Database Info

IM Frustrations

For years now I’ve been standing firm by the pocket pc platform. In countless ways I think it is the way of the future for not only one’s phone, but the one device that we all carry around that does it all. I’m very pleased to say the platform has proven this time and time again. But there’s one grey area that just seems to be left in limbo with the improvements of everything else. This is IM! Back when I upgraded to my Cingular 8125 from my ipaq, I remember having the feeling something was missing. I had this new phone that could do it all, but it just wasn’t able to do it all correct, so I sought out on a search to find that perfect im app.
This was back in the days when agile was still in beta and was free. Aside from the ugly aim app that I had to download from the .uk site, this was pretty much the only option. But it was okay, it was a very good option. As time passed a few more came out, IM+ was around as well and a few other lack luster apps. I do remember paying for IM+ but wasn’t very happy with the UI and the way it worked with the soft keys so I kinda stuck to agile.
Then I got a whole of my 8525 when I came out. So I had this phone that could do it all (lol again) now with 3g included….and I still didn’t have an IM app to my liking. Agile and IM+ really started to look bad. Not to mention these were the days of the sidekicks! As much as I hate those things, one has to admit, they do what they’re supposed to do very well. The thing that really wowed me about the sidekick was its ability to switch to sms messenger for the aim when you’re on the phone. This was pure genius. It allowed you to stay connected while on the phone or not. Well….luckily we had a solution for that. It was called verichat.
Verichat had an option to enter your sms address and it would send you the messages via text if you were to be disconnected from the internet. This was all well and good, even though it worked…it was very slow. Not to mention the UI of the app itself was kinda slow as well…so I often got frustrated. So it’s about a year later and we have a few new comers. Among them are mundu, octrotalk and the latest and greatest palringo.
Once again I find myself paying for apps I’m not entirely happy with (no ones fault but myself.) But the life time membership for mundu wasn’t bad…it was only $11. Mundu has a very clean and welcome UI. Its features are definitely up to snuff, but it’s still missing what I think should be the basics. But overall this is a very good app. Octrotalk is still in beta….and by its rights a very good app. Even though I think the UI could use some polish and it’s still missing the “basics.” Now for my favorite of the bunch….palringo. This one is a almost a entire entity on its own, that just supports IM clients. The UI isn’t as pretty as mundu, but it’s still polished and the feature set is great….especially its support for push to talk and image I’m. But again….the basic.
What are these basics I keep rambling on about? Well…for one…lets start with displaying your contacts buddy icons. It kills me that none of these apps allow me to see my contacts buddy icons…and what’s even more annoying, I can’t set a custom pic for my icon in any app. This is such a huge feature and it needs these developers urgent attention. 2. I’d like to see support for fonts and colors. I should be able to import my favorite font to the phone and set size and color to be displayed to my contact when I’m in a conversation. Mundu touched on this a little but not enough. 3. Being able to read contacts away messages. Mundu and octrotalk does this but palringo does not….this should be a no brainier. 4. Just make it simple to navigate….there should be no reason I should have to take out the stylus. I should be able to scroll my list, start convos, switch between them, set custom away messages send images, so on and so forth with the soft keys.
Im not a developer, but I do know these few improvements shouldn’t be hard to accomplish. These are all standard on all desktop IM programs, other mobile platforms (like the sidekick and the iphone) and even web2 based sites (like meboo.com) And even if they’re difficult to develop….so what! Developers need to stop being lazy and get it done. I don’t care of if I have to pay $50 for the app. What really kills me inside is how the iphone came out, and within a few weeks it had 7 different I’m clients most of which had the basics down pat. Why does it take us 4 years in the ppc community? And we’re still not there yet. Anyone else feel this way? Is anyone out there listening???????

You need to re-format your post because it is not easy to read
What is your problem? Describe in 1 or 2 sentences ...

The new MSN Messenger mobile is amazing.
1. Intuitive and Easy navigation: Right/Left tabs between the conversations. Up/Down navigates buddies and messages.
2. Emoticons
3. Supports sending images.
4. (Amazingly useful) Supports sending Voice Clips. This is probably one of the most wow features about it.
5. Displays information about contacts, including the IM picture.

shaharprish said:
The new MSN Messenger mobile is amazing.
1. Intuitive and Easy navigation: Right/Left tabs between the conversations. Up/Down navigates buddies and messages.
2. Emoticons
3. Supports sending images.
4. (Amazingly useful) Supports sending Voice Clips. This is probably one of the most wow features about it.
5. Displays information about contacts, including the IM picture.
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while this is true. im looking for an all-in-one app. but you are correct...i did enjoy the msn live.

rzanology said:
What really kills me inside is how the iphone came out, and within a few weeks it had 7 different I’m clients most of which had the basics down pat. Why does it take us 4 years in the ppc community? And we’re still not there yet.
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My current thoughts exactly. I'm crying inside.
I really hope that people at Palringo will get it "done" and not leave behind a client that will miss the important features. It's really amazing that some companies even charge for their poor inexcusable clients.
I also agree that those avatar images are more important than many would think. Last time i chatted with my ppc, i had three "Timo" persons online. Had to ask which one which was. I've gotten used to just look at the avatar.

I feel the same way! I LOVE having IM on my phone.. but it just seems like no single company can get it right on the PocketPC. I don't understand what the is the problem! My favorite two right now are Octrotalk and Mundu. I tried Palringo, but it lacked a couple critical things for me.
Octrotalk Pros
1. Today plugin that shows status
2. Doesn't crash... ever.. it stays connected for days
3. Fairly simple to change custom status text
Octrotalk Cons
1. No custom status text on the today plugin.. ARGH, so simple, I've requested it three times!
2. No profile pictures, come on... just add them!
3. Having Gtalk be the conduit for the other legacy IM clients still causes problems with my other IM clients like Trillian... I get duplicate contacts often
Mundu Pros
1. Supports profile pictures! Yippee
2. Displays custom status messages next to names on the contact list
3. Supports group conversations across IM mediums! woot!
Mundu Cons
1. No today plugin... I really like that feature in Octrotalk... just make a simple one line plugin that says status and custom message, ie. "Online - Mobile!"
2. No WM5 soft key support, I HATE tapping the screen.. even more so when the interface has a TINY menu bar.
3. Doesn't display the current custom status message for YOURSELF anywhere that I can find.

Also don't forget to read the IM Bible at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=295677 - it might contain info you aren't aware of.

Menneisyys said:
Also don't forget to read the IM Bible at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=295677 - it might contain info you aren't aware of.
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i'll tell ya what....that disconnecting thing annoyed the hell outtah me. Im gonna try to check off the "always on" connection option in HTCustom and see what happens. I think thats the same reg hack.
But i've been through your post a few times...maybe one too many times.

CURIOSITY COMPARISON: Does the iPhone ever freeze up, require restart/reset?

I've been at XDA for 2 years, initially trying to get my T-Mobile MDA to perform better, and for this past year my T-Mobile WING. I've never owned an iPhone -- nor have I ever sat down to ask friends of mine who have iPhones these questions. But now I am curious:
Apple makes killer products with thoughtful attention to product design, customer usability design, graphical interface, and occasionally some software/hardware breakthroughs (like multi-touch for the iphone). Then they market to consumers like nobody else, in every sales channel. This is all the "in-front of the curtain" stuff everyone knows.
But I know from being a Mac user since 1986 with my original MacSE, all way up to the current Mac Pro desktop and MacBook Pro laptop, that "behind the curtain" they ALL lock-up at times, requiring restarts, etc. And servicing. I just got my Mac Pro desktop back from repair where a hard drive failed. ... But I am out of touch completely with the world of iPhones.
Some of you have iPhones. I'm curious on a given day, how many apps can you run simultaneously, and how often does an iPhone freeze up requiring a reset? For comparative purposes, on my "XDA-modified" Wing (HTC Herald) -- which has an old & slow processor, and very litle RAM, I can now, after many software improvements, run Google Maps, Contact Manager, Notes, Total Commander, OperaMini browser, "Photos & Videos" photo cropper, and sometimes my MP3 player all open at same time, and not crash. My MP3 player *will* cause all that to lock up, and I know this, so I don't normally do this, but under normal usage, all of the above WITHOUT the MP3 player is doable), and I task-switch between these open apps.
How much can the iPhone handle simultaneously?
Do they freeze up time to time?
If so, how often for an average user?
What's the remedy? A "restart"?
This is not a "shootout" question. It really is just curiosity because I hear all the time the many great things about the iPhone (but that it lacks video, and MMS messaging), but I have no clue at all if they generally never lock up, or if they do. thanks, in advance for any comments.

quicksite said:
How much can the iPhone handle simultaneously?
Do they freeze up time to time?
If so, how often for an average user?
What's the remedy? A "restart"?
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a) for an "average" user - 1 app at a time (the exception being itunes + whatever app you want to use.)
for someone who is willing to mod there iphone (jailbreak + backgrounder app) i'll reckon 3 - 4 apps.
b) hardly, again for an average user this would be even less, probably once a couple of months.
if you are into cutting edge stuff then more freq., maybe once a week.
c)1) hold the home button , this should force the the app to close.
2) if the above step does not work, turn of the phone by holding the power button
3)if that does not work, reboot by holding the power and home button simultaneously.

