[BOOT ANIMATION] V2.0 - Retrograde Sensation (Hero is back...) - HTC Sensation

Like some people, I missed the little 'droid boot animation from my HTC Hero.
So I've made one for my Sensation...
As you can see from the YouTube clip above, it's a re-work of the original Hero boot
It's available to download from here : https://sites.google.com/site/techbobbins/home/articles/retrograde-sensation
It also incorporates the black HTC "quietly brilliant" graphic already available on XDA (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1193798&highlight=black+htc) - so credit where that is due (mexxxico)
Just put the .zip & .mp3 into /data/local (or just the .zip if you don't want the noise!)
NOTE: This animation was created for use (initially) with ARHD 1.1.8 - if your bootanimation.zip goes elsewhere, put it (and the mp3) in the relevant location.
splash.img is obviously just the splash image, and instructions for getting that up are here...
UPDATE: I have now (30/08/2011) released V2.0, in which I have :
updated the main animation to be reflected (although I have not yet made the 'droid character reflect!)
reduced the .zip by 176K (size matters!)
amended the timings slightly to (IMO) better match the sound
removed the 'non-reflected' splash image - only the reflected one is available now
NB: Someone noted the reflected text is hard to see - it's as close as I could get it to the Hero one, and thus is very faded - if you tilt the top of your phone toward your eyes and "look down" on the phone, you'll definitely see it
Hope you like it

pushed the bootanimation only, it works great and looks great! thanks so much!

Welcome
When I get some more time, I'll add the faded mirror text under Sensation (like it was on the Hero originally) - but for a first stab, I'm happy

Ow, so lovely Thanks you made this, mate! That was the only thing I missed about my Hero!

Great work! Best boot animation for sensation so far!
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App

Great work! Thanks

this works on 2.3.4?

I can't get different boot animations to work. I place them in the /data/local folder, but nothing changes when I restart my phone. Also tried placing them in the /system/customize/resource folder... But nothing. Anyone know what gives?
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App

kurtis.austin2 said:
I can't get different boot animations to work. I place them in the /data/local folder, but nothing changes when I restart my phone. Also tried placing them in the /system/customize/resource folder... But nothing. Anyone know what gives?
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you change the permissions? ("owner" read&write ticked, "group" only read ticked and "others" only read ticked)

BladeKnight said:
this works on 2.3.4?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It should, but as I'm running ARHD, I've not (yet) gone to 2.1.0 to try it.

Axefield said:
Did you change the permissions? ("owner" read&write ticked, "group" only read ticked and "others" only read ticked)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are rooted (which you presumably are), get an adb shell up and run
Code:
find / -name *animation.zip
It will return any file ending animation.zip (such as bootanimation.zip) with the full path. If you have a TMOUS for example, I believe they put their file in the resource dir, whereas ARHD lives in /data/local
Find your existing one, and put your chosen ones in that location with the same name - just backup the old one first

hey guys does i need to root my phone to change the boot animacion please tell me cous i want to get rid off the stupid vodafone logo

ice_lander said:
hey guys does i need to root my phone to change the boot animacion please tell me cous i want to get rid off the stupid vodafone logo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you do - start here. Post all support related questions in the Q&A forum or in that linked thread.

mp3 file
hi,ive got the bootanimation to work but im finding it very very hard to get the sound working also,ive tried putting it in data/local didin't work...ive now got bootanimation in system/customize/resource and works PERFECTLY,i've tried puttin the mp3 file in system/media/ringtones........NO JOY........i've set permission to RW-R-R. Please could u tell me what i've done wrong........THANKS

It seems some custom roms vary.
Mine (ARHD) is quite happy in /data/local - called android_audio.mp3
Try calling it android.mp3, and putting in the resource directory.
Also, you don't need to reboot to try it, you can simply run adb shell, and run "bootanimation" from the # prompt
This thread (here) shows the anim being renamed as well, so it's a bit rom dependant!
Happy hunting though!

ptruman said:
UPDATE: There is now a second splash image (splash_reflection.img) which has the Hero-style reflected text. I've yet to update this to the rest of the animation but it'll be coming...
Hope you like it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very good boot. Any plan to update?
If you do, any chance you can modify the splash/boot so that when transition is smoother?
Also, the Quitly Brilliant "Sound" is a little late compared to the animation.

