Related
1. GPL-Violation
i think that movikun is right. I do not have rights to give my binary to anyone before I would post my sources.
and I am not sure if I have rights to determine the time I post my sources too.
see movikun's reply here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=6047882&postcount=2
so I decide to stop posting anything temporarily. thank you movikun, you teach me a lesson.
there are many devices running a .29 kernel now, they are all formal/official distributions but their sources have not open yet.
and after HTC release their .29 binary for 32A and HERO, if they don't release the sources immediately and you think it violate the GPL, please kick their ass. you will get what you want from there.
2. what I had done.
I did little things as someone said. that's TRUE. the most time I spent, were just looking into the sources, and try to understand everything. if one get enough understandings, there are not many things to do.
we have a working kernel, proper device specified files and configurations, you can find them all in msm-kernel .29/.32 and htc-kernel .27. everyone could make same changes what I did, if he have proper skills.
I had not took a look at others works, it's unnecessary and it may have noise with other's tweaks. so it doesn't make sense that I must post my sources just because they had posted theirs.
in fact, in a programmer's view, I never think these works are much valuable.
3 why I don't release my sources.
a) I know we won't get any contribution except different binary version if I would posted my patches at current. these binaries just make things more complicated.
though you can't get my sources, but if you take a look at android/HAL sources on Google's repo and Qualcomm's site, you will find something valuable about problems we faced.
but no one except me works on that. I don't believe in some people who named everything they can name. I won't work with them, or let them get my works so easily, unless they would have made some real contribution for our community.
b) after months I had posted my kernel, yongzi posted his patch. but how many people care about his work? everyone just remember something like XXkernel. what are these XXkernels?
I don't like that. I am not someone like yongzi. it's a game for me: I want to see if I do not post my patches, could these people get things done by themselves? I have shown what could be done at least, now it's our heroes's turn. they won't have any excuse to make their great named kernel staying with old radio anymore.
I am not aiming at users and ROM devs, I am talking about someone made their brand on a kernel they mashed up. if they named it as XXkernels, they should provide something special, but not a normal kernel with others patches.
even Ubuntu won't name the kernel they used as "UbuntuKernel", though they did much more. but it happened in our community. yes GPL don't prevent that, but I don't want these named kernels to include my work.
c) when I had posted the kernel binary, GPS could not work in some ROM. some people just said that the bug is in the kernel, and they didn't have the kernel sources.
now, we all get GPS working by replacing a different libgps.so, with same kernel binary.
how can you expect me to work with these people? they even don't want to understand anything, just try to mash things up and name it. if it doesn't work, all faults belong to others. and if you ask them something they have known, they never response. yes, they obeyed the GPL with their "release".
you could think they are good. but personally, I won't encourage their behaviors. the only way I can choose, just refuse to share my sources. if I have other choices, I won't be so disagreeable.
--------------
the .32 kernel is deleted temporary.
First off, let me commend you for coming clean, and at least trying to explain yourself, and not just getting angry and slurring those criticising. Thank you.
However, you seriously misunderstand the GPL. It is NOT up to you to decide if the license applies to you or not, dependent on how many changes you made. Normally i would just link to the license and scream "rtfl!", but I do NOT want this to turn into a flamewar. However, before i begin let me be clear, i am ONLY talking about the linux kernel. The rest of android is licensed under MIT, and sense bit are propietary. And it's only the Linux kernel i'm concerned about. So, let's go:
- You get the source from google/htc/motorolla/someone else. It is licensed under to you under the GPL. Which means you must abide by it, or not use the code.
- You modify it for you personal needs. This is permitted, and encouraged. You do not need to distribute anything, since it's only for you personal use.
- You've decided you want to pass along the binaries to your friend, with your changes. AT THIS VERY MOMENT you MUST give him the source code, and this is NOT NEGOTIABLE. He has every right to get the source code, just as you did when you got the source code from google, and thats because you made changes to GPL code. GPL is viral and it was deisgined SPECIFICALLY to do JUST THAT.
Also, another error that you make, is that you think that you can make a non-gpl release. Such a thing doesn't exist. You cannot change the license of GPL code. Once code is GPL, it STAYS GPL.
And yes, HTC was VERY late on numerous occasions with it's sources. We know that. However, that's not an excuse. Do you kill people just because there are murders on the world? Of course not, because they're wrong. GPL-Violations is already informed and working on getting the 32A 1.2 sources, and if it comes to that, they'll work on that too. However, that does NOT give you the right to whithold your sources.
To summarize : either you don't release the sources to the kernel, admit you're breaking the GPL, stop distributing your 2.6.29 and 2.6.32, or you put up a tarball/github somewhere, and the community will gladly accept it. The choice is yours.
P.S. This has made me, and a couple of other close devs feel extremely distastefull. The Magic scene is loosing developers to the N1 extremely fast, and it's just sad that we have to fight each other to play by the rules.
#teamdouche
sanpei, we all know what its like to work for this community. You release something and people blame you for any little bug and also never give you credit.
Despite this, I really hope you decide to post your sources, it would great to have and there are lots of people who could do great work with it. The point of this community to work together and not withhold your work because you want to be the only one with it.
Honestly, I just want to ask where did you get the information needed to create the AMSS 6355 patch or where did you obtain that code?
bcrook said:
sanpei, we all know what its like to work for this community. You release something and people blame you for any little bug and also never give you credit.
