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Impressions from HTC Cruise - Windows Mobile
Hello All,
I have been relatively new here, but I thought I could contribute in the forums by posting my (unbiased) views about HTC Cruise here, hoping other people may find them useful. I am a software developer, so although I do not have an experience with hi-tech PDAs and smartphones, (never owned such a device before), I am fine with the technicalities of such devices.
My everyday phone was a simple sony ericson K510i . What had always annoyed me was that in most "simple" phones, it was quite hard to control the phone via my PC, do backups, backup contacts, SMSes, etc. My sony was good, I had found "MYPhoneExplorer" which pretty much did all those things for my phone. The screen was little bit outdated in terms of resolution, but I did not mind much.
And then came iPhone (which I never owned). I was impressed by its design, usability and user friendliness. I also liked the idea of having WiFi on it. I was close to buying that phone and using one of the available tools to unlock it, (noway I would pay for a contract - I am UK based). My brother who is into mobiles and gadgets more than I am, commented on the fact that iPhone is an "old" generation phone in terms of phone technologies and overpriced. I soon realised it was quite overpriced and started looking at alternatives. I was happy to see HTC would release a really cool phone, which I could get as my Christmas gift (yes, dream on, I had my eyes on it since November and managed to get it this February)...
So, what are my impressions so far?
I dare to say, quite mixed...
On the one hand this device is really wicked and cool! It has all the things I had always liked and needed in a single device. Packing a GPS, a radio, 3G, WiFi in a nice package is just amazing. I can now listen to music, watch videos, find my way around using GPS and have a nice PDA. These are really cool things! No need to have my pockets filled with separate devices...
On the other hand, this phone costed me little bit less than 400 pounds. One can argue you can get a laptop for that price, but then again, a laptop is not a phone. The video issues has not been much of an issue for me, I encode my videos at QVGA and all is well. However, I do get *very* upset when I realise that there is hidden potential in the hardware platform which has not been utilised. What I found bad straight from the moment i used it, is that when i press the "phone-call" hard button, there really is a lag when drawing the blue rectangle above the dialpad, (I am talking about the area which shows the names of your contacts as you type the numbers below.) I mean, come on, so much CPU power, and I can see the blue area being drawn? The other things is that if a couple of applications are running, then the phone does not seem to be operating so smoothly. Again, in order to be fair, it is still very usable. However, as things stand now in the market, in terms of specifications this phone is easily on the upper part, so in my opinion it should be fast, not just "very usable".
My other bit of criticism is probably related to Windows rather than HTC cruise. I find this OS quite interesting on the device, there is a huge applications' base and the things that are missing can be coded by talented people. However, I find the platform a little bit of a pain to use in a pure phone context. Why do i have to check an option everytime I want to get back a delivery report for my SMS? Why do I have to hack the registry to make this permanent? I set a wallpaper in my phone, then I set its transparency, then I realise it is hidden by the today plugin, which I can of course disable. If I disable it I loose certain features which are accessible straight away. I can of course get a new plugin that matchs my needs. Why is it so hard to have tabs with incoming/outgoing/missed calls? This is a feature that phones that cost 10 times less have. Of course Windows 6.1 has this, but then I would have to "install" a new ROM. Simple question: Why do I have to do these things? Why dont' they get it right from the beginning? Don't get me wrong, I am a technology enthusiast and I am sure I will manage to set up the phone the way I want. A number of users out there will do the same thing. However, is this platform one that non-enthusiasts would find user-friendly?
Look at all those skins and modding. Really cool. And the moment you press a button on your really cool new Today plugin, an ungly Windows application will pop up.
I hope that my criticism will be received well here! I like the phone, Windows is cool on it, but I think Microsoft has quite some way to go in order to make their platform really simple to use and user-friendly (think iPhone for example, my parents could use that, but I am quite sure if I show them my phone, they will not know how to make a a phonecall with it!)
In many ways some requirements are contradictory: Being user-friendly means you may have to hide settings, having your platform run on a variety of hardware means you cut corners here and there. Hopefully Microsoft will get it right with version 7 and 8, screenshots look quite good.
As for HTC... They lost a little bit of their credibility with a couple of issues for me. First the sound issue with the french rom which was initially denied and then fixed by people in this forum, then of course the drivers issue. I intend to make good use of this cool phone and customise it to my needs, it just takes time.
For your information, I find these applications useful:
Coreplayer (obviously!)
TouchPal keyboard works good for me
WKTask (and get rid off that default task switcher)
MyMobiler installs on your PC and a little "daemon-service" on your phone, (which you can disable). Then it allows you to control your phone from your desktop.
PocketCM did not particularly appeal to me, so I removed it
FunContact was cool, and loved it. Unfortunately, two things were not so good:
a) Splash screen and loading time
b) sometimes it made my phone freeze
Thanks for reading this (long) post,
Michael
Good post...Here are my impressions as well.
I used to carry a Palm Tx and a Motorala SLVR. I have been looking for the most ideal device to "do it all", PDA, phone (quad band gsm, tri band umts), wifi, and gps. There was nothing realy that appealing on the market until I read about the HTC Touch Cruise.
I read about people's complaints about the "driver" issues and hardware acceleration, and decided to take the risk and bought the phone from a gsm seller online. The phone was unbranded and did not have any stupid carrier proprietary software.
For the most part, I am very happy with the Touch Cruise. I have dumped the palm pda and the slvr, and have not looked back.
I just spent the last 2 weeks traveling to UK (London), Germany (Frankfurt), and Italy (Padova). As a mobile phone, the Touch Cruise functioned flawlessly and had 3G connections where they were available. Couldn't have asked for better features out of a "world" phone.
The TomTom GPS also ran quite well (Western Europe maps). Had to drive alot in Frankfurt and never got lost. Even traffic reports were right on the money.
As for a PDA, it blows the Palm syncing and calendar features out of the water. I used to be a Palm pilot only person, but Palm has become a dinasaur in their attutude to features and interface. The pocket pc has in my opinion surpassed them.
As a portable media device, it does kind of ok . Core Media Player is a must install, microsoft's media players still suck and are not usable and dont support all codecs. This device is not really ideal for video in my opinion. You have to re-encode videos to QVGA for ppc level quality, then video will play fine. You cant simply take a wmv file and dump it on the device to view, it wont work. As for music/mp3's, it works great. I got on a 10 hour flight from UK to US, and used it play music and games, and still had 40% battery charge left over and used an hour of GPS on the way home, with 20% left over.
In all fairness, the HTC could run a little faster, but I blame Microsoft and HTC for hogging up the cpu and not using hardware acceleration.
Since media (video) is not high on my list of required features, I am quite happy with the HTC Touch Cruise.
darkazally, I tend to agree with you really...
I guess if one did not have such a device before or had a really old one, then HTC Cruise is really super. On the other hand I can see certain people's frustration with Cruise. It is mostly people who owned 3 or 4 PDAs before and were probably expecting to be blown away by its specs; I kind of sypathise with them....
I read in an article written by someone at Microsoft, that companies tend to overload Windows with their own propriatory software and then the whole experience goes downwards. He mentioned that for the next versions of windows mobile, they intend to post stricter requirements just because of this situation.
As I also read in these forums, people who got their devices from O2 (just to mention a single company), seem to have more issues with HTC's performance...
I enjoy using the phone everyday and I am in the process of customising it to my needs, though it takes some time!
Uhhh mymobiler is amazing thanks for posting that! That is frickin sweet!
Great review, I tend to agree.
As far as PIM Management, I came from using two devices, a slim panasonic phone and a Xircom Rex 6000 PDA in the early part of this decade (circa 2001), like you I converged them into a Sony Ericsson phone (T610>T616) which had limited capabilities and lacked a lot of features my Rex had. In 2006, I got my first Windows Mobile smartphone, a Qtek 8310 (HTC Tornado), and now I have the HTC Touch Cruise.
Ever since getting into Windows Mobile, I thought that HTC/Microsoft had delivered great functionality, but poor usability and way too much lag for such high powered devices. Take for instance the settings panel. There are probably over 8 programs (4+networking icons, 3+ button config icons, ect) in there that only have one check box, when I'm sure HTC/Microsoft could very easily put them into one or two easy to use program with a Help feature.
But at the end of the day, I don't care if no one can use my device as long as I understand it. Additional consolation is provided in the fact that this phone looks so damned sexy
My Own impression
First of all, I'm new here & let me introduce my self...
I'm Richard & i'm from Indonesia.
I've waited for +3 months, before I decided to buy HTC Touch Cruise.
My other candidate are Atom Life & Nokia N82.
Soon (2 days) after my pal (who own a PDA shop) introduce me to Touch Cruise, I bought it
First impression is luxury.