Does the build.prop determine default file name and location for resources like splashes and boot animations?

omar302 said:
Very good boot. Any plan to update?
If you do, any chance you can modify the splash/boot so that when transition is smoother?
Also, the Quitly Brilliant "Sound" is a little late compared to the animation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't modify the splash/boot transition timing...
The splash.img is a ROM item (BMP converted directly from one of the JPGs in the anim), and the 1st graphic frame of the animation is the same dimensions/image (barring reflection) - it's how the phone O/S cuts over....
I should be able to work on the sound/sync - it's the exact audio file from the Hero, which I don't want to play with - so I may be able to shorten (or speed up ) the Sensation fade out so the audio is in quicker.
re: updating in general - I do plan to, but am a bit busy atm!

halftonehero said:
Does the build.prop determine default file name and location for resources like splashes and boot animations?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope! I don't know where it's defined, other than in the OS.

Thank you much!
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App

Related

Do something special to boot animations?

I am trying to change the boot animation on my X. I have pushed bootanimation.zip to both /data/local and /system/media using Terminal Emulator, adb push, and root explorer. All I'm getting is a black screen after the M logo. I was able to successfully change it to the red rage boot animation by pushing it to /system/media but the sizing was off and it didn't looks so good. But I have tried 2 different BA's and get the black screen. Do I need to modify something to make it compatible with the X? Below are the 2 I was trying to push.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=640856
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=715773
PS I have rooted 2.1
Edit: removed
Sorry didn't read the post thoroughly enough
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Am I the first one trying to make a boot animation for the X?
Explodee said:
Am I the first one trying to make a boot animation for the X?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. There's a thread @ AndroidForums about custom boot animations and working ones. Since my account is apparently "new", I'm unable to link to the thread. If you go to the Motorola Droid X forums, then to the "All things Root" thread, you'll see one started entitled "Custom Boot - Blue X takeover for root users."
Thanks but that guy is just skinning the original BA. I'm trying to put a completely different one one. I'll do some experimenting today while sitting at work I guess...
i know when making livewallpapers and what not the .png has to be certain dimensions and 24bit .
i would right click the png check properties and see if it says 32 if it does i believe the png cant be processed and will give a black screen.
only other thing i can think of is the desc.txt file which tells the phone how fast or w/e to show the pics. that i know little about.
edit: i believe though 8bit is ok for png, and it might be different i would check the properties of the original to see
Explodee said:
I am trying to change the boot animation on my X. I have pushed bootanimation.zip to both /data/local and /system/media using Terminal Emulator, adb push, and root explorer. All I'm getting is a black screen after the M logo. I was able to successfully change it to the red rage boot animation by pushing it to /system/media but the sizing was off and it didn't looks so good. But I have tried 2 different BA's and get the black screen. Do I need to modify something to make it compatible with the X? Below are the 2 I was trying to push.
PS I have rooted 2.1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this maybe stupid, but are you renaming them to bootanimation? they HAVE to be named that when you place them in the media folder in order for them to work!!
C'mon man, give me SOME credit...
HA GOT IT! When re-inserting (hehe) the files back into the bootanimation.zip, or when making a new zip, you need to set the compression to STORE. Then just drop it in /data/local with root explorer and you are good to go!

