Related
I just think it is kind of weird right after at&t releases their two new android phones and new tethering plan, that our phone then the aria who have both waited for months get an update. Kinda seems like at&t was holding out on the updates. Anyone else agree this seems a little weird?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
+1
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
OK, this is just my opinion, but I believe that all the people that have been castrating Samsung about the updates are generally wrong, and that ATT was where things were being held up.
So, it's easy to castrate ATT for that but, really, it's easy for people that don't understand software/product support to pass judgement. Most people assume that ATT delayed things for commercial reasons so they could bloat/cripple the software. That may very well be true, but is it the only reason?
Assuming there are a couple million captivates out there, maybe ATT wanted to make sure they were able and ready to support the update of a couple million phones by generally retarded consumers that were going to create a huge demand spike for support when the upgrade was released?
Being in the software business, I know that software rollouts are not simply a matter of the software being ready. Having an infrastructure/ecosystem in place to support the software once it's rolled out is often as challenging as developing the software, and often just because the software is ready doesn't mean the business is ready to roll it out and support it. It may be as elementary as making sure you have enough capacity in your call centers to take the additional end-user support call volume generated by the update.
So, it's logical for me to believe that ATT set up an infrastructure and a plan that was implemented to support rollout of updates. It's also logical to assume that plan was intended so that the day it "went live" it enabled them to support multiple phone updates. The timing could certainly encompass dependencies/considerations on other elements of their business/infrastructure, including seemingly unrelated (to us) elements like support for tethering, etc.
I'm not necessarily defending all of these companies practices, and I really do think their communication could be better, but let's face it. Sometimes they are caught between a rock and a hard place. If they roll out something before they are ready they get berated because they released prematurely (see IPhones and network capacity and one reason so many people ***** about ATT). Or some updates fail and some phones get bricked and bloggers jump on them and try to ruin their reputation (see the recent WP7 first update). Or they try to communicate and people want specific dates and complain if they don't get them (see recent SamsungJohn/XDA debacle). If a date slips because of some unforeseen reason, people hold their feet to the fire over it.
So, is it coincidence that the Captivate and Aria updated at the same time, along with some other business elements like tethering? Probably not. Does it imply something insidious? Maybe, but I tend to believe it was along the lines of their project/implementation timelines based on the things they needed to put into place to support their customers and manage their business plans.
People, in general, VASTLY underestimate the amount of work that is required to set up an ecosystem to support end-users and roll out and release software/products.
Can Samsung and ATT do a better job of communicating? Absolutely, especially as it relates to the XDA audience. But consider this: maybe, from their business perspective, the number of people that ***** on the Internet are a miniscule (albeit very visible to us) percentage of their business/customers and although they are willing to spend some time to cater to that element, maybe their willingness only extends out a little bit because they think it only affects their business a little bit.
Just my $.02.
Bob
http://www.androidauthority.com/google-issues-statement-regarding-support-for-cdma-devices-50545/
I'm done. More fragmentation.
Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk
qhinton said:
http://www.androidauthority.com/google-issues-statement-regarding-support-for-cdma-devices-50545/
I'm done. More fragmentation.
Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Blame your carrier for using bs CDMA...
lowandbehold is right here. Google didn't create the cdma vs. gsm thing you guys have going on there in the US.
.
Thread moved. Would advise you to read forum rules and post in correct section.
Failure to comply with forum rules will result in an infraction and/or ban depending on severity of rule break.
its not our fault that cdma carriers are so much better than GSM ones here in the US. google shouldn't be doing this to its users, it's not like they're any less good as developers just because they choose the superior network (in some areas.)
Sent from my ICS SCH-i500
sageDieu said:
google shouldn't be doing this to its users
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you even read the article? Google can't do anything about it. The carriers have created a situation where a ROM cannot be created without them signing the phone apk. In other words, your verizon nexus already isn't AOSP because some of its core functionality is reliant on custom, locked, carrier-installed crap.
This whole issue could have been avoided by verizon/sprint allowing/providing unsigned cell network apks. I'm quite sure google has asked for this by now. The carriers chose to be dicks about it, they chose to make timely google updates impossible, so they don't get google support. Lay the blame where it belongs.
This is why i hate CDMA.. though they have good signal, they are worst in this case.
The levels of fragmentation are incredible, really. And Google happily continues to turn a blind eye to it all. It's sad, really, because Android has some real potential if it were handled better.
Sent from my SGH-I897
i'm not sure why you guys are *****ing. from a PR perspective, Google did the right thing, hands down. Told you what was going on, and stated that they are going to work on it. just because they didn't say they were going after the carriers in a vicious way you guys are mad. ridiculous...
As another said before, don't blame google, blame the carrier. they are the ones that are messing it up
Always the carriers fault. Sigh.
-Sent from my Rezound-
ridethisbike said:
As another said before, don't blame google, blame the carrier. they are the ones that are messing it up
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's Google's fault that the carriers are in a position to mess it up.
