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WHAAAAT HTC trying to take down the iPhone!?
HTC has achieved somewhat of a moral victory when their May 2010 patent counter claim at the International Trade Commission against Apple was not laughed out of court.
The International Trade Commission said it would take up the investigation, which has to do with "certain portable devices and related software."
HTC claims Apple infringes 5 of their patents, and is asking the commission to ban the imports of key Apple mobile products into USA. Typically the ITC moves much faster than federal courts, and we could see the whole issue come to a head in only a few months.
HTC is responding to an earlier patent challenge involving 20 patents which Apple took to the ITC and the U.S. District Court in Delaware.
While the patents appeared mostly directed at HTC’s Android work, HTC has recently entered into a licensing agreement with Microsoft which ironically may provide some protection for their Android products.
So really what HTC is saying is: "WE ARE NOT! going to let you walk all over us" because suing... is a game of 2.
Full article can be found Here
Oh thank God someone has the balls. It's probably too much to hope that Apple's new iPhone gets delayed, or even better...recalled...lolol.
Could you imagine the look on the poor schmucks face at the moment he goes to get his shiny new POS iPhone rung up and the clerk goes, "Whoops, sorry buddy, but I can't sell you this!". Will there be a black market for iPhones?
Again, if only if only...it's just too much to hope.
~Jasecloud4
lol I don't want to rain on anybody's parade through Cupertino, but this is actually fairly standard practice in patent law (and other types as well)...this countersuit is HTC's way of saying "No, we're not going to settle, and we're fully prepared to go 9 rounds with you over this". Companies often do this as a way to strengthen their legal position when defending against the original claims. i.e. "not only are we not infringing on your patents, you are infringing on ours!"
So, yes it's a good sign that HTC has chosen this route vs copping to a quick settlement or licensing terms...but it's not exactly groundbreaking either.
I know, but sometimes lawsuits can have unexpected results. Maybe I just hate Apple a little too much, but massive recalls, psychotic hysteria on the part of Apple users at the loss of their iPhones, and an overall general anger at Steve Jobs is a small part of dream I have lolol...
I think this was posted a while back on Engadget. Anyhow, this is a good thing. It shows how far HTC has come.
It's unlikely that Apple will lose the case, but I'm certain that HTC can get them to drop the bull****.
Patents in the US are so horribly executed.
jasecloud4 said:
I know, but sometimes lawsuits can have unexpected results. Maybe I just hate Apple a little too much, but massive recalls, psychotic hysteria on the part of Apple users at the loss of their iPhones, and an overall general anger at Steve Jobs is a small part of dream I have lolol...
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LOL yes I admit that's a damn funny vision
PoisonWolf said:
Patents in the US are so horribly executed.
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Amen! There's companies that make more off of their patent portfolios than from any actual prodcut or service they sell, and it's worse in the IP sector than anywhere.
Dude the only reason I hate apple is because they think they OWN YOU I mean think about it steve jobs iPhone is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than HTC.
HTC says you need a phone that gets you and apple says YOU NEED THIS phone just because we are apple.
I hate that! its like monopoly all over again! ITS ABOUT DAM TIME SOME ONE STEP UP TO THEM!
even if HTC won, apple wouldn't be made to recall the product. They can't, once its sold it's sold (unless its an app from the app store, or a book on the amazon reader thingy where they can just delete it, of course, hehe, and even then, most lawyers agree that would be technically unlawful))
You, the buyer cannot be penalised for the sellers law breaking/mistakes. There won't and never will be a forced recall in these cases.
no they wont recall the phones yet they will spend millions rectifying software on the iPhone in order to step outside of infringements which is good enough for me as Apple are self obsessed wan**rs in my personal experience buying Apple products quickly reflects upon your own personality too,
HTC in my opinion are just flexing their Muscles that they have acquired by taking some microsoft steroids but in all fairness it is about time Apple get slapped in the face - maybe this will make them realise they cant do what they want
i love legal battles between companies especially smaller vs bigger, and in this case the smaller will probably win =]
I'm so happy this took a strange turn. HTC should have a voice... they have been producing touch screen phones far longing than apple. i think HTC knows they screwed up leaving Microsoft in charge from developing state of the art touch technology. i don't think its right for one company to with hold such a standard feature. Its like Intel saying they patented the computer's cpu and chipset, and motherboard, so anyone else following this directly be sued. also suing for monetary is lame, but suing to peace is acceptable in my book. everyone wins (besides neither will ever win the war, but rather pay to win one expensive battle, which are crippling fees to lawyers and officials who decide their fate. Since they both bring in lots of cash flow, this system wont allow this monopoly to happen) In the end they'll just compete with technology, which as a consumer we get the best technologies for the lowest price point (currently apple wants to put that hurting on consumers wallets.
