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Official: Palmdroid Development Thread (android app emulator for WebOS)

After speaking with some of you it has become readily apparent that while many people are comfortable waiting for a full android release for the HP Touchpad, there are also quite a few people out there that do not want to switch to a full android OS but simply wish they could have access to the vast app collection that android has to offer.
For these people I offer a solution.
Palmdroid​
The Palmdroid project is going to be an ongoing development project to bring a Dalvik like port to the Palm/HP WebOS operating system.
The goals of this project are as follows:
1) to offer a Dalvik port to WebOS that allows for android app emulation as if they were native WebOS apps much like Alien Dalvik on the nokia n900 or the app emulator of the blackberry playbook
2) Share useful information throughout development with the Touchdroid team as to help them reach their end goals and avoid conflicting and overlapping work as well as to foster collaboration and new ideas to speed the project along.
3)If possible (either worked into the project from the start or through later additions) provide the emulator as a download through the WebOS homebrew App catalog.
Now with the goals outlined I'll move on to how this is going to get going and what needs to happen next.
1) First and foremost... I need volunteer developers. If you have experience with Dalvik, WebOS development, Android development, UI development, C++, Java, Etc. I would like you to PM me with details regarding what you can help with. I have some java and C++ experience as well as a ton of web dev and project management experience but with alot of this I am learning as I go and if this is going to get done with any sort of speed I NEED your help.
2) I will be setting up communication channels for the dev team to discuss what needs to be done, share work, etc.
3) I will be setting up a web page (an extension off of my own since I can't finance purchasing another hosting account or domain name right now) where there will be regular updates on the status of the project as well as a section for the dev team as a repository for project related research, source code bits, group status reports etc.
Until the aforementioned steps are met this thread will be used to offer info, updates, and discussion related to development of Palmdroid.
I hope to have the support of the community here as we move ahead... i know I am new around here but I am very passionate about making this happen.
WebOS is a great operating system... and Android has some amazing apps... won't it be an amazing world when you can have both!
Palmdroid Coming Soon​
-Roto-rooter
PS. this should probably have been in the development section but apparently I can't post there because I am to new here so forgive me. If a Mod would like to move it and give me posting abilities that would be fine.

I subscribed to this thread even tho I have no WebOS devices at all. But I'm intersted in this project's work (I'm not a developer just a "hacker") as the same idea was proposed in the Bada section, too. It seems quite a lot of work to do this, as it's not enough to port dalvik itself, a big chunk of android has to be ported also to make it work. But it's an interesting project!

Agree! I don't want the entire Android OS ... All I want is the apps running on a webos emulator.

Great! Thanks! I'll be watching closely!
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

while I probably cannot be of use for the development, I can be helpful for some other things. For instance, I am in the process of creating a logo for the project and also searching for possible devs. I will contact the touchdroid team and see what they think.

Brilliant Idea about starting the dev work
I would support this development and I am sure countless others who have just purchased $99/£89 HP Touchpads would do so. Once again thank you Robo-Rooter & Failhard to start this work.

Just got my 32gb Touchpad in the firesale. Really loving it so far. Having android apps on it would really top this device off. Good luck.

Have been using the touchpad for a couple of days and am amazed at the elegance and sophistication of the webos. Though an old android user ... I absolutely love the webOs interface.
Would love to see the palmdroid happen ... ALL THE VERY BEST GUYS ...
Thanks Robo-Rooter & Failhard for initiating this.

This would be absolutely perfect. I wouldn't want to ditch the WebOS but still be able to run Android apps.
You have my full support.

Great idea!
Great idea!

I have a droid (DesireHD) myself and comparing the droid's interface and webOS, I really like webOS. And looking at how the patches and O/C makes the whole tablet runs silky smooth, I really want an android app emulator. Current apps in webOS's catalogue is pathetic, but combining android's apps and webOS interface is the best one can get.

Subscribed. If I can't get the Android OS, an emulator would do nicely.
sent from my 7/23 iNfEcTeD EVO 4G

Yeah it will be great to those who want to keep WebOS

Subscribed.