Thats being generous Yes the iPhone DOES lock up and freeze, fairly often. At least as much as a factory standard WinMo device, if not more. Of course WinMos, being much more open can be modified and as such they have the potential to be less reliable if the modding isnt careful.

rovex said:
Thats being generous Yes the iPhone DOES lock up and freeze, fairly often. At least as much as a factory standard WinMo device, if not more. Of course WinMos, being much more open can be modified and as such they have the potential to be less reliable if the modding isnt careful.
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i beg to differ, winmo requires a softrest atleast every week, on the other hand i have not had to reboot my iphone since last dec.

Well my experience is somewhat different, the iPhone i had to test (im a technology reviewer) required a reset at least every few days. Ive only just given it backafter 6 months or use so it wasnt to do with early software. My everyday phone is a Touch HD, and it does have issues, but normally only with opera, nothing else causes any problems that need a reset.

rovex said:
Thats being generous Yes the iPhone DOES lock up and freeze, fairly often. At least as much as a factory standard WinMo device, if not more. Of course WinMos, being much more open can be modified and as such they have the potential to be less reliable if the modding isnt careful.
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Just no
It hardly ever screws up, but does sometimes.
But to say more than stock WM is hilarious.
The great thing is that because it only runs one thing at a time, it never runs out of memory unlike sock wm. Backgrounder on jailbroken iphones lets you run stuff in the background. I always had mail (with 2 accounts) sms, safari and ipod in the background with no probs

Well, since i experience otherwise.. JUST YES. I love how others automatically write off your experience because they don't experience it.
Multitasking has little to do with anything, some of the stock and buyable apps for the iPhone are problematic and cause it to lock up. Im hardly the first or last person the find this.

rovex said:
Well, since i experience otherwise.. JUST YES. I love how others automatically write off your experience because they don't experience it.
Multitasking has little to do with anything, some of the stock and buyable apps for the iPhone are problematic and cause it to lock up. Im hardly the first or last person the find this.
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Well i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
just out of curiosity, what firmware were you running ??? and what were the stock applications that caused you to lock up.
and did you actually lock up or did the application crash???

rorydaredkign said:
Just no
It hardly ever screws up, but does sometimes.
But to say more than stock WM is hilarious.
The great thing is that because it only runs one thing at a time, it never runs out of memory unlike sock wm. Backgrounder on jailbroken iphones lets you run stuff in the background. I always had mail (with 2 accounts) sms, safari and ipod in the background with no probs
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wow you ran a mp3 player, sms and the web and it didn't freeze?? AMAZING.. /sarcasm
Apples attitude is 'my way or the highway' and as someone mentioned, windows can be tweaked opening to reliability problems.
My WinMO device hasn't required a softreset for about a month. My friends iPhone froze as soon as i ran a app, forgot what it was called.
If Microsoft made a phone that was the perfect config to their software, it'll run like a reliable phone but that's Apples territory. There is a reason why it's called "Jail"Break.
Same with the OSX and Windows.. you can't compare cause Microsoft makes it work with thousands of hardware and is bound to run into a problem somewhere. OSX is very limited so they hardly run into problems.

I've used Windows Mobile phones (standard and professional) since 2005. (Starting with the Audiovox SMT 5600) In addition, I have had a work BlackBerry since 2007, and an iPhone (now iPhone 3G) since 2008.
To answer your questions, I have rarely (maybe once every few months) had the iPhone freeze up requiring a reboot. To be honest, I rarely had a hard freeze on any of my Windows Mobile phones BUT I did restart them once a week because they just ran better that way. (Memory leaks, probably)
You can't compare the iPhone directly because by design, only a few applications run simultaneously: Mail, Phone, Safari, iPod. (And possibly Maps)
However, the iPhone seems very good at switching from application to application, with no noticeable memory leaks.
I've found that it really depends on what you expect the phone to do. I rarely talk on the phone or text; for me, it's all about email and Internet usage. The Safari browser is currently second-to-none, and the iPhone is exceptionally good at connecting to Wi-Fi whenever available seamlessly. And, since the email application uses Safari to render, it is also very good.

Thank you for all your replies. It wouldn't be the tech world if there wasn't vast -- sometimes diametrically opposed -- disagreement.
The great thing is that because it only runs one thing at a time, it never runs out of memory unlike sock wm. Backgrounder on jailbroken iphones lets you run stuff in the background. I always had mail (with 2 accounts) sms, safari and ipod in the background with no probs
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Once again, my inquiry is not for "shootout" reasons. It has to do more with the reliability of the overall user experience on the iPhone. I know from only briefly using it for 15 minutes or so, how responsive it is, and how easy the interface is to use. But it only struck me recently, given this new explosion in Apps for Touchscreen devices, that the more things people are going to want their iphones to do, DO they ever freeze up.
I was looking for an answer like "only 1 out of 100 people, and maybe then, maybe every 3-4 months, so in general it just doesn't freeze up in numbers high enough to be statistically noteworthy".
But even given the disagreement of experiences just amongst 3-4 people in this thread (a very tiny sample), it freezes more than I would have expected. That's not to lower the grade of reliability in using an iPhone to accomplish a series of tasks; it's more just to note: YES, IT DOES FREEZE UP, on occasion, but rarely.
I already know my old T-Mobile MDA, and now my new T-Mobile WING, froze up a lot, for my taste; and that was before I started modding here at XDA. But I attribute most of those freezeups to the simple hardware inadequacy issue of slow processor and not a lot of RAM. So, if I wanted to launch a bunch of things to stay in memory, to swap back and forth between apps, the WM device would lock up, requiring a soft-reset to reboot the device.
WHich is why XDA-developers has pulled off miracles by, in effect, doubling or probably more like tripling, the usefulness of my WM phone.
But regarding this:
The great thing is that because it only runs one thing at a time, it never runs out of memory unlike sock wm. Backgrounder on jailbroken iphones lets you run stuff in the background. I always had mail (with 2 accounts) sms, safari and ipod in the background with no probs
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I'm trying to interpret this correctly. Running only one thing at a time is only a great benefit if all apps open relatively instantaneously, like, in a half second. So I could hop between selecting text within a browser, then paste it in to a notes document, edit it a bit, then look up an address on Google Maps, find it, grab the link, then add it to my text doc, then snap a few pics, attach them to an email along with my edited text, and send -- perhaps with my mp3 player playing inot my earphones the whole time.
I am talking about realtime use-case scenarios, not simply the sequential moving from app to app on an iphone. So, what I am interested in NOW is doing a bit of a shootout between an iphone and a WM phone in accomplishing a real-life array of tasks -- because that's the real test of the performance of a phone. Not what it does in demo mode, but in reallife getting stuff accomplished mode.
Is anyone here interested in helping to construct a few scenarios? I mean a wide variety of stuff, from emergencies and need and ambulance and also to perform CPR on someone and finding out where they are, to going to a demonstration in Washington DC, coordinating your meeting spot, using Google Maps to track where various people are, shooting photos, updating a blog in real time, etc --- and many kinds of multi-tasking of life demands ?
I am seeing 5 if not 6 platforms now poised to battle each other in the downloadable widget/apps dept -- Apple, Google Android, Blackberry, WindowsMobile, Palm, maybe Symbian, who knows maybe Nokia --- and I am interested in how this all starts to play out when people load suff onto their phone expecting to do x, y, z at the same time, or closely in sequence -- and how each platform is poised to handle these consumer behaviors.
thanks for the headstart in learning that the iPhone, though perhaps more reliable than WM in not freezing up so often, still does have this issue to contend with from time to time.
In a sense, WindowsMobile users almost expect there will be hang ups time to time... frsutrating and irritating, but not like a major surprise. Whereas I would imagine iPhone users have very high expectations, like close to perfection, and will not take kindly to any increasing freezeups.
Just my 2 cents on this in general.

