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Rooting for n00bs!

This is NOT, and I repeat NOT a guide for rooting. It is a warning. Helpful advice if you will. It is here to deter you from making your life as well as those here who help others a nightmare. We are here to help those who want to help themselves. As mentioned in another thread, this forum is here to HELP people. This advice is here to help as helping also includes prevention. The advice below is for the sole purpose of preventing those who don't know what they're doing from bricking their devices prematurely.
If you don't like my advice or my opinion; that is your given right. Remember the forum rules and keep it impersonal, clean and respectful.
I am here to help people and if that includes encouraging members to learn first before they do harm to their device then so be it. If I can prevent even one person from ruining their phone before they learn how to use it then I accomplished something.
Note: Whosdaman; please feel free to move this to whatever section you feel this better fits in. I took a shot putting it here.
Disclaimer/Advice/Humble Opinion:
My advice (without trying to hurt anyone's feelings too much) is DON'T ROOT. I would suggest you familiarize yourself with everything (Linux, ADB, XDA, Google) before diving in head first.
Despite popular belief, having root does NOT in fact make you cooler.
Way too many new users are trying to root because they think it's cool or heard it's cool. Well; it's not cool to be a n00b and attempt root. You need to learn your device first.
If you don't know how to perform a Nandroid backup, or restore a previous ROM backup, flash updates, install custom ROM's, boot into Safe mode, Mount R/W, run shell commands or Terminal Emulator etc, then you should NOT root. You should browse the forums here, read, read and re-read everything until you know it well. Google search related topics. Exhaust all available avenues, then ask questions. After you've executed all of these options you might consider rooting and starting to tinker with your device.
If you don't even know what some of the things are that were mentioned, then you should absolutely NOT root your phone. You will likely brick or screw up your phone and then be right back here asking for help in a new thread most definitely created by you out of haste or costing [insert phone manufacturer/carrier here] money by sending your phone back and asking for a replacement simply because you had no idea what you were doing. JMHO
#include <std_disclaimer.h>
/*
* Rooting voids your warranty.
*/
Again, this is not here to offend anyone's sensitivity or hurt your feelings. Many have argued that bricking and recovery is the way they learn. That's fine [for them]. I highly doubt those same people started running before walking, or walking before crawling. But the majority of people need to learn first. Preventing someone from ruining their device is MY best advice.

I didn't know android had a safe mode.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

bubonik said:
I didn't know android had a safe mode.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1.) Power Off>remove battery>WAIT for at least two minutes.
2.) Power On Phone while Holding MENU key until you get to the lock screen>At the bottom left corner of the display in transparent text will be the words "Safe Mode"
When in safe mode, Android does not load any third-party apps, and you can uninstall the application that gave you trouble from Settings > Applications > Manage applications.
To exit Safe Mode:
1.) Power off phone again>remove battery>wait two minutes
2.) Do a normal power on ...

So after reading this I still couldn't figure out how to get this root stuff you were talking about. I don't know what this "search" or "google" is. But if this makes me cool then I'm all about it- maybe I could get a girlfriend finally.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

WHY?
The advice, while a successful deterrent, is not very useful. If people are here on this website, chances are they are here to learn something new about how to improve or customize their phones. We were all noobs at one point in time an I know that I benfited greatly from all the guides and reference threads here. Why not post some links to some helpful threads and say "Read these BEFORE you try anything," not "Don't try it at all and if you want to do it, find your own way to." Just a thought.

t-mo123 said:
If people are here on this website, chances are they are here to learn something new about how to improve or customize their phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that is exactly my advice. LEARN FIRST. Browse through the threads and see how many are beginners who jumped too soon and are now asking for help. It's ridiculous. If you don't like my advice move on and troll another thread. Many here agree with what I've suggested. Take it or leave it.
In my experience, the ones who have a problem with this are the ones who are guilty of it. People who want to be 'cool' and root without learning then clutter the forums begging for help.

Honestly I think you're making a sweeping generalization assuming that anyone who roots their phone without reading everything there is to read first is just trying to be "cool".
Granted, there are a lot of folks out there that could stand to take a lesson or two in common sense, but I don't think it does anyone any good to tell all the "n00bs" to essentially eff off until they've done more research than I think most people on this forum who've successfully rooted would normally do.
There are numerous disclaimers that tell people to stay away from rooting unless they either know what they're doing or are willing to take a risk, and there are numerous people who learn by doing rather than reading.
In fact I would venture a guess that, were people to subscribe to your suggestion, this forum and indeed the entire Android dev ecosphere would suffer greatly, because many devs learn by tweaking and fixing... usually something that they themselves broke!
I don't ask that you change your opinion. Simply that you ask yourself what you really hope to accomplish with this post. It would seem to me that the people you hope to deter would just be insulted and ignore it.
As a previous poster had mentioned, it would be more convincing if you provided resource links to help educate those you are trying to reach.
Also, before you sling that "troll" moniker my way as you did a previous poster, you might do well to remember that just as you have the right to post your opinion, others have the right to disagree.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

well sir, maybe some of us noobs got tired of not being able to use any apps over wifi on our blackberry without data a blackberry plan and bought an android phone so we can have more freedom.
maybe some of us noobs are diving into rooting so we can use setpcu and squeeze more than the stock 2 hour heavy use we get from a stock MT4G
maybe some of us want to learn more about the system but we ask so many questions because we dont know where to get VISIONary plus since its no longer in the market place.
i dunno about other noobs but a thread with links to what to read to learn more is way more beneficial to me than this one telling me to stay out the circle of android trust.
perhaps you are the one who thinks being rooted is "cool"?(no disrespect meant)
some of us do really want to learn and we appreciate every help and every answer we get to our questions from you veterans.
so please have a little patience and/or noob tolerance. someday we'll learn and stop asking the same question that had been answered a doze times already

A simple Google search turned up 302,000 for Visionary. Maybe if you stopped and thought before you posted you might have better results.
Again, this thread wasn't meant to hurt anyone's sensitive feelings [as it seems it has]. It was meant to deter new members/rookies from diving into something before they learned it. Obviously with the new breed of youngsters these days that just isn't the case. Common sense seems to have taken a back door to rushed gratification. Intelligent strategy is how many of us learned, not jumping in and screwing things up.
By jumping in and messing things up, you not only make things harder on yourselves but waste our time helping with things that have been answered a thousand times and a simple search would have taught you that.
As with anything in life, you need to 'learn' before you do something. Cognitive retention is key to mastering anything.
Your logic of diving in without thought or regard for yourself or others that will end up helping you is almost insulting. You will find that many of the longtime users/devs/veterans here enjoy helping people who take precautions and want to help themselves. But almost none of them/us really care to help those who jump blindly.
JMHO. Take it however you like. And you don't need to take it from me; just try and get help in here when you do something dumb and see how much help you get from senior members.