I am a long time webOS enthusiast, and I am hoping that I actually get one of the 6 TouchPads that I ordered over the last few days. I think your proposal is the best way to go, and would be way more useful, and probably easier, than a full dual boot android port. I just wanted to list some resources here to bring to everyone's attention. While XDA is the most amazing collection of talented Android and WinMo hackers, you probably want to enlist the help of the aces that live and breathe webOS. Here is where to find them:
http://forums.precentral.net/ Definitely the most popular webOS forum. All the homebrew devs and hackers hang out here.
http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Main_Page This is where all the nitty gritty is documented in a Wiki. I have known some of the webOS internals guys since the day the Pre launched, and they are very talented.
http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=webos-internals This is their IRC channel.
Also, if anyone has not seen it, they have already got Ubuntu, including window managers, and apps like GIMP and LibreOffice, running inside cards in webOS. This leads me to believe that the Palmdroid concept is VERY possible.
http://forums.precentral.net/webos-development/292457-tutorial-how-get-ubuntu-touchpad.html
The nice thing is that lots of great auxiliary tools already exist to speed up the process, such as MetaDoctor for creating custom ROMs and Preware for downloading and compiling virtually any linux arm package.
Best of luck with everything. I am subscribing and will help where I can.

This is what I was waiting to hear!!! Let us know where to donate!

Notorious544d said:
This would be absolutely perfect. I wouldn't want to ditch the WebOS but still be able to run Android apps.
You have my full support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this 100%

+1 I believe this is the answer! Hope more people come on board!
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App

Subscribed, definitely want to know where this is heading.

as the biggest supporter of android on the TP, I've started to fall in love with webOS, not gonna lie. I would definitely support this idea. Its always great to have options!

[DEV]Project Magenta, an iOS-like OS. Anyone interested? + Need devs!

http://crna.cc/magenta.html
Magenta is an implementation of Darwin/BSD on top of the Linux kernel. It is made
up of a number of kernel and userland components that work together. It is fully binary
compatible with iPhone OS 5.0 (as in, it uses the same binary format).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am now chatting with the dev on IRC. I want to know if anyone is interested in this, so i know if i will continue the porting or not.
First we need to build the kernel, so we need a kernel dev. There's a DIFF that needs to be applied.
The files are here: http://crna.cc/magenta_source.html
What do you think? Also remember THIS IS A DEV TOPIC, so no asking for ETA & stuff. Nagging will result in locking the topic and discontinuing this.
EDIT: Remember, this has nothing to do with Apple. Everything is Open-Source, so we have the stability of C instead of Java, but also the openness of Android!
Edit 2: Looks like there aren't many devs interested about this, and also there would be no advantages. You can't run Android Apps, nor iOS apps...

What good points will this release have besides compability with iOS apps ?

Not just the "look like android", it can still have a android look but iOS compability, that sure opens a wide horizon. Cross platform apps. It's awesome i think.

MidnightDevil said:
Not just the "look like android", it can still have a android look but iOS compability, that sure opens a wide horizon. Cross platform apps. It's awesome i think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It won't run iOS apps.. below was mentioned on project website
" to make it myself). * Will it run iPhone OS apps? * No, because I'm not aiming to have compatible high level frameworks. Just think about how much work is required to have a 100% compatible implementation of UIKit or Celestial. HOWEVER, the CoreOS part should be 100% (or 99%) compatible. Just not the higher level OS. If you're just interested in this because it will "run iOS apps" please go away."
Sent from my HTC Desire using xda premium

I can contribute, maybe even run the thing (no promises, in my spare time, won't support it just drop the thing for you, I'm busy next few days though)
Still working on kernel 3.0
Sent from my Desire HD

This has nothing to do with iOS' lockdown. It is as open and as free as Android.

In Layman terms; does this mean magenta just runs Android on C and not Java meaning more efficient execution of tasks?

So is it just a ios themed rom, or does it actually have some of the real advances from the ios?
Sent from my HTC Desire using xda premium

I'd be willing to dev, but I'm afraid I don't have too much experience.
I know my way around C++ and Python, and I can do Hello World in C. I can read most code though.

It's funny to see people excited with this when they don't know what benefits this development will actually bring :b
I'm not against this at all, please don't take this the wrong way, but to invest in such kind of development you need to have benefits, so, what are they ?

like to contribute
I would like to contribute on development.I know Objective C, worked on few Iphone Apps.

andreigherghe said:
http://crna.cc/magenta.html
I am now chatting with the dev on IRC. I want to know if anyone is interested in this, so i know if i will continue the porting or not.
First we need to build the kernel, so we need a kernel dev. There's a DIFF that needs to be applied.
The files are here: http://crna.cc/magenta_source.html
What do you think? Also remember THIS IS A DEV TOPIC, so no asking for ETA & stuff. Nagging will result in locking the topic and discontinuing this.
EDIT: Remember, this has nothing to do with Apple. Everything is Open-Source, so we have the stability of C instead of Java, but also the openness of Android!
Edit 2: Looks like there aren't many devs interested about this, and also there would be no advantages. You can't run Android Apps, nor iOS apps...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the most (and only - for me- ) interesting side of this project is having the stability of C instead of Java. Android will be stunning and awesome if it get over java. but iOS like !! nah.
and good luck with that cuz there is people who want it and seems excited about it :highfive:

