Related
Eclair is nice..mad props to KingxKxlick and Cannon202 but I want my camcorder back, opengl and all that hero goodness. Whoever gets me a working Eclair-Hero rom for my G1 with all the features listed will get $50 US sent via Paypal
Word. We should start a dev prize pool with a chip-in account... winner take all. Didn't someone do that with navigation?
This thread is probably gonna be deleted, but good try.
Didn't somebody make a thread exactly like this earlier....and it got deleted, like this one will.
Listen up you ignorant people.
MOD EDIT: This is uncalled for, you can make your points without insults. Please take care (respect others) when posting. I would edit this out but many members have quoted it in future posts, so not much point.
THERE IS CATEGORICALLY NO WAY TO RECORD, OR PLAY BACK VIDEO ON AN ECLAIR ROM WITHOUT THE DRIVERS.
AND NOBODY EVEN KNOWS IF THOSE DRIVERS EXIST.
SO PLEASE, IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY YOU OFFER TO DEVELOPERS, UNLESS SOMEBODY FINDS THE DRIVERS REQUIRED, WE WILL NEVER HAVE VIDEO ON AN ECLAIR ROM.
King's 2.0 ROM does NOT count as having working video.
I think it's worth a bit more than that.
I'd like working bluetooth so that I can try a Hero rom but if it were possible it would have happened already. Same as if video without drivers were possible. People dont seem to understand that the devs here dont create the OS for our phones they edit open source code that google has released. If google doesnt release the code that is needed for something then the devs here have nothing to work with. Think of it has you bought a piece of hardward to use with you PC but when you plug it in you PC doesnt reconize it. That is because you dont have the correct driver for it and untill you can obtain that driver it will never work.
bolmedias said:
SO PLEASE, IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY YOU OFFER TO DEVELOPERS, UNLESS SOMEBODY FINDS THE DRIVERS REQUIRED, WE WILL NEVER HAVE VIDEO ON AN ECLAIR ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not true.
$50 can buy a fair bit of corporate espionage in a lower-rent country.
$10k can buy a few developer-months in a lower-rent country.
marxmarv said:
Not true.
$50 can buy a fair bit of corporate espionage in a lower-rent country.
$10k can buy a few developer-months in a lower-rent country.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would ask Haykuro or Ncommander. I don't know too much about the above numbers about low-rent countries.
Joe333x said:
I'd like working bluetooth so that I can try a Hero rom but if it were possible it would have happened already.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amen to that.
st0kes said:
Amen to that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can have working BT on 32B Magics/MT3Gs/Voda:
http://www.alldroid.org/viewtopic.php?f=130&t=423&hilit=32A+radio+on+32B
http://www.alldroid.org/search.php?...t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search
Flash the 32A radio and it should work for hero roms.
wtb holy grail for 30GBP /w me
bolmedias said:
Didn't somebody make a thread exactly like this earlier....and it got deleted, like this one will.
Listen up you ignorant people.
THERE IS CATEGORICALLY NO WAY TO RECORD, OR PLAY BACK VIDEO ON AN ECLAIR ROM WITHOUT THE DRIVERS.
AND NOBODY EVEN KNOWS IF THOSE DRIVERS EXIST.
SO PLEASE, IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY YOU OFFER TO DEVELOPERS, UNLESS SOMEBODY FINDS THE DRIVERS REQUIRED, WE WILL NEVER HAVE VIDEO ON AN ECLAIR ROM.
King's 2.0 ROM does NOT count as having working video.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not for nothing thats a little harsh. you calling others ignorant makes you just as ignorant, if not more. also, from what i understand, google did drop the 2.1 aosp code, i dont know about all of it, but its def there. and the drivers do exist 100%. a very close friend of mine (who works for google by the way) was privy to them. i have a fully working, and when i say fully working i mean fully working eclair rom on my POS G1. i can take pics, record, watch you tube vids the whole 9 yards. if i knew how to make a rom and **** id put one out there for you guys, but i dont and at the same time neither i nor my contact are trying to get sued by google or htc. im not sure if the **** is proprietary or not, but im not running any risks and neither is she. maybe someone with a fancy new nexus can reverse engineer the camcorder, like NCommander did with the camera (mad props by the way!!!), but until then looks like only the very few who have the necessary bits and pieces will be able to enjoy 2.1 (which honestly aint that great. i much prefer cyans 1.6). ive had a complete 2.1 rom on my phone since tuesday and so far so good. no problems at all running nice and smooth. its out there guys, you just gotta be patient or get a nexus
fh47qu said:
not for nothing thats a little harsh. you calling others ignorant makes you just as ignorant, if not more. also, from what i understand, google did drop the 2.1 aosp code, i dont know about all of it, but its def there. and the drivers do exist 100%. a very close friend of mine (who works for google by the way) was privy to them. i have a fully working, and when i say fully working i mean fully working eclair rom on my POS G1. i can take pics, record, watch you tube vids the whole 9 yards. if i knew how to make a rom and **** id put one out there for you guys, but i dont and at the same time neither i nor my contact are trying to get sued by google or htc. im not sure if the **** is proprietary or not, but im not running any risks and neither is she. maybe someone with a fancy new nexus can reverse engineer the camcorder, like NCommander did with the camera (mad props by the way!!!), but until then looks like only the very few who have the necessary bits and pieces will be able to enjoy 2.1 (which honestly aint that great. i much prefer cyans 1.6). ive had a complete 2.1 rom on my phone since tuesday and so far so good. no problems at all running nice and smooth. its out there guys, you just gotta be patient or get a nexus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why don't you post the Zip file on here?
EDIT: Read the "Sued" part.
*sigh*..
bolmedias said:
Didn't somebody make a thread exactly like this earlier....and it got deleted, like this one will.
Listen up you ignorant people.
THERE IS CATEGORICALLY NO WAY TO RECORD, OR PLAY BACK VIDEO ON AN ECLAIR ROM WITHOUT THE DRIVERS.
AND NOBODY EVEN KNOWS IF THOSE DRIVERS EXIST.
SO PLEASE, IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY YOU OFFER TO DEVELOPERS, UNLESS SOMEBODY FINDS THE DRIVERS REQUIRED, WE WILL NEVER HAVE VIDEO ON AN ECLAIR ROM.
King's 2.0 ROM does NOT count as having working video.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would like to direct your attention to the NOUVEAU project: http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/
This is an open source driver built out of knowledge gained by REVERSE ENGINEERING the nvidia binary linux driver for their desktop GPUs....
At this current stage, they have achieved rudimentary 3d acceleration.
So in conclusion, nothing is impossible.
Ace42 said:
I would ask Haykuro or Ncommander. I don't know too much about the above numbers about low-rent countries.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ncommander might be able to, he seems to be a decent coder.