Despite this, I really hope you decide to post your sources, it would great to have and there are lots of people who could do great work with it. The point of this community to work together and not withhold your work because you want to be the only one with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just as an outsider who lurks but really does not post anything usefull. I find the majority of the posters are very thankful on this forum. The problem is, for every 15 thank you's the one flame will be heard more than all the gratitude.
I think you should just ignore the detractors and focus on the thankful people. Pissy people will always make a bigger fuss than a happy one, yet the happy ones are the ones you need to keep happy. The unhappy ones can go to hell.
movikun said:
First off, let me commend you for coming clean, and at least trying to explain yourself, and not just getting angry and slurring those criticising. Thank you.
However, you seriously misunderstand the GPL. It is NOT up to you to decide if the license applies to you or not, dependent on how many changes you made. Normally i would just link to the license and scream "rtfl!", but I do NOT want this to turn into a flamewar. However, before i begin let me be clear, i am ONLY talking about the linux kernel. The rest of android is licensed under MIT, and sense bit are propietary. And it's only the Linux kernel i'm concerned about. So, let's go:
- You get the source from google/htc/motorolla/someone else. It is licensed under to you under the GPL. Which means you must abide by it, or not use the code.
- You modify it for you personal needs. This is permitted, and encouraged. You do not need to distribute anything, since it's only for you personal use.
- You've decided you want to pass along the binaries to your friend, with your changes. AT THIS VERY MOMENT you MUST give him the source code, and this is NOT NEGOTIABLE. He has every right to get the source code, just as you did when you got the source code from google, and thats because you made changes to GPL code. GPL is viral and it was deisgined SPECIFICALLY to do JUST THAT.
Also, another error that you make, is that you think that you can make a non-gpl release. Such a thing doesn't exist. You cannot change the license of GPL code. Once code is GPL, it STAYS GPL.
And yes, HTC was VERY late on numerous occasions with it's sources. We know that. However, that's not an excuse. Do you kill people just because there are murders on the world? Of course not, because they're wrong. GPL-Violations is already informed and working on getting the 32A 1.2 sources, and if it comes to that, they'll work on that too. However, that does NOT give you the right to whithold your sources.
To summarize : either you don't release the sources to the kernel, admit you're breaking the GPL, stop distributing your 2.6.29 and 2.6.32, or you put up a tarball/github somewhere, and the community will gladly accept it. The choice is yours.
P.S. This has made me, and a couple of other close devs feel extremely distastefull. The Magic scene is loosing developers to the N1 extremely fast, and it's just sad that we have to fight each other to play by the rules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you are right. thank you for this lesson
for discussions:
I think I have a workaround on this: if I claim a organization, and our members can get my binary, and this organization never distribute anything to the world out of it. then it will not violate the GPL.
wesgarner said:
Honestly, I just want to ask where did you get the information needed to create the AMSS 6355 patch or where did you obtain that code?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you already have all things as I have.
in fact, I think you could make the patch in 1 or 2 days if you would think about how things work seriously.
sanpei said:
I think you are right. thank you for this lesson
for discussions:
I think I have a workaround on this: if I claim a organization, and our members can get my binary, and this organization never distribute anything to the world out of it. then it will not violate the GPL.
you already have all things as I have.
in fact, I think you could make the patch in 1 or 2 days if you would think about how things work seriously.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have your binary and everyone on xda has it
we want the source for it and you refuse
you are a good coder im sure but you dont share the OSS spirit many of us do obviously - we just want everyone to share the code and give credit where credit is due
do you see people ripping off cyanogen for his kernel? they modify and give credit to cyanogen and this is the SPIRIT of the GPL (thanks for your work bcrook on cm kernel)
same with wes - thanks for all your work too wes - hopefully we can get NR kernel over from you soon - love your old radio version that was compiled
your above comment proves you just use FOSS and dont abide by the rules
dont release anything in the future if u dont have sources
thanks
edit: looking at your OP i dont believe you grasp OSS and the liscense
to release anything to the public can be done w/o source
the liscense states that if someone requests the source you must provide it (lots of request for your source)
HTC COMPLIES BECAUSE IF ASKED THEY WILL RELEASE
second to ahkmsk - i looked at your thread and honestly if you dont want to develop for a device you dont have then DONT
your roms are always half cooked and rarely updated / fixed - personally the only DAILY rom you released was your superD port (daily meaning i can use it on a daily basis and not be hampered by bugs or lost functionality)
maybe you should wait to own a device before you develop so you are motivated to release fully functioning roms and not half baked sense roms based on dumps
you guys are the queens of drama...
sanpei said:
I think you are right. thank you for this lesson
for discussions:
I think I have a workaround on this: if I claim a organization, and our members can get my binary, and this organization never distribute anything to the world out of it. then it will not violate the GPL.
you already have all things as I have.
in fact, I think you could make the patch in 1 or 2 days if you would think about how things work seriously.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or as the beauty of the dev community, share
Of course I always give credit where credit is due - you wouldn't be disincluded
I have all of the code and have cleaned it up nicely only one bug left in it for audio - if you would like you could look at the commits and see if u see my (probable) typo
bcrook said:
sanpei, we all know what its like to work for this community. You release something and people blame you for any little bug and also never give you credit.
