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Apps2SD:Am I going crazy or just not paying attention

Before I get flamed, I know I posted this in the Sapphire General section, but the reason I am posting this here is 'cause I'm looking for more info from a different crowd. Thanks in advance.
Here is my dilemma.....
Cliff Notes Version:
Got the MY3G, did all the good stuff (rooted, CyanogenMod v4.0.4, Apps2SD, etc.,). However, after I configured Apps2Sd and the SD card with the partitions I could have swore I had 289MB (or something close to that) of free internal storage. I have installed numerous apps and it went down to 278. I know the Apps2SD worked, however what is taking up those 10 megs??? After I noticed this I began rebooting the phone after app installs to see if maybe the apps need to be pushed to the SD card during reboot. No luck. If anyone can throw me some advice or point me in the right direction that would be badass.
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your_helpfull_hand provided this answer:
You do know cache does take up room? Also if you installed apps thats why it went down. its normal
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I replied with:
your_helpfull_hand: This is my first Android based phone so thanks for taking it easy on me. Ok, I forgot about the cache....So, if I understand this correctly the apps will install on the SD card but the internal memory will still slowly decrease but not all crazy as if I was installing straight to the phone??
One more thing, after configuring Apps2SD how much internal storage should be left with (the phone being clean after loading Cyanogen)? As I mentioned I was originally left with 288MB or close to that. Is that about right? Should it more or less?
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So, that is where I am at. If anyone has additional info that would be awesome.

[Q] Will future versions of the Android OS fix this blasted "out of space" problem?

[Q] Will future versions of the Android OS fix this blasted "out of space" problem?
So I have been an avid fan of Google for many, many years. I was looking forward to the Google phone before any Android details came out. So I naturally jumped at the chance to own one. But lately, I'm starting to have a change of heart. These constant out of space warnings are really getting annoying.
So much in fact, I don't know that I want my next phone to be an Android device sadly. I really want to want another one. But this experience is starting to sour my taste for them.
I currently run a rooted (virtuous) Dinc. I have gotten the out of space notification many, many times. I have now started to get it again after installing the Google Music app after being invited into the beta. I have removed about 15 programs, but I still only have about 17MB free on that stupid 149MB partition!
This is beyond annoying. If the phone has something like 8GB of internal memory, why can't I use it? Why can't the apps install there? Why limit this massive amount of storage to a measly 150MB? What year is this, 1995?
I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but I am fed up. I don't know what else to do here and I'm ready to walk away. Someone please tell me that Google has saw the light and is going to fix this glaring bug of theirs in Gingerbread or Ice Cream Sandwich!

Why did you create a partition so small? You should create a larger partition to prevent these notifications so often since you'll have more space and use up the extra space not being used. Also, it's not the Android OS's fault that your phone has a small partition made. Since the partition is so small, and you have hardly any memory left (17mb) then it's just one of the phone's functions to notify you about this which should be a good thing to let you know.

theonew said:
Why did you create a partition so small? You should create a larger partition to prevent these notifications so often since you'll have more space and use up the extra space not being used. Also, it's not the Android OS's fault that your phone has a small partition made. Since the partition is so small, and you have hardly any memory left (17mb) then it's just one of the phone's functions to notify you about this which should be a good thing to let you know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm...I didn't make the partition...Android did. Trust me, if it were my choice it would be bigger!

ned4spd8874 said:
Umm...I didn't make the partition...Android did. Trust me, if it were my choice it would be bigger!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android doesn't just make partitions by itself. Maybe the rom you have did that. try getting a new rom because this is not normal.

theonew said:
Android doesn't just make partitions by itself. Maybe the rom you have did that. try getting a new rom because this is not normal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong. At least on the HTC Droid Incredible, ROM's have a standard 150 megabyte \data\data partition. For either odexed or deodexed ROM's space is taken in that partition by pretty much every installed application. I've seen contacts hog nearly 70 megabytes of that partition for some handsets, and Sense takes a lot of it, too. Odexed ROM's allegedly require less of the space.
I've run several Froyo ROM's and they all have that limitation. I cannot speak for AOSP ROM's, only Sense ROM's.
There is an app which I have used (but don't seem to be able to find in the Market any more, and the dev isn't responding to PM's here at xda, but I digress) called NotEnoughSpace which allows some portions of the contents to be shifted elsewhere. I found it was very helpful when I was on Froyo, but it does not appear to work on GingerSense. On the other hand, the partition appears to be bigger in GingerSense. The flip side is that the GingerSense ROM's are so fat, there's less RAM available for applications to run.
Pick your poison. I agree it's a stupid limitation that somebody should figure out a way to fix.