Sent from my SGH-I897
Hmm somehow Apple doesn't have this problem. Updates available day 1 for both GSM and CDMA phones. Google has no choice but to cater to the carriers since Android is Trojan horse for data mining and mobile advertising while iOS puts consumers first. Truth is Google doesn't care about fragmentation, they're focused on volume at all costs. Since Google(and everyone else with half a brain) are well aware that no single Android phone will come close to iPhone sales they need to get as many manufacturers on board as possible, which necessitates letting carriers run the show. Great for Google since they get to sell your personal data to advertisers, but sucks for the consumer.
alex2792 said:
Google has no choice but to cater to the carriers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, not exactly. They're making the decision to give the power to carriers rather than give it to consumers like Apple and Microsoft do. They could choose otherwise, but they really don't care about you and me.
My two cents tells me Google can fix a lot of issues that Android has by, closing it, not making it Open Source. Then there would be an even bigger cry out towards Google. By closing Android, Google can control every aspect of Android, as they see fit, forcing OEMs to adhere to Google's strict guidelines and policies. That is not what Google had envisioned for the Android OS. Instead Google gave OEM's and Carriers the infrastructure,sources, and starting point to create their own vision.
Giving these Companies free rein to create, ultimately Google gets what they wanted, more Google searches (form devices), creating more revenue for Google. So you might say that Android was not created for the consumer, as much as another revenue stream. Google just needs to keep Android appealing enough to the consumers, and allow OEMs and Carriers to do the rest. I'm surprised that the carriers don't provide Google with the ability to sign the .apks themselves, that would take the responsibility away from the Carriers, and solely on Google's shoulders.
Just thinking out loud hear.
sageDieu said:
its not our fault that cdma carriers are so much better than GSM ones here in the US. google shouldn't be doing this to its users, it's not like they're any less good as developers just because they choose the superior network (in some areas.)
Sent from my ICS SCH-i500
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^This
Not all of us live in an area where we are free to choose between GSM and CDMA. I live in a rural area where At&t reception can be spotty, T-mobile and Sprint are almost non-existent and Verizon gets a signal pretty much everywhere.
google confirmed with the verge that it will push updates to verizon galaxy nexus! ... please don't jump to conclusions.
alex2792 said:
Hmm somehow Apple doesn't have this problem. Updates available day 1 for both GSM and CDMA phones. Google has no choice but to cater to the carriers since Android is Trojan horse for data mining and mobile advertising while iOS puts consumers first. Truth is Google doesn't care about fragmentation, they're focused on volume at all costs. Since Google(and everyone else with half a brain) are well aware that no single Android phone will come close to iPhone sales they need to get as many manufacturers on board as possible, which necessitates letting carriers run the show. Great for Google since they get to sell your personal data to advertisers, but sucks for the consumer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android is not a trojan horse, seriously most of your comments on android seem very negative and often just apple rhetoric.
Android has to run on lots of phones so its hard to unify that whereas iphone is just one. Very easy to update one phone model whose only difference is carrier type as opposed to thousands of different ones.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
The only way to fix this fragmentation is for google to move to a more apple like approach to selling phones. If they locked down android to where manufacturers had to meet certain specs before they could use android or had to follow certain rules, then there would ultimately be less choice for the consumers. I think what makes android great is the wide range of options we all have, even if that means we have to wait a while for the carriers to upgrade us to the newest OS. We're all aware that when we buy these phones they have a chance of lagging behind the "newest and greatest thing". Just take Android for what it is, a diverse platform that is very fragmented, because thats not going to change.
mistermentality said:
Android is not a trojan horse, seriously most of your comments on android seem very negative and often just apple rhetoric.
Android has to run on lots of phones so its hard to unify that whereas iphone is just one. Very easy to update one phone model whose only difference is carrier type as opposed to thousands of different ones.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So if Android's number one goal isn't enabling Google to push "personalized" ads then what is it? I'm negative about Android because Google places carrier interests ahead of the consumer resulting in shoddy user experience. Apple isn't perfect and their propensity to omit seemingly basic features does annoy me at times,but even with that said the iPhone offers a far more pleasurable experience. When I use an Apple product I can see that they really put a lot of thought into creating a first rate experience(which is why they have a ridiculous retention rate) while Android OEMs are just trying to push something out the door. For example used the Galaxy Nexus for a few weeks and I've encountered a ton of issues with reception,random data drop outs and abysmal battery life even with 4G turned off, which simply don't exist on the iPhone. I'm not an Apple fanatic, just someone who enjoys solid, reliable products that "just work" without me needing to spend hours tweaking ****.
wrong forum..
Removed the OP in protest due to the abusive I endured by some XDA members. In spite of reporting them to the moderates of the forums in question and my views were shared with more members than the abusers one of my threads was closed instead.
To those truly care about technology and its surrounding matters, please accept my sincere apologies for this inconvenience. I will no longer be part of the XDA community. Thank you.
Holy ****, someone here has a massive grudge against Google and Android.
CSharpHeaven said:
Part 2
Applications & Games
The very exaggerated figure (over 400,000) by Google is only to generate market hypes and to give an impression how popular the Android platform is.
The truth is Google has used hundreds of thousands of hopeful individuals with prospect of success to submit anything to fight back Apple's App Store, only in terms of numbers that is. The chance to success, financially, on Google's Play Store is only very small for established vendors and even smaller for individuals when the competition exceeds by vast numbers. Think of the odds in lottery to come to the same conclusion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You see, you seem to be making contradictions on your own writing.
