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The galaxyS has a 1g hummingbird CPU which should be fairly future proof for a couple of years, unless something is done about battery life I can't CPU speeds rocketing up, I'd love to see how they will handle dual core CPU's in smart phones.... That being said I could be proven wrong...
Question I have is why do we see so many phones stuck on older versions of android, what is it that prevents them from being ported to a newer version of android? hardware? bootloader? No one to produce the rom?
Its rumoured 2.2 would be the last update for GalaxyS which I find ludicrous to say the phones not even officially released yet in most of the world. What could possibly stop 3.0 from reaching phones released this year? If google are pushing the hardware requirements of these latest OS updates to a point a 1ghz CPU isn't enough then it’s a very dangerous move imo
Maybe I’m missing something here or phone manufactures are pure lazy and don’t give a **** about the end user...
Hardware-wise, you'd be fine for a bit. The reason mfrs don't push updated versions of Android to their phones is because they generally skin them - so some Motos have Blur, HTCs have Sense, etc. This takes time to port across, plus there's the standard testing of any new software version, drivers etc. Samsung, it's sad to say, are particularly bad for this.
The Galaxy S is gorgeous, and I'm trying to convince myself that the possible lack of updates is worth it. HTCs just get such better support from the community, though . . .
thats my worry too..... i want to get it but then im terrified of being left behind in OS updates. it would annoy me so much if it happened especially coming from an Iphone 3g which until recently has been fully supported and updated for the last 2 years........
I'd take a Galaxy S over my Moto Cliq that is stuck on 1.5 for the foreseeable future. HTC seems to be the only manufacturer that gives a *&(@ about updating.
Fuzi0719 said:
I'd take a Galaxy S over my Moto Cliq that is stuck on 1.5 for the foreseeable future. HTC seems to be the only manufacturer that gives a *&(@ about updating.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not to derail, but is motorola very good with updates?
Here is the inevitable question, given yesterday's event. I have been researching and it seems the tech requirements for ICS are the same as those for Gingerbread. Of course, given how Gingerbread has been very heavy on the Milestone, I know that even a moderate increase in tech requirements would be too much on the Milestone. But does it have a chance in any way? And can we backport some of the features (e.g. new Copy-Paste) to CM6 and CM7?
bandroid842 said:
Here is the inevitable question, given yesterday's event. I have been researching and it seems the tech requirements for ICS are the same as those for Gingerbread. Of course, given how Gingerbread has been very heavy on the Milestone, I know that even a moderate increase in tech requirements would be too much on the Milestone. But does it have a chance in any way? And can we backport some of the features (e.g. new Copy-Paste) to CM6 and CM7?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was waiting for someone to ask this ahah My guess is that when Cyanogen comes out with their version of ICS, Kabaldan or some other developer will try and port it to the milestone. Only time will tell...
Until the ICS source is published and reviewed, there can be no valid answers to such questions.
As Kabaldan noted, there's no way to know for sure until the sources are released, and that should take a little while still.
My guess: No, I don't think ICS is going to happen for the Milestone, at least not in an useful way. Along the history of Android releases, no matter what Google said about how a new release compares against an older release in resource usage, every new Android release always required a little bit more RAM than the release before: Froyo required more RAM than Eclair, but as long as you don't stuff your phone full with apps and you stick to a relatively "light" usage pattern, the Milestone still handled it pretty well. Then Gingerbread again required more RAM than Froyo, but now with Gingerbread we're really on the edge of what Milestone can handle - if you don't stick with a light usage pattern, you are sure to run into apps you need open being closed because of low RAM. I just can't see the situation improving, or even at best staying the same, with ICS.
I think a phone with at least 512Mb (like, say, SGS1 and many others released in the past year and a half) is most likely to be able to handle ICS with little downsides, but the Milestone obviously isn't in that league. The Milestone is a 2+ year old phone anyway.
cronot said:
As Kabaldan noted, there's no way to know for sure until the sources are released, and that should take a little while still.
My guess: No, I don't think ICS is going to happen for the Milestone, at least not in an useful way. Along the history of Android releases, no matter what Google said about how a new release compares against an older release in resource usage, every new Android release always required a little bit more RAM than the release before: Froyo required more RAM than Eclair, but as long as you don't stuff your phone full with apps and you stick to a relatively "light" usage pattern, the Milestone still handled it pretty well. Then Gingerbread again required more RAM than Froyo, but now with Gingerbread we're really on the edge of what Milestone can handle - if you don't stick with a light usage pattern, you are sure to run into apps you need open being closed because of low RAM. I just can't see the situation improving, or even at best staying the same, with ICS.
I think a phone with at least 512Mb (like, say, SGS1 and many others released in the past year and a half) is most likely to be able to handle ICS with little downsides, but the Milestone obviously isn't in that league. The Milestone is a 2+ year old phone anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You never know. After all the point of Ics is to get all devices in the same version.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using XDA App
You never know. After all the point of Ics is to get all devices in the same version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Emphasis mine. I think you're taking that statement, that you've probably heard from Google and other sources, out of context.
ICS is supposed to unify the codebase for the Android OS, yes - for different form factors, i.e. Tablets and Smartphones. And that's it. It's not a silver bullet that's supposed to cover ALL Android devices.
I see the SDK on RC14, give a try of course i'm pessimist too.. already with Ginger everytime i open an heavy app the home collapse for free usefull ram.
i think we should honestly start thinking of upgrading our phones... this phone is just far too ancient. It's like asking for iOS 4 or iOS5 on the iPhone 2G... Impossible...
dmo580 said:
i think we should honestly start thinking of upgrading our phones... this phone is just far too ancient. It's like asking for iOS 4 or iOS5 on the iPhone 2G... Impossible...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some of us have contracts with our phone companies that don't end for another or two.
Physical limit sucks >.>, but agree with dmo... it's pointless trying to use Win 7 on P4 hardware single channel xD. About that RAZR is extremely sexy and got my attention... and i read an article where they point out the UK version could have bootloader unlocked , (and ICS update on mid 2012, but i rely on xda dev, like always and not direct support from M).