Apple is afraid. it has been confirmed that T Mobile USA will launch apple product next month in July. Apple has expanded its market in despite of android replacing the popular growth of Blackberry users. Now apple wants a piece of that market, and they have agreed to jump into other markets to obtain that. apparently At&t can only pay for a timed launch for a product and can not force another company to deal directly with them, unless of course they purchase that company out...
This has been on the HTC website for some time now. I'm surprised nobody made a thread about this sooner....
looks like this will get nasty
We always knew the Apple / Samsung lawsuit would produce some major fireworks, and Samsung just lit off a corker: the company filed a motion Friday night asking Apple to turn over the iPhone 5 and iPad 3 as part of the discovery process. Seriously! Samsung claims that it needs to see Apple’s future products because devices like the Droid Charge and Galaxy Tab 10.1 will presumably be in the market at the same time as the iPhone 5 and iPad 3, and Samsung’s lawyers want to evaluate any possible similarities so they can prepare for further potential legal action from Apple. It’s ballsy, but it’s not totally out of the blue: the move comes just a few days after the judge ordered Samsung to hand over pre-production samples of the Droid Charge, Infuse 4G, Galaxy S II, and Galaxy Tab 10.1 and 8.9 so Apple could determine if those products should also be part of the lawsuit and potentially file a motion to block them from the market.
Now, the key difference between the two requests is that Samsung had already announced its products, while Apple has maintained its traditional iron silence about future devices. But there’s some additional nuance involved as well, as well as some bigger-picture implications — let’s walk through the entire situation, shall we?
Last week, Apple asked the court to order Samsung to hand over samples of the Galaxy Tab 10.1, Galaxy Tab 8.9, the Galaxy S II, the Infuse 4G, and the Droid Charge so Cupertino could figure out whether they should be part of the lawsuit — and whether to ask for a preliminary injunction preventing Samsung’s products from going on sale.
The court sided with Apple, in large part because Samsung had already released review units and photos of everything listed. In fact, the ruling came just days after Samsung handed out thousands of Galaxy Tab 10.1s at Google I/O, so really the only unreleased product on the list is the Tab 8.9 — a product that was announced in March and has been handled on video.
The court imposed one important condition on Apple in order to protect Samsung’s competitive edge, however: only Cupertino’s outside lawyers are allowed to look at Samsung’s pre-release hardware, not anyone from Apple itself. (Of course, there’s nothing stopping someone at Apple from running out and picking up a Droid Charge or Infuse 4G at retail, but pre-production samples that come from Samsung under this order are protected.)
Apple hasn’t yet filed for that preliminary injunction, nor has it said it’s going to anytime soon.
Now, given that most of the Samsung products on the list were already either available or fully disclosed, it wasn’t surprising that Apple won — in fact, it’s more interesting that Samsung had chose to fight back on such a minor issue in the first place, since it had so little at stake. (And it’s also somewhat interesting that Apple even asked for Samsung’s products in discovery instead of just filing for an injunction from the get-go, since they had all been announced already.) It’s a tell: no little compromises means no big compromises are in the works. So now let’s step through Samsung’s motion to see the iPhone 5 and iPad 3 and try to get a sense of what’s actually happening in context.
Samsung’s asking for a court order requiring Apple to produce “the final, commercial versions” of the next-generation iPhone and iPad and their respective packaging by June 13, 2011, so it can evaluate whether there’ll be confusion between Samsung and Apple’s future products. If the final versions aren’t available, Samsung wants “the most current version of each to be produced instead.”
Samsung doesn’t actually know Apple is planning to release a new iPhone or iPad; the motion is based on “internet reports” and “Apple’s past practice.” Obviously this is a critical difference between Apple’s request and Samsung’s — Samsung had already disclosed its new products, and Apple didn’t ask for anything that wasn’t already announced.
Samsung says it has to see the next-gen iPhone and iPad because it believes those are the products that will actually be on the market against future Samsung devices, so it has to be prepared for Apple’s potential motion for a preliminary injunction. That’s kind of a stretch: Apple can’t really file for a preliminary injunction based on potential confusion with unannounced, unreleased products, so Apple’s lawyers will almost certainly focus on confusion with the company’s existing products.