They never said 400,000 amazing super duper apps, they said 400,000 apps, no matter what quality.
Spell checker?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
nejc121 said:
Holy ****, someone here has a massive grudge against Google and Android.
You see, you seem to be making contradictions on your own writing.
They never said 400,000 amazing super duper apps, they said 400,000 apps, no matter what quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm glad you are not the only XDA member that can read.
what boggles me is that android is the first os that has gotten my trust, for better or for worse. as strange as it may sound, i like updates, i am happy when notifications drop in and i certainly read the changelogs and see what's new. no other OS has ever been able to do that to me. i am using windows at work, macosx at home and linux for website-server stuff. some of these systems are here for decades, and yet they have never really taken care of my needs. i have no trust in them and never had, i click away update nagscreens whenever i see them, i hate when firefox bugs me with it, i dont trust any application, i know they put their dump onto my harddrives, mess it all up from inside, they have brought their own installation/deinstallation scripts and deamons for updates that clog my ram and suck my bandwidth, they are unsigned and unsafe, they spam my screen with popups, i do not know what permissions they require and what api's they call - they do whatever the hell they want. i use them because i have to.
yes, android has kinks and problems, but this is the cleanest OS, from a users standpoint, i have seen and used. my technical background may be lacking but this was my first impression. and because of that i can deal with buggy apps just fine, i either tollerate it or uninstall and search for something works on the market. and for some crazy reason i enjoy it, although i hated it on pc/mac/linux. so in this regard i think the app-market is doing great. it is true of course that the quality from app to app varies alot, but many do have high standards and work flawlessly. i for one think it is good that the android market does not have severe restrictions, because updates can get pushed when a defect is found. you have the opposite on apple and i did read reports that state their apps generally crash more often, which makes absolute sense because each update must go through an odyssey of admittance. bugs itself will always happen, every programmer knows that, but the android market has made sure that we do not suffer from them as much as on other systems. the underbelly of android with its signing-mechanisms, permission-transparency, packet-installer, subtle notifications, etc., all this works for me and im using my desktop less and less for a reason.
molesarecoming said:
what boggles me is that android is the first os that has gotten my trust, for better or for worse. as strange as it may sound, i like updates, i am happy when notifications drop in and i certainly read the changelogs and see what's new. no other OS has ever been able to do that to me. i am using windows at work, macosx at home and linux for website stuff. some of these systems are here for decades, and yet they have never really taken care of my needs. i have no trust in them and never had, i click away update nagscreens whenever i see them, i hate when firefox bugs me with it, i dont trust any application, i know they put their dump into my systems, mess it up from inside, they have brought their own installation/deinstallation scripts and deamons for updates that clog my ram and suck my bandwidth, they are unsigned and unsafe, they spam my screen with popups, i do not know what permissions they require and what api's they call - they do whatever they want. i use them because i have to.
yes, android has kinks and problems, but this is the cleanest OS, from a users standpoint, i have seen and used. my technical background may be lacking but this is the first impression. and because of that i can deal with buggy apps just fine, i either tollerate it or uninstall and search for something works on the market. and for some crazy reason i enjoy it, although i hated it on pc/mac/linux. so in this regard i think the app-market is doing great. it is true of course that the quality of the apps varies alot, but many do have high standards and work flawlessly. i for one think it is good that the android market does not have severe restrictions, because updates can get pushed when a defect is found. you have the opposite on apple and i did read reports that state their apps generally crash more often, which makes absolute sense because each update must go through an odyssey of admittance. bugs itself will always happen, every programmer knows that, but the android market has made sure that we do not suffer from them as much as on other systems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your inputs. I would like to clarify a couple of things, if you don't mind.
I have never made a comment about the Google Play Store's update process that updates the downloaded applications. Since you did, I do agree with you regarding the advantages you rightly addressed. What I might not agree with you is the trust where my credit card details can be added to the profile Google creates for all the citizens.
My point, that you responded to, was about the inability Android OS has to update itself the way, for example, Microsoft Windows or Apple's iOS can. Also the only thing Android can update on any Android handsets is the Google Play Store app. I found this very unfair when thousands of users, behalf the rest, were campaigning to push their respective manufacturers to release the next version of Android. During such campaign I fell ill from the distress. I cannot recall going through such similar experience in my 20+ in I.T. Believe me, being a software developer I can tolerate high mental pressures but that experience was something else. I don't wish anyone else go through the same experience ever and they shouldn't really.
I've been writing this article with the consideration of the bigger issues. I cannot conclude Android is a good platform based on a small technical convenience when I have vivid visions on what Google is doing with Android and beyond the mobile space.
If my ID suggests I must be a Microsoft's fan then allow me to say to the readers that I have only two Android phones which I use one of them to write my article and this response. Also I use an Android phone as my primary device, using up to three 1930mAh batteries a day. No, I don't watch movies on my phones but listen to music from time to time.
nejc121 said:
Holy ****, someone here has a massive grudge against Google and Android.
You see, you seem to be making contradictions on your own writing.
They never said 400,000 amazing super duper apps, they said 400,000 apps, no matter what quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
His name leads me to believe Microsoft Fanboi - C# is a Microsoft language very similar to java - but has enough similarities to be it's own language.
edit - you posted at a similar time to me.