quicksite said:
I'm trying to interpret this correctly. Running only one thing at a time is only a great benefit if all apps open relatively instantaneously, like, in a half second. So I could hop between selecting text within a browser, then paste it in to a notes document, edit it a bit, then look up an address on Google Maps, find it, grab the link, then add it to my text doc, then snap a few pics, attach them to an email along with my edited text, and send -- perhaps with my mp3 player playing inot my earphones the whole time.
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you do know that the iphone cannot do almost half of the things listed here

fallenczar said:
you do know that the iphone cannot do almost half of the things listed here
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Well that's kinda why I listed them, kind of like at the start of a race, ready-set-go! And when it comes time for iphone to shoot video, race ends... or sending an MMS message.
As far as I know those are the two main things, right? But in all fairness, you just know Apple is going to have those two things added into and working in their next big product release.
So I am really aiming this for that next release... My overall premise is that the consumer marketplace has almost no clue about what all these competing devices & platforms do and can't do. But that's not because they're stupid. Rather it's because they are hyper-marketed at, very effectively, with really sharp ads that focus on different whiz-bangs -- coming at them from 3 different industry sectors all at once:
the Carriers tout their packages and calling features mixed in with snippets of cool phone, then the phone makers tout their newest whizbang devices features & differentiatable special gizmos, and the platforms come at them with their own angles, again inserting whiz bang phone devices into the ads. Then I guess you could add a 4th source -- bloviating saleasmen at Best Buy (in USA) showing people their latest most expensive phones, regardless of the bigger picture questions of platform and carriers required to use it.
This is my reason for wanting to develop several real-world use-case scenarios, just to test how well each achieves the end-objective.

quicksite said:
Well that's kinda why I listed them, kind of like at the start of a race, ready-set-go! And when it comes time for iphone to shoot video, race ends... or sending an MMS message.
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well not quite
there are a couple of video rec. and mms apps, and they work as reliably as apps on other platforms.
However, i don't think it would be fair to compare 2 platforms that are so dissimilar, one being media centric, the other being business centric.

You are right about not really being able to compare them, they are two different devices with 2 completely different intended audiences.
I have used WM since 2001 constantly and I have used my iPhone for about 2 months.
Why WM devices are more like a little mini computer in my pocket where as my iPhone is more like a pocket media device that does lots of things that WM does, but not all.
I would say that my iPhone has only crashed 1 time in 2 months and that was from some jailbreak action, never from normal use. There are a couple of things that should be clarified about the iPhone and its limitations though:
1. No copy and paste. Duh. Everyone knows that. I knew it going into the whole 2 year contact. I can't honestly say that other than entering in my signature for emails has that really been an issue.
2. MMS. Today was the first time I wanted to send an MMS and I just emailed it to their phone number instead. No biggy. Worked well.
3. No true multi tasking. I disagree with this one. While there are some things I would prefer to be able to run at the same time most programs save state when they are closed so they are exactly back where they where when you closed it. Games, utilites etc.
Heck, the free timer I downloaded is programed so well that the start time used is the actual time that you hit the button so it comes back up and keep the count running.
Are there things I miss from my WM device, sure. Are there things that the iPhone does better than WM does? Sure. Are there things WM does better than the iPhone, sure.
How much does each one crash? I'd say a touch more on WM, but that is because I have a great ROM that a dedicated chef cooked up here at XDA. Comparing stock to stock though, is no comparison. The iPhone wins hands down in that regard.

Is there any online task system that will sync with windows mobile? At all?

Is there any free online task (to-do) list that can sync with the tasks in pocket outlook?
I have a few criteria:
1) It can't be through Outlook - I don't have it and don't want to pay for it
2) I don't want to use MyPhone - It would be fine if most of the fields weren't missing with the online interface
3) It has to be free Otherwise I'd just use RTM or Toodledo/Nuevasync
4) It has to sync with pocket outlook - I don't want to use a 3rd party task app
Please? Anybody? There are so many ways to sync either calendar or contacts but none for tasks! I've been looking for so long!
I used to use mail2web but they became not-free...
Thank you in advance...

Have you heart about "EssentialPIM"? Please google for this
http://www.essentialpim.com/de/index.php

borisku said:
Have you heart about "EssentialPIM"? Please google for this
http://www.essentialpim.com/de/index.php
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Thanks for the reply, but I can't get the free version of essentialPIM to sync. I believe only the full version supports this (and that costs money).

Bump
Is there no program or site which will allow me to sync my tasks for free?
Any free desktop PIM app or site will do... (MyPhone's task support is too anemic for my tastes.)
Anyone? Please...

Have you tried funambol? I've lost track with the current status, but it's the open source tool for synchronising calendars and address books of various flavours, as well as providing push email - over the air to all supported phones. I've never used it for tasks, but it may also sync them (there is certainly an option to sync tasks in the funambol client on my phone). You would need to look into it for yourself.

trentend said:
Have you tried funambol? I've lost track with the current status, but it's the open source tool for synchronising calendars and address books of various flavours, as well as providing push email - over the air to all supported phones. I've never used it for tasks, but it may also sync them (there is certainly an option to sync tasks in the funambol client on my phone). You would need to look into it for yourself.
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Their system is weird. It lets you sync for free for 60 days and from then on you can get more time if you 'help funambol' (post about it, help bugfix it etc...)
Thanks for reminding me about funambol in any case - Will look into it.
Any other ideas? Anyone? I can't possibly be the only person in this position!

Here's one that seems to be permanently free and not only gives you OTA live synch of Tasks it does Calendar and push mail as well. Oh, it can also be used with an existing OTA Exchange account.
Lotus Greenhouse Traveler, you will need to register and then download their Traveler client, but after that its a case of let it get on with it.

deedee said:
Here's one that seems to be permanently free and not only gives you OTA live synch of Tasks it does Calendar and push mail as well. Oh, it can also be used with an existing OTA Exchange account.
Lotus Greenhouse Traveler, you will need to register and then download their Traveler client, but after that its a case of let it get on with it.
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Interesting. I never thought of free hosted lotuslive solutions - though I was actively looking for free exchange ones. Will look into this... thanks

Think most people tend to only think of Exchange based solutions as MS are the predominant provider of office based email. As we are a Domino shop at work i tend to keep an eye on what they are doing and thought it might fit your requirements.

Any other ideas? Anyone? I can't possibly be the only person in this position!
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"Thank you for calling Microsoft Innovation Center Support Line, all of our agents are busy helping other customers. For faster service please see Android OS..."
Just a joke to start the day.
I am not certain your exact needs, but I want to put two things in front of you, in case you are not familiar with:
(1) OGGsync -- which i don't think is exactly what you want but take a look. It enables you to sync from Windows desktop Outlook to Gmail to windows mobile. It may sound like a weird system, but it has eliminated all that active sync crap. Still, it may not do what you want. And it's a small purchase of $30, i think annually... But it cuts through all the myriad of problems of Active sync cables etc.
SEE SIMPLE OVERVIEW HERE: http://oggsync.com/
SEE REVIEW from WMexperts here: http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/ogg_sync_for_windows_mobile.html
(2) ZOHO: This is just around the corner, but I think it's going to be one of the best solutions; I;m not sure of parts of it are there now or not.
Everyone knows of the "Google Cloud" suite of web apps: Gmail, Calendar, Documents, Spreadsheets, and so on. But surprisingly few people know about ZOHO -- a web-based business suite of apps competitor who many reviewers over the past few years have said is superior to Google, product after product. And Zoho has so many more apps it's hard to believe how "unknown" they are, like great project management software, one of the best wiki software designs EVER, made for non-techie people... etc. If I recall, I think individual usage of all of Zoho's web apps is free.
HERE, from the ZOHO Business Suit forums, is the status of their sync system for Windows Mobile: http://forums.zoho.com/topic/mobile-sync
And a brief review, but tons of them if you want to explore further.
http://www.reviewsaurus.com/web-applications-reviews/zoho-works-on-your-windows-mobile-too/

quicksite said:
"Thank you for calling Microsoft Innovation Center Support Line, all of our agents are busy helping other customers. For faster service please see Android OS..."
Just a joke to start the day.
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Lol... I love WM. But its so annoying to see so many companies and web services making great iphone and android apps while completely ignoring windows mobile.
I am not certain your exact needs, but I want to put two things in front of you, in case you are not familiar with:
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Click to collapse
Thanks!
I've all ready looked at goosync. If I had to pay I'd much rather go for toodledo + nuevasync or RTM. They're both around $25 a month.
I'm fairly familiar with zoho, actually. I've had an account almost since they opened shop and they actually sponsored a competition at my old college (I did my undergrad in india, which is where I am from).
They haven't implemented their sync system yet.. so I am still holding out... but I will probably shift when they get it all working.
For now I am looking at the lotuslive solution posted above - It looks promising.
I only wish myphone had a better interface - more ajax and a greater emphasis on content management rather than just backup (integration with windows live wouldn't hurt either...)
Thanks anyways.
I'm sure someone will find all this very useful...