I'm sorry, but I gave up on my Milestone and bought a Galaxy S2.
For too long I've seen that the only major development this phone receives is through (very appreciated) kabaldan's work, and that's not acceptable.
Motorola abandoned this phone way too soon, yet at the same time refused to unlock it so that the skilled programmers stuck with this piece of hardware would be able to do something about it.
Not going to choose Motorola again anytime soon until they start giving their users the services appropriate to a smartphone (be it long term support or unlocked bootloaders).
dt0 said:
I'm sorry, but I gave up on my Milestone and bought a Galaxy S2.
For too long I've seen that the only major development this phone receives is through (very appreciated) kabaldan's work, and that's not acceptable.
Motorola abandoned this phone way too soon, yet at the same time refused to unlock it so that the skilled programmers stuck with this piece of hardware would be able to do something about it.
Not going to choose Motorola again anytime soon until they start giving their users the services appropriate to a smartphone (be it long term support or unlocked bootloaders).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are various other people who greatly contribute to the milestone modding community, and I'm sorry to hear that you don't understand that. Yes, while I too believe kabaldan has made some noteworthy and astounding contributions to the milestone modding community, he is not the only one and you should not just neglect the efforts of other developers.
Although I have to agree with you in the case that the motorola milestone's time to shine is over. While we can overclock the processor and apply various to achieve better performance, with the lack of ram and the inability to play most memory-intensive apps I do believe it is time for an upgrade. Finally, if I misinterpreted your comment, please let me know and I will try to change my comment accordingly.
Now about the Galaxy Nexus:
Although the Galaxy Nexus compared to a lot of the other competition seems to have underwhelming specs, it is still the first ice cream sandwich phone which Google and Samsung sat together which means that the hardware will be optimized for the software and also that the developer base would probably be extremely huge because of the number of consumers purchasing this product. ( I mean look at the Nexus One!) The only problem that I see with the Galaxy Nexus is that the GPU is 4 years outdated so it might not be the best phone to get but then again how many games do you really play on your phone? (I think the GPU is identical to the GPU in the Nexus S but apparently the processor is more-so tailored for multitasking and better performance, but not gaming)
Edit: Sorry for the partially irrelevant post :S
My milestone can barely run gingerbread, I have to use the less memory consuming apps for a semi-smooth phone, I don't think milestone can run ICS and if it does, it will be really slow
Android 4.0 Platform:
http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-4.0.html
Can we port a lite version of ICS to Milestone by remove some unnecessary features : NFC , Android Beam , Face Unlock ( because MS don't have font-facing camera) ?
M4zinkaiser said:
[...] it's pointless trying to use Win 7 on P4 hardware single channel xD.
[...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is
But it runs Win 8 smoothly
That said, I think the modders will manage to make ICS usable on Milestone by removing some features and/or seperating vital processes from non-vital ones (like the Google Maps location service in latest CM7)
Even Windows 7 is smoother than Vista, and 8 seems to be lighter too.
Mi friends report me that iOS 5 runs better than 4 even on 3GS.
So we could have a good chance to port ICS with better results than GB on our MS.. finger crossed!!!
UPDATE! Romain Guy, renowned Android OS developer, just revealed that starting with 4.0, Ice Cream Sandwich, Android brings hardware accelerated 2D rendering to phones! Not just for tablets anymore This is great news for the Android community, and will only led to a smoother, and more efficient user experience. We won another one!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.androidannoyances.com/post/10
Maybe rip some needless features of ICS. It's just the hardware UI Acceleration that is important
milestone was a great phone, no doubt. the main problem is that the motorola customer service is terrible all around the world. in fact where im live hungary, the last motorola reseller closed permanently and the last customer service company moving out from the country, so the only option to take any motorola product to a bad repair service what is sending motorola phones to the closest service depo, like czeh republic. sometimes this is taking for 1-2 months.
this is happening many other country too, the only hope that google open their eyes and realise that not abandon the motorola brand (what is part of the big google branch now) and do something or else the motorola sooner or later going into the garbage.
i sold out my motorola, however i really like it, especially the hw keyboard, but i cant run many apps in recent days what i needed for my job, and my company buy for me a new phone. first i just retired my moto, packed to the original box nicely, but one of my friend told me that buy my milestone. in time i realise my new phone is so much faster than the moto was, that im not missed the greatest thing of the milestone: the hw keyboard.
so i decided to sell my milestone to my friend..
once again without Kabaldan this phone was a useless metal piece long time ago, so id like to thank you for all the hard work!
im with cm7 in my new phone, so cm7 always in my phone hearth
milestone is my first android phone ever and i never forget this!
Huge time for us droid users on Verizon Wireless, some heavy hitting phones come out and i wanted to get some feedback from the developer community on the NEXUS side of things because initially this was the one device i really wanted.
Are you all still sold on the NEXUS even though its hardware specs are considerably less than what is offered by the:
HTC Rezound
(Dual 1.5 Ghz / True HD display, Pure Beats Audio SDcard/HDMI)
Motorolla RAZR
(Dual 1.2 Super AMOLED Advanced display and high quality materials in build/HDMI/SDCard -granted no removable battery )?
Do you think it would be better to go with the hardware and root/flash to Ice cream Sandwich later on?
I can confirm that Verizon is going to load this phone up with all sorts of preinstalled junk but obviously this is removable by anyone who roots their device, but how easy will it be to root something on 4.0 given that there isnt much out there for it?
I personally was dying for a Droid with Icecream Sandwich on it but im afraid to jump on board with Samsung again because of the known issues with the antennae in the phone (dropping service, poor 4G to 3G transition, all of which are confirmed issues with have haunted Verizon's 4G Samsung offerings)
-sigh- Yet another thread about comparing specs...
The GNexus has already been rooted. And it'll run pure Android over an unlock(ed/able) bootloader, so there would be little standing in the way of rooting it otherwise.
I've been waiting on the GN for about a year, ever since I started getting tired of my OG's sluggish performance.