Second impression........Windows Mobile sucks......
I have done hard reset for 4 times now....due to mis configure the registry....
I've done quite intensive test on my Touch Cruise, including Video,Audio,GPS,3G & Internet,Battery life & Applications.
This is my score (0-10):
1. Stability : 3 -> Typical Windows product
2. Looks : 9
3. Dimension : 8
4. Features : 8
5. Usability : 8
6. User Friendliness : 6
7. Battery Life : 7
Average score : 7
The Driver issue doesn't bothered me yet, so I'm very pleased with my new Touch Cruise
NOTE:
FYI,try not to uninstall anything from your TC.
Microsoft Windows product tends to leave "garbage" into the Registry & it will slow down your TC.
Choose wisely before installing & if you have to uninstall,search & delete any leftover inside the registry.
d4rkkn16ht said:
1. Stability : 3 -> Typical Windows product
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's wrong with stability? I'd have to agree that it is probably not the best device overall, but I didn't have a single stability issue with it. Maybe, you've got a defective one?
You know, there are certain lag things that I don't think are due to video drivers. I mentioned this in another thread "Why the lag" but I used to have a Cingular 8525 and supposedly that device had video drivers. It still lagged with a phone skin when you hit the phone button. Rotating the screen was still slow. I hate little things that lag like that. it should be smooth navigation / interface.
The device doesn't have a cohesive feel to it when we have to customize the **** out of it to get it to work the way we want to. You're right when we make a today screen look good then all the underlying apps are ugly windows apps. Your transparency issue, that can only be done from within the Windows picture viewer not the HTC photo viewer. You need to install your own video player. The HTC video browser app only shows videos with certain extensions. It's like you have to have a specific app for every little thing and then it feels like there isn't a streamlined feel to the device.
I gotta give credit to HTC for trying to improve the interface with their apps, the Windows interface is archaic. It's just the combo of the 2 doesn't allow for a polished interface.
hambola said:
The device doesn't have a cohesive feel to it when we have to customize the **** out of it to get it to work the way we want to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On the other hand, thanks to HTC for a platform that allows us to do so and even greater kudos to all the xda-developer wizards who make it possible (and relatively easy for the most part).
Not enough can be said for xda. Although I'm a new poster I've been reading these forums for about a year now. Helped me out greatly with the 8525 and is proving to be helpful with the Cruise.
>You're right when we make a today screen look good then all the underlying apps are ugly windows apps.
I am happy we agree on this, I just wish it had a little bit of the Apple touch on it, that's all....
>Your transparency issue, that can only be done from within the Windows picture viewer not the HTC photo viewer.
All I wanted is a kind of minimal interface, so I can set my own wallpaper and not have it hidden by the huge HTC today plug-in. I have installed spb shell for a couple of weeks now and it looks great. I also discovered the HTC Home Customiser which looks cool, so, that's nice too.
>You need to install your own video player...
I think HTC should actually write a very generous paycheck for the people that developed CorePlayer. Without that one, Cruise would be a *little* bit of a disaster.
Overall I guess Windows is a versatile OS with lots and lots of space of customisation and at the end you do get it right, it just takes a lot of patience and resets to get there...
rev3nant said:
What's wrong with stability? I'd have to agree that it is probably not the best device overall, but I didn't have a single stability issue with it. Maybe, you've got a defective one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After some intensive test, I found some irritating bug that caused stability issues.
Quick Menu sometimes disappeared after running several applications.
System Hang at random cause.
Some system settings cannot be changed even if you've already change it.
Redundancy in Registry Entry that can cause stability issues if you change the entry. (not considered a bug if you don't change it)
and some other (not quite sure yet...)
Have you tried a different ROM?
I bought my wife a blackberry bold this past weekend and all I can say is WOW. That thing has WAAAY more features (and settings) than my G1. And don't worry, I unlocked the phone so my wife can use it with our T-mobile accounts. In setting up this device, I've come to realize that a LOT of these features should be implemented into other devices, namely, the G1.
Here's a short list
1. Power-based settings (i.e. brightness changes when plugged in and on battery). A very BASIC feature.
2. Hiding folders in the music player. Blackberry gives the options to NOT include certain folders when searching for music. When I listen to music, I don't want to hear 50 ringtones.
3. User Customizable Profiles. Silent, Vibrate, Work, Home...Why not?
4. Alarm based auto-power on. If i set an alarm, and my phone is powered, but not on, it should be able to power on and wake me up. This is a GREAT feature for people that rely on alarms.(like myself)
5. Bluetooth profiles. I'm not new to mobile devices, so I know this is something they're currently working on. But come on...all we have is the headset profile. What come of lame-o **** is that? a2dp and wireless file access would be great, as well as phonebook access and callid and sms info for car kits...
There's more that I'm forgetting, but that's the gist of it. I realize that we're all technically beta testers at this point, but they should have released a more polished product to the masses. It would have helped their word-of-mouth sales greatly. Look at all the vista negativity. I've been using it without any problems since it was RTM, but people hate it because 'they heard' it has tons of problems. The average joe isn't going to want the g1 because 'they heard' it can't do this, or it can't do that. I personally love the device, and it has great potential, but t-mo and google may have shot themselves in the foot on that front.
InGeNeTiCs said:
Here's a short list
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not trying to be an Android apologist here, but let's run through your list.
1. Nothing exists, but it would take no more than an hours work to code something in Java to handle this.
2. Create a folder named ringtones in the root of the sd card. Nothing in there will be parsed by the default Music Player app.
3. Locale is probably the most popular app to handle this. Get it on the Market.
4. If your phone is in standby (short press red button), Alarm Clock can wake Android up. A more advanced alarm app is Klaxon. Again, get on Market.
5. A2DP support is pending.
No hardware is released perfect. Some imperfections are worse than others, and it's really also a subjective matter. If that above list seems problematic, consider that a competing product has no copy and pasting or support for background apps (making IM apps useless). In that kind of light maybe the fact that your G1 doesn't brighten the screen when you plug it in doesn't seem so bad anymore.
Honestly though if the choice between Blackberry and G1 is a list of periphery features rather than BIS vs Gmail, then you're completely missing the point imo.
Might I also point out that Blackberry OS (and Symbian and WinMo and iPhone) are all very mature OSes. Blackberry being the most mature, and it clearly shows in it's stability and simplistic ease-of-use. The iPhone just has a ton of money backing it, so it's no surprise that it has some superior features, even though its only 18 months old.
Windows is windows... 'nuff said.
Symbian has the backing of Nokia, so obviously it's well developed too.
All of these OSes were CRAP when they first came out. Google has plenty of money backing this project (I hope...) so I plan on giving them another 6 months to work out some of these basic problems before I go back to my good ol' Canadian-made Blackberry.
By the way a new app called simply "Power Manager" has appeared on the Market. Here's the description:
This application is similar to the power mgt apps available on laptops. It allows you to quickly view and change the settings of your phone depending on power states (e.g. turn off the GPS when the battery level drops below 30%, lower the brightness of the screen when on battery power, etc). It also maintains battery stats.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just downloaded the battery program and it does address some of my concerns. It just sucks that all of these features have to be added as apps. Not having root access on an opensource device seems really stupid. It's like going to a ferrari dealership giving away free cars. Free cars! BUT....we took the engines out of them. Enjoy! What the hell are you supposed to do with that?
We've got an awesome platform to work with, almost all the source to create anything we want, but no access. It's beyond lame.
And far as the blackberry thing goes, I'm in NO WAY a BB fanboy. I've never owned one, and I they're a pain in my ass because my clients buy them thinking 'they just work' with MS exchange, when they need the enterprise client which my company doesn't want to shell out the cash for. So they get pissed at me when I tell them it doesn't 'fully' integrate. My frustrations aside, I merely used BB as an example of a device that had features that should be available on the G1.
And I think the whole alarm thing got misread. I realize that the phone will 'wake up' when the alarm activates. But if my phone is completely powered off, it will not turn itself on to activate the alarm. While this is not a totally necessary feature, and will probably be rarely used, it's very important for someone who RELIES on their alarms for scheduling purposes. I usually shut my phone off at night (I have customers in several distant timezones), but I can't do that if I want to use the alarm. I could obviously buy an alarm clock, but I don't see why the g1 can't do what another phone can.
No offense but bad analogy... It is hard to find the correct analogy... I guess it would be buying a hand gun, that you couldn't turn the safety off LOL Remember root is taken away for protection of users who don't know what it is. And as of right now we only know root is taken away on RC30... maybe when 1.0 comes out it will be available. Maybe they are working on a GUI to allow you to enable root. We have a long ways to go so I wouldn't say root is gone forever.