Haykuro *definitely* won't. He isn't a coder, he's just a hack -- responsible for more bricks than anyone else and at the same time, responsible for fracturing the community romcookers into the "stockSPL" and "deathSPL" groups -- which is a VERY VERY VERY bad thing.
Auctions?
So I'm browsing right.....
scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, and I believe it is twice i ran across a topic like this with either $ or Paypal in the title for the exchange of a fix to a phone and/or rom....hmmm, is it me or has the developer forums overnightly became an Ebay/Craigslist type of categorylol
lbcoder said:
Ncommander might be able to, he seems to be a decent coder.
Haykuro *definitely* won't. He isn't a coder, he's just a hack -- responsible for more bricks than anyone else and at the same time, responsible for fracturing the community romcookers into the "stockSPL" and "deathSPL" groups -- which is a VERY VERY VERY bad thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know Haykuro is responsible for bricks its a fact that the deathSPL can cause a brick but when used correctly it is a very useful tool that allows ROM makers to create larger and better ROMs. I think most devs that create ROMs that do not require the death spl only do so because the majority of people dont want to flash the death spl there for more people will use there rom if it does not require it.
i suggest a new section on the forums be opened for paying developers to do specific tasks and services... it can be named "developers in demand"
bolmedias said:
Didn't somebody make a thread exactly like this earlier....and it got deleted, like this one will.
Listen up you ignorant people.
THERE IS CATEGORICALLY NO WAY TO RECORD, OR PLAY BACK VIDEO ON AN ECLAIR ROM WITHOUT THE DRIVERS.
AND NOBODY EVEN KNOWS IF THOSE DRIVERS EXIST.
SO PLEASE, IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY YOU OFFER TO DEVELOPERS, UNLESS SOMEBODY FINDS THE DRIVERS REQUIRED, WE WILL NEVER HAVE VIDEO ON AN ECLAIR ROM.
King's 2.0 ROM does NOT count as having working video.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can always write drivers....
Ace42 said:
You can have working BT on 32B Magics/MT3Gs/Voda:
http://www.alldroid.org/viewtopic.php?f=130&t=423&hilit=32A+radio+on+32B
http://www.alldroid.org/search.php?...t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search
Flash the 32A radio and it should work for hero roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for that info I would have never known. unfortunately the BT fix 32b.rar link is down. do you have it?
fh47qu said:
not for nothing thats a little harsh. you calling others ignorant makes you just as ignorant, if not more. also, from what i understand, google did drop the 2.1 aosp code, i dont know about all of it, but its def there. and the drivers do exist 100%. a very close friend of mine (who works for google by the way) was privy to them. i have a fully working, and when i say fully working i mean fully working eclair rom on my POS G1. i can take pics, record, watch you tube vids the whole 9 yards. if i knew how to make a rom and **** id put one out there for you guys, but i dont and at the same time neither i nor my contact are trying to get sued by google or htc. im not sure if the **** is proprietary or not, but im not running any risks and neither is she. maybe someone with a fancy new nexus can reverse engineer the camcorder, like NCommander did with the camera (mad props by the way!!!), but until then looks like only the very few who have the necessary bits and pieces will be able to enjoy 2.1 (which honestly aint that great. i much prefer cyans 1.6). ive had a complete 2.1 rom on my phone since tuesday and so far so good. no problems at all running nice and smooth. its out there guys, you just gotta be patient or get a nexus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Post YouTube Video or it isn't true
Man, I'm so frustrated.
On other forums some people have mistakenly thought I'm against flashing custom ROMs. I'm not. I'd flash a custom ROM in a heartbeat. In fact, the reason I hang out here is I'm watching for "That ROM". I'm just not comfortable with the state of things on the Captivate. Here's the deal... it seems every single ROM is a compromise. I'm not talking about differences in themes, or what apps are included, etc... I'm talking basic functionality. Sometimes it's little things, sometimes it's big things... but always, you need to give stuff up. And I'll get the response, "yeah well stock is buggy too, so what's your point?". You know... sometimes the little things count. The details add to the experience. Maybe we want all the little things to actually work. Maybe you don't care about bluetooth, but I do. Etc.
Bluetooth. Haptic feedback. Battery life. Cell reception. GPS. Stability. Performance. Voice quality/Audience support. Pick the 3 you don't care about and are willing to give up.
Frustrating.
And a lot of it seems to come down to these "modem" files. Dozens floating about... everyone has their favorite like they have a favorite color. And they themselves come with compromises... use one, and A B and C work but X Y and Z don't. Use another, and it's the other way around... or maybe there's D E and F now. What works for one person doesn't work for another... and yet these are the same model phones. Oh, but wait... now it's passe to say "every phone is different". Like they are? They're the same hardware. But now we just accept for some reason that every Captivate is some random assembly of different chips and so using a ROM is an assumed matter of modem-roulette and deciding what features you want and what ones you're willing to sacrifice.
Why is this "ok"?
It's important to mention at this point that this is absolutely nothing against the hard-working developers here. I don't doubt for a moment that they are doing their absolute best with what they have available to them. It's not that, it's the culture... the community... the mindset. Are we being hypocrites? I mean, if we're just accepting now that every Captivate is unique hardware and no one ROM/modem will work ideal on all of them, why do we hold Samsung to a higher-standard like they themselves could ever produce an official and universal 2.2 firmware for the Captivate where everything actually works for everyone?
Something's not right here. I don't doubt that people get different results with different files... but these are different environments, and the testing not done consistently or scientifically. I don't think it's appropriate to act like the differences come from varying hardware when it's far more-likely that it's differences in other more-random things. Some people are in a primarily 1900 MHz area, some primarily in an 850MHz area. GPS is also environment-specific and someone with a modem that offers below-average GPS performance might report that the GPS is "amazing" simply because they're in an ideal spot. The hardware is the least likely aspect to vary. Surely there must be a solution... a better answer... a potential for a modem that actually works amazing for everyone. Where all bands are supported, GPS works amazing, Audience chip is supported, etc etc.
I just felt the need to vent. I'm not sure what the solution here is... I just feel we've gotten to casual just "accepting" a situation as something it's not, and shouldn't be. One shouldn't have to play modem-lotto just to get basic decent performance from their ROM, or decide what basic features they're willing to sacrifice. I know this is a huge discouragement for me, and why I'm still on stock. I want to flash so badly... but every ROM thread I read through I eventually hit at least one (if not several) deal-breakers, and the casual acceptance of them is just frustrating.
Anyone feel the same way? Thoughts?
I think your over analyizing.....im a flash junkie and I've flashed everything on the forums....I don't use my phone for business so almost every rom I use has everything I need functional...haptic feedback is not a reason for me not to use a rom but camera is.....along with flashing roms I mix matched different kernels and modems.....its all preference.....with the modem situation I just flash one and test it out until I have an issue then move onto the next...I thought jk4 was the best for me until I decided to try jk3. I've noticed I get reception in areas where I didn't with jk4....so ill test this one out for awhile....you can't sit and read until u read that u found the best......u just have to test it out for yourself...it sucks but that's what u get. I feel things wont get better for us until we get our official froyo release by att. Well have our noise cancellation chip working as well as a modem built for att usa. I had better cell service with captivate roms n modems then I do with i9000 ones but the i9000 roms are leagues ahead of any captivate ones
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Did you try Serendipity? It seems to do quite well on every item in your list.