_hyperdude said:
-sigh- Yet another thread about comparing specs...
The GNexus has already been rooted. And it'll run pure Android over an unlock(ed/able) bootloader, so there would be little standing in the way of rooting it otherwise.
I've been waiting on the GN for about a year, ever since I started getting tired of my OG's sluggish performance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it kind of surprises me there isnt a clear winner among these devices on this site. Why one over the other when your going to root and rom it anyways so why look at anything but hardware? If this isnt the case then maybe i need to be educated.
Also didnt mean it as really a "specs" comparison. I know the other ones are better, I just wanted to hear if you all think 4.0 is that much better that its worth going for this device or if there was some magic bullet in the samsung that just made it a clear victor
Droid RAZR: MotoBlur
HTC Rezound: HTC Sense 3.5
Galaxy Nexus: Stock Android 4.0
Galaxy Nexus wins. Game over. Thread closed.
PsychoSimatic said:
Well it kind of surprises me there isnt a clear winner among these devices on this site. Why one over the other when your going to root and rom it anyways so why look at anything but hardware? If this isnt the case then maybe i need to be educated.
Also didnt mean it as really a "specs" comparison. I know the other ones are better, I just wanted to hear if you all think 4.0 is that much better that its worth going for this device or if there was some magic bullet in the samsung that just made it a clear victor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Listen. This phone was the phone Google used to DEVELOP ICS. Which means by nature its going to have the best time running ICS. That's why I'm getting it, and I'm sure why some others are attracted to the Nexus Line
I am my mom's "little elitest"
Deal with it!
PsychoSimatic said:
Well it kind of surprises me there isnt a clear winner among these devices on this site. Why one over the other when your going to root and rom it anyways so why look at anything but hardware? If this isnt the case then maybe i need to be educated.
Also didnt mean it as really a "specs" comparison. I know the other ones are better, I just wanted to hear if you all think 4.0 is that much better that its worth going for this device or if there was some magic bullet in the samsung that just made it a clear victor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also have to consider bootloaders and xda development.... since you are posting here, you must be interested in enhancement of your phone.
When you add those to the overall specs, and that the nexus is a world phone... (added development on xda) its hard not to chose the GN, IMHO.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium
PsychoSimatic said:
HTC Rezound
(Dual 1.5 Ghz / True HD display, Pure Beats Audio SDcard/HDMI)
Motorolla RAZR
(Dual 1.2 Super AMOLED Advanced display and high quality materials in build/HDMI/SDCard -granted no removable battery )?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just some thoughts.
The Rezound's 1.5GHz qualcomm chip is probably slower than the 1.2GHz OMAP4460. The Nexus is also a 'true' 720p display (sub-pixel arrangement doesn't change that,) the Beats label was laughed out of the audiophile world and into smartphones - where it became an equalizer that accentuates bass. In addition, the Rezound uses MHL for video-out (HDMI,) just like the Nexus
The RAZR is much more comparable to the Nexus. The Nexus has a far superior screen, but you lose out on the microSD slot and the build materials (and ultra-thinness.) The dedicated HDMI port is a boon though, since MHL displays are nonexistant at this point. Funnily enough, my main con with the RAZR is the supercolossal side bezel.
For me it's between the Nexus and the RAZR. If there turns out to be no 32GB GSM Nexus, or if I can't get it here, I'll take a hard look at the RAZR. And probably end up waiting for a Tegra 3 phone instead.
You make it sound like there's a phone that doesn't have bad 3G to 4G transitions on Verizon. They all have issues as far as I know. Whether the nexus has decent reception or not we won't know until later...but no reason to assume any worse.
S
PsychoSimatic said:
Huge time for us droid users on Verizon Wireless, some heavy hitting phones come out and i wanted to get some feedback from the developer community on the NEXUS side of things because initially this was the one device i really wanted.
Are you all still sold on the NEXUS even though its hardware specs are considerably less than what is offered by the:
HTC Rezound
(Dual 1.5 Ghz / True HD display, Pure Beats Audio SDcard/HDMI)
Motorolla RAZR
(Dual 1.2 Super AMOLED Advanced display and high quality materials in build/HDMI/SDCard -granted no removable battery )?
Do you think it would be better to go with the hardware and root/flash to Ice cream Sandwich later on?
I can confirm that Verizon is going to load this phone up with all sorts of preinstalled junk but obviously this is removable by anyone who roots their device, but how easy will it be to root something on 4.0 given that there isnt much out there for it?
I personally was dying for a Droid with Icecream Sandwich on it but im afraid to jump on board with Samsung again because of the known issues with the antennae in the phone (dropping service, poor 4G to 3G transition, all of which are confirmed issues with have haunted Verizon's 4G Samsung offerings)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Nexus is far superior in EVERY aspect. Even in specs. Nexus has OMAP 4460 Razr has OMAP 4430 and Rezound has the same ol MSM8660. The Nexus is UNDERCLOCKED at 1.2 ghz and the 4460 usually runs at 1.5 ghz stock. Not to mention the software on the Nexus which is obviously 4.0 has been built around that specific hardware. So if Google optimized ICS for that specific hardware setup that shows you something. It will run better on that setup then any other around. Not to mention you can OEM unlock the Nexus and you'll have to wait for exploits on the Rezound and the Razr you'll get some awful bootstrap application that won't even save you in a soft brick situation. To me the superior device is so obvious. The Razr is clearly marketed towards the average everyday user who just wants to make calls/text browse the web and do dumb things like Facebook. The Rezound will most likely be able to do the same things that the Nexus will be able to do though as long as it gets s-off (which I'm pretty sure it will, but when will it is the question). The development community is going to be absolutely HUGE on the Nexus, I am willing to bet it's going to be the biggest development community on a VZW phone since the original Moto DROID. Once again the choice is a no brainer to me and the majority of the people I know in the community. Nobody wants that crappy Razr and HTC does have nice hardware but they really need to switch up their style of devices. They are sexy as hell but the same old style is getting old IMO. Time for a little change HTC!