Despite this, I really hope you decide to post your sources, it would great to have and there are lots of people who could do great work with it. The point of this community to work together and not withhold your work because you want to be the only one with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never said I won't release the sources forever. I just feel uncomfortable many people did things in such a way.
so if they have troubles, I don't want this trouble to be resolved by me.
and not to put too fine a point on it, I find that there not so many people who could do some serious work with the kernel, if they just wait for someone to provide the correct patches.
they should try to understand what they MUST understand. after this, we would believe that they could do something valuable, but not just name things already exists.
alan090 said:
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wesgarner said:
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my request is very simple:
create a real project which belongs to community only, do not call it with any uncommon name.
I don't think that cm-kernel, WGKernel, or sanpei kernel do really exist. all of these are just normal linux kernel, with some public patches and little changes.
we should not name the kernel binary we release to users too. because what we did just too trivial to mention if we compare these works with real kernel development. and some option tweaks are absolute nothing.
(you could name the ROM releases)
and we should promise that we will work in this project in the future, and we won't make a named kernel again, unless you rewrite more than 1/10 codes of the kernel and make it real different from a common kernel.
then, I will work with you guys together, you will find that I am not so idiotic as you may think now.
sanpei said:
you already have all things as I have.
in fact, I think you could make the patch in 1 or 2 days if you think about how things work seriously.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh for god's sake, if you know the solution, why don't you just TELL us what to do?? Or better yet, produce a kernel patch? Stop playing this annoying "I know something you don't, tee-hee, figure it out yourself!" game of yours.
I don't have much against you personally and I didn't want to get involved in this at all, because I really didn't give that much to Android community myself in the first place (and it's not because I wouldn't want to), but this selfish attitude of yours is annoying the hell out of me really (to put it mildly). What good is it to know something and sit on it selfishly for months instead of sharing it so others can benefit from it? And why not in exchange let others help YOU figure out the things you seem to struggle with, whenever it is because you're busy or simply because you don't know the solution, which happens to any of us sometimes, even the brightest? Isn't that the whole point of joining a community in the first place?
If everyone in the Android community was following your example, there would most likely be no community at all by now. There would just be a bunch of people like Cyanogen or Wes posting about what great things have they done with their phones that they won't allow others to reuse. What a community feeliing...
If you don't want to release something, don't, that's fine by me, I don't care that much as others do about you following GPL or not (although I really should, it exists for a reason), but if you decide so, then please also stop boasting to others about all those awesome things you have and won't give them. It doesn't make you look wise, it just makes you look like a wiseass.
You're also saying you don't like that people are splicing ROMs together with bits and pieces of other ROMs, yet instead of setting an example on how to do it right all you do is give people your kernel binary (and I mean the .29 in your ROMs, not just the .32 you've shared here earlier today) instead of kernel source. What good is the kernel binary if people can't modify it and/or compile it themselves as they should? If someone wants to make a ROM for 32A new radio, they pretty much have to do exactly what you dislike - splice your kernel binary with some other ROM and hope for the best. The effect is that you've been deliberately slowing the 32A community's progress for months now, because of...of what, exactly? Fame? The feeling of uniqueness? The community is already weakening as the many are moving to N1, why the hell would you want to weaken it even more and intentionally by denying others access to what you have available? What's the point? Unless you really don't have the sources as some people are implying, but then, why don't simply confess and be done with it with style?
I really don't get this at all.
On a separate but related note, if devs in general don't like the hacks among us (such as myself ) cooking ROMs by taking bits and pieces from everyone and splicing them together, then please let us know. I don't want to post the little I have done if it will upset the majority of devs.
Unfortunately as Case just stated, I personally have felt the need to try (as lame as my efforts may seem to the far more knowledgeable devs) to put ROMs together for the 32a Magic community and myself even if they have some bugs. We just don't have any other option at this point if we want to go with the new radio.
The majority of posters seem to always give credit where it is deserved when taking from devs.
sanpei said:
my request is very simple:
create a real project which belongs to community only, do not call it with any uncommon name.
I don't think that cm-kernel, WGKernel, or sanpei kernel does really exist. all of these are just normal linux kernel, with some public patches and little changes.
we should not name the kernel binary we release to users too. because what we did just too trivial to mention if we compare these works with real kernel development.
(you could name the ROM releases)
and we should promise that we will work in this project in the future, and we won't make a named kernel again, except you rewrite more than 1/10 codes of kernel at least.
then, I will work with you guys together. you will find that I am not so idiotic as you think now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think your an idiot sanpei
I just think we all have a little ways to go here
If you are willing to work on a community kernel with WG im sure all the people involved in porting/rom building will be happy to make you proud of your work
sure people like bcrook and others would be happy to contribute as well
what we just want is you to work with us - not for us
i know i will be happy to work with a new kernel on porting
i will also look into rom cooking more and work with other members to release awesome roms based on 32a community kernel
we just want to work together right
Case_ said:
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
giant_rider said:
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have already said that I am NOT aiming at ROM devs. the ROM is full filled with your personal styles. that's why people love your ROM. and do you think the kernel works is more difficult or valuable than what you did? absolutely NO.
I am just talking about the kernel. every named kernels are nothing different essentially. they are all one thing and they all have same patches. would you copy Cyanogen's ROM, just install/remove some apps, and name it as yours?
and I don't feel I am wise, uniqueness or somewhat, I just want to struggle with these behaviors. so I refuse to share my work with any named kernel.
the only way to prevent them from getting my patches, just do not post the sources until they are really work together, at a common project as things should go.
