It seems that since more developers are leaving XDA, and members are flocking to there forums or other android forums. Now I know XDA for quiet some time. I just wish they change some of the ways to certain things. We probably have all developers and more. Support now for the thunderbolt is getting less. Developers who supported the thunderbolt are harder to find. At least for me, I feel like I might need a change very soon since the support for the thunderbolt has lessen.
All I am trying to say is why XDA can't just adapt and have disclaimers for users to understand they need to READ to understand there device and what they are doing to it. Root , and roms updating has risk. People need to ensure they cover every side they read before they do anything on there device.
I like the "thanks" system on xda but to me it really seems there needs to be a way of giving individual posts negative feedback. most social surfing websites have this feature and the ones that implement it well really improve their posting community. The steps are quite simple:
1. Create a social currency (already exists in the thanks meter system)
2. promote the currency so that users really value it, create a culture based on the currency (hardest step)
3. give users the power to say "yay or nay" on any post and again push the culture to participate
4. Add to or detract from the users currency balance based on the votes their posts receive.
5. Below a certain threshold the posts become invisible unless you specifically want to see them
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
mthe0ry said:
I like the "thanks" system on xda but to me it really seems there needs to be a way of giving individual posts negative feedback. most social surfing websites have this feature and the ones that implement it well really improve their posting community. The steps are quite simple:
1. Create a social currency (already exists in the thanks meter system)
2. promote the currency so that users really value it, create a culture based on the currency (hardest step)
3. give users the power to say "yay or nay" on any post and again push the culture to participate
4. Add to or detract from the users currency balance based on the votes their posts receive.
5. Below a certain threshold the posts become invisible unless you specifically want to see them
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You raise a good idea, but I think it can be much simpler. A simple + or - for each post would allow users to "rate" the posts. Then a simple filter that will allow users to only show posts with rating s above a certain level would suffice. Useless drivel and repetitive questions will quickly disappear from the filtered results. Any such change more than likely requires some significant updates to the forum though.
As has also been proven before, if large entities don't adapt to changing times, they can die. I don't think XDA is in danger of this yet, but it isn't quite as rich of a resource as it once was.
mthe0ry said:
I like the "thanks" system on xda but to me it really seems there needs to be a way of giving individual posts negative feedback. most social surfing websites have this feature and the ones that implement it well really improve their posting community. The steps are quite simple:
1. Create a social currency (already exists in the thanks meter system)
2. promote the currency so that users really value it, create a culture based on the currency (hardest step)
3. give users the power to say "yay or nay" on any post and again push the culture to participate
4. Add to or detract from the users currency balance based on the votes their posts receive.
5. Below a certain threshold the posts become invisible unless you specifically want to see them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this is a good idea, however I don't think it should be as simple as a hitting a negative button similar to the thanks button because it wouldn't be used right most of the time. Say I disagree with your post above, that doesn't mean its a bad post and should receive negative feedback, it just means our opinions differ (though they don't, just an example). If there were a few reasons like; trolling, negative comment towards fellow member (including racism/sexism/any ism's, lol), and maybe a repeat topic/question for all the new threads that get started multiple times a day because the op didn't look for the answer first (which would work better if there was a sticky with info or links to info such as what root and other root related things are and links to how to's). Then once posts reach a certain number of negative feedback for the same "offense" that comment would then be hidden with the reason shown.
Where is everyone going to?
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
As far as I know only 2 dev teams left and that due to being treated poorly by people not taking the time to read through threads and follow instructions.
Both of their roms are still available at their personal sites
teambamf.com and themikmik.com
teambamf.net
hopefully they'll get their issues sorted out because the site hasn't been solid yet due to apparent dos attacks.
kudosmog said:
teambamf.net
hopefully they'll get their issues sorted out because the site hasn't been solid yet due to apparent dos attacks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Site is back now for Team BAMF
Trident said:
We're back!
wifiguru and I have been working tirelessly all night moving Team BAMF Forums over to a new server and installing a fresh copy of vBulletin. After doing so, we noticed that our issues were not quite resolved as there was a bot submitting approximately 1000 requests per second to port 80 which was causing the server to reach a state of low memory and overload the CPU. We've beefed up our firewall and limited the amount of requests a single IP address can issue per second which should prevent such an attack in the future. Let it be known that this was indeed an attack on our website though. Pretty lame and immature, huh?
Anyways, we're terribly sorry for the downtime! I don't think we'll be seeing much of that in the days to come..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you really think this site and smartphone growth/development isn't bigger than the TBolt, BAMF and Chingy? Maybe a big blow to you personally or Tbolt community here but come on XDA probably has WAY more members than it had last year and will have WAY more next year than it has this year. And you can bet these "flocks" going to their personal sites are still small and will always be compared to XDA's Tbolt (and other) communities. I'm personally not joined to the hip to any dev's work so if I really dont like the dev's alternate site or there isn't sufficient information there's always another virtually identicle or simular enough rom on XDA to switch over to.
I came here to post about my experience with rooted TBolt, but I cannot post in those threads... Not enough posts. This is very frustrating. It pushes me to go search some alternative ways to talk with developers.
Bad spelling and grammar don't help, either...
stanlalee said:
you really think this site and smartphone growth/development isn't bigger than the TBolt, BAMF and Chingy? Maybe a big blow to you personally or Tbolt community here but come on XDA probably has WAY more members than it had last year and will have WAY more next year than it has this year. And you can bet these "flocks" going to their personal sites are still small and will always be compared to XDA's Tbolt (and other) communities. I'm personally not joined to the hip to any dev's work so if I really dont like the dev's alternate site or there isn't sufficient information there's always another virtually identicle or simular enough rom on XDA to switch over to.
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Click to collapse
You really think tbolt devs are the only ones leaving?
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium App
For those of you familiar with Linux distros and their forums, think of it like this: devs here are more like the kind of people you'd find on the Arch or Gentoo forums--they believe (rightfully) that anyone who even considers flashing roms should already know the answers to these questions. And if they honestly don't, the documentation or Google are only a click away.
Now the newbie users, they're more like the kind of people you find on ubuntu forums- people who got sick of the boring factory junk that their device came with, so they switched to this new thing they heard about through a friend and realized too late that it's not as stupid simple as clicking 'next' again and again when installing programs in windows.
You can see the clash that these groups would have...
Two things: there should be a 'newbie' subforum just like EVERY other major project on the internet does, where the questions would be asked and FAQ's could be posted and pinned. And second, the lack of all-inclusive documentation needed to bridge the gap between the two groups is only forcing them further apart.
I had no problem flashing bamf sense 3.0, or changing scripts in init.d because I'm used to looking up the answers on the internet and know how to tell what's junk and what's not. But a lot of users don't. Hence, the need for an all-inclusive newbie subforum with how-to's and FAQ's and such.
I'd be more than happy to contribute to such an endeavor with the admins' blessing too
sent from my rooted Thunderbolt with das BAMF 3.0 rc4
admiralspark said:
because I'm used to looking up the answers on the internet and know how to tell what's junk and what's not. But a lot of users don't. Hence, the need for an all-inclusive newbie subforum with how-to's and FAQ's and such.
I'd be more than happy to contribute to such an endeavor with the admins' blessing too
sent from my rooted Thunderbolt with das BAMF 3.0 rc4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly my issue...I know what I want to with my TBOLT, but haven't bc of all the junk out on the web for rooting. Id love some one on one support if anyone is willing to help
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
BAMF has said repeatedly that they did not leave due to anything any users said/did. They left for another reason.
Chingy left for some user related issues still contributes greatly to the community.
Both groups still contribute to TB development and will continue to from their sites. Either way most of the development spawns across multiple forums anyway so I dont see any development slowing down in the future.
From the looks of most of the questions asked on the thunderbolt subforum (since many would be better asked or looked for in the general forums), I would gather that most that frequent it think that this forum == xda, which is not true. Compared to the other forums, this one is far more juvenile and dramatic. People are not "leaving" in droves in any other forums nor are developers. Sometimes I think the thunderbolt was the officially endorsed phone of 4chan.