---------- Post added at 09:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 AM ----------
itsjusttim said:
Also have to consider bootloaders and xda development.... since you are posting here, you must be interested in enhancement of your phone.
When you add those to the overall specs, and that the nexus is a world phone... (added development on xda) its hard not to chose the GN, IMHO.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhhh, when did the Nexus become a world phone? The LTE version is NOT a world phone at all, and it's pretty clear that's the version he's talking about since he's comparing it to others on VZW.
Nice...
Honestly this was exactly the response i was hoping for, thank you
now im literally foaming at the mouth to get my nexus
martonikaj said:
Droid RAZR: MotoBlur
HTC Rezound: HTC Sense 3.5
Galaxy Nexus: Stock Android 4.0
Galaxy Nexus wins. Game over. Thread closed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THIS and everything about it.
The following is not my writing but it more or less sums up my feelings on the Android Universe.
http://www.technobuffalo.com/compan...-looking-at-android-all-wrong-user-submitted/
RVDigital said:
THIS and everything about it.
The following is not my writing but it more or less sums up my feelings on the Android Universe.
http://www.technobuffalo.com/compan...-looking-at-android-all-wrong-user-submitted/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree with this post, and what that user said in his.
They are not different operating systems. As much as you think Sense, Blur, and TouchWiz are different OSes or whatever, its just a SKIN. A theme. That's it. Nexus devices are just pure Android with no Skinning.
So you can take an HTC, Motorola or Samsung device, root it, and install an AOSP Rom of your choice. CM7 for example, and look... you have a pure Android Device too. You can't however, take an iPhone and install a fully functional Android OS on it.
So I look at devices for their hardware, not themeing or skins that can be easily removed and replaced. I can't however take out the CPU and drop something newer or better in it... or change out a monitor/display like you can on a desktop.
Sent from my SCH-I400 using Tapatalk
Tornlogic said:
I have to disagree with this post, and what that user said in his.
They are not different operating systems. As much as you think Sense, Blur, and TouchWiz are different OSes or whatever, its just a SKIN. A theme. That's it. Nexus devices are just pure Android with no Skinning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never said that they are completely different OSes, but they're pretty darn close (looking at you, Sense). My point is that although it is just a skin, you can't remove it. You can't get rid of it, and you can't disable it out of the box.
So you can take an HTC, Motorola or Samsung device, root it, and install an AOSP Rom of your choice. CM7 for example, and look... you have a pure Android Device too. You can't however, take an iPhone and install a fully functional Android OS on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First off, who said anything about an iPhone? Going to disregard that part.
Yes, obviously you can root and custom ROM your phone. But why should I have to root my phone just to get the experience that I want? Is it too much to ask to just get the OS and setup I want right out of the box? Or at least have the option to turn off the OEM and carrier **** they put on it?
So I look at devices for their hardware, not themeing or skins that can be easily removed and replaced. I can't however take out the CPU and drop something newer or better in it... or change out a monitor/display like you can on a desktop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to respectfully disagree. The hardware specs are good to keep in mind, but they aren't everything. The difference of a couple hundred mhz processor, or slightly different memory config, or dimensions don't have to be the only thing you factor your buying decision on.
With a device like a Nexus, you can really consider the phone for its entire experience, and what it comes out of the box as. You've got to realize that sometimes that's important to people. I shouldn't have to buy a phone and root it the moment I get home just to have a usable experience. And I know its stupid, but I just can't keep supporting companies that completely destroy Android like that.
You can have fun buying your phone and waiting for a root method, then flashing a new ROM and watching as dev support drops off and you're left with an old ROM on your phone. I'm going Nexus this time around, and don't plan on doing anything else.
Tornlogic said:
I have to disagree with this post, and what that user said in his.
They are not different operating systems. As much as you think Sense, Blur, and TouchWiz are different OSes or whatever, its just a SKIN. A theme. That's it. Nexus devices are just pure Android with no Skinning.
So you can take an HTC, Motorola or Samsung device, root it, and install an AOSP Rom of your choice. CM7 for example, and look... you have a pure Android Device too. You can't however, take an iPhone and install a fully functional Android OS on it.
So I look at devices for their hardware, not themeing or skins that can be easily removed and replaced. I can't however take out the CPU and drop something newer or better in it... or change out a monitor/display like you can on a desktop.
Sent from my SCH-I400 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Consider the following...
Saying Sense, TouchWiz, and MotoBlur are simply "Skins" on top of stock AOSP is like saying Ubuntu, Mint Linux, and the various other Debian Bases are "Skins" of Debian. Yes, they all share the same BASE, but this is the only thing they have in common. HTC, Samsung, and Moto have deeply integrated their UIs into the Android platform and have basically made it their own.
As the poster above me stated, the skins cannot be simply removed. If that was the case, I would have AOSP on my EVO 3D by now. Since HTC has decided to deeply integrate their drivers into their Sense Android Operating system framework, "Vanilla Android" is not possible at this time.
RVDigital said:
Consider the following...
Saying Sense, TouchWiz, and MotoBlur are simply "Skins" on top of stock AOSP is like saying Ubuntu, Mint Linux, and the various other Debian Bases are "Skins" of Debian. Yes, they all share the same BASE, but this is the only thing they have in common. HTC, Samsung, and Moto have deeply integrated their UIs into the Android platform and have basically made it their own.
As the poster above me stated, the skins cannot be simply removed. If that was the case, I would have AOSP on my EVO 3D by now. Since HTC has decided to deeply integrate their drivers into their Sense Android Operating system framework, "Vanilla Android" is not possible at this time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. Yes, Sense/Touchwiz/Blur are "skins" or themes over Android, but it goes deeper than that. It's not just a theme like you see themes for different ROMs coming out (where different colors and background images are used) - it goes down to the firmware level, with drivers to run the redesigned apps and add extra functionality (or take some away).
RVDigital said:
Consider the following...