Case_ said:
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and if all of you think what I did just slowing your progress, OK , I will QUIT. anyway, all of you will get HTC's kernel in next months.
and may I remind you, before I had posted the binary, most people had thought that it's impossible to let msm-kernel work with new radio. at least, they know it could work now. make your efforts, it's not so late.
btw, there are not any spiritual needs what I could get from these works, except the understandings on how these devices work. I have more important things in my life. I just did things on my way. that's all.
you are right on one thing. I shouldn't talk about all these bull-****. if I just had taken the binary from others who you don't know and they couldn't release their sources for some reasons, all of you will be satisfied.
so everybody here, I am just a LIAR . what you have got is STOLEN by me from somewhere. what I said above just my EXCUSEs. the fact is: I DO NOT have the sources
to me it's simple
your feelings could be understood
but once you release the binary to the public
you have to release the source code according to GPL
you may want to define the word 'public'
but you never want to redefine GPL license
that's it
alan090 said:
I don't think your an idiot sanpei
I just think we all have a little ways to go here
If you are willing to work on a community kernel with WG im sure all the people involved in porting/rom building will be happy to make you proud of your work
sure people like bcrook and others would be happy to contribute as well
what we just want is you to work with us - not for us
i know i will be happy to work with a new kernel on porting
i will also look into rom cooking more and work with other members to release awesome roms based on 32a community kernel
we just want to work together right
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
first, thank you for your kind words.
and I hope that other developers could make the patches soon, then I don't need to steal something from somewhere anymore.
you may not get the patches from me, because I am not sure if I can steal sources.
sanpei said:
my request is very simple:
create a real project which belongs to community only, do not call it with any uncommon name.
I don't think that cm-kernel, WGKernel, or sanpei kernel do really exist. all of these are just normal linux kernel, with some public patches and little changes.
we should not name the kernel binary we release to users too. because what we did just too trivial to mention if we compare these works with real kernel development. and some option tweaks are absolute nothing.
(you could name the ROM releases)
and we should promise that we will work in this project in the future, and we won't make a named kernel again, unless you rewrite more than 1/10 codes of the kernel and make it real different from a common kernel.
then, I will work with you guys together, you will find that I am not so idiotic as you may think now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey Sanpei,
First of all I wanted to say thanks for the work you have done for 32a! I really appreciate it - it is something that I cannot do and have no knowledge of!
Secondly, I can understand the issue you have with the naming of the Kernel given that its more just tweaks to the linux kernel that is being done and not a whole new Kernel re-write. However, I think it is still necessary to give it some sort of a name for version tracking and to make sure that people know which version of the Kernel is being discussed / used.
So how about this: For the Kernel that you and others collectively work on for the community why don't we give it a generic name that is not specific to any one developer? We could call it "XDA32a Kernel" or something, that way we can track changes to our community Kernel and if something goes wrong or if there are bugs, people don't point the finger at any one developer/coder.
What do you think?
novat said:
Hey Sanpei,
First of all I wanted to say thanks for the work you have done for 32a! I really appreciate it - it is something that I cannot do and have no knowledge of!
Secondly, I can understand the issue you have with the naming of the Kernel given that its more just tweaks to the linux kernel that is being done and not a whole new Kernel re-write. However, I think it is still necessary to give it some sort of a name for version tracking and to make sure that people know which version of the Kernel is being discussed / used.
So how about this: For the Kernel that you and others collectively work on for the community why don't we give it a generic name that is not specific to any one developer? We could call it "XDA32a Kernel" or something, that way we can track changes to our community Kernel and if something goes wrong or if there are bugs, people don't point the finger at any one developer/coder.
What do you think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with a generic name.
every binary release should provide correct commit code. they will give all the information we need in a build.
but you should talk to other developers. I just a thief and I can't get sources
Awesome Well I can't code or anything but I am a software tester by profession, and so I have some idea of project management... Maybe I could help get our 32a devs together to work on a joint kernel project?
Who would you suggest I contact to try to get together on a kernel dev team? Yourself, wez, cursor, any others?
Ok guys, it's been brought to my attention that my post was
1. Cantankerous.
2. Seemingly disrespectful of devs great work on here.
3. Taken too seriously for being an internet forum.
I would like to say sorry, and explain what I mean I tihnk it would be awesome to pull together the necessary funding for our very talented developers to create an XDA exclusive, completely original ROM. I'm not sure if it is possible, but something that is just for the Thunderbolt alone and isn't sense, isn't AOSP, isn't MIUI, and DEFINITELY not like Motorboat... I mean Motorblur. I think we really are on to something with the work that the Dev's are doing with taking different roms and porting them/using other roms as bases and then building from them; lets see what we can do to completely change the way that this stuff is done(if possible) by polling ideas(not unreasonable wishlists) and putting it all together. Possibly coordinating between Team BAMF, Chingy, and some other the other recognized DEV's.
What does everyone else think?
htcdesirezgeorge said:
I'm not sure if it is possible, but something that is just for the Thunderbolt alone and isn't sense, isn't AOSP, isn't MIUI, and DEFINITELY not like Motorboat...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it isn't sense/blur/touchwiz, it is AOSP. Miui is just modified AOSP (with no sources given back), just like all the other roms not sense/blur/touchwiz are also based on AOSP. You do know what AOSP means right? Android Open Source Project as in the android operation system that is the basis to all android phones just modded by the OEMs. What you're asking is similar to saying:
"Hey, I'm bored with linux, unix, osx and windows, can we make a new operating system totally not based on any of those for our computers?"