Anyways, xda is not dying. One would think that though if all they read is the thunderbolt forums though
I dont' mind helping the noobs, but sometimes the more obvious questions can wear on you and all you want to say is RTFM, which is probably what the developers that left wanted to say as well. I don't think those that do say such things do it out of being mean, but do it more out of frustration that all the help and advice they might give in the past is just in vain/futility.
As already mentioned. There are two crowds on xda. The mint/ubuntu/what is ubuntu types that will 99% of the time need spoon fed even after helping past the basic stuff and the arch/debian/slackware types that know how to look for information themselves. Those two groups rarely ever seem to "get" each other anyways as also mentioned.
I think as far as the developers are concerned they just want to do their own thing and that's more than understandable! What I don't understand is why shoot yourself in the foot by leaving a huge market like xda (4 million members). If it's personal reasons I can understand but what better way to get more attention than being on multiple forums.
Xda isn't perfect and never will be but I'm not giving up hope that it can be better and moderation is gonna go way up from here on out that's a promise. Another problem is there aren't many mods in thunderbolt section (2 that i know of) but I plan on bringing that up so we can get some more help in here.
The noob sub forum probably won't happen, don't want to alienate new members. What can be done is improved stickies which is being done as I type. There will always be members who ask before searching but with improved stickies it will reduce it.
Some moderating from the mods would be nice too. They should be deleting unuseful posts like "search" and cursing. The problem is when you search for issues you find other threads but the conversation inside them is "search" followed by a pissing contest. Stickies with more information would help and I like the feature that searches for you when you create a new thread. Everyone needs to respect each other here. That's when the mods need to step in and start laying down the ban hammer and warnings. I'd love to help in that department.
Agreed, but a small team will have all sorts of trouble trying to moderate a userbase of 4 million...but we could all help to reduce the number of questions if there was a single source of information to send new users to. So, I'll begin writing up some things tonight (RL class for now).
On a side note, if you'd like some one-on-one help, I'm more than happy to do so through pm/chat/skype/whatever. Everyone started at square one once upon a time
sent from my rooted Thunderbolt with das BAMF 3.0 rc4
I've already created a sticky guide, I'm still working on it as I go feel free to add what ever yall feel necessary!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1168433
Related
To all of those who feel it necessary to create a separate forum for you rom, please stop. I understand that donations do not make you a lot of money, and that the pay per hour of cooking is probably well under the minimum wage in most countries. And, that opening new forums allows you to collect your own ad revenues, or maybe even harvest emails.
The amazing roms that come out of XDA are the result of collaboration between the thousands of people working out one fix at a time. Moving that knowledge else where creates a headache for people who simply want support for your rom.
Sometimes the XDA format can be a drag.
Having only one thread for an entire rom can bury good information, but...
searching through a thread is a lot less of a mess than having to sign up for a new forum every time you want to get the newest version of a rom, or find a fix implemented by a chef.
I understand that a chef's roms are the fruits of his or her efforts, and that he or she can do what they please with them (according to some interpreations of the law). But much of the progress that allows us to cook came as a result of people openly sharing information on XDA.
I don't see the problem it's really the person decision making the rom. I really hate searching through hundreds of posts to find info and would like to be able to have an easier way. I wish my rom did have it's own forum. Its not like they cant ask here or the rom cant be posted here. I am sure the cooker will support both since he will receive donations from both sources.
Use search link in my sign, its a lot easier and faster to search this forum. I agree there is tons of information in here. And most of all, anything that you can think of has been asked before, all you have to know is how to search, and you will find the information you want. So starting a new thread unless you are contributing is just waste of server space!
I'll take this spot to reinforce what Travito says in the next post. Phoenix is a community driven rom and the Phoenix forum helps us prioritize what we include in a build, the fixes we do and allows us to have a very collaborative process. We do post general fixes on xda.
The OP also doesn't realize the collaboration that goes on behind the scenes between the chefs, moderators and other developers that drive the general improvements in all of the roms that are being produced. This is especially true in the Kaiser community. It is this sharing that drives innovation and improvements. This process isn't necessarily one that I would want out in the open since it is iterative and tedious at times. It takes a long time to fix bugs but we all share our experiences.
One last thing, we on the Phoenix team do NOT accept donations, solicit donations or put advertising on our forum...You see we do this because we believe in helping the community. I am not disrespecting those chefs that accept donations because circumstances vary and needs vary. I am just stating that a private forum is NOT about making money.
Parley
okay, now that my little gaffe is out of the way from being in Parley's account when i posted that, though I'm sure his opinions are similar...
We on the Phoenix team have a seperate forum because it allows for easier bug tracking. XDA threads consist mainly of "Thank yous" so it seems, and you need to realize that we all have normal jobs and social lives. When we do get time to dedicate to XDA, it becomes very tedious and time consuming trying to sort through all the thank yous and trying to figure out which issues have already been addressed by fellow Phoenix users and which are still open.
PDC lets us bug track much more similarly to a piece of Helpdesk or Knowledgebase software, except the Forum basis allows for collaboration on solutions.
Most problems that get posted at PDC are ROM-specific, and not present on every ROM. If we find a fix that others could use back at XDA, we let the other chefs that we work with know and share the knowledge.
If that bothers you then I suppose your problem is actually with the advancement of ROM support and task management.
I'm behind whatever the Chef's feel they need to do and Travito is spot on with the ammount of work just to bypass thankyou or the monotomous problem that has been answered a million times......
Without the chefs here i would have a very dull phone, infact no i would have an n73
So to chefs do as you wish just produce the awesome ROMs you do!! And i wont make a new thread!! JK
Yeah um who cares? Private forums are good for cooking teams and anyone who wants to follow the ROM dev closer.
soulbandaid said:
To all of those who feel it necessary to create a separate forum for you rom, please stop. I understand that donations do not make you a lot of money, and that the pay per hour of cooking is probably well under the minimum wage in most countries. And, that opening new forums allows you to collect your own ad revenues, or maybe even harvest emails.
The amazing roms that come out of XDA are the result of collaboration between the thousands of people working out one fix at a time. Moving that knowledge else where creates a headache for people who simply want support for your rom.
Sometimes the XDA format can be a drag.
Having only one thread for an entire rom can bury good information, but...
searching through a thread is a lot less of a mess than having to sign up for a new forum every time you want to get the newest version of a rom, or find a fix implemented by a chef.
I understand that a chef's roms are the fruits of his or her efforts, and that he or she can do what they please with them (according to some interpreations of the law). But much of the progress that allows us to cook came as a result of people openly sharing information on XDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you know u shouldnt have started a new thread for this, your just wasting space this thread should be closed and thread starter should be warned of starting this bogus thread in the kaiser rom dev forum
msd24200 said:
you know u shouldnt have started a new thread for this, your just wasting space this thread should be closed and thread starter should be warned of starting this bogus thread in the kaiser rom dev forum
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Click to collapse
why ? I think a lot of good info and intentions came from it.....if there is nothing to hide then why curtail legit threads..huh? if you do not like the threads do not read it..simple
..free flow of info is important to this site..remember the only dumb questionis the one not ask.
OP got the answers he was looking for, and some darn good ones...i to was wondering why private forums were being created instead of being kept on this site...
F2504x4 said:
why ? I think a lot of good info and intentions came from it.....if there is nothing to hide then why curtail legit threads..huh? if you do not like the threads do not read it..simple
..free flow of info is important to this site..remember the only dumb questionis the one not ask.
OP got the answers he was looking for, and some darn good ones...i to was wondering why private forums were being created instead of being kept on this site...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Frankly, I used to follow XDA and loved it. But there are so many egotistical, immature, thread Nazis and other not so nice users, lot's of time is wasted reading their nonsense. Anyway, yesterday was the 1st day back after months and I was skeptical about the Phoenix team, but after reading this thread, I'm going to check them out for sure.