Saying Sense, TouchWiz, and MotoBlur are simply "Skins" on top of stock AOSP is like saying Ubuntu, Mint Linux, and the various other Debian Bases are "Skins" of Debian. Yes, they all share the same BASE, but this is the only thing they have in common. HTC, Samsung, and Moto have deeply integrated their UIs into the Android platform and have basically made it their own.
As the poster above me stated, the skins cannot be simply removed. If that was the case, I would have AOSP on my EVO 3D by now. Since HTC has decided to deeply integrate their drivers into their Sense Android Operating system framework, "Vanilla Android" is not possible at this time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ubuntu, Mint, Debian are all just distros; Sense, TouchWiz, and MotoBlur are just skins. They are not operating systems. The operating systems are, in the first case, GNU/Linux; and in the second case, Android. The operating system provides a set of libraries and defines a set of standards for programs to run on the OS. Just like any program made for GNU/Linux on x86 will run on any x86 system running GNU/Linux, regardless of whether it's running Debian or Ubuntu or Mint, any program made for Android on ARMv7 will run on any ARMv7 system running Android, regardless of whether it's running TouchWiz or Sense or MotoBLUR. In the case of Ubuntu, Debian, Mint etc. we call them distros because they include a set of choices of components in addition to the GNu/Linux base system (package managers, window managers, desktop environments, etc.). In the case of TouchWiz, Sense, etc. we call them skins because they include a customized look & feel and a set of additional applications and widgets that run on top of the OS. You might argue that these might be called distros, but that's a bit of a stretch because the customizations provided by these don't extend far beyond the look & feel and some additional utilities that run on top of the Android base system, and possibly some native drivers for each manufacturer's hardware. It is not quite as extensive a customization as a distro, they are more like standard Android bundled with a custom skin and some additional apps and drivers. They are certainly not different OSes.
Chirality said:
Ubuntu, Mint, Debian are all just distros; Sense, TouchWiz, and MotoBlur are just skins. They are not operating systems. The operating systems are, in the first case, GNU/Linux; and in the second case, Android. The operating system provides a set of libraries and defines a set of standards for programs to run on the OS. Just like any program made for GNU/Linux on x86 will run on any x86 system running GNU/Linux, regardless of whether it's running Debian or Ubuntu or Mint, any program made for Android on ARMv7 will run on any ARMv7 system running Android, regardless of whether it's running TouchWiz or Sense or MotoBLUR. In the case of Ubuntu, Debian, Mint etc. we call them distros because they include a set of choices of components in addition to the GNu/Linux base system (package managers, window managers, desktop environments, etc.). In the case of TouchWiz, Sense, etc. we call them skins because they include a customized look & feel and a set of additional applications and widgets that run on top of the OS. You might argue that these might be called distros, but that's a bit of a stretch because the customizations provided by these don't extend far beyond the look & feel and some additional utilities that run on top of the Android base system, and possibly some native drivers for each manufacturer's hardware. It is not quite as extensive a customization as a distro, they are more like standard Android bundled with a custom skin and some additional apps and drivers. They are certainly not different OSes.
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I realize that the analogy I provided is not a 1:1 example. I will substitute "Branch" for my use of the word "Distro" in the previous example to better explain the point of view.
In reply to your post I ask, how do you explain the deep framework integration manufactures such as HTC utilize to a point where the removal of such framework from the base AOSP causes hardware to stop functioning? I cant simply accept that this is a "Skin" of the base, I see HTC Sense as a BRANCH of the Android base.
The point is, its not even close to Google's idea or implementation of Android. When you add things to the base experience, you're going to run into unique (positive/negative) consequences that one otherwise wouldn't with AOSP. Take for example, HTCs recent controversy over their "Spyware" that was integrated into the Sense branch.
RVDigital said:
I realize that the analogy I provided is not a 1:1 example. I will substitute "Branch" for my use of the word "Distro" in the previous example to better explain the point of view.
In reply to your post I ask, how do you explain the deep framework integration manufactures such as HTC utilize to a point where the removal of such framework from the base AOSP causes hardware to stop functioning? I cant simply accept that this is a "Skin" of the base, I see HTC Sense as a BRANCH of the Android base.
The point is, its not even close to Google's idea or implementation of Android. When you add things to the base experience, you're going to run into unique (positive/negative) consequences that one otherwise wouldn't with AOSP. Take for example, HTCs recent controversy over their "Spyware" that was integrated into the Sense branch.
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It's not framework integration that's preventing you from using AOSP on your HTC device, it's the availability of device drivers. If HTC made all their device drivers available in source form, then you can just build these for AOSP and use AOSP on HTC devices with full functionality. The skin and the drivers can be decoupled - the skin may contain certain utilities that depend on some drivers to function, but the drivers shouldn't depend on the skin or its included apps to function. Imagine if Asus designed some special hardware that runs on their x86-based computers and sold a version of Windows that includes these special drivers that are not available anywhere else, then you have to buy Asus' version of Windows to run on these Asus computers, but it's still just Windows, with some extra drivers, not a fork of Windows. Of course you can't do this with Windows since it's a proprietary system, but it's done with Linux and Android, for better or worse.
Quick question: Do you guys think that the distribution of developer support for these phones? After all, the reason that most of us are here are because of the community, and its the dev community is what makes phones today great, and I just want to pick a phone that will have a large developer following.
Chirality said:
It's not framework integration that's preventing you from using AOSP on your HTC device, it's the availability of device drivers. If HTC made all their device drivers available in source form, then you can just build these for AOSP and use AOSP on HTC devices with full functionality. The skin and the drivers can be decoupled - the skin may contain certain utilities that depend on some drivers to function, but the drivers shouldn't depend on the skin or its included apps to function. Imagine if Asus designed some special hardware that runs on their x86-based computers and sold a version of Windows that includes these special drivers that are not available anywhere else, then you have to buy Asus' version of Windows to run on these Asus computers, but it's still just Windows, with some extra drivers, not a fork of Windows. Of course you can't do this with Windows since it's a proprietary system, but it's done with Linux and Android, for better or worse.
