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Large post: full letter can be found: http://austechreview.zoomshare.com/files/Open_Letter/An_Open_Letter_WM.htm
AN OPEN LETTER:
TO the individuals working in the Microsoft Windows Mobile division, to the hardware vendors for the platform, to the many Windows Mobile communities, to the avid enthusiasts of the technology, to the new-comers, to the onlookers and especially to those frustrated users of old and new alike.
I address this discussion to you all, as diverse and wide ranging audience for we all share a common trend in our lives, which, regardless of the corner we examine, be it: our work environments; our social interactions; or simply our personal lives, we find ourselves using (or looking to use) what perhaps best represents the apex in the convergent technologies trend - the Windows Mobile device.
We are speaking of a device whose form today can take on the properties of a phone, a portable music player, a mobile media centre, a camera, a camcorder, a webcam, a high speed modem, a GPS navigation unit, a portable gaming device, a radio, a mobile CRM, web-browser, email client, information management center and as a mobile office. I don’t doubt more could probably be added to that list, but those are just some of the features these devices are largely capable of and all of this functionality rests right there populating our pockets, belts or briefcases.
Despite this unprecedented functionality in convergence and the leaps ahead these devices have made in quite recent times, the changes have been largely hardware driven and when they have been software driven it has largely been by third parties or by hardware manufactures doing the platform vendors job. It seems these changes have not gone unnoticed, consciousness in the community, due to years of the same pattern - in contrast with the events of this year - have finally began to demand answers to the why’s and where’s of the Windows Mobile platform. It is time for a discussion on the issues with this platform and where it’s heading [CSM forum discussion]. With that in mind let’s ask ourselves some whys:
Why is it 2007 and only now with the consumer rollout of Windows Mobile 6 this year (the later part for most of it) are we only now - after all these years - finally seeing support for VGA resolutions in Windows Mobile? It’s not like the technology to support it hasn’t existed, 3rd party workarounds are a plenty, but they are often tedious and have results which require the user to make compromises often combined with GUI deficiencies.Why is it that this is now supported in WM6, yet my HTC advantage with WM6 still requires me to load this 3rd party software? Is Microsoft not giving you the code to activate the resolution options HTC? Or Microsoft do you not feel it prudent to work with HTC to encourage them to adopt such a simple capacity as letting us use VGA on our VGA devices?
Why has it taken so many years to do something with the X button, despite an array of 3rd party applications demonstrating the productivity and ease of use gains from enabling options with this part of the software?Why have manufactuers like HTC had to release their own X button software? Why, have roll-out and constant updates been such a prevalent facet of Windows for PCs, yet you feel no need to roll-out updates for your WM line, contrary to the capacity of the platform to support it?
Why after all these years of Windows Mobile, are syncing issues still so prevalent?
Why, despite the obvious adoption of WiFi technology and its virtual inclusion in all WM devices can we still not Sync over WiFi? Did HTC not inform Microsoft that they had put WiFi onto virtually all of their Windows Mobile devices these days? I ask because from the hoops you often have to jump through to get wireless networking connection in WM one might wonder.Why, has it taken HTC and O2 to give limited users a Media Centre application despite the popularity of Media Centre software on PCs and in the home, and despite the capacity of these devices being capable of viewing, pictures, video, music, radio and more recently TV?
Why have hardware vendors had to produce this software?
Call it a crazy division of labour thing, but shouldn’t hardware vendors in this case be sticking to well, hardware?Why has Microsoft not worked with them then to release better versions of the software or encourage them to release such software to the wider community? Media integration of this kind has been such a Grand strategy across the rest of the Microsoft divisions, did the WM division not get invited to the meetings for this strategy?
Just because these devices are largely aimed at professionals doesn’t mean this functionality cannot be built on. Yes I largely use this device, like most, for its superior information management and touch screen functionalities. But that doesn’t mean I don’t want to enjoy or use its other capabilities. Why after so many years of this platform being around, after so many operators adopting its hardware and after the recent popular release of devices like the Touch or last year the HTC TyTN series, why after all this do so few people still know about the capabilities of Windows Mobile devices?
Is this a problem limited to Australia? Apparently, it might be. You’re advertising on behalf of the hardware vendors in India, which makes sense having the second largest market, but while your off advertising in India, the IPhone is advertising (if it even has to) across the rest of the Western World!
It never ceases to amaze me how few people know about these devices, even people in IT, if they do know about them they are largely unaware of there capacities, and secondarily associate them with all the bugs and problems of Windows.
This lack of awareness is largely a marketing and promotions issue, but heres the kicker it’s a two party problem. If the hardware vendors and Microsoft haven’t noticed you’re futures are tied together. It’s in both of your interests to promote these devices. Microsoft you especially, because there are multiple hardware vendors but only one software vendor in this game, and the devices are by name Windows Mobile devices, which people will aptly associate with……Microsoft.People have a million and one choices of mobile devices in the market, and more contemporarily a wider choice of touch based technology devices. People aren’t going to magically seek out the Windows Mobile products, especially with their price tag, if they aren’t aware of it, and further aren’t educated on its features.