I have not flashed for mostly the same reasons as you. It seems that every combination has different things that work and things that do not work. I want every function of my phone to work properly. That includes hardware noise cancellation and proper bluetooth support, which seem to be a major issue on i9000 ROMs/kernels/modems. My biggest issue with Captivate ROMs/kernels/modems is the apparent lack of support for bluetooth voice dialing. Now it is a fair argument that bluetooth voice dialing does not work on the AT&T 2.1 ROM, but it is not a supported feature of 2.1. It is a supported features of 2.2, so why shouldn't I (we) expect it to work? If a feature that is supposed to work in 2.2 does not work, that doesn't give me the best feeling about flashing the ROM.
I came over from the Windows Mobile side and I flashed custom ROMs on my Fuze without thinking twice, but there were never core or standard features of the phone or OS missing in the ROMs I flashed. I had bluetooth + voice dialing, good battery life, good cell reception, good working GPS, extremely good stability, great performance (for the hardware), and good voice quality with working noise cancellation in all the ROMs I ran.
I think that overall the devs here are doing a good job, and I think things will improve after the release of 2.2 sources for the captivate, but it seems that right now, there is a compromise involved in any of the custom ROMs.
I can accept the fact that the current ROMs don't meet my expectations, but when people say, "just start flashing" to people like myself who have higher expectations, it gets a little old. The attitude that only people willing to accept these compromises should be reading/contributing to the xda-developers forum is also annoying. I think it is great that there are people working on custom ROMs and there are people willing to run them with the compromises they have to make, but that does not mean that everyone should just be willing to make those compromises and if they are not willing they should not post.
I have made very few posts in the Captivate forum, I guess it could be said that I have been lurking and reading up on each new custom ROM as it comes out, waiting for one that seems to meet my expectations. I have not been vocal, or complained about the fact that we need to make compromises. But others that ask questions about whether certain things work, seem to get flamed and told to just accept the way things currently are, or they are completely ignored. If the devs don't want to answer questions such as, "does bluetooth voice dialing work," or "how is bluetooth voice quality in this ROM," then they should put this type of information directly in the first couple of posts. The newest Cognition ROM thread has this type of information and I greatly appreciate that DG included it. For most ROMs you can't find out if certain items work properly without reading the first 10-20 pages of posts.
Maybe the main issue for people like me (with higher expectations from my phone) is that good information about what works and what does not work often does not float to the top of the ROM dev threads. I started using xdandroid on my Fuze as my first introduction to Android and each phone that it ran on had a thread and on the first page was a listing of each major functional piece (sound, camera, bluetooth, etc) and whether or not it was working yet. Each developer can do as they choose, but if the status of functional items and known bugs was listed in the first page, it would save on questions and some of the less than helpful responses that the questions cause.
People also have to remember that only a leaked/unfinished Captivate 2.2 ROM has been made available as a base for some ROMs so there's no other choice for a complete Froyo ROM without resorting to i9000 ROMs. Expecting things to work from a unfinished leak is a bit different from having high standards.
GPS is also broken for some people whether they're on a stock ROM or not to begin with, devs can't magically make it work for everyone.
Cell reception is not 100% determined by a ROM, if I flash the "most amazing bestestst rom ever" and live in a remote forest with lead leaves, reception might just suck a little because it mainly depends on location.
No phone is the same believe it or not, maybe unless it's an iPhone. If you want something that works as it should perfectly, you probably shouldn't be flashing ROMs, because they are essentially in infinite beta until a dev doesn't want to work on it anymore. Either stick to the stock ROM, get an Aria or some other unlocked phone, or even an iPhone since that's probably most stable thing out there right now.
The ROM threads grow dozens of pages every hour, and posts will always get overlooked whether they are important or not. It still amazes me that people get confused when they start seeing an H instead of 3G. This is a development community and has several thousands and thousands of users at any given time. It is busy.
tysj said:
People also have to remember that only a leaked/unfinished Captivate 2.2 ROM has been made available as a base for some ROMs so there's no other choice for a complete Froyo ROM without resorting to i9000 ROMs. Expecting things to work from a unfinished leak is a bit different from having high standards.
GPS is also broken for some people whether they're on a stock ROM or not to begin with, devs can't magically make it work for everyone.
Cell reception is not 100% determined by a ROM, if I flash the "most amazing bestestst rom ever" and live in a remote forest with lead leaves, reception might just suck a little because it mainly depends on location.
No phone is the same believe it or not, maybe unless it's an iPhone. If you want something that works as it should perfectly, you probably shouldn't be flashing ROMs, because they are essentially in infinite beta until a dev doesn't want to work on it anymore. Either stick to the stock ROM, get an Aria or some other unlocked phone, or even an iPhone since that's probably most stable thing out there right now.
The ROM threads grow dozens of pages every hour, and posts will always get overlooked whether they are important or not. It still amazes me that people get confused when they start seeing an H instead of 3G. This is a development community and has several thousands and thousands of users at any given time. It is busy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the American SGS phones, I was not trying to suggest that the developers can "fix" the GPS (though it is worth noting that Da_G has made some good progress http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=881941).
I don't completely disagree with many of your points, which is why I am still running the stock ROM. If I had two phones, I would be willing to beta test unfinished software and ROMs, but since I only have 1 phone that I expect to work (or more accurately, my company who pays for it expects it to work) I have not flashed any of the current firmwares that are available.
I think cell reception has a lot more to do with the Radio/Modem than the ROM. If you have a working modem and that modem functions with the ROM, then it should give you the same reception. I think one of the main points the OP was making was that there is no apparent consistency, and some modems work with some ROMs, and not with others. It does not even seem to be accurate to say that any i9000 modem will work with any i9000 ROM, as some combinations cause poor voice quality or other issues.
I do disagree with your statement that "no phone is the same." Any Captivate in the same batch/build should have identical hardware and should function identically (assuming Samsung has good quality controls in place). There is the potential for slight differences between batches, but I can't believe that any of those differences is significant enough to cause software running on the phones to behave differently. If that is the case, there is no way that Samsung can release a working Froyo build, or even a working Eclair build that would function as intended on every captivate. If Samsung was unable to produce identical products consistently, they would be out of business because none of their products would function as intended consistently.
