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WI-FI versus BLUETOOTH

I have just setup a wireless network in my home. Compared to bluetooth it is absolutley brilliant, I have fast internet on my laptop downstairs, wifi card in ipaq working great and it was a doddle to install, whereas bluetooth presents nightmares to configure, wont work with lots of devices, is short range and very slow. For anybody who is in 2 minds I would suggest wireless is the best by far in all ways.

Hi,
Apologies if I misunderstood you, but I think you missed the point of Bluetooth/WiFi. They really are completely different technologies.
Bluetooth is designed to be short range and lower power and to be able to communicate a multitude of devices wirelessly (i.e. keyboards, mice, GPS, headsets as well as forming mini networks). It's also not really designed to be "high speed" as in the same sort of levels of WiFi.
WiFi on the other hand is ONLY for networking and compared to Bluetooth it IS much faster as you've realised and it is designed for bigger distances, but the power drain is also considerably more as well.
That's why your device has both technologies, so that you can choose which method suits you best. Personally I use the WiFi for networking, but the Bluetooth for talking to my GPS and Handsfree. I've ran a Bluetooth network before and found them quite stable (driver/firmware versions will assist here) and they're okay in an emergency, but they're really not that speedy at all.

So wifi is limited in its capabilities? So no chance of wireless gps or wireless headsets for phones?

I wouldn't say it's limited. Wireless Fidelity is wireless networking. That's what it was designed for and that's what it does.
You do get network webcams as well as network printers etc which could directly or indirectly take advantage of WiFi, but that's about as diverse as I think it goes and even then it's not really WiFi doing the work. The devices themselves have built in network cards.
Technically you could have a headset with a built in network card/wireless tranceiver, but I think since they can already do that with Bluetooth in very small sizes/low power/low cost... I can't see a WiFi implementation happening anytime soon, if ever. More likely it'll skip WiFi and that sort of thing will go in whatever wireless technology comes out next.
But aside from possibly a headset with longer range and faster networking, what else would you want to use with a range more than 10m or needs faster speeds?
I suspect mobile phones will start including 100m Bluetooth when they work out how to get the power down, but I don't believe that'll increase the speeds. But hey I didn't write/design the spec, so who knows?

I was also quite surprised and pleased by the simplicity of setting the wireless network, on the desktop I took about 1 minute, no added software, just a couple of clicks and a reboot, on the laptop I installed the software, plugged in the card and it immediately found the network and asked me politely if I would like to use it, brilliant implementation of a superb system. I also saw an advert for a long distance network connection, 3 miles I think, that would be a cheap way of all your family using a single high speed broadband connection in the same town.

The answer is simple:
Can you use high speed WIFI for more than 3 hours with any PPC with standard battery? BT does that well.
You should compensate the high speed of connection and simplicity in configuration (not very sure about this) to the longer usage time.

[Q] Unstable WiFi

Hi,
My Nexus S WiFi is really unstable, it disconnects quite frequently, even when the screen is ON and I'm working. No youtube video plays to the end before the Wifi disconnects, this is really annoying.
iPhone and Galaxy works fine on the same WiFi network.
Please don't suggest resetting the router and changing channels, I've done that already and its an open network (no security) but it allows only certain Mac Addresses. Is there any real fix available or do I have to live with it?
Thanks!

from what i can tell, like the gs, the wifi, gps and perhaps other components have taken a hit in terms of their sensitivity. perhaps interference from other componenets, perhaps a poor broadcom board. who knows. whoever does, isn't saying.