Why Why, did you allow the iPhone to gain such a hype and pre-eminent status? Hardware vendors and Microsoft, your devices have been largely capable of everything the iPhone can do, sans multi-touch, and much much more as we have discussed. They have had this capacity for years, why did you allow the IPhone to capture the mass market like this?
The answer most likely lies in the marketing as we have already discussed, but surely by now you’re picking up on my pattern here. That being, both the hardware and software vendors need to work with each other to promote these devices, enhance its functionality and use of the convergent technology.
It’s a two way street too hardware vendors you need to encourage Microsoft, you both should be listening to users; hardware vendors chances are your hearing the gripes with WM more than Microsoft, are you communicating it back to them and encouraging these changes?Why after so many years of Windows Mobile do I still have to install or buy 3rd party software to get half-descent time-management functionality out of these devices? Why are the tasks and calendar options barely more customisable or expanded then they were in Windows 2002 or earlier?
Why after so many years of Windows Mobile do I still virtually have the same basic interface? Why despite all this hardware power and the fact that we are using touch-screens do I have an interface that has remained virtually unchanged for all these years?
I know these are aimed at enterprise users (hi) but do we not deserve a nicer interface? The interface isn’t even all about aesthetics; it’s also about productivity, look at how much more the devices can be enhanced through 3rd party software like Wisbar desktop etc.
Are there plans to change this? Or will I have to buy a “Zune phone” to get some nicer interfaces? Why did it magically take for the iPhone to come out before we finally got some hardware (and software from the hardware vendor no less) that actually takes advantage of the fact that we are using touch-screen devices – referring to the HTC Touch of course.
Why isn’t there more collaboration between Microsoft and even 3rd party software vendors?
One of the greatest benefits this platform has over the iPhone and over symbion is the range of software. Why isn’t this more widely, promoted and encouraged? This isn’t perhaps so much a serious question that needs answering, since there are many community based sites that review and promote WM software but it’s a key and crucial benefit of the Windows Mobile platform and one that needs to be more readily promoted, advertised and enhanced.I, like most fellow Windows Mobile users, have either enjoyed using my Windows Mobile device or had to use it because there was no alternative – most likely a mix. And the Why’s I have asked today are not likely to dissuade me or anyone else from buying a Windows Mobile device and I have no illusions that there are many more whys people would like answered.
The point has been to briefly illustrate the mediocrity and failings both Microsoft and its hardware vendors have settled for with this platform combined with a reiteration of the many benefits and possibilities of the platform as one of the pinnacles of convergent technology.
Furthermore as should be apparent now, encourage a closer and more importantly, public, strategic collaboration between the hardware vendors and Microsoft. Both of your futures are tied to this platform, it’s a robust hardware device with many software features and a tonne of uses, but these must be enhanced, visually and functionally.
Secondly the platform must be promoted. You have a technologically advanced and highly convergent device rivalled by no other platform. The devices despite being geared for enterprise have many features consumer users could gain from them, particularly since the cost of many of the devices has become comparably affordable (aka HTC Touch). Its time consumers were made aware from joint marketing between the hardware and software vendor.
The IPhone has done a good job (as was expected from the hype and the eye candy interface) of capturing the consumer market. Now despite a consensus that the IPhone isn’t ready for business use, don’t be naïve enough to think this will always be the case. I don’t want to give Apple any ideas, but it strikes me if they were to buy up Pocket Breeze or Agenda Fusion etc and adapt it to the IPhone platform, maybe add some functional word, excel and pdf viewing capabilities, and correct some limited (and quite fixable issues) with the interface, you would surely have a sleek stylish well known business rival to the Windows Mobile platform.
Apple has the easy job here, it’s the only face behind the iPhone, its not HTC producing a device and then powered by Windows, its just apple and its iPhone; it doesn’t have to worry about collaborating with a partner, only telecommunication carriers that are dying to supply the device to consumers.
It stands to reason that if Windows Mobile can do this and more, and without the restrictions of the iphone, it should be the HTC Touch et al, that carriers are dying to sell to consumers, yet its not is it?
More dangerously, as mentioned, the transformation to a business capable device is a lot easier than the task of making a business device (despite its many consumer features) appeal to the mass market, especially after Apple has stolen the thunder to appear like the pre-eminent technological device.
I hope this generates some discussion amidst the Windows Mobile users and perhaps even between the hardware vendors and Microsoft, who should together be hatching out a strategic direction for these devices and who perhaps would see fit to work more closely with the communities who use their devices, so that some of the basic issues mentioned at the start, aren’t taking years to respond to.
Regards,
Osiris.
This is a serious question although I appreciate it could be taken as a troll.
Should Microsoft start again with their mobile OS? I know why they have kept compatability with older software but I personally think this is hurting them more than throwing away backwards compatability.
Look at the iPhone - that started from scratch and has grown to prominence without any back catalog of software.
Cheers, Rob.
Looks like its beginning to reach game-over stauts for M$ IMO. It feels like it did when Palm went down. Sorry to say, but I'm beginning my investigation into Android.