Indeed, Apple told Samsung on May 23 that any potential motion for a preliminary injunction “would be based on products Apple currently has in the market.”
Samsung says that doesn’t matter because Apple tends to discontinue previous products when it launches new ones, and it has to be prepared for what might be in the market when and if Apple actually files its motion. This is also a bit strange, since Apple kept both the iPhone 3G and iPhone 3GS on the market after launching new models. You can bet Apple will point that out.
Samsung’s also promised to abide by the same rules as Apple — only its lawyers will get to see anything Apple produces, not anyone at Samsung. (Or us, unfortunately.)
Lastly, Samsung says “fundamental fairness” requires Apple to give up its future products, since Samsung had to do the same. Tellingly, Samsung doesn’t reference any precedent or law to bolster this line of argument — it’s basically just asking the court to be nice.
So that’s Samsung’s motion. It’s pretty strange, if you think about it: Samsung is arguing that Apple might file for a preliminary injunction, and that it might happen sometime after Apple might release a new iPhone and iPad. That’s a lot of assumptions — and Apple can basically kill this entire line of argument dead by filing for that injunction Monday morning and saying that Samsung’s already-announced products should be blocked from market because they’ll cause confusion with the iPhone 4 and iPad 2 for however many months remain before the new versions are released. Neither the court nor Samsung really need to see Apple’s unreleased products to deal with that. And even if Samsung wins, Apple will definitely appeal the decision, putting the entire case on hold while things get sorted out… a process that will almost certainly stretch past the iPhone 5′s expected release in the fall, rendering this entire argument somewhat moot. And what happens if Samsung eventually gets the iPhone 5 and determines that the Droid Charge infringes Apple’s patents and trademarks? Is it going to change the Droid Charge? The potential outcomes aren’t entirely favorable here.
So why is Samsung even pursuing this? I think it’s a calculated gamble for additional leverage. Apple and Samsung held negotiations for a year before giving up and heading to the courts, and I’m reliably informed that there haven’t been any substantive settlement discussions since Apple first filed its complaint. That means talks have been at a standstill for a long time now, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Samsung was trying to put some additional heat on Apple to try and kick negotiations back into gear. It’s an interesting and aggressive move in its own right, but it also highlights the fact that neither Apple nor Samsung have addressed the actual merits of their complaints in formal replies — this is a minor skirmish before the real battle begins. We’ll see if this sideshow accomplishes anything beyond clever lawyerly maneuvering, but for right now it’s clear that Apple and Samsung aren’t planning to back down anytime soon.
click here !!!!
Doesn't samsung give apple most of the iphones parts...
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Jmatch said:
Doesn't samsung give apple most of the iphones parts...
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yup, I wonder if apple's lawyers took that into consideration before they brought up these charges
Wow Cheezynutz Nice long synopsis. Some of your ideas make sense about the tactics of these 2 companies, but here is the Gist of the whole thing:
Apple knows their market share is waning in the cell phone market so, trying to throw roadblocks is one tactic to delay the inevitable.
Apple has little chance to win this since the market that makes the difference is outside the USA It is all of the world and our court rulings no matter the outcome will have little to no bearing on that market. Compound that, along with some of the development problems Apple is having causing release delays (now 1st Q 2012) just translates into Android as a whole is like a Tsunami taking over everything. Beating on Samsung is nothing more than a side show, the real show is watching if Android consolidates their app market into more cohesive products and less version sensitive. That in itself will be the straw that breaks Apple's back. The hardware out there is not going to be the game changer at this point ads all of them are really very good.
Legal wrangling is not going to change any of this dynamic....... so to me I think Samsung actually wins all because the Apple legal team made the original demand to have access to Samsung products.......... Just like a chess Gambit Losing a piece early ends up giving you a winning position in the long run. Apple's legal team fell for it.... too .........And That is the most amusing part of all this....
Jmatch, yes samsung makes some of the components as does Foxconn (China) but I believe the final assembly is done elsewhere. Samsung pretty much has a lock on amoled
Great posting thanks !!!
That's the irony in this all, Samsung is actually apples provider. Lol and apple goes and sues them, that's really a dumb move on apples part.
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I bet Samsung loses this one. IPad 2 was launched last month and Samsung is asking for non announced products, apple may release a IPhone 4S instead a IPhone 5, both are 5th generation. While Samsung products were announced and being released.
the fight between these 2 COs will never end.