The Intricacies of Teathering over wifi

Hi guys I recently lost my cable service and I've been relying on my inspire for wifi around the house lately. I thought I'd share a few tidbits with you that I've gleaned from the experience.
My inspire is running cyanogen mod 7 nightlies and I found that it only broadcasts wifi on channel 6 - very annoying because most routers ship with channel 6 as the default (at least here in the US)
This means that if there are wifi networks near you your range is going to be unpleasant. If you have a wireless router in your house make sure you change it to channel 11 - that tends to significantly decrease interference issues between the two devices. Pick up a free wifi analyzer program in the market it will let you scan all the networks in the area and show you the free channels - very helpful if you're setting up a network in an apartment complex! Just keep in mind channel 6 needs to be free near your phone if you're tethering otherwise you'll suffer from some drastically reduced range and speed.
My wireless router is running dd-wrt and can broadcast on channels 12-14 as well - European and Japanese standards. The FCC probably wouldn't like it but it can seriously push my wifi out of the way of other networks. The inspire can NOT SEE THOSE CHANNELS. Not even with cm7 - I believe a kernel or radio fix could be implemented which would be nice.
I've tried bridging and sharing my wifi tethered desktop with the rest of my network but I've run across a few serious issues with the windows 7 network stack. It hates the fact that I have and use so many networks and network adapters. I'm going to push my luck some more but at the moment I'm content having finally gotten them to work together at the same time so I can stream some movies to the other systems in the house while tethered with my phone.
The most annoying issue I've found lately is that at&t seems to be monitoring my use of unusual ports. Every few days I find that many applications I depend on stop having access to the internet over the tethered connection - the ports get blocked - all but port 80 which only allows basic browsing. The best way that I've found to fix this is to shut the phone down properly, pull the battery, and turn it back on. It seems to lose it's specific network address and gain full port access again.
Just some food for thought guys, I thought I'd share this stuff with you because of the issues I've had making it work. Maybe it will help others to be less frustrated.

Here is a list of wishes:
The ability to change the broadcast channel while tethering
The ability to view, use, and broadcast on channels 12-14
The ability to increase transmit power by a few mw through a userland interface

Thanks for the info and I'm really sorry you lost your cable service

Me too - this economy sucks

Interesting info. What app are you using?

encryption is not compatible RANT

I have all kinds of computers tablets and gadgets. I have had no problems connecting to my wireless network until the Microsoft Surface came along. My router is the Motorola NVG 510. It doesn't have many settings that can be changed. I am using WPA2 Personal AES and a password. The only way I can Connect My Surface to this network is to turn off encryption. l had the same problem with the Surface RT. .
Tried for 24 hours now to connect... AT & T Says the problem is Microsoft related and Microsoft blames AT & T . l GIVE UP!!. Returning the Surface and going to keep my Samsung Slate 7 . . . has Windows8- WiFi and 3G. . .

how the hell do AT&T come into your wireless settings?

SixSixSevenSeven said:
how the hell do AT&T come into your wireless settings?
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Click to collapse
It is AT&T's router. I have Uverse and this is the one they gave us.Motorola should be who i call if anyone but the problem is Microsoft's ..All others have no problem connecting

shEEEsh said:
I have all kinds of computers tablets and gadgets. I have had no problems connecting to my wireless network until the Microsoft Surface came along. My router is the Motorola NVG 510. It doesn't have many settings that can be changed. I am using WPA2 Personal AES and a password. The only way I can Connect My Surface to this network is to turn off encryption. l had the same problem with the Surface RT. .
Tried for 24 hours now to connect... AT & T Says the problem is Microsoft related and Microsoft blames AT & T . l GIVE UP!!. Returning the Surface and going to keep my Samsung Slate 7 . . . has Windows8- WiFi and 3G. . .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never had an issue with any form of encryption with the Surface RT - it's got the standard windows 8 wifi stack and connects to anything I throw at it, including WPA2/AES.
Not sure why you're having an issue, but you haven't given us much to go on for troubleshooting.

And getting a real router isn't possible?

Talon Pro said:
And getting a real router isn't possible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently this (MOTOROLA NVG510) router is the only one I can use in my area with U-Verse.

Thats bull. Is it a combo router/modem? If so you should still be able to hook up a wireless router off of that if it has at least one ethernet port.

see thats what BT claimed when they installed BT infinity at my grandparents but we dont have the stock router running off of it

Thanks for the suggestions. I returned the Surface. I don't know enough about routers and modems to install anything else or even how to buy something else. On the other hand. Annoys me that every gadget I own (and there are many) connects with no problem EXCEPT the surface.
diane

Your router is old. Something is probably interfering with the Surface Pro's connectivity. Your SP's wifi card isn't busted if it can connect without encryption. It shouldn't have a problem. I'd suggest ditching the modem's wifi and buying a router and using that instead for wifi and leave the modem alone.
99% sure it's a setting in your router that's causing you to not be able to connect a new device through wifi.

