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1080p smartphones and 60fps plausibility?

I dont see a lot of chatter about 60fps recording on the latest batch of 720/1080p recording smart phones.. Is it even possible or just a matter of hardware limitations? Im just curious if we could see a future hack enabling 60fps or do we wait for manufacturers to offer it. thanks!

That would be SICK... But I don't think it'd be possible due to the size of the camera sensor in most mobile phones.

i just know that the HTC Bass (Runnymede) will be able to do 720p recording at 60fps.
afaik, there are no known phones that can do [email protected] currently.

socalwrx said:
I dont see a lot of chatter about 60fps recording on the latest batch of 720/1080p recording smart phones.. Is it even possible or just a matter of hardware limitations? Im just curious if we could see a future hack enabling 60fps or do we wait for manufacturers to offer it. thanks!
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Sounds like James Cameron's dream phone, to me. Cameron is pushing for the movie industry to adopt a minimum 60fp/s for movies.

is 60fps the limit? cant it go any higher?

Really isn't much benefit in going higher except for Video/Sports analysis, TBH. For just watching stuff, 60 FPS is good enough.

I understand that for general recording/watching 30fps is plenty. 24fps even.. Id just be interested for some cool slo-mo effects. even if it were capped at a short time due to the size of the file. Im just wondering if its hardware limitations (video encoding of the chipset, size of the sensor as previously mentioned) or just a matter of software tweaking; forcing the phone to record/encode @ 60fps.
I had an older LG phone that had a slo-mo effect that looked cool but quality took a big hit.

socalwrx said:
I understand that for general recording/watching 30fps is plenty. 24fps even.. Id just be interested for some cool slo-mo effects. even if it were capped at a short time due to the size of the file. Im just wondering if its hardware limitations (video encoding of the chipset, size of the sensor as previously mentioned) or just a matter of software tweaking; forcing the phone to record/encode @ 60fps.
I had an older LG phone that had a slo-mo effect that looked cool but quality took a big hit.
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agree
even if games / videos were made to run 60 fps, it's a waste of power
there's no point pushing more than 30 frames when human eyes can barely keep up with less than that

AllGamer said:
agree
even if games / videos were made to run 60 fps, it's a waste of power
there's no point pushing more than 30 frames when human eyes can barely keep up with less than that
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Don't agree at all. The difference is big and is easily proven. Seems to be some kind of urban legend that eyes cannot perceive faster movement than around 24-30fps
Check for example these example videos (using a modern browser on a modern PC).
http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html

tjtj4444 said:
Don't agree at all. The difference is big and is easily proven. Seems to be some kind of urban legend that eyes cannot perceive faster movement than around 24-30fps
Check for example these example videos (using a modern browser on a modern PC).
http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html
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This is an age old debate and is far more complex than that one example can cover. For video playback where you can't resolve individual frames though, 30 fps is more than enough.
Yes, we all like to see those beautiful bullet time type videos shot with fast cameras, but there are limitations other than processing power. In this case it's optical. The faster you shoot, the better lit the scene needs to be and the better the light gathering ability of the optics. Perfectly easy to overcome when you're lighting the scene and using proper hardware. Not so good when you're using a phone to do the shooting though!

I don't see the point of 1080p/60fps until they can do 1080p/30fps properly
Also better optics before moving onto anything else

DirkGently1 said:
This is an age old debate and is far more complex than that one example can cover. For video playback where you can't resolve individual frames though, 30 fps is more than enough.
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Sorry but I don't agree at all, and your post doesn't include one single argument for you statement so it doesn't make any change.
30 fps looks ok, but 60fps video looks more fluid. It is very obvious in fast moving videos, e g sports.
I know that movies are made for 24fps and have "motion blur" to remove the problems with low frame rate, and some people prefere this motion blur (i e movie captured with small aperture) but that is a matter of taste and doesn't change what looks more fluid or not.

HTC Vivid [email protected] http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_vivid-4302.php

That all depends on the GPU. Maybe the powervr sgx 543 can, seems the most plausible of all the GPUs available.

