufacturing partner.
As far as HTC is concerned they have a pretty good track record of delivering what they promise.
Having said all this I sincerely want to see Imate emerge as a strong competitor to HTC because that goes in the interest of us, the consumers.
Regards
see review for the 6150 and 8150:
http://www.coolsmartphone.com/article743.html
Amazing stuff
'Conclusion
Both the iMate Ultimate 6150 and the iMate Ultimate 8150 are very capable handsets with lots of power on tap. The specs are excellent and both phones operate far faster than anything I've seen before. Videos are smooth, Office documents open quickly and complex Excel spreadsheets are handled without stress. The VGA output turns the device into a real mobile work-horse which lets you arrive anywhere and present a demonstration with nothing more than your iMate Ultimate and its' included VGA cable.
Although the somewhat angular lines and portly dimensions could make this a turn-off, it should be remembered that the final handsets will be built to a much higher quality and may be curvier and perhaps even a little sexier than these test units. Keep an eye out on iMate.com for further information.'
About this VGA out, can you connect it to TV?
Hmm, I think it needs VGA to RCA (red/yellow/white cable) converter cable?
Yeah I guess you need an adapter, I think only a XGA (btw!) out is provided.
The 9502 is listed with TV out.
edit: 6150 has VGA / TV Out
Nice device
Fabulous! I can't wait 'til it hits the streets here in N.Y.
The specs here: http://www.gsmarena.com/i_mate_ultimate_9502-2158.php
says it supports microSD (transflash). Does this mean it will also support the newer 8gb microSDHC cards?
Place in my area is supposed to be getting shipment of the IU8150 next week. Gonna go check it out and may pick one up to replace my Trinity. Only think it's lacking over the Trinity is size and GPS and that's not that big a deal since I find my bluetooth GPS reciever works much better anyways and I only use GPS in the car which is where I keep it.
Size doesn't look to be that different but we'll see, that's my only concern, been waiting for a VGA device with keypad for a long while, just wish it were a little smaller.
It's funny that no one can get it right. Why can't anyone release something like the 8150, just a little smaller, through in GPS and switch the T9 keybad to a SureType keypad. That would be awesome, seems like there's always one feature missing, guess it's really a matter of taste when it comes down to it.
If anything, I think Imate is going to give HTC a real run for their money. HTC has been regurgitating the same technology in different form factors for a while, will be nice to see someone finally give them some competition so we can see some improvements to the hardware.
Any chance you have same information about 6150 ? And where are you living ?
estimated time of arrival: Nov. 12, 2007
expected around 500€, really worthy... Can't wait !!
Ultimate 9502 AVAILABLE!!
Ok, I want to purchase this device. Has anyone bought from this site? Can anyone vouch for this seller??
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brand new company sealed in original boxes with all
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Cost of a unit is....................$350.00USD
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I don't think the device is out yet, and even if it was, US $350 is way too cheap
imate 9502 early review
http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2007/10/imate_9502_handson.html
IM GETTING ONE.
Selling my tytn II asap.
d
it's not out yet. 6150 is out..
/me in the process of getting one
8150 seems to be out too.
lastnikita said:
it's not out yet. 6150 is out..
/me in the process of getting one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
did you get one????
I was just reading some tech news when I stumbled upon this. It's funny, but I have a tablet that was $150 cheaper sitting on the coffee table....I had to post the article because I can't post links yet. From the New York Times:
So Far Rivals Can’t Beat iPad’s Price
By JENNA WORTHAM
The iPad 2, unveiled on Wednesday, offers several sleek improvements over its predecessor. But its most attractive feature is perhaps the same one its predecessor had: the price tag.
And what makes that feature even more compelling is that so far, Apple’s competitors in tablets cannot beat or even match it.
The iPad 2, like the original, starts at $499. Apple says that since it introduced the original last April, it has sold 15 million of the devices, generating $9.5 billion in revenue. Analysts say this is only the start of a lucrative market for tablet computers, which could soar as high as $35 billion by 2012.
The Motorola Xoom and the Samsung Galaxy Tab were introduced recently, both to generally good reviews but at higher prices. Dozens of hardware manufacturers are scrambling to bring their own variations to market this year: Hewlett-Packard with the TouchPad, HTC with the Flyer, LG with the G-Slate and BlackBerry with the PlayBook.