Side note: for your users with BB devices. I run Scalix on linux. Funambol bridges the gap for my users. I think that they even have an exchqange connector. Funambol is also availbe in the market place on the g1.
I have no problem with the actual integration process, the company just doesn't want to pay for it. We have people using windows mobile devices with no problems. I give the device recommendations, but they always come back with blackberries thinking it's the same thing. It's just frustrating. I'm venting. Sorry.
Hi all,
In the past three years, we've witnessed greatly increased competition among smartphones. Android and iPhone are considered by some to be the two most serious contenders, and both have attracted many new users who migrated from the other platform. I myself was a devoted winmo user, and had used every generation of winmo phones/PDA since the late 90's. When iPhone was first released, I did not take it seriously at all, because there were so many limitations and the initial phone did not support third party applications. I made the change from winmo to iPhone only in 2009 after a rather detailed comparison exercise between winmo and iPhone. I've been more than happy with my decision and the jailbroken phone. However, technology does not stay still, and there has been lots of changes especially in the hardware end and the entry of Google into the smartphone business. Personally, I'm greately tempted by the potential of hugh screen size offered by handsets such as the HTC supersonic, and would like to understand if my smartphone experience could be enhanced even more by switching to Android. I also think that this topic area would appear on the forum for every single Android phone, and it might be good to centralise the discussion to get the maximum input possible. Hence this thread.
RULE FOR THID THREAD:
Rule 1: General Courtesy:
I would like to state that this is not a thread for any basher or haters of Google or Apple. If you're one of them, please leave and preach your anti-evil corporation philosophy elsewhere. This is also not meant to be a thread to try to convert any Google phone user to iPhone or vise versa, so while I recognise it's going to be hard, please try your best to stay objective and refrain from imposing your opinion as the only possible logical choice on others. I plead that all you all observe this, so as to get to the end of all the discussion and research as efficiently as possible.
Note: While it is not within my power to remove trouble makers, I will not be responding to any troll on this thread.
Rule 2: Discuss one area at a time, with suitable heading in the title of your post.
This thread may become very long, and people interested in finding out specific comparison should not be made to read through every word in every post. So, let's always describe in the title of your post what your points pertain to.
For now, the title descriptions to be used are: (If you feel the need to have additional topic area for comparision, please let me know so that it can be added here)
- Cut and paste design
- Multitasking design
- hardware button design
- multimedia capabilities
- Touchscreen technology
- Storage capability
- Processor and graphic capability
- Market place
- Application software
- Vendor support
- Firmware upgrade
- Battery life and design
- Camera and video
- Best GPS software (I feel that this is important enough to warrant distinct segregation)
- Theme and UI customization capabiilty
- User interface of applications
- User interface of desktop/sprinboard/program launcher/widget/task switcher
- Application defaults
- Notification handling
- Best web browsing application
- Global search
- Speech recognition
- Device management (backup, restore, syncing, etc)
- Side loading of applications
- File Management and Access
- Using it as a business phone
Rule 3: FULL potential of the phone. You can tweak, customize, as long as the procedure could reasonably be expected of an ordinary user.
Since this thread is mean to help END user choose the BEST phones in the market, the capability that you discuss must come from application programs that has already been made available to the public rather than something that can be done but requires programming knowledge to achieve it. Similar, it. A jailbroken/rooted phone's capability can be discussed as long as the jailbreak tool is available and could reasonably be performed by an average user without hacking skill to personally do the hacking themselves. Also, since my intention is mainly to find out which should be my next phone, we should base it on OS4.0 in iPhone, iPhone HD, and the best possible Android hardware likely to be available in the next few months, and I assume this is HTC Supersonic.
Therefore, no "the phone is crippled out of the box" type of debates please.
Rule 4: Focus on describing the capability rather then merely state your opinion on your preference without backing it up. (For this reason, I'll only draw up a comparision chart after giving everyone the chance to state all the known facts.). Try to state the name of the program/utility that you would use to achieve that capability. I think this would be highly educational.
Enough rules for now. Let's see how it goes.
Thank you for participating on this thread.
Cheers.
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Cut and Paste design
Android
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Please correct me if I'm wrong, my understanding is that the cut and paste design is a little inconsistent depending on the OEM. I've personally played with a Samsung Galaxy, and noted two different cut and paste design:
1) Press and hold. Unfortunately, there is no magnifying glass pop up to indicate the position of the cursor. You have then to use the joystick(not sure if this is what they call it) to position it.
2) I vaguely remember at other place, method 1 is not supported. You have to use the hardware button , and select an item there in order to do copy and paste.
Recently, I had a chance to look at a video showing the cut and paste in one of the HTC Android phones, and noted a third method, very similar to iPhone, but the magnifying glass is square rather than round.
I also got the impression that copy and paste is not supported on non-enterable field. I'm seeking users with expertise to correct/enhance this piece of information.
Edit: See post #71 for some more precise description on how cut and paste works in Android, described by dsymbol.
iPhone
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Press and hold will provide the handle to select the text for copying. This pretty much work across all the places, including email, webpages, on both enterable and non-enterable fields.
Edit: However, there ARE also some rare exceptions where inconsistencies have been found, mainly arising from software created before iPhone introduced cut and paste in version 3.0 I think. An example that comes to my mind is an office document application called QuickOffice, which was around prior to OS3.0 I think. Here, to select text in the word document, instead of holding your finger down, you have to double tap to reveal the handle for text selection, you then press an icon at the bottom to copy or cut. This is quite different from the usual methods used by applications using the Apple's standard API. Most office documents applications including Office2 (It is actually Office square, with a little 2 at the top right of the word Office) and Document to Go are using the familiar cut and paste used everywhere else.
Multimedia capability
A. Using hardware button to start/pause/skip/repeat song and change volume without headset
- iPhone: Yes, using a Cydia application called VolumeButton Extender
- Android: hardware button can only control volume and not pause/play/skip/repeat.
B. Using supplied headset to start/pause/skip/repeat song and control volume
- iPhone: Yes.
- Android: It can start/pause/skip/repeat with the phone in the pocket, but any volume change must be done on the device itself.
C: Volume change increment:
- iPhone: 16 volume increment, allowing you have have the volume closest to your need, e.g, listening music while trying to get to sleep without being kept awake.
- Android: 8 only, therefore offering less precise volume level for the user. Not sure if this is device specific or generic across all Android phones.
D: Playlist combining audio and video files and playing video files with phone shut off.
- iPhone: Yes. In order to play video with screen completely shut off, switch off the phone, and on the lock screen start the music player, then switch off.
- Android: It is possible to play music video with the screen shut off, but you cannot combine video and audio in the playlist. In fact the default music player does not play video - only audio.
I invite Android users to help to beef up or correct information pertaining to rooted Android phone's capabilities.
Multitasking
A: Extend of multitasking for third party applications.
Android: All applications seems to be kept alive regardless of the situations.
iPhone: If you use the Backgrounder, all applications and processes could be kept alive. If you use the smart multitasking from Apple itself, only processes that needs to be kept alive are kept alive. Such processes include GPS function, audio streaming, file upload/download where the service must be completed without interuption. Apple believes that this smart multitasking is the key to battary life and performance, so have chosen this implementation instead of what Steve Job called an easy but wrong method of "full multitasking". Application's "state" is saved, so users need not exit an application when switching to another one.
B: Methods of task switching by showing active tasks and choosing it.
Android: Menu button to show the most recently used task, which could be different from active task. Hence a newly boot up Android might not show the phone application although it is already active. This is the only method for switching to other running application without going to the program launcher.
iPhone: Many options exist to show active tasks and choosing which to switch to. Method of invoking could be one of the 19 ways provided by the Activator(methods include single click of home key, double click of home key, press and hold the home key, shake the device, double press the sleep button quickly, press and hold the sleep button, slide into the screen from below, slide into the screen from bottom left, slide into the screen from bottom right, pinch the springboard, spread the springboard, double tap the status bar, tap and hold the status bar, swipe down the status bar, swipe left on the status bar, swipe right on the status bar, tap on volume heads up display, press volume down then up, press volume up then down.)
Kirikae: list the active task. You can kill the application or switch to it there.
Circuitous: List the icons of the active task. You can kill the application or switch to it there.
Multiflow: Display and switch to task Palm Pre style. You may close the application by swiping it off, among many available methods.
ProSwitcher: Display and switch to task Palm Pre style. You may close the application by swiping it off, among many available methods.
There are others doing more or less the same thing which I would not bother listing on. You just have to choose a method that suits your own preference and personality.
With OS4.0, double click of home button will show the most recent task on the dock and switch to the application there. You might close the application by holding the icon until it wobbles and press the deletion badge.