So those can shoot @60fps:
-LG G2
-Note 3
-HTC One (720p only)
Does anybody know more devices?
Maybe Nexus 5 after some camera hack...? I would buy if it had 1080p60

Samsung Galaxy S4 and S5 can record 60fps video as well

[KERNEL] Tweaking the camera driver ( 60FPS related ) Kernel developers needed

First of all, The CMOS Support up to 60FPS 1080P and 720P.
The second thing, the DPS seem stronger, than most smartphones, doing more than 40mbps withouth frame dropping thats a loot of power
and the DPS play fluid 1080P videos at 60FPS and 720P ( in hardware mode ), so there is a chance to do the same with recording.
IM NOT SURE IF THE ENCODERS ARE CONFIGURED FOR 60FPS, but the kernel is limited to 30FPS so can try to delete this limitation, and test then see what happens with that famous 60FPS.
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Okay, i assume, no one seems interested on this, yea! overclock, loot of roms, Cyanogen...etc ...etc but, what happens with the camera? is a good point to develop!!
maybe isnt a big deal but i think this can be improved a loot more, not only on the sensation, also on other smartphones.
Not only due less compression, can say the photos have a hard postprocess like the Optimus 3D, and is a bit weird the photos looks bad, iphone 4 photos looks much better, and its for REAL i have photos to compare and hell.. huge diference.
In part i think is because the photos looks oversharped and maybe the encoding format isnt the best, and because that, the picture, have less details.
Im trying to OUT a RAW picture format, is the best to apreciate the 100% of the CMOS power.
Now the important thing the DRIVER.
Actually im studying the driver carefully, for now only higher FPS to test if i can get the famous 60FPS at 720P or maybe with a bit of lucky at 1080P ( sounds like a joke this last haha )
Im not sure if there are any other thing to care, maybe in HEX.
Code:
#define S5K3H1GX_MAX_FPS 30 [COLOR="Red"]set TO 120FPS[/COLOR]
#define S5K3H1GX_MAX_FPS_PARALLEL 30 [COLOR="red"]set TO 120FPS[/COLOR]
I need some help from more advanced developers, please give me a hand with this i cant compile yet the kernel correcly so if someone can do this for me, thanks, me and a loot of people will apreciate this.
I ADDED THE KERNEL DRIVER with the first modification.
I do not have much time right now, but im gonna do my best, and finish that damn mod, hell!! haha
And again, like ever excuse my bad english, and no, no google traducer, i want to learn it myself without help of that **** called google traducer haha.
Thanks in advance, because together we can do better!

( reserved space for next step if can finallize the first one )

try this kernel:
http://www.multiupload.com/VYN9NZ76Q0

This kernel is compatible with all the roms? just the camera driver?
Im on Revolution HD.
Or you just patched the driver and compile?
Mdeejay what do you think about this? thanks this is a good start i think.
PD: This also need APK modifications right?

60FPS would be fantastic

Yea, now im on school, when im at home im gonna mod the cameraa to accept the 60fps and then, see what happens

I've said it in another thread and I will say it once here.
I hope somebody proves me wrong.
I think the most problems you're going to get are with the lens and the sensor, not the DSP or media engine or something else.
Compared to even a simple compact digital camera we have a very slow lens and aa crappy tiny sensor. You might reach 40fps, but anything close to 60fps will only result in an almost black movie, or to dark to see anything.
May I advise to first try to force the camera in taking a single picture with a shutterspeed of 15ms and ISO800? Just to see how the image would look at 60fps, and hopefully prove me wrong?
And as far as encoding goes, higher bitrates don't make it really harder for a DSP or hardware encoder. All the calculating comes from analyzing the picture with a certain sset of H264 features. Things like framerate, width & height and the amount of motion in a movie depends how hard the DSP needs to work. Bitrates only matters in the amount of data the phone can process (SD card write speed, bus speed on the DSP, etc...).
Good luck !