I'm willing to help, will be getting my uart cable soon.
Sent from my GT-I9100 running CM10

icecreame said:
the most (and only - for me- ) interesting side of this project is having the stability of C instead of Java. Android will be stunning and awesome if it get over java.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can easily develop for Android using C (Google NDK). What preventing YOU from doing it? But generally that is terrible idea unless someone have got tons of already written code that is too costly/time consuming to port/rewrite. And it is awful idea because it defy purpose of Java compatibility. We got phones out there that are running Android on top of x86/MIPS processors. And thous phones have no problem running absolute majority of Android applications. Plus few startups are developing new processor architectures, because Android would let them access huge software library transparently. And that is fundamental idea behind Android, let OS run on any processor, current or future one, with application developers having no need to port or even recompile their code for new architectures/processor models.

My friend is very intrested in this he is a programmer in c and c++ and c#

Thread closed per OP request, as development has stopped for good on this project.

Q Best Linux desktop os for Android development

I was wondering if someone can recommend what they think that the best Linux desktop os would be for Android development. I was using Linux Mint but recently I switched to ubuntu. I have been recommended to use fedora or debian. I was just hoping to get opinions on which would be the better for a new dev to start using. Thanks in advance.
Sent from my SPH-D600 using xda app-developers app

What did you settle on and why? Cause I'm trying to decide atm too...
I know I'd be more likely to stick with debian/ubuntu based because it's just the type of package management I'm used to... Ubuntu has become my goto... or lubuntu/xubuntu if I need a lighter footprint, kubuntu if I'm looking for a more refined desktop that guests might be more comfortable with... You just can't beat the amount of packages that are "already ready already" in the ubuntu repos and the online community/following ubuntu has for quick help.
I am, however, a little more likely to try something different for the particular purpose of android development if recommended by a lot of experienced people.
I see more responses in older threads... but things change quickly in the OS world... especially with fast pased release cycles of some distributions. I hope some actual xda recognized developers give some feedback here.
I know a lot of people will say it depends on your needs and what you work best with and what works best for you and how you work and how I drink my sweet tea and blah blah blah... I want to know what you guys that are actually doing it are using and why so I can make an informed decision.. or else I'll just go with my goto (ubuntu)... but just in case I'll be clear about what would help too... That doesn't meant I don't care to hear opinions outside of the scope of my desire if you have good reasoning.
1. Package management. Easiest install/configuration of the specific tools needed to develop for android apps and package apk's, and android itself... kernels, build roms and similar non-app system component development or repackaging.
2. Of course an environment that feels intuitive and is conducive to the creative process involved is equally important.
3. This probably going to be a given in any distribution (I'll mention anyway...), but communication and resource access is important too.. so irc, web (xda-developers forum!), email...
I value the thoughts and opinions of this community. I've been getting great info off here for years. I'm just now starting to participate in the forum, but that's just because I've never been a forum person... I was just an irc and google geek... but when google takes you to great forums like this time and time again... I guess its time to grow and change. I'd like to be a future contributor too, it feels nice to give back...

I guess I'll stick with my combo of Windows 7 and Ubuntu. I will be changing desktop to classic gnome though. I'm not prepared for a radical change like unity... still just looks like a netbook launcher to me.. sadly the newer gnome releases seen to be heading in a radical direction as well.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium HD app

Definitive Linux dualboot thread

Where can you find this grey area,where WP7 owners are meeting with Linux/Ubuntu developers to wrap up this dualbooting issue for once and for all?

Take a look at the Project HaRET thread -
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1483377

xdrc45 said:
Take a look at the Project HaRET thread -
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1483377
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you must have droid and WP on the same device this is probably the most sensible option and more likely to be usable on a number of devices. Dual Booting will mean the need for a new bootldr, HaRET does not, just full unlock or perhaps even WP7 Root Tools v.12 beta will do the job, assuming it can be made to work

if, theoretically, the linux kernel has been run on the HD2/HD7 hardware, it stands to reason that anything from 1stgen wp7 and up should be kicking ass and taking names in terms of running the Ubuntu mobile version. Take that fact, add it to fact that having a first gen device means that youre too old to upgrade and too powerful not to upgrade. Warranties have expired and are therefore moot. Each device should have a HaRET section tucked away somewhere.