Perhaps rephrase your question one more time in a way that makes more sense? Third time is a winner
yareally said:
If it isn't sense/blur/touchwiz, it is AOSP. Miui is just modified AOSP (with no sources given back), just like all the other roms not sense/blur/touchwiz are also based on AOSP. You do know what AOSP means right? Android Open Source Project as in the android operation system that is the basis to all android phones just modded by the OEMs. What you're asking is similar to saying:
"Hey, I'm bored with linux, unix, osx and windows, can we make a new operating system totally not based on any of those for our computers?"
Perhaps rephrase your question one more time in a way that makes more sense? Third time is a winner
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya got a point, I actually didn't know that! BUT, regardless of how its phrased, what do ya think it would require to do somethig like I mentioned? I, personally would love to see something excitingly new put out here. Like with the miui project, any chance of people putting their heads together to figure it out?
You've got OS's and you have UI's. Obviously it is entirely possible to custom build a UI, but its FAR more difficult than porting one over or mixing and mashing parts of Sense together. UberBAMF is definitely something new and out of the box. That's more radical than anything I ever expected... Or have ever seen elsewhere. UIs do a lot to sell a device, so its worth it for HTC or Samsung to invest in building one. Not so much for a team of volunteer devs.
htcdesirezgeorge said:
Ya got a point, I actually didn't know that! BUT, regardless of how its phrased, what do ya think it would require to do somethig like I mentioned? I, personally would love to see something excitingly new put out here. Like with the miui project, any chance of people putting their heads together to figure it out?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Chances are unlikely to get a new user interface geared to only one phone built from the ground up from the android source by a team for a few reasons:
1) Lack of like-minded (knowledgeable) developers for one device that are currently free. Developers are very opinionated (just from my own experience even if they don't want to admit it). What should/shouldn't go into it would be a mess to deal with and debate alone, especially since the opinions of developers are generally not the same as those that don't develop. The ones already developing most likely don't want to give up their current projects as well. Basically, the developers that want to develop already have their projects and most treat them like it's their "baby" and most likely not willing to give them up or put them on hold. That moves into issue #2
2) Time. It would take considerable amount of time and organization to do that. Probably to get something stable that's original would take longer than most people would keep their Thunderbolt. Guys that work on their phones do this part time for fun as well and that combined with other side projects would press for time.
3) True developers & designers. There's a big difference between hacking some already made stuff to work with things and actually writing object oriented software from scratch. Obviously some guys putting stuff out for the thunderbolt are true developers that code professionally and others are just hacking around making things work done by others. Both have their uses, but you need real development for something like this and I don't think there's enough of those willing.
Forgot to add that the only way change happens is to build interest, so don't let my pessimistic observations detour anyone from posting their thoughts and ideas in this thread
Hi all,
Please let us know what you think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-q5CEfiyQk&feature=youtu.be
Thanks!
SamsungJohn
Twitter:SamsungJohn
How about release some source or at the very least something that will help devs speed things up with ice cream? We paid for the phone, we want everything we can get.
+1
very interesting...
sign me up Scotty
Somewhat interesting, I have registered on the new Developer site, however it seems to be geared more towards app developers, with little of use to those doing platform work (AOSP bringups including Cyanogenmod porting, kernel development, etc.)
There are no IC datasheets, and no source code for test firmwares such as UCKL2 for the Infuse (SGH-I997).
Stickied for the time being
Thanks for the news. I will check it out to see if it is a good choice for beginning devs. It might also be interesting for me to learn more specifically regarding my Samsung phone.
does it mean,
some people develop ROM or app together?
make money?
you don't make ROM for money, if you do, you don't belong in XDA
AllGamer said:
you don't make ROM for money, if you do, you don't belong in XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said!
AllGamer said:
you don't make ROM for money, if you do, you don't belong in XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True. But it is a chance to get know and apreciated. And that could lead to money!!!
Entropy512 said:
Somewhat interesting, I have registered on the new Developer site, however it seems to be geared more towards app developers, with little of use to those doing platform work (AOSP bringups including Cyanogenmod porting, kernel development, etc.)
There are no IC datasheets, and no source code for test firmwares such as UCKL2 for the Infuse (SGH-I997).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AllGamer said:
you don't make ROM for money, if you do, you don't belong in XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very well said! It seem like Samsung have just discovered all the free work force to produce code that is much better than their own. Now they wanna tap into this, without giving anything of value in return.
How about dropping some spec-sheets on the HW level and some source code to their drivers, instead!?
Damnit, i'll have to learn some programming now! To the Batmobile!
+1 for "spec-sheets on the HW level and some source code to their drivers"
..especially for devices like Galaxy 3 (i5800/i5801), which (apparently), you are not going to update now on.
Sounds Cool
sounds pretty interesting, ill check out the youtube video.
Thanks for the news.
Would be nice if the video talked specifically about developing ROMs, especially AOSP-based...
useful info
merge samsung and htc rom?
hi i somewhat enjoy my samsung charge except for the predictive txt sucks i want exactly how the htc has theirs can anyone give me some info on merging these things i want to build or tweak a rom for the charge also currently downloading all the sdk stuff about to run over to samsung dev site and see if i can get into that also.
Great
great stuff, keep up the good work!