hgoldner said:
Wrong. At least on the HTC Droid Incredible, ROM's have a standard 150 megabyte \data\data partition. For either odexed or deodexed ROM's space is taken in that partition by pretty much every installed application. I've seen contacts hog nearly 70 megabytes of that partition for some handsets, and Sense takes a lot of it, too. Odexed ROM's allegedly require less of the space.
I've run several Froyo ROM's and they all have that limitation. I cannot speak for AOSP ROM's, only Sense ROM's.
There is an app which I have used (but don't seem to be able to find in the Market any more, and the dev isn't responding to PM's here at xda, but I digress) called NotEnoughSpace which allows some portions of the contents to be shifted elsewhere. I found it was very helpful when I was on Froyo, but it does not appear to work on GingerSense. On the other hand, the partition appears to be bigger in GingerSense. The flip side is that the GingerSense ROM's are so fat, there's less RAM available for applications to run.
Pick your poison. I agree it's a stupid limitation that somebody should figure out a way to fix.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, thanks for explaining that much better than I could!
I do have NotEnoughSpace and don't use it for that purpose anymore. I just use it to see how much space I have available and to clean up the dalvik cache. When I was using it to get more space, my apps kept disappearing on me and I would have to re-install them constantly!

is this just a droid problem? i have an epic 4g and it allows me to use the entire 485mb for app storage. what about an apps to sd option? i know at least half of my apps have the option of being stored on the sd card. just wondering.

darksideauto said:
is this just a droid problem? i have an epic 4g and it allows me to use the entire 485mb for app storage. what about an apps to sd option? i know at least half of my apps have the option of being stored on the sd card. just wondering.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Every app that can be moved to the SD is. But I still have only 17MB available.

ned4spd8874 said:
Every app that can be moved to the SD is. But I still have only 17MB available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This does not make any sense. If an app is moved to the SD Card, the space it took up on the device (some if not all) should be gained back since it's not there any longer. Whenever I move an app to the SD Card, I get back my space. There really must be something wrong with your rom/phone.

You sir have alot of apps then.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

The small internal Storage is a massive problem. I agree to you.
But I know there are several ways to fix this. What I don't know is how...
There are several ROMs who support different kinds of app2sd scripts so you get more 'virtual' internal storage on the sd card.
As you can see on the pictures attached i have approx. 550 mb free internal storage but more than 40 apps that could be pushed to sd.
To get this it is necessary to re-partition your sd-card and install the correct scripts.
Unfortunately, as i said, i'm not able to tell you exactly how to get this work. I just followed a step-by-step guide somwhere in this forum.
The ROM i use, uses D2SD automatically, if the SD-card is partitioned the right way.
I'm sure you will find something that fits to the ROM you use.

darksideauto said:
You sir have alot of apps then.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have 75 non-standard/included apps. I've read where other people have hundreds!

pistolero0 said:
The small internal Storage is a massive problem. I agree to you.
But I know there are several ways to fix this. What I don't know is how...
There are several ROMs who support different kinds of app2sd scripts so you get more 'virtual' internal storage on the sd card.
As you can see on the pictures attached i have approx. 550 mb free internal storage but more than 40 apps that could be pushed to sd.
To get this it is necessary to re-partition your sd-card and install the correct scripts.
Unfortunately, as i said, i'm not able to tell you exactly how to get this work. I just followed a step-by-step guide somwhere in this forum.
The ROM i use, uses D2SD automatically, if the SD-card is partitioned the right way.
I'm sure you will find something that fits to the ROM you use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've used the app2sd and notenoughspace programs in the past, but it seems they have done more harm than good. Apps would stop working. They would disappear completely. The system would crash, etc. I kinda gave up hope on using those approaches.
I was hoping the Google Android team would wake up and just fix this instead of us paying users have to perform work-arounds just to use our devices.

ned4spd8874 said:
I've used the app2sd and notenoughspace programs in the past, but it seems they have done more harm than good. Apps would stop working. They would disappear completely. The system would crash, etc. I kinda gave up hope on using those approaches.
I was hoping the Google Android team would wake up and just fix this instead of us paying users have to perform work-arounds just to use our devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then you are pretty unlucky. I never had problems with this stuff. All works just fine as it should.
But, of course you are right, i can't understand why they don't give us a GB or so as internal storage either.
Damn scrooges.