dipje said:
I've said it in another thread and I will say it once here.
I hope somebody proves me wrong.
I think the most problems you're going to get are with the lens and the sensor, not the DSP or media engine or something else.
Compared to even a simple compact digital camera we have a very slow lens and aa crappy tiny sensor. You might reach 40fps, but anything close to 60fps will only result in an almost black movie, or to dark to see anything.
May I advise to first try to force the camera in taking a single picture with a shutterspeed of 15ms and ISO800? Just to see how the image would look at 60fps, and hopefully prove me wrong?
And as far as encoding goes, higher bitrates don't make it really harder for a DSP or hardware encoder. All the calculating comes from analyzing the picture with a certain sset of H264 features. Things like framerate, width & height and the amount of motion in a movie depends how hard the DSP needs to work. Bitrates only matters in the amount of data the phone can process (SD card write speed, bus speed on the DSP, etc...).
Good luck !
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Very explicit! thanks now my answer haha
Thats the fact, but really, you will never see the true potential of CMOS on smartphones, because they're limited the 100% of it's power...
Sometimes just because they want to sell you another device with the same camera, but with more features enabled, market strategy, they sell to you the same with higher price ( HTC Sensation XE maybe? Wildfire S? )
Actually the Optimus 3D shoots fast photos than before.
you actually, can shoot a photo on movement and you can see all the details, just modifying the exposure time and shutter speed.
You have seen a RAW photo from nokia n900 5MP?? Amazing just that, better don't watch a raw from a N8, that's just ****ing amazing, better than most bridge cameras, and close to the economic reflex.
About that fact of FPS, higher resolution = more shutter time needed, and more processing power.
I said this before, this Camera supports up to 60FPS at 1080P, so in theory is capable, why cant be this true?
There are digital cameras with phone sensors, actually recording at 1080P 60FPS and doesn't have to much better lens.
If youre right, okay, good but can try it out and see what happens, and then, well at least you try it, and youre sure about its impossible..
if you don't try it, you never know, and you ever feel wrong about it.

One thousand views... no more answers...
Give it a try,

|ErosizeD| said:
One thousand views... no more answers...
Give it a try,
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i talked to show-p1984 (bricked kernel), he managed to get rid of the fps limit some time ago for testing purposes, but only result was crashing camera app, so you may talk to him
(for example in the IRC channel written in my sig)

hlenforcer said:
i talked to show-p1984 (bricked kernel), he managed to get rid of the fps limit some time ago for testing purposes, but only result was crashing camera app, so you may talk to him
(for example in the IRC channel written in my sig)
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how to use an IRC? really i never use it
I think im gonna talk to him, and see what she discovered.

|ErosizeD| said:
how to use an IRC? really i never use it
I think im gonna talk to him, and see what she discovered.
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if you only want to make a short conversation, the webchat aplet of the irc network should be enough: http://webchat.freenode.net/
our channel is named: #Sensation-Devs
if you need it more than once i recommend an IRC client software like mirc for windows or even better: xchat for linux/windows
irc server: irc.freenode.net

Is there any progress on this really cool idea???
I would like to have may camera working with 60fps at 1080p
Devs, could anybody help this guy? Unfortunately I'm not able to help him, because I don't know anything about compiling etc. - I'm just a simple user
Best regards, and - I believe in YOU (all)
cool400

u should talk to persiansown..he has a real knack for kernels and extra mods with them...made great kernels for the nexus with tons of extra features

Hi!
RAW format should be awesome!
Thanks to your kernel mod

@erosize: I see 120fps camera (kernel only) notes in the latest AndroidHD 3.6.2/4.1.2 changelog.
I'm curious, does that mean there is any progress?
Regarding my posts about the sensation sensor being too small and the lens aperture being too high, look the specs for the iPhone 4s, they addressed those points specifically

did anyone try iPhone 4 camera ?? it's so cleaaaar

-juanito- said:
did anyone try iPhone 4 camera ?? it's so cleaaaar
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yea, super clear.... much more than sensation and other smartphones, with only 5MP...
and is because this android phones have weird RAW to JPG comversion...
ANd yes, there is finally a kernel with the 120FPS uncap limitation, thanks seems he listen to me!
Now need to work deeper in to the APK and system.

I think the next thing that needs to be done is to test the new "uncapped" kernel against an aosp camera since it's source is available, so we can get an idea of what we need to reverse engineer in the sense camera... my 2sentz

any new progress? i really like the idea to test this ...

720p Displays - 'Cool Factor' or a practical improvement?

I’m going to be buying a new phone soon. I’ve been eyeing up the Galaxy S II but I thought I might as well wait and see what is announced this month. One thing that all top end rumoured phones have in common is a 720p display. I have to admit this alone has tempted me to wait. But then I got to thinking, aside from the ‘cool’ factor. What benefit in the real world will a 720p display bring us?
The two main advantages that I can see are improved PPI and the obvious advantage when playing 720p videos. But a higher PPI means more processing power, which in turn means lower battery life. Also from an admittedly purely lazy point of view it means having to zoom in further to be able to read text.
A 720p display will now mean that 480p videos on youtube and the like will be upscaled and won’t look as good. ‘Just choose the 720p option’ you say. Fine, so long as you’re on wifi. Until 4G hits and is widespread (which in the UK is going to take a while) it will mean longer waits and buffer issues.
Yes I’m nit picking but I’d genuinely like to hear your thoughts on the pros and cons of a 720p display. I know there will be many more I’ve missed.

i see it from 2 sides....
720p = really nice picture quality
720p bad for some apps/games, which might no longer run properly, unless fixed, or some how the hardware can auto adjust the resolution to stretch it to fit.
720p can be a bit of a pain, if some Apps/Games developer decide to use too small of a touch area, due the larger dot-pix available in the 720p area
that also means DVD quality or lower quality videos played on the 720p will look like blurry or smeared, that can be fixed with software/hardware correction, like games.