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The problem is HTC does NOT provide the necessary driver source and thus it remains closed. They have taken an originally open source platform and effectively locked it down, short of closing it. I have a hard time understanding how this can simply be called a "Skin". Nothing about Sense is necessary for the Android experience, it's simply paint, wallpaper, and furniture.
It's like comparing Oranges and Grapefruit. Similar, even in the same family, but NOT the same.
Anyone have any idea why they are still producing this phone? It just seems strange they would still be making new ones when most early adopts are already up for an upgrade.. and the hardware itself is getting old(while still running ICS thanks to our great community, it raises the question how much farther will the phone be able to be updated..)
a cheaper alternative maybe? or its just that good..
That's exactly what manufacturers wants to hear from consumers. Why buy phones that have lasting dollar values and gets frequent software updates when you can buy a new expensive one every year that doesn't have great built quality and with zero to almost no software update?
Android can use a bit cleaning up on the performance side, even the Galaxy Note stock rom have hiccups because of the bloatness, with quadcore phones they'll have more excuss to bloat and put animations in. Windows Phone 7 seems to do fine with single core. It's not like my Galaxy S is struggling with any of the new games at 800x480 resolution.
Well we already know Samsung said "Nope, ain't gonna happen" for ICS on the Captivate even in spite of builds being made available by the talented folk here at XDA and at other places online. The excuse that "the hardware isn't capable of running ICS adequately" is always a crock because I'm running Doc's Master v8 right now, ICS 4.0.3 based, and I get higher benchmarks with this ROM than the stock KK4 AT&T Gingerbread 2.3.5 ROM with:
- Quadrant
- Antutu
- Vellamo (with Vellamo I actually get slightly higher scores than a Galaxy Nexus, unbelievable)
and several others I've tried recently. So much for being "inadequate" or an underpowered device...
So, Samsung, stop whining and making excuses and just give us some ICS source so people can make a pure ROM I suppose.
Doc's v9 is nice since it's currently a beta and completely unthemed, but a lot of stuff won't install properly on it from Play (although I can install them from the APKs if I remember to manually save them in between ROM swaps).
It's a great phone, it has a beautiful design overall (one of my all time favorites, with the HD2 still being the king of all smartphones to me), USB and headphone connections on the top - I hate it when they're on the sides or bottom, and the main draw being the Super AMOLED display.
People still buy 'em, so Samsung keeps making 'em and AT&T keeps selling 'em.
Works for me.
Snow_fox said:
Anyone have any idea why they are still producing this phone? It just seems strange they would still be making new ones when most early adopts are already up for an upgrade.. and the hardware itself is getting old(while still running ICS thanks to our great community, it raises the question how much farther will the phone be able to be updated..)
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The R&D and tooling have long been paid for and there are still people buying. It's practically free money for them. The longer they're made, the cheaper they can get. The cheaper they can get, the more they're sold.
I sought this phone out actively because I liked my Epic and knew how to root & fix it easily. I didn't want a contract and for $250 brand new vs $600 for a Note it was a no-brainer.
Snow_fox said:
Anyone have any idea why they are still producing this phone? It just seems strange they would still be making new ones when most early adopts are already up for an upgrade..
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Simple, it sells. And with it running 2.3.5, it's very much up to date OS wise. It's not ICS, but at this point what is?
The early adopters are a rather small crowd of people that seems large to us because they are the tech obsesses folks that make xda what it is. They count for next to nothing compared to the "average user."
This phone is exactly what Samsung aimed for it to be, a Flagship. It was way a head of the curve when it first came out, and is still a great phone. It's been muddied by the early releases but, the fact that Samsung still won out (and is the top selling android manufacturer) means it really was an excellent device (and family of devices).
It's time is almost up though, because ICS really is beyond its abilities.
br0adband said:
The excuse that "the hardware isn't capable of running ICS adequately" is always a crock because I'm running Doc's Master v8 right now, ICS 4.0.3 based
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But it can't. We don't even have half the features, almost everything new to ICS has been stripped out because we don't have the hardware for it. Sure, the core OS can be made to run on our phone, but even at that we can't run it properly. The things your comparing against are to that of 2.2, ICS is not some dinky internal tweaks. It's a whole new OS, it's 4.0 not 2.4. Now I'll admit that most of the new parts to ICS are little more then shiny buttons that don't serve us much good. But it's rather easy to dismiss things you've never been able to do before. Once you get your hands on a phone actually built for ICS, that is then made future-proof like the ours was, you'll look back at the cappy and laugh at it.
DaNaRkI said:
Once you get your hands on a phone actually built for ICS, that is then made future-proof like the ours was, you'll look back at the cappy and laugh at it.
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Had a Galaxy Nexus - the flagship Android 4.0 device - and couldn't stand it so I returned it and decided to wait on something better. Then the Galaxy Note came out and I can't wait to see what ICS can really do on that device, but since I can't actually afford one I guess that won't matter anyway.
Found this Captivate on craigslist for $60 and it's been fantastic since the moment I bought it. I swear the SGS feels more responsive and stable running a "hack" ROM of the same OS than the Nexus did/does. Yes it could just be some placebo effect, I suppose. A benchmark using Vellamo puts this SGS running an ICS ROM (at 1.2 GHz) outpacing the Nexus, go figure - a single core device running an unofficial hack of an OS besting the dual core flagship device for that very OS... ain't it cool?
There may be some aspects of ICS that the SGS can't do (NFC, etc) but they just so happen to be features I don't give a damn about, either so... it all works out in the end.
phone is sold
as long as ppl buy it.
u can get iPhone3gs u know - @ great price.
br0adband said:
Had a Galaxy Nexus - the flagship Android 4.0 device - and couldn't stand it so I returned it and decided to wait on something better.
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The Galaxy Nexus is not a flagship, just like the Nexus S was not. It's a debut phone and like the other Nexus phones, a developers phone. It's mean to showcase the abilities of ICS, not push the limits of a phone. Our phone came out before the Nexus S, yet that phone has a lot of the exact same internals. Why? ours was made future-proofed, nothing better was needed for GB. The Galaxy Nexus was also not top of the line at it's release, just compare it to an SGS2. Future proof would have meant that LTE was designed into the phone at start, not added later.