LOOK AT ME! COMPLETELY off-topic post!
charge1313 said:
Lol... I love WM. But its so annoying to see so many companies and web services making great iphone and android apps while completely ignoring windows mobile.
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Click to collapse
I know, but in all fairness, where's the incentive? WM 7 already a year behind competition, pretty much even acknowledged by Ballmer, was due, finally, Feb 2010. Months after Android hit warp speed in October and then became the CHristmas, New Year's and now January story with Nexus One, even February is BEHIND significantly... but nobody needs to be reminded of that here.
I only recently switched to Android when i bought the HTC hero in early December-- after 5 years with WM on my old T-mobile Wing (Herald) and prior to that my T-Mobile MDA. Both were unusable til I discovered, then hung out in, XDA community 3+ years ago. With the great ROM chefs and app developers here, they single-handedly kept WM alive by making the whole OS and app suites finger friendly and fast -- providing great options instead of iphone for those who got wowed by the instant success (and obviousness once Apple made it happen) of finger-navigable touchscreens.
Point being, now WM 7 slipped to June 2010, and from twitter feeds I subscribe to, possibly now not even til September 2010!
Prob in that same time frame, Google will have released not just the Nexus Two phone (possibly the Motorola Shadow - a phone with slide down keyboard, kind of like the Pre), but maybe even a Nexus Three phone, and god only knows what kind of updates to Android.
I don't really much care what Apple does in this realm because I hate AT&T so badly that even if Apple does indeed revamp the iphone form factor and architecture and get it up to speed with real multi-tasking, Apple shall remain punished by me for making their exclusive deal with the devil. (Believe it or not, some consumers still vote against really bad corporate decisions with pocket book). I am an Apple user in the desktop/laptop realm, but could care less about the iphone... but even THEY are moving forward in this Jan-September timeframe. Everyone knows Apple refreshes their lines every 3 years or so, and they make big leaps, not small ones.
I have no doubt WM 7 will be a good OS, I really believe it WILL be -- and it better be -- or for sure it would, by September, be game over for Windows Mobile if they launch an already late OS rethink that, upon finally launching, doesn't wow the pants off the competition and consumers. I suspect it will follow the UI experience of the Zune HD, which I think has been very good, with a very interesting UI concept of Zooming-in deeply into a subject matter area, like Music, and zooming out with a kind of 3D effect of moving in space behind the screen surface. (Hmm, looks like I am not the only one who thinks so -- but this article at MobileTechWorld also trashes the Russian blogger who claims to have seen it in action)
Add this additional news to the mix and there are slimmer and slimmer reasons why someone would want to stick with WM and take that risk. (HTC has now shipped to stores its capacitive screen stylus -- puncturing yet another hole in the "must have windows mobile to work with mobile phone spreadsheets" desperation about why the world still NEEDS windows mobile.)
The final argument of course is "anyone serious about running business apps" and "anyone whose corporate IT dept requires Microsoft Exchange server compatibility will NEED to run windows mobile"... I have to say to anyone raising those arguments: PROVE IT. Which apps exactly can only run on WM... maybe yes, there is a valid case to be made. But the generalization, to me, is no longer valid -- in the same way 15 years ago people said apple could never be taken seriously in a business environment because it doesn;t run MS Office -- then of course it did, and that argument became moot.
I'm not acting all smug about my own shift to Android -- becasue there are for SURE some significant things I miss from my WM phone which I had 5 years ago -- jotting down notes using a stylus, or drawing a quick sketch to show someone an idea, or graphical illustration... I also miss the damn up-down-left-right D-pad, which is way way WAY better than the trackball on most android devices other than Sane Samsung who preserved the D-pad... wait come to think of it, so did Motorola on both their Oct-Nov-Dec new phones.
I'm just saying that in addition to my actually loving that Hero phone, and the HTC senseUI (which, yes, can & does run on WM as well), that I just don't feel like I have anything to lose by jettisoning WM for good... sorry to say.
BUT -- if they have good reason to be so late with WM 7, because it;s filled with game-changing surprises*, then I will stuff all these words into my mouth and eat them. (*And that means more than cute fun facebook-headed people poking at Excel-headed people)
Now wait, what were we talking about? oh yes.
I've all ready looked at OGGsync. If I had to pay I'd much rather go for toodledo + nuevasync or RTM. They're both around $25 a month.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two things: I regret even bringing it up, because I hadn't read your post carefully -- but only read the headline... So I missed the boat by miles because once i read the post you said clearly: NO OUTLOOK! and NO FEES!
Still, just to clarify, OGGsync is $30/year, not month. And I guess my question is, what about Google Sync? If I recall, once I synced all my WM pocket Outlook contacts to big bro Outlook on my PC, then synced all those to Gmail, then I was able to, i am pretty sure, sync my WM pocket outlook with Google Sync, using Google Calendar -- which I'd already been using for past 3 years, abandoning Outlook (like you) all together.
I'm fairly familiar with zoho, actually. I've had an account almost since they opened shop... I'm sure someone will find all this very useful...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have never switched to Zoho, but I prob would if I didn't work for self, and someone else just took care of moving all my stuff there and just making it happen for me!
good luck with lotus, hope it works. sorry for my off-topic editorial ....

^^ Lol. I can't help but laugh. I empathise with you so much!
quicksite said:
I only recently switched to Android when i bought the HTC hero in early December-- after 5 years with WM on my old T-mobile Wing (Herald) and prior to that my T-Mobile MDA. Both were unusable til I discovered, then hung out in, XDA community 3+ years ago. With the great ROM chefs and app developers here, they single-handedly kept WM alive by making the whole OS and app suites finger friendly and fast -- providing great options instead of iphone for those who got wowed by the instant success (and obviousness once Apple made it happen) of finger-navigable touchscreens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know what? Personally, I don't like the whole finger-friendly thing. I want speed and capability and information density. I don't care how easy it is to get from A to Z - I want to get there fast and effectively even if the learning curve is steep. Which is why I thought that the pinacle of windows mobile was the Axim X51 - It was fast and powerful and had features that outclass many of today's handsets.
6.5 was a let down - it actually killed functionality while giving me nothing. Titanium is the best example of this - Its nice to look at but it the end, it has less info per screen than the old home, takes longer to work with and is MUCH less configurable.
My current windows phone is a samsung jack. Its windows mobile standard. And IMO its the best mobile OS out there now. Except for one single thing - the lack of damn apps.
You'd think there would be thousands of apps considering the number of blackjacks out there but nooooo...
Windows mobile is the (Or should have been) the no-nonsense OS. It should be crazy configurable if you want it to be but just extremly usable if you're not into all that - a system that syncs with anything, works with every service and is in general the best PDA man has yet conceived. Sadly it isn't there any more..
Now wait, what were we talking about? oh yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol.. its ok. I've gone on my own WM rants all too often. I know exactly where you are coming from.
[/I][/B] If I recall, once I synced all my WM pocket Outlook contacts to big bro Outlook on my PC, then synced all those to Gmail, then I was able to, i am pretty sure, sync my WM pocket outlook with Google Sync, using Google Calendar -- which I'd already been using for past 3 years, abandoning Outlook (like you) all together.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google sync doesn't support tasks. Otherwise I'd use it. I use soocial for my contacts, gcal (through nuevasync) for my calendar and now I guess lotus for my tasks - remarkably inelegant but I guess I have little choice.
I have never switched to Zoho, but I prob would if I didn't work for self, and someone else just took care of moving all my stuff there and just making it happen for me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am uncomfortable with having all my stuff in the cloud -I firmly believe that cloud services can only complement local services.. something like the office live solution. Tasks and calendar are something else - mostly because my choices are so limited
good luck with lotus, hope it works. sorry for my off-topic editorial ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol. Thanks. And absolutely zero hard feelings...