[Q] Boot animations i9000

Hey guys, I have been told to post this here as I have not made enough posts..
I tried to change my boot animation, by placing the bootanimation.zip file in both /system/media and /data/local and all still plays the Samsung boot logo although with no sound.. So searched through the forums here and everyone tells you that you need a custom rom to get it to work if your phone has the /system/media/bootsamsung.qmg file...
I then cooked a package from romkitchen and installed that but have the same issue, even though I can see the bootanimation.zip file in /system/media/ I can also still see the bootsamsung.qmg as well.
I have only just got this phone about a week ago, so have searched thoroughly, in case I was missing something but i don't think I am..
Can someone help me with what’s going on?
No one able to help me with this one?
Hm you should easily be able to change bootanimation with the rom kitchen.
Remember that you can not change the white text at the beginning of the boot.
I think the files stay there, they dont get removed, just another one gets used if its present, if not the stock animation will be used.
Dark3n said:
Hm you should easily be able to change bootanimation with the rom kitchen.
Remember that you can not change the white text at the beginning of the boot.
I think the files stay there, they dont get removed, just another one gets used if its present, if not the stock animation will be used.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply,
I'm not sure if this helps, I have cooked a new one today and applied and it said to keep this log incase I have issues.
http://romkitchen.org/logs/G0ceUf3inJ.txt
I can see the file is in the folder, it just does not seem to take affect.
I am assuming that people have got these working on i9000's before and it's just me..
I still have not managed to get this working, starting to think that I am tripping..
All it seems to do is kill the samsung boot sound.
Anyone else got any ideas?
TheAwkward said:
I still have not managed to get this working, starting to think that I am tripping..
All it seems to do is kill the samsung boot sound.
Anyone else got any ideas?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you use a stock rom?
This probably doesn't work because your android is not looking for the bootanimation.zip.
Custom ROMs have a modded start up script which tells the system to look for the .zip file.
I am using a rom from rom kitchen..
I have changed it again since I made post above but still a custom rom..
TheAwkward said:
I am using a rom from rom kitchen..
I have changed it again since I made post above but still a custom rom..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you try downloading a new wipe rom with a different bootanimation build in from start?
Yes, wipe rom, Hardcore's Kernel, boot animation, and everything else is prittly much the default setting in rom kitchen
Dark3n said:
Did you try downloading a new wipe rom with a different bootanimation build in from start?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think maybe that this is the one that I tried last if it helps
http://pastebin.com/NN5LARDq
Did you delete the boot animation file out of system/media,&put the new animation zip AND rename it to the same name as the one you deleted?
Sent from my EVO 4G using XDA Premium App
I have tried selecting the bootanimation from RK, and also downloading one from elsewhere and replacing the one that is there.
Both have the same effect..
Weird,I had trouble switching mine too. The only way I've been able to do it is using the app called File Explorer. It's like 10 dollars on the market, but I found it for free. I put the new zip on my card, then file explorer/system/media, delete the boot animation zip,paste the new zip & rename it to the name of the zip that was there. It's worked every time. Flashing a new splash screen is a little different....
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
I will try this again now and see how i go..
Just to clarify the splash screen is the white text right?
I am not trying to change that just the colored samsung animation.
The splash screen is the first screen you see when you turn your phone on. It doesn't move, & most often just says the name of the phone. Then the boot animation comes on, it moves & plays some kind of music. Do you have file explorer? If not, don't buy it,I can help you get it for free.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
I have Root Explorer that I use to access that location.
I have tried another bootanimation from this spot -http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=905538
I tried both of the sizes for the AndroidParticles2 and set the permissions to rw-r-r
(Renaming to bootanimations.zip and placing in system\media)
but still the samething happens.
Yeah, my bad,I meant Root Explorer. But it had to be bootanimation.zip take the s off
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
Sorry typo, I don't have the s on my i9000.
Well that's how I change mine. I did download a particle ring android (blue) and couldn't get it to work right. Seems to me like you're doing everything right. There's one other option I know of. Download a free program called android flasher.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=794638
You should be able to flash boot animations & splash screens with no problem. It is a .rar, so if you don't have the program you'll need to download winrar or something similar to extract & install the files. Google it, the program is free.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
It appears to just be for the Desire..
Thanks for your help today, at least I know now that I wasn't just doing something stupid.