But prices, or even release dates, have not been announced, and industry experts say it is not yet clear whether the devices can be competitive with Apple on price.
“There have been nearly a hundred competitive tablets that have been introduced since the iPad,” said Toni Sacconaghi, an analyst at Sanford C. Bernstein. “But it seems that no one has eclipsed or even matched Apple on pricing.”
Analysts and industry experts point to a number of reasons. Primarily, they say, Apple’s deep pockets — a staggering $60 billion in cash reserves — have allowed it to form strategic partnerships with other companies to buy large supplies of components, for example, expensive flash memory. By doing this, the company probably secures a lower price from suppliers, ensuring a lower manufacturing cost.
At the same time, they say, Apple has sidestepped high licensing fees for other items it needs, like the A4 and A5 processors within the iPads. Those parts, designed in-house at Apple by a company that Apple bought, are among the costlier components needed to make a tablet computer.
Mr. Sacconaghi said Apple also could subsidize some of the cost of building iPads with the money it makes through its App Store, which generates more than a billion dollars each year. This means that Apple can take a lower profit margin on the iPad, 25 percent, than it does on, for example, the iPhone, which can yield as much as 50 percent profit.
Yet another advantage is Apple’s wide net of its own global retail shops and online stores; for customers, this means they can avoid a markup from a third party like Best Buy.
Although other companies have some of these factors in their favor, no one but Apple has all of them.
Steven P. Jobs, chief executive of Apple, who took the stage during the Apple press event Wednesday in San Francisco to announce the iPad 2, made a not-so-discreet swipe at rivals.
Is 2011, he asked, “going to be the year of the copycats?”
“Most of these tablets are not even catching up to our first iPad,” he said.
For example, like Apple, Samsung cuts costs for making its Galaxy Tab, a seven-inch tablet, because it builds many of the components itself. And like many other tablet makers, Samsung relies on the Android mobile operating system, which Google makes available free. Even so, the Galaxy can cost as much as $549 without a contract for cellular service.
“Just because a company sources internally doesn’t ensure that they get the best pricing on components,” said Rhoda Alexander, an analyst at IHS iSuppli, a research firm. “It doesn’t necessarily guarantee efficiency from a cost perspective.”
Justin Denison, vice president for strategy at Samsung, said that in the United States, the company relegates device pricing to its carrier partners, but that he was not worried that the cost of the Galaxy, which has received generally glowing reviews, might turn prospective buyers away.
He said the company was “quite happy” with early sales of the device, which it pegs at two million, adding that “consumers will decide for themselves whether the price is worth it.”
But adding to the challenge for Samsung and most other tablet makers is that they rely on third parties like Best Buy to sell the devices. Apple’s retail and online stores help eliminate this problem.
“You don’t see a markup in the same way a retailer would mark up an item, so it reduces that particular margin,” said Shane Greenstein, a professor at Northwestern University’s graduate business school.
Shelling out billions of dollars to build glossy retail stores or to make investments in chip processors is not an option for a smaller company like Motorola, which recently spun its mobile devices business into its own independent sector. Motorola’s Xoom, a tablet with a 10-inch screen, a dual processor and front- and rear-facing cameras, costs $800 in the United States without a two-year contract with a wireless carrier. That’s roughly $70 more than the equivalent 32-gigabyte iPad 2 outfitted with both Wi-Fi and 3G functions.
Alain Mutricy, a senior vice president for mobile devices at Motorola, defended the pricing of the Xoom, pointing to the tablet’s extensive memory, high-resolution display and compatibility with Verizon’s 4G LTE network, to which Xoom owners will be able to upgrade free, as justification for the price tag.
“The Xoom is priced exactly where it has to be,” he said.
Mr. Mutricy said he did not think the company would do anything differently to trim costs.
“It’s not that we are trying to lower the price and cannot,” he said. “We are pricing the Xoom based on what we are offering consumers.”
But he said that Motorola was planning to expand its line of tablets in the future that would most likely include smaller, lightweight options with a lower retail cost.
Huawei, a Chinese hardware manufacturer, has said it hopes to press into the United States market later this year with the S7 Slim, a svelte, rectangular machine running Android on a 7-inch display and a 1-gigahertz processor, for $300.
Ross Gan, the worldwide head of corporate communications at Huawei, said the company cut costs by using a modest marketing campaign.
“We didn’t set our margins based on massive advertising campaigns,” he said in a recent interview.