I learned a lot from you on this thread, though i didn't help you at all
I hear you re information per screen, information density
Okay, i admit that mny T-mobile wing running WM 6.1 with custom rom from Ivan here at XDA just kicked ass, and still does. Funny but it has better version of google maps than google maps on my hero android phone.. i surely don't get that.
For me, having that stylus tucked in, avail at moment's need, AND using finger nav is best of all worlds. in the car, with my t-mobile wing mounted, i could actually safely make a call... but without finger nav, i'd crash and kill self with just a stylus and tiny target. so we'll agree that it all boils down to: what are your purposes for the device... all of them. in all conditions...
only then are comparisons valid. if any phone meets all a user's needs, then it's the best phone period for that person.
thanks again,
so i guess you won't be getting the Nexus Two any time soon, huh?
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quicksite said:
For me, having that stylus tucked in, avail at moment's need, AND using finger nav is best of all worlds. in the car, with my t-mobile wing mounted, i could actually safely make a call... but without finger nav, i'd crash and kill self with just a stylus and tiny target. so we'll agree that it all boils down to: what are your purposes for the device... all of them. in all conditions...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My old gene had a D-Pad. And WM 6.1 was VERY D-Pad friendly. If I ever needed to use the phone one-handed I just used to use the D-Pad and the softkeys.
The modern WM phones lack this too (hence my statement of only WM standard rocking now)
only then are comparisons valid. if any phone meets all a user's needs, then it's the best phone period for that person.
thanks again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
,
Very true. In the end, I want my phone to help me get things done, not as an entertainment device or anything else. Hence my statement about WM standard rocking. Copilot live, for example, has a great interface - its actually faster than using a touchscreen and needs less involvement.
so i guess you won't be getting the Nexus Two any time soon, huh?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a student in the US without and aid. Hence no. Not a chance in hell unless I get a ton of cash.
I suspect my next phone will be WM7 (my Jack's contract is only a few months old).. leaves plenty of time for WM 7 to release and for a decent app market to develop.
I hope.
Or else I'll go for whichever android device I can find (I need multitasking - this basically kills the Iphone)

I feel i am compelled to respond to a nit with a nit , hah ha. re:
charge1313 said:
My old gene had a D-Pad. And WM 6.1 was VERY D-Pad friendly. If I ever needed to use the phone one-handed I just used to use the D-Pad and the softkeys. The modern WM phones lack this too (hence my statement of only WM standard rocking now)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here again i agree. My T-Mobile Wing's hard key layout and D-pad has been the most ergonomically useful and hence fastest phone to use of any i have ever used in stores, trying out friends' stuff, etc.
I had its predecessor, the MDA, and the Wing completely became an ergonomic pleasure to use. whether I used my left hand or my right hand, the additional hard keys on sides of the phone, plus the bottom of the phone, hit exactly in the right spots re hands, finger, thumbs. And though it was mostly a remake of the MDA (both HTC phones), the Wing nailed it for me where the MDA was, pardon the expression, a piece of crap for me, though also my first touchscreen phone.
So, once again i hear ya re the relative efficiences of using dpad and dedicated hard keys that can be reassignable. My "OK" button map mapped to the top right of the phone where the defauilt Comm Manager button was -- and when holding in my left hand, my middle finger was right there on it. Same finger could slide down just a bit to hit the other dedicated button, which i mapped to voice recorder, since I recorded audio notes frequenty.
My thumb was on the camera button which i remapped to Start menu. Sliding my thumb down to the D-pad was smooth, no bumps at all, and instant recognitoon even in the dark what the functions were and so easy to press in quad direction, then click enter/center. Similarly the ergonomic design of the Call button and end button, and the 2 additional keys around each, was just the height of ergonomic perfection. No way of mistaking which key was which, yet a slight shift in any direction and the desired key was hit perpectly, and not requiring a lot ofpressure.. just the right amount, plus tactile feedback with hardware clicks for certainty of entry. The okay button doen there by the end call i remapped to "Today", which always made home screen 1-click away for times when an app didn't have an easy-access close-button.
Im used WKtask -- which not enough people use in my view.. one of thebest UI utilities besides QuickMenu... my thumb could easily arc to top of the taskbar to tap an icon to switch tasks, or press-hold to end any app, or minimize any app, thus guiving me extra manual control over memory management, and closing apps, or quickly switching to them.
Sliding out the keyboard was so simple because the left fingers wrapped around the device were already positiioned to push the top screen to reveal the keyboard. Everyuthing fit in the hand perfectly...
Which leads to my last comment... I love my new HTC Hero for its size and ergonomics.. I have not used yet some of these new larger screen devices but if the WING and the HERO fit perfectly into my hand in its natural resting position of fingers, then it seems logical to guess that larger device require a wider grasp -- even if miniscule, which activates all sort of other micro-muscles in fingers, thumb, and palm of hand --
I am guessing there will be not one person who will ever fess up that a larger device results in some slight or more-than-slight greater muscular fatigue of the hand and repetitive stress.
So even though you're focus is on WM6 - THE KING! -- my focus is on how HTC learned to optimize the controls of WM6, making the WING, for example, a phenomenal exmaple of product design.
Now since lots of HTC devices held similar footprimnts, maybe lots of HTC devices had the same kind of ergonomic optimization as the WING, prob so.
I can just speak to the wing.... So, there is no way I would credit WM alone for the usability "sweet spot" you have liked. Without great product design, you'd have tossed your phone in the trash long ago. We'll never know that for sure, so I can't bet you on it. But i would if i could.
thanks again for a truly rare discussion about human usability vs whiz-bang. Way too little of the former occupies this site, way more the latter dominates the site.

Try the my Funambol service - http://my.funambol.com , free

I wish the mods could SPLIT this thread - to preserve the "future of WM"
The off-topic discussion here was prob of more use than the initial intent by charge1313. And even though there have been many many MANY threads on WM's survivability as a player platform, this discussion moved to hardware as well, and to the trend of more and more elimination of hardware buttons placed strategically around the device's to enable your fingers to control many things besides the screen.
just my opinion ... but I have many of them .. so i am sure the world is fine without a split thread

Here again i agree. My T-Mobile Wing's hard key layout and D-pad has been the most ergonomically useful and hence fastest phone to use of any i have ever used in stores, trying out friends' stuff, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The same can be said of my gene. With a custom 6.1 rom (for here, of course) it was the fastest smartphone anyone I knew had. Despite having a lousey 200mghz processor and next to no ram. Of course, thats also because I ran it overclocked to 247 Mghz.
It had a ton of configurable keys - most of them configured to do a whole series of context based events via mortscript.
So, once again i hear ya re the relative efficiences of using dpad and dedicated hard keys that can be reassignable. My "OK" button map mapped to the top right of the phone where the defauilt Comm Manager button was -- and when holding in my left hand, my middle finger was right there on it. Same finger could slide down just a bit to hit the other dedicated button, which i mapped to voice recorder, since I recorded audio notes frequenty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neat. Did you use mortscript?
My thumb was on the camera button which i remapped to Start menu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly like my gene. Except there I had it mapped to a task manager.
Boy, did they know how to build phones back in the day.
Im used WKtask -- which not enough people use in my view.. one of thebest UI utilities besides QuickMenu... my thumb could easily arc to top of the taskbar to tap an icon to switch tasks, or press-hold to end any app, or minimize any app, thus guiving me extra manual control over memory management, and closing apps, or quickly switching to them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've used both - several of my favorite roms actually came with WKtask by default. But in the end I found that simply using the default 6.1 task manager was the lightest and the best.
Still, I've jumped back and forth between using WKtask, Quickmenu etc enough times to know how awesome they were.
And this, again, brings me back to why my jack rocks. I can open up a site or an app from the home screen and actually do something useful (like, say, check my tasks on agenda one) faster than an android device (htc dream) or an ipod touch/iphone.
Without great product design, you'd have tossed your phone in the trash long ago. We'll never know that for sure, so I can't bet you on it. But i would if i could.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second that. HTC's design was brilliant. And so was Samsung's with the blackjacks and the jack. IMO the current crop of WM devices are a result of misguided logic. Microsoft and HTC have looked at the success of the iphone and created a hybrid system which lacks the strengths of either. Thats their failing - trying to do something they were never good while ignoring their awesome lead in actual productivity and flexibility.
Seriously, take a dell axim and see how well you can do stuff with it. I bet if microsoft had put their efforts into making WM 7 the natural progression of the WM series (exclude 6.5 please) it would be out by now and a device like the touch pro would completely kick the iphone in terms of general usage.
The off-topic discussion here was prob of more use than the initial intent by charge1313. And even though there have been many many MANY threads on WM's survivability as a player platform, this discussion moved to hardware as well, and to the trend of more and more elimination of hardware buttons placed strategically around the device's to enable your fingers to control many things besides the screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I won't argue against this. The original intent of this thread has largely been satisfied.
I've found an exchange class solution for my needs
If the mods think its sensible to split this thread then please do so..

