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T-Mobile sneaks "rootkit" into G2 phones - reinstalls locked-down OS after root
Not that there haven't been preventative measures before, but it looks like the G2 will be "unrootable" to start. Might be something to consider before jumping in with the G2. Very sad as this phone looks like a winner in all other ways.
Here is the original article on BoingBoing.
Hmmm... I'd be interested to know where the original OS ROM is stored, as that would take up a lot of space...
If it's true, then we next find how it "decides" it's rooted, and look at fooling that. If not, look at changing the image to be flashed with a custom ROM or dummy one.
Still failing that, perhaps looking into what calls this chip, and if boot process could be made to skip this.
Something seems strange about this, though I've not researched it properly yet... anyone seen it reported on other sources yet?
pulser_g2 said:
anyone seen it reported on other sources yet?
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http://gizmodo.com/5656921/t+mobiles-g2-rootkit-will-reinstall-stock-android-after-a-jailbreak
Master™ said:
http://gizmodo.com/5656921/t+mobiles-g2-rootkit-will-reinstall-stock-android-after-a-jailbreak
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Thanks, that links back to XDA, so I had a quick read of the latest... I was considering buying the G2/whatever it's called, but I have now changed my mind.
Yes folks, I just made a purchasing decision based on some silly little security chip, and I encourage others to do likewise. I am sure the security will be broken on it, at which point (if it's a permanent root/custom flash) I would re-consider my position, but as it stands, I refuse to buy it.
I have no idea who decided this was needed, but I certainly will not be buying from them in future. If it's T-Mobile, I will switch network (despite the fact they're a good network in the UK), if HTC I will look to other manufacturers.
[/rant
It's not that much different to what Motorola is doing with the Droid X, Droid 2 and Milestone, where if it detects any meddling it will brick the phone.
But in the long term, it's OUR phones, we can do whatever we please. Trust me it will be bypassed, if a lock can be made by a human, it can be BROKEN by a human. Look at the Desire for example.
They should do what they did with the N1, if the user unlocks the bootloader, and meddles with it until they bugger the phone, and they try sending it back for warranty, it's the users fault.
Just_s said:
Not that there haven't been preventative measures before, but it looks like the G2 will be "unrootable" to start. Might be something to consider before jumping in with the G2. Very sad as this phone looks like a winner in all other ways.
Here is the original article on BoingBoing.
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Explain to me how write protection == rootkit. In fact, it's quite the opposite - a rootkit (of sorts) allows us to exploit our way into a rootshell and install su to /system/bin/. This is nothing more than clever write-protection in the mmc.
And as usual, HTC is late on delivering the kernel source so we can really see what's up...
pulser_g2 said:
Yes folks, I just made a purchasing decision based on some silly little security chip, and I encourage others to do likewise. I am sure the security will be broken on it, at which point (if it's a permanent root/custom flash) I would re-consider my position, but as it stands, I refuse to buy it.
I have no idea who decided this was needed, but I certainly will not be buying from them in future. If it's T-Mobile, I will switch network (despite the fact they're a good network in the UK), if HTC I will look to other manufacturers.
[/rant
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Why would HTC look to other carriers?
I ranted about this back in the WinMo days, but XDA is essentially picking up the slack for manufacturer/carrier actions. You said so yourself; you're not considering the G2 for a purchase anymore....until XDA or another dev forum finds a way around the security measure. And you will not buy from them...so long as HTC doesn't work with the carrier anymore, but if sales remain the same, they'll have no reason to stop.
So manufacturers/carriers don't need to change the way they implement security measures, they just need to keep making desirable phones and so long as others pick up the slack, they'll be able to capture the sales of the userbase that likes rooting their phones. This is going to continue being the case -- Android manufacturers will create phones and users will buy the phones on the promise that forums like XDA will make it better.
For real change to occur, sales have to be greatly affected.