But you do bring up a very good point that I already admitted to, most of the new abilities are rather unnecessary for a phone. But I don't doubt that once a good ICS phone comes out we'll find ways to work them into our daily life. Just like we have for all the unnecessary things that the Cappy can do now.
The Captivate is a pretty solid phone still. I still have mine kicking around that I use now for playing music since my Galaxy Nexus doesnt have external memory (and apps are getting bigger and bigger in size so I need all the space I can get) so this phone does quite well for that.
I think I would still be using this phone if it had a bigger screen (I got big hands) and if Samsung was continuing to update this.
i use my spare captivate as a skype phone (between rom tests).
and where is the phone still being sold?
In todays fast moving technology world, everyone is intrigued to buy new devices. And this norm is fumed by innumerous manufacturers by releasing products at an insane rate. You have got too many choices and only think to wonder is how much you can afford to pay. Sometimes taking loans is common or simply you take a contract with a provider and regret there is nothing you can do to change your phone afterwards.
Every other day, new features are coming to devices and you wish you had just waited a month to buy the other phone.
Buying the every latest devices is not very wise as you spend alot of your money for just one or two extra features.
SOME CONSIDERATIONS
You must know that in todays phone era, the hardware has gone a long way in comparison with software. My point isnot that software is developing at a slower pace but simply that most of phones available today might never use their full potential in terms of hardware ever. Android Software is going more smooth and promises further improvements even on low end devices. With KITKAT 4.4, Android has gone into a surge to speed up system by 50% and that's just the beginning.
Most of manufacturers are working hard on ONLY hardware. Even phones released two years ago are doing very well till date. If you look into software department and games, you can still play all of latest games on these devices very smoothly. I will give you examples of HTC sensation/Incredible S, Samsung Nexus, SII or any other phone of that time with almost similar hardware. I have checked MC4/Fifa 14/Asphlat 8 personally on all of these devices.
I think to update my Nexus 7 2013 in 2015 and my Nexus 4 Next year (October 2014) while Xperia L around when it is required. Following this scheme I always have the latest device with me and I also do not spend a lot of money. (700-800 British Pounds every three year, considering that I am a Medicine Student and under a lot of loan already). Also what is more to look is that my old devices are still doing a great job. I recently installed CM 10.2(JB 4.3) on my HTC Sensation and it runs just as smooth as Nexus 4/Xperia L for the matter. The software is stable and I can play HD games on 786MB RAM only.
Another point to note is that KitKat 4.4 has only been released for about a week now and I am using 4.3 on my two year old HTC sensation using Custom ROM is simply too cool.
So I WARN you that you need to be smart to buy a new phone rather than spending alot of money on every new phone and never utilising its full potential.
ASK YOURSELF
The most important point you need to consider is WHY EXACTLY YOU WANT TO BUY A NEW PHONE? WHERE your old phone canot be utilised that you must upgrade it.
What would you utilise it for in the LONG RUN? HOW LONG YOU INTEND TO USE IT. WHAT ARE SOME SPECIFIC FEATURES THAT YOU ARE LOOKING INTO BEFORE BUYING.
I know for many looks of a device counts. You want your device to be COOL and feel great in your hand. I agree to the matter but certainly you should never compromise LOOKS with actual performance and hardware. Benchmarks are just a bunch of lies and in real use, they do differ alot and cannot be fully trusted.
I personally give a lot of stress to your HARDWARE and your SCREEN SIZE.
At the moment we are into Octa Core era but have you ever actually thought that if your phone ever used all of these cores at once? I think even Quad Core processors are not fully utilised. Many HD games still just utilise dual core and the rest are off. So in real, many games are not fully using your full phone potential as lack of support from developers or lack of customization to utilise all cores/hardware ! Don't you feel trolled?
Windows phone is fast growing platform but it still lacks a lot what Android offers on the table. I prefer Android over Windows phone any day!
(That's another debate! http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=45932842&postcount=14)
If you just want a simple phone for calls and texts and emails and limited apps, I WILL SIMPLY TELL YOU TO USE WP8 or if you just want to call and text NOKIA 3310 (or any in the sequence) shall suit you.
So going for Quardcores (now i think its justified but if all cores are optimized in every application)/Octacores/64bits is just rubbage and you are just tricked out of money when you have something very latest but developers havenot made anything that it can utilise. So if you are considering a phone to use for next two years, I believe a recognised company's quardcore would be more than enough. A change to this trend in future is inevitable but not enough uptill now to run for the latest device. (Remember Mediatek Octacore can not win from Qualcomm Quadcore, so consider which company to choose)
RAM is very important and I believe this should not be compromised. Many phones will do just great on 1gb ram but I will prefer a 2gb ram if my phone is to be used for two or more years.
GPU This is something really tricky which might FORCE anyone to buy a phone with higher GPU. GPU takes a part of ram and its function is to compute 3D functions and thus is mostly utilised in GAMES. So if you are a gamer, I will suggest you to buy a phone with latest GPU rather than an old one. Xperia L/Xperia P/ Xperia M all share almost the same price. However, Xperia P is an old device while Xperia L is recent. Thus, Xperia L will give alot better performance and more smoothness to your ROM comparatively to Xperia P because it can handle graphics better due to its latest GPU.
SCREENSIZE I personally prefer any device bigger than 4 inch display. 3.5 is just too small for your fingers and 5 is just to big for me. For me, 4.3 to 4.7 is just perfect as not only it is big enough to read/games/emails but also gives you enough for big hands.
Remember to always BUY A DEVICE WHICH IS DEVELOPERS FRIENDLY. You won't find much ROMS for HTC Amaze although it has almost the same specification as HTC sensation.