Seems like a great initiative from Samsung
So exciting
http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/0...rnel-source-code-including-that-of-the-one-v/
EDIT: http://dl4.htc.com/RomCode/Source_and_Binaries/doubleshot-gb-crc-2.6.35-f3a1982.tar.gz
Sent from my DoubleShot Lite using Tapatalk 2
ac3theone said:
so exciting
http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/0...rnel-source-code-including-that-of-the-one-v/
sent from my doubleshot lite using tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssssssssss
Soo.... Does anyone think we could see some pure AOSP action now? Or someone could update the kernel for CM7? As you will see in general someone -whom I suspect is not alone - would love an AOSP ROM on our HTC Doubleshot.
Maybe this kernel isn't that good as we suppose...
Nusferatu said:
Maybe this kernel isn't that good as we suppose...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well.... What did u expect? we don't have an ICS ROM in our future that we have been made aware of, and it is truly great news as this is something that has made many a dev stray away from this device - now we might be able to get CM7 stable - and others to work off of CM7 such as blahblah
Good news nevertheless
We need to get CM7 STABLE ASAP
We may be late in the running, but that doesn't mean we still can't get merged into the main tree
Nusferatu said:
Maybe this kernel isn't that good as we suppose...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its worse than you thought... The source code was released a really long time ago. This is just an updated kernel, so the real reason for lack of development isn't because the source code wasn't available. :/
michaelmab88 said:
Its worse than you thought... The source code was released a really long time ago. This is just an updated kernel, so the real reason for lack of development isn't because the source code wasn't available. :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Updated source is awesome though. Tried to get it earlier and couldn't - can't on shift and will be working straight until Friday afternoon so won't have a chance to try again for a few days.
Any percieved lack of development is due to people not putting any effort into it - everyone who cries about a lack of development should do something about it instead of waiting for someone else to do so.
Why come here if you don't want to get into dev, worse, come here and complain about yourself not doing anything? Kinda silly.
Whenever I see people complain about a lack of development I wonder why they would basically make fun of themselves? It gives me a laugh at their expense...
Sent from a digital distance.
Yeah i just got the source downloaded because it matches the new ota I'm running now, I've never seen what a dual core source looks like, or if I'll even be able to compile a kernel for this device, I've only compiled a few for the EVO shift, which was straight forward with a little help from my boy drob...who knows o may get it to boot ha-ha.......nope I fudged something in my toolchain It's broke....again.....LOL
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2
strapped365 said:
Yeah i just got the source downloaded because it matches the new ota I'm running now, I've never seen what a dual core source looks like, or if I'll even be able to compile a kernel for this device, I've only compiled a few for the EVO shift, which was straight forward with a little help from my boy drob...who knows o may get it to boot ha-ha
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/62701184/arm-eabi-4.4.3.zip
That link is for the toolchain you need, i've been hosting it on dropbox for a while until I get it over to a more permanent host.
I can walk you through it later if you want.
I have it written up on how to set up your linux environment and make changes, including versioning instructions, just haven't found the time to polish off a part of it and add it to the dev reference yet.
Got a whole space reserved for the how to from start to finish on making kernels for the doubleshot, and i've already walked people through it with no kernel dev experience so if you've done it for another device it'll be a cakewalk.
I'm eating breakfast now and gotta run out to another job, and going straight from there to dodgeball practice, then work again tonight and from there right to the job i'm about to do again tomorrow this time, so tomorrow night i'm doubtless going to sleep - maybe as early as saturday evening I could go through it with you on IRC if you are interested.
Otherwise I hope to have that in the dev ref next week, work permitting.
Blue6IX said:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/62701184/arm-eabi-4.4.3.zip
That link is for the toolchain you need, i've been hosting it on dropbox for a while until I get it over to a more permanent host.
I can walk you through it later if you want.
I have it written up on how to set up your linux environment and make changes, including versioning instructions, just haven't found the time to polish off a part of it and add it to the dev reference yet.
Got a whole space reserved for the how to from start to finish on making kernels for the doubleshot, and i've already walked people through it with no kernel dev experience so if you've done it for another device it'll be a cakewalk.
I'm eating breakfast now and gotta run out to another job, and going straight from there to dodgeball practice, then work again tonight and from there right to the job i'm about to do again tomorrow this time, so tomorrow night i'm doubtless going to sleep - maybe as early as saturday evening I could go through it with you on IRC if you are interested.
Otherwise I hope to have that in the dev ref next week, work permitting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I might have my little one on Saturday night so that maybe a no go for then, the tool chain I currently have is 4.4.1, because anything newer for the speedy breaks a ton during the compile.....I changed some commands around for ****s and giggles and got a zimage in arch/arm/boot so I split it with the ota ramdisk and I'm just gonna try....if that goes south I'll setup your tool chain....thanks blue your like the DoubleShot dictionary....
Also I'm gonna grab one of your kernel zips for test flashes if that's ok
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2
Blue6IX said:
Updated source is awesome though. Tried to get it earlier and couldn't - can't on shift and will be working straight until Friday afternoon so won't have a chance to try again for a few days.
Any percieved lack of development is due to people not putting any effort into it - everyone who cries about a lack of development should do something about it instead of waiting for someone else to do so.
Why come here if you don't want to get into dev, worse, come here and complain about yourself not doing anything? Kinda silly.
Whenever I see people complain about a lack of development I wonder why they would basically make fun of themselves? It gives me a laugh at their expense...
Sent from a digital distance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey I'm not complaining, and I am working on it! I just have to balance between school and work and learning how to build cm7/cm9 from source.
You can check out a little bit of what I've been working on github.com/mafischer
michaelmab88 said:
Hey I'm not complaining, and I am working on it! I just have to balance between school and work and learning how to build cm7/cm9 from source.