^^ All that.
Plus, I don't really see the need for a 720 screen that's around the 4" size. Do you really need pixels that small? They'll be smaller than photons if we carry on like this and then it'll be reality that'll have to catch up with our tech
Personally, I wouldn't hold back for purely that one feature, but who knows what else is round the corner. Get a phone and let it be the best for a few months and then slowly drop down the list. As everyone always says, there's always something better coming, and if you waited then you'd never get anything.
Incidentally, I do have the SGS2, and it is REALLY nice

well definitely 1080p will be around the corner as we already stepped into the 720p kingdom
so 1080p on a 4" display would not be a long wait, but it will really make you think, what's the point of cramming so much in such a little screen
i can see 1080p to be a normal thin on a 10" tablet, but on a phone... that's a bit much
i do hope they don't go beyond 720p on any screen smaller than 5"
imagine running Windows Vista/7 on 15" wide LCD at 1080 (there are many laptops that are actually like that) it's soooooo eye strain-ful, it literally kills the eyes
i always down set the resolution back to something more readable to not strain my eyes

AllGamer said:
i always down set the resolution back to something more readable to not strain my eyes
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Do you need your reading glasses as well, so you can find your pipe and slippers?

i don't wear glasses, and i intent to keep it that way, reason why i prefer an easy reading, on 480 vs 720
on 720 i'll have to probably the the font size twice as big, to make it easily legible when you are in the car, bus/subway, or walking
no i don't get dizzy reading while doing any of the above
many people can't read if they are in a moving vehicle
probably due the same relevant issue about having to scan the text in a small device and straining your vision, while trying to keep an eye on the road and not crashing

AllGamer said:
i don't wear glasses, and i intent to keep it that way, reason why i prefer an easy reading, on 480 vs 720
on 720 i'll have to probably the the font size twice as big, to make it easily legible when you are in the car, bus/subway, or walking
no i don't get dizzy reading while doing any of the above
many people can't read if they are in a moving vehicle
probably due the same relevant issue about having to scan the text in a small device and straining your vision, while trying to keep an eye on the road and not crashing
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I agree with you, therebisbreally no reason to go above 720p resolution on small smartphone devices. I myself notice my eyes begin to hurt after more than thirty minutes or so of heavy reading on my Sensation. Now I know my Sensation does not have 720p but I am just saying the size of the screen and the text on that screen is no doubt a strain on the human eye after extended reading done on the device. 1080p is definitely so,ethimg that should just make it to the larger tablets and not smartphones.
Oh and yes actually paying attention to the road while you are driving is a highly recommended activity lol.

AllGamer said:
that also means DVD quality or lower quality videos played on the 720p will look like blurry or smeared, that can be fixed with software/hardware correction, like games.
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This is just plain wrong, low resolution video will look just as good on 720p displays.
Sent from my GT-I9100

Maybe i miss-understood your question, but i am using the Galaxy SII
I never had any screen / resolution issues

Well,first off,let's not forget that Android supports changing the DPI in build.prop(I think-haven't bothered in a while).I don't think manufacturers will leave 220-240 dpi of the current devices on 720p devices,but they would rather pump it up,so that everything stays the same size,but is just crisper.That's just my thought though.
On another note,lower resolution videos won't look worse at all.Resolution in that aspect is irrelevant.The same way that you can play a 720p video on a 480p screen without problems,you can do the opposite just as well.Unless some manufacturer decides to f*ck it up with upscaling tricks and stuff that will defo make the image blurry and ugly.
The only really valid argument on the topic,in my opinion,is the possible lack of processing power,especially when it comes to GPUs.We even saw the Mali MP-400,the most powerful GPU on a PHONE (DON'T SAY ABOUT THE A5 IN THE iPAD!!!!) to date,struggle to keep up in the case of the Galaxy Note's resolution.If the next gen of SoCs doesn't improve quite a lot in that aspect,we'll see some performance drops for sure.Not to mention the worst thing,the losses of battery life in case that extra power is met.Not that I mind about battery life as long as it makes it through the day,but many many people do.