--G
F2504x4 said:
why ? I think a lot of good info and intentions came from it.....if there is nothing to hide then why curtail legit threads..huh? if you do not like the threads do not read it..simple
..free flow of info is important to this site..remember the only dumb questionis the one not ask.
OP got the answers he was looking for, and some darn good ones...i to was wondering why private forums were being created instead of being kept on this site...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DOES NOT AID IN "KAISER ROM DEVELOPMENT" enough said
I am not sure where to go to ask this but can we get some mod attention in threads. It is hard for a newb or someone to come into the dev section and weed through 100+ pages of fluff and stuff to try and figure out what's up with a ROM. Can we please get the mods to start modding?...a lot of stuff in a these threads can be removed and maybe consolidated. I must say I am getting frustrated trying to read threads to see if any of the ROMs have FFC capability in yahoo because it is not a major issue to some of the devs and it is one of the major needs I have so I try to read through threads to see if it was mentioned only to go page after page of nothing but chatting....
I am not trying to step on any toes or anything just asking if we can get some garbage clearing around the boards...
case in point 5 pages on a thread before a ROM was even posted minutes ago...I love that we hav an active community but...come on.
The mods work for free, do a decent job of removing things that actually violate XDA's ToS and there is a pretty kick ass search feature built in to the site. What may be idle banter and useless thread clutter to you is probably important, helpful information to the people involved in those topics. How many people see people discussing FFC issues or IM service issues and consider it a waste of thread space?
Not trying to piss in your puddle or nothin, but I like that everyone can discuss what they want and our voices aren't silenced arbitrarily by unpaid moderators.★
★Mods feel free to arbitrarily delete this post.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
TJBunch1228 said:
The mods work for free, do a decent job of removing things that actually violate XDA's ToS and there is a pretty kick ass search feature built in to the site. What may be idle banter and useless thread clutter to you is probably important, helpful information to the people involved in those topics. How many people see people discussing FFC issues or IM service issues and consider it a waste of thread space?
Not trying to piss in your puddle or nothin, but I like that everyone can discuss what they want and our voices aren't silenced arbitrarily by unpaid moderators.★
★Mods feel free to arbitrarily delete this post.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I see your point....tell me how a person new to the boards can read through 200+ pages for one ROM?..search only goes so far...the development board is supposed to be about the development of a ROM not talk back and forth about a coming soon or mindless banter from several weeks ago just adding to page after page of nothing related to the ROM...like I said before glad we have an active community but would be nice at some point they work to make the threads little more manageable for readers. Some might consider it a waste of space but to be fair it is an issue related to the ROM not "are you gonna get that uploaded today?"
fair enough, though you could have made a backup, flashed a rom, checked yahoo, and restored in the amount of time it took you to make these posts, let alone read through several pages of a thread.
Well true that...fair enough although I am not weeding through the threads just looking for that and I also start at the end and work backwards...the mods do do it for free here but they took that upon themselves...
Easy steps for your problem
1. Go back to stock ROM
2. Unroot your phone
This should save you alot of time spent reading unecessary threads (such as this one)
beezie916 said:
While I see your point....tell me how a person new to the boards can read through 200+ pages for one ROM?..search only goes so far...the development board is supposed to be about the development of a ROM not talk back and forth about a coming soon or mindless banter from several weeks ago just adding to page after page of nothing related to the ROM...like I said before glad we have an active community but would be nice at some point they work to make the threads little more manageable for readers. Some might consider it a waste of space but to be fair it is an issue related to the ROM not "are you gonna get that uploaded today?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay i'm going to bust some chops here.
1) The development community here at XDA has always been one of the top notch communities on the known planet. The devs around here do an amazing job. and i applaud them. they have done nothing less then amazing work, and they only thing they ask for is a "thanks" or a small donation... and rarely ask for money.
2) they have always started one thread per ROM design. Look at TeamRoyal they have several different ROM styles and several different threads. They use these threads as feedback. They read through them to see what people are saying so they can make changes accordingly. The one really long thread, will do more good for them then starting a new one per new ROM release.
3) the [OP] will 9 out of 10 times will include a log to indicate what has been fixed in the first post. We can quickly and easily use this to see what problems have been fixed. So reading the 200 pages will tend to be boring and pointless. But to the one person who sees __________ as being a problem can voice their opinion and see if anyone has a known fix for it.
4) if you are reading page one through x on a ROM that has 8 different updates you have no one to blame but your self. the earlier the post the lower version of the ROM it's related to. You ought to look for when the post was edited then go to the back back and start reading. And go backwards until you hit the date and time which the [OP] was edited. It's not rocket science.
lowandbehold said:
Easy steps for your problem
1. Go back to stock ROM
2. Unroot your phone
This should save you alot of time spent reading unecessary threads (such as this one)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I lul'd with heartiness.
I see the OP's POV... But as a modder of these phones you kinda have to sit there and read hundreds of pages. All of this stuff is trial and error so i think what you see as useless clutter is normal and needed so that the developers can perfect these ROMs. Not to be a **** or anything but all this hacking isn't four everyone. And if you don't have the patience to sit and read through pages of stuff then he or she shouldn't be getting into all of this.
Sent from my HTC Panache using XDA Premium App
beezie916 said:
I am not sure where to go to ask this but can we get some mod attention in threads. It is hard for a newb or someone to come into the dev section and weed through 100+ pages of fluff and stuff to try and figure out what's up with a ROM. Can we please get the mods to start modding?...a lot of stuff in a these threads can be removed and maybe consolidated. I must say I am getting frustrated trying to read threads to see if any of the ROMs have FFC capability in yahoo because it is not a major issue to some of the devs and it is one of the major needs I have so I try to read through threads to see if it was mentioned only to go page after page of nothing but chatting....
I am not trying to step on any toes or anything just asking if we can get some garbage clearing around the boards...
case in point 5 pages on a thread before a ROM was even posted minutes ago...I love that we hav an active community but...come on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Towards the bottom of every forum page, you will see a list of the moderators assigned to the forum. If you see some things out of place, please take a few moments to send a PM requesting a cleanup.
I completely agree with the OP. There are many useless posts on every single thread (sometimes to just say one word + 10char... That is not helpful to anyone at all, and neither are posts to just say "Thanks".. That's what the damn Thanks buttons are for), but it's pointless voicing your thoughts on this.. You will simply get bashed, told to go elsewhere or told that you don't appreciate the community's work.
I've learned that this is just one of those things you have to let go and just put up with it.
Not trying to get into a pissing match here, just pointing out that in the same sense of hitting the damn thanks button, moderators are listed and a PM system is in place. Posting a thread invites general discussion. If the problem truly exists with the moderators it should be privately discussed with them. By its very nature a thread in the general section is either a shot at the moderators or a shot at the community, neither of which are fair imo.
Why are some so ignorant and believe the world must cater to them, don't mind the other 100,000 ppl here... SMH
Sent from my demonSPEED Glacier using XDA Premium App
I agree that often there is clutter and light-hearted banter stuck in the middle of otherwise-technical info. But you know, be careful what you wish for. If it's annoying or problematic to wade through a 200+ page thread, look at the flipside of the coin. I've been in many forums where, for one reason or another, problems and discord started to reign, with everyone having a problem with everything, and then after a while, they WISHED they could have threads with 200+ pages, since 3/4 of the people left in frustration.
As for the same info being in different places, other than some automatic, intelligent, self healing mindmap plugin to the forum software being available, this is what it is. Think of it as a magazine. Some ads, some fluff, but lots of great articles. Leaf through it, and enjoy.
Reading all those pages on development and rom threads have made it so I don't have to ask another repeated question and annoy our devs to the point of quiting. They make you more self sufficient with your phone and modding it.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
It's funny
You know its funny that this thread is asking to get other threads cleaned up. I'm just posting this comment to try and reach my 10 comments so I can post in the developer section. This is ****ing bull****. What a horrible policy.