CBConsultation said:
A simple Google search turned up 302,000 for Visionary. Maybe if you stopped and thought before you posted you might have better results.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know what you did there, but I just did a simple google search for Visionary and got "About 9,880,000 results (0.11 seconds)"
Maybe your google fu is weak or something..
On another note back on topic, I couldn't disagree more with your OP.. As a newb I think diving right in is the best thing to do to learn.. I Can read a wiki for hours about a phone, but that doesn't give you the same experience of 10 minutes hands on does..
My biggest suggestion to a newb to this **** is dont start with a high end device.. Buy a HTC Wizard or Excalibur off craigslist & play with & tweak them 1st.. Then maybe a g1 or something.. That way if you do **** up & brick your device your not toast..
IMHO there is no better way to learn something then to do it.. But also when you have problems, don't think your unique & that nobody has ever posted your question before, Search for it 1st & then only post asking for help if you cant find it..

bastage said:
.. But also when you have problems, don't think your unique & that nobody has ever posted your question before, Search for it 1st & then only post asking for help if you cant find it..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And search further then the first page.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

I think I'll leave it in here, maybe even sticky it later

CB, while I can understand your frustration I believe your attitude could be seen as elitist.
I think that perhaps what we should be doing is trying to come up with a root cause solution that might work instead of telling people not to try something like rooting. As another poster implied, it's not that people shouldn't be rooting, but that they shouldn't be asking questions for which there are already answers.
This seems like the problem you're trying to address, not the problem of someone rooting their phone or not.
So let's put aside the discussion of how one learns and who has the right to root and focus on the issue of "inappropriate" posts.
Does that sound like a reasonable alternative?
Hopefully whatever comes out of this discussion could be used to improve the forum experience for everyone.
I should mention that I'm not really sure this thread should be in the dev section of the forum... Seems more like general discussion since the OP is more of an ideological opinion piece at this point.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

OP, does your soapbox come with a salad? Someone likes to hear himself talk...sheesh.
Swyped on my rooted MyTouch4G

viper3ez said:
well sir, maybe some of us noobs got tired of not being able to use any apps over wifi on our blackberry without data a blackberry plan and bought an android phone so we can have more freedom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As much as I HATE blackberries, I have to correct you. You do NOT need a data feature to use web over wifi on a Blackberry. How the hell would that make sense, seriously? But yes keep in mind, I am still not a BB fan lol, hate those pieces of crap.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

yo
so im not cool?

teamsilence said:
so im not cool?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're still cool in my book.

teamsilence said:
so im not cool?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your the bee's knees! Lol
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

teamsilence said:
so im not cool?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your so cool your like an iced glacier.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

CBConsultation said:
A simple Google search turned up 302,000 for Visionary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good lord, does anyone here actually have the time to go through 302.000 pages? Maybe I am the only one who has kids and a wife, but I know I don't have time to take a freaking computer programing course to teach myself how to use freaking cmnd lines. The crap I have seen on different forums that walk people through different rooting procedures on different phones acts as though everyone know WTF they are doing and/or has the time to spend hours a day learning. Guess what? Not everyone does. I spend hours a day teaching people the basics of how to use their phones and I have to give directions my grandmother could follow, is it to much to ask for detailed instruction that someone who has a very basic understanding of how to use these phones could follow? I don't think so. If you "seniors" could realize that you aren't cooler because you know what you are doing, and did the responsible thing and shared your knowledge without *****ing, moaning, and complaining about n00bs, you could help more n00bs become 'seniors' themselves and have more people out there able to help others.

Disappointed in the rudeness I am reading :(

Hey guys I was meandering through the forum reading up on the root progress, and I read about a member's idea and work on an automated root, I just want to say that from a dedicated member to the inc forum I am disappointed in the flaming and garbage that all you "experienced" devs are throwing at the people who haven't used adb before... Come on guys if you can't be kind why say something, you know? They won't learn if somebody is discouraging them from even trying... So just a thought, be kind because discouragement is not what these forums are about guys.
Peace to all you silly android fans out there and happy rooting!

People will make those sort of comments unfortunately.
And people will make these sort of posts about it.
Just another day on almost every community forums.

engagedtosmile said:
People will make those sort of comments unfortunately.
And people will make these sort of posts about it.
Just another day on almost every community forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just saying man, coming from the inc forum where we actually help eachother... Its no way to talk to somebody who could actually turn into a decent dev, its happened tons of times

It has nothing to do with being rude or polite... The root process is very crude at the moment, recovery is not fully functional and You really can't back up if you fubar your phone... There is a very strong possibility of making a paper weight with the current method ... Just be patient I hear unrEVOked is working on root which won't come out until a solid recovery is running
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App

Here is a link for anyone needing adb help. i made a post in a thread with links to help users learn adb and understand it. i understand the being new and needing help. the link in the post are the links i used to learn adb and everything with it.
Will go directly to my post with links:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=12255365&postcount=27

I agree with the OP...it was just the attitude of some of them that was the issue. Very rude and condescending. I do agree that right now it's a crude root method and that without a solid working recovery it's not advisable for anyone but the experienced. BUT that is no reason to denigrate those that want a one click solution down the line when things are solid.