Do any of you guys know the p in 720p stands for?
It has nothing to do with resolution, which is what you are all trying to talk about.

Papi4baby said:
Do any of you guys know the p in 720p stands for?
It has nothing to do with resolution, which is what you are all trying to talk about.
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progressive, opposed to the i of interlaced.
Technically 720i use half the vertical pixels for each frame.

Papi4baby said:
Do any of you guys know the p in 720p stands for?
It has nothing to do with resolution, which is what you are all trying to talk about.
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Yes man,we know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/720p

sgs 2
sent from my cappy. xda app

HD rules

720p slow motion

Hey everyone, hope you're all having a great weekend
Recently I've been tinkering with my One X and have realized that it is extremely capable of recording videos in slow motion at 720p as opposed to 480p. I know this may sound like a question but it is also developer related hence being placed here. Now, my question to our awesome Devs is, can you enable the One X to record at 720p at slow motion? Same frame rate as the current slow motion but just higher resolution, now that it's been out for two years it shouId be possible. And don't worry about the power demands, I may have just found a way to utilize the Tegra 3's full potential! I'll let you know if it works, thank you

Elemental_Fire said:
And don't worry about the power demands, I may have just found a way to utilize the Tegra 3's full potential! I'll let you know if it works, thank you
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How's that?

aleksandar.1 said:
How's that?
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Lock all four cores to ON, and disable the companion core. The GPU at 400-520mhz helps too. It is especially noticeable in YouTube videos, you may notice there is a delay and slight lag normally, the above settings will make the whole device buttery smooth. During Slow motion video recording force all four cores on, and temporarily set the cpu to 1.4ghz, the smoothness is shocking. I honestly believe the phone is capable of 720p slow motion

Slow Motion

Hi there,
Is there a way to change setting time (video slow motion) which is 1,8 seconds, can we do it with APK editor or it takes advanced mode, eventually a developer to do it?
Has anyone ever tried to do it ?
Thank you for your answers.

It's 1/8s, not 1,8. It's next to impossible to tweak it by yourself. And it's probably coming with the update, playing it for 3 seconds in fHD rather than 6 seconds in HD
But who knows if they will update
Leave the request on Sony support website

The recording time for super slow motion is limited by the hardware's capabilities to the 1/8s.

Yup, it's limited by the RAM buffer in the camera. As far as I can tell, we could extend the duration by lowering the resolution down from 720p, but that would look awful, even 720p doesn't produce great results unless there's tons of light. Just as the new XZ2 lineup will have 1080p slowmo but with even shorter duration, because it has the same RAM buffer amount (with the option to go with 720p, though). What I'd rather like is to have the ability to lower the framerate down from 960FPS, that way we could also make longer slowmo videos, for example if we could do ~400FPS, that's still more than enough for a cool shot and would be able to extend the duration. 960FPS is really cool, but not necessary for capturing some cool stuff. It always bugged me that they fixed the slowmo framerate to 960FPS, I'm sure it's possible to make it adjustable via software. What framerate do iPhones shoot slowmo at? 250-ish? And you can make them as long as you like, right?

Hello, may it possible to make 960 fps at 1080p ? It will be great!

Not on XZ lineup, at least for now, we might get that feature after the XZ2 release.
But anyways, why would that be great?
Switching to 1080p super slowmo makes the slowmo capture time even shorter, it is already nearly impossible at 720p to capture the right moment you want in slowmo, 1080p makes it evene shorter and harder. I'd rather have lower framerate and longer duration of the superslowmo than higher resolution. I just contacted sony support about this possible feature, still waiting for the answer. It's stupid to have a hardware capable of recording at 960FPS and not being able to lower that framerate in order to extend the duration of the shot. It's a software limitation and an oversight, nothing more, the hardware is there. It's like Sony saying, "Hey, here's one of the coolest features we ever implemented in a phone. But good luck actually using it because it's damn near impossible to do so. But it's there. Please buy our phones. Cheers." The RAM buffer and the sensor in the XZ2 will allegedly be the same as on XZ1 and Premium. If they can get 1080p super slowmo on it, it's a software modification. And if they can do that, they can also give us the option to switch the framerate. But they don't because higher specs sell better. It's all good on paper, but sucks in practical use.