Jmatch said:
Doesn't samsung give apple most of the iphones parts...
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The SoC's Apple uses are done on Samsungs Fab process just like their own, it's a different market from phones to phone parts.
lol x10
It is called discovery, right?
Apple products are very similar to previous versions so I doubt Samsung will have anything to gain besides annoying Apple. If it wasn't for the iPod touch I wouldn't even have anything to do with Apple.
Apple are arrogant regarding these kind of matters. "I have the genius I have the power" ... but that power without the manpower, the raw materials, the technology ... is nothing.
Meanwhile Apple products are churned out in Chinese factories, with poor pay and appalling conditions for the assembly workers.
It must be a relief for them to know that Apple have such a big legal team watching their backs. Oh, wait...
DirkGently1 said:
Meanwhile Apple products are churned out in Chinese factories, with poor pay and appalling conditions for the assembly workers.
It must be a relief for them to know that Apple have such a big legal team watching their backs. Oh, wait...
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Samsung is out of Korea, and has shops in Korea and China. I don't think the conditions are that much better, plus it's foxconn that assembles the products. Apple only pays for the assembly. There really isn't a lot in this world anymore that isn't made in Chinese factories, with poor pay and appalling conditions for the assembly workers...
Apple blocks sale of Samsung's Android fondleslab across EU
Stifle competition appears to be the corporate strategy of the day
With its German suit based on the Community Design, Apple seeks fines of up to 250,000 euros (roughly $350,000) for each violation or, if the alleged infringement continues, imprisonment of Samsung management for up to two years.
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Jobs has gone off the deep end... this is ludicrous.
IMPRISONMENT?
these are guys with families just trying to make, albeit rather opulent, a living... and Apple wants them thrown into jail?
terrifying. I seriously hope Apple's strategy backfires.. this kind of stuff scares the living daylights out of me.
Apple is evil. But noone cares besides people like us who see what goes on behind the scenes. The average consumer just wants the "best" product. I put best in quotes because the general public thinks anything with that Apple logo is automatically the best thing out there.
slapshot30 said:
Apple is evil. But noone cares besides people like us who see what goes on behind the scenes. The average consumer just wants the "best" product. I put best in quotes because the general public thinks anything with that Apple logo is automatically the best thing out there.
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1/3 of iPhone users mistakenly think they have 4g. That's including 3GS users. If you did a poll with just iPhone 4 users, I bet half of them would claim to have 4g.
Apples needs an injunction because half of Apple's userbase probably couldn't figure out that a tablet that says "SAMSUNG" on the front is not from Apple.
Closed
No need to open another thread on same topic
Here you can continue to post and comment
Niceeeeeeeeee
bleach168 said:
1/3 of iPhone users mistakenly think they have 4g. That's including 3GS users. If you did a poll with just iPhone 4 users, I bet half of them would claim to have 4g.
Apples needs an injunction because half of Apple's userbase probably couldn't figure out that a tablet that says "SAMSUNG" on the front is not from Apple.
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most consumers are basically whores who will buy anything they see on tv if a celebrity endorses it, or it has flashy graphics. i dunno, i spent to much time in advertising to figure out the tricks and gimmicks of tech companies.
why do you think ESPN uses whiz-bang graphics? of course, short attention spans like flashy colors.
I understand there a few topics about the court cases including Apple and Samsung, but I wanted to point something out that I thought funny/satisfying.
Edit: I realize this is more of a rant. Sorry!
Ever since the first court case when Apple sued, I had an anger in me. Solely because Apple has been claiming that Samsung couldn't have progressed to where the company has today if it weren't for the fact that they "stole" the iPhone design. I have a couple of things to say to that.
1) As for the design, I can't possibly see how another phone can get in trouble for "copying" the iPhone. Something as simple as a black, rectangular phone with a single button could not be copied unless the company specifically AIMED to replicate the iPhone, and I doubt that is the case with Samsung.
2) About 25% of the components in the iPhone are supplied by Samsung... Lol
3, The satisfying piece of news) Somewhat old news, but for those of you who missed it, Samsung wanted to submit a document as court evidence to battle the accusation of "copying the iPhone", but for an unknown reason, it was declined. Despite being declined, Samsungs legal team went against the order of the judge, and ended up publishing the document publicly. What was the document? A document showing the design for a PRE-iPHONE device, that actually, does look very, very similar to the iPhone. In fact, SEVERAL devices resembling an iPhone, all of them designed in 2006, before the iPhone release.