When the Inc first was rooted, I remember the same types of posts about not knowing adb = shouldn't root.
It's just part of the territory. Also it leads to the same hand-holding through the process 50x a day.
It'll pass, just like it did with the Inc
Sent from my HTC Incredible using Tapatalk

The above post is correct. Don't let anyone discourage you. We were all new to this at one point, and I don't think there is a single one of us that did not get an impolite comment directed towards a valid question at some point during the learning process.
Sent from my Thunderbolt using Tapatalk

People are just rude in general. If you say something someone doesn't agree with, they make damn sure you know they disapprove. I took my leave from the INC forums after the iPhone 4 debacle that happened in the general forum. That and someone told me my ROM list was stupid and worthless in a PM...
I concur, I can ADB like I'm typing a paper (I have extensive command line experience) but my gf, who bought her first android phone recently, can hardly turn a computer on.
Long story short, some people don't want to risk breaking their brand spanking new phone just to have more functionality. If an easy, tried and true method presents itself, people will not only flock to it, but they will gladly give money for it (I know I would). Calling someone a noob or making fun of them is counter-productive and will deter all future forward progress here. No one wants to dev for a bunch of ingrates and jerks.
+1 to the OP.

necosino said:
When the Inc first was rooted, I remember the same types of posts about not knowing adb = shouldn't root.
It's just part of the territory. Also it leads to the same hand-holding through the process 50x a day.
It'll pass, just like it did with the Inc
Ditto- I know what I don't know. And I don't know adb.
Sent from my HTC Incredible using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App

I agree 100%. Too many jerks here for this forum to be a useful resouce atm. Maybe one day down the line....

magneticzero said:
I agree 100%. Too many jerks here for this forum to be a useful resouce atm. Maybe one day down the line....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would, respectfully, disagree w/that statement.
IMHO what happens is people get tired of listening to the same questions over and over and over - this is why we have a search button and why google kicks ass too. I think people get snippy after seeing the 8 millionth person come in and ask "what's root" or "what's a ROM".
I'm not sure of the rudeness the OP was mentioning as I haven't seen it in regards to NOOB developers, but from my own personal experience around here I've found this place to be very helpful. I learned all I could about rooting my Eris via google and on another one of the android forums, ultimately a google search landed me here and I took the plunge and rooted and started w/the Kaos ROMS before trying many, many others.
People shouldn't just come in and start asking Q's - they should look around first and when they don't, that's why trouble starts (not here, on ANY forum).
As far as the OP here goes, I haven't read the posts he was talking about, but I can understand why -if somebody was looking for legitimate "how to" info on development and that person was met w/a bunch of crap - they would be frustrated.
I love it here

If you find any rude people pm me about them, I have a hammer
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

Captainkrtek said:
If you find any rude people pm me about them, I have a hammer
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We also have a chicken and a kraken (sp??) ....

As one of the newer users here, I understand where both sides are coming from. The amount of content here is kind of intimidating for some people, and those who are looking for a "do everything" solution such as one-click root are going to be dissappointed. And then some people are so impatient to root that they'll be pestering people, asking any question that helps them out immediately, not checking for already posted questions, and that's the hand-holding that is being criticized/attacked here.
But I do see where they are coming from. There is a lot of information here that is important, but with the volume of posts, it gets lost, and there seems to be no direct go-to thread or threads for people to ask questions like that in this forum. Unfortunately, not everyone is going to read all the threads here, nor will many set foot in the general Android forums here I think, so they don't know where to start, and many will ask their own questions in their own thread(s).
If anything, some of the most important information that needs to be more accessible IMO is the links to the driver/tweaking the driver for the device to be picked up with adb.

Russ36363 said:
There is a lot of information here that is important, but with the volume of posts, it gets lost, and there seems to be no direct go-to thread or threads for people to ask questions like that in this forum. Unfortunately, not everyone is going to read all the threads here, nor will many set foot in the general Android forums here I think, so they don't know where to start, and many will ask their own questions in their own thread(s).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We all have our moments. I tend to answer the questions first, then include something like if you have to ask this, you're probably not ready to do it on your own yet, or here's your answer, but a simple search would have revealed it.
Google and search are our friends. Most of the "old timers" just get annoyed when people ask something that could have easily been found with either a Google search (set site to xda if only interested in xda responses) or with a forum search (search from main area that covers all subsections, use "show posts" and skim through the results), because the same question has been/asked answered dozens of times already.
All that said, the sub-forum structure across devices is inconsistent, the protocols of where to ask/post isn't consistent, and the search feature in xda absolutely SUCKS. I've always considered myself a pretty good query builder to find what I want quickly, but even I have to run through multiple searches to find what I'm looking for. The 30 second delay between being able to start a new query can be very frustrating, if xda dropped that to 10 seconds or so, it would probably encourage more multiple searches before asking. It's no wonder newer members get frustrated, though many are just too lazy or desperate to take the time to look...

Captainkrtek said:
If you find any rude people pm me about them, I have a hammer
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alright good to know, thank you
Sent from my bad ass mini thunderbolt

Russ36363 said:
There is a lot of information here that is important, but with the volume of posts, it gets lost, and there seems to be no direct go-to thread or threads for people to ask questions like that in this forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A Q&A sub-forum would help with this. It helped the Fascinate forum out a lot with the very same issues described in this thread.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App

Garrett07 said:
Just saying man, coming from the inc forum where we actually help eachother... Its no way to talk to somebody who could actually turn into a decent dev, its happened tons of times
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just want to say that until last night I HAD no idea how to use adb. One of those devs that you are complaining is so rude, got me the help I needed, to the point that they were on RDP with me and handheld me thru it, even straight did some sections.
In ither words I'm finding nothing but help from the dev community.

qwirked said:
I just want to say that until last night I HAD no idea how to use adb. One of those devs that you are complaining is so rude, got me the help I needed, to the point that they were on RDP with me and handheld me thru it, even straight did some sections.
In ither words I'm finding nothing but help from the dev community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never said they aren't helping, I'm saying that rudeness is not what forum communities need to be based on, its not right that people have to have attitude online, nor in general, people come to forums for help and communication they don't want to get on a thread and see that somebody has posted a reply being rude to their work and or statement, its just something I'd like to see change but it never will

Where is the love?