As far as "expecting things to work from a unfinished leak is a bit different from having high standards," I don't think it is unreasonable for better visibility to what works and what does not work in the first page of a ROM thread. I am not saying that I expect everything to work 100% on all ROMs, especially without 2.2 sources, and I am not saying I expect the devs to be able to test every possible things, but I don't think it is unreasonable to hope that as bugs or problems or ROM/Kernel/Modem combinations that do not work are discovered, that information could be made more accessible without reading 100 pages of a ROM thread.
Hopefully most of this is just growing pains as Android is evolving and as we wait for 2.2 sources for the Captivate. For Windows Mobile, much of the OS and functionality of the OS was pretty much set between ROMs. The biggest differences were in the frameworks (Sense vs. Non-Sense, etc) and theming of the ROMs. That is why I have said in the past that if we could get a solid, working AOSP ROM with all drivers, etc for the SGS, it would give a good base for additional ROM development.
[NOTE]: Mods please move this thread to general Q&A if you find suitable, posting here because I think question comes more towards development side.
So now the question is:
Here are things which I know (mostly read somewhere / heard from friends etc.)
I'm seeing CM7 progress and time to time devs saying can't go ahead because Wimax driver / GPS driver is proprietary (what exactly does it mean?). While as I was discussing with friends I came to know Android only provide HAL so by logic all drivers should be proprietary or no?
I'm quite sure I've not understood something properly so I wanted to know
1. are drivers available only by manufacturer and Android only provide HAL?
2. If yes then what would it take to fetch those drivers and try writing HAL?
3. If no then how can one start writing own drivers?
I know its not an easy process at all, but I was curious so asking here.
I would appreciate all inputs, and if anyone want to share links I am up for some reading
Thanks
wis3m0nkey said:
So now the question is:
I'm seeing CM7 progress and time to time devs saying can't go ahead because Wimax driver / GPS driver is proprietary (what exactly does it mean?). While as I was discussing with friends I came to know Android only provide HAL so by logic all drivers should be proprietary or no?
I'm quite sure I've not understood something properly so I wanted to know
1. are drivers available only by manufacturer and Android only provide HAL?
2. If yes then what would it take to fetch those drivers and try writing HAL?
3. If no then how can one start writing own drivers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android does not provide a "HAL" as in the Windows (NT) sense. Android is an operating environment running on the Linux kernel, and the programs (apps) running in Dalvik (Java-based).
The issue with CM/other generic AOSP-based build is twofold. First the driver to interface with the underlying has to be compiled into the Linux kernel. Luckily for most of us, the majority of smartphones are based on a few common chipsets (Qualcomm MSM etc.), so chances are you can find the source for a similar phone, and try to fiddle with the source to make it work. This also means that esoteric hardware (ie. WiMax) has a lot harder time getting the driver working.
Second is what allows the Android apps to use the driver to communicate with the hardware. This is where the issues like GPSone rears its ugly head, as it seems each manufacturer likes to do it's own way, so unless you are basing things on the mfg's Android builds, it's almost impossible to get it to "talk" to the driver.
In the end, that's why builds based on official/leaked builds have a lot easier time gettin everthing working because both kernel and userland "bits" are there.
-- Starfox
Starfox said:
Android does not provide a "HAL" as in the Windows (NT) sense. Android is an operating environment running on the Linux kernel, and the programs (apps) running in Dalvik (Java-based).
The issue with CM/other generic AOSP-based build is twofold. First the driver to interface with the underlying has to be compiled into the Linux kernel. Luckily for most of us, the majority of smartphones are based on a few common chipsets (Qualcomm MSM etc.), so chances are you can find the source for a similar phone, and try to fiddle with the source to make it work. This also means that esoteric hardware (ie. WiMax) has a lot harder time getting the driver working.
Second is what allows the Android apps to use the driver to communicate with the hardware. This is where the issues like GPSone rears its ugly head, as it seems each manufacturer likes to do it's own way, so unless you are basing things on the mfg's Android builds, it's almost impossible to get it to "talk" to the driver.
In the end, that's why builds based on official/leaked builds have a lot easier time gettin everthing working because both kernel and userland "bits" are there.
-- Starfox
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok so if I understood this properly :
Driver (which resides in kernel) services can be accessed by Dalvik.
And apps access services provided by Dalvik.
So in this case drivers for android would be developed in same fashion as for any other linux based system. Only requirement would be to check for manufacturer data sheet (if not source code) to tamper with.
Am I correct?
And is there a general development thread specifically for epic 4g?
Thanks
wis3m0nkey said:
Ok so if I understood this properly :
Driver (which resides in kernel) services can be accessed by Dalvik.
And apps access services provided by Dalvik.
So in this case drivers for android would be developed in same fashion as for any other linux based system. Only requirement would be to check for manufacturer data sheet (if not source code) to tamper with.
Am I correct?
And is there a general development thread specifically for epic 4g?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The difficulty is that manufacturers don't seem to release data sheets for proprietary (customized by the manufacturer) hardware...
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
styles420 said:
The difficulty is that manufacturers don't seem to release data sheets for proprietary (customized by the manufacturer) hardware...
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aww man isn't it bad? I mean its same as what Apple tried doing with architecture specific Macs even Windows is trying with secure boot :-/ (But this is with phones compared to computers)
Why can't they just let devs work? I understand them having proprietary drivers but they should provide all required data to write one as well..
Well anyways I figure it won't matter even complaining about it. Anyways thanks guys I'll see if I can find any more info on manufacturer specific code.
wis3m0nkey said:
Aww man isn't it bad? I mean its same as what Apple tried doing with architecture specific Macs even Windows is trying with secure boot :-/ (But this is with phones compared to computers)
Why can't they just let devs work? I understand them having proprietary drivers but they should provide all required data to write one as well..
Well anyways I figure it won't matter even complaining about it. Anyways thanks guys I'll see if I can find any more info on manufacturer specific code.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This isn't a Mac vs PC thing.
This is a chip thing. Providing full disclosure of the register set makes some manufacturers nervous. Primarily because with some components, enough information needs to be provided such that you could potentially copy the device. Or at least features of it.
Qualcomm and Broadcom are very bad at this. They don't release anything unless it's under at least 5 NDAs.
I think u misunderstood me. I didn't say about mac vs pc. I was trying to give example about secure boot and macs rejecting to support all hardware.
Yes I understand chips can be duplicated but if its manufactured by samsung only then they shouldn't have problem
wis3m0nkey said:
I think u misunderstood me. I didn't say about mac vs pc. I was trying to give example about secure boot and macs rejecting to support all hardware.