You could always ask your questions in Q&A. Or post in General about whatever it is you wish to say. It's 10 posts, how much frustration can there possibly be.
thederekjay said:
Why are some so ignorant and believe the world must cater to them, don't mind the other 100,000 ppl here... SMH
Sent from my demonSPEED Glacier using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
I agree with you!! Nothing was handed to me on a silver platter. I did my own research and didnt ask for much help in return!! Yes the threads will have some clutter, Just seems like people are a little lazy these days and want the fast anser, or to have it done for them... Just Sayin
Ok............
Its generally not the done thing to go into a dev thread and start deleting posts unless they are seriously off topic.
In which case the dev would probably have told the offender to stfu anyway....
If however, there is a real need for a thread to be cleaned then have a look for your relevant mod at the foot of the page and drop us a pm.
Seeing a thread like this feels a little like a slap in the face to be honest. As mentioned we do this for free, in our spare time. I haven't been through here for a few days as I've been busy outside of XDA so I apologise if a few [Q]'s have built up in general or development but I'd like to think that any serious matters would have been reported.....
Also, it's possible to search an individual thread, saves you reading all 200 pages....
Not that 200 is a lot for a ROM thread
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face......
Please stop bickering, life is too short, banter binds a community together. Peace and love. Ps. I have cancer! Makes you think!
Sent from gt i9000 insanity 8.5/fugumod
You've probably read the new Operation Iron Fist going on here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=1159
As of now, I will no longer stand for the way some things are going here. If I see ANY trolling, flaming, or disrespectful behaviour, you will receive an infraction on the spot. No more warnings.
Also, offtopic chatter on the development forums is exceptionally high here. This will stop, since I will also infract upon it.
Just one more thing: if you encounter ANY of above mentioned offences, let me know ASAP, instead of foulmouthing about it on the public forum. If I see that, you WILL get an infraction too.
I am sorry for acting this way, but you guys are forcing me to do this.
Sounds good to me, unless "iron fist" translates in reality to Naziism.
There's a difference in insulting people, and trying to contribute and being attacked. I tried to contribute by pointing out that there were several bugs that were fairly severe. If a user doesn't point them out, what's the point of ever releasing anything beyond 1.0 and then closing the thread?
However, there's a small group of users in the community who have resorted to fanaticism, and when someone goes that direction it shouldn't be tolerated. When I get criticized for bringing up a bug, and told I'm a "habitual complainer" how is that supposed to encourage anyone to want to participate in the DEVELOPMENT of anything for any phone? For some reason the Infuse 4G participants who I'm referring to seem really on edge, and speak out (often personally) about anyone who says anything aside from praise.
We're not here to be reassured that the world is 100% good, and that everything everyone says is amazing, we're here to participate in an active development community, be it as a developer, or as a contributing end user. The moment you criticize your user base is the moment you go from being an open community of developers and end users to a system of dictatorship, and closed platformism (yeah, it's a word now because I said so), lol.
To the people who squash anyone who's new, or doesn't know something, or volunteers that they're having a problem and need help, STOP. There's no need to make someone feel bad for asking a question a second time in a 3000+ post thread and then criticizing them for not reading the answer in post 2106 on page 291. There's no need to tell someone they are full of crap when they say they're having internet speed issues, and that since it works for you to your satisfaction that they're obviously less intelligent. There's no reason to tell someone they're wrong just because you disagree with them.
To make this a "community" everyone has to be understanding that everyone has their opinions, and that we're all here to make the phone in whatever thread a better phone.
Without developers, this site wouldn't exist. Without end users wanting mods, this site wouldn't exist. If you continue to alienate anyone who's new and turn this into a fanboy forum, it's just going to send them back to Apple iOS forums and devices. If that's how you want to help turn the mobile community, fine, but personally, I don't.
Bella
True to some extent. But the main problem is this:
NeoS2007 said:
Just one more thing: if you encounter ANY of above mentioned offences, let me know ASAP, instead of foulmouthing about it on the public forum. If I see that, you WILL get an infraction too.
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Most people here think they can say ANYTHING to ANYONE. That's not what this forum is about. It's aimed at development and not discussion. If you feel you should debate in any way, move to another forum.
And you can call my method anything you like, I used to warn everyone before acting, but that's over. You of all people should know that.
I'm not about to take any sides, but Bella, you're completely out of line. Being part of the community is different than creating your own community. This is a group working together towards a common goal. To reach that goal, we must provide detailed, factual and documented information to the dev(s) so that we can enable them to create the best possible releases. I've seen no images, logcat, etc. that was provided by you. Granted, there are several others in the forum not providing these details, but there are several who have provided very specific and detailed information. It took far too long for you to provide this kind of information and it only turned the conversation south. You are not alone, so know I am not singing you out; there were several others who contributed to a negative environment. The reason for my posting this is because you were the only one to come here and plead your case.
That said, this is a community filled with individuals. We all have different personalities and will act and react differently to different scenarios. Hopefully this can be the beginning of a constructive and collaborative effort by us all to truly bring our Infuse to the next level.
I will not retort nor reply, I am simply sharing my views and experiences in this forum so far. The Captivate started off rough, but never reached this level. It won't be easy resurrecting this one from the ashes, but it can be done.
Right, you say I was unable to provide any factual data, yet I responded each time with factual and accurate data that was requested by GTG. I think some people get frustrated because often issues that come up are issues they just don't know how to solve, and often that leads to accusations that the end user is crazy, unintelligent, or just uncooperative, when the case is the opposite.
Clearly in the end I identified a data connectivity issue first (review thread if you like) that's been significant enough for him now to pull the ROM until he can resolve the issue. Rather than fellow members responding with productive comments, they responded in an attacking manor. My point was valid (as vetted by GTG at this point), and for those who weren't having the issue, why pipe in and say there's no problem? Do you take your car to the mechanic and tell him everything is working fine?
Initially I was called a complainer for bringing it to the attention. Unfortunately as a developer you can't expect that an end user is always going to be able to provide the detail you need. If I had the experience and desire to build a ROM I'd do it myself. It's kinda like building a house then expecting to know where to find a pipe junction inside a wall that only you know where it is. There's only so much expectation you can have of the end users.
Additionally, this is not the Google Developers Forum. This is not a forum of official Android releases, this is a hobbyist community of people who want to tinker with their phone. If a developer wants to be in an environment of developing for Google, maybe they ought to apply for a position at google.com/jobs. The ROMs that come out of XDA are great, but we have to realize there is nothing official about anything that comes from these forums.
I think the comment should be changed from "development, not discussion" to development and on-topic discussion. Because if you discourage discussion, it's like discouraging shopping in a mall. Discussion is what makes a forum like this great.
I'll certainly commit to staying on topic in the future.
Have at it neo. Thanks
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997R using XDA App
Bella, you never provided the data requested. You just compared two modems - this was NOT what gtg asked for. He asked you to compare 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 performance. After looking through the thread, I'm fairly certain never provided this information, you just maintained that you had provided the requested data because of your modem comparison tests.
Perhaps you were under the mistaken impression that 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 was a modem firmware change - if you had opened the update zip to analyze the contents you would see that it was not. There's a reason gtg specifically asked you to compare 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 and not to compare UCKE3 vs UXKG3 modems, and the latter is what you did.
Also, the network connectivity issue was only one of the reasons gtg pulled the ROM. He was trying to be nice, but the poor attitude of many users in the thread was a MAJOR contribution to the ROM pull also. In addition to that, at least two developers have stated either in posts here or on IRC that they are extremely uneasy about releasing any ROM images on these forums because of the poor behavior on these threads. It is also why I currently have a "no support, don't PM me" policy for the kernel I released - it was the only solution to getting experienced users the build that many were asking for without subjecting myself to the painful experience gtg did.