First port of call when having wifi issues is to remove all encryption/security settings and have it as a fully open network, if that works then slowly add security/encryption until you find out where it falls over, worse case scenario is a network that appears to be open but uses MAC address filtering to keep people out.

Trig0r said:
First port of call when having wifi issues is to remove all encryption/security settings and have it as a fully open network, if that works then slowly add security/encryption until you find out where it falls over, worse case scenario is a network that appears to be open but uses MAC address filtering to keep people out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the problem was for sure the modem. There are no settings to tweak... It's gotta be the worst modem on the planet-but then U.verse doesn't feel any faster than my old ATT DSL connection. I asked to have my DSL back and ATT said that was not an option. ATT told me this modern is the only one for my area. Maybe it is time I looked into Brighthouse. I am sure there is a way around that modem but in my frustration I returned the Surface. Very sure I will buy another Surface . . I still have my Samsung Slate 7 with Windows 8... Another plus is it has a 3G connection. the more I use Windows 8 the more I like it, wish the Slate was a bit smaller.

Wireless encryption is done router side rather than modem side. You can use the ISP's modem and the connect it to an aftermarket router without issue. Its impossible for the ISP to prevent that. If its a combo modem and router then it is still possible to do.
All routers must have settings, unless you mean it has limited settings.
I've lucked out personally. My ISP's free router isn't the best on the planet but as a freeby is great. Full range of settings. Its a combo modem/router in one but I haven't had issues with that and it is perfectly happy for me to plug other routers into it (which I did once as an ethernet extension cable of sorts, otherwise my other routers are inferior) or according to a friend who used to be on the same ISP it quite happily connects to other modens and acts as a router perfectly fine still.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
Wireless encryption is done router side rather than modem side. You can use the ISP's modem and the connect it to an aftermarket router without issue. Its impossible for the ISP to prevent that. If its a combo modem and router then it is still possible to do.
All routers must have settings, unless you mean it has limited settings.
I've lucked out personally. My ISP's free router isn't the best on the planet but as a freeby is great. Full range of settings. Its a combo modem/router in one but I haven't had issues with that and it is perfectly happy for me to plug other routers into it (which I did once as an ethernet extension cable of sorts, otherwise my other routers are inferior) or according to a friend who used to be on the same ISP it quite happily connects to other modens and acts as a router perfectly fine still.
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Click to collapse
We already tried to tell him that and he wouldnt listen.

>We already tried to tell him that and he wouldnt listen.
OP's name is Diane.
Secondly, as posted in the OP, the device is a Motorola NVG 510. A 10-second lookup would show that it's a combined ADSL2+router, and it's not a simple matter of swapping out a router. Combined-function devices are SOP for leased models, since it saves the company money over having two boxes.
http://google.com/search?q=Motorola+NVG+510
It's a Surface problem. The user shouldn't be expected to mess with things like router settings and learn to be a geek. The device in question is obviously in popular use, and it's up to MS to get it right. The OP did the correct thing in returning the Surface.
However, for those with more tech savvy, the above search produces this help page for the modem+router,
http://www.ron-berman.com/2011/11/24/motorola-nvg510-help-page-for-att-u-verse-users/
which has both the manual and more importantly, a FAQ to troubleshoot connection issues, and links to more appropriate forums to ask further questions on this particular topic.

As I said, even on a combo unit you can use a different router. As long as the new router can recieve internet from any other device via ethernet all you do is connect it to the ISPs router. It will then share that connection. Yes your ISP's router will still be broadcasting but so will the new 3rd party one, you just connect to that. This is a configuration I have tested with a BT homehub and some ****ty Netgear.
To access the new routers settings, unplug it from the ISPs router first and then access the settings in the normal way. or if you can find the new local IP for the additional router you can use that.