It seems lately there has been alot of negativity towards people asking questions. There have been far too many replies to questions with people complaining about the question, and the complaint takes longer to post than the answer. If you don't want to answer someones question, don't open the thread!! This is supposed to be a friendly, helpful community. There will always be different levels of experience. There is not 1 person on this forum that has never experienced the panic factor when they thought they messed up their phone. Let's keep that in mind when someone asks a question without doing an extensive search first.
PS- You are not the phone police, who are you to say what someone should and shouldn't do with their phone?

Because at least 50% of posts asking for help have been answered multiple times... in multiple threads... by multiple people.
It gets annoying answering questions for people who really shouldn't be rooting phones to begin with... or who don't take time to do any research. Instead of taking the time to learn and read.
There was an excellent article the other day on android central... about rooting not always being the answer. I think alot of people should read it.
http://m.androidcentral.com/sometimes-root-isn’t-answer
You don't need to root to enjoy android. And not everyone is. But alot of people have no idea what they are getting into... then come here and expect it to be fixed because they didn't research.
Xda is a very helpful community... but everyone gets a little tired sometimes of answering the same questions.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

camalus said:
Because at least 50% of posts asking for help have been answered multiple times... in multiple threads... by multiple people.
It gets annoying answering questions for people who really shouldn't be rooting phones to begin with... or who don't take time to do any research. Instead of taking the time to learn and read.
There was an excellent article the other day on android central... about rooting not always being the answer. I think alot of people should read it.
http://m.androidcentral.com/sometimes-root-isn’t-answer
You don't need to root to enjoy android. And not everyone is. But alot of people have no idea what they are getting into... then come here and expect it to be fixed because they didn't research.
Xda is a very helpful community... but everyone gets a little tired sometimes of answering the same questions.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+10,000
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

camalus said:
Because at least 50% of posts asking for help have been answered multiple times... in multiple threads... by multiple people.
It gets annoying answering questions for people who really shouldn't be rooting phones to begin with... or who don't take time to do any research. Instead of taking the time to learn and read.
There was an excellent article the other day on android central... about rooting not always being the answer. I think alot of people should read it.
http://m.androidcentral.com/sometimes-root-isn’t-answer
You don't need to root to enjoy android. And not everyone is. But alot of people have no idea what they are getting into... then come here and expect it to be fixed because they didn't research.
Xda is a very helpful community... but everyone gets a little tired sometimes of answering the same questions.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well yes that's true and all but the OP has a point when he said everyone has that panic attack and doesnt bother looking before posting I mean seriously when you think your really screwed over and may have just wasted $400 I know now I'd probably look first but when I first started out with my good ol G1 I flipped **** man! Its still bricked, sitting in a shelf somewhere. But I became more experienced as I moved from MT3G to MT4G so yea noobs to forums will always be an issue here I mean really in what forum aren't they? But its better to be supportive than criticize the new Guy with a broken phone by saying 'go look in this thread or this or this or this' I mean it just makes em feel bad. This is hypocritical since I know I have a few posts criticizing noons on here for posting but whatever it happens.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

I agree with people generally needing to read up on as much as they can, especially when they're starting with android and/or rooting, but I will say there's something nice about having a chat about your particular situation. Reading an old thread often has useful information, but I could definitely see how a poster might need/want more specific, personalized advice that meets whatever issue they're having head-on. And often, I know I've been researching a particular issue, will find old threads on it, but still need additional clarification.
Obviously, people should be able to help themselves as much as possible - but in the end, that's why this is a forum, and not a tech blog, so that people CAN have discourse about common areas of interest and, hopefully, help one another out.

lowandbehold said:
PS- You are not the phone police, who are you to say what someone should and shouldn't do with their phone?
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Click to collapse
Okay i wasn't going to say a damn thing till i saw this line.
You are 100% correct we are not officially the Android Police or Phone Police. However neither are you. WE are not telling people what to do with their devices. We are simply throwing up road blocks. As if to say....
do not proceed the bridge is out
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Click to collapse
and you you keep on going and ignore the blatant warnings and crash and burn you shouldn't come here crying that you jacked something. On the same note we did not force you to do anything to your phone. No one from XDA held a Glock 19 and uttered the words " ROOT YOUR MUTHA EFFING PHONE OR WE KILL YOU".... you chose to do it willingly. And you should be man enough to say well i screwed my phone and i need to fix it.
9/10 people here will answer the question at hand. regardless of its "how do i root my phone", "how do i flash an image" or what ever else have you. but it someone has a low post count we will absolutely throw warnings out there. Android devices are mini Linux Computers. Now i do not claim to be a *UNIX guru, nor do i claim to be an Android guru, but i've seen enough people to brick their phones do routine things to know better......
I joined XDA because i was tired of the drama on Android Central and Cracberry's Android section. I wanted to find a good group of guys with similar interest, with similar phones and the exact same motto.
Someone once helped me with Android, and i feel i need to do the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and i found XDA, i lurked for a while and thought this a good place to be....
just because you see "negative comments" doesn't mean we don't have the best intent in our hearts. We just understand what can come with things are done incorrectly.
And to finish up to answer your question "where is the love", sometimes the best love one can show is tough love, it might not appear to be there now, but down the road.... well hind sight is always 20/20.