Yes I understand chips can be duplicated but if its manufactured by samsung only then they shouldn't have problem
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it gets duplicated, it is no longer manufactured by Samsung only, and therefore is a problem.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
seeing as android is a linux based operating system i dont understand why it wouldnt be possible to actually simply build the drivers from scratch. Ive done things like this for Wificards for my debian laptop as well as video drivers for intel chips that dont have linux based drivers. if they work the same way as the linux kernel does wouldn't it be logical to be able to do something similar?
metalblaster said:
seeing as android is a linux based operating system i dont understand why it wouldnt be possible to actually simply build the drivers from scratch. Ive done things like this for Wificards for my debian laptop as well as video drivers for intel chips that dont have linux based drivers. if they work the same way as the linux kernel does wouldn't it be logical to be able to do something similar?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's the chip that is proprietary - those wifi cards use relatively well-documented chip sets, our phones do not. Unless you're aware of another device that uses the -exact- same chipset, with driver source code? (The question is rhetorical)
Feel free to guess at the unique opcodes and such, but trial and error will take a really long time
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
I'm glad to see some answers on this topic as I was curious about it as well. Can anyone comment on how past drivers have been hacked? E.g. how the Evo got Wimax working in cyanogen? Did they just trial and error the hell out of it until everything worked or did someone get inside information?
Some info
I'm pretty sure devs already have looked at it however anyone else who is wondering:
http://www.chipworks.com/en/technic.../teardown-of-the-samsung-epic-4g-smart-phone/
Samsung CMC730S WiMax baseband processor with SDRAM
That is wimax chip for epic 4g. I couldn't find more info that the chip itself, will report again if I come close to anything
So apparently Samsung SWC-E100 XOHM ExpressCard also uses same Wimax chip.
I'm checking if there are linux drivers available for the card.
http://www.wireless-driver.com/samsung-swc-e100-wimax-windows-driver-utility/
styles420 said:
It's the chip that is proprietary - those wifi cards use relatively well-documented chip sets, our phones do not. Unless you're aware of another device that uses the -exact- same chipset, with driver source code? (The question is rhetorical)
Feel free to guess at the unique opcodes and such, but trial and error will take a really long time
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But the thing is that the samsung Galaxy S line of phones use what i can only imagine to be similar pieces of hardware. Wouldnt it make sense to be able to modify the drivers for say the fascinate`s camera or wifi for example to fit the epic. I know the keyboard isnt included in those phones but for the most part lines of phones tend to use similar if not the same hardware if they are made by the same companies. All it would take is to have the drivers for one or two of the phones in the same line and you would be able to practically guess the opcodes etc for the hardware signatures and make drivers accordingly. I mean a good example of this was when the fascinate drivers were used to boost our GPS or the fact that our CM7 is based off of the nexus S`version of CM7. It simply means that we have very similar if not the same hardware in most places. Now obviously if the phone is a random standalone piece with completely unique hardware then of course the drivers would be impossible to build with out the right specs and opcodes etc.
Actually on a side note, Ive been thinking about why the companies dont make a database for the drivers for each android phone effectively makeing each phone a nexus phone. It would allow for a version of android to be molded onto the phone with ease using a cookie cutter design making the creation of a newer phone easier and the support of older ones more feasible.
metalblaster said:
But the thing is that the samsung Galaxy S line of phones use what i can only imagine to be similar pieces of hardware. Wouldnt it make sense to be able to modify the drivers for say the fascinate`s camera or wifi for example to fit the epic. I know the keyboard isnt included in those phones but for the most part lines of phones tend to use similar if not the same hardware if they are made by the same companies. All it would take is to have the drivers for one or two of the phones in the same line and you would be able to practically guess the opcodes etc for the hardware signatures and make drivers accordingly. I mean a good example of this was when the fascinate drivers were used to boost our GPS or the fact that our CM7 is based off of the nexus S`version of CM7. It simply means that we have very similar if not the same hardware in most places. Now obviously if the phone is a random standalone piece with completely unique hardware then of course the drivers would be impossible to build with out the right specs and opcodes etc.
Actually on a side note, Ive been thinking about why the companies dont make a database for the drivers for each android phone effectively makeing each phone a nexus phone. It would allow for a version of android to be molded onto the phone with ease using a cookie cutter design making the creation of a newer phone easier and the support of older ones more feasible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I guess sprint is only carrier using Wimax and above mentioned Wimax chips are only used in Epic. So to say this phone looks quite unique in that perspective though I think Nexus S 4G uses same chip, I couldn't find evident link pointing to it will report back as I do
rocket321 said:
I'm glad to see some answers on this topic as I was curious about it as well. Can anyone comment on how past drivers have been hacked? E.g. how the Evo got Wimax working in cyanogen? Did they just trial and error the hell out of it until everything worked or did someone get inside information?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't speak for the Evo Wimax people, but usually manufacturers that want to obscure their register set package up all the real meat in a userspace library, and distribute an open-source middleman kernel driver that basically relays commands through the middleman to the hardware (getting past the GPL).
Nvidia sorta does this, but they just link against the middleman directly and say F*** the GPL, even though it's still argued to be a violation.
Anyhow, for reverse-engineering, you can generally hack the middleman and record the 1's and 0's. Then you can attempt to decipher the data format based on what data changes, and the size of the frames. The stuff that doesn't change you can play back.
Of course, having any information about the device whatsoever helps a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if a hardware manual leaked for the Evo WiMax chip.
This is how a lot of the reverse-engineering was done on the HTC Vogue, the old device I developed for.
My life prevents me from helping at the moment, I hope to contribute on CM7 when things settle down.
jnadke said:
I can't speak for the Evo Wimax people, but usually manufacturers that want to obscure their register set package up all the real meat in a userspace library, and distribute an open-source middleman kernel driver that basically relays commands through the middleman to the hardware (getting past the GPL).
Nvidia sorta does this, but they just link against the middleman directly and say F*** the GPL, even though it's still argued to be a violation.
Anyhow, for reverse-engineering, you can generally hack the middleman and record the 1's and 0's. Then you can attempt to decipher the data format based on what data changes, and the size of the frames. The stuff that doesn't change you can play back.
Of course, having any information about the device whatsoever helps a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if a hardware manual leaked for the Evo WiMax chip.
This is how a lot of the reverse-engineering was done on the HTC Vogue, the old device I developed for.
My life prevents me from helping at the moment, I hope to contribute on CM7 when things settle down.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks
However I don't understand most of it.
I've done until now is micro controller programming (say 8051 and similar)
Compiling kernel/FS for running on FPGA and few small boards, it was just compiling so I can set up tool chain and stuff but never actually developed / reverse engineered.
I would like to learn if u can point me to a good source.
wis3m0nkey said:
Thanks
However I don't understand most of it.
I've done until now is micro controller programming (say 8051 and similar)
Compiling kernel/FS for running on FPGA and few small boards, it was just compiling so I can set up tool chain and stuff but never actually developed / reverse engineered.
I would like to learn if u can point me to a good source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fortunately for you, the best book is free.
http://lwn.net/Kernel/LDD3/
Start with Chapter 1, I'd read all of that.
In general, I'd go through every chapter there and read the introductions. Stop once it gets to code. Those parts are irrelevant. The introductions alone are a powerful primer on how Operating Systems communicate with hardware.
Chapter 9: Communicating with Hardware is useful, since you're a hardware background.