>As I said, even on a combo unit you can use a different router. As long as the new router can recieve internet from any other device via ethernet all you do is connect it to the ISPs router. It will then share that connection.
Either the new router has to be reconfig'ed into an AP, or the old router needs to be disabled. Can't have both routers active. Likewise, the old wifi needs to be disabled, or the new one reconfigured that they don't conflict. Regardless, it's not plug and play. Either or both units would need configuration.
The household Internet router is the single most critical piece of equipment there is, because if the user messes up, s/he loses Internet access ENTIRELY and access to any further help. Without local help, that may mean several days' downtime and an expensive bill for onsite repair. I would NEVER, EVER tell a non-tech user to reconfigure his/her router, especially when the person said "I don't know enough about routers and modems to install anything else or even how to buy something else."
Everyone here has good intentions and want to help. Then, the first thing to helping is to listen to what is said, and gauge the person's comfort level with tech. No one even bothered to check up on the OP's router model.
The OP has a stable, working setup. Anything that jeopardizes that setup is bad advice, not unless you are willing to foot the onsite service cost for the person. The preferred solution is to remove the known-problem component, which in this case is the Surface.
PS: A long shot is to go into the Surface's Device Manager, select the Properties tab of the wifi card, and muck around with the advanced settings (if there are any).

You can totally daisy-chain routers using their default settings. Not sure why you would think otherwise...
That said, if you wanted port forwarding and such to work smoothly, it *would* be best to turn off DHCP and NAT on the inner router. However, that's not necessary to simply get Internet access via the router.

GoodDayToDie said:
You can totally daisy-chain routers using their default settings. Not sure why you would think otherwise...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which is precisely what I originally said.
I have daisy chained a cheap as **** netgear router to my BT homehub without any setting changes at all. I was actually using it as an ethernet extension cable pretty much, I didnt have a single cable long enough so I plugged one between the homehub/main router and the netgear and one between the netgear and a raspberry pi. Would you look at that, my laptop can connect to the netgear and get internet access from it, the pi also connects via its ethernet port perfectly.
My grandparents use a set of homeplugs, how do they connect? daisy chaining.
One of my mates has 3 ethernet devices in one room but only one LAN port drilled into the wall (he had an electrician out once to actually have LAN sockets fitted in a few rooms). Solution: cheap wireless router connected to the LAN port in the wall. Other devices connected to the router. Router had 6 ports so he still has 2 left over. Devices connect to it fine. Originally it was default settings but he has since gone and disabled the routers wifi as he doesnt use it.
That said. I came across a linksys unit once which refused to be used as an access point of any kind. But that was only once.

>You can totally daisy-chain routers using their default settings. Not sure why you would think otherwise...
Having nested routers (ie segmenting the network) is a prescription for myriad network problems in the hands of a non-tech user. Again, listen to what the OP said, rather than assume everyone is a geek who knows what DHCP and NAT means, let alone how to change them.
Even if the OP can get the new router configured and running properly, the potential for problem remains. When ISP service goes down, the ISP tech will remote troubleshoot the leased equipment (the old router), since that's the ISP's responsibility. With user equipment attached, troubleshooting responsibility passes on to the user, which the OP has stated in no uncertain terms that she's not capable of.
The point isn't to get Internet access. The OP already has Internet access. The point is to get the Surface to connect to the network, but NOT AT THE EXPENSE of adding networking complications that the OP can't handle.
>I have daisy chained...
This suffices for simple Internet access, until you run into programs or devices that break because of the multiple redirections. I doubt UPNP/DLNA works on nested NATs. Ditto discovery. Devices/periphs on one network segment won't be able to connect to those on another segment.
The wifi will work, but given that most 2.4GHz wifi default to channel 1 or 6, it will likely conflict with the old wifi and work POORLY when both are active.

Patience has gone...

Gonna box up this fantastic looking & beautifully constructed piece of kit and return it for a refund,why?,the software is garbage.
Latest problem to hit my rt is the dreaded "limited WiFi".
Just ain't worth the hassle any more.

wildcat777 said:
Gonna box up this fantastic looking & beautifully constructed piece of kit and return it for a refund,why?,the software is garbage.
Latest problem to hit my rt is the dreaded "limited WiFi".
Just ain't worth the hassle any more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you update with the latest patches? As far as I know the limited connectivity WiFi issue was fixed weeks ago.