I've struggled conceptually countless times on these forums and people have been gracious enough to help me out, but the couple of times I thought I might have actually messed up my phone the first thought that entered my head wasn't "OH SH!T, let me write an incoherent post in the first forum i see and wait for my savior," it was "you idiot, you read about this possibility and now you have a worthless piece of electronics, maybe next time you won't be so stupid." I then researched my issue and, luckily, found a solution. You can learn how to do ANYTHING on the internet these days, that's the beauty of global communication. I just think most people get frustrated when someone asks another to take time out of their day to assist them when it is clear by their post that they didn't even take the time to help themselves, you know?
No one here has a problem with helping someone out; that is clear by sheer number of question posts that get answered daily- especially when people follow the forum guidelines and at least attempt to present their issue with as much detail as possible. It's the "SOMEONE HELP ME CLOCKWORK BROKE MY PHONE" posted in the development section that cause more trouble than anything.

Just like there were many threads complaining about people not answering questions or being hostile to newbs.
Here's the very basic explanation on how to not make an ass out of yourself and save us all from answering the same thing over and over again:
1. Read BEFORE you do something
2. Read and UNDERSTAND what you're about to do, again, BEFORE you do it.
3. If anything goes wrong - take a step back to think what you did, have a smoke/drink/whatever you do and relax. Search for an answer on similar situation, bet you money it has been answered before. If all fails, write up well-organized, informative post with all info (what you had, what you did and what happened) and be patient. 5 threads within 2 hrs will not get you any farther.
Good luck to all.

People dont mind helping or answering questions its just that no one honestly reads before posting. 9 out of 10 questions have answers within the forum.
Sent From My Evil Glacier Using Xda Premium App.

Charle is 100% percent correct in his statement. In all honesty all the information for rooting, flashing recovery, custom roms are in the development section under the rom bible in the development section. The hard part has already been done for us.

I 100% agree that you should read ALOT before deciding to root. I read everything and watched videos for over a week before deciding to root.
The main point I was trying to make is that if you are sick of answering the same question, don't answer it. Just don't type anything. Hit the back button. There is no need for the rude remarks.
And Neidlinger I don't understand your post whatsoever. I don't understand it because you are one of the most knowledgable and helpful people on this forum. I don't know how many times you had to answer questions regarding bootloops with the wrong recovery, and every single time, you just answered the question. I honestly feel that more replies in the Q&A section should be just like yours.

lowandbehold said:
And Neidlinger I don't understand your post whatsoever. I don't understand it because you are one of the most knowledgable and helpful people on this forum. I don't know how many times you had to answer questions regarding bootloops with the wrong recovery, and every single time, you just answered the question. I honestly feel that more replies in the Q&A section should be just like yours.
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Click to collapse
I apologize, i'm at work and and got heated about something here and really shouldn't of posted that....and when i saw "where is the love", knowing how much i try to help people out around here... it just really bothered me....
you line made it sound like, if we have some one that pops and their very first post is "how do i root my phone" we should bow down and help them. With out throwing any warnings out. just here is how to do it and explain step by step how to.
First of all i will throw out warnings, i will never ward anyone away from doing what they want to do with their device. After all it's their money they are gambling with.
secondly when i bought my first android (mytouch3G) phone i bought with a stock recovery image and a working bootloader and i had to figure everything else from there. I had to learn quickly, if i wanted my phone up and running. So thanks for the props on being knowledgeable, but it was something i pretty much had to do. And people read on BGR, Android Central, or what ever popular bog site about XDA members did this and XDA members did that they jump on here and expect us to hold their hand. People have very well laid out threads on how do do certain things. The reason i treat others the way i do when it comes to problem solving is pretty simple. I had someone do the same for me. A higher up for T-Mobile that took the time and showed me how to do what i needed done. And that kinda what my idea of the Android community is. People helping people, for the fun and enjoyment of it.
with that being said....
With True_blue, Option94, faux123 not to mention another 1/2 dozen good developers and highly knowledgeable people that put things out in black and white, easy to understand English their should be no reason why so many of the same exact threads show up. You can type in just about any Android problem or request in Google and it'll lead you to XDA, and the thread in question. Just like the thread with the guy that just posted " how do i get 2.3, the nexus s variant on my phone"... step one should of been research in stead of starting a new thread....It's the laziness that bothers me. Like with programs like Super Manager and Root Explorer, people are to lazy to learn the ADB commands.... Clockwork ROM manager, people are to lazy to flash a recovery image. Or flashing a ROM go south... did you check the MD5sum? "nope, whats that"... it's just pure laziness that bothers me...

I understand 100% where you guys are coming from. I completely agree that things should be searched for first. I just think that the #1 priority should be helping the person out first, and then correcting. I just want it to be known that this is in no way at all coming from an experience that I had...I think my anger really started with that epidemic of E:/can't mount bs where everyone was like "hey idiot you can get into recovery, you aren't bricked." And now we know now that is not the case.

lowandbehold said:
I understand 100% where you guys are coming from. I completely agree that things should be searched for first. I just think that the #1 priority should be helping the person out first, and then correcting. I just want it to be known that this is in no way at all coming from an experience that I had...I think my anger really started with that epidemic of E:/can't mount bs where everyone was like "hey idiot you can get into recovery, you aren't bricked." And now we know now that is not the case.
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I was one of them idiots that had that cnt mount cache or data issue with my phone,worst thing ever lol...Anyway instead of askin questions on 1 or 2 threads,it went to a bunch of different threads & it did get a lil annoyin cause we all tryin to find a fix but cnt really lock on one cause its soo many diff threads,its just all over the place,if people would just calm dwn & wait for the thread to get answered all would be good but people are impatient & start new threads of the same BS.....

I bricked my phone! I was trying a rootatoot method and it all went caplooey!!!??!?!? OMG I don't want to read! Tell me all knowing everyone what I should do!! Whoa is me! WHOA IS ME!
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

UntamedDeviance said:
I bricked my phone! I was trying a rootatoot method and it all went caplooey!!!??!?!? OMG I don't want to read! Tell me all knowing everyone what I should do!! Whoa is me! WHOA IS ME!
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
Good example but pretty useless lol.. honestly I enjoy helping out people that's why I'm around here. Helping people makes me feel accomplished no matter what the scenario but fixing the same thing over and over gets to the point where its redundant and you want to get the point across to hit the search button. Hell most of the time ill even link to the thread but when I'm on my phone like I am currently I can't. I enjoy helping but I enjoy even more helping people who can help themselves.
Sent from my HTC Glaciee using XDA Premium App

i totally agree with neidlinger on his points. I started with a G1, Mytouch 3g, mytouch slide, and now MT4G. I read everything i could get my hands on how to root and reread it again. If i still didn't understand something, then i would ask a question or search for it. Most of the posts i read nowadays, people want to be spoon-fed out of sheer laziness.