[bootanimation] Fallout 3 plus splash!

For all of the Fallout fans, I just finished putting this together. I had to shrink the bootanimation though, it was to big at just half screen, the phone wouldn't even load it....
[Splash]
Put it on the SD card, reboot into hboot, flash it (only flashes the image, does not delete data)
[Animation]
Stock users; place in /system/customize/resource and overright the stock (or rename it as a backup)
Rom users; place it in the /data/local directory, and rename it to bootanimation.zip
Currently working on getting a boot sound to put on the stock but it's being a pain.........
EDIT: Modified the time abit on the animation
Mil'Dravin said:
For all of the Fallout fans, I just finished putting this together. I had to shrink the bootanimation though, it was to big at just half screen, the phone wouldn't even load it....
[Splash]
Put it on the SD card, reboot into hboot, flash it (only flashes the image, does not delete data)
[Animation]
Stock users; place in /system/customize/resource and overright the stock (or rename it as a backup)
Rom users; place it in the /data/local directory, and rename it to bootanimation.zip
Currently working on getting a boot sound to put on the stock but it's being a pain.........
EDIT: files not uploading right......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, I'm guessing this isn't good to go?
Looking forward to trying it out though.
It's good to go now, still working on the sound. Anyone know the exact sample rate of the original file?
The splash is working great but not the animation. I'm on RCMixHD Kingdom ROM and put the file in the data/local directory but I still get the HTC animation. Is the location it needs to go ROM specific?
lookin in to that...
I got it working. Had to put it in the customize/resource folder.
I like it but the video is really small.
I really like the splash though
+1 on the splash - cant wait to show it to my kid.
pside15 said:
I got it working. Had to put it in the customize/resource folder.
I like it but the video is really small.
I really like the splash though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ah, good. much like stock then :]
about the vid, i am looking for a larger res. I'm using youtube downloader, and it's always such a small vid :[
Mil'Dravin said:
ah, good. much like stock then :]
about the vid, i am looking for a larger res. I'm using youtube downloader, and it's always such a small vid :[
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been looking for a good video of the Vault Tec guy, whatever his name is, but I haven't been able to find one yet.
perk guy :]
dunno if a vid exists....he's never usually moving, just stationary....
He is active, sort of, in some of the vault tec commercials. Like this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--KbiSO9uIE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using XDA App
animation is not working with cyanogenmod. normally i would place in /system/media but when i rename and place in the folder all i get is a black screen.
Never usually
Never usually
Will this work with the captivate also?
Black screen
yeah im having trouble also i pushed the fie using terminal on my phone to /data/local/, it shows up there but when i reboot i get a black screen.also the splash screen looks like a bad reception tv. any fixes for these, because i was excited to have this on my phone. now im bummed
Fallout 3 Boot animation
Mil'Dravin said:
For all of the Fallout fans, I just finished putting this together. I had to shrink the bootanimation though, it was to big at just half screen, the phone wouldn't even load it....
[Splash]
Put it on the SD card, reboot into hboot, flash it (only flashes the image, does not delete data)
[Animation]
Stock users; place in /system/customize/resource and overright the stock (or rename it as a backup)
Rom users; place it in the /data/local directory, and rename it to bootanimation.zip
Currently working on getting a boot sound to put on the stock but it's being a pain.........
EDIT: Modified the time abit on the animation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey there,
I'm Will, Im a noob here, I work in motion graphics for a living. I promise not to step on your lawn.
I've been tinkering with my new phone (Galaxy S3) to try and make it look like a pip boy 3000. I also thought it would be cool to have the Boot animation be similar to the games, so I had a go at creating my own [Sorry cant post URLs Yet] problem is I cant figure out how to change it on the S3.
The file formate is QGM and I havent been able to find much on how to create them.
I was wondering if you might be able to help? or maybe your interested in collaborating? :highfive:
Let me know if you want to see the one I have done and I can Email you a link.
works
so far it works pretty well!
I know this is stupid question but can i use this bootanimation on my SGS3 GT-I9300? I asked this because i was looking for different animation and i found fallout 3 animation for sgs3 on youtube. Here's the link : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJF9YIOkyzo
thanks before