[Q] WP7: is it productive ?

it is interesting to follow the hype of WP7. i am not a fan of 'early adopter' idea. I am looking for a replacement of my good old HTC touch diamond and still searching some infos regarding WP7 from forums which received several negative feedbacks. I would like to hear from the WP7 power user how i could do the following equivalent tasks in the winmo 6.1 since i use it productively at work and rely heavily on them:
1. Excel Mobile: edit excel file either on the go or on pc to analyse the result graphically and sometimes show it to the client. a sync using mobsync would be done before switching the edit from mobile to pc or vice versa
2. Automatic Call Recorder (ACR): automatically record 2-way call conversation without pressing any button. Useful for recording phone number without taking notes (you could just replay the record many times) or recording directions given by the boss
3. GPS navigation app with offline map and rerouting function: I often lose GSM signal while driving to the clients in remote areas. rerouting is useful if i need to drive to new client which area is unfamiliar and easily to get the wrong turn :-(
4. Sync all outlook + backup SMS data: i am using Activesync for the outlook & PPCPimBackup for the sms. i can get the whole data back from the past to the the latest after the ROM is upgraded e.g. i have 3000+ text messages
5. No data in the cloud - company policy: company data is not allowed to be stored in the cloud whatever the reason. i know it is ridiculous because data could be easily taken if the mobile phone is stolen
6. File explorer: to organise all types of files in the internal storage

nope, wp7 will not fit your needs at all. I would look for a used hd2 if you want newer hardware.

budsant said:
it is interesting to follow the hype of WP7. i am not a fan of 'early adopter' idea. I am looking for a replacement of my good old HTC touch diamond and still searching some infos regarding WP7 from forums which received several negative feedbacks. I would like to hear from the WP7 power user how i could do the following equivalent tasks in the winmo 6.1 since i use it productively at work and rely heavily on them:
1. Excel Mobile: edit excel file either on the go or on pc to analyse the result graphically and sometimes show it to the client. a sync using mobsync would be done before switching the edit from mobile to pc or vice versa
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Has Excel.
2. Automatic Call Recorder (ACR): automatically record 2-way call conversation without pressing any button. Useful for recording phone number without taking notes (you could just replay the record many times) or recording directions given by the boss
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is potentially illegal.
3. GPS navigation app with offline map and rerouting function: I often lose GSM signal while driving to the clients in remote areas. rerouting is useful if i need to drive to new client which area is unfamiliar and easily to get the wrong turn :-(
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would have to buy an app for this. Google/Bing Navigation isn't offline. I don't think TeleNav is, either. Personally, I would recommend a dedicated GPS system if this is what you need. Nokia phones come with Offline Map capabilities, and there are some apps (may get released soon) which offer it. But it's not a stock function and don't expect Microsoft to offer such a thing in Bing. These things take up a ton of storage space on you device, as well.
4. Sync all outlook + backup SMS data: i am using Activesync for the outlook & PPCPimBackup for the sms. i can get the whole data back from the past to the the latest after the ROM is upgraded e.g. i have 3000+ text messages
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No ( <- forgot that important 2 letter word unintentionally) Sync via USB to outlook. ActiveSync/DeltaSync keeps everything in Sync, anyways. Dunno why anyone keeps that many texts, but Microsoft will roll out Devices.Live.com for WP7 which will allow you to do almost all of what MyPhone offered for Windows Mobile - that includes backing up text messages.
5. No data in the cloud - company policy: company data is not allowed to be stored in the cloud whatever the reason. i know it is ridiculous because data could be easily taken if the mobile phone is stolen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Company data does not get stored in the cloud. It's sync'd via the Exchange server the same way Windows Mobile, iOS, Android, and Blackberries Sync it. Windows Phone 7 supports Exchange Remote Wipe.
Your camera roll gets automatically Sync'd to SkyDrive, but why would you take uber sekret company photos on a smartphone, anyways...
6. File explorer: to organise all types of files in the internal storage
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't count on it. The OS organizes things for you into Libraries. This really isn't needed that much. I dunno why people keep asking for it when Microsoft made it pretty clear that it isn't coming. WP7 isn't the only smartphone OS that doesn't have a File Manager in it.
@ Thread Title: Productivity is subjective and depends on what the person does on his/her device. You haven't really give anyone a clue as to what you do on you device, so it's hard to tell if it'll be productive to you. All you've done was put a tacky title on yet another "this is what I want for WP7. Is it there, is it coming, why isn't it there, etc." thread.
That may sound a bit harsh. Not intentionally. But that's basically what it is.
Windows Phone 7 is way more productive than Windows Mobile, generally speaking. Anything except maybe Blackberry OS and Symbian^3 is more productive than Windows Mobile.

N8ter said:
Has Excel.
This is potentially illegal.
Would have to buy an app for this. Google/Bing Navigation isn't offline. I don't think TeleNav is, either. Personally, I would recommend a dedicated GPS system if this is what you need. Nokia phones come with Offline Map capabilities, and there are some apps (may get released soon) which offer it. But it's not a stock function and don't expect Microsoft to offer such a thing in Bing. These things take up a ton of storage space on you device, as well.
Sync via USB to outlook. ActiveSync/DeltaSync keeps everything in Sync, anyways. Dunno why anyone keeps that many texts, but Microsoft will roll out Devices.Live.com for WP7 which will allow you to do almost all of what MyPhone offered for Windows Mobile - that includes backing up text messages.
Company data does not get stored in the cloud. It's sync'd via the Exchange server the same way Windows Mobile, iOS, Android, and Blackberries Sync it. Windows Phone 7 supports Exchange Remote Wipe.
Your camera roll gets automatically Sync'd to SkyDrive, but why would you take uber sekret company photos on a smartphone, anyways...
Don't count on it. The OS organizes things for you into Libraries. This really isn't needed that much. I dunno why people keep asking for it when Microsoft made it pretty clear that it isn't coming. WP7 isn't the only smartphone OS that doesn't have a File Manager in it.
@ Thread Title: Productivity is subjective and depends on what the person does on his/her device. You haven't really give anyone a clue as to what you do on you device, so it's hard to tell if it'll be productive to you. All you've done was put a tacky title on yet another "this is what I want for WP7. Is it there, is it coming, why isn't it there, etc." thread.
That may sound a bit harsh. Not intentionally. But that's basically what it is.
Windows Phone 7 is way more productive than Windows Mobile, generally speaking. Anything except maybe Blackberry OS and Symbian^3 is more productive than Windows Mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you spent way too much time on that response to someone who obviously has no intention of getting a wp7 device.
But a great response none the less...

nrfitchett4 said:
you spent way too much time on that response to someone who obviously has no intention of getting a wp7 device.
But a great response none the less...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong attitude. He wants to know if he can use new OS and do things he needs to do.

doministry said:
Wrong attitude. He wants to know if he can use new OS and do things he needs to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He could have read any of the 400 reviews on this OS in its infancy and figured that out.

cloudy cloudy
@N8ter: thanks for the explanation. WP7 is connection data intensive, it needs a good data plan
@nrfitchett4: wow, i can feel the heat from your replies. calm down... anyway, i think older gadget such ad hd2 is more suitable for me (though i don't like its battery capacity for the huge display). you are right
@All others: any other opinions ?
my opinion: i get the feeling that without a good network coverage & signal the newer OSes (android/wp7/iphone) will reduce its ability to perform even a simple task. we are getting dependent a lot on the cloud

budsant said:
@N8ter: thanks for the explanation. WP7 is connection data intensive, it needs a good data plan
@nrfitchett4: wow, i can feel the heat from your replies. calm down... anyway, i think older gadget such ad hd2 is more suitable for me (though i don't like its battery capacity for the huge display). you are right
@All others: any other opinions ?
my opinion: i get the feeling that without a good network coverage & signal the newer OSes (android/wp7/iphone) will reduce its ability to perform even a simple task. we are getting dependent a lot on the cloud
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry. Not trying to flame, just a lot of hate threads hear lately. Honestly for what you want to do, an hd2 is probably your best. Mature OS with high end device specs. Extended battery is available if you can stand the hump it will add, or carrying a spare battery is what I did with my tp2.