PLEASE have at it! I haven't visited this forum in a few years (iPhone) and now that i'm back with an Infuse this place isn't anything like it use to be.
My 2cents.
Entropy512 said:
Bella, you never provided the data requested. You just compared two modems - this was NOT what gtg asked for. He asked you to compare 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 performance. After looking through the thread, I'm fairly certain never provided this information, you just maintained that you had provided the requested data because of your modem comparison tests.
Perhaps you were under the mistaken impression that 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 was a modem firmware change - if you had opened the update zip to analyze the contents you would see that it was not. There's a reason gtg specifically asked you to compare 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 and not to compare UCKE3 vs UXKG3 modems, and the latter is what you did.
Also, the network connectivity issue was only one of the reasons gtg pulled the ROM. He was trying to be nice, but the poor attitude of many users in the thread was a MAJOR contribution to the ROM pull also. In addition to that, at least two developers have stated either in posts here or on IRC that they are extremely uneasy about releasing any ROM images on these forums because of the poor behavior on these threads. It is also why I currently have a "no support, don't PM me" policy for the kernel I released - it was the only solution to getting experienced users the build that many were asking for without subjecting myself to the painful experience gtg did.
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Understood. I provided what he asked to the best of my ability at the time ... I'd reference my post but I'm not digging through a 3000 message thread, sorry. :-(
Matt-Helm said:
PLEASE have at it! I haven't visited this forum in a few years (iPhone) and now that i'm back with an Infuse this place isn't anything like it use to be.
My 2cents.
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The Inspire and Aria forums were much more friendly, it's not this site, it's just the Infuse forum in general. I had a very positive experience in the Inspire threads
I think it was not the fact that you raised an issue that bothered the developers, it was the manner in which it was raised.
Also, look at it from a developer's perspective - when the thread is filled with posts that clearly indicate that the poster didn't even read the first post of the thread in its entirety (not saying that you did this, but many others did), it gets massively frustrating.
I've never seen so many people completely fail to read/comprehend the first post of a thread as the Infused v2 thread. Even after it was put into the first post as a known issue, we still got reports of HDMI not working every 3-4 pages.
After what could be effectively described only as an all-weekend hack session two weekends ago, everyone's been a bit exhausted/burned out. But everyone keeps demanding MORE MORE MORE!
Entropy512 said:
Also, look at it from a developer's perspective - when the thread is filled with posts that clearly indicate that the poster didn't even read the first post of the thread in its entirety (not saying that you did this, but many others did), it gets massively frustrating.
I've never seen so many people completely fail to read/comprehend the first post of a thread as the Infused v2 thread. Even after it was put into the first post as a known issue, we still got reports of HDMI not working every 3-4 pages.
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I agree 100% ... the only thing I can say is that remember that many people come from iphone, aka the dev team blog, which is much different. On theirs you read from the bottom up. I don't think that's an excuse since XDA uses the globally accepted standard in forums. But yeah, last night there were about 25 people in an hour asking why the links didn't work, lol.
Not really sure if this is on topic or not.... I just looked up "Iron Fisting" and this was the first result http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=iron fisting
Holy cow! The mods/admins mean business!
AdamOutler said:
Not really sure if this is on topic or not.... I just looked up "Iron Fisting" and this was the first result http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=iron fisting
Holy cow! The mods/admins mean business!
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I know my mouth (and legs) will be shut going forward.
Bravo Neo. Bravoooooooooooooo.
Thank you!
Looking forward to seeing a cleaned up forum!
by the way? how do u become an admin?
i spend way to much time on here...even while im at work (because its my job relates highly to this)
AdamOutler said:
Not really sure if this is on topic or not.... I just looked up "Iron Fisting" and this was the first result http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=iron fisting
Holy cow! The mods/admins mean business!
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(removed comment)
looking forward to clean and healthy forum.
I hope I'm not going to make any enemies by saying this, but I can't say I entirely agree with this being an iron fist. So far all that has been done is the Infused v2 ROM thread was locked. On any other forum I frequent they start with punishing the offenders individually, and only lock the thread as a last resort. I didn't see anybody get personally warned and I didn't see anybody get banned, and it really was only a handful that caused problems. I know there were a LOT of people that were posting the same questions over and over, but that can't be helped most of the time. The ones that were bickering and really ruining the thread are still posting happy as can be. I know it sounds like I'm questioning the mod(s) or being ungrateful, but I don't mean it that way. I just feel like we lost the ability to have an important and fun discussion before all the possible options were explored. Now if gtg asked for the thread to be locked then that is an entirely different matter, but I didn't get that impression from reading the last post.
I really do enjoy these forums and always have, and feel like this board is run very well. By this board, I mean the Infuse board. I just wanted to say that I don't know if I entirely agree with the way the infused thread was handled.
EDIT: I wanted to add that I know the mod(s) do this for free in their spare time, and I know that you can't police it 24/7. I really do appreciate your efforts at running this board, and the ONLY thing that I've seen that I take "issue" with is the handling of the Infused thread. Maybe there are things behind the scenes that I didn't see, and if that is the case then I apologize.
The Infused forum is only locked temporarily, as I asked the dev to contact me when his rom is finished.
Thanks for your support people. Just remember to report anything that's offensive/disrespectful/wrong/etc. and I'll take care of it.
NeoS2007 said:
The Infused forum is only locked temporarily, as I asked the dev to contact me when his rom is finished.
Thanks for your support people. Just remember to report anything that's offensive/disrespectful/wrong/etc. and I'll take care of it.
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I did see where it was locked only temporarily. I just wanted to get that off my chest, so to speak. It wasn't REALLY bugging me, but I did get pretty frustrated with how people were acting. It was pretty ridiculous. Like I said before, I really do appreciate your efforts to keep our forums running smoothly. Thank you for your continued presence and work, and for not taking my post personally, (at least I don't think you did ).
I understand that here, on XDA, you get nice and civilized answers if your thanks-meter is high. My question is: Is the XDA strategy built to make users leave XDA for other communities? Or is it just that the arrogance is directly proportional with the thanks-meter?
Ruwin said:
I understand that here, on XDA, you get nice and civilized answers if your thanks-meter is high. My question is: Is the XDA strategy built to make users leave XDA for other communities? Or is it just that the arrogance is directly proportional with the thanks-meter?
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I understand that here, on XDA, you get nice and civilized answers if your thanks-meter is high.
Not really true.
Is the XDA strategy built to make users leave XDA for other communities?
There is no XDA strategy. It's just a place for people to tinker with their phones.
Or is it just that the arrogance is directly proportional with the thanks-meter?
No it is not directly proportional to the thanks meter.
There are a lot of grumpy people around though.
I think the best thing you can do is to report arrogance and hope the user gets some sort of warning. I have also witnessed some comments that were unnecessary and that could really put new users off asking questions here. That is a real shame imo.
dc211 said:
There are a lot of grumpy people around though.
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Dmwitz said:
I have also witnessed some comments that were unnecessary and that could really put new users off asking questions here.
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+1 to these, some people who are new just don't understand how the forum layouts and whatnot work, but rather than being more polite about it, the more experienced ones go off at the new people. Pretty hard for the new people to get help that way.
Tapatalked from my HTC One S running CM10
I only really see "arrogance" displayed in two fashions:
1. The occasional Dev war drama. This really only happens rarely and has settled down quite a bit since some ROM devs have moved on to other devices.
2. Noob squashing. The fact is, Android is a victim of it's own success. In the G1 days, XDA was a true home for hackers to exchange information. Now that Android has such a large worldwide marketshare, more and more folks are coming here to enhance their devices and free them from their cell provider's greed and bad decisions, regardless of their technical level. I'd bet the CM10 thread could be condensed into a one page FAQ which would eliminate hundreds of pages of repeat questions, but in reality, the types of people that frustrate us so much wouldn't even take the time to read that. The only solution here is help or ignore...flaming just triples the number of pages dedicated to a noob mistake.