[MOD] Custome Boot Animation {Nexus prime included} [install any boot animation]

This is for permanently rooted or s-off devices.
or anyone wondering how to replace your bootanimation
After finding your desired boot animation
1.Open Root Explorer
2.Find your bootanimation.zip
3.Long press that file and click rename and rename it to "TMUS_bootanimation.zip" (Without quotes)
4.Long press angain and click COPY
5.Navigate to /system/customize/resource Click mount R/W in the top right corner
6.find the file that's called "TMUS_bootanimation.zip" and rename it to "TMUS_bootanimation.zip.back" That way you have a back up of the original.
7.Now press paste and you're all done.
REBOOT to see the animation.
I've included my favorite animation.
click here for preview (not my channel) someone else posted it.
Nexus Prime (not my channel) someone else posted it.
Oh, that's sexy.
yeah, thanks! So happy to have root finally!
how about an animation or preview of what the animation is?
It says "DROID" and then has a bunch of CGI circles/gears/things spinning around as your phone boots. It's all in silver/white with a black background. It's definitely more fun than the "my" logo for 30 seconds.
Try it out and see if you like it. You can always change it back if you don't delete the original file and rename it like I said. As always hitting the thanks button is very appreciated. I'll try to post an img
Edit: There is a link to a preview
You can always unzip the folder and look at the images.
You don't have to use my animation you can download anyone you want.
Sent from my mt4gs
Madblaster6 said:
You don't have to use my animation you can download anyone you want.
Sent from my mt4gs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can i haz catalog?
drboy2692 said:
can i haz catalog?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Out of all seriousness. Google.com just google android boot animations. Or even on youtube....
Sent from my mt4gs
Welcome
Sent from my mt4gs
Anyway to change the shutdown animation? I tried the same method, but it didn't work.
Or the "MyTouch4G Slide" Splash screen at the boot's start up? It's gotta be somewhere, I'm thinking maybe even the same subdirectory, but I"m a bit hesitant to tinker around at the moment lol
AndroidAutobot said:
Or the "MyTouch4G Slide" Splash screen at the boot's start up? It's gotta be somewhere, I'm thinking maybe even the same subdirectory, but I"m a bit hesitant to tinker around at the moment lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't edit the very first splash screen. Its possible but it's not part of the android operating system.
As for the shutdown screen its the same method but I don't remember The file name you replace.
Sent from my mt4gs
RazoE said:
Anyway to change the shutdown animation? I tried the same method, but it didn't work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The bootdown animation is found under system > customize > resource > hTC_downanimation.zip
The true question is this - does the bootdown animation have the same amount of frames as a traditional bootscreen animation? If it does the process of replacing it should be fairly easy. If there is variance that may be the reason some have seemed to have some trouble. Ill test it out this evening when i get home.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
AndroidAutobot said:
The bootdown animation is found under system > customize > resource > hTC_downanimation.zip
The true question is this - does the bootdown animation have the same amount of frames as a traditional bootscreen animation? If it does the process of replacing it should be fairly easy. If there is variance that may be the reason some have seemed to have some trouble. Ill test it out this evening when i get home.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I replaced that file with a custom boot animation, however the screen was just black. I'm thinking the number of frames may be the issue.
RazoE said:
I replaced that file with a custom boot animation, however the screen was just black. I'm thinking the number of frames may be the issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny... I was JUST about to come on here to address this issue. Had the exact same thing just happen to me. What you have is a simple problem with permissions being set incorrectly. Super easy fix.
Using root explorer, navigate to the bootdown animation , mount as r/w, longpress the boot down animation, select "permissions" and make sure it looks like the picture I'm attaching to this post. That should do it =) Let me know if that worked.
Oh yeah, and this is the bootdown animation I ended up using. Simple but clean, works just fine -
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=17492332#post17492332
AndroidAutobot said:
Funny... I was JUST about to come on here to address this issue. Had the exact same thing just happen to me. What you have is a simple problem with permissions being set incorrectly. Super easy fix.
Using root explorer, navigate to the bootdown animation , mount as r/w, longpress the boot down animation, select "permissions" and make sure it looks like the picture I'm attaching to this post. That should do it =) Let me know if that worked.
Oh yeah, and this is the bootdown animation I ended up using. Simple but clean, works just fine -
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=17492332#post17492332
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will re-download the boot animation I wanted and let you know how it went, thanks!
EDIT: nope, just threw me into a boot loop
so there is no way to use Boot Animation Changer, or Absolute System to change our boot animations? I like to change mine once a week,....
how about getting a bootsound, any one know how to do that?
---------- Post added at 06:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:59 PM ----------
yellowjacket1981 said:
so there is no way to use Boot Animation Changer, or Absolute System to change our boot animations? I like to change mine once a week,....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was able to download my bootanimations from both of these apps, but I still had to move them manually..no biggie...anyword on if the down animation change worked?