ned4spd8874 said:
I've used the app2sd and notenoughspace programs in the past, but it seems they have done more harm than good. Apps would stop working. They would disappear completely. The system would crash, etc. I kinda gave up hope on using those approaches.
I was hoping the Google Android team would wake up and just fix this instead of us paying users have to perform work-arounds just to use our devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try using a cleaner ROM for your DInc (ie "stock Android"- no Sense UI). I just got a DInc yesterday, switching from an Aria. Did a factory wipe, rooted, and installed the CM7 nightly 100. I believe I currently have s2e on my 8gb MicroSD (just swapped it from my Aria, which had s2e and CM7). Anyway, I have 118MB used, 630MB free internal storage space for apps. This clearly isn't a Google/Android problem. Could be an HTC Sense problem, I suppose.
edit: My Aria even has 185MB available for apps. Not a huge amount, but considering it has a lot less internal space than a DInc, yeah, OP something is wrong.

[Q] What do you guys think about adding swap support in the HTC Sensation

Hello,
I was reading a lot of posts about adding a swap partition in the SD card for android devices.
There seems to be no support for it in the stock kernel of the HTC Sensation, and there isnt any rom that supports it.
Is it very difficult to recompile a kernel (for example I'm using LEEdroid 1.3)
Do you guys think that it will be worth the hassle?
I have a Class 10 Sd card, and coming from a Nokia N900 swapping on it wasnt that slow, but In what Im more interested is in keeping more things in memory to avoid doing reloads (for example when you open 3 tabs in the web browser and go to google talk or play something like drag racing and then you reopen the web browser all the tabs must be reloaded, from what I understand to avoid running out of memory).
Sorry for my english, sorry for asking this in this forum, but I'm a new member and I'm not allowed to Post in the android development forums, but any help would be really appreciated.
Again Sorry for my english,
And Saludos desde españa!

i was thinking the same way but it seems that no one is interested in swap support

There comes a point when swap just wouldn't be as useful. It was needed on the G1 because it barely had enough Ram to hold a home screen in memory, so there was no other alternative BUT to use swap to make your phone functional, but on a phone like this it would noticeably slow it down since your sdcard would be slower than internal Ram. The reason it would be slower is because the phone doesn't actually run the apps from swap, it just stores them there, so every time you would want to run an app that was stored in swap, your phone would have to move one app from internal ram to swap, then move the app you want to use back to internal. Even with a class 10 sdcard, that would be slower than your dual-core phone opening the app from scratch I'd think...
Hopefully this helps, and hopefully I explained it right. Been so long since I used swap, I really had to think to remember.

[Q] Why only 323MB RAM total?

My new Samsung Galaxy S 4G has, to my understanding 1G ROM for system use, 512MB RAM for apps to run in, and an 8GB SD Card for storage.
I'm not understanding something about the setup though. The main question is I go to Task Manager, then RAM, and I usually am using about 250mb -- out of 323MB. 323mb?? Where the hell is the rest of my RAM?
Also when I install an app that can't install to the SD card for whatever reason, where the hell is it going? into my 512RAM? Into my ROM? When I click the Storage Tab, it says Internal Phone Storage 452MB/514MB. External SD Card 1.56GB/7.39GB.
So I'm assuming the ROM has a hidden section for the system, and leaves 514MB for phone apps.
I guess I'm mainly wondering why I only have 323MB to run things in. I have been having problems with it running slow, or randomly rebooting the main interface (then it re-reads the SD cards which takes a minute). This is with just a few apps open; say, Doubletwist playing a podcast and Navigator guiding me somewhere.
I did update to 2.3.6 when that came out and it actually made my phone quite a bit zippier. I've rooted, and I use Titanium Backup to get rid of a bunch of junk that Tmobile put on there. But there's still things running that I don't want taking RAM, but don't want to get rid of. QIK for example likes to have a service running, as does facebook. I like to use Qik sometimes facebook on occasion, and I just want to start the app those times, not have it running all the time. Telenav GPS has a service running all the time too. I'd like to use that app sometimes, but don't want it in my RAM until that time -- why the service? Oh and in Services (through Settings->Applications->Running Services it says at the bottom RAM 165MB used 101MB free. What RAM is this referring to anyway?
Please someone help me understand how RAM works on this thing. I'm totally new to Android, just came over from using an iphone for years so this is all new.