You can check out a little bit of what I've been working on github.com/mafischer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol no worries my friend, was a general comment and not aimed at you in particular, just a perspective I wanted to put out there and you were the first opportunity to do so.
I still haven't found the time to get git set up and learn how to use it - that whole life getting in the way of living thing. Given you have git going that makes you a more responsible dev then I in my book -
@ strapped: all my work available is a contribution to the open source community at large, and the members of XDA in particular. If any of it can be useful, especially as a teaching tool, I wholeheartedly encourage it!
Sent from a digital distance.
Where did all of you come from?
Never knew there was this many people working on the Doubleshot in the background...
gtmaster303 said:
Where did all of you come from?
Never knew there was this many people working on the Doubleshot in the background...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been here since i preordered my doubleshot... I just haven't had time to work on much of anything, so there's no point in advertising to the community that I'm gonna work on things that may or may not ever get finished. I don't want to spread false hope or anything.
I am however, graduating in may; I'm going to be working over at walmart isd for a summer internship, and I should have more time on my hands once school is over!
How integrated is the Sense stuff into the kernel? As I understand it, we've had trouble removing the Sense underpinnings from the operating system to get it working with things such as Sixaxis. I'm aware that this is entirely a lack of understanding on my part.
I would quite love to get involved in building a ROM myself, perhaps even setting up CM9 from scratch. I just have no idea how to get started. I've mucked around with custom kernels and embedded linux (not android) devices in the past, but I'm not sure how that knowledge would apply to this system. I also have no history of proper programming languages or anything like that. I'm vaguely familiar with how to compile things with the ARM toolchains.
I'm also a tad nervous about bricking the device by writing to a memory location that I really shouldn't be touching.
Kanerix said:
How integrated is the Sense stuff into the kernel? As I understand it, we've had trouble removing the Sense underpinnings from the operating system to get it working with things such as Sixaxis. I'm aware that this is entirely a lack of understanding on my part.
I would quite love to get involved in building a ROM myself, perhaps even setting up CM9 from scratch. I just have no idea how to get started. I've mucked around with custom kernels and embedded linux (not android) devices in the past, but I'm not sure how that knowledge would apply to this system. I also have no history of proper programming languages or anything like that. I'm vaguely familiar with how to compile things with the ARM toolchains.
I'm also a tad nervous about bricking the device by writing to a memory location that I really shouldn't be touching.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry for quoting the whole post just to address one thing, but in regards to sixaxis I'm sure it's a safe bet that if one were to simply replace the stock bluetooth stack with the one kornyone used for cm7 in my bulletproof rom it would work fine, and I doubt much other, if any modification would be necessary.
I haven't had time to try, and truthfully i'd rather build my own so am kinda intentionally not trying - I am more interested in the project then just jumping into a solution.
It really depends on what you are trying to do - some sense things can be replaced with relatively little effort, other things are so interwoven it would take considerable effort and time to unravel, reverse engineer and implement a new solution.
A lot of people have been working on different parts of unravelling sense since back in august, and around the middle of that month we got s-off and really started digging in.
There is a considerable knowledge base lurking here to address this kind of stuff if people make it known they are working on things - dig back through the history of the device here at XDA and you can catch a glimpse of it and get some direction on who you can approach when you hit a roadblock, depending on what kind of roadblock it is.
It's better for us as a community to have that kind of knowledge out on the public forum, but there's much more here then what face value suggests.
I've been trying to get that kind of stuff and a general 'start here' knowledge base built in the developers reference stickied here in dev, reading through that would be a good place to start getting oriented on devving for the dubleshot.
I just go through some crazy work cycles and sometimes can't be around much for a time here and ther, so my contributions come in groups and gaps.
Sent from a digital distance.
michaelmab88 said:
I've been here since i preordered my doubleshot... I just haven't had time to work on much of anything, so there's no point in advertising to the community that I'm gonna work on things that may or may not ever get finished. I don't want to spread false hope or anything.
I am however, graduating in may; I'm going to be working over at walmart isd for a summer internship, and I should have more time on my hands once school is over!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't matter whether or not you finish. Status updates would be nice though. At least that way people can know what you're up to, and they may even be able to help you and vice versa.
No one here is demanding an ETA or even a completion at all. We're all in for the fun of it.
Either way I think I can safely speak for everyone when I say, we're excited to see what you got cooking
Blue6IX said:
Sorry for quoting the whole post just to address one thing, but in regards to sixaxis I'm sure it's a safe bet that if one were to simply replace the stock bluetooth stack with the one kornyone used for cm7 in my bulletproof rom it would work fine, and I doubt much other, if any modification would be necessary.
I haven't had time to try, and truthfully i'd rather build my own so am kinda intentionally not trying - I am more interested in the project then just jumping into a solution.
It really depends on what you are trying to do - some sense things can be replaced with relatively little effort, other things are so interwoven it would take considerable effort and time to unravel, reverse engineer and implement a new solution.
A lot of people have been working on different parts of unravelling sense since back in august, and around the middle of that month we got s-off and really started digging in.
There is a considerable knowledge base lurking here to address this kind of stuff if people make it known they are working on things - dig back through the history of the device here at XDA and you can catch a glimpse of it and get some direction on who you can approach when you hit a roadblock, depending on what kind of roadblock it is.