budsant said:
@N8ter: thanks for the explanation. WP7 is connection data intensive, it needs a good data plan
@nrfitchett4: wow, i can feel the heat from your replies. calm down... anyway, i think older gadget such ad hd2 is more suitable for me (though i don't like its battery capacity for the huge display). you are right
@All others: any other opinions ?
my opinion: i get the feeling that without a good network coverage & signal the newer OSes (android/wp7/iphone) will reduce its ability to perform even a simple task. we are getting dependent a lot on the cloud
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am poweruser of WM considering it's features as top.
And than I bought WP which I use for 3 weeks.
First, it's not true WP7 will not work without data transfer.
Mine works exactly like it should with data off. I mean it requires transfer for the things which need it anyway like email, browser etc.
I don't buy music from the marketplace...
Yes there are some apps which are connection based like translators ect. and I would love to see it offline too.
Now productivity - it's a question of what you really need.
In fact WP7 with Office and OneNote built in is very productive.
I love the platform for it's power and execution.
However I do miss things from WM. Android is unnacceptable UI wise....
So I am staying with WP7 if Microsoft will add more features to it.
If not - it will be tough call.
Now feeling how WP7 works I don't want to step back and everything else FEELS like a step backwards. And I hope I will not be forced to do it.
But my WM6.5 device is still with me ready to come back.

Well Said
doministry said:
I am poweruser of WM considering it's features as top.
And than I bought WP which I use for 3 weeks.
First, it's not true WP7 will not work without data transfer.
Mine works exactly like it should with data off. I mean it requires transfer for the things which need it anyway like email, browser etc.
I don't buy music from the marketplace...
Yes there are some apps which are connection based like translators ect. and I would love to see it offline too.
Now productivity - it's a question of what you really need.
In fact WP7 with Office and OneNote built in is very productive.
I love the platform for it's power and execution.
However I do miss things from WM. Android is unnacceptable UI wise....
So I am staying with WP7 if Microsoft will add more features to it.
If not - it will be tough call.
Now feeling how WP7 works I don't want to step back and everything else FEELS like a step backwards. And I hope I will not be forced to do it.
But my WM6.5 device is still with me ready to come back.
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Well said. I still have my HTC FUZE, in fact the SIM card I used in my new Samsung Focus was the one I used in the FUZE. I can insert it back into the FUZE anytime I want to. But, even though I used WM for years, and tweaked it, customized it, loaded 4 new Radio ROMs and 5 custom ROMs, I am staying with the WP7 phone. For me, it is smoother, faster, and everything is well integrated. I am looking forward to updates and new features, but for now, it is an awesome experience. I now realize that I had loaded up my WM 6.5.5 phone with a lot of crap I never used and don't miss now. OK, I understand that people want the "right" to load their phone up with "Crap" they'll never use, and some "Crap" they will use, and for those, they'll have to wait on WP7 or remain with WM or some other OS, and that's fine. Personally, I would have loved WM still being upgraded on the latest hardware, I would have stayed with that, I think. But having moved to WP7, I won't go back.

nrfitchett4 said:
you spent way too much time on that response to someone who obviously has no intention of getting a wp7 device.
But a great response none the less...
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it was time very well spent. N8ter's post answered my questions without me having to make a new thread.

thebranded said:
it was time very well spent. N8ter's post answered my questions without me having to make a new thread.
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+1
its good to see wm users experiences and questions about a possible up/down grade to wp.
very useful stuff.

Touching on N8ter's point on libraries and file managers... If you think about it, those libraries ARE file managers, and are actually more effective than a file manager would be. The only thing, which will be fixed with W8 and Mango working together, is better SkyDrive integration so you have a much easier way of syncing your files. I mean, I honestly have never used my phone as a flash drive, and the only reason I ever used a file manager in the past was for .cab files... Which we don't need any more.
But, I can't wait for SkyDrive to work as it needs to coming up, I think THAT is my most important feature coming considering I'm a student and would make my life significantly easier. I do see an ability to hook up the phone to a PC in the future and Word automatically recognize your Word files on a WinPhone device though... Not as a mass storage, as an additional "library" for files... If you understand what I mean here.

Libraries aren't a file manager. It isn't a replacement, either. There's no control over a library. It's an automatic classification of media on the device based on the media type. You can't take a private file and put it somewhere on the device where it will not show up in a Library, and that's an issue for some people. If you have any private documents/images/videos on your phone, it's hard to let anyone who thinks the phone looks interesting play with it because all of those files are right there in plain sight in the Hubs, so you have to tell them to go to a Carrier store if they wanna play with one. That's not an issue on i.e. an Android phone because you can hide the file in a nested folder and set it so that the folder's files are not displayed in the Gallery.
Also, the lack of a file manager is keeping things like BT File transfer and File Transfer in IM applications out at the moment, and it make sit ridiculously hard to put files on the device and keep them organized.
One of the best features of Android Office applications is their integrated file manager and Cloud Integration.
SkyDrive will be nice, but without a decent file manager Office will still be worthless to me because there's no way I'm putting all my files on SkyDrive. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I have 5 computers here and do not need Microsoft to hold my files. I like my stuff to be organized, and I don't want everything on the internet... Skydrive also doesn't have the best file type support for Synching...
Do you back up your camera roll to SkyDrive automatically?

N8ter said:
Libraries aren't a file manager. It isn't a replacement, either. There's no control over a library. It's an automatic classification of media on the device based on the media type. You can't take a private file and put it somewhere on the device where it will not show up in a Library, and that's an issue for some people. If you have any private documents/images/videos on your phone, it's hard to let anyone who thinks the phone looks interesting play with it because all of those files are right there in plain sight in the Hubs, so you have to tell them to go to a Carrier store if they wanna play with one. That's not an issue on i.e. an Android phone because you can hide the file in a nested folder and set it so that the folder's files are not displayed in the Gallery.
Also, the lack of a file manager is keeping things like BT File transfer and File Transfer in IM applications out at the moment, and it make sit ridiculously hard to put files on the device and keep them organized.
One of the best features of Android Office applications is their integrated file manager and Cloud Integration.
SkyDrive will be nice, but without a decent file manager Office will still be worthless to me because there's no way I'm putting all my files on SkyDrive. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I have 5 computers here and do not need Microsoft to hold my files. I like my stuff to be organized, and I don't want everything on the internet... Skydrive also doesn't have the best file type support for Synching...
Do you back up your camera roll to SkyDrive automatically?
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Bluetooth transfer isn't implemented because Microsoft hasn't yet, not because of any other reason. You could go to any file, or picture, and select Share, and the option could be there, regardless of library. I mean, by that theory, there shouldn't be any method of sharing then. You do it in text messaging at the moment, and in Who's Near Me, it's just the apps haven't implemented them.
If things on your phone are that important, there is a password option. I personally don't let anybody touch my phone. I think my texts are far more 'secret' than any document I can put on my phone, to be honest, but that's just me. I would though like folders in Office to sort out my documents, this may come with the new integration though. I would also like to option to protect the documents as I do on my computer.
As far as putting files on the device, I'm for the whole "only supported files" allowed deal. But, look back at my post, I would like to see something along the lines of: Plug my phone into the computer, open word, and it's there as an extension. Same with other Microsoft applications. Pictures and Music are already done through Zune.
I think I'm also on a different end of the spectrum than you are. Personally I keep all my files on my home network. I also access it remotely. So, full SkyDrive integration would be amazing in my eyes. I'm already at risk connecting to the internet, pretty sure Microsoft can do a better job than me at protecting my files. I already use SkyDrive on my phone through the mobile site too, it's just a hassle in dropping them into the folder I created on my computer, and then downloading them on my phone. This being done automatically would be amazing.
But as far as using it as a storage device for files the phone has no need for, I don't like that idea personally. You have to remember the types of users that are being marketed here. I think something along what I suggested would be best. Security just needs to be upped a little. Let me password protect certain files and I'm fine.
And no, I don't automatically put them on SkyDrive... I think mainly out of habit. But 99% of my pictures go on Facebook the second I snap them. And I use Photobucket quite often... If my Live friends were large in number I'm pretty sure my SkyDrive would be full of public photos.