If the questions posed in these forums were even half as thought out as the comments in this thread, 95% of the snappy remarks would disappear. People want to know they are assisting someone who values that assistance. One or two sentences rarely creates that picture.

Why people post new threads without searching - one theory

So this is slightly off-topic, but I think it ties in a little bit to a question/reaction that often comes up on the board.
I regularly see people posting a new thread with questions that have been asked before, and others become upset with them for posting something that has already been answered. This then leads to annoyance/anger on both sides, as the question-asker feels bad for not finding the answer (often after searching), and the question-answerer feels frustration because the forum has another new thread for something that they feel shouldn't have to be asked again.
I found this, which is the US Coast Guard's manual dealing with making decisions in stressful situations (it's a pdf). On page 11 of the document, it describes people trying to make decisions in stressful situations. It explains that an individual in a stressful situation where real danger is present (think back to the first time something went wrong on your phone....) will tend to say that there's not enough time to solve the problem, and that the person is not able to process information efficiently. It then says that the person will deny that the problem can be solved (by them).
Translation: The phone breaks (messes up, etc). The person sees that the very expensive device they own is not working right, and they begin to panic that it might not be able to be fixed. They know that XDA is an source for answers and help, and in the panicked state, post a question without thoroughly thinking through the action.
Ok, so why am I on a soapbox about this? Two reasons:
1. I don't know about anyone else here, but I can clearly remember times where I did something to my phone that I thought I had killed it. It was a real uphill struggle to stay calm and search diligently until I found what I was looking for. I would just like everyone to think back to their own experiences like this when replying to people who seem panicked.
2. To people who are panicking because something has gone wrong: try to relax. 99% of the time, whatever is wrong with the phone can be fixed, and you've come to the largest wealth of information available about your phone. Just take a little bit longer to do a little more searching before you hit the post button. And don't be afraid to use Google outside of XDA, or to search within the thread results.
And if I'm wrong, I'm sorry.
(For more reading about stress' effect on decision-making, see this. It's the US Army Survival Manual, Chapter 2).

I vote because they are stupid.
And/or just haven't been in forums enough to understand how they work.

some people here are jerks

I vote nubs. Or just ignorance
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA Premium App

I think most of the time people just don't read up enough before flashing, they come to the site and see a ROM that they just have to get and they get in a hurry and bad things happen.
I read and read for about a month before I dared to flash and I haven't had any problems.
Now my friend comes to me every time she needs help with her phone like I know what I'm doing lol. But really I just know that the answer to any problem is here already you just have to find it.
Sent from my captivate running Speed and Looks Ginger Style

i am a noob so i know why (at least in my case)
1. should have read TRusselo's new user guide on first visit to xda
2. sometimes i search and do not find then a member shows me a thread i didnt know about thus confirming my inability to search successfully
3. some people post things in the wrong section (there is an off topic section, this is the captivate section and posting without searching is not exclusive to captivate users) this is a joke, not serious or meant to offend the |OP|
4. no knowledge of correct keywords to search (all the acronyms is like chinese to a noob) is there a xda dictionary for noobs?
5. the first thing we (noobs) do is panic. then we panic more. finally we relax...then panic again.
on behalf of all the noobs that post without searching we are sorry and as we learn more about the site we will improve upon our mistakes. please be patient with us, we appreciate your help and feel honored to be a part of this site.

We already had a thread like this. Use the search function.

Sorry about that. I'm still hunting for that link, but if you provide it, I'll update the OP.

I have discovered that I can't post up findings, observations or give thanks to the developers in the development form, because I do not have 10 posts
everything I search for I find, so no need to post.... so I am thinking some just post generic questions to get the post that they need.
But I do have to agree with the OP, when you think you killed your phone, you panic

jmtheiss said:
Sorry about that. I'm still hunting for that link, but if you provide it, I'll update the OP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a feeling that was just a joke playing on what you are posting about
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App

Yep, agree with op
Explains it on a deeper level than noob, lazy, or stupid. Some posses the ability to work in stressful situations and some don't. Those need to learn how before becoming a member of xda.

You're over complicating it. Half of the problem is that the native vBulletin search feature is wimpy and doesn't often return helpful results. And of course it consumes lot of server resources, it's down about as often as it isn't, and even when it is working you can only do it once every 30 seconds if you want to revise research terms or if you make a mistake. A Google cse custom search engine might go a long way toward helping out.
Chiding users for not using search is at least a little misplaced in my opinion. Comparisons to decision-making in critical life or death stressful situations are at least a little off-base.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

Rrryan2 said:
You're over complicating it. Half of the problem is that the native vBulletin search feature is wimpy and doesn't often return helpful results. And of course it consumes lot of server resources, it's down about as often as it isn't, and even when it is working you can only do it once every 30 seconds if you want to revise research terms or if you make a mistake. A Google cse custom search engine might go a long way toward helping out.
Chiding users for not using search is at least a little misplaced in my opinion. Comparisons to decision-making in critical life or death stressful situations are at least a little off-base.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with both views. I have yet to meet a v-bulletin site whose search function was worth a tinker's damn... and a number of the folks who voted "stupid" or "lazy" when it comes to someone posting a repeat question seem to forget that this is a very large forum, with tens of thousands of posts. Sometimes, finding the one post or series of posts that can be of use when you think you've just killed your $199 to $500 phone can be a bit tough.
Also, even when it's not a subject I have a vested interest in finding the answer to, I sometimes appreciate the repeat of a question that has already been asked because often someone (whose ego isn't so invested somehow proving their worth by being "right") will ever-so-kindly skip the lectures and point out threads I had no idea existed--and which I can then bookmark for later reference.
I've learned some very cool things about the care and feeding of my Captivate as a result (to say nothing of gaining more general information on a number of devices), so I'm not overly inclined to squawk when someone asks a question that's been asked before.