Looks like the anti-root movement is beginning to snowball into a full fledged avalanche. I currently have a Droid X and it seems its locked bootloader has cause many devs to give up. Sure we have root and a few roms and themes to get rid of bloatware, but it isn't as great as a full unlock, not to mention lack of a true SBF for OTA 2.2 users.
HTC was going to be my next choice after I got bored with my X in about a year or so (more like 6 months). But it seems now that they've developed this tech for the G2, I'm sure all other carriers will want it on all future HTC devices. As soon a Samsung steps it up and creates their own locked bootloader, we'll all be SOL. What's left? Dell? Sony Ericsson?
Seems like all carriers will only be selling phones with locked bootloaders. I thought HTC was on our side, but the G2 is proof of the contrary. We need a manufacturer that embraces devs. With the recent bootloader unlocking failures seen with the Droid X and the difficulty seen with the Milestone, does anyone here think the development community can overcome the bootloader challenge?
HTC response to G2 complaint
emailed HTC to voice my displeasure. rather than ignoring my email, they felt compelled to reply with some low level, non-commital, and utterly moronic dribble especially in light of t-mobile already having released its lame-o statement. i also find it rather questionable that google had any part in this. too bad that HTC is following the Motorola model of duping folks into thinking they bought a device when all that money actually just buys time-limited, pre-defined functionality.
Without root Android wont be the same, looks like I'll be going back to Winders if this is the direction they are going to take it. They are taking all the fun out of it.
I have seen some threads for kids apps. I am interested in finding/building a kids ROM.
My child has a prepaid SIM card and RAZR to be used for certain situations. I would want to be able to let my child carry the phone all the time but restrict what numbers could be called.
So my idea, which can't be an original one, is leverage Android power to install a rooted ROM but run in user mode when I give it to my child. User mode could restrict calling to the phone book only or restrict wi-fi/data access; basically anything that you wanted to restrict or remove. Maybe there could be a ROM builder.
I have many scenarios in mind but maybe they could all be solved by software apps instead of getting into a custom ROM? I'm tech savvy, but haven't ever done a ROM. If the answer is to develop a custom ROM, what device should I choose that would get the most community support? I figure it would be a low end phone, since the point is to make a children's rom.
May I ask how old is your child?
[Sig] dId you know? If you Insert a Coin on your Desire, then it levels up to HD, Z or S :[/Sig]
i was thinking of my son when you mentioned this, it is a great i dea, and i also thought if the original att kid's phone that was out a few years back. it was revamped and it sucked. but good luck on either building one or have some one make one ( put a bounty on it?)
Phones and ROMs
My child is 8 years old. I figure in a few years that it would be fine, but it seems like there would be more of a market for this.
I would put up a bounty for it but I'd prefer to make this a community effort too.
So I will change tack here and ask what the best ROM might be for me to start with and what phones might be recommended? I'm figuring that CM would be easiest to start with, generically?
Thoughts?
I think that is a very good idea.
A good part of that could be accoimplished with a kids theme on an existing ROM.
im sorry but the RAZR is a dumb-phone! it doesnt support 3rd party modding. im afraid you are mistaking the word 'ROM' and actually don't know what it means! You will have no luck finding such ROM for the RAZR... A bootloader of any sort does not exist!
You need a smartphone if you want such a job done, but it requires a investment into a smartphone which are generally more expensive and not intended for 'kids'
I understand...
@olyloh6696: Thanks for looking in on the thread!
You misunderstood what I was explaining. She _currently_ has a RAZR. I want to figure out what the best GSM _android_ phone would be to do the project I'm describing would be. I would of course have to get the new phone; I do understand that the RAZR does not support android (dumbphone).
Any thoughts on phone model or something out there like this already?
rykerwilliams said:
@olyloh6696: Thanks for looking in on the thread!
You misunderstood what I was explaining. She _currently_ has a RAZR. I want to figure out what the best GSM _android_ phone would be to do the project I'm describing would be. I would of course have to get the new phone; I do understand that the RAZR does not support android (dumbphone).