C: Going directly to the next and previous application without bringing up a list of task:
Android: You may use the back button to go the previous application. Going to the next application is not supported by one click/touch operation.
iPhone: Using Circuiutous, you may use any of the 19 methods mentioned above to go to the next and previous application. Some people find it extremely intuitive to swipe the taskbar left and right to go to next or previous application, similar to the way pictures are changed. You could of course also use hardware button if that's what you prefer.
I invite Android users to correct/beef up any unmentioned methods.
boi youre wastin your time,
pick up your iphone and go to hell with it...
steve,
It would be nice and easier to just have a comparison table like the one Sethos II made.
gogol said:
steve,
It would be nice and easier to just have a comparison table like the one Sethos II made.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the suggestion. My intention was to draw that up only after all the facts are known, rather than making biased conclusion without the benefit of complete information. It will be included later. That's why I've reserved a few empty posts to do just that.
Battery life and design
A. Removable battary - This is something that I cherish quite a lot during my winmo days. I liked the ability to carry along spare battaries before I board the plane for a long trip for example, where power source is an issue.
Android - YES!
iPhone - No. There are alternative portable power packs but they tend to make the phone bulkier. There are also portable chargers, but these solution is just not as good as having user replaceable battaries.
File Manager and Access
A. File Manager
iPhone:
Using an application like iFile from Cydia, users could see all the directories and subdirectories, and files in all directories. It also allows the files to be copied, deleted, moved. Clicking on a picture would display the picture, clicking on a music file will play the music file.
However, if you're trying to do a file attachment on a forum like here, it cannot be done.
Android: Same weakness due to not having a native file manager???
B. Ability for all applications to use the same directory?
iPhone:
Generally there is no such capability, although there are exception (e.g. The music player dTune could play music files downloaded with the Music Meow application). Therefore, if I have more than one spreadsheet programs in an iPhone, these different applications could not update the same spreadsheet file because the file has to be stored in the application's own directory. iFile of course could access any directory and display files in any directory.
Android:
Any such limitation? Which are some of the popular spreadsheet applications for example? Could you specify the location of the saved files to be anywhere?
Side loading of applications
Sideloading allows users to install programs which were not from the officially sactioned market place:
Android: - Yes.
iPhone - Yes. Non-programmer type users could install applications from the Cydia store. These are often program that Apple won't approve, but could also contain applications removed from the App Store such as porn applications.
Multimedia capabilities
A. Video playback test.
I invite anyone to provide links of videos for testing purposes to compare the two phone's playback capability.
For now, I would like to get you guys to refer to this thread and see if the video play by just clicking on the link. If not, are you able to download it and play smoothly, without pause or frame loss? Without the audio/video going out of sync? Details about this video is in post #7. The file is made for the screen resolution of HD2.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=645610
iPhone:
Yes. Without conversion, it plays smoothly although the video is not made for the iPhone screen resolution.
See youtube videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAGqKYlSnHA - this is playing after downloading the file
Here is the video test when played directly rather than downloded first.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C39CHtqOAso
Android:
Does it play?
Did I miss something or there's nothing about, say, business capabilities - Exchange and Office support? Don't know how to label the post, but here's the question:
On the iPhone, I know there are office package(s) available, but here's what I want to know - how do you transfer files there? Do you get a documents folder or do you need to look for a directory with one of those cryptic names? Also, how does it handle email attachments? Can I save a ppt I receive for later use in the office program?
With regard to Exchange - can I have full support that will include push for Tasks, Email, Calendar and Contacts? Not push for the latter three and manual sync for Tasks?
Best GPS software
iPhone:
Probably no single vendor can justifiably claim that they have the best GPS in every country. TomTom is the best in Australia (I'll justify that assessment later), but it is probably not as good in say Navigon in US, if we base it on sales statistics. The major choices are:
TomTom
Navigon
iGO
NDrive
Sygic
M6 (which I understand is the best in Asean)
Copilot
Each user may have a different idea of what constitute the best. Some value live traffics, some speed warning, some completeness of road speed information for speed monitoring, some warning upon approaching schools, some the ability to perform google search in addition to POI search, some 3D realistic view, some music control within the application, some intelligent routing that considers traffic congestions among other things, some text to speech, some multitouch user interface for map zooming in and out, some completeness of safety camera database, some map currency.
In Australia, my own preference is TomTom. It has extremely nice user interface, google search , very complete speed information for all roads, map is quite up to date for most places, it incorporates pinch and zoom, warn you when appraoching safety camera and when you overspeed, allows easy control of music without leaving the application, has 3D realistic view for major highway exits and intersections, decent text to speech option. After receiving phone calls, it automatically resume with the most up-to-seconds GPS coordinate and location without waiting for signal. If the call is terminated by the other party there is no need to touch the phone for the resume to be completed.
Sygic also uses the same map, but the UI is bad and reminds me of the winmo style, although the UI is still way better than winmo type of GPS.
Navigon, Copilot, iGo, NDrive all uses maps with rather incomplete speed information in Australia.
Android GPS ??
Which is the best in Australia and what can it do?
Note: I use Android, so if it sounds like I am biased, it's because I am (Although I tried to stay unbias). I removed some categories because I felt that either I did not know the answer (Rare) or that I didn't feel like taking the time to write one up. These are NOT definitive answers based on potential, this is purely from stock functionality (With touches on their equivalent of being rooted sometimes). Why did I do a stock comparison? This because 1) That's what most people will use and 2) The limits of both OS' when rooted/jailbroken are almost non-existent
- Cut and paste design
iPhone: Hold over text, magnifying glass comes up, release to get the two bars then drag them to copy. This is pretty straight-forward.
Android: Method 1- Hold on text entry place, then choose "Select All" or "select Text"
Method 2- If your device has a keyboard, hold the shift button and select text (Works in most places)
Method 3 (Limited to 2.1 sense Users)- Same as iPhone, but it has a few more options than cut, copy, paste.
- Multitasking design
iPhone; Currently not available for stock and I have no experience of it with a kailbroken iPhone
Android: Android multi-tasks without tweaking. It can hold as many app in memory as RAM allows (It will only kill processes when the processes kill themselves or when it runs out of memory, in which case it kills the oldest ones). To see a list of RECENTLY running processes, hold the home button. This will bring up a list of the last 6 used (Obviously it's not practical to show the 50 or so the Nexus can have running at the same time).
- hardware button design
iPhone: Home button which is multi-functional (Home, Double tap will have different functions depending on users choice/firmware), (Camera Button?), Volume Rocker, and Sleep/Wake Button.
Android: All Android phones MUST include at least a Home Button (also multi-functional, but not as much so), a Menu Button, a Back Button, and as far as I know an End Call Button. They also usually include a camera button and a volume rocker.
- multimedia capabilities
Not quite sure what we want here, but if it is how the experience is, the iPhone wins pretty heavily. Android can do the same exact things, but it looks ugly while doing it. Sense Users have the best form of Music app in Htc Music, but I'll try to stick to stock for now.
- Storage capability
iPhone: Whichever size you buy is what you're stuck with for life (16 or 32gb in 3GS)
Android: Normally have limited internal memory (Action of phone manufacturer) which means many apps may not be installed (Not a problem as most Android apps are under 1mb). Sdcards are used, give an "unlimited" amount of external storage.
- Processor and graphic capability
iPhone: Pretty sure it's 600 mhz, correct me if wrong
Android: So far we're at 1ghz, need I say more?
- Market place
iPhone: Don't own one so someone else will need to cover this
Android: Mention what you need to know and one of us Android users will tell you.
- Application software
Not quite sure what we mean by this.
- Vendor support
Both operating systems is for as long as the hardware capabilities don't force them to stop supporting it.
- Firmware upgrade
iPhone: Upgrade through iTunes, you may not get all features in the firmware update.
Android: OTA updates, if you're getting the update you usually get everything in it.
- Battery life and design
iPhone: No removable battery, and from what I've heard, battery life sucks.
Android: Removable Batteries, from what I've heard, the Nexus can go a day and a half no problem. The Nexus is thinner than iPhone, has a bigger screen, looks sexy but the iPhone would win in this department (But the plastic backs kind of kill it on the iPhone for me)
- Best GPS software (I feel that this is important enough to warrant distinct segregation)
iPhone: Third-Party apps, not sure which is best
Android: The Google Navigation is by far the best I have ever used
- Theme and UI customization capabiilty
iPhone: Out of the box, you can change the lockscreen wallpaper and move icons around.
Android: Wallpaper, Homescreens, can replace anything if you don't like it (Most apps will allow you to use that instead of the stock app equivalent).