kevalin said:
I agree with both views. I have yet to meet a v-bulletin site whose search function was worth a tinker's damn... and a number of the folks who voted "stupid" or "lazy" when it comes to someone posting a repeat question seem to forget that this is a very large forum, with tens of thousands of posts. Sometimes, finding the one post or series of posts that can be of use when you think you've just killed your $199 to $500 phone can be a bit tough.
Also, even when it's not a subject I have a vested interest in finding the answer to, I sometimes appreciate the repeat of a question that has already been asked because often someone (whose ego isn't so invested somehow proving their worth by being "right") will ever-so-kindly skip the lectures and point out threads I had no idea existed--and which I can then bookmark for later reference.
I've learned some very cool things about the care and feeding of my Captivate as a result (to say nothing of gaining more general information on a number of devices), so I'm not overly inclined to squawk when someone asks a question that's been asked before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amen to that!

z28james said:
I have a feeling that was just a joke playing on what you are posting about
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the immortal words of a small Sicilian man,
"INCONCEIVABLE!"

Next let's hear your theory on pointless, off topic threads!

AJerman said:
Next let's hear your theory on pointless, off topic threads!
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Click to collapse
And how to search for them?

Updating inspire

Some one tell me how to update to the picture attached without loosing my current root
Sent from my HTC Inspire 4G using XDA Premium App

You have to have a pretty-much rock-stock ROM for this update to work. You could just install attn1's version of the stock ROM with this update already applied, then properly rooted and packaged for installation:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1058042
After installing, the update screen will show that you are up to date.

nickdixon14 said:
Some one tell me how to update to the picture attached without loosing my current root
Sent from my HTC Inspire 4G using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since Gene has graciously answered your question, may I remind you that this is one of the most common questions asked, over and over. Please do a little searching first.
Thanks!

See I don't won't to have to go back to stock or any of thst stuff why can't I just flash it in hboot
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA Premium App

nickdixon14 said:
See I don't won't to have to go back to stock or any of thst stuff why can't I just flash it in hboot
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is how flash attn1 rom. I think you might have misunderstood. He meant that you could go back to stock stock and apply it. Because if your rooted it will fail to install OR. Apply attn1 rom.
Sent from my TARDIS using XDA App

Attn1's ROM is flashed in hboot because it includes a radio. It is the ota update your phone is trying to get, but with root. He also has one in that same thread with sideloading enabled.
Sent from my HTC Inspire™ 4G using Tapatalk

i really dont get why it bothers some people so much, they respond to threads saying use the search button, people ask it alot. U dont have to respond to the post to begin with, alot of people do though, and with the same effort used to say use the search button, u could have just as easily answered the question.
Best part is if u dont want to answer it because you think they were to lazy to search it gets buried pretty quick.

jc2470 said:
i really dont get why it bothers some people so much, they respond to threads saying use the search button, people ask it alot. U dont have to respond to the post to begin with, alot of people do though, and with the same effort used to say use the search button, u could have just as easily answered the question.
Best part is if u dont want to answer it because you think they were to lazy to search it gets buried pretty quick.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its probably because to newer users, its a little intimidating to go thru many posts and threads, and they also know some info could be outdated. Maybe on the site, there should be an official, updated "how to" glossary or wiki.

jc2470 said:
i really dont get why it bothers some people so much, they respond to threads saying use the search button, people ask it alot. U dont have to respond to the post to begin with, alot of people do though, and with the same effort used to say use the search button, u could have just as easily answered the question.
Best part is if u dont want to answer it because you think they were to lazy to search it gets buried pretty quick.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll tell you why....
Because the question was already answered for one thing.
It's also forum rules, and I've seen it mentioned by Mods a million times.
Community moderation...I let people know in the hopes of breaking a habit before it starts: posting a new thread for every single question that crosses their mind, and, eventually, expect to be given answers to everything, getting even more reluctant to do the "work" of finding answers and learning about their phones on their own.
Next thing you know, we're up to our necks in duplicate posts. Then, NOBODY will want to answer ANYTHING, because they have to wade through 4 tons of duplicate crap, and it ain't worth it.
How hard is it to Google "inspire OTA update root" ?

Scott_S said:
I'll tell you why....
Because the question was already answered for one thing.
It's also forum rules, and I've seen it mentioned by Mods a million times.
Community moderation...I let people know in the hopes of breaking a habit before it starts: posting a new thread for every single question that crosses their mind, and, eventually, expect to be given answers to everything, getting even more reluctant to do the "work" of finding answers and learning about their phones on their own.
Next thing you know, we're up to our necks in duplicate posts. Then, NOBODY will want to answer ANYTHING, because they have to wade through 4 tons of duplicate crap, and it ain't worth it.
How hard is it to Google "inspire OTA update root" ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As to the last question: speaking for myself, I am tempted to just ask question, not because I can't effin search, but some of my questions, one has to weed through all manner of material on multiple threads, some pertinent, some not, since February to ascertain "the" answer. This is all well and good and maybe an exercise in disciple, like back in school or something, but maybe some of us just get impatient in an effort to save time. That said, I am fully on board with the forum rules, because da rules are da rules, and this is where one has to come for this sort of stuff :-D.

meiguoguizi said:
As to the last question: speaking for myself, I am tempted to just ask question, not because I can't effin search, but some of my questions, one has to weed through all manner of material on multiple threads, some pertinent, some not, since February to ascertain "the" answer. This is all well and good and maybe an exercise in disciple, like back in school or something, but maybe some of us just get impatient in an effort to save time. That said, I am fully on board with the forum rules, because da rules are da rules, and this is where one has to come for this sort of stuff :-D.
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Click to collapse
Oh I agree. Everyone has questions, and everyone has opinions. There are often times wrong/incomplete answers to things, and both yes and no to the same question.
It's not necessarily easy to parse through and distill all of this stuff. But it can be done. I often times run across answers that go both ways, and that can be unsettling, especially if it involves potentially bricking a device if you get it wrong.
It's just a question of analysis, and I concede some people are more comfortable doing it than others. I guess I never expected to be handed all of the answers to basic questions.
I've always preferred searching over posting in asking a question, as it usually always provides the answer *quicker* than waiting for someone to post back an answer to the question.
Not to mention, if it turns out it was a much easier answer to find than first apparent, or that it was one's own oversight responsible for a problem that motivated the question, one can bypass getting antagonized by jerks like me.