Exchange Server
Hi all
I use an exchange server provider and I find it's features really useful, not just on my mobile, but in MS Outlook 2007, in fact much more so on the PC. Because there are few equivalent services that I can get for the same price that would be compatible with both PC software and a mobile device, I am essentially tied to Microsoft products for the time being. MS have done very well at preventing 3rd party PIM clients accessing the full services of an exchange server.
Google are in the process of offering a full exchange service via Google Sync. If they are successful in this (which they clearly will be) then they are really only one step away from offering their own exchange type server which will be natively compatible with?? Android of course.
I would consider switching from WM to another OS if:
1. That OS could access the full services based on an MS Exchange server.
OR
2. There were comparable alternatives to a remote MS Exchange server system which could be accessed from the device.
In fact, Windows Mobile 6.5 can't access all the features of an Exchange server (e.g. being able to set specific Follow up reminder dates & times for emails and viewing other users calendars, etc.). So actually, an alternative system doesn't need to beat MS Outlook, it just needs to beat the feature limited WM 6.5 Pocket Outlook.
Sorry for the ramble but I can't see many large companies switching to Android if their employees can't accept a meeting request OTA!
In answer to the original question, yes, MS REALLY should start again with Windows Mobile and this time make sure users are able to access all the features of an MS exchange server OTA.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking
From what I've read on the developers Blogs the WM7 framework is entirely different to 6x.. so most of them are concentrating on this.. appararently the performance is at least doubled (this wasn't an MS fanboy). I do assume though that MS will do all they can to be backwards compatible .. the howl that happened on Palm will be nothing as to the reaction should MS completely leave their userbase high & dry. Yes Apple scored well by timing their entry into the market perfectly.. but they risk being trapped in exactly the same way by advances in technology.
I don't think it's game over in any direction just yet.. MS simply dosn't give up and there is absolutely nothing similar in the way Palm ran itself into the ground.. Obviuosly the media is a huge cheerleasder for both Google & Apple - for some reason believing these guys are in some way cool, uncommerical, funloving dudes who are only interested in the love..
look guys, some years passed by, and ONLY thing m$ wants to say to us is:
let's make smartphones, AGAIN.
pda's as mobile comps are DEAD.
f your 6.5 and rich kids.
f android and their feeble ****oozas.
xoen / nothin
Sleuth255 said:
Looks like its beginning to reach game-over stauts for M$ IMO. It feels like it did when Palm went down. Sorry to say, but I'm beginning my investigation into Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
omg, sleuth is going over to the dark side
btw, which droid model are you looking at?
Personally, i love WM
I agree with Andrew-in-woking. I love the ability to sync my contacts, notes, calender, music, photos, videos, and documents both ways with my computer and my phone. And, the thing I've been telling everyone is that devices supported by a company will work best with other devices supported by the same company. I've been using windows on all of my computers since I can remember, and I will only have the best phone experience if I get a windows powered phone, which would provide the best connectivity with my computer. It doesn't make sense to get an Iphone, unless you have an apple computer, in my eyes. Same with every other device. Get android if you have other devices powered by google os. Same with Samsung, sony, etc. If you start connecting devices across different companies, it will only lead to more problems, reducing the quality of your experience with that device. Those are my 2 cents.
funny how everybody is complain about windows mobile compares to iphone.
y havnt nobody complaining about crackberry to iphone?
not everybody buy a windows mobile phone and use it as a toy (iphone)
i love my Acer neotouch S200 with 1G cpu with custom 6.5 rom 23506, i'm not sure if i still want an android phone. oh, the only reason i want android phone is because of google gps navigator.
I like windows mobile the way it is, when it become's like an iphone, there is no point in using it anymore.
I'm not saying anything can't be improved, just that if it interface's like an iphone, you might as well buy an iphone which is what I suspect most people are talking about when comparing them.
Say goodbye to the usefulness of your high resolution screen's while using a child and finger friendly interface....massive icon's, text, menu's, spend half your time zooming in and out...panning etc.
andrew-in-woking said:
That OS could access the full services based on an MS Exchange server.
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Click to collapse
Isn't this becoming a non-problem with better browsers? Outlook web access is now a very feature rich JavaScript based client - won't that run from anywhere?
Cheers, Rob.
I'm using Microsoft OS for about 15-20 years. First DOS, later Windows, and in the meanwhile also WM.
I don't need to sync anything between PC and phone but I want a "full" OS, you can customize whatever you want, and I love my Win32 API. On the IPhone and Android you don't even have a file explorer without downloading an extra app right? Yes I know "you can get an App for everything." And sure IPhone is comfortable and user friendly. But it's like that because it's a consumer device and being that it's probably better than WM. But actually WM is not only a toy (for people who don't feel comfortable with the more tech stuff) - it's an OS.
I don't really understand all the bad talking about WM recently. I agree using the GUI without a stylus is a pain in the ass but as I can see more and more parts of the OS are being updated with each new 6.5 build. And what's the deal about it.... it's only the f.... GUI!!!
Microsoft won't restart at all. Their OS will go and and on just like their desktop versions did. Remember all the talking back then. OS/2 kills Windows, MAC kills Windows.... IMO nothing of that happened at all.
MS over?
Don't believe the hype Sleuth.