I love this. Not so much because I'm an android fanboy, but more so because I DESPISE Apple (That's another discussion in itself). These documents are like saying F you to Apple...
I wish I can link you guys to the articles and pictures, but my account is relatively new. Please do the research (if you'd like) and look at the pictures yourselves if you haven't! Search "allthingsd samsung goes public" on Google and click the first link.
TL;DR - Samsung f**ks over Apple
Samsung cant makes phones to save themselves
Motorola ftw!
Tl,dr samsung may have won but its not over
PepperGardener said:
Samsung cant makes phones to save themselves
Motorola ftw!
Tl,dr samsung may have won but its not over
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Lol. Well although I do like Samsung, and not so much Motorola, although they do make good phones. Just wanted to exemplify the fact
that the satisfaction came from my hatred towards Apple, not the love towards Samsung.
TL;DR - I hate Apple.
PepperGardener said:
Samsung cant makes phones to save themselves
Motorola ftw!
Tl,dr samsung may have won but its not over
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Did you really think?
PepperGardener said:
Samsung cant makes phones to save themselves
Motorola ftw!
Tl,dr samsung may have won but its not over
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Click to collapse
Psch, motorola makes good hardware maybe. Their software is crap. Ever heard of anyone actually saying 'Yeah I think I'd like motoblur on my phone!' Yeah me neither. Samsung has got software down and their CPU/GPU is always ahead of the game. Both are better than apple though, lets agree on that.
PepperGardener said:
Samsung cant makes phones to save themselves
Motorola ftw!
Tl,dr samsung may have won but its not over
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LOL. yeah rite xD
Thank God it's not just me
I was thinking about commenting on Motoblur, but I decided to not stray away from the topic... even though we apparently have. (But that's okay)
I'm glad I'm not alone, never really thought I was though, and yes I agree totally. Apple can suck it
Personally i think samsungs ui does look too much like the apple ui. Look at the uk case where the judge ruled that on first impression they do look similar but that after using both he decided overall the experience was different. Apples main argument is that the first impression people have is that they look the same. To be honest I actually agree this point. Samsung haven't done enough to look unique.
This is the only point I agree apple have a case with, i think most of their cases are stupidly overblown to the pont of appearing petty. The actual patents that apple are trying to claim are to me not generally what i would term innovative enough to warrant being patentable inventions. I think this should be handled as a copyright case not a patent case.
One of the things people fail to mention is samsungs allegations that apple are infringing their patents. The samsung patents to me seem much more valid than the fluff apple are claiming as patents. If apple expect companies to accept their patents they should respect the patents of others.
Theres no mystery as to why the evidence was rejected. The judge had given a time that evidence should be submitted by, samsung tried to submit it too late. Theres nothing sinister the judge had set rules that had to be followed.
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What annoys me is the fact its a mobile phone, there isnt a lot that you can change to make a touch screen phone look loads different from another. They are basically all the same shape, they all have an ear piece which has to be at the top and buttons have to be at the bottom. As for the look of the ui same goes, a desktop on a computer is basically the same, most used apps at the bottom just like quick launch on PC then other apps spaced evenly on the rest of the screen. With apps been available on iOS and android then that makes them look more alike. Its all bs and apple piss me off.
Sent from my Jelly Beaned Galaxy S2
How can anyone love or hate pieces of black plastic or companies producing them, it always amazed me. Use your feelings towards some things worthy of it. Anyway, Nokia was the first in the late 90s with some proto smartphones with touch screens. They completely screwed it and that's a shame.
Closed
Redundant thread and wrong section
So Samsung was found guilty of infringing apple's patents and will have to pay $1 billion in damages.
http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-apple-samsung-verdict-20120824,0,7031929.story
The troubling thing in there is that one of the patents infringed is pinch to zoom. Does this mean Android may have to pay for it too?
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Pinch to zoom would more likely be a case of paying royalties. Microsoft currently pay Apple royalties for such features on their OS, so Google would have to deal with it. Google do have a little bit of a track record for taking code and using it like it's public property but I doubt it could do them any serious harm.
This was much more about the fact that once the iPhone popped up, Samsung's phones all suddenly changed to look and behave like Apple's, even skinning Android to look like iOS. The case was mainly about hardware design. I just hope the outcome doesn't damage their newer, more unique stuff, like the Galaxy S3 and Nexus.
There's not anything to worry about in terms of the future of the OS itself, Apple rely on their relationship with Google.
Sad day in technology land. Our patent system is really messed up.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1785833