Now, hacking android phones doesn't typically involve writing device drivers, but that book does a superb job outlining linux kernel interaction with hardware, which is the base of android. It is probably the quintessential book for anything Linux, and it's free!
jnadke said:
Fortunately for you, the best book is free.
http://lwn.net/Kernel/LDD3/
Start with Chapter 1, I'd read all of that.
In general, I'd go through every chapter there and read the introductions. Stop once it gets to code. Those parts are irrelevant. The introductions alone are a powerful primer on how Operating Systems communicate with hardware.
Chapter 9: Communicating with Hardware is useful, since you're a hardware background.
Now, hacking android phones doesn't typically involve writing device drivers, but that book does a superb job outlining linux kernel interaction with hardware, which is the base of android. It is probably the quintessential book for anything Linux, and it's free!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome, thanks.
I'm not sure how much time it will take me but I'll try my best and probably will bother u some more
If this is in the wrong section please move it instead of deleted it. Thanks y'all are awesome
So, what I want to is make my own Ice Cream Sandwich ROM.
I want to take stock android and:
-Make everything work right (camera, buttons, drivers for proper graphics and stuff, etc)...
-Use a good boot animation (I already have in mind which one)
Stuff like that. Would my old server with a dual dual-core Intel Xeon CPUs (total of 4 cores), 6GB RAM, and RAID SCSI disks be good enough, to compile it? Do I even need to compile it? or just unzip and zip?
Thanks!
PS: can I use Windows or would Ubuntu work better? I've also got a MacBook Air that I guess I could use
I won't touch on the driver thing (simply because it's not an easy thing as you suggest). Not only are there various 'work arounds' for the camera issue... but... eh.
Also, I will say that boot animations are nothing more than a text file and a bunch of images... no compiling done there. Just google around and you'll find the 'needed' format VERY easily... and probably even suggested software to make it easy.
Be careful, as you have a condescending style about how things that are easy but aren't, and aren't easy but are... while you haven't even really done any research. These things... they do not go over well here.
Ok as stated it is not as easy as it sounds. Compiling from source is not easy and making everything work is not easy either as the drivers are not released for this device. As all the source is ported from another device. Some of the best minds on XDA have been working for months trying to get the camera to work but with the new rules to the AOSP source from Google it is a huge undertaking. No longer can you build a full working rom from AOSP as the OEM drivers are no longer included due to being closed source and not released.
There are walk thru videos out there but like the Gentlemens above me said it is not a simple task. If you look at the developers it's a collaboration of several members making a team just for one ROM. But you can play around with several ROMs like I did:
Some Ice Cold Sandwich with a little salt from Redemption and a little pepper from Zues and BOOM my perfect ROM for me. (My Frankenstein)
BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1. Dont get me wrong I'm not saying you can take bits and pieces from different ROMS and create your own and offer it here cause thats stealing from developers without their permission. But only for your enjoyment and PLAY AT YOUR OWN RISK.
2. you can't ask for help from developers when you alter their ROMs.
GOOD GOD!!!! Hope my phone don't die with so much flashing and testing (lmao)
Sorry if I made it sound like I didn't realize how huge of an effort good ROM development is. I do!
However, if I just take AOSP then attach the device drivers then add the features I want, I can release it as mine, right?
I'm bored with web design and development, so I figured hey let me try android stuff!
Maybe I should learn how to make an Android app first I have a feeling my basic Java knowledge won't be enough.
Would it be better to start with that, then progress to the more complicated stuff?
And I appreciate the time you are all taking to answer my random questions
I wish I could make Android apps with HTML, CSS, PHP, and Javascript. LOL!
Reinaldo33897 said:
GOOD GOD!!!! Hope my phone don't die with so much flashing and testing (lmao)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HAHA yeah sometimes I wonder if it's bad for it
But I've dropped it about 20 times and it still works no damage except for a tiny scratch in the screen so I'd say flashing ROMs is much safer for it than dropping it. LOL!
CONSIDER THIS THREAD CLOSED
Let me first be clear: I think it's awesome that a phone like the MyTouch 4g was released at a 2.2 phone and has ended up being upgraded to 4.0.4. Let me also take the time to thank the developers involved in this effort. It's hard work and sometimes it sucks to be a dev, and I thank you.
That being said, there are something like 10 ICS ROMS in the development section right now with any combination of
Sense 4
Stock ICS
MIUI
Themed variations
and what do they all have in common? The camera doesn't work properly, the bluetooth is sketchy, and the whole thing is a little crashy in the soft-reboot sense of the word.
My question is this: Why are we releasing so many variations of the same problem when the first one didn't work correctly anyway?
Especially ...Awesome... . I think it's awesome that you want to release like 5 different ICS ROMS, but what does one bring to the table that the other one doesn't? If I'm totally off base here, let me know, but this is what I see from a ROM flasher prospective.
Anyway, end rant and I'm sorry if I offended anybody.
jbdubbs said:
Let me first be clear: I think it's awesome that a phone like the MyTouch 4g was released at a 2.2 phone and has ended up being upgraded to 4.0.4. Let me also take the time to thank the developers involved in this effort. It's hard work and sometimes it sucks to be a dev, and I thank you.
That being said, there are something like 10 ICS ROMS in the development section right now with any combination of
Sense 4
Stock ICS
MIUI
Themed variations
and what do they all have in common? The camera doesn't work properly, the bluetooth is sketchy, and the whole thing is a little crashy in the soft-reboot sense of the word.
My question is this: Why are we releasing so many variations of the same problem when the first one didn't work correctly anyway?
Especially ...Awesome... . I think it's awesome that you want to release like 5 different ICS ROMS, but what does one bring to the table that the other one doesn't? If I'm totally off base here, let me know, but this is what I see from a ROM flasher prospective.
Anyway, end rant and I'm sorry if I offended anybody.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I realized this too, but hey, they can do whatever they want.
I mean I know why they aren't completely functional and stable, but I'm confused as to why we've became so obsessed with ICS that we have 50 different ICS ROMs and pretty much all of them are the same just with different settings or whatever. That's why I've been on GB sense for like the past week or two.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2
Things in common
As stated-many roms share problems. As a lover of mt4g anything that keeps my phone alive is progress. Sure ics has camera and some other isssues,but as we all should know and have all been told"this is a work in progress". Many folks = many efforts= different outcomes. Not all ics have reboots,not all have "the camera problem" most do but work arounds exist is some cases. We can always go back to gb. Remember when some gb had camera problems? In time all gets worked out. Besides no arm twisting is done to make us use a rom,it's a matter of personal choice. Am content to wait till camera fix is out but will continue to use ics. Thanks to all the fellas who work for free and express their individuality with the work produced. "drive on"
I2IEAILiiTY said:
That's why I've been on GB sense for like the past week or two.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. This is me too.