I hear ya
Scott_S said:
Oh I agree. Everyone has questions, and everyone has opinions. There are often times wrong/incomplete answers to things, and both yes and no to the same question.
It's not necessarily easy to parse through and distill all of this stuff. But it can be done. I often times run across answers that go both ways, and that can be unsettling, especially if it involves potentially bricking a device if you get it wrong.
It's just a question of analysis, and I concede some people are more comfortable doing it than others. I guess I never expected to be handed all of the answers to basic questions.
I've always preferred searching over posting in asking a question, as it usually always provides the answer *quicker* than waiting for someone to post back an answer to the question.
Not to mention, if it turns out it was a much easier answer to find than first apparent, or that it was one's own oversight responsible for a problem that motivated the question, one can bypass getting antagonized by jerks like me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just presenting another side...because I can . One side of me just want's to get things done. Another side thoroughly enjoyed the process of learning the ins and outs of my beloved now rooted device by weeding through a community forum of all things...all good!

meiguoguizi said:
Just presenting another side...because I can . One side of me just want's to get things done. Another side thoroughly enjoyed the process of learning the ins and outs of my beloved now rooted device by weeding through a community forum of all things...all good!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I agree. It really depends on the urgency of the situation. If your phone is boot-looping, it's understandable want to get the thing running again as quickly as possible.

Thank You
Scott_S said:
Again, I agree. It really depends on the urgency of the situation. If your phone is boot-looping, it's understandable want to get the thing running again as quickly as possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes this. Exactly. 10 words.

Scott, why must you pretend to be GOD in these forums which you clearly aren't....if the guy wants to ask, let him ask...the search feature in this forum sucks anyways, so i would of done the same exact thing. don't like reading something that is redundant, then go grab the book War and Peace and entertain yourself. I am sure that by the time you are done with it, all items here would be OUTDATED and you will have no choice but to ask questions yourself, which is where i would answer you back with this:
"i really dont get why it bothers some people so much, they respond to threads saying use the search button, people ask it alot. U dont have to respond to the post to begin with, alot of people do though, and with the same effort used to say use the search button, u could have just as easily answered the question.
Best part is if u dont want to answer it because you think they were to lazy to search it gets buried pretty quick."

gmiusa02 said:
Scott, why must you pretend to be GOD in these forums which you clearly aren't....if the guy wants to ask, let him ask...the search feature in this forum sucks anyways, so i would of done the same exact thing. don't like reading something that is redundant, then go grab the book War and Peace and entertain yourself. I am sure that by the time you are done with it, all items here would be OUTDATED and you will have no choice but to ask questions yourself, which is where i would answer you back with this:
"i really dont get why it bothers some people so much, they respond to threads saying use the search button, people ask it alot. U dont have to respond to the post to begin with, alot of people do though, and with the same effort used to say use the search button, u could have just as easily answered the question.
Best part is if u dont want to answer it because you think they were to lazy to search it gets buried pretty quick."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not pretending anything. Searching before posting is forum rules, often cited by mods. I happen to feel it's important enough to remind people, and I'm not the only one. It's called community moderation.
No, a lot of stuff does NOT get outdated. Some do, like radio flashing and not needing eng s-off, but others don't, or haven't yet and don't look like they're going to.
For example, rooting remains the same basic process as when it started. One of two methods are available, and likely there won't be any new ground-breaking discoveries, at least for a while. Maybe it will change in the future, but it hasn't yet.
Another example... Until someone makes ATT want to push their otas to rooted devices, the process by which to update one's rooted phone with those OTA updates will remain the same. Etc....
And Google works just fine, better than the built-in search function of many sites.
Saying "I can't search because search sux" is a cop-out, plain and simple.

gmiusa02 said:
...the search feature in this forum sucks anyways...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm, no. At least not on the full site. If you look right above the forum frames (up, up a little more, no down, yeah, there, on the right) you'll see the search you should be using. It searches recursively from wherever you are. Forum home? Searches the whole board. Inspire home? Searches the whole Inspire board. Inspire Dev? Yep, just the dev section. It goes clear down to searching within a thread. Hardly sucky.

I have been rooted for about a month now and have flashed several custom roms but am now back at the stock rooted rom desiring the latest at&t ota update. I read earlier in this thread that because I'm already rooted the update won't install. My question is can I just flash the attn1 rom even though I rooted my device using bubby's root method?

Att.Fan1982 said:
I have been rooted for about a month now and have flashed several custom roms but am now back at the stock rooted rom desiring the latest at&t ota update. I read earlier in this thread that because I'm already rooted the update won't install. My question is can I just flash the attn1 rom even though I rooted my device using bubby's root method?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It should work fine. All attn1's ROM needs is s-off. Bubby's give you that.

I'm not positive but I think att1 updated rooted stock rom w/sideloading is in the form of pd98img.zip file which u need to put on on your SD card but not in a folder. Then turn off fastboot in settings, power off your phone, then while holding down the vol down button push your power button. The phone should boot into hboot where it will search for the pd98img for a few seconds then ask you to update. Once it's done you can reboot & delete the file off your SD card cause it's around 300 or so mb. Once your all done with that you also might want to get the matching ril file for the new radio that's in the update which you can flash in cwr.
Sent from my Inspire 4G using XDA Premium App