Are there any boot animations available for the sensation yet?

I've seen numerous threads about changing the animations for boot and shutdown on android phones, but I've also seen that the majority are made for older handsets with smaller screens. Are there many available that will work okay in full screen on the sensation, along with functioning sounds?
Ones I've seen so far that caught my eye are the R2-D2 one and the dos style one, but would they work okay on the sensation, or would the sizes be all wrong?
Also, what's regarded as the easiest way to apply them? I'm rooted, but don't know if you can install the zip via clockworkmod recovery or if you have to use adb to apply them instead. Or if there are any easier alternatives like an app on the market or something.
You put the bootanimation.zip in system/resources.
Sent from my TripNMiUI Pyramid using xda premium
Can I do that with ES file explorer? And have any been made the correct size for the sensation's screen yet?
StuartTheFish said:
Can I do that with ES file explorer? And have any been made the correct size for the sensation's screen yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my sig you have a guide how to change bootanimation.
Right, I've found on my phone the boot and down animations are stored in the system/customize/resource folder, so it was simply a case of drag and drop. ES file explorer wouldn't seem to let me get into the root folder, so I'm using root explorer now instead and it works a treat. And it seems that the existing animations available on the net simply get resized, so that's great. Just got to find some good ones now, I remember seeing a thread with loads of previews and download links somewhere...
StuartTheFish said:
Right, I've found on my phone the boot and down animations are stored in the system/customize/resource folder, so it was simply a case of drag and drop. ES file explorer wouldn't seem to let me get into the root folder, so I'm using root explorer now instead and it works a treat. And it seems that the existing animations available on the net simply get resized, so that's great. Just got to find some good ones now, I remember seeing a thread with loads of previews and download links somewhere...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me know if you find that thread. So would the boot animation replace the white HTC splash screen or just the animation that comes after it?
webmaster said:
Let me know if you find that thread. So would the boot animation replace the white HTC splash screen or just the animation that comes after it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Splash screen is pretty easy to change, there's a thread somewhere about it in this forum.
I'm not sure if I saw a thread on changing bootup animation though.
StuartTheFish said:
Right, I've found on my phone the boot and down animations are stored in the system/customize/resource folder, so it was simply a case of drag and drop. ES file explorer wouldn't seem to let me get into the root folder, so I'm using root explorer now instead and it works a treat. And it seems that the existing animations available on the net simply get resized, so that's great. Just got to find some good ones now, I remember seeing a thread with loads of previews and download links somewhere...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a thread in the EVO 3D forum for bootanimations.
Sent from my HTC Sensation on Coredroid!
Cheers, I'll go have a look. And yeah I wouldn't mind changing or removing the splash screen too, it's way too bright!
EDIT:
Think I found it: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=708173

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