Vukile said:
if, theoretically, the linux kernel has been run on the HD2/HD7 hardware, it stands to reason that anything from 1stgen wp7 and up should be kicking ass and taking names in terms of running the Ubuntu mobile version. Take that fact, add it to fact that having a first gen device means that youre too old to upgrade and too powerful not to upgrade. Warranties have expired and are therefore moot. Each device should have a HaRET section tucked away somewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the HD2 was a very unique device though, in terms of dual booting it was only because we had the HSPL update and the secondary bootloader MAGLDR that gave us any hope at all in doing it, both of those are tightly controlled and we dont have access to adapting them to other devices and perhaps more importantely we dont have the knowledge base to do it ourselves. IRC, HaRET worked fine on the HD2 but only after a huge amount of work by some of the brightest members on the forum and a large community that was able to support them
Then we had the Android Boom, which diluted the talent base, simply put, we now have two problems
A, Many of the big names have gone to android and couldnt care less about WP
B, The people left here are largely unable to help, not for want of trying but because many of us dont know how we can help
Thats not saying we dont have any talented people here, far from it, in fact i think we have some of the best, BUT even the best need help and if the community isnt able to support them, then their struggles will be that much harder.
For HaRET we need someone who knows what they are doing to "Manage" the project, to direct and teach others. That is a very time consuming roll and i wouldnt blame anyone for saying they wouldnt have the time to do that.
Personally i couldnt care for Android on our devices but that isnt the point of what xda is about, development is what its about

And you could use the HTC Sensation XL software for example the HTC Titan (same hardware (minor differences))

I want Linux Ubuntu on my device, that's the bottom line. Years ago I started a thread about running Win 98 on WM6.1 devices using the Bosch emulator,three years later, I'd like to think the rhetoric has changed. The people who have any real info on the matter aren't saying anything definitive,that's hacker talk for ' We know something,but we can't state it officially'. I'm gonna 'leave' the matter alone now. Great ROM btw ,Sianto. Can you recommend a backup program that won't leave me in the dust? Last time I backed up I couldn't recover the files.

Vukile said:
I want Linux Ubuntu on my device, that's the bottom line. Years ago I started a thread about running Win 98 on WM6.1 devices using the Bosch emulator,three years later, I'd like to think the rhetoric has changed. The people who have any real info on the matter aren't saying anything definitive,that's hacker talk for ' We know something,but we can't state it officially'. I'm gonna 'leave' the matter alone now. Great ROM btw ,Sianto. Can you recommend a backup program that won't leave me in the dust? Last time I backed up I couldn't recover the files.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I tried to backup with a lot of tools. But I didn't find a proper working onen yet. However, uploading your pictures to skydrive is one. Reïnstaller takes a while but wurks fantastic. And my rom should have some backup features build in as well.
I actually have spend some time building the sensation xl rom for the titan, but it didn't work out
Regards
Sianto

So, have you stopped already? I really want to help, and one of the reasons is to make things even with MS. So tell me what I need to do! HTC Titan user!

1. HTC first Gen has a good hardware environment.
2. There are ways of accessing the memory.
3. There are means of creating virtual kernels, partitions,etc.
4. There are OS's designed to run in these environments.
5. WP7 has a deadbeat dad.

And this means??

It means all the ingredients are in place to create a brand new subforum and niche market. Not unlike finding a new OS to port to an "old" device.

So do that. And your phones will be legends!

Any news?

Seen the Ubuntu article in the portal? Hmmm....

No, whats it about?

How much of Android's source code is hardware dependent? How much is closed source?

Hi everybody!
I've always used this wonderful XDA forums just as an avid fan of cooked ROMs, testing many of them on my DesireHD and then on my S3 Neo, all the same trying to understand how android works.
But increasingly I found myself asking how much of Android's source code is dependent on the hardware it should run on...
I understand that all should be compiled for the correct platform, ARM, x86, whatever, but apart from this, what is really different?
For example, suppose that we were talking about Android 5.1.1 : how much source NEEDS (as some function of the phone wouldn't work instead) to be different if 5.1.1 should work on the S3Neo instead of on Desire HD?
I mean, in the desktop world, the x86 platform has a standard structure, and if I'm trying to install Windows or Linux, all I should care of is getting drivers for devices unknown to the OS, but the OS installs and works unchanged, and the very same install cd could be used on many different pcs...
We can also put it in another way: if we pick up the AOSP sources, how much stuff has to be added to make it work on a specific device?
Thanks for any advice on this curiosity of mine!

Up!
Nobody has nothing to say on this topic?

Shores said:
Up!
Nobody has nothing to say on this topic?
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Hey, if you got the answer to your question then please share. I am also looking for an answer to this question.