I will read this from now on, but probably won't comment. I enjoy hearing what ppl have to say.
i have to use c# daily in my job, its great, my favourite until now. did you know that google once played with the thought to make it androids base language? read it somewhere. must be a myth though.
---------- Post added at 11:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 PM ----------
CSharpHeaven said:
I found this very unfair when thousands of users, behalf the rest, were campaigning to push their respective manufacturers to release the next version of Android. During such campaign I fell ill from the distress. I cannot recall going through such similar experience in my 20+ in I.T.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, i am certainly pissed that my older handset, the s2, caught a disease called touchwizz recently instead of the modern operatig system i was hoping for. but falling ill? come on, get another phone, an iphone maybe, or if you still have hopes for android a nexus, and all will be fine. i learned my lesson from this, i'll never, ever buy something that is not directly maintained by google itself. i heard some people really loved touchwiz and samsungs efforts, to each his own. i thing its nice though that you have the choice.
1st off, My house is an android powered house and I love the platform. It is only after months of being around my girlfriend and her family as they used android, that I started to really put a finer point on why so many people prefer other OS's (yes i understand Android is grabbing up market share like crazy). this is my thoughts after watching people I know use and leave android, use and struggle with android, and use and love android.
1st off, a list of the things that aren't google fault per say, but pit falls due to there lack of control over the final product.
#1) battery life. Due to varying hardware design and the freedom to do as you please to the OS, manufactures have made some phones with really bad battery life. this coupled with the constant updating a android device can do for any apps and the increase in popularity of cloud service, android ends up with wildly varying battery life from device to device.
#2) Consistency. If someone had a Verizon "droid", they could be using a Sense UI, a moto blur UI, or vanilla android. That's just in that one "brand of phone" alone. People dont adapt well to tech if they aren't big tech fans.
#3 quality of hardware, and I'm not talking about specs. Most consumers only judge the internals on how smooth the final product is. No, I'm talking about, build materials and the screen. There is some junk out there (allot of them have great internals). some of these phones are built like toys with race car parts inside them.
Now for where google is falling short.
#1 marketing. This is amazing to me that an Advertising company would fall short here but they do. Google ads focus on strange things like the ability to unlock your bootloader. Most people have no idea what this means and why they should care. They probably shouldn't care since they will never hack there phones.
also, every time Apple comes out with an "I" product ad, they are doing a real good job of showing how there "new feature" will make your life more fun and allot easier. The funny thing is, they are almost always features that android already had.
This is one of the things I really started to notice as I was surrounded by the non tech savvy android users. I would say, "funny, android already does that, has for a while now". My girlfriend would then ask, "does my phone do that?". Wow Google, you should be the master and telling people about all the selling points of your product.
#2 ease of use. This one may also be an issue with the carriers but I am going to put it in this section. One of the things I again noticed as I helped my girlfriend master here Nexus S 4G was, weird quirks that are not even a stumbling block to a Tech savvy user but almost a deal breaker to the average consumer.
Example: when my girlfriend 1st got here nexus, she hated it, couldn't believe I recommended it. One of her issues that stuck in my mind was the SMS limit. She hated that the SMS would cap her before she was done texing a message. She didnt care if it sent as two messages but she wanted to be able to type one continues message and then send it, letting the software sort it out. So I said, no problem, my phone doesn't do that (galaxy nexus) so there must be a deep setting to control this. As it turns out there wasn't, at least I couldn't find it. So again, I said no problem and down loaded handsent witch fixed the problem and she loved the easy theming. Well along came here ICS update that I had been raving about and her phone started crashing. Turns out handsent was the reason. Again, I said, no problem and downloaded Go SMS witch she loves even more.
That's just one example, in the mean time, 4 people in her family have switched from android to I Phones and don't regret it. I feel that one of them was mainly due to the hardware they chose and the rest is because they didn't have the live in tech help that my girlfriend has ( don't mean that to sound arrogant). My girlfriend loves her phone partly because I fix each issue as it arises and inform her of cool features.
Conclusion: I really think that the the lack of consistency is the other side of the open source double edged sword. this shows it self in software and hardware. It can be as small as the order in witch the bottom buttons appear, and as big as the Sense UI that changes everything a little bit. I also feel that no one besides Verizon in the early days, is really advertising Android well. Even Verizon doesn't do as good of a job showing you how much the phones can do and why you should want these features as Apple does.
Oddly I aggree with most of that, esp the marketing, you know I just found out just how good google voice was the other day... I have had android phones now for 3 years... Lol.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
funny you should bring up google voice. That was one of the things that I was thinking about when it comes to advertising short comings. It has been a great feature and a solid performer and now with Jellybean, it has every function of Siri, with the performance level I have come to expect from Google voice.
google needs to talk about it in plain English with every day examples of implementation
All of those faults/cons/criticisms can be attributed to just about any device/thing/object/concept that endorses an open-ended nature. The one off the top of my head that fits the OP's bill nearly word for word is Windows (technically Windows is closed-source). The Playstation 3 is a similar concept too. It's got all the nice bells and tech but its advertising sucks.