Any thoughts on phone model or something out there like this already?
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hi
well i guess the best option for a relatively cheap phone (that has android) is the zte blade (in my sig) it is a british phone, but gsm, so i think it should work in the us. if you read reviews for it, it has specs of the desire, nexus one, etc in a cheap budget range. read some revies on it! it also cost £100. Not sure what your budget is though. before you set out to buy the phone, you may need to look up a rom that supports the requirements you want, or you could request one/build your own.
good luck
Unrelated, but the RAZR does support modding lol. Back in the day, pre-Android, I used to hack the hell out of my Razr. There's even a hidden feature called Club Lights that uses the phone's microphone to detect music and make the lights on the phone go with the beat. Youtube it.
That's a great idea... it would be great on a tablet too.
I'm always worried that my son is going to click around in the market and download tons of apps without know it.
Remove Dialer.app, replace with custom Dialer.app
Is the source for the Dialer.app known, i.e. part of the main trunk of the Android sources? I was just thinking that it might not be too hard to just modify that original source to limit it only to the "contacts" tab, that way you can only call the contacts tab.
Another feature I thought of is using some kind of Dynamic DNS client to be able to dial in to the phone.
I was thinking that there could be a "phone home" app that would call home and report the currently used minutes and GPS coordinates, or similar.
Just trying to get the features set worked out and find out if there is existing apps that do this stuff.
2018, quick google search for Kids Custom ROM.... dead thread no progress. There is definitely a market for this, since it's easy to shove a phone into an OtterBox like case and let them have at it with safe guards. My kid has had an Ipad since age 2 without issue. Now she asks for my phone on occasion (years later). It would be easier to just take a custom ROM shove it on a cheap device and give it to her.
Sure, I am a minority, definitely but I can't consider myself the only person who would want to do this.
This is what I'm looking for my child. I'm a software engeneer but I've never works on Android. I think it's not a great works for an Android developer.
I'll follow this post for news.
digging this one up again. anyway to take something like at Nexux 5x and put a totally stripped down version of android on it to achieve something like the lightphone?
nvrpunk said:
2018, quick google search for Kids Custom ROM.... dead thread no progress. There is definitely a market for this, since it's easy to shove a phone into an OtterBox like case and let them have at it with safe guards. My kid has had an Ipad since age 2 without issue. Now she asks for my phone on occasion (years later). It would be easier to just take a custom ROM shove it on a cheap device and give it to her.
Sure, I am a minority, definitely but I can't consider myself the only person who would want to do this.
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Per capita, there are very few people that actually root or flash custom ROMs, the number of kids that could/would use such a ROM is even less than that, this means it is not worth a developers time and hard work to build a ROM for this purpose, especially considering the plethora of different devices out there in the world. There would not be enough kids using "this" or "that" device with "this" or "that" custom ROM. To be as convenient for kids as what you are asking about, there would have to be a "kids ROM" for a large number of devices. This is not a reasonable expectation by any standard.
Add to that, the fact that rooting devices and flashing ROMs can quickly go bad if the user is not familiar with certain aspects of using a device that is rooted or flashed with a custom ROM, this makes for some rather difficult issues to solve due to user error, ignorance and inexperience of the user.
If you want a "safe" or "basic" ROM for a device, you'll have to learn how to build it yourself because I can promise you that no developer is willing to put that much time and effort into building ROMs that will only be used by a small number of users.
Sent from my LGL84VL using Tapatalk
hmm
Interesting, I guess I never thought of one.
It would be WAY beyond my ability, as I am struggling on getting CM9 to run on the device at the moment. So while the concept of one is interesting, I've already voided my warranty... so most developers that have the device have probably already done the same.
Although to be honest, most developers I speak to are pretty turned off about Moto and their prior unlocking policies. It's a shame, but their past seems like it might hurt the developer desire to get this device.