You get nasty responses when you refuse to read and the question has been asked soo many times.. or you post a question in the general section... or break any rules
I've had people not read the downgrade thread and pm asking what to do.. when if you read it, you realize its nearly noob proof
Sent from my HTC One X-
I think that one of the problems is that the pros try to distance themselves from the noobs. The problem with that is that the noobs will only feel more ignored and try harder to get their voice heard. It's a problem almost all forums have, but it seems more serious here on xda than anywhere else I've been. I think much of the talent here gets wasted. Answers get hidden away deep in overly long topics and poor communication skills make things worse.
I get the feeling that many of the threads here would have worked better in wiki-form, where each issue has its own page, instead of each topic.
But these are just a noob's impression after a few days here.
el_smurfo said:
The only solution here is help or ignore...flaming just triples the number of pages dedicated to a noob mistake.
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^^^ So much this. ^^^
@OP: I don't think what you're seeing is arrogance. More likely frustration. <S>About those damn n00bs who keep pissing all over 'our' forums.</S> But flinging poop at them doesn't result in neater cleaner tidier forums.. The catch22 here is that there is no real way to tell people (noobs and grumps alike) to stop polluting the forums without engaging in forum pollution yourself.
Also, it is not related to the thanks meter. If anything, the 'thanks' feature is meant to keep the forums cleaner, by eliminating "Wow thanks!"-posts.
(Maybe we need buttons for "Wrong section!" and "Use the search!" too. Actually, we do have a button for "Wrong section!", it's labeled "/!\ Report".)
-Jobo
As was previously was stated it frustration over most issues.
If people took a few seconds to try and search or post in correct sections things would be a tiny bit easier. Though since its the internet conflicts or bad attitudes will never subside
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using xda app-developers app
JN3141 said:
+1 to these, some people who are new just don't understand how the forum layouts and whatnot work, but rather than being more polite about it, the more experienced ones go off at the new people. Pretty hard for the new people to get help that way.
Tapatalked from my HTC One S running CM10
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No reason to be polite, when the answer or rules are stickied or found on the first page. For instance, development forum is only for development, and there's a sticky emphasizing that. Try they post questions there anyway.
So while it's understandable they don't know the layout yet, they can read. If they ask a question, they'll obviously be reading the post in case is has their answer. So they can just as easily read the stickies.
Not to mention, it's always good to take a moment and read stickies or the first page, before asking questions.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
No matter how wrong they are, you still don't need to get rude like I've seen happen. Yes, there are a lot of frustrating situations, but that still doesn't constitute the flaming. If you were new, maybe you might make a mistake like that, and wouldn't want to have people flaming you, it'd just get more confusing for you.
Tapatalked from my HTC One S running CM10
JN3141 said:
No matter how wrong they are, you still don't need to get rude like I've seen happen.
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Exactly. There is no excuse, ever. You either answer and help, or ignore, or report.
Making an unhelpful off-topic post to verbally smack someone in the face is a waaaay worse offense than posting in the wrong section or asking something that's already been asked and answered in the post right above it. It also has much more negative impact on the forums than some stray posts.
I see it as arrogance and frustration. There are many of us that are unseasoned in the knowledge of phones. When we have knowledge in a particular field and become wise, we sometimes become impatient with others for what is simple to us. Very few people knew years ago what they know now. Life is about development, meant to cultivate and refine, and it happens in stages or seasons. To the well-seasoned people, (pros) please try to understand our ignorance or unfamiliarity. When a noobie asks something, try to understand you didnt always know what you know. Show some humility, you can better help us by understanding we are students to the knowledge you have. When you teach, we can learn, and go away more intelligent in that field, then we can help others on a lower level. . Example: The Pros have level 10, some noobies may have level 5. But that level 5 noobie can help a level 3 noobie, easing the burden on the level 10 pro.
On the other hand, many noobies may start asking questions and expect the pro to do allllllll their work, NO GOOD. There is a friend of us all, his name is Google, he has helped me many times. I dont expect for the pros to do all of the work for me, as none of us should. We as noobies do need to spend more time reading and researching, if we fail to understand, then ask the question. Sometimes we all overlook things and it may take a noobie to make a pro recall that thing that was overlooked. As the commercial says, "you can learn alot from a dummy' (noobie). I even see some pros ride the coat tails of other pros and more or less follow their leads. If the first pro is hard on a noobie the second pro adds his two cents. Thats not necessary.
Let us both, pro and noobie, do our part to develop and keep good karma here at XDA. I do like XDA very much and recognize and respect the abundance of talent which is here. It is fascinating for us to learn and share what we know with others and to see we have helped someone. Im interested in learning and if possible over time to share what I learn with others in a humble manner. So if the community will have me, I plan on being here.
One other productive point of dialogue. I have noticed that recently when you create a new thread XDA automatically searches your subject line and shows you threads with similar subject lines. I think that is helpful.
But it all goes to show that maybe the search functions could be reviewed a bit more with newer members input.
I really like XDA btw, but just thinking about ways to make it better. It may be that those kinds of auto search functions should appear when you are posting in a thread, and not just creating a new one.
There may also be ways to make the search functions more intuitive. Sometimes, for example when you search threads (and not just posts) the default screeen sends back a bunch of threads and it becomes hard to judge which thread may actually contain the most relevant info you are looking for (since the subject line may not be helpful). There may be other info the search could show you (ie how many times the word comes up in that particular thread, etc).
I am sure XDA is always looking at ways to make things better. But it would be interesting to hear what new folks have to say and the challanges they face when searching for information.
AKToronto said:
I have noticed that recently when you create a new thread XDA automatically searches your subject line and shows you threads with similar subject lines. I think that is helpful.
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I agree with you AK, It is very helpful and a nice feature. It reduces the amount of clutter. I went looking to start a new thread on the subject titled "Arrogance vs Humility", and boom, the search suggestions showed me a few threads on the subject. It does become time consuming when cleaning up the forums. Most times when we want to know something we want it on the spot and dont take the time to look first. More so than not, the question has already been answered.
Another issue is the xda app does not have an option to filter the search results. It's pretty well useless. Main reason I switched to tapatalk.
One S | Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2 | Viper 1.2.1 | Bricked Beastmode
There's also not a lot of stickies in the Q & A section... I think we might want to start a project with moderators to propose some stickies and have folks volunteer to create and update the original posts in such stickies.
For example an RUU FAQ, and a Wifi faq, perhaps another on different hboot versions what that even means, one on custom recoveries, kernels, etc. I posted what I thought was a more comprehensive review of sd card issues people have had and fixes and asked it be moved to q & a (since the one stickied there is pretty basic and hasn't been updated). My explanation is still getting buried in the general section for now http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=36372149#post36372149... It's not a big deal though.
But I do find that really good OPs (ie original posts) can do a world of good for someone who is new. Stickies and other OPs should be updated frequently especially as people start explaining their issues.
Another good example of a post that should be stickied in Q&A but is lingering in General is http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2076086
Sent from my HTC One S using xda premium
Dmwitz said:
I think the best thing you can do is to report arrogance and hope the user gets some sort of warning. I have also witnessed some comments that were unnecessary and that could really put new users off asking questions here. That is a real shame imo.
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AGREE completely, some people just believe that just because they've been here for what seems forever and (believe) they have put in their time that they can actually treat people like they're complete idiots and that is just WRONG! I have been around for awhile and never that I can remember have ever treated members like this plus each individual may have better understandings of many other devices or aspects of several other types of electronics compared to many, than again some just are not too familiar with this or that type of device possibly because there are as we can agree slight differences in each. Why can we not just treat everyone as people of a large and (sometimes) great community also, just explain things like the way you wanted them explained to you when you first arrived or switched devices and I just received the BEST experience in my thread for the past week from 'Darknites' and another member whom I'm having issues with writing his username lol but he knows who he is. I try to learn from what has been taught to me through trial and error and lots of it but members like above stick in and help even though I know they were getting irritated lol, when I can I help those with similar issues or with issues I possibly know the answer to. PLEASE just help, no need for rude degrading comments to anyone no matter how much they may not be catching on also you can type many things in 'Google' or even in this forum's search but may not get exactly what your looking for especially like me when this is your daily driver device and can't afford or are not into testing many different devices.