--sent from my glacier.
trofmoc said:
Not all ics have reboots,not all have "the camera problem" most do but work arounds exist is some cases.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, every ICS ROM in the development forum has the camera problem. The "camera problem" being the total lack of video capture unless you use a third party program and capture in VGA resolution at less than 10 fps. As far as I'm concerned, that means the video camera doesn't work, and there isn't a ROM that's worked around this.
Also, so far I've used at least five different ICS ROMS and all of them seem to have soft reboot problems of some sort. Some worse than others, but its there. Usually having to do with the browser or programs that use the stock browser.
Since a camera don't mean anything to me...I am using sense 4 hybrid, which is suprisingly very stable, minus the camera of course. But my wife on the other hand, has to have a camera, so I put sense 3.5 on hers, which is basically perfect in functionality.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using xda premium
I literally just flashed that Sense 4 Hybrid, and it about blew my ear off with the music on the boot screen.........
lack of a kernel prevents certain hardware from working correctly
however, i do agree that there are WAY too many SIMILAR roms (and some from the same dev, too). itd be nice to try to put all your resources on one AOSP, one AOKP/CM9, and one ICS-Sense.. teamwork! community! linux!
to each thier own, i guess. lets appreciate all the ROMs.. because if we didnt have any devs still working here wed be a lot more annoyed
On the bright side, as fixes are found/created the existing ROMs can be patched and you'll have more functioning ROMs to choose from. Also, these guys went from ports to compiling and then they started modding framework-res.apk's and SystemUI.apk's for theming. Essentially, if they hadn't done all this work their knowledge would not have progressed like it has. Now they will be able to use those skills to continue to benefit the whole community if they choose.
Wow total lack of respect from a NOBODY! Don't worry ill have all my threads closed and good luck with this phone stay on stock for all I care name 1 single thing u have contributed to this community besides u whinning and complaining about everything good luck to this community and the rest of the devs that are still here... This is the last you guys will have heard from me... GOOD LUCK! !
Sent from my ROOTIE TOOTIE FRESH 'N FRUITY GLACIER
Way to go fellas...say goodbye to Awesome. Anyway, do yo guys read the ICS OPs? Here is a nice quote that explains stuff. Bit seriously. Be thankful for ICS....posts like these make us feel unappreciated.
saranhai said:
FAQ - THE BIG PICTURE
What is ICS?
ICS is Ice Cream Sandwich - Google's latest version of Android.
- Some of the very latest phones on the market already have it installed. e.g HTC One series
- Some slightly older phones will eventually be 'upgraded' to ICS e.g Desire HD, but this may be a number of months away, and promised 'upgrades' have sometimes never been delivered at all.
- If / when it does arrive for Desire HD it may not happen for everybody at the same time, sometimes it's carrier by carrier, and finally 'retail' (non carrier branded) handsets that get the upgrade last!
- If / when it does arrive, it will be overlayed with HTC's Sense (some like it, some don't)
- In the meantime, folks are working on getting ICS on your Desire HD BEFORE it's officially released for the phone, with and without Sense (giving you a choice)
So why don't some features work?
Well, the ICS being used on Desire HD is 'taken' from officially released ICS phones like the HTC One range, or 'leaked' ROMS from similar phones.
However, those phones have slightly different hardware and features than the Desire HD - so they aren't exactly the same. This means that parts of the software have to be 'ported' to work on the Desire HD.
OK, so why is porting so difficult?
The Android O/S is 'open source' meaning that anybody can see the actual source code for themselves, and see how it all works. They can modify it and adapt it to suit their needs (good).
Phone manufacturers USE Android in their phones, but they don't have to make all their own 'extra' software open source too. They like to protect their software by keeping it secret (not so good). There are many reasons why they do this, both good and bad, but it makes porting difficult.
When developers don't have access to the source code for parts of a phone, they have to write their own!... this means they have to have highly detailed knowledge of the phone, its hardware and other software components. Sometimes they can try things by trial and error, sometimes they have knowledge from a similar phone, and sometimes they just don't know.
This is the most common issue for 'ported' ROMS. Things like Power Management, Camera, WiFi, GPS etc are the things that make one manufacturer's phone stand out from another, and therefore end up 'secret'.
This does not mean that they will never work, it only means that they take longer to get working.
Who does the porting?
The actual porting is done by surprisingly few people:
- Some guys who know 'inside secrets'
- Some guys who are just great developers but who don't have the secrets
- Some guys who can develop but need a little guidance
- Some of them are 'great guys' helping the community (and keeping their own skills up to date)
- Some of them have other motives (good and bad)
- Some of them form teams to work on different ports
Why don't all the developers work together?
Developers are people - they have all the same issues as everybody else:
- Some like working alone
- Some feel that other developers standards aren't high enough
- Some are trying to fix a specific problem that THEY want fixed
- Some teams have different goals (one team might be aiming for a port that can work on 5 different phones, whilst another team are focused on a single phone. One team may want a totally 'clean' ROM and another want a ROM with lots of customisation options built in)
- Sometimes, people just don't get along with each other
I thought the ROM makers did all this work?
You'd be wrong.
The ROM developers use the ported code to make their ROMs. Sometimes they can choose different components from the various development teams to build a ROM.
Imagine a motor car:
1) The 'developers' make the engine, wheels, steering, chassis etc
2) The ROM Makers build their car choosing the components they need for their ROM
3) The 'Modders' add custom paint colours, fancy headlights, custom interior etc
The 'developers' are not smarter than the ROM makers, and the ROM makers are not smarter than the modders. They just have different roles (and some people do all three roles!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my Sense 4.0 Glacier using XDA Premium.
...Awesome... said:
Wow total lack of respect from a NOBODY! Don't worry ill have all my threads closed and good luck with this phone stay on stock for all I care name 1 single thing u have contributed to this community besides u whinning and complaining about everything good luck to this community and the rest of the devs that are still here... This is the last you guys will have heard from me... GOOD LUCK! !
Sent from my ROOTIE TOOTIE FRESH 'N FRUITY GLACIER
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Though I respect and agree with you I really hope you're kidding because if your not I'm probably gonna cry. How am I supposed to sh*t rainbows now!?
I have half a mind to hurl insults at the OP(Way Off Base) as if I were in a drunken rage. Not only did he offend but he called out a Dev which is uncalled for. You can say sorry for offending someone all you want but your sorrys, and you for a matter of fact haven't done sh*t for our device. I don't believe you have the right to rant seeing as how you have contributed nothing and possibly just cost the MT4G one of its best devs. I hope we still have developers that are not fed up with us.
...Awesome... said:
Wow total lack of respect from a NOBODY! Don't worry ill have all my threads closed and good luck with this phone stay on stock for all I care name 1 single thing u have contributed to this community besides u whinning and complaining about everything good luck to this community and the rest of the devs that are still here... This is the last you guys will have heard from me... GOOD LUCK! !