HTC on windows rules.
Good to see you here.
Really appreciated your uc work on my HD.
New rom from Miri, uc'ed all my settings & apps.
Hours of fun.
100,000 apps for the iPhone in it's short life. 18,000 in all of WinMo's existence. 50K on Android already. M$ had a major chance when it buried Palm but it took the iPhone to bring real innovation back. Geezuz.
WinMo market share was cut in half in the last year. M$ is no longer considered a contender in the space dominated by iPhone, RIM, Nokia and now Android.
I too like the common api. But I've seen iPhone apps that blow my socks off. Hopefully, HTC will release a killer platform for android. I need capacitive, rez and battery life.
Moto Droid is the leader here now but it can't touch HTC keyboards. Lots of room for HTC to catch up. But android 2.0 on that very same droid can turn off bt and fire up your wifi profile when you walk into the door based on its continuously updated positional awareness. Weather works the same way, using wunderground school installations from a known database to give you local weather down to the exact temp where you are standing. You can use the camera to scan a bar code in a supermarket and it'll leverage Google's claim to fame and return info/best pricing on the web for the same item.
Meanwhile, m$ can't even make a decent marketplace. They are hobbled by feature drift and don't have a security clue (see chainfire's 2hr hack just to prove the point).
I wish it were otherwise but I've seen this all before...
Phonebook
munrobasher said:
Isn't this becoming a non-problem with better browsers? Outlook web access is now a very feature rich JavaScript based client - won't that run from anywhere?
Cheers, Rob.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Rob
You make a good point for mail and tasks but it's not quite the same as dialing directly from your cnmtacts.
Cheers
andrew-in-woking
Is this actually an issue of the OS itself? It's just market strategies and modern GUI experiences. With a good kernel (like we have with WM) it's no problem to add such features on top of it (if you just actually do it), but if you have limited kernel functionality but with the "good" GUI things on top it's harder to change the OS underneath it. I have no clue about Android yet but on the IPhone you can't even run background processes. Is Android just as flexible as the Windows kernel architecture? From what I heard I assume it's not, otherwise please proove me wrong.
The problem as you can tell it is more like Microsoft didn't care a lot about WM during the last couple years and especially HTC did what MS didn't, and now they need their time to catch up on their competitors again. But of course I'm also hoping they're doing fine with WM 7. I like the road they are going with 6.5 and if WM 7 is just like the new killer OS we're all waiting for (Windows 7 desktop isn't too bad neither right?) then why do you need your Apple and Google anymore???
FTTB, I'll probably get a Tilt 2 for hardware reasons. The iPhone is too restrictive for my tweaking tastes (although being a part of the jailbreak community would be fun) and no killer hardware for Android exists yet.
m$ needs a wake-up call. The mobile world is passing it by. This time next year (when I need another new gizmo) will be interesting. My predictions go with Android because Google has the information. Gathering it is what they do. Heck, the current navigation app on Android leverages the Google maps data for for actual image based turn by turn instruction. Impressive and always up to date.
WP 7 features are leaking all over the net. Let me list them :
· WP7 will be announced at MWC, and there will be a demo, but this will be just the UX
· MIX will have specific developement focus sessions on WP7
· WP7 supports both Sliverlight (out of browser) and XNA
· Silverlight is version 3.0, with elements of 4.0 plus mobile specific features such as sensors etc
· XNA apps can be developed using XNA GameStudio 3.1
· SL apps developed using Expression Blend 3.x and VS2010
· MS will release a mobile version of VS / Expression which will be free, and VS2010 / Expression Pro will have a free add-on
· WP7 will have an equivalent of .NET CF embedded into SL, but no SQL.
· WP7 will have isolated storage which is accessible using LINQ
· The UX of WP7 is based upon a theme called “METRO” and is similar to Zune HD, but with a completely new “Start” screen.
· No multi-tasking (applications will pause when in the background, however they will support notifications using the MS Push Notifications environment)
· No .NET CF backwards compatibility, however a proportion of the data and business logic in .NET CF could be ported
· MS were confident to have devices ready for Sep 2010
· No MS manufactured device, however much tighter control of manufactring process, so as an example each device has a 3D processing chipset, and MS provide all of the device drivers. So no platform builder. This enables OTA updates and simplified model for ODM’s
· Marketplace will support buy and try before you buy, as well as an API
· ODM / OEM will not be able to modify the “Start” screen, so no more HTC Sense / TouchFlo etc.
· MS are actually ahead of schedule which will surprise the analysts / journalists
· Browsing experience is currently faster / better than iPhone 3G, and they are aiming towards 3GS.
· Browser is based upon desktop IE7 codebase, but with some IE8 functionality
· No in browser Flash or SL
· WP7 has full integration with XBOX Live, and ability to purchase games
· WP7 will use the Zune software for music, videos, photos sync
· WP7 only supports app installation through service based delivery i.e. marketplace, so no side-loading
· MS will provide a hosted push notifications environment
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
[Source]
While this might disappoint most but I for one am really happy to see that Microsoft is finally taking this seriously and has worked on WM7 from ground up!