Thanks.
TheCrow1372 said:
AGREE completely, some people just believe that just because they've been here for what seems forever and (believe) they have put in their time that they can actually treat people like they're complete idiots and that is just WRONG! I have been around for awhile and never that I can remember have ever treated members like this plus each individual may have better understandings of many other devices or aspects of several other types of electronics compared to many, than again some just are not too familiar with this or that type of device possibly because there are as we can agree slight differences in each. Why can we not just treat everyone as people of a large and (sometimes) great community also, just explain things like the way you wanted them explained to you when you first arrived or switched devices and I just received the BEST experience in my thread for the past week from 'Darknites' and another member whom I'm having issues with writing his username lol but he knows who he is. I try to learn from what has been taught to me through trial and error and lots of it but members like above stick in and help even though I know they were getting irritated lol, when I can I help those with similar issues or with issues I possibly know the answer to. PLEASE just help, no need for rude degrading comments to anyone no matter how much they may not be catching on also you can type many things in 'Google' or even in this forum's search but may not get exactly what your looking for especially like me when this is your daily driver device and can't afford or are not into testing many different devices.
Thanks.
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:laugh:
HELLO! Long time member here
Now its time for me to have a bit of a rant! Over the last few years, this site/forums, have gone downhill, the reason being....? Ignoring The rules and not doing things for yourselves!
I am not a mod, or admin, but I expect I speak on behalf of a large number of users/rom devs, when you see the same posts explaining the same thing again and again!
Such Enjoyable posts such as 'can I use xposed on this'. 'whats the battery like on this thing - even though the rom has just been released!!! whens the new update coming, and why not for my model?????
You see, I could never ever share a rom on here (I have made loads for myself, including a few for note 3), because of a small number of users WHO CANT POST in the right section, READ Q&A forum, or MOAN because they have bricked their handset because they have not read things properly!
XDA is a amazing site, and I have killed and revived hundreds of handsets, but people think its their god given right to expect the dev etc to hold their hands and go through every step of the flashing of roms, its a case of trial and error, the roms here are not always 100% stable, but people expect it to be! people expect the latest firmware, bits and bobs to be added all the time, the devs have real lifes, families, and jobs......they are doing you a favour....free!!
What I am saying is, please respect the devs, the forum mods, and post in correct sections!!! use search.....or a little site called google.......any of you can inbox me with any problems you have
Anyway I LOVE YOU ALL
Couldn't have said it better. I know several developers who have mostly migrated to other forums due, in large part, to the things you mentioned.
I too have put together a number of ROMs, full themes, and apps, the majority of which I've either kept for personal use, or shared only with select individuals, because it's almost become a burden to publicly release them here. Alliance has an unofficial rule where any time someone asks about an update, we postpone releasing one, but even that doesn't stop the incessant stream of repeated questions that we get (the majority of which are already answered in the OP).
A lot of the members here don't seem to understand that this is, first and foremost, a developers site, and they act as if they're entitled to something or that the devs somehow owe them something. I've never understood that mindset; Whenever I've wanted to modify something, in any way, I've put in the time (sometimes years) needed to learn how to do it myself, and if I ever got stuck, have sought guidance from more knowledgable people. That doesn't seem to happen much any more.
XDA has gone through some major changes, and has grown almost exponentially in the 9 years that I've been here, and I couldn't be happier for its' success, but some things have certainly, and unfortunately, been lost along the way.
There is also the issue of people who steal others work. The number of devs I have seen leave xda because of that is quite high. It is not ok and it is against the rules for people to do it but they still do. Once the devs who put the time in to create the mods leave nothing new happens because no one knows how to do anything without copy and paste or even have their own original ideas.
Same old same old since XDA moved from a developers forum to a forum for those that don't know and refuse to read/ learn .
I gave up years ago and try to ignore the idiot posts .
@JJEgan: You really gave up, years ago, with that post count?
Anyway, the problem is newcomers. They don't search, they don't read, but their demands are high all the same, that's the most saddening part I think.
All the ROM/ Kernel topics should have a separate Q&A section. But at the same time I think its needed to be mentioned that OP (Original Post) should contain all the needed informations too, sometimes they don't!
Yes is the answer to first question .
Only time i use the forums is nowadays for a new rom .
I've been visiting xda, as a lurker, for years (since about '07-'08) and only created an account a couple of years ago. (Hence the low/non-existant post count.) I may not have ever released any of my own fiddlings for my phone(s), but I have borrowed some of the knowledge from the fine developers and learned more about my phone(s). It also annoys the hell outta me to see so many people refusing to learn about the equipment they use everyday and expect to have people, busting their asses (on their own time & dime), just bow down and cater to the weak-minded and lazy masses. It's sad... If someone's too lazy to do the homework before they go flash happy, then I feel they deserve the bricks. I have nothing but mad respect for the devs who put their work out there, regardless of quality! To play off of what Morningstar said, I think it's great that there's a bit of a slap on the hand, from the devs, of the disrespectful, over-eager ones who get too grabby-- command respect wherever you can! HAHAHA!
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@DSA thats a great name from the past! I used to love your Blackbox roms from a couple years back, remember it used to amazing, and can remember too, that you closed your thread due to the same sort of thing.....people posting non development stuff.......I managed to sell a old s4 about 8 months back that had your rom on it (the bloke preferred a 4.4.2 rom)
DEV section should be for DEVs ONLY. There should be a category in which you have to be invited to be able to post there. Rest must go to Q/A section IMO. I am mod myself, not of a such big forum like XDA, but from ReactOS forums. Even there you have stupid children starting a rant with their first post or more often just post a stupid question answered two posts above! Same like here, just not that many ppl flooding you ^^ I started to give away free warnings and bans to minimize the negative impact we have there after any public booth we had somewhere etc. Telling ppl not to do X and Y and what are they doing? X AND Y OF COURSE! You write it in the first post in RED AND CAPS LOCK and ppl still don't read it. Then they show up to rant that their PC is dead, hamster is pregnant, phone fell into the fish tank and whatever else you might be the evil guy for. I completely second AND support that opinion of the OP.
In my opinion only Devs, Mods and Senior Members (maybe with some criteria, ex. by registration date and/or by number thanks) should be able to post on the Development section.
I would assume that most Senior Members with several years of registration, and with at least 50 thanks would know the forum rules.
Closing the Dev section only to Devs would bring very little input and feedback.
pacc said:
In my opinion only Devs, Mods and Senior Members (maybe with some criteria, ex. by registration date and/or by number thanks) should be able to post on the Development section.
I would assume that most Senior Members with several years of registration, and with at least 50 thanks would know the forum rules.
Closing the Dev section only to Devs would bring very little input and feedback.
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Thats what the Q/A is for.
emuandco said:
Thats what the Q/A is for.
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You're right, but many senior members know programming and their contribution to development would be lost in the extensive list of Q/A.
Hopefully XDA will figure something out.
I am of the opposite opinion.
Ten years ago you asked a question you got a reply. Simple and practical.
Now you have to put up with a stream of people moaning and lamenting the nerve of someone daring to ask a question that has been asked before, usually because the op has not been updated or has such useful instructions as:
Installation instructions:
1. Install
So now instead of having a simple question and answer we just have the questions and the moaners; people who conveniently forget that they had their own questions earlier and act instead as guardians of some sacred knowledge which you must trawl through a several thousand page long thread (or three or four separate threads) before being worthy to dare ask a question.
My two cents.