It's better for us as a community to have that kind of knowledge out on the public forum, but there's much more here then what face value suggests.
I've been trying to get that kind of stuff and a general 'start here' knowledge base built in the developers reference stickied here in dev, reading through that would be a good place to start getting oriented on devving for the dubleshot.
I just go through some crazy work cycles and sometimes can't be around much for a time here and ther, so my contributions come in groups and gaps.
Sent from a digital distance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been trying to go through the dev reference that you posted and track down as much scattered information as I can, but I'm still not quite sure what I'm doing. Alas.
Regarding bluetooth: would the gingerbread stack be compatible with ICS?
gtmaster303 said:
It doesn't matter whether or not you finish. Status updates would be nice though. At least that way people can know what you're up to, and they may even be able to help you and vice versa.
No one here is demanding an ETA or even a completion at all. We're all in for the fun of it.
Either way I think I can safely speak for everyone when I say, we're excited to see what you got cooking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well what I'm currently up to is making a stable version of cm7 for the doubleshot. I have made lots of progress as far as learning all the tools necessary to compile android from source, which is a relatively simple task. The not so simple part is trying to put together like a puzzle, the source code from other devices. I've hit some roadblocks and I'm currently asking some devs for help, but while I'm at it I guess I can ask for help here on xda.
michaelmab88 said:
Well what I'm currently up to is making a stable version of cm7 for the doubleshot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeehaaa!
With Kitkat being ported to so many older devices because of the lowered system requirements, I figured its time we get one on the ThunderBolt. I by no means can do this on my own, so that is why I am starting this thread. I will try to reach out to as many devs as possible to get this going. Just a little about myself, Ive done basic ROM developement on a few devices, the most notable being the 2 generations of the Nexus 7. Over the past few months I have greatly expanded my knowledge and capabilities with android. The extent of my coding knowledge is basic Java, a little bit of C++, and arduino, which is why I need help for this. I see this as both a learning opportunity for me as well as a chance to participate in expanding the Thunderbolt dev community. I'm mainly looking for somone who can help with kernel and radio develpement, and someone who can help with porting the actual software over. The reason I need these people is because I have no experience in kernel development, and as for the actual developement of a KitKat rom, I'm sure its more complex then downloading KitKat source and throwing in the Thunderbolt device trees. I've been researching the topic and havent found much useful information. If you feel you can help support the effort please contact me.
Email: [email protected]
Developers willing to contribute:
(will add as people offer)
frap129 said:
With Kitkat being ported to so many older devices because of the lowered system requirements, I figured its time we get one on the ThunderBolt. I by no means can do this on my own, so that is why I am starting this thread. I will try to reach out to as many devs as possible to get this going. Just a little about myself, Ive done basic ROM developement on a few devices, the most notable being the 2 generations of the Nexus 7. Over the past few months I have greatly expanded my knowledge and capabilities with android. The extent of my coding knowledge is basic Java, a little bit of C++, and arduino, which is why I need help for this. I see this as both a learning opportunity for me as well as a chance to participate in expanding the Thunderbolt dev community. I'm mainly looking for somone who can help with kernel and radio develpement, and someone who can help with porting the actual software over. The reason I need these people is because I have no experience in kernel development, and as for the actual developement of a KitKat rom, I'm sure its more complex then downloading KitKat source and throwing in the Thunderbolt device trees. I've been researching the topic and havent found much useful information. If you feel you can help support the effort please contact me.
Email: [email protected]
Developers willing to contribute:
(will add as people offer)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im waiting for a long time,thank you a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you can also try to transplant from msm8655 device，thats easier than bulid it.
chongbos said:
im waiting for a long time,thank you a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you can also try to transplant from msm8655 device，thats easier than bulid it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I assume by transplant you mean just try to flash a rom for another device with simmilar specs? (Same MSM8655 CPU, Same amount of ram, etc)
Kitkat would be awesome!
I'll test whatever you throw up here.
That's about all I'm good for. Sorry.
you can try contact santod here, but need register
http://forums.infectedrom.com/forumdisplay.php/79-Thunderbolt-Android-Development
He's last man standing Thunderbolt expert developer...
but i hear He already switch to HTC One project n leave Thunderbolt.
it very exciting news if can be true:good:
Ive contacted a few members who have experience with either porting or the thunderbolt, none of wich have responded as of yet.
her you can try :
http://forum.xda-developers.com/member.php?u=4310221
http://forum.xda-developers.com/member.php?u=4471805
http://forum.xda-developers.com/member.php?u=4395946
hope they reply...
guinzo said:
you can try contact santod here, but need register
http://forums.infectedrom.com/forumdisplay.php/79-Thunderbolt-Android-Development
He's last man standing Thunderbolt expert developer...
but i hear He already switch to HTC One project n leave Thunderbolt.
it very exciting news if can be true:good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Santod was the reason why I loved my thunderbolt. I still have it but rarely use it. Sadly the screen is cracked but it was always a reliable phone.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Xparent ICS Tapatalk 2
I'm sure there are more than a few people who would contribute to the cause of getting AOSP and CM11 on this phone. My old fascinate has it and so do all my other phones since.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
TtWEAK said:
I'm sure there are more than a few people who would contribute to the cause of getting AOSP and CM11 on this phone. My old fascinate has it and so do all my other phones since.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There definitely are, but the difficulty of getting data on AOSP for this device, coupled with the age, current ownership/userbase, and developer interest translates to probably not. It's okay though, it was a great ride while it lasted.