Sarah Rotman Epps, an analyst with Forrester Research, predicted that pricing would become increasingly important in the tablet market because as more options appeared — particularly cheaper, no-name Android-powered tablets — shoppers would want to pay less.
“Consumers expect that over time, electronics get cheaper,” she said. “They’re seeing all these other devices in the market and not necessarily distinguishing between processor speeds. There’s a huge variation in price and power but from a distance, they all look like 7-inch touch screens.”
Over time, analysts say, efficiency in production will help bring down costs for competitors.
But the market will be hypercompetitive until then, said Ms. Alexander of IHS iSuppli.
“The iPad may continue to own the market if competitors don’t get more realistic on their pricing,” she said. “Right now, it’s too high relative to what the iPad has for the product.”
Well, Apple has been full of **** alot lately. Always expect this nonsense to spew out their mouths now.
Wow! Was this Guy working for apple or just hoping to get a kickback for sucking apples dong. I thought the newyork times would have better research than that. What about the vpad7 for 300$ or the zpad / Gtab for under 400$? I could write a more comprehensive and less biased article than this joker even if I was writing it while I was drunk and angry.
I am not sure of the reason, but the gtab has really never recieved any press love. Agreed out of the box the device leaves much to be desired, and that is what tech journalist really review, but for a device that specs wise (minus the screen) can match the Xoom, you would expect atleast a little buzz.
Odd, but I'm not complaining as it has kept the price low.
Not surprising really, they were the first to open the tablet market this time round, and it has really opened this time, so it stands to reason they will be struggling with the large amount of competition that has followed them, I'm not a Apple fan, never was, but i do realize they opened the market, and business competition can get a bit underhanded
same article was on cnn...be its being used as a written ad. I just can't pay $500 and not have flash or sd/usb storage...they are dribbling out the improvements and the idiots line up... They are predicting huge lines when 2 comes out! for what? faster and thinner ...big deal.
Hopefully one day the ipad will be fast enough to run flash
P00r said:
Hopefully one day the ipad will be fast enough to run flash
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HA
Dictator Jobs would never allow it
Years ago I got in on the ground floor buying the Amiga 1000 computer. Everyone who had one or saw it were impressed. A great community of people supported each other, giving heads up on new hardware and software releases. Promoting the hell out of it.
It finally died, and was regarded as a good game machine and maybe some graphics. Most just didn't take notice.
Did I do it again buying the Gtab?
Ok so the navy exchange is being retarded. Still thinks i have the transfprmer on order but i just got a email saying its discontinued any one else here of see that. Ill post the link when i get to work im driving to it now.
Dear Exchange Patron,
This email is in regards to your order for (X672H - TRNSFRMR TABLT DK BRN EEEPAD)
that you recently placed with us. Our supplier has informed us that the item has been discontinued. A full refund will be processed for this item. Please allow 3-5 business days for credit posting. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.
If you have any questions or need further assistance, please contact customer service by phone at 1-800-527-2345 or via chat at www.shopmyexchange.com . Email replies must include your order number and contact information in order to receive a prompt response.
Respectfully,
Sheila Easter
Sr. Customer Service Tech
Marketing-Exchange Catalog /Online Store
Army & Air Force Exchange Service
Phone: 1-800-527-2345 Fax 1-214-465-2197
[email protected]
Visit our online store! www.shopmyexchange.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe because the TF101G is coming out. (3g model) (it's on their support site now)
or... tf102? Transformer 2 but most likely just a buggy system message.. But I doubt transformer 2 lol, icecream hasn't even been released on the "Nexus Prime".
hmmm i edited my OP to show what i got. i orded the 32GB 2 weeks before it came out.
the way etailers are undercutting the price, I would imagine the TF101 is past the curve in its lifecycle.
I doubt it's discontinued, the transformer sells very well. So I don't see why asus stops selling it. My guess is Exchange can't provide you with the device for some reasons, but said it's discontinued.
Newegg has it (or did two days ago) bundled with the dock for $50 off the full price. unless you're getting a better price through the exchange, just order it from the Egg.
Better not be
I just got me and my girl transformers for our birthdays and she got us the docks, and unless the 3g version is free its not for me I have enough wireless dollars going out.