Finally we will be able to get the User Experience comparable to iPhone/Android! Xbox Live and Zune integration sounds totally awesome!
Well this would be the media edition of the phone.... and all the OEM's will sport the 'professional' version of the phone...makes sense.
Still that won't make any Extreme Changes. The basic UI will remain the same. I feel there won't be any major differences User Interface wise between Windows Mobile 7 versions...they've already disallowed 3rd Party UI!
Im afraid your wrong . HTC have already said they will continue supporting Sense 3D on WinMo7, now they wouldnt have been able to do that if MS is going to lock down the UI.
I think/heard there will be 2 versions of the OS, the zune version which is what you see above (this will run on MS hardware, pretty much like the zune) and all the OEM's such as HTC, Toshiba, SE, etc etc will run the pro version of the OS which will similar to what we are used to...how different the OS will be in terms of GUI will be interesting to see, i sure hope that the zune version doesnt get all the goodies.
"WP7 only supports app installation through service based delivery i.e. marketplace, so no side-loading"
Does that mean we could not anymore install cab files from xda.dev ?
How far the new OS is going to be customizable is still to be seen. I think they will keep everything closed just like the iPhone and only allow limited modifications.
no multi tasking?... ... ...the point is???
If the above features are true ... Good bye WinMo7
I will go with Android (Or iPhone 4.0?) ...
^Could not wait and have already went over to the dark side...android is very cool best thing I've done!
this looks like some fanboys conspiracy
all windows mobile power (from the users point of view) that its so customizable and like micro computer
if wm7 gonna be kind of an iphone people will prefer the real iphone its perfect in its own limited way...
I can only say, if winmo drops multi-tasking, I'll drop winmo.
Gee. if people want a iPhone they'll get one.
Not everyone may be able to afford a 1ghz processor now, but the future's going to catch up before winmo7 comes out anyway.
tuksedra said:
no multi tasking?... ... ...the point is???
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Think of the pleasure to be got from watching WinMophiles having to admit to iPhonatics that WinMo is now even worse at multi-tasking than the iPhone is! (rotfl)
moooxooom said:
I can only say, if winmo drops multi-tasking, I'll drop winmo.
Gee. if people want a iPhone they'll get one.
Not everyone may be able to afford a 1ghz processor now, but the future's going to catch up before winmo7 comes out anyway.
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x2!!!
Without Multi-Tasking, HTC Sense and not be able to install whatever I want in where I want, I will never buy a new winmo pda phone again...
I'll guess I'll have to go to Android or in the worst case to iPhone
Multi-Tasking would be indeed a absolute no-go. I'm sure, that will never NOT happen.
I hope, you're also in the future allowed to install what you want where you want. I hate these Iphone restrictions. Let's hope, this will not gonna happen for WM.
I think companies are going paranoid... don't understand why many restrictions when on the desktop side u can do whatever u want... because of a majority of dumbs, that don't even know how to shutdown a computer, the rest of us have to suffer of these limitations...
No multi-tasking means I'm sticking with 6.5.3 (or whatever they call it) or going with Android.
Don't they realize that competing with Apple in Apple's arena will only get them smoked PLUS alienate their fanbase? We go to WinMo because we DON'T want iphone os. What we do want is a rebuilt, faster, better WinMo os that is just as customizable as the current os.
Seriously, if they are planning on putting out a winphone os, they are going to lose. period.
fb401 said:
No multi-tasking means I'm sticking with 6.5.3 (or whatever they call it) or going with Android.
Don't they realize that competing with Apple in Apple's arena will only get them smoked PLUS alienate their fanbase? We go to WinMo because we DON'T want iphone os. What we do want is a rebuilt, faster, better WinMo os that is just as customizable as the current os.
Seriously, if they are planning on putting out a winphone os, they are going to lose. period.
Click to expand...
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he said
Maybe they will remove the file manager. If they remove the file manager, the device is no more PDA.
fb401 said:
We go to WinMo because we DON'T want iphone os.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"We" aren't exactly a mass market, though. There were considerably more iPhones sold in the last 12 months than every single model of Windows Mobile phone put together. (WinMo is currently a distant fourth in the smartphone market behind Symbian, RIM and iPhone, with Android closing). The bulk of those who still buy WinMo phones are corporate customers. If abandoning the needs of a tiny minority of users (i.e. us) will net Microsoft a substantially improved marketshare, you can bet they'll do just that.
Having said that, I'm inclined to view this particular rumour with some suspicion; at the very least, with other rumours persistently claiming that there is more than one version of WM7 in the offing, it certainly makes no sense to assume, at this stage, that every available version will be like this.
sigh..........
I really hope some of this is not true. And I will wait until some formal announcement to make up my mind BUT if true, no multitasking, no user UI customization, no apps installed to sd card, all apps through the Marketplace?? Had I wanted to live in a walled garden I would have already bought an Iphone.
I've been using WinMo PDAs and phones for more years than I care to admit. Maybe it is time to simplify my life and get a dumb phone and swear off tech. Guess I can start carrying around all my passwords written down in a code again in my purse (shades of the 80's here except that I have a bunch more and they are all pretty complicated now- I do love my ewallet). grrrrrrr...............