ctitanic said:
Did you update with the latest patches? As far as I know the limited connectivity WiFi issue was fixed weeks ago.
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Click to collapse
Yeah mate,done all the updates, but I'm still getting limited WiFi sporadically. The only way I can get my internet back when this happens is to switch of my surface completely and then switch on again, its really annoying. Shame really, really wanted to keep my surface, but the flakiness of the WiFi is a deal breaker,i take it your surface is working without this issue?.

wildcat777 said:
Yeah mate,done all the updates, but I'm still getting limited WiFi sporadically. The only way I can get my internet back when this happens is to switch of my surface completely and then switch on again, its really annoying. Shame really, really wanted to keep my surface, but the flakiness of the WiFi is a deal breaker,i take it your surface is working without this issue?.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have seen the limited connection message when I connect for the first time to a new network. I click the button for Airplane Mode off and on, reconnect, and the issue never comes back for that network. It also no always happens with all new networks.

Yeah toggling WiFi or Airplane mode fixes it when it happens.

Yeah I have this problem, but we shouldn't have to keep fixing this damn bug. I'm sick of bugs with my surface.... anyone had a video driver problem? I have!
Also I would have thought this tablet would have Silverlight, but according to Sky Go website it doesn't.
If anyone knows a work around then please share.

If you have pro model, you can just install latest Silverlight. I have it on mines. If its an rt, I'm not sure.

Silverlight was discontinued a long time ago... I would be more surprised by it being included in RT than not included. There is *no* good reason to use it, ever, even when it was new. It was only available for windows on x86, it had no native x64 version (x86 version crashed a fair bit) and the mac version was buggy. Severely limited site audience. Sky, netflix and BT in my opinion were completely retarded to use it, flash isn't a tech I love but does the exact same job and on multiple systems (including RT).
Netflix at least provided native apps for most platforms (including RT). They are also supposed to be moving to HTML5 instead of silverlight quite soon.
Just leaves Sky Go, the BT equivalent and a few other moronic sites.

wait, did you try updating your router's firmware???

Listen guys...
Solution is here !
I'm having the same issue with the same type of Surface (RT with 64Gb).
It is not clear for now from where the exact problem comes, but is other threads people found that disabling 802.11n band makes Wi-Fi more stable.
I've locked my surface to 802.11 b/g mode and got no "limited" connection for 12 hours.
To lock Surface to 802.11 b/g band you can use 'Regedit'.
Open Desktop -> Search -> regedit
Open regedit. Select menu Edit -> Find...
Enter "AutoUse40Mhz" -> do search.
There are 2 such entries in registry. We need to change one, located under "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\" branch.
Set "AutoUse40Mhz" to "0" (it has value "1" by default)
Set "Band" to "4" (it has value "6" by default)
Reboot and Surface will connect using 802.11 b/g band.

This is a workaround not a solution. By doing this you restrict the speed of your whole network to 54 Mb/s split between your wireless devices, ok until you have multiple devices and streaming / data sharing on your internal network.
I have similar problems. Sorry but a workaround that impacts on performance is not a solution.
Wish i'd purchased a pro!
deepcorex said:
Listen guys...
Solution is here (shortened to save space)
Reboot and Surface will connect using 802.11 b/g band.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

rosebud said:
This is a workaround not a solution. By doing this you restrict the speed of your whole network to 54 Mb/s split between your wireless devices, ok until you have multiple devices and streaming / data sharing on your internal network.
I have similar problems. Sorry but a workaround that impacts on performance is not a solution.
Wish i'd purchased a pro!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That hack locks the surface to b/g, not the router. The router will carry on interacting with other N devices fine.
You lock the surface to 54Mb/s, plenty for streaming local media between a local network and I doubt many people have internet speeds that high anyway for online stuff (even less who will care that they now get a mere 54mb/s).
The routers speed limit will remain unaltered, windows has no control over that.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
That hack locks the surface to b/g, not the router. The router will carry on interacting with other N devices fine.
You lock the surface to 54Mb/s, plenty for streaming local media between a local network and I doubt many people have internet speeds that high anyway for online stuff (even less who will care that they now get a mere 54mb/s).
The routers speed limit will remain unaltered, windows has no control over that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
depends on whether your router has 1 or 2 radio chips.
your wireless network is only as good as your slowest connected device