Sent from my ROOTIE TOOTIE FRESH 'N FRUITY GLACIER
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, damn....
Please mind the collective ego of the Dev's here. It bruises pretty easily. I tried to make the point earlier that all that work is very useful because it hones their skills, but I guess it was already too late. I sincerely hope we haven't lost another one.
Don't forget that, basically the best ICS kernel we have came from a mod that ...Awesome... did on the Tiamat kernel
Also http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1641147
estallings15 said:
Well, damn....
Please mind the collective ego of the Dev's here. It bruises pretty easily. I tried to make the point earlier that all that work is very useful because it hones their skills, but I guess it was already too late. I sincerely hope we haven't lost another one.
Don't forget that, basically the best ICS kernel we have came from a mod that ...Awesome... did on the Tiamat kernel
Also http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1641147
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point I'm trying to make is non of you guys know what goes on behind the scenes you just have people like the OP to complain about any little thing... For example who here's noticed elginsk8r had his own cyanogen kernel on his cm9 Rom?? Who here knows that THEindian is working on the vkernel? Who here knows blackwing and I are trying to compile a kernel for the camcorder to work? Who here noticed if u flash elginsk8r kernel u get semi working camcorder don't say we aren't working together on fixes if u guys knew all and every little thing we all are doing and don't come out publicly and say it doesn't mean we aren't working together because WE ARE because it benefits all of us not just 1 person
Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk 2
...Awesome... said:
The point I'm trying to make is non of you guys know what goes on behind the scenes you just have people like the OP to complain about any little thing... For example who here's noticed elginsk8r had his own cyanogen kernel on his cm9 Rom?? Who here knows that THEindian is working on the vkernel? Who here knows blackwing and I are trying to compile a kernel for the camcorder to work? Who here noticed if u flash elginsk8r kernel u get semi working camcorder don't say we aren't working together on fixes if u guys knew all and every little thing we all are doing and don't come out publicly and say it doesn't mean we aren't working together because WE ARE because it benefits all of us not just 1 person
Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amen. Honestly people. Patience...
my 2¢
I personally didn't think the OP was disrespectful. I think a number of devs are probably feeling similar frustrations even if from a different perspective.
I do think it is up to each user to decide to try new ROMs. If they don't work for you, then its a non-starter - go back to what works for you without complaint.
I also think it is important to remember that there are many different types of users - always. I am a software developer and I hit the same thing in my work. Some people are just looking for a solid ROM - and lack much understanding of the underlying complexity. That they're here at all places them way beyond the average smartphone buyer.
Others are Android jockies - here every day (even every minute) with a lot of their life revolving around ROM dev/swapping. It's probably important to them how they're perceived in this community.
Constructive criticism will and can be received differently by everyone within that spectrum.
Personally, I think it's great to have lots of options - it will end up serving everyone. At the level of experience I have (little!), I have gotten confused when the ROM thread titles are cute and don't indicate what they are - or their lineage. When I dig in and read the threads, there's definitely good ICS options there.
HMMMMM
I DON'T PAY BUT I USE, I DON'T FIX,BUT I COMPLAIN - IF IT DON'T WORK I'M READY FOR A QUICK FIX. TOO MANY CHOICES[somethings wrong]. NOT ENOUGH CHOICES[someone's lazy]. go to any other android forum and see how many folks are interested in mt4g. HARDLY ANY. PLEASE BE GLAD FOR WHAT WE HAVE.
I for one would like to say that I feel almost ashamed, that I use these roms, and I don't say thank you enough. Let me be honest, because at my age, its hard to fall asleep at night, having told a lie. I'm struggling right now, keeping my power on, & feeding my family. I'm laid off and looking for work, and while I would love to donate to these devs for their work, I simply don't have the money. But as soon as I do, I will gladly. I'm not looking for pity, just being honest. But a big thanks to all devs, porters, mods, anyone that devotes time here, because that's something I do know, time is a precious thing that shouldn't be taken for granted..
Sent from my HTC Glacier using xda premium
I don't think the OP was being disrespectful or intended to.
I see where he's coming from b/c there are a lot of ICS ROMs with common issues. Like we don't need three different AOKP ROMs for example, and if anything, it's gotta be hard on ...Awesome... to track progress for the fact he has several ICS builds and different threads, at least that's what I think, which is why I agree with the OP when he calls ...Awesome... out like that b/c all of his ROMs are basically the same, just w/ different "flavors" so it seems. If it was me, I'd put out just one ROM and give you guys no choice at all. If you really want all the silly things like themes and stuff, then do it yourself.
The vanilla ROM, is perfect. AOKP is fine. CM9, great. But ****ting Rainbows and Rootie Tootie (which is bloated to the max IMO) are unnecessary, esp. since it doesn't fix any of the core problems such as RR and SoD's and etc. and that only adds more threads to keep up with and distracts you from the things that really do matter. Yea it's cool and neat that you can get a ton of extra add ons into the ROM, but don't put all your work into just trying to make those silly settings and stuff work.
And another thing, ICS is a neat little project for our device, but if you want all that other **** and keep acting like you absolutely need to have ICS fully functional on this old outdated phone, then either A) go back to GB and be content w/ that until ICS is out of BETA or B) get a new damn phone, like everyone else has been doing. We're obsessed w/ ICS when we have perfectly, fully functional GB ROMs that devs have worked hard on too, like sckboy for example. He's still putting out GB ROMs and I bet some of you guys aren't aware of this at all b/c the ICS threads stay at the top of the forums pretty much.
jjbadd385 said:
I for one would like to say that I feel almost ashamed, that I use these roms, and I don't say thank you enough. Let me be honest, because at my age, its hard to fall asleep at night, having told a lie. I'm struggling right now, keeping my power on, & feeding my family. I'm laid off and looking for work, and while I would love to donate to these devs for their work, I simply don't have the money. But as soon as I do, I will gladly. I'm not looking for pity, just being honest. But a big thanks to all devs, porters, mods, anyone that devotes time here, because that's something I do know, time is a precious thing that shouldn't be taken for granted..
Sent from my HTC Glacier using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks man and like I've said before nobody here is doing it for money/donations specially me I do it for people to have a variety and its a hobby for me that I love doing...
I have a
Sense rom for all u sense freaks
AOSP & a AOKP rom for u ics fans
Cm9 rom
Variety!!! if it bothered the OP so much that theirs variety don't flash non of my ROMS thank you again and ill say it again as long as in my count 1 person is still using ANY of my roms ill keep updating them ENOUGH with this thread and the OP. Till he contributes 1 thing to this community he should be allowed to complain!!! As far as ANY other person in this community instead of complaining about a feature offer a suggestion the best one ive hear came yesterday when someone said they needed wifi calling for daily use sure they reported the same problem AGAIN but atleast he made a suggestion on how to fix it or try to fix it...
Sent from my ROOTIE TOOTIE FRESH 'N FRUITY GLACIER