- User interface of applications:
iPhone: In my opinion, they are all a little stale because they use the SAME exact interface (But that's the point of a user interface).They use the bar at top, bar at bottom for navigation, it's all equivalent to the stock apps
Android: They vary a little more in UI but they all are the same on thie inside. Press Menu to view options, they all have the grey bar (Mostly because this is integrated into the Android framework)
- User interface of desktop/sprinboard/program launcher/widget/task switcher
iPhone:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Android:
- Notification handling
iPhone: Annoying popups, 'nuf said
Android: Status bar, pull down to see all notifications
- Best web browsing application
Not really a fair comparison as iPhone has two (Opera or Safari)
- Global search
iPhone: Can search all device files from homescreen
Android: Same as iPhone but the web search is also integrated
- Speech recognition
iPhone: Voice Over, For Music and...? purposes
Android: Voice Search by holding the search button, Voice Dialer by holding send button, voice keyboard in all text entry fields
- Side loading of applications
Clarification?
- File Management and Access
iPhone: Not sure
Android: Have full access to the all partitions other than the system partition (AFAIK) without root.
Ok so here is my verdict on iPhone Vs ANDROID
When iPhone was release i was an Apple fanboy form that very time, i paid heavily for iPhones, they were like life to me, i have every iPhone to date and the first android i got was the G1, on using it i could only say one thing, it is the future and it is proved itself day by day
Experiences
1. Jailbroken iPhone
I love how u can do almost anything but nothing in the iPhone, only thing an iPhone drools over is apps and apps and nothing else. iPhone has an edge over android in just apps. For everything else u are crippled and for anything u want to do u ought to have a computer. Battery life is not what i would love and it has a boring interface good enough for 50 year old person who can just understand to dialer and dial
Android
Android is still immature, one thing u would hate about android is that it updates acc. to devices, it will add a feature only when a device is made to have the feature. other things Android is the most customizable OS ever made in the history of smartphones and mobiles. It has a clean interface if u understand it and by far the most efficient in everything it does. You shouldnt be surprised when it updates itself to become more efficient. iPhone revolutionized the designing but android revolutionized software. Android what i say is a complete OS, it just like a mini computer, to use it u dont need to have a computer, u can do everything on the phone itself, u want to add some music, videos anything do it on the phone itself, u want to update, download do it on the phone itself and it is robust enough to even create websites, i created my website using my android phone and nothing else, Android has endless possibilities.
Multimedia-
u dont have to be tied to computer to do anything on android. U can use anything 3rd party if u dont like stock, 3rd party has the ability to add more stuff which is not in stock. onlu con is that u have no equalizer.
It can play more formats than iPhone, u dont need to convert and sync music, u r not tied to use the default music player. The gallery is the best one around.
Android has the most user friendly interface, what u need most is on the desktop others in the drawer. In iPhone u have to arrange every app u install, u can just move in one way, what u have on front is the same old apps icons, android u have icons, widgets and more.
iPhone has one prop and that is app android has one con that is less apps thats it. everything is editable if u r rooted, u can edit anything u want, u have the source to the platform, u can build one urself, if u know coding u can add everything and anything to it
So Android is gonna have more apps in some time and iPhone will age sooner than intended. Comparing Rooted Android to iPhone is like comparing Gold to Brick. As i already told with ur android being rooted u can add any feature urself by editing directly in the source code, and iPhone u r stuck with Cydia developers who can change how the iPhone OS functions but can only add features
vangrieg said:
Did I miss something or there's nothing about, say, business capabilities - Exchange and Office support? Don't know how to label the post, but here's the question:
On the iPhone, I know there are office package(s) available, but here's what I want to know - how do you transfer files there? Do you get a documents folder or do you need to look for a directory with one of those cryptic names? Also, how does it handle email attachments? Can I save a ppt I receive for later use in the office program?
With regard to Exchange - can I have full support that will include push for Tasks, Email, Calendar and Contacts? Not push for the latter three and manual sync for Tasks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, good point. It must be considered.
What are "business capabilities" though? I think we need to have a good list of what these are. Let start with what you already got and add some to it myself:
- Exchange support (perhaps even MULTIPLE exchange support) for address, calendar, tasks, and email.
- Ability to edit and create office documents with reasonably complete functions in say excel spreadsheet.
- Saving attachments in email, editing them, and resending them out.
- Presence of client applications that works together with enterprise software such as SAP.
- Ability to remote wipe data from lost phones
- Ability to install corporate applications over the air
- Conference call or even video conferencing to substitute face to face meetings
- Printing of documents (e.g. customers require receipts, written quotation, etc)
- Ability to prevent data from physically removed from the phone via MicroSDHC card or alternatively ability to enforce highly reliable data encryption on data stored there.
- Ability to enforce use of password on phone?
- Ability to PREVENT it from becoming so much fun that employees spend all their time on facebook, chats, and games??? (Hence they would prefer RIM phones??)
Anyone else can think of what the corporate IT people might look for in choosing a corporate phone? Or is it more of matter of "the boss loves his iPhone, so we have no choice but to allow it?"
Thanks for this.
charnsingh_online said:
I love how u can do almost anything but nothing in the iPhone, only thing an iPhone drools over is apps and apps and nothing else. iPhone has an edge over android in just apps. For everything else u are crippled
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you comprehensively list in which areas iPhone is crippled? Sometimes people think that a phone can't do certainly thing, but it could be due to lack of awareness and knowledge of the capability. Thats' one of the reason for having this thread - to learn from each other. To get maximum benefit from each other's experience, let's keep our mind open to new information.
charnsingh_online said:
and for anything u want to do u ought to have a computer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? This is new to me. I would like to offer a different perspective on this.
I know iPhone lets you install new programs and updates , buy music/video/movies, edit photo taken, compile musics, and make songs of your own, send files to another phone without going through a computer.
There are only three things that strictly requires computer:
a. Install new firmware and perform restore, which is once in a while event that I would rather use my PC anyway in view of how large the file is and how expensive my 3G data quota would cost me.
b. Performing backup and restore. This would also include backing up application data such as that for eWallet, GolfCard, PocketMoney, etc.
c. Syncing to outlook
You may see the need for a computer to do this as a negative, but I personally see that as a positive. Because with this I have the ability to backup my entire device and if my phone requires a restore/hard reset/or replacement, I can recover every applications including the data quickly. It is not practical to do backup of such large amount of data over the air. It is also not assuring from security viewpoint to keep any of your phone data in the cloud. The only place to keep them is your own PC.
charnsingh_online said:
Battery life is not what i would love
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In terms of length of a single battery, I really do not have any complaint against iPhone. It is more or less the same situation with the other HTC phones which I owned. It varies depending on usage pattern, brightness level, how tempted you are to look at the beautiful screen every 5 minutes, whether you leave location service/bluetooth/3G/wifi running, the strength of the cell signal, etc. Frankly, I think it's hard to say which battery is better due to the difficulties in measurement, different age of the batteries being compared, etc.
The only complain I had was the fact that it's non-replaceable.
charnsingh_online said:
it has a boring interface
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I assume you're talking about the home page here?
Have you used home page replacement products such as Overboard or Pogoplank? Or themes.
charnsingh_online said:
Android is still immature, one thing u would hate about android is that it updates acc. to devices, it will add a feature only when a device is made to have the feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't quite understand what you mean by "it updates acc. to devices" or "will add a feature only when a device to made to have a feature"- would you mind clarify this point please? Has this got anything to do with the "fragmentation" problem that they talked about?
charnsingh_online said:
other things Android is the most customizable OS ever made in the history of smartphones and mobiles.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would you mind explain in a little more details on what sorts of customization are possible?
charnsingh_online said:
It has a clean interface if u understand it and by far the most efficient in everything it does.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How so?
charnsingh_online said:
is a complete OS, it just like a mini computer, to use it u dont need to have a computer, u can do everything on the phone itself, u want to add some music, videos anything do it on the phone itself, u want to update, download do it on the phone itself and it is robust enough to even create websites, i created my website using my android phone and nothing else, Android has endless possibilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you of the impression that adding music, videos, updates, download are not possible on iPhone and that everything has to be done on the PC first?
charnsingh_online said:
u dont have to be tied to computer to do anything on android. U can use anything 3rd party if u dont like stock, 3rd party has the ability to add more stuff which is not in stock. onlu con is that u have no equalizer.
It can play more formats than iPhone, u dont need to convert and sync music, u r not tied to use the default music player. The gallery is the best one around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is this different from iPhone again?
charnsingh_online said:
Android has the most user friendly interface, what u need most is on the desktop others in the drawer. In iPhone u have to arrange every app u install, u can just move in one way, what u have on front is the same old apps icons, android u have icons, widgets and more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you explain in what way it has the most user friendly interface? Here you're talking about the desktop/program launcher. So you said that the frequently used programs can be kept on the desktop along with widgets, etc, and then you can have "drawer" to contain the other programs, right?