The main reason you see only 323MB of RAM is that the rest is dedicated to memory-mapped devices link the video card. That lovely screen needs backing memory.

IDisposable said:
The main reason you see only 323MB of RAM is that the rest is dedicated to memory-mapped devices link the video card. That lovely screen needs backing memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
man that blows >.< we need to be able 2 add ram like we can on PCs >.<
TY for the answer i been wondering

[Q] Swap, ext2/3/4(?) guide?

Ok first off hope everyone had a great holiday (or Christmas, as the case may be )
I have come to realize that alot of my issues may/may not have been caused by factors outside my phone or the rom I was attempting to install and use. I will give myself credit tho in that in all but one case I have managed to follow instructions to a "T" and have not experienced many/any of the issues that others have. Anyways, I got a new wireless router, and also a class 10 SD card. Some of my earlier connectivity issues are very rare now, and camera issues seem to be minimal also (assuming that the issue there was write speed to the card).
So I've really come to like a few of the roms, in particular one I'm liking right now VERY MUCH is MIUI 1.11.9. What a nicely put together package that is. I would really really like to stay with it.
However, it's huge. With that and two apps (Gmail and Facebook), I'm lucky if I have 14 mb left over. Obviously, this causes crashes and reboots left right and center. Camera usage is almost impossible. But, I'm willing to admit, the problem is likely my fault, because I have not done anything to manipulate swap/ext/etc on my sd card. I have the phone, and I have a formatted 16 gb class 10 sd card.
I've looked through 10 pages of threads and to be honest I'm finding it hard to know where to begin. I'm convinced, however, that if I can learn what swap ext/ext2/ext3 do, and how to create/use them..and whatever else, that MIUI and probably a few of the other roms will be amazing for me.
So is someone bored over the holidays here and can help either point me in the right direction of a Guide to do this, or maybe even write a bit about it for me? Assume I know nothing about how to create a swap, an ext, link2sd, any of it. I don't know how to use terminal emulator, modify or execute scripts...but I can learn!!
I realize that I'm asking for info that is probably obtainable by reading numerous other threads..but I can't find anything truly comphrensive..it's too bad threads couldn't be "stickied"...this subject seems crucial to me in order to get some of these roms to run ok. Many of them operate the same way: they take up 100 mb or so, and they don't allow for easy moving of apps to the SD card.
Anyways many thanks in advance if you can help. I'm sure there's a few others who could probably use a refresher in this also.

I'm learning alot about this and hope to update this thread with my own tips for how to do this in the coming days.
That is, if anyone is interested. If so, hit me with a msg.
Sent from my Milestone XT720 using XDA App

internal upgrade?
can someone tell me how to upgrade the internal memory because im getting very low in phone memory.. are there any solutions like using the 1GB for the internal memory of my 8GB card?

Well, you cant physically expand the memory but you can virtually via an extended primary partition and an app like link2sd.
Sent from my Milestone XT720 using XDA App

Hey acrobat69
I am pretty much the same boat as you. I have tried a bunch of ROMs, and I am still on 6.3 rc3 now.. went back and tweeked after learning some things and this is the least buggy for me at the moment.
I also do not use swap at the moment.. but this is also something that those in the know here on the Xt720 forums have debated.. how useful is it???
I would love to try swap.. or any other tips you might have.. so I at least will be listening.
I would like to get FM radio working on 6.3 rc3 too.. no luck so far.
I have found that when you overclock.. some speeds and Vsel work better in some roms.. or applications.
I saw one fellow who was running 800/48vsel - overall nice and great for battery usage.. but camera would not work at 48vsel.. would crash it .. running several highpower apps like wifi tether and gps at the same time would crash a low vsel set phone..
SO I know there are many factors that you can tune to make a rom work best for you.
James

When I get back to my PC, ill type something up on this for you as well as archer's other thread similar to this Q.