Might just mean that they have discontinued carrying it especially in light of all the maneuvering (Multiple orders/ cancellations) that went on after initial release
It wouldnt make sense to discontinue such a popular product
This just worries me more about buying this, now :/. I was very interested in purchasing the Transformer but if something better is going to come out really soon then I won't bother.
It's so frustrating that I've come in at the time the current TF101 is becoming out of date. That's my own fault for not being current enough, I guess. Should the people who've wondered about buying (such as myself) hold off for a little while longer, perhaps?
There's always something better coming soon. And a Transformer is a good buy.
This doesn't mean anything, because their supplier is not necessarily Asus. Most probably some other 3rd party wholesaler and they must have discontinued selling it. That doesn't man the product is discontinued.
Just keep in mind that even if a product sells extremely well, if it's a low margin product like a tablet where a seller is only making a little profit to begin with, it doesn't take a lot of returns/swaps before it becomes an item a seller doesn't want to sell. How many posts have you seen here where people had returned a transformer 2, 3 or even 4 times to get a perfect unit? Although low margins/price don't mean that a consumer shouldn't expect a good unit, as someone who works for a consumer electronics retailer I can assure you that if any product bcomes a liability in terms of cost we stop selling it. Obviously although we pride ourselves on customer service we are ultimately in the business to make a profit, so regardless of how popular a unit is it has to pay its own way. This is especially true for a company selling on the internet, since the Walmart idea of having loss leaders doesn't work - people go to your site and buy what they need, they don't often add other higher margin items.
lathanub said:
This just worries me more about buying this, now :/. I was very interested in purchasing the Transformer but if something better is going to come out really soon then I won't bother.
It's so frustrating that I've come in at the time the current TF101 is becoming out of date. That's my own fault for not being current enough, I guess. Should the people who've wondered about buying (such as myself) hold off for a little while longer, perhaps?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There will always be something better. The Quad Core tablets are suppose to be arriving this fall I thought, so if you hold out until then that could be good. I got my Tablet back in June and am very happy with it.
Hell I am never satisfied though. I got a new Laptop (Sager) in May, Tablet (Transformer) in June, and now I want to build a new Desktop (custom build). If I do the desktop my wife is going to kill me!
I just read in a few places that you can supposedly rent an Android tablet from Rent-a-Center for $19.99/week. I know that's a total and complete rip-off if you're planning to actually rent it long enough to own, but I have an Android app that works fine in the Galaxy Tab (alleged) emulator, but crashes and burns on a real Galaxy Tab, Xoom, and other actual tablets. If I could literally rent one from them for a week or two (just long enough to figure out WTF is going wrong on the real hardware and fix it), it would be awesome. I know I could buy a cheap tablet for $150 or so on eBay, but with my luck, whatever is making the Tab and Xoom blow up would probably work fine on a $120 tablet running Froyo
The thing is... I know that Rent-a-Center is about as predatory and ghetto as you can get. Will they *really* let someone with normal credit walk in and openly rent an Android tablet for $20/week, knowing fully well that he's going to return it in a week or two? Do I at least have to pretend like I'm poor, or intend to keep it for a long time or risk having the rental refused? Do they have any "gotcha" clauses in the lease agreement that would hit me with extra fees for returning it early or anything like that? Or can you really, truly treat them like the tool rental department at Home Depot and rent an Acer or Toshiba tablet for a week or two with no strings attached?
Sorry for the late reply, but I just came across this thread.
We are soon launching Rent My Tablet which will allow you to rent a tablet of your choice for any number of days.
Rent-A-Center currently only offers the Acer Iconia tablet with a 3 or 4 week minimum rental period while our site will be more competitive in terms of pricing, tablets and rental length period.
If you have any questions feel free to PM me.
According to a source at engadget.
http://m.engadget.com/2012/08/14/microsoft-surface-199/?icid=eng_latest_art
If it's true, then I am pre-ordering one!
I am still waiting for pricing on the pro but this sounds sweet, why not get both!
Sent from my Radio Shack TRS - 80
Now if the Pro were so nicely priced...
groaner said:
I am still waiting for pricing on the pro but this sounds sweet, why not get both!
Sent from my Radio Shack TRS - 80
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ronaldheld said:
Now if the Pro were so nicely priced...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was waiting for the pro as well but how is this even remotely possible to be the price. A 10 inch tablet with decent specs . I will definitely buy at that price and if it stinks the kids will get it and its on to the pro for me.