Please tell me when you're in the middle of a program and wish to start a new program inside one of the drawers, what is the procedure to start that program. Is it 1)Menu to go to desktop 2) Swipe to the place where drawer is located 3) click on the drawer 4) touch the icon of the drawer?
charnsingh_online said:
iPhone has one prop and that is app android has one con that is less apps thats it. everything is editable if u r rooted, u can edit anything u want, u have the source to the platform, u can build one urself, if u know coding u can add everything and anything to it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
charnsingh_online said:
As i already told with ur android being rooted u can add any feature urself by editing directly in the source code, and iPhone u r stuck with Cydia developers who can change how the iPhone OS functions but can only add features
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may or may not be right here. I don't know the technical aspect of the two platform to judge. However, for the purpose of this thread, as mentioned in post 1, we're only looking at the capability of the phone from the viewpoint of the masses of ordinary users out there, not the OS programmer. So, if you don't mind, I'd skip this. But just for curiosity, do you yourself modify the Android OS now by editing in the source code of Android OS?
charnsingh_online said:
So Android is gonna have more apps in some time and iPhone will age sooner than intended.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope so. I hope to see TomTom for Android ASAP.
it is interesting to follow the hype of WP7. i am not a fan of 'early adopter' idea. I am looking for a replacement of my good old HTC touch diamond and still searching some infos regarding WP7 from forums which received several negative feedbacks. I would like to hear from the WP7 power user how i could do the following equivalent tasks in the winmo 6.1 since i use it productively at work and rely heavily on them:
1. Excel Mobile: edit excel file either on the go or on pc to analyse the result graphically and sometimes show it to the client. a sync using mobsync would be done before switching the edit from mobile to pc or vice versa
2. Automatic Call Recorder (ACR): automatically record 2-way call conversation without pressing any button. Useful for recording phone number without taking notes (you could just replay the record many times) or recording directions given by the boss
3. GPS navigation app with offline map and rerouting function: I often lose GSM signal while driving to the clients in remote areas. rerouting is useful if i need to drive to new client which area is unfamiliar and easily to get the wrong turn :-(
4. Sync all outlook + backup SMS data: i am using Activesync for the outlook & PPCPimBackup for the sms. i can get the whole data back from the past to the the latest after the ROM is upgraded e.g. i have 3000+ text messages
5. No data in the cloud - company policy: company data is not allowed to be stored in the cloud whatever the reason. i know it is ridiculous because data could be easily taken if the mobile phone is stolen
6. File explorer: to organise all types of files in the internal storage
nope, wp7 will not fit your needs at all. I would look for a used hd2 if you want newer hardware.
budsant said:
it is interesting to follow the hype of WP7. i am not a fan of 'early adopter' idea. I am looking for a replacement of my good old HTC touch diamond and still searching some infos regarding WP7 from forums which received several negative feedbacks. I would like to hear from the WP7 power user how i could do the following equivalent tasks in the winmo 6.1 since i use it productively at work and rely heavily on them:
1. Excel Mobile: edit excel file either on the go or on pc to analyse the result graphically and sometimes show it to the client. a sync using mobsync would be done before switching the edit from mobile to pc or vice versa
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Has Excel.
2. Automatic Call Recorder (ACR): automatically record 2-way call conversation without pressing any button. Useful for recording phone number without taking notes (you could just replay the record many times) or recording directions given by the boss
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is potentially illegal.
3. GPS navigation app with offline map and rerouting function: I often lose GSM signal while driving to the clients in remote areas. rerouting is useful if i need to drive to new client which area is unfamiliar and easily to get the wrong turn :-(
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would have to buy an app for this. Google/Bing Navigation isn't offline. I don't think TeleNav is, either. Personally, I would recommend a dedicated GPS system if this is what you need. Nokia phones come with Offline Map capabilities, and there are some apps (may get released soon) which offer it. But it's not a stock function and don't expect Microsoft to offer such a thing in Bing. These things take up a ton of storage space on you device, as well.
4. Sync all outlook + backup SMS data: i am using Activesync for the outlook & PPCPimBackup for the sms. i can get the whole data back from the past to the the latest after the ROM is upgraded e.g. i have 3000+ text messages
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No ( <- forgot that important 2 letter word unintentionally) Sync via USB to outlook. ActiveSync/DeltaSync keeps everything in Sync, anyways. Dunno why anyone keeps that many texts, but Microsoft will roll out Devices.Live.com for WP7 which will allow you to do almost all of what MyPhone offered for Windows Mobile - that includes backing up text messages.
5. No data in the cloud - company policy: company data is not allowed to be stored in the cloud whatever the reason. i know it is ridiculous because data could be easily taken if the mobile phone is stolen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Company data does not get stored in the cloud. It's sync'd via the Exchange server the same way Windows Mobile, iOS, Android, and Blackberries Sync it. Windows Phone 7 supports Exchange Remote Wipe.
Your camera roll gets automatically Sync'd to SkyDrive, but why would you take uber sekret company photos on a smartphone, anyways...
6. File explorer: to organise all types of files in the internal storage
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't count on it. The OS organizes things for you into Libraries. This really isn't needed that much. I dunno why people keep asking for it when Microsoft made it pretty clear that it isn't coming. WP7 isn't the only smartphone OS that doesn't have a File Manager in it.
@ Thread Title: Productivity is subjective and depends on what the person does on his/her device. You haven't really give anyone a clue as to what you do on you device, so it's hard to tell if it'll be productive to you. All you've done was put a tacky title on yet another "this is what I want for WP7. Is it there, is it coming, why isn't it there, etc." thread.
That may sound a bit harsh. Not intentionally. But that's basically what it is.
Windows Phone 7 is way more productive than Windows Mobile, generally speaking. Anything except maybe Blackberry OS and Symbian^3 is more productive than Windows Mobile.
N8ter said:
Has Excel.
This is potentially illegal.
Would have to buy an app for this. Google/Bing Navigation isn't offline. I don't think TeleNav is, either. Personally, I would recommend a dedicated GPS system if this is what you need. Nokia phones come with Offline Map capabilities, and there are some apps (may get released soon) which offer it. But it's not a stock function and don't expect Microsoft to offer such a thing in Bing. These things take up a ton of storage space on you device, as well.
Sync via USB to outlook. ActiveSync/DeltaSync keeps everything in Sync, anyways. Dunno why anyone keeps that many texts, but Microsoft will roll out Devices.Live.com for WP7 which will allow you to do almost all of what MyPhone offered for Windows Mobile - that includes backing up text messages.
Company data does not get stored in the cloud. It's sync'd via the Exchange server the same way Windows Mobile, iOS, Android, and Blackberries Sync it. Windows Phone 7 supports Exchange Remote Wipe.
Your camera roll gets automatically Sync'd to SkyDrive, but why would you take uber sekret company photos on a smartphone, anyways...
Don't count on it. The OS organizes things for you into Libraries. This really isn't needed that much. I dunno why people keep asking for it when Microsoft made it pretty clear that it isn't coming. WP7 isn't the only smartphone OS that doesn't have a File Manager in it.
@ Thread Title: Productivity is subjective and depends on what the person does on his/her device. You haven't really give anyone a clue as to what you do on you device, so it's hard to tell if it'll be productive to you. All you've done was put a tacky title on yet another "this is what I want for WP7. Is it there, is it coming, why isn't it there, etc." thread.
That may sound a bit harsh. Not intentionally. But that's basically what it is.
Windows Phone 7 is way more productive than Windows Mobile, generally speaking. Anything except maybe Blackberry OS and Symbian^3 is more productive than Windows Mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you spent way too much time on that response to someone who obviously has no intention of getting a wp7 device.
But a great response none the less...
nrfitchett4 said:
you spent way too much time on that response to someone who obviously has no intention of getting a wp7 device.