Google doesn't need to do any advertising, but rather the respective manufacturers. They're the ones that should be selling what Android does for their phones and why people should choose their phones over the others. If there are feature discrepancies from one phone to the other, the manufacturers should work to get those features implemented, that's the real strength of open-source software. It helps a lot if a manufacturer works together with their modding community to make it happen, which in turns makes your product/device more competitive and play on that.
Google caters to the developers because that's what Google is: a developer. That's why Google has their own line of phones: Nexus. Their phones are catered to the developers and well...us XDA'ers. They do a good job at advertising where it matters: recent one being their own conference just a week ago. If it reassures the OP: the rumor that Google plans to expand the Nexus line to more manufacturers is a good thing for us XDAers and friends of XDAers.
alpha-niner64 said:
All of those faults/cons/criticisms can be attributed to just about any device/thing/object/concept that endorses an open-ended nature. The one off the top of my head that fits the OP's bill nearly word for word is Windows (technically Windows is closed-source). The Playstation 3 is a similar concept too. It's got all the nice bells and tech but its advertising sucks.
Google doesn't need to do any advertising, but rather the respective manufacturers. They're the ones that should be selling what Android does for their phones and why people should choose their phones over the others. If there are feature discrepancies from one phone to the other, the manufacturers should work to get those features implemented, that's the real strength of open-source software. It helps a lot if a manufacturer works together with their modding community to make it happen, which in turns makes your product/device more competitive and play on that.
Google caters to the developers because that's what Google is: a developer. That's why Google has their own line of phones: Nexus. Their phones are catered to the developers and well...us XDA'ers. They do a good job at advertising where it matters: recent one being their own conference just a week ago.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1st off, other companies doing it too, its not a reason to ignore said issue. Also, windows is taking steps to correct the hardware issue and make there OS consistent (for example)
If you think google doesn't "have to" advertise, I guess your right but even companies like 3M who sells many products to OEM's that then sell to the end user (like google) advertise to further there brand and promote the use of there products by OEM's. Also, 3M knows more about the products than any one OEM that uses there products, not to mention, the OEM's that use 3M consider 3M to be one of the reasons there product is good, and will not focus on key points of the 3M element.
Also, look at gorilla glass from corning, another product that isn't sold direct to the end user. They do there own advertising to promote there product and increase brand recognition to better sell there product.
I also disagree that google is a developer selling to developers only. Google nexus 7 is a perfect example of that. The nexus 7 tab is meant to further the "play store" brand, and is being sold at a vary low price point in the hopes that play store sales will make up for it just like the Kindle. I also don't think the Galaxy Nexus is a "developer device" at least, not exclusively.
So does google have to, no. Should they want to, yes.
What would you have Google advertise about that other companies should be doing in their stead? Google has brand recognition already and it's pretty clear by Google I/O that their intended audience isn't the Apple crowd: so who else would there be to advertise to? If the Apple crowd is whom you're referring to: that should be Samsung, HTC, Sony's job to do. What can Google do to help those manufacturers sell their features to the consumer that those companies aren't already doing themselves?
This is where we are going to disagree. Google has brand recognition but Android has far less. Verizon, did the best job and now the "droid" brand has more recognition than "android", many times "droid" is used and the general brand for all android by consumers. I don't think Google should depend on hardware companies to advertise there product. Even windows advertises there software. The OEM's should ALSO advertise but not ONLY advertise.
Advertising that the Galaxy nexus has a "unlockable" boot loader is un needed and doesnt further the brand. 98% of the people who want a unlocked boot loader, knew the galaxy nexus had one before the ad hit the streets.
The fact that apple fans are oviusly not googles target market is or should be false (proven by samsung). Google should be polishing there OS so that more of apple users would be interested. Google will not be able to continue on for ever just appealing to a small market such as the XDA community. OEM's will abandon them if that was the case. Look at the OEM's and there behavior, they are not interested in selling phones to the developer community only, otherwise Motorola would not lock there phones down as they did, or at least they would offer developers unlock tools like HTC has done. HTC is a little more "developer marketed" but lets be real, they still drag there feet when ever they can or feel pressure from the big 3.
That leads me to the Carrier's, they do not want to sell phones marketed to developers that are easily hacked and modded. they want control. Google should want to sell the most units they can within reason. This means helping the developer community with there goals and helping the OEM's and Carrier's with there's. Google should be (and I think they are) trying to make android more marketable to the masses and then lead that marketing campaign by example.
Its like that old saying, "alone with your principles". You can stand here and say that the OEM's should do all the advertising but it doesn't change the fact that they aren't doing what needs to be done and google need to sell product that is dependent on the platform. They are an advertising company so do they sit back and hope HTC and Samsung start talking more about there product and doing more to show how it will improve our lives or should they step in and show the OEM's how its done, at the same time increasing the value of there products
I think a lot of your issues are going to be solved for the mainstream with more Nexus devices rolling out. The other great thing is that as more people start looking at Nexus flexibility and timely updates the more other OEMs will be forced to follow suit if they want to stay viable. It seems Sony and to some extent HTC and Samsung are pretty serious about both the hardware and update side of things so anyone else will just have to play catch-up.
As a whole though some of these things will continue to persist. One of the draws of Android devices is having smartphone abilities without ridiculous cost. There will always be people who want the goodies but don't have a lot of extra funds and those devices will simply be a little behind the curve. With the optimizations coming via Jellybean though OEMs won't have the excuse of claiming that newer versions are too complex for older phones and I would hope that they continue to push updates for a reasonable period.