I refuse to believe it. I'm still expecting $499 or around there and won't believe such ridiculously low prices unless they come with loads, and I mean loads, of evidence.
Yeah I sadly have to agree, especially since there aren't any other news sources corroborating the rumor. I would expect a price of at least $400 on this--although $199 would be awfully nice...
If it's $199 there needs to be some pay-off - a way to make the money back. When they did this with the Xbox they made money back from Xbox Live subs and software sales. In the case of Surface, if it costs $300 to bring each unit to market and they then go on to sell them for $199, they're gong to need to make at least $100 off each user. This won't happen from Windows Store revenue alone; Microsoft only bag a 30% cut (so on average, users would need to spend over $300 on the Store just to break even). They could be looking at a subscription model like the $99 Xbox 360? But what would they include? More SkyDrive storage? Office 365? Xbox Music? Unlike with the Xbox, there isn't any essential subscription to add on.
You forgett one thing. Market shares. How do you put a price on market share. The next model will have x amount of free sales depends of success and marketshare by surface.
It could easily be 200. Amazon did it with the Kindle and made thier money from book sales.
Microsoft will make it back in software from the surface store. That is if they get a solid backing from devs.
As was said above. Maybe I'll get this and get the pro after release.
Sent from my Radio Shack TRS - 80
groaner said:
It could easily be 200. Amazon did it with the Kindle and made thier money from book sales.
Microsoft will make it back in software from the surface store. That is if they get a solid backing from devs.
As was said above. Maybe I'll get this and get the pro after release.
Sent from my Radio Shack TRS - 80
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kindle Fire:
7" Display
1024 x 600 resolution
Last gen (even at the time it was released) 1 GHz dual-core A9 processor
512 MB RAM
8 GB storage
Micro-USB
No SD slot
No camera
Plastic
Surface RT:
10.6" Display
Likely 1080p resolution (or greater)
Full-sized USB
Micro SD slot
Built in kickstand
2 cameras
Proprietary VaporMg casing (vapor-deposited magnesium)
32 GB or 64 GB storage
Tegra 3+ likely
1-2 GB RAM
The Surface RT is not even remotely comparable to the Kindle Fire, and for that matter, even the Nexus 7, and people need to stop comparing those low-grade tablets to the RT. The only official thing we know about pricing from MS is that it is supposed to be priced similarly to comparable ARM tablets. Comparable ARM tablets are in the $499+ range, not anywhere near $200.
http://www.pc-tablet.com/4441-microsoft-surface-rt-tablet-200/
The casing and glass alone of the Surface RT is expected to cost $150. The entire BOM of the Kindle Fire was approximately $200. The BOM of the Surface RT should well exceed $300. It wouldn't just have to have a subscription model to be sold at $199, it would have to have a ridiculous subscription model to be sold at that price.
No one has even mentioned the other main red flag that pops up with this ridiculous rumored price: brand image. A $200 price tag is the absolute best thing for MS... if their main goal is to kill brand image. Yea, release hardware that is on par with $499-$699 devices and sell it for $200, that it just perfect if your goal is to cheapen brand image.
There's only 2 likely things to happen: 1) these low prices rumors are a bunch of BS (most likely), 2) an unexpectedly low price will be the actual price and it will be subsidized by a ludicrous subscription model.
The Janitor Mop said:
Kindle Fire:
7" Display
1024 x 600 resolution
Last gen (even at the time it was released) 1 GHz dual-core A9 processor
512 MB RAM
8 GB storage
Micro-USB
No SD slot
No camera
Plastic
Surface RT:
10.6" Display
Likely 1080p resolution (or greater)
Full-sized USB
Micro SD slot
Built in kickstand
2 cameras
Proprietary VaporMg casing (vapor-deposited magnesium)
32 GB or 64 GB storage
Tegra 3+ likely
1-2 GB RAM
The Surface RT is not even remotely comparable to the Kindle Fire, and for that matter, even the Nexus 7, and people need to stop comparing those low-grade tablets to the RT. The only official thing we know about pricing from MS is that it is supposed to be priced similarly to comparable ARM tablets. Comparable ARM tablets are in the $499+ range, not anywhere near $200.
http://www.pc-tablet.com/4441-microsoft-surface-rt-tablet-200/
The casing and glass alone of the Surface RT is expected to cost $150. The entire BOM of the Kindle Fire was approximately $200. The BOM of the Surface RT should well exceed $300. It wouldn't just have to have a subscription model to be sold at $199, it would have to have a ridiculous subscription model to be sold at that price.