But a great response none the less...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong attitude. He wants to know if he can use new OS and do things he needs to do.
doministry said:
Wrong attitude. He wants to know if he can use new OS and do things he needs to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He could have read any of the 400 reviews on this OS in its infancy and figured that out.
cloudy cloudy
@N8ter: thanks for the explanation. WP7 is connection data intensive, it needs a good data plan
@nrfitchett4: wow, i can feel the heat from your replies. calm down... anyway, i think older gadget such ad hd2 is more suitable for me (though i don't like its battery capacity for the huge display). you are right
@All others: any other opinions ?
my opinion: i get the feeling that without a good network coverage & signal the newer OSes (android/wp7/iphone) will reduce its ability to perform even a simple task. we are getting dependent a lot on the cloud
budsant said:
@N8ter: thanks for the explanation. WP7 is connection data intensive, it needs a good data plan
@nrfitchett4: wow, i can feel the heat from your replies. calm down... anyway, i think older gadget such ad hd2 is more suitable for me (though i don't like its battery capacity for the huge display). you are right
@All others: any other opinions ?
my opinion: i get the feeling that without a good network coverage & signal the newer OSes (android/wp7/iphone) will reduce its ability to perform even a simple task. we are getting dependent a lot on the cloud
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry. Not trying to flame, just a lot of hate threads hear lately. Honestly for what you want to do, an hd2 is probably your best. Mature OS with high end device specs. Extended battery is available if you can stand the hump it will add, or carrying a spare battery is what I did with my tp2.
budsant said:
@N8ter: thanks for the explanation. WP7 is connection data intensive, it needs a good data plan
@nrfitchett4: wow, i can feel the heat from your replies. calm down... anyway, i think older gadget such ad hd2 is more suitable for me (though i don't like its battery capacity for the huge display). you are right
@All others: any other opinions ?
my opinion: i get the feeling that without a good network coverage & signal the newer OSes (android/wp7/iphone) will reduce its ability to perform even a simple task. we are getting dependent a lot on the cloud
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I am poweruser of WM considering it's features as top.
And than I bought WP which I use for 3 weeks.
First, it's not true WP7 will not work without data transfer.
Mine works exactly like it should with data off. I mean it requires transfer for the things which need it anyway like email, browser etc.
I don't buy music from the marketplace...
Yes there are some apps which are connection based like translators ect. and I would love to see it offline too.
Now productivity - it's a question of what you really need.
In fact WP7 with Office and OneNote built in is very productive.
I love the platform for it's power and execution.
However I do miss things from WM. Android is unnacceptable UI wise....
So I am staying with WP7 if Microsoft will add more features to it.
If not - it will be tough call.
Now feeling how WP7 works I don't want to step back and everything else FEELS like a step backwards. And I hope I will not be forced to do it.
But my WM6.5 device is still with me ready to come back.
Well Said
doministry said:
I am poweruser of WM considering it's features as top.
And than I bought WP which I use for 3 weeks.
First, it's not true WP7 will not work without data transfer.
Mine works exactly like it should with data off. I mean it requires transfer for the things which need it anyway like email, browser etc.
I don't buy music from the marketplace...
Yes there are some apps which are connection based like translators ect. and I would love to see it offline too.
Now productivity - it's a question of what you really need.
In fact WP7 with Office and OneNote built in is very productive.
I love the platform for it's power and execution.
However I do miss things from WM. Android is unnacceptable UI wise....
So I am staying with WP7 if Microsoft will add more features to it.
If not - it will be tough call.
Now feeling how WP7 works I don't want to step back and everything else FEELS like a step backwards. And I hope I will not be forced to do it.
But my WM6.5 device is still with me ready to come back.
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Well said. I still have my HTC FUZE, in fact the SIM card I used in my new Samsung Focus was the one I used in the FUZE. I can insert it back into the FUZE anytime I want to. But, even though I used WM for years, and tweaked it, customized it, loaded 4 new Radio ROMs and 5 custom ROMs, I am staying with the WP7 phone. For me, it is smoother, faster, and everything is well integrated. I am looking forward to updates and new features, but for now, it is an awesome experience. I now realize that I had loaded up my WM 6.5.5 phone with a lot of crap I never used and don't miss now. OK, I understand that people want the "right" to load their phone up with "Crap" they'll never use, and some "Crap" they will use, and for those, they'll have to wait on WP7 or remain with WM or some other OS, and that's fine. Personally, I would have loved WM still being upgraded on the latest hardware, I would have stayed with that, I think. But having moved to WP7, I won't go back.
nrfitchett4 said:
you spent way too much time on that response to someone who obviously has no intention of getting a wp7 device.
But a great response none the less...
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it was time very well spent. N8ter's post answered my questions without me having to make a new thread.
thebranded said:
it was time very well spent. N8ter's post answered my questions without me having to make a new thread.
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+1
its good to see wm users experiences and questions about a possible up/down grade to wp.
very useful stuff.
Touching on N8ter's point on libraries and file managers... If you think about it, those libraries ARE file managers, and are actually more effective than a file manager would be. The only thing, which will be fixed with W8 and Mango working together, is better SkyDrive integration so you have a much easier way of syncing your files. I mean, I honestly have never used my phone as a flash drive, and the only reason I ever used a file manager in the past was for .cab files... Which we don't need any more.
But, I can't wait for SkyDrive to work as it needs to coming up, I think THAT is my most important feature coming considering I'm a student and would make my life significantly easier. I do see an ability to hook up the phone to a PC in the future and Word automatically recognize your Word files on a WinPhone device though... Not as a mass storage, as an additional "library" for files... If you understand what I mean here.
Libraries aren't a file manager. It isn't a replacement, either. There's no control over a library. It's an automatic classification of media on the device based on the media type. You can't take a private file and put it somewhere on the device where it will not show up in a Library, and that's an issue for some people. If you have any private documents/images/videos on your phone, it's hard to let anyone who thinks the phone looks interesting play with it because all of those files are right there in plain sight in the Hubs, so you have to tell them to go to a Carrier store if they wanna play with one. That's not an issue on i.e. an Android phone because you can hide the file in a nested folder and set it so that the folder's files are not displayed in the Gallery.
Also, the lack of a file manager is keeping things like BT File transfer and File Transfer in IM applications out at the moment, and it make sit ridiculously hard to put files on the device and keep them organized.
One of the best features of Android Office applications is their integrated file manager and Cloud Integration.
SkyDrive will be nice, but without a decent file manager Office will still be worthless to me because there's no way I'm putting all my files on SkyDrive. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I have 5 computers here and do not need Microsoft to hold my files. I like my stuff to be organized, and I don't want everything on the internet... Skydrive also doesn't have the best file type support for Synching...
Do you back up your camera roll to SkyDrive automatically?
N8ter said:
Libraries aren't a file manager. It isn't a replacement, either. There's no control over a library. It's an automatic classification of media on the device based on the media type. You can't take a private file and put it somewhere on the device where it will not show up in a Library, and that's an issue for some people. If you have any private documents/images/videos on your phone, it's hard to let anyone who thinks the phone looks interesting play with it because all of those files are right there in plain sight in the Hubs, so you have to tell them to go to a Carrier store if they wanna play with one. That's not an issue on i.e. an Android phone because you can hide the file in a nested folder and set it so that the folder's files are not displayed in the Gallery.
Also, the lack of a file manager is keeping things like BT File transfer and File Transfer in IM applications out at the moment, and it make sit ridiculously hard to put files on the device and keep them organized.
One of the best features of Android Office applications is their integrated file manager and Cloud Integration.
SkyDrive will be nice, but without a decent file manager Office will still be worthless to me because there's no way I'm putting all my files on SkyDrive. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I have 5 computers here and do not need Microsoft to hold my files. I like my stuff to be organized, and I don't want everything on the internet... Skydrive also doesn't have the best file type support for Synching...
Do you back up your camera roll to SkyDrive automatically?
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Bluetooth transfer isn't implemented because Microsoft hasn't yet, not because of any other reason. You could go to any file, or picture, and select Share, and the option could be there, regardless of library. I mean, by that theory, there shouldn't be any method of sharing then. You do it in text messaging at the moment, and in Who's Near Me, it's just the apps haven't implemented them.
If things on your phone are that important, there is a password option. I personally don't let anybody touch my phone. I think my texts are far more 'secret' than any document I can put on my phone, to be honest, but that's just me. I would though like folders in Office to sort out my documents, this may come with the new integration though. I would also like to option to protect the documents as I do on my computer.
As far as putting files on the device, I'm for the whole "only supported files" allowed deal. But, look back at my post, I would like to see something along the lines of: Plug my phone into the computer, open word, and it's there as an extension. Same with other Microsoft applications. Pictures and Music are already done through Zune.
I think I'm also on a different end of the spectrum than you are. Personally I keep all my files on my home network. I also access it remotely. So, full SkyDrive integration would be amazing in my eyes. I'm already at risk connecting to the internet, pretty sure Microsoft can do a better job than me at protecting my files. I already use SkyDrive on my phone through the mobile site too, it's just a hassle in dropping them into the folder I created on my computer, and then downloading them on my phone. This being done automatically would be amazing.
But as far as using it as a storage device for files the phone has no need for, I don't like that idea personally. You have to remember the types of users that are being marketed here. I think something along what I suggested would be best. Security just needs to be upped a little. Let me password protect certain files and I'm fine.