1. That's what the search function is for. There's a rule, search first, ask questions later. I mean if not found.
2. There's also the attitude problem with people being entitled to anything, as if they are doing a favor for using the roms. No doubt, bugs can only be found if enough people are using it, and they are beta testing it this way for the developers, but still the work here is done by the developers.
3. But this is true until a developer starts accepting donations. I believe while somebody is doing in his free time, on his own dime, he/she can decide what questions to address. But after receiving the first donation at least the real documented bugs should all be answered at least with an "I'm looking into it".
4. OP should grant moderator rights for his/her topic, and purge irrelevant stuff.
My 2c.
istperson said:
1. That's what the search function is for. There's a rule, search first, ask questions later. I mean if not found.
2. There's also the attitude problem with people being entitled to anything, as if they are doing a favor for using the roms. No doubt, bugs can only be found if enough people are using it, and they are beta testing it this way for the developers, but still the work here is done by the developers.
3. But this is true until a developer starts accepting donations. I believe while somebody is doing in his free time, on his own dime, he/she can decide what questions to address. But after receiving the first donation at least the real documented bugs should all be answered at least with an "I'm looking into it".
4. OP should grant moderator rights for his/her topic, and purge irrelevant stuff.
My 2c.
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I wholeheartedly agree with your numbers 1,2, and 4. I take exception with number 3 though. The donation is a thank you for what the person has done. Like tipping a waiter at a restaurant ... better job done .. better tip. But that is done at the end. Appreciation for a job well done. Maybe next trip you get really good service ... maybe you get someone else. My point is that making the donation doesn't give anyone the right to "expect" more. Most donations are minimal .. very nice to receive ... but normally small. So if you send someone $5 and expect more, you are putting a very small value on their time.
The majority of crap that clogs the threads is people not searching as stated previously. It's obvious that some people are just too lazy or have come to expect to be hand fed the information. They even state in the post thing like "too many post to look at" and "just don't have the time to look" ( for themselves). If I search and find the answer for them, I usually put in my post a link to the post with the answer as well as the amount of time I spent searching (usually less than a minute). This normally brings out the hatred in people, but I really don't care.
This thread has surprised me in that it hasn't turned into a battleground yet. Nice that opinions can flow and discussions can happen without the need for a mod to calm the situation. We all know it won't change anything on xda .. it is what it is. It has changed a lot since I started a few years ago. I just tend to stay in threads that are suited to my nature and with people with sense of humor like mine. The others that I follow that are not like that, I tend to remain silent(ish).
Some things like total disrespect for someones work really set me off. I have seen people tell other themers that their work is ugly or tell them how it should look. I look at their profile and they have produced nothing here. Multiple threads started about help me this and that, and request for things to be done. It just chaps my ass. But it is what it is. Anyway ... Rant over ... thanks OP for the thread.
Bubba said:
I wholeheartedly agree with your numbers 1,2, and 4. I take exception with number 3 though. The donation is a thank you for what the person has done. Like tipping a waiter at a restaurant ... better job done .. better tip. But that is done at the end. Appreciation for a job well done. Maybe next trip you get really good service ... maybe you get someone else. My point is that making the donation doesn't give anyone the right to "expect" more. Most donations are minimal .. very nice to receive ... but normally small. So if you send someone $5 and expect more, you are putting a very small value on their time.
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No you're right, I agree, it's not the value of the work just saying it's appreciated.
What I was trying to say was that if being correct only those will accept donations who are really determined to have a relatively complete rom made, and by complete I mean compared to what is announced in the OP. And if people appreciate it then at least every well documented bug report would be nice if it was acknowledged. Just to show that this is really a contribution to the development if someone gives links to logcats, and gives steps to reproduction. And by no means what is very frequent here: "This sucks, fix it!!!!!!!111111One"
istperson said:
3. But this is true until a developer starts accepting donations. I believe while somebody is doing in his free time, on his own dime, he/she can decide what questions to address. But after receiving the first donation at least the real documented bugs should all be answered at least with an "I'm looking into it".
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Your last post cleared things up a bit, and I think I get your point, but I still completely disagree with this statement.
Every developer I know here (including myself), has a 'real' job, and does development work solely as a hobby in their spare time. A donation is just that. it's not solicited or expected, it's simply a way of showing appreciation and thanking a dev for the work that they've done.
Personally, the things that I've shared here publicly and/or are included in others' releases are the product of several hundred hours (and probably more than that) of work. I've received a few donations, but the total sum doesn't even amount to one full day's pay at my 'real' job, so I would say everything I do is on 'my time' and 'my dime'.
Morningstar said:
Your last post cleared things up a bit, and I think I get your point, but I still completely disagree with this statement.
Every developer I know here (including myself), has a 'real' job, and does development work solely as a hobby in their spare time. A donation is just that. it's not solicited or expected, it's simply a way of showing appreciation and thanking a dev for the work that they've done.
Personally, the things that I've shared here publicly and/or are included in others' releases are the product of several hundred hours (and probably more than that) of work. I've received a few donations, but the total sum doesn't even amount to one full day's pay at my 'real' job, so I would say everything I do is on 'my time' and 'my dime'.
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100 percent agreed. I have spent thousands of hours on my personal theme for alliance that i freely share. Same for apps that I also share. I have received only a couple of donations. Not that I care. But they are nice. I appreciate the thanks clicked just as much.
But again the point is ... It's a thank you ... not a purchase with a promise. Knowing the people that @Morningstar and myself know through this hobby is (to me) humbling. The average user could never begin to comprehend the time and effort ... and dedication ... maybe even some OCDC ... that goes into building or theming a rom or app.
It IS hard work and I am always grateful to the amazing helpful members who make coming here enjoyable and who vastly outnumber the vocal whiny minority of spoiled douches.
My 2c ?
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Welcome to the new world,Facebook and the deliberate dumbing down of the masses.. Its no accident that the general public aren't as bright as they were,ask any teacher how new age teaching just isn't as good as the old ways.
I can see and share your frustrations but there a lot of factors
young people have more disposable income I see 12yr olds with S6s and other high end phones
young people have been spoilt and are treated like little prince/princesses because the parents are so busy earning a living they can't give them time so spoil them or try to buy their love creating needy lazy demanding kids
the general assumption is that young people are internet savvy but this is far from the truth, I see classes of kids every day in the high school years who still don't realise that you can type an address into a web browser they do a search for the same site every day and then click the link. If google was shut down the world would end for a lot of people
samsung have released so many different models and variants which wasn't the case in the past so people have a lot more issues world wide
upgrading custom roms were probably less buggy than ported roms which are released now as betas, maybe they shouldn't be? it seems to be a bit much too ask for many to comprehend
xda's popularity and some people over eagerness to help beginners encourages too many people without enough skills to attempt highly risky things
there are a lot more postings of high end roms and later versions of android onto older hardware so many more issues than in the past where it was more cosmetic adjustments and feature add ons
there are a lot more asian developers so there are a lot of roms that are released and have to be made international (more issues)
a lot of the roms threads are terrible now possibly due to different cultures again
compare note2 threads with note3 threads,note 2 were usually logical with all files in OP are now a lot of note 3 threads are a mess with sometimes note3 base note4 base s6 base and note 5 in same thread and questions and fixes are just donated randomly all through the thread by anyone rather than dev only.
I would consider myself an experienced xda lurker but following just a note 3 means trying to keep on top of many different threads to just make sense out of peoples cross thread posts its very time consuming
a lot of thread starters need to be a lot more organised in the OP and control their threads more, removing comments that are about other roms etc,I think because they know and follow all the other threads as well as there own they assume everyone reading is doing the same. I do feel sorry for someone blindly trying to get started now but a well controlled thread would make huge difference,list known bugs themselves in the OP,
Some developers might be better to hand their thread over to someone enthusiastic to control the thread on their behalf to get back to the great examples set by omega,bobcat ,phoenix ,resurrection dr keten
there are some fantastically helpful and nice people on these forums and some incredibly bright ones but society is what it is
personally I blame Facebook