No one has even mentioned the other main red flag that pops up with this ridiculous rumored price: brand image. A $200 price tag is the absolute best thing for MS... if their main goal is to kill brand image. Yea, release hardware that is on par with $499-$699 devices and sell it for $200, that it just perfect if your goal is to cheapen brand image.
There's only 2 likely things to happen: 1) these low prices rumors are a bunch of BS (most likely), 2) an unexpectedly low price will be the actual price and it will be subsidized by a ludicrous subscription model.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Surface RT has a resolution of 1,366 x 768.
there is something here that just doesnt make sense
why is there a huge price difference
the new intel atoms will be fanless
so i dont see how it will be that more expensive
i guess they are pushing ARM tablets/Win8 for market adoption purposes
The Janitor Mop said:
Kindle Fire:
7" Display
1024 x 600 resolution
Last gen (even at the time it was released) 1 GHz dual-core A9 processor
512 MB RAM
8 GB storage
Micro-USB
No SD slot
No camera
Plastic
Surface RT:
10.6" Display
Likely 1080p resolution (or greater)
Full-sized USB
Micro SD slot
Built in kickstand
2 cameras
Proprietary VaporMg casing (vapor-deposited magnesium)
32 GB or 64 GB storage
Tegra 3+ likely
1-2 GB RAM
The Surface RT is not even remotely comparable to the Kindle Fire, and for that matter, even the Nexus 7, and people need to stop comparing those low-grade tablets to the RT. The only official thing we know about pricing from MS is that it is supposed to be priced similarly to comparable ARM tablets. Comparable ARM tablets are in the $499+ range, not anywhere near $200.
http://www.pc-tablet.com/4441-microsoft-surface-rt-tablet-200/
The casing and glass alone of the Surface RT is expected to cost $150. The entire BOM of the Kindle Fire was approximately $200. The BOM of the Surface RT should well exceed $300. It wouldn't just have to have a subscription model to be sold at $199, it would have to have a ridiculous subscription model to be sold at that price.
No one has even mentioned the other main red flag that pops up with this ridiculous rumored price: brand image. A $200 price tag is the absolute best thing for MS... if their main goal is to kill brand image. Yea, release hardware that is on par with $499-$699 devices and sell it for $200, that it just perfect if your goal is to cheapen brand image.
There's only 2 likely things to happen: 1) these low prices rumors are a bunch of BS (most likely), 2) an unexpectedly low price will be the actual price and it will be subsidized by a ludicrous subscription model.
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It has already been announced that Intel tabs are gonna be $300 more than their RT counterparts. I'll edit with source as soon as I can.
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Dadstar said:
It has already been announced that Intel tabs are gonna be $300 more than their RT counterparts. I'll edit with source as soon as I can.
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http://m.engadget.com/2012/08/17/windows-8-rt-tablets-to-sell-for-300-less-says-lenovo/ I've got your source right here :thumbup:
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The Case for the $200 Surface RT Tablet
So we've heard about rumor. Along with the arguments. The prevailing chatter is that it's "too good to be true," that MS wouldn't be dumb enough to lose its shirt selling the RT tab for well under its cost, that it would damage its "brand image," that it would antagonize its partners, etc. etc.
All with good common sense, to be sure. We should heed the conventional wisdom of never selling below cost, and never upsetting our business partners, no?
It's also the conventional wisdom that Win RT, as version 1.0, will be buggy--against the polished, popular, and entrenched iPad. It's conventional to think that with a handful of apps, RT can't compete with iPad's established ecosystem. And it's very conventional to think that a "normally" priced Surface RT (same as iPad 2 or 3) will surely fail because of all these disadvantages. Again, conventional wisdom.
So, if following conventional wisdom, RT is doomed to a sure failure. And how much money will MS lose if RT fails? Would MS even survive if its touch initiative fails? How much money is MS' survival worth?
That's really the question to ask. Rather than worrying about a petty pittance of a loss leader, we should ask, how can MS succeed in its competition against the iPad. See the forest, not the trees.
There's one surefire way to sell tablets, no matter what the disadvantages: CHEAP. HP has proved it with the TouchPad. Amazon and Google did the same for the KF and N7. So MS will lose a few millions, or tens or hundreds of millions in a $199 Surface RT. Ask: Would MS lose more if RT fails? If MS itself fails?