I'll be honest, I am spending alot of time trying to learn how to brew on the android kitchen. I have the Verizon Droid charge, the Motorola Droid 1, the Verizon LG G2 (A phone I want to sell), and several others in my possession and no expertise on how to start a good rom. So how did our developers make theirs? Nothing we have is useless unless we have no use for it. Then are we any better than what we own?
The community was full of talented developers and modders that would put their all into it. Even when a update was in testing developers was still able to get us a copy so that we didn't have to wait for the carrier dragging their feet. We had guarantee root and unroot methods. People would answer questions when asked. Threads would always got comments no matter the topic. I don't know what happened to this great community. Almost seem like people don't care to much anymore. I come here almost every day and it's no new activity. Could it be this device or did xda-developers really change?
It's this device. Unless we get a bootloader unlock, you'll see the same activity pretty much every single day. If you check out the Exynos version of this device, activity is splendid and dev support is pretty well. Many of us knew that this device would stay locked, and you as well should have known before purchasing this device.
xWolf is 99% right.
Our devices are locked down, not a lot you can do when the bootloader is encrypted. The old days of leaked keys and hacked bootloader's are pretty much over.
The other 1% is the communities attitude. We have people running full stock down talking people who want to root. We have people who don't read and flash things that were never meant for their device. Then there are the people who attack developers for not doing things how they want... that's just in the T-Mobile S7 edge forums.
I have multiple phones. Some my daily driver like the s7 are mostly stock running the U firmware, but my G3 is still being developed I have Nougat on my G3... my S4 is still developed, and my s6 is slow but there are a few dedicated folks doing stuff. I have been part of XDA for about a decade soft and hard bricked more than a few phones working with devs to test things and the last few years the community has been flooded with people who don't deserve the time and effort these devs put into their work.
Sorry rant over...
Sent from my SM-G935U using XDA Premium HD app
problem is things like samsung pay which are awesome. As we switch to a smartphone taking over PC's for standard users development like this will die. I miss the old days too. I just wish I could overclock my cpu/gpu on my S7 and still have samsung pay. Not having to carry my wallet is nice.
This isn't specific to the T-Mo forums, unfortunately. Though there does seem to be more virtual foot-traffic in the AT&T realm (I'm an AT&T user), it essentially amounts to the same level of traction.
I concur with what others have said, and honestly - I don't care about root at this point. Phones do most everything that I want (custom launcher, etc), but the one thing that drives me insane is the lack of ability to do a nandroid backup. I cannot stand that - after all this time on Android - Google has not made this a possibility without root. Light users don't and won't care, but then again they aren't on XDA in the first place. Those of us that are want to be able to backup things in a "snapshot" type of way, so we don't have to start from scratch. Helium, and similar apps only go so far (not nearly far enough, IMO) to band-aid this.
This phone isn't geared toward the "XDA user" in the first place. 99.9% of people who use this device have no idea what a nandroid is and how it benefits them. And honestly, on a stock device, I also fail to see the utility of snapshot backups. I get why they exist but how often does the casual user wipe their device to make it worthwhile? Also, space is still pretty limited on mobile devices. Google will never bring this functionality to Android, but I would not complain if they had a backup utility similar to Apple's iTunes, which restores everything from a computer. That actually makes sense, and I am surprised that Google has not made something similar.
That being said, there are plenty of excellent devices that offer you what you want. Everything is a trade-off.
Kingaries79 said:
The community was full of talented developers and modders that would put their all into it. Even when a update was in testing developers was still able to get us a copy so that we didn't have to wait for the carrier dragging their feet. We had guarantee root and unroot methods. People would answer questions when asked. Threads would always got comments no matter the topic. I don't know what happened to this great community. Almost seem like people don't care to much anymore. I come here almost every day and it's no new activity. Could it be this device or did xda-developers really change?
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Come to the V20. You have to follow the hardware to play you cant go with what has the best hardware all the time.