In my attempt to get the most out of my WM powered device (HD2) i could not help realizing that windows mobile is not among the targets of big software names like Yahoo, Skype, Fring, Google and what's more intereseting not even by Microsoft...
Take for exemple Google... it has it's Android... and the thing that it is best at is integrating anything google related into android phones: mail, calendar, contacts, photos, maps... you name it.... and they do this out of the box... and with the best user experience keeping the looks of the web based counterparts...
Yahoo and Skype... they both have IM clients for Android, Iphone, Symbian, Blackberry... but NOT windows mobile... WHY?...
Fring is perfect with anything but WM
Iphone and Android are so new on the market yet everybody supports it asap.
As for Microsoft you would've expected at least to integrate their own apps into windows phones... but they don't... They have the live app wich integrates messenger, contacts and mail... but not in the best way... I would've liked to see something to directly make a space entry from your phone's interface, to directly publish a photo or to send a file to skydrive... to have calendar synced at its full web potential... i know you have the exchange emulation like google but what about alternate calendars...
Bing is another thing... we have to install it your self instead of beeing fully integrated into your windows phone....
So the question is how come WM lost terrain being that it is the oldest on the market and has such a computing power in support of it (I guess we all agree that MS is a giant)?....
WM was designed for business, hence why it has excellent integration with exchange email/calendar/contacts/etc. It also has the PDA version of office built in.
Skype works on WM6.5, there's a thread on it in the HD2 section.
You can set up your yahoo/google/hotmail accounts in seconds on it.
MS were slow (and looking at WP7 they're going backwards) on the mobile market, back when they started the market was for pocket PCs, people wanted a version of their desktop computer which could be carried in their hand, so making the interface similar was what people were after.
They didn't consider the consumer market really and got complacent. WM did the job it was designed for, which most of their customers wanted, so why change?
Then the mobile market took off, other manufacturers such as HTC took advantage of the business design of WM and created user interfaces such as TF3D/Sense. SPB have also created an excellent interface called Mobile Shell 3.5, I recommend installing the trial version and giving it a go.
MS didn't have much in the way of a development team behind WM, there was no perceived need, and it has no "cool" image to go with it, so there's a small market share, hence the lack of "Times Online" type apps for it while the iPhone is supported.
Why on earth would you want to install Bing though?
xaccers said:
WM was designed for business, hence why it has excellent integration with exchange email/calendar/contacts/etc. It also has the PDA version of office built in.
Skype works on WM6.5, there's a thread on it in the HD2 section.
You can set up your yahoo/google/hotmail accounts in seconds on it.
MS were slow (and looking at WP7 they're going backwards) on the mobile market, back when they started the market was for pocket PCs, people wanted a version of their desktop computer which could be carried in their hand, so making the interface similar was what people were after.
They didn't consider the consumer market really and got complacent. WM did the job it was designed for, which most of their customers wanted, so why change?
Then the mobile market took off, other manufacturers such as HTC took advantage of the business design of WM and created user interfaces such as TF3D/Sense. SPB have also created an excellent interface called Mobile Shell 3.5, I recommend installing the trial version and giving it a go.
MS didn't have much in the way of a development team behind WM, there was no perceived need, and it has no "cool" image to go with it, so there's a small market share, hence the lack of "Times Online" type apps for it while the iPhone is supported.
Why on earth would you want to install Bing though?
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This is exactly why Microsoft has utterly failed in the mobile space. People DO NOT want their desktop PC in their pocket. They just want a subset of their desktop, plus all the advantages that a mobile device offers. Apps, location awareness, always-on connectivity, etc. Nobody cares if you can edit a spreadsheet on your phone. Why would you want to do this in the first place?
Microsoft has failed to deliver anything "new" to the mobile space, and watched Google and Apple completely dominate the smartphone market. And Windows Phone 7? Another doomed failure from Redmond. It took them 4 years to copy Apple. Even RIM has better developer support than Microsoft...
Speaking of RIM, I think it's safe to say that Windows Mobile as a business platform has been a failure since the monochrome Blackberry days. RIM has been dominating there for quite a while.
So where is it that Windows Mobile fits in? Another me-too iPhone wanna be, or maybe the #2 or #3 business-oriented smart-phone OS? Meh...
xaccers said:
Why on earth would you want to install Bing though?
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I don't! but it was a clear example of not integrating even their own software out of the box...
as for the rest... one of the sides of the question was why the others are not considering WM as a viable platform to deliver their products?... all WM just have to find third party apps or "workarrounds" for them to work...
ccezar2004 said:
one of the sides of the question was why the others are not considering WM as a viable platform to deliver their products?... all WM just have to find third party apps or "workarrounds" for them to work...
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Here's the funny part:
Microsoft tried to BRIBE iPhone developers to port their apps for Windows Mobile. The result? Most said "go screw, your platform sucks."
That pretty much sums it up... They can't even get people working on Windows Mobile by paying them. .NET is a decent foundation, but development for a mobile device requires the right tools for the job. Plus, being 4 years behind the curve, it's going to be hard for M$ to get critical mass at this point.