CORTEX CONSIDERATION When you are buying any phone, we usually just consider the clock speed of processor and usually ignore the technology on which the processor is build on. The processors which are currently being available in the market are Cortex A5, A7, A9, A12 and A15. What does this mean? Consider it this way, it shows the technology they are build upon and using. The Cortex A5 is oldest which cortex A15 is latest.
Lately 64 bits have also being introduced A53 & A57. These out perform the previous ones!
If you are wondering how does this make a difference, well take this as an example : A device running a dual core Cortex A9 1 Ghz would run faster than a dual core Cortex A5 clocked at 1.5 Ghz. This is because as the technology is growing, the architecture of the chips are also changing to improve their performance. As the Cortex A9 uses new architecture, thus many improvements have been made to enhance the device performance. ( Xperia U used 1ghz A9 with 512 Ram whilst Samsung Galaxy Star uses 1Ghz A5 with 512 Ram as well but if you talk about their performance, there is a lot of difference between the two. I have personally used both of them) So always consider a device with higher cortex if you can afford to!
REMOVABLE BATTERY is important for those who want to easily swap batteries or want to use their phones for long period of time. This is just a big draw back for me as I keep three devices and I update each one annually so this means that I need to change my nexus after using it for around 2 years to 3 years. In this time, I need to change my battery as battery does get worn out and damaged. But I just can not easily do that.
You might be wondering, the new ROMS are not available. Well actually they are but custom made. If you check out Android development of these phones, you will be surprised that many developers are giving their best to just work hard on new ROMS and they are all great.
At times you just need to do little tweaks.(Some games aren't available on specific models but those devices are capable of running them very smoothly. Tweaks help in these matters)
Another thing one of my friend asked me to add was about support from different manufacturers to their devices! Well, every company has a different policy of releasing updates for their phones according to their price tag (Flashship, mid end, low end phones). So make sure you consider what is their possibility of being updated to newer version of android if you are looking for STOCK roms coming directly from manufacturers. Samsung for the fact is releasing phones every single day and I think, you can not expect support for its low end phones at all whilst one update for mid ranges and few more high ends/flash ship phones.
Sony on the other hand is always slow with updates but provides open source code at times if it doesnot plan to update the android version.
Motorola starts to amaze me with its policy to update even the lower end phones to Android Lollipop and in my opinion Moto updates the android version more frequently and much quicker than any other manufacturer.
Usually the support is around ONE year to ONE and half year max for Flagship phones; SIX months - ONE year for mid-range phones whilst ZERO to FEW BUG fixing updates for lower end phones!
However, If you got a carrier phone like VODA, AT&T etc, you are pretty much struck with your PROVIDER rather than manufacturer for that fact! Usually these phones come with locked bootloaders which are a tough nut to crack, and thus you can only flash ROMs which are made for LOCKED BOOTLOADERS. Thus, if you can afford it, you should buy a contract free phone straight from manufacturer. This will allow you more freedom to customise your phone to your advantage by flashing ROMS, kernels, mods etc! However, it will simply be useless to a person who is not ready to take the risks!
Android Platform
Android Platform is growing very rapidly and new improvements have been introduced with every new build. I think the only issue now Android is still struggling with is battery life in standby mode which although has been improved quite considerably with Android Lollipop but I think it still needs some work in the future which I am sure Google is looking into very closely.
I think this is enough for you to decide if you really need to buy a phone or not.
GOOD LUCK!
Updates :
Added the following in the guide
*Oems
*Generally how long a phone is updated according to it's class (Flagship, low end or mid range phone)
*Considering the advantage of using newer architecture of processor (Cortex)
*Disadvantages of carrier phones
Any suggestions be welcomed!
PLANNED UPDATES :
What to look for in a phone if you are a Gamer, Text & Call person, Mobile Cinema addict, Internet Browsing Freak etc
Edit it more to be organised and easy to access headings for skimming through
What devices do you use?
@Hnk1, well said.
I am still using my good old HTC Touch HD (Blackstone), now upgraded to WM 6.5, and it is still running great. Gives me more than a couple of days on a single battery charge.
You should mention that some OEMs, like LG, like to pump out flagships phones every 3 month that means that your phone, from LG will not get alot of SW support.
That said, other OEMs have the same philosophy for mid range to low end devices. I am talking about official support, Some devices are lucky and get Custom rom support but then, custom roms are more often than not a compromise and not a solution as they have and always will have bugs.
You cannot have up to date phones, with removable batteries and the best experience. Its a world of compromise, as it is nearly for everything else.
Thanks! Hnk1..
This guide is very is helpful ..
thnx
Thanks. Its very useful
xyz121 said:
Great guide man, Thanks!
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Revontheus said:
What devices do you use?
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chan.sk said:
@Hnk1, well said.
I am still using my good old HTC Touch HD (Blackstone), now upgraded to WM 6.5, and it is still running great. Gives me more than a couple of days on a single battery charge.
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shadowcore said:
You should mention that some OEMs, like LG, like to pump out flagships phones every 3 month that means that your phone, from LG will not get alot of SW support.
That said, other OEMs have the same philosophy for mid range to low end devices. I am talking about official support, Some devices are lucky and get Custom rom support but then, custom roms are more often than not a compromise and not a solution as they have and always will have bugs.
You cannot have up to date phones, with removable batteries and the best experience. Its a world of compromise, as it is nearly for everything else.
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TwinEdge said:
Thanks! Hnk1..
This guide is very is helpful ..
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thereefour777 said:
thnx
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Lukadevilu said:
Thanks. Its very useful
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The guide is updated! Added OEMS and carriers briefly. Also, I added little debate about WP vs Android. People's opinion could be different so I respect that! The whole debate is here :
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2450502&page=1
Secondly, I am glad the guide was a help to all of you! Keep sharing so more people can benefit from it!
I use alot of devices and I borrow many devices from my friends and family to experiment with them! At the moment I am using Xperia L, Nexus 4 and Nexus 7 2013. Other phones are either exchanged, sold to buy a new one, lent so they keep changing time to time as they are for development/experimenting purposes only!
Nice guide.
Lord of the Droids said:
Nice guide.
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I'm glad you liked it