And no, I don't automatically put them on SkyDrive... I think mainly out of habit. But 99% of my pictures go on Facebook the second I snap them. And I use Photobucket quite often... If my Live friends were large in number I'm pretty sure my SkyDrive would be full of public photos.
From all my research on WP7 and HTC HD7, yes it seems very strenuous to do the things we used could do on other 'smartphones' ... Ever since apple came out with the 'app' world... things are being followed(android, Ms).. But what i think is, that with Win 8 on the Horizon, the app world is here to stay, and it shouldn't be a surprise when it will come to, what you can run on your PC, u can also run it on ur mobile... I don't know if such interface has happened with Apple and the Macs and the pods n phones to do that... Google is doing more with chrome to do that with their android... so, will they still have to sit upon other os's to accomplish this or as I think I've heard they are making their own Os... Future stats shows, Apple is on a downhill trend and Android to follow... In reading in MSN today, Android phones are being introduced with viruses, such as the one that will sit on your phone and send all your data to some phone numbers in china... So Android glory days maybe not so great... As the veterans have stood longer then the newbies...
just a thought
(long post warning...I'm placing the summary first for those who don't care to read the whole thing)
***
In summary, I want a mobile platform that I can tweak until I get it exactly as I like it; that will sync with Windows desktop and server platforms (this is a strong preference, not a "must"; upon which I own things and don't have to worry about them being stolen or broken; that doesn't tell everyone and their mother where I go and what I'm doing; and on which I can listen to Sirius radio; and to which I can transfer data back and forth via USB without any permission based cloud interface. It must also be compatible with Slingplayer software and I have a strong, strong, preference for a slideout QWERTY keyboard, but I'd sacrifice that if I have to for the above functionalities. I'm currently on ATT, but it doesn't have to be that way
***
I am thinking about purchasing a new phone. But the market is a bit more complicated than when I purchased my current phone (HTC Diamond), so I hope that you guys can give me some advice.
I have been a Windows Mobile user since 5.0. What I loved about WM is that I could come here and read about the various hacks, mods, and custom roms and generally find something to address any problems I had, or find a way to modify the phone to meet my preferences.
I love the mobile version of Office and I use it constantly for work purposes. I especially like being able to sync outlook contacts on both phone and device, and that I can make presentations from the phone, and can open and manipulate Word and Excel.
I was also using SiriusXM 6 by tcbush over on Geekstoolbox to listen to satellite radio. Unfortunately, Sirius has taken down their legacy servers that streamed content to third party providers. So it does not appear that I can listen to satellite radio any longer via my mobile device.
It is this turn of events (Sirius radio) that is my main motivator for seeking a new phone. I could listen to Sirius via the web, but that requires a Flash player and I can't find a version of flash for WM 6.1. I have both Opera Mini and IE. So, if any of you know a way for a WM 6.1 device to listen to Sirius, you will have solved my immediate problem and saved me some money. I would really appreciate that.
But on the larger scale, I know that one day I will have to replace my beloved Diamond. Her slideout QWERTY is starting to jiggle, there are a few scratches on her beautiful face even though she hasn't gone a moment without a case and screen protector. Every now and again her D-Pad loses its way, and I have to reboot. Alas, I fear the end is near. *sigh*
So, in looking over the current landscape, I see three options: iphone, Android, and WM7.
Apple products to me are out for personal preference reasons.
That leaves Android and WM7.
Problem 1:
I enjoyed my prior experience of owning a WM phone supported by a network of generous, friendly developers who found ways that we could modify our phones to our hearts' content. I also like the fact that I own my phone and all its content. Once I install or tweak something, then that's it unless I decide to change it.
But the current market seems to be based on a top-down control model. From what I've read, owning a phone with the current tech is like owning a home on leasehold property or in a HOA: You pay full price for ownership but you do not enjoy the rights of control normally associated with that ownership. It seems that the devices are locked, difficult to unlock, find ways to re-lock, and that a Nanny-server may at times uninstall or disable software that it doesn't like.
I just don't get it. Has the culture embraced a model where a user pays a provider only to be told by that provider what he can and cannot do with the property he has purchased?
Of course, my perception of these issues could be incorrect. I recently went back to school and have unplugged from most external things. I haven't been following the "insider info" on xda for nearly two years. If I'm wrong, please tell me.
Problem 2:
User tracking. Sounds Orwellian.
I get it that the cell provider can locate you. I understand the technology reasonably well for regular Joe, and I understand that the network needs to know where you are. But until recently, the cell provider could not release those records without a warrant or some emergency confirmed by law enforcement like a lost person, etc. I actually worked with Sprint in conjunction with the police to attempt to track a stolen phone. However, it now appears that the manufacturers themselves and many app developers are bypassing the law by tracking users without their consent. Am I right on this?
I've read a number of articles on the Apple and Android tracking problems - generic apps tracking you and reporting your movements to Apple, Google, etc. Apps turning on the mic or camera at intervals and tracking your surroundings or conversations. Route these concerns through the awfulness of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, the Patriot Act, and the fact that both the post-digital presidential administrations (Bush II and Obama) seem intent on eroding what remains of our privacy, and it makes me uncomfortable. To make it worse, Google and Zuckerburg are both in bed with the Obama administration, and stories of their privacy infractions are epidemic.
Yet none of the progs I use on my WM 6.1 device use tracking (that I know of). So, in a very short time, it appears that the culture of mobile communications has gone from an ownership model with Constitutional protections to a free-for-all where you essentially pay big brother to track you.
I have heard many of my younger friends who have grown up in the big-government era use the default: "If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about." But that's exactly backward. The law presumes your privacy and allows infractions only after due process. The current culture seems to presume lack of privacy, and treat privacy-seekers as an anomaly. And the tech seems to reflect the culture rather than the law.
Am I crazy? Even if I am crazy, is there a way to block this tracking? And, if so, does Android or WM7 better lend itself to blocking this tracking?
Problem 3:
USB data transfer.
WM7 doesn't support smart cards. But, the devices seem to have adequate on-board storage for my needs. However, from what I've read, I'll need to use Zune (on WM7, don't know about Android) to move data back and forth. Is that correct?
I currently use Windows Mobile Device Center to transfer files back and forth via USB or Bluetooth, and I really want to keep that functionality.
Thank you if you have read this far. And, given those criteria, what are my best options?
Droid X2. Get it.
Droid X2
Droid X2. Get it.
+1
Thanks for the responses. I've done a bit of research on the phone you recommended, and some research in general. I really need to spool back up
It looks like there are apps out there like WhisperMonitor that will help with my privacy concerns. Actually, it looks like there are Android Apps to address most of my concerns.
I'll keep researching that to determine how much functionality I'll have to sacrifice. And I appreciate the responses. Love the dual core structure of this phone. From what I've read, the benchmarks don't differ too much from single core phones, but it looks like the dual core really helps with load distribution and multi-tasking.
It will be hard to leave Windows...been with it since it was Pocket PC 2000. But atm, it appears that Android may work best for me.
I agree Droid X2, although VZW is expensive, its the best network
Off the basis of wanting a slide out QWERTY and Windows Phone 7, I would go with the HTC Arrive for Sprint. You still have Windows Phone, you can get Sling Player from the Marketplace, and it has a slide out QWERTY that when it slides out, angles the screen for better typing the way I look at it.
samsung galaxy s2
or atrix
If you QWERTY I'd wait till my4g slide if it launches with s-off. I don't imagine you'd be keeping the os in tact.
The g2 is also a beautiful phone. Amazing specs for the good hardware.
T-Mobile is also cheapest, I find, of the four carriers.
The epic 4g seemed nice. Hummingbird (Samsung 1ghz processor) is very nice and has a great gpu.
If you're looking to use google talk video chat, avoid nvidia tegra 2 chips.
Google's suite of software is pretty sweet. Google docs works nice, and there's an app for that.
As long as you download from android market you're good from malware. (If you do get it from market, google does pull the app from the store AND your phone, that's the only time I heard them doing this, and that was once instance.)
Besides... Supporting your developers is a great thing.
Did I miss anything?
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
IMO almost any of the android phones would work for what you have in mind. As you pointed out in your follow up post there are apps out there for your privacy concerns. I've had a Moto Droid and now the HTC Thunderbolt. Both have been synced with my works exchange servers with no issues, google apps work great with Office docs, and the available roms and other customizations are almost endless.
Also, don't get hung up on a QWERTY keyboard. I swore I would never have a phone without one, but now that I do I actually don't really miss it.
Edit:
USB data transfer - very simple to do with android. Install a driver for the phone and then connect to your pc with a USB cable. Your pc will recognize the sdcard as removeable storage. Just select it in My Computer and drag and drop anything you want to move like you would for moving any file around in Windows.