Stupid post. Why? Because you have no clue what android is. Android is an open source operating system. OEM's take android, and just so you know, they don't need google's consent, and manipulate it the way they want to put on their hardware. Google has no say in what they do to it, how they arrange their buttons, or the UI that they add to it. So your post is more directed at OEM's than google.
lowandbehold said:
Stupid post. Why? Because you have no clue what android is. Android is an open source operating system. OEM's take android, and just so you know, they don't need google's consent, and manipulate it the way they want to put on their hardware. Google has no say in what they do to it, how they arrange their buttons, or the UI that they add to it. So your post is more directed at OEM's than google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you read my post you would have seen I acknowledge that some of these issues are a side effect of open source. They do in fact charge for the "gaps" suite. all hardware sold with gaps on it has paid licensing to Google.
dB Zac said:
if you read my post you would have seen I acknowledge that some of these issues are a side effect of open source. They do in fact charge for the "gaps" suite. all hardware sold with gaps on it has paid licensing to Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So? Google gets no say in how they manipulate the OS. I mean seriously...battery life? How the f*** could that be a google issue?
I spesificly said that wasn't Google's fault, but a short coming of open source
Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk 2
dB Zac said:
I spesificly said that wasn't Google's fault, but a short coming of open source
Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like you need an Iphone..
lowandbehold said:
Sounds like you need an Iphone..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I have to love it and ignore any and all short coming or be crusified? Ok sounds like a page from apple fanboyism
here, since you will not read the whole thing before commenting, i will post the part you seemed to miss
dB Zac said:
1st off, a list of the things that aren't google fault per say, but pit falls due to there lack of control over the final product.
#1) battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dB Zac said:
1st off, My house is an android powered house and I love the platform. It is only after months of being around my girlfriend and her family as they used android, that I started to really put a finer point on why so many people prefer other OS's (yes i understand Android is grabbing up market share like crazy). this is my thoughts after watching people I know use and leave android, use and struggle with android, and use and love android.
1st off, a list of the things that aren't google fault per say, but pit falls due to there lack of control over the final product.
#1) battery life. Due to varying hardware design and the freedom to do as you please to the OS, manufactures have made some phones with really bad battery life. this coupled with the constant updating a android device can do for any apps and the increase in popularity of cloud service, android ends up with wildly varying battery life from device to device.
#2) Consistency. If someone had a Verizon "droid", they could be using a Sense UI, a moto blur UI, or vanilla android. That's just in that one "brand of phone" alone. People dont adapt well to tech if they aren't big tech fans.
#3 quality of hardware, and I'm not talking about specs. Most consumers only judge the internals on how smooth the final product is. No, I'm talking about, build materials and the screen. There is some junk out there (allot of them have great internals). some of these phones are built like toys with race car parts inside them.
Now for where google is falling short.
#1 marketing. This is amazing to me that an Advertising company would fall short here but they do. Google ads focus on strange things like the ability to unlock your bootloader. Most people have no idea what this means and why they should care. They probably shouldn't care since they will never hack there phones.
also, every time Apple comes out with an "I" product ad, they are doing a real good job of showing how there "new feature" will make your life more fun and allot easier. The funny thing is, they are almost always features that android already had.
This is one of the things I really started to notice as I was surrounded by the non tech savvy android users. I would say, "funny, android already does that, has for a while now". My girlfriend would then ask, "does my phone do that?". Wow Google, you should be the master and telling people about all the selling points of your product.
#2 ease of use. This one may also be an issue with the carriers but I am going to put it in this section. One of the things I again noticed as I helped my girlfriend master here Nexus S 4G was, weird quirks that are not even a stumbling block to a Tech savvy user but almost a deal breaker to the average consumer.
Example: when my girlfriend 1st got here nexus, she hated it, couldn't believe I recommended it. One of her issues that stuck in my mind was the SMS limit. She hated that the SMS would cap her before she was done texing a message. She didnt care if it sent as two messages but she wanted to be able to type one continues message and then send it, letting the software sort it out. So I said, no problem, my phone doesn't do that (galaxy nexus) so there must be a deep setting to control this. As it turns out there wasn't, at least I couldn't find it. So again, I said no problem and down loaded handsent witch fixed the problem and she loved the easy theming. Well along came here ICS update that I had been raving about and her phone started crashing. Turns out handsent was the reason. Again, I said, no problem and downloaded Go SMS witch she loves even more.
That's just one example, in the mean time, 4 people in her family have switched from android to I Phones and don't regret it. I feel that one of them was mainly due to the hardware they chose and the rest is because they didn't have the live in tech help that my girlfriend has ( don't mean that to sound arrogant). My girlfriend loves her phone partly because I fix each issue as it arises and inform her of cool features.
Conclusion: I really think that the the lack of consistency is the other side of the open source double edged sword. this shows it self in software and hardware. It can be as small as the order in witch the bottom buttons appear, and as big as the Sense UI that changes everything a little bit. I also feel that no one besides Verizon in the early days, is really advertising Android well. Even Verizon doesn't do as good of a job showing you how much the phones can do and why you should want these features as Apple does.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok let me help you out.