The shocking thing is, they already have a successful product with a healthy developer community: The X-Box. Why they didn't look to that team for inspiration is beyond me...
Honestly, they should just give up. Most former WM people I know switched to Android long ago. I don't see any reviewers or users tripping over themselves to get the next Microsoft phone like they do for the next iPhone, Blackberry, Android, etc. Same goes for Zune and numerous other Microsoft train wrecks.
Windows Phone 7 will turn out to be just as lackluster as 6.5 - which is a good thing, because Android could use a few more users
HamNCheese said:
This is exactly why Microsoft has utterly failed in the mobile space. People DO NOT want their desktop PC in their pocket. They just want a subset of their desktop, plus all the advantages that a mobile device offers. Apps, location awareness, always-on connectivity, etc. Nobody cares if you can edit a spreadsheet on your phone. Why would you want to do this in the first place?
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I said "wanted" although many, including myself, still do.
It's the reason why WM is being renamed WMC rather than being dropped, because there are so many users out there who require a hand held versatile computer and WM does that job exceptionally well.
White collar business users need something well established which can edit office documents, seamlessly and reliably sync with their email system. They also want something flashy with an impressive screen. WM answers these needs perfectly.
The great unwashed want just the things you mentioned, in a handset which wows their friends and gains them kudos. WM can wow people, but it will never have the "coolness" of an iPhone, nor will android.
Will we see another WM phone? There's talk of a business version of WP7 which may be close but most likely not as good. Perhaps if when WP7 goes the way of Kin they'll sack the whole team and go back to WM.
RIM have a headstart on office phones because they answered a need which MS ignored, as they were too into letting manufacturers decide what the devices should be. Like the iPhone, most people/businesses go with RIM not because it's the most suitable for their needs, but because other people use it. Blackberrys are clunky, unreliable, awkward to use and a PITA to support.
xaccers said:
I said "wanted" although many, including myself, still do.
It's the reason why WM is being renamed WMC rather than being dropped, because there are so many users out there who require a hand held versatile computer and WM does that job exceptionally well.
White collar business users need something well established which can edit office documents, seamlessly and reliably sync with their email system. They also want something flashy with an impressive screen. WM answers these needs perfectly.
The great unwashed want just the things you mentioned, in a handset which wows their friends and gains them kudos. WM can wow people, but it will never have the "coolness" of an iPhone, nor will android.
Will we see another WM phone? There's talk of a business version of WP7 which may be close but most likely not as good. Perhaps if when WP7 goes the way of Kin they'll sack the whole team and go back to WM.
RIM have a headstart on office phones because they answered a need which MS ignored, as they were too into letting manufacturers decide what the devices should be. Like the iPhone, most people/businesses go with RIM not because it's the most suitable for their needs, but because other people use it. Blackberrys are clunky, unreliable, awkward to use and a PITA to support.
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So let me get this straight... Android, which is out-selling the iPhone at the moment, has failed to "wow" users? And Windows Phone 7 will "wow' who?
If RIM is beating them on Business applications, and the iPhone is killing them on "coolness" - how does Windows Mobile stand a chance?
Frankly, Roz Ho (and that whole team) should be fired. The whole Project Pink / Kin debacle shows exactly how little they understand the mobile market. The acquisition of Danger was one of the worst moves in the long run - all it did was bring pain and suffering to the employees and users.
HamNCheese said:
So let me get this straight... Android, which is out-selling the iPhone at the moment, has failed to "wow" users? And Windows Phone 7 will "wow' who?
If RIM is beating them on Business applications, and the iPhone is killing them on "coolness" - how does Windows Mobile stand a chance?
Frankly, Roz Ho (and that whole team) should be fired. The whole Project Pink / Kin debacle shows exactly how little they understand the mobile market. The acquisition of Danger was one of the worst moves in the long run - all it did was bring pain and suffering to the employees and users.
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I didn't say android didn't "wow" users, I said it won't have the "coolness" of an iPhone. iPhone is more a fashion item than a smartphone for most people, Apple have spent an absolute fortune building that "cool" image of their products. We know they suck, and android/WM is more customisable/better features/functions, but the great unwashed don't care about that, they just want to be able to show they're "cool" (lame) because they have an iPhone. Someone's already posted elsewhere that his aunt assumed his phone wasn't very good because it wasn't an iPhone.
Android, being an OS and in a similar way to WM, isn't the phone. The combination of the OS and the hardware makes a great phone, such as WM6.5 and the HD2, or the android equivalent. Put the OS on a crappy phone and it's not going to wow anyone. Android have been successful because they have the apps/games that non-sheep want, and its available on cheap phones. I hope they continue to eat away at Apple's share of the market, and continue to improve rather than end up taking a backwards step and following Apple/WP7. Of course, history is littered with the remains of better products which just haven't sold enough (betamax, hydropnumatic suspension, HD-DVD, Amy Studt albums).
RIM are only beating WM through their business model. Once a company has started using BES it's pretty much trapped, it doesn't make financial sense to change, they've paid for the hardware and the licences so they might as well keep using them even if there's a more reliable, functional and cheaper alternative.
In companies, in the UK at least, most people responsible for IT expenditure turn to external companies for advice or decide because they've read something in a magazine that their competitor is using.