FYI, FM radio works since 6.3.0 RC4. Well at least as much as FM radio "works" on any of the non-stock-based ROMs at the moment-- volume control is difficult/problematic.
I think 6.3.6 is a good choice if you don't mind disabling the hardware button lights. And if it does bother you, I can make a patch that puts the lights back as the were in RC3 (but would disable notification leds).
Sent from my Milestone XT720 using xda premium

Ok so to answer a few of the above questions, I'll try to break it up into sections. Ext2/3/4, Swap and basic memory management.
Ext partitions: since our XT's are so low on memory, a fair while back some scripts were created to make it so that when you downloaded an app, it went into your ext partition and not to the internal. Remember that this was when we had 2.1 and Froyo was only a dream. As you know Froyo has the native App2sd function where you can move most of the app's data/function to your SD card via the .androidsecure folder on your card. Since this was not a function on 2.1 we needed a bypass. This was done by creating a EXT partition on your SDCard to bypass/hijack the installation process and "force" the apps to install to the SDCard rather than the meager internal memory. Since the grand old days, we have evolved that function from app2sd to app2ext where now the /cache can be moved over to the partition as well, in addition to apps like Link2sd with one-click UI to do it for you.
This is how to do it.
1 Make sure your ROM supports app2ext-it should be in that ROMs OP.
2 You need to use GParted or Minitool Partition Wizard to create your Ext2/3 partitions (do not create an Ext4 with either of these b/c they won't work correctly, most ROMs don't support it and you can convert it from 2/3 to 4 in MZ's open recovery).
3 You have a 16gb card and are asking what size should I make my partitions. They need to be in this order-FAT/EXT/SWAP from L->R. FAT is what it sounds like. It is your biggest sized one (and make it Primary/Bootable in your partition wizard). Your Ext is going to be up to you on the size. I usually recommend 350-450mb. Anything bigger is really wasted space. In fact, I chorgle to myself when I see people with 1gb Ext partitions b/c your average size app is usually about 7-12mb (with something like Angry Birds at a meaty 18mb). Remember that 1gb=1024mb. 12mb vs 1024mb-see what I am saying here?
4 So now you have your partitions set up. How do you activate it. You flash your ROM and let it settle down. Get ROOT and open a file manager and go to the ROOT. You will see a folder labeled SD-ext. Open this folder and make another folder called App (not Apps-no S) or if you are using Link2sd, you would put a folder called Link2sd (not LinkS2sd-again no S). Reboot and BAM!!!once it boots up, all your apps that you had will be in there and any new ones will be installed there saving you tons of internal space.
I'll cover Swap tomorrow b/c I am tired of typing for now but here is a thread on some unknown types of memory management that you can do on your own.
Sorry for the long post but I wanted to make it as general as possible so that it wasn't too technical.

Woodrube thank you very much for that, indeed very helpful and to the point. Ill hit you with a thanks when back on my laptop.
James: debates nothwithstanding, I can't see how its possible to install one of these Roms and actually use it...and any decent number of apps with stability, without using the extended partition. I have not had any success until I learned how to do this. Therefore, were absolutely not going to debate it, just do it!
To Woodrubes excellent instructions I will add these tips, learned from Mio7's advice and trial and error:
- do any partitioning before you install your new rom, and do it via a card reader inserted into your computer, not by plugging the phone into the computer via usb.
- do not make the second partition fat. In some threads people said it worked however it never works for me. Create the second partition as ext2 , then go to open recovery and convert it to ext3
- use root explorer to create the folder in sd-ext as Woodrube advised. Make sure root explorer is in R/W mode not R/O or you wont be allowed to
- install Link2sd first of any program. It's when you're running link2sd it seems that you can't create the link for certain applications check the market to see if to the downloadable version then uninstall the app from the phone and reinstall it yourself then when you go back into linksd youll be able to create a link. I'm still experimenting with just how much I can rip out of the system and then reinstall myself so as to be able to move over to the sd card. Btw if the rom app manager wont let you uninstall, use the uninstall function in link2sd. It works, even tho it says "Failed" when done.
See the signature at the bottom of my thread that should be all you need to know about whether not the advice in this thread is good because I'm posting from my phone and I'm using voice to text
Next up I'm going to try installing other roms like MIUI or 7.1 to see you what ones this can be used on. I will post my successes and failures in this thread
Sent from my Milestone XT720 using XDA App

With regard to milestone overclock settings I'm currently running 900 and 60 and have achieved general stability with no crashes during picture taking or video recording
Sent from my Milestone XT720 using XDA App

Mio: Nooo don't disable LED its great the way it is. Who needs those backlights anyways the keys are far enough away to not need a light to tell my thumbs where to go by now
Sent from my Milestone XT720 using XDA App