#2: Actually, Droid branding is owned by motorola, therefore they will only be using blur UI.
Marketing: Google is not in the business of advertising an OEM's phone. That is up to the OEM and the OEM only.
Ease of use: Apple owns a patent that breaks up the long text AFTER it is typed. Therefore, it would be illegal for Android to use it. Example invalid.
Conclusion: Verizon sucks.
You really did not point out 1 thing that google has control over in your whole post.
lowandbehold said:
Stupid post. Why? Because you have no clue what android is. Android is an open source operating system. OEM's take android, and just so you know, they don't need google's consent, and manipulate it the way they want to put on their hardware. Google has no say in what they do to it, how they arrange their buttons, or the UI that they add to it. So your post is more directed at OEM's than google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/03/14/android-isnt-really-open-its-just-less-closed-than-apple/
Google only cares about advertising (and like to snoop in on what you do, say, what you buy, where you shop, visit, etc... ) of course.
But they do have pretty good control over Android.
lowandbehold said:
Ok let me help you out.
#2: Actually, Droid branding is owned by motorola, therefore they will only be using blur UI.
Marketing: Google is not in the business of advertising an OEM's phone. That is up to the OEM and the OEM only.
Ease of use: Apple owns a patent that breaks up the long text AFTER it is typed. Therefore, it would be illegal for Android to use it. Example invalid.
Conclusion: Verizon sucks.
You really did not point out 1 thing that google has control over in your whole post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1st off, "droid" always running blur was not the point and incorrect. Verizon owns the "droid" name, as it is licensed to them by Lucus Industries. hence the HTC phones under that same brand name. I was commenting on the superior advertizing and Branding that Verizon did. The Droid 1 was a great vanilla phone that did well in a large part, due to advertizing. The verizon campain made "droid" a household name, more so than "Android".
2nd google can advertise features and the OS without advertising a specifice peice of hardware, windows does it all the time. Also, since google does have Google branded harware (nexus), they are in the hardware biz and should advertize aas such.
"Verizon sucks" based on what I can only emagin was your reasoning for this statement, I'm sure all major cariers "suck, not really the point here. Out of all the cariers, Verizon, furthered the android the most in the last 3 years out of anyone. Only now is Samsung beging to be the leader in promoting the android platform.
I agree with you on this, anyone who ask me what phone to get, i personally recommend iPhone UNLESS the guy knows his stuff, i myself LOVE android, been using it for 3 years now but i am software developer and very much familiar with kernels and bootloaders and and and , someone was aksing me the other day, since Android has much bigger marketshare, why everything comes out for iPhone first?
answer is simple, as a developer making things for iPhone is sooooo much easier, you only have "ONE" screen dimension to worry about, you only got 3-4 phones to worry about which 90% of them are similar, now compare this with android phones !!!
and last as everyone mentioned is advertising, personally i think google and all manufacturers do a HORRIBLE job promoting , remember when iCloud came out? nothing new really, just another DropBox, but Apple made such a big deal about it, everyone was AMAZED !!! same with siri, and so many other things,
Personally i think iPhone WORKS, its great for people who dont think outside the box, they want something that WORKS and thats it, they like to be TOLD what to do, how to use your phone , and they follow it.
Android is for thone who like to explore, install custom ROMs , play with OC/UV , etc.
Raul77 said:
remember when iCloud came out? nothing new really, just another DropBox, but Apple made such a big deal about it, everyone was AMAZED !!! same with siri, and so many other things
thats another real good example of, others were 1st but Apple advertizes better
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually came from a blackberry, where in convention they make and market their devices.
When I switched to android now essentially Samsung was giving me their flavour of what they call android through Touchwiz and I really hated it.
Google should really take sometime to ensure manufacturers aren't dumbing down the platform for consumers and give users a clear overview of how it can serve them. Which is exactly what Google does with its Nexus.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
https://medium.com/@roundedeverett/who-is-nokia-cb24ecbc52a9
Very interesting article (and related links in it) about how shady and deep could be the world behind the brand Nokia (or what it was).
As Nokia consumer, aficionado to the actual Brand, I'm feeling a little betrayed. Yesterday I spent the whole evening uninstalling through ADB all the Evenwell apps, but in my mind it's not the same as it was.
You guys have any thoughts?
Really scary stuff in this article... But how on earth Google allows Nokia to have their phones with Androidone label?
Sent from my Nokia 7 plus using Tapatalk
azizmulhim said:
Really scary stuff in this article... But how on earth Google allows Nokia to have their phones with Androidone label?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
does Google really know?
What’s new!! Most phone manufacturers do things with their phones, if its not their own skin on top of Android it is make no them look faster than they are when using benchmarks or if of Chinese origin then possible spyware to monitor usage etc.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Stransky said:
What’s new!! Most phone manufacturers do things with their phones, if its not their own skin on top of Android it is make no them look faster than they are when using benchmarks or if of Chinese origin then possible spyware to monitor usage etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, of course, but I feel like it's slightly less "legit" than some offboard-crappy-chinese brand. It's not Cubot, UMIDIGI, or Chuwi, I mean, we're talking about Nokia, it has heritage.
taldeital said:
yeah, of course, but I feel like it's slightly less "legit" than some offboard-crappy-chinese brand. It's not Cubot, UMIDIGI, or Chuwi, I mean, we're talking about Nokia, it has heritage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but then Foxcon makes the innards, so Chinese are involved.