How much did MS pay to Nokia to prop up Windows Phone? A few BILLION dollars? Is WP more important than RT? How much did MS invest in B&N Nook? A few HUNDRED MILLION dollars? Are ebooks more important than RT?
That's what the $199 Surface RT tablet would mean: An investment in MS' continued survival.
Now, to cover some of the arguments raised against it:
. It would damage its "brand image": As of now, Surface has no image to uphold. It's a new brand. And before you worry about "image" so much, think of the damage if Surface flops, just as all of the prior like-priced Android tabs that flopped. Should we worry about the brand image of the Zune? Or Kin?
. It would upset OEMs: And...what? They'll abandon Windows to support other platforms? Like they've ALREADY TRIED with Android, and Linux before that? Where else are they going to go? Apple?
People raised the cliched argument that you can't compete against your partners. It's bollocks. Businesses compete and cooperate with each other all the time. The term is coopetition. Look it up. (also try: frenemy). MS would not be alone in this. Google has already done this with the Nexus 7, and the Motorola acquisition.
As of now, there is no market for Windows RT. You can't have competitors if there's no market. Someone has to establish a market, and it can only be done by MS. Selling the Surface RT for $199 is one good way to do that.
This isn't to say that the $199 RT tablet will, or should happen. But it's a plausible option, and one I'm sure MS is pondering upon. Regardless of whatever failings it may have, MS still has good enough management who can see the forest, and ignore the hoi polloi worrying about a few measly trees.
e.mote said:
So we've heard about rumor. Along with the arguments. The prevailing chatter is that it's "too good to be true," that MS wouldn't be dumb enough to lose its shirt selling the RT tab for well under its cost, that it would damage its "brand image," that it would antagonize its partners, etc. etc.
All with good common sense, to be sure. We should heed the conventional wisdom of never selling below cost, and never upsetting our business partners, no?
It's also the conventional wisdom that Win RT, as version 1.0, will be buggy--against the polished, popular, and entrenched iPad. It's conventional to think that with a handful of apps, RT can't compete with iPad's established ecosystem. And it's very conventional to think that a "normally" priced Surface RT (same as iPad 2 or 3) will surely fail because of all these disadvantages. Again, conventional wisdom.
So, if following conventional wisdom, RT is doomed to a sure failure. And how much money will MS lose if RT fails? Would MS even survive if its touch initiative fails? How much money is MS' survival worth?
That's really the question to ask. Rather than worrying about a petty pittance of a loss leader, we should ask, how can MS succeed in its competition against the iPad. See the forest, not the trees.
There's one surefire way to sell tablets, no matter what the disadvantages: CHEAP. HP has proved it with the TouchPad. Amazon and Google did the same for the KF and N7. So MS will lose a few millions, or tens or hundreds of millions in a $199 Surface RT. Ask: Would MS lose more if RT fails? If MS itself fails?
How much did MS pay to Nokia to prop up Windows Phone? A few BILLION dollars? Is WP more important than RT? How much did MS invest in B&N Nook? A few HUNDRED MILLION dollars? Are ebooks more important than RT?
That's what the $199 Surface RT tablet would mean: An investment in MS' continued survival.
Now, to cover some of the arguments raised against it:
. It would damage its "brand image": As of now, Surface has no image to uphold. It's a new brand. And before you worry about "image" so much, think of the damage if Surface flops, just as all of the prior like-priced Android tabs that flopped. Should we worry about the brand image of the Zune? Or Kin?
. It would upset OEMs: And...what? They'll abandon Windows to support other platforms? Like they've ALREADY TRIED with Android, and Linux before that? Where else are they going to go? Apple?
People raised the cliched argument that you can't compete against your partners. It's bollocks. Businesses compete and cooperate with each other all the time. The term is coopetition. Look it up. (also try: frenemy). MS would not be alone in this. Google has already done this with the Nexus 7, and the Motorola acquisition.
As of now, there is no market for Windows RT. You can't have competitors if there's no market. Someone has to establish a market, and it can only be done by MS. Selling the Surface RT for $199 is one good way to do that.
This isn't to say that the $199 RT tablet will, or should happen. But it's a plausible option, and one I'm sure MS is pondering upon. Regardless of whatever failings it may have, MS still has good enough management who can see the forest, and ignore the hoi polloi worrying about a few measly trees.