External IT companies will have their own preferences for what they suggest; profitability, previous experience, acceptability to business.
Take one of the companies I support who've had years of trouble with blackberrys, they've recently changed network because they were fed up with the handset problems. They've got 40 handsets, that's a lot of money invested in something which often doesn't work. They're still having problems, ironically with the senior managers' handsets which isn't going down well. The users with their own WM handsets set up to sync with the exchange server have never had a problem. Until I arrived on the scene they had no idea there were alternatives.
MS have not pushed the abilities of WM, that's been their biggest failing. They've never acted like they take their handheld OSs seriously. Instead they concentrated on the more lucrative desktop and server business.
At the moment all my bile is being saved for Ray Ozzie (especially after finding out he's the asshat behind Lotus Notes) so I can't spare any for Roz (besides, she's kinda cute).
W7 seems to wow no one of any worth. It looks like it was designed by a new parent after buying their kid duplo bricks
I suppose it could be argued that some of us a "wowed" as to how bad it is.
This thread is degenerating into something else... Therefore I'm closing it.
Message to the OP... Chiar trebuie sa intrebi de ce ? Nu e clar ca Iphone si Android domnia marketu' deacum ? Noi, aici la xda, ne tinem cu dintzii de o epava care se scufunda, dar.. asta e...
So, I often read articles that "predict" OS market share changes in mobile and I always follow the source links as far back as I possibly can and I NEVER find data or methodology and I'm always curious how in the world they get these numbers. Today I thought it would be interesting to pull up some 2010 data and IDC suggested that by 2014 Android would have 24.6% market share (link at the bottom). Which I found hilarious. So I thought that I'd try to regress an equation using their variables and change the weights on their variables to more accurately depict the market today then run that regression to predict 2015's market shares. But as previously stated, I can't seem to find any of IDC's data or their methodology so I want to do something a little different. I want you guys to tell me one unique aspect (something not previously stated in another post on this thread), that you think would cause change (positive or negative) in a mobile operating system's market share.
I'll start by saying that I think that one variable would be open-source in nature, and that this particular variable would have a positive impact on market share.
http://www.enggjournals.com/ijcse/doc/003-IJCSESP24.pdf
Its from 2010, they were still predicting Android to gain quite a bit of market share by 2014, its just that in reality it happened a lot quicker than they thought. In the fast paced mobile market these things are hard to predict.
From a neutral point of view here is what I see happening over the next few years. Android will continue to rise but will eventually start leveling out as the market becomes saturated. The iPhone is already leveling out and will may see a reduction in percentage of the market share. There was recently a report that Apple has slashed orders for iPhone parts possibly meaning demand is not rising like it once was. See: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-5...-drop-lingers-following-iphone-parts-reports/ Windows Phone will gain market share as it uses the popularity of the desktop Windows 8 to lure users into the Microsoft ecosystem.
spunker88 said:
Its from 2010, they were still predicting Android to gain quite a bit of market share by 2014, its just that in reality it happened a lot quicker than they thought. In the fast paced mobile market these things are hard to predict.
From a neutral point of view here is what I see happening over the next few years. Android will continue to rise but will eventually start leveling out as the market becomes saturated. The iPhone is already leveling out and will may see a reduction in percentage of the market share. There was recently a report that Apple has slashed orders for iPhone parts possibly meaning demand is not rising like it once was. See: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-5...-drop-lingers-following-iphone-parts-reports/ Windows Phone will gain market share as it uses the popularity of the desktop Windows 8 to lure users into the Microsoft ecosystem.
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I think everyone agrees that Android has to lose market share and Apple has to, at the very least, stop growing (if not lose market share) if any other competitors are to enter/grow within the space. I agree with all of your points completely. My aim is to try to build an equation that can quantify these market changes.
"... uses the popularity of the desktop Windows 8 to lure user into the Microsoft operating system." That made me smile =]
iLiberate said:
"... uses the popularity of the desktop Windows 8 to lure user into the Microsoft operating system." That made me smile =]
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Windows 8 may not be very popular right now, but Microsoft has around 80-90% of the desktop/laptop market IIRC with most of the users on Windows 7 and XP for now. If Microsoft can use its desktop market share to get people familiar with the new Windows ecosystem they have a chance at making Windows Phone more popular. Its a pretty large gamble though because they have changed quite a bit with Windows 8 and we'll have to see how the market responds.
Personally I'd love to see Microsoft make a Intel Atom SoC phone that runs Windows Phone 8 but docks into a full x86 Windows 8 system running entirely off the phone hardware giving users the ability to not only run Windows Phone apps, but also run all of the x86 Windows programs. Now that Microsoft has moved WP8 over to the NT kernel this may be more of a realistic possibility.
Granted current Atom SoCs aren't that powerful, but Intel just announced the quad core Atom codename Bay Trail SoC. Imagine a future where companies give give their employees a Windows Phone instead of a laptop and they use a phone dock to turn the phone into a full desktop that can run all of their proprietary Windows programs.
Let's be realistic. It's almost impossible for anyone to predict what is going to happen in the mobile market.