Sent from my Nokia 7 plus using Tapatalk
I read that article yesterday. It confirmed what I had suspected all along. I had a nice chat in a telegram group about this. I'll post my side of conversation here, they contain my opinions. I'm sorry I'd love to type all that but it's very late here and I'm already getting a bit of headache [emoji14]
TL;DR - Google needs to look into this and also clarify how much "freedom" OEMs get to play in the Androidone ecosystem. And HMD should have their own software division as it'll also help people directly connect through their forums.
Gravemind2015:
Well it needs to be said now, more than ever. I had my suspicions from day one, and now it's clear that 2 of their 3 promises are based on thin air.
As evenwell isn't part of either AOSP or androidone, the "pure" tag deserves to be used on pixel phones more than HMD phones.
And, as the company evenwell, if it even is a company, or rather a division inside FIH to handle software; is shady enough. Even the MIUI and other Chinese ROMs have clear development divisions inside their company and the software are at least handled by the phone company themselves.
Another interesting thing to note is if FIH makes the hardware and ships the software, what is the role of HMD in the making of phones? Only designing sketches I guess. They're more interested in selling the stuff, rather than making it. This is what makes the key difference between HMD and Nokia. Nokia made the phones, innovative or not. HMD is just selling customized generic phones, although the hardware has quality.
I know it might hurt to read this, and I'm aware as I've two Nokia smartphones in my house too, but the sad truth is they are not what they advertise they are, people buy the phones thinking they are Nokia, we buy phones thinking they are HMD consisting of people who worked at Nokia, but they are just like every other phone that was built by a single manufacturing company.
Although the hardware manufacturing is understandable as the company is relatively new and is building a sustainable business before diving into a DYI approach, the least they could have done is to invest in an in-house software development division to handle the software component.
Another interesting thing to look here is the role of Google and to know if addition of core system level applications as well as usage of substitute system apps in place of the AOSP/Google implementation are allowed in phones under the Androidone program; and if so, the definition of "pure" android that Google true to relate it's Androidone term to. If androidone is advertised at is best and Android as how Google sees it; then maybe they consider evenwell a part of androidone, and maybe consider that FIH division to be very good and competent. I doubt if Google actually admits to it, but the statements I told here in the previous sentence are the common sentences being used to describe androidone; at least in Nokia events."
Another thing to add: If they really can't have their own software team, they can at least ensure transparency and Google should check the Android software and block the usage of the power.g3 sort of applications at minimum. And give public a clear and easy to understand definition of androidone, what the OEMs have freedom to choose from etc.
And one benefit of HMD having their own software division would be that they could directly connect and take feedback from the users and then work on them. They've got their own forum, they've got Twitter too. Am in-house division would help them supervise on the "secure" part too.
Broadcasted from Zeta Reticuli
taldeital said:
https://medium.com/@roundedeverett/who-is-nokia-cb24ecbc52a9
Very interesting article (and related links in it) about how shady and deep could be the world behind the brand Nokia (or what it was).
As Nokia consumer, aficionado to the actual Brand, I'm feeling a little betrayed. Yesterday I spent the whole evening uninstalling through ADB all the Evenwell apps, but in my mind it's not the same as it was.
You guys have any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the info.
have you noticed any weird behaviour after removing the evenwell packages? Would you be interested in creating a guide on how to remove them?
jv.batista said:
thanks for the info.
have you noticed any weird behaviour after removing the evenwell packages? Would you be interested in creating a guide on how to remove them?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so far, no weird behaviour. I just lost two VPNs but I already set them up again, so no trouble.
I used this guide: https://www.xda-developers.com/uninstall-carrier-oem-bloatware-without-root-access/ to uninstall most of the Evenwell packages, g3powersomething among them.
a Nokia 2 user (@jcd000) did a great job naming all the shady packages safe to be uninstalled: https://forum.xda-developers.com/general/general/nokia-2-apps-safe-to-delete-t3783158
there are also several Google packages among them, just use your rule of thumb to know what do you actually need and what not, using descriptions of the packages.
If you think a whole comprehensive guide would be useful, I'll write it, no problem.
jv.batista said:
thanks for the info.
have you noticed any weird behaviour after removing the evenwell packages? Would you be interested in creating a guide on how to remove them?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
probably somebody more experienced than me could write a batch with adb commands to batch uninstall all the packages in once!
I could probably do it too, but it'll take a couple of months :laugh:
in the meantime, nobody answers from HMD/Nokia HQ: https://twitter.com/taldeital/status/1090322409704603649
I tried to stimulate a conversation or at least I was looking for some answer, plausible or not.
I was able to disable a lot of apps from evenwell in Android Pie 9.0.
So far I do not see any impact on my phone.
same here, after few days everything smooth.
device seems also less laggy.
Well that's an interesting article.. I just disabled like 16 evenwell apps and left 12 enabled.. let see if anything change
I am running the phone with all the evenwell apps disabled. There is slightly higher drain in idle, but the notifications arrive properly...
From the performance and functionality, nothing is impacted...