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Click to collapse
markets:
laptop
ultra tiny pc
some phone (since wp7 didn't happen)
ipad ( like it or not, ownage)
some android 10" tab
some Android 7" tab
ohhhhhhh loooook 4.5" phone/tab!
wayyyyy up there, ultra tiny laptops happened. they run full windows ( or Linux, or Mac os, or bad) and cost $239.
where is the market for a ultra ultra tiny, non-full-os, fragile, too big to pocket ... machine?
the pro/dev device makes more sense, but surface at $5-700 , the ipad is a 800 lb gorilla in the room again, and much cheaper.
edited, guessing surface price lower
emote: very good, convincing points. I am now convinced that MS just might do this. $199 cheap? I'm still very hesitant, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised anymore if they released it at around $300 and not the $500 I have been expecting.
I still think $199 cheapens brand image. You have to understand what I mean: of course it isn't coming in and making an already established, and presumably high quality, brand cheaper. Yes, it is the first product of its brand for MS. What I mean is that it is coming in and instantly making that brand cheap. So, instead of cheapening an already established thing, it is the establishing thing and it is establishing the image of that brand as cheap out of the gates. Most $199 tablets are small. The Surface RT will be compared to the iPad because it is iPad sized. When people look at them side by side, and see the Surface is less than half the cost, they will absolutely you-cannot-contradict-this think it must be inferior to the iPad.
Basically: Apple has been building BMWs for a while. MS is just now entering the car game, and their first model is an Audi, on par with Apple's BMW. Except MS priced it like a Honda, and so everyone is confused and thinks Apple's BMW must be way better.
>I still think $199 cheapens brand image...it is the establishing thing and it is establishing the image of that brand as cheap out of the gates
Do you think Google's Nexus brand is cheapened because of the $199 N7? How about any subsequent tablet from HP because of the $99 TouchPad? Do you expect every HP tablet to be $99 from now on?
The first priority is the product's success, and whatever else comes after. If Surface RT flops, it won't matter what its brand image is.
For MS, even the product (Surface) isn't as important as the market. If Surface needs to be the sacrificial lamb so MS can establish Win RT, then it will happen. An easy fix to that is for Surface to become a "cheap" brand, and to establish a new "premium" brand. Remember, there is yet no equity invested in the Surface name.
>When people look at them side by side, and see the Surface is less than half the cost, they will absolutely you-cannot-contradict-this think it must be inferior to the iPad.
Then using your example, a Honda must be inferior to a BMW, since it costs less?
Obviously, that's not true in every aspect, or even in many aspects. The Honda is better in some things--reliability, practicality, fuel efficiency, bang/buck, etc. Each caters to a different demographic. Similarly, Nexus 7 can do some things better than iPad, and some worse. It's not as popular, but "inferior" is not in the perception mix. Ditto for a $199 RT if that happens.
How MS prices the RT depends on what it wants to do with the Surface line. If Surface was intended as a tech template for OEMs to follow rather than to grab market share, then price will be ~$500, and sales will be lackluster. But if the rumor is true of 3 million Surface tablets being made, this isn't the intent.
By tying the tablet platform to its Windows cash cow, MS was hoping to leverage the Windows userbase to push its tablet effort. But many indications are that Win8 itself will have a mixed reception, so it has no coattail to ride. There is precious little else MS can use to establish WinRT as a platform, other than going for low price. Google did the same for Nexus 7, and it's working so far.
I agree that a $199 RT isn't cast in stone, but it looks to be under consideration, rather than being another net rumor. Acer's CEO didn't just pull the $199 price point out of a hat in his rant against Surface. He must have been privy to the memo.
car analogies.... great!
toyota, honda introduce hybrids. not really electric, not really full size... ape **** demand, they sell and run forever.
skip forward TEN PLUS YEARS
Chevrolet: HEY LOOK WE MADE A HYBRID TOO!!! (fanfare, loud lies about paying back the loan, loud promises about being a new, swift corporation)
no one cares.
the price point matters about as much as if its painted brown or beige. getting to market while there still is indecision is the key. there is very little indecision now, today, when people look for a tablet.
ipad ... owns
someandroidthing..... 2nd place
surface ..... customer Google's, sees its really a $40000 table, not a tablet... back to I pad vs android.
next