From all my research on WP7 and HTC HD7, yes it seems very strenuous to do the things we used could do on other 'smartphones' ... Ever since apple came out with the 'app' world... things are being followed(android, Ms).. But what i think is, that with Win 8 on the Horizon, the app world is here to stay, and it shouldn't be a surprise when it will come to, what you can run on your PC, u can also run it on ur mobile... I don't know if such interface has happened with Apple and the Macs and the pods n phones to do that... Google is doing more with chrome to do that with their android... so, will they still have to sit upon other os's to accomplish this or as I think I've heard they are making their own Os... Future stats shows, Apple is on a downhill trend and Android to follow... In reading in MSN today, Android phones are being introduced with viruses, such as the one that will sit on your phone and send all your data to some phone numbers in china... So Android glory days maybe not so great... As the veterans have stood longer then the newbies...
just a thought

[Q] Help me pick a phone. Please.

(long post warning...I'm placing the summary first for those who don't care to read the whole thing)
***
In summary, I want a mobile platform that I can tweak until I get it exactly as I like it; that will sync with Windows desktop and server platforms (this is a strong preference, not a "must"; upon which I own things and don't have to worry about them being stolen or broken; that doesn't tell everyone and their mother where I go and what I'm doing; and on which I can listen to Sirius radio; and to which I can transfer data back and forth via USB without any permission based cloud interface. It must also be compatible with Slingplayer software and I have a strong, strong, preference for a slideout QWERTY keyboard, but I'd sacrifice that if I have to for the above functionalities. I'm currently on ATT, but it doesn't have to be that way
***
I am thinking about purchasing a new phone. But the market is a bit more complicated than when I purchased my current phone (HTC Diamond), so I hope that you guys can give me some advice.
I have been a Windows Mobile user since 5.0. What I loved about WM is that I could come here and read about the various hacks, mods, and custom roms and generally find something to address any problems I had, or find a way to modify the phone to meet my preferences.
I love the mobile version of Office and I use it constantly for work purposes. I especially like being able to sync outlook contacts on both phone and device, and that I can make presentations from the phone, and can open and manipulate Word and Excel.
I was also using SiriusXM 6 by tcbush over on Geekstoolbox to listen to satellite radio. Unfortunately, Sirius has taken down their legacy servers that streamed content to third party providers. So it does not appear that I can listen to satellite radio any longer via my mobile device.
It is this turn of events (Sirius radio) that is my main motivator for seeking a new phone. I could listen to Sirius via the web, but that requires a Flash player and I can't find a version of flash for WM 6.1. I have both Opera Mini and IE. So, if any of you know a way for a WM 6.1 device to listen to Sirius, you will have solved my immediate problem and saved me some money. I would really appreciate that.
But on the larger scale, I know that one day I will have to replace my beloved Diamond. Her slideout QWERTY is starting to jiggle, there are a few scratches on her beautiful face even though she hasn't gone a moment without a case and screen protector. Every now and again her D-Pad loses its way, and I have to reboot. Alas, I fear the end is near. *sigh*
So, in looking over the current landscape, I see three options: iphone, Android, and WM7.
Apple products to me are out for personal preference reasons.
That leaves Android and WM7.
Problem 1:
I enjoyed my prior experience of owning a WM phone supported by a network of generous, friendly developers who found ways that we could modify our phones to our hearts' content. I also like the fact that I own my phone and all its content. Once I install or tweak something, then that's it unless I decide to change it.
But the current market seems to be based on a top-down control model. From what I've read, owning a phone with the current tech is like owning a home on leasehold property or in a HOA: You pay full price for ownership but you do not enjoy the rights of control normally associated with that ownership. It seems that the devices are locked, difficult to unlock, find ways to re-lock, and that a Nanny-server may at times uninstall or disable software that it doesn't like.
I just don't get it. Has the culture embraced a model where a user pays a provider only to be told by that provider what he can and cannot do with the property he has purchased?
Of course, my perception of these issues could be incorrect. I recently went back to school and have unplugged from most external things. I haven't been following the "insider info" on xda for nearly two years. If I'm wrong, please tell me.
Problem 2:
User tracking. Sounds Orwellian.
I get it that the cell provider can locate you. I understand the technology reasonably well for regular Joe, and I understand that the network needs to know where you are. But until recently, the cell provider could not release those records without a warrant or some emergency confirmed by law enforcement like a lost person, etc. I actually worked with Sprint in conjunction with the police to attempt to track a stolen phone. However, it now appears that the manufacturers themselves and many app developers are bypassing the law by tracking users without their consent. Am I right on this?
I've read a number of articles on the Apple and Android tracking problems - generic apps tracking you and reporting your movements to Apple, Google, etc. Apps turning on the mic or camera at intervals and tracking your surroundings or conversations. Route these concerns through the awfulness of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, the Patriot Act, and the fact that both the post-digital presidential administrations (Bush II and Obama) seem intent on eroding what remains of our privacy, and it makes me uncomfortable. To make it worse, Google and Zuckerburg are both in bed with the Obama administration, and stories of their privacy infractions are epidemic.
Yet none of the progs I use on my WM 6.1 device use tracking (that I know of). So, in a very short time, it appears that the culture of mobile communications has gone from an ownership model with Constitutional protections to a free-for-all where you essentially pay big brother to track you.
I have heard many of my younger friends who have grown up in the big-government era use the default: "If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about." But that's exactly backward. The law presumes your privacy and allows infractions only after due process. The current culture seems to presume lack of privacy, and treat privacy-seekers as an anomaly. And the tech seems to reflect the culture rather than the law.
Am I crazy? Even if I am crazy, is there a way to block this tracking? And, if so, does Android or WM7 better lend itself to blocking this tracking?
Problem 3:
USB data transfer.
WM7 doesn't support smart cards. But, the devices seem to have adequate on-board storage for my needs. However, from what I've read, I'll need to use Zune (on WM7, don't know about Android) to move data back and forth. Is that correct?
I currently use Windows Mobile Device Center to transfer files back and forth via USB or Bluetooth, and I really want to keep that functionality.
Thank you if you have read this far. And, given those criteria, what are my best options?

Droid X2. Get it.

Droid X2
Droid X2. Get it.
+1

Thanks for the responses. I've done a bit of research on the phone you recommended, and some research in general. I really need to spool back up
It looks like there are apps out there like WhisperMonitor that will help with my privacy concerns. Actually, it looks like there are Android Apps to address most of my concerns.
I'll keep researching that to determine how much functionality I'll have to sacrifice. And I appreciate the responses. Love the dual core structure of this phone. From what I've read, the benchmarks don't differ too much from single core phones, but it looks like the dual core really helps with load distribution and multi-tasking.
It will be hard to leave Windows...been with it since it was Pocket PC 2000. But atm, it appears that Android may work best for me.

I agree Droid X2, although VZW is expensive, its the best network

Off the basis of wanting a slide out QWERTY and Windows Phone 7, I would go with the HTC Arrive for Sprint. You still have Windows Phone, you can get Sling Player from the Marketplace, and it has a slide out QWERTY that when it slides out, angles the screen for better typing the way I look at it.

samsung galaxy s2
or atrix

If you QWERTY I'd wait till my4g slide if it launches with s-off. I don't imagine you'd be keeping the os in tact.
The g2 is also a beautiful phone. Amazing specs for the good hardware.
T-Mobile is also cheapest, I find, of the four carriers.
The epic 4g seemed nice. Hummingbird (Samsung 1ghz processor) is very nice and has a great gpu.
If you're looking to use google talk video chat, avoid nvidia tegra 2 chips.
Google's suite of software is pretty sweet. Google docs works nice, and there's an app for that.
As long as you download from android market you're good from malware. (If you do get it from market, google does pull the app from the store AND your phone, that's the only time I heard them doing this, and that was once instance.)
Besides... Supporting your developers is a great thing.
Did I miss anything?
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App

IMO almost any of the android phones would work for what you have in mind. As you pointed out in your follow up post there are apps out there for your privacy concerns. I've had a Moto Droid and now the HTC Thunderbolt. Both have been synced with my works exchange servers with no issues, google apps work great with Office docs, and the available roms and other customizations are almost endless.
Also, don't get hung up on a QWERTY keyboard. I swore I would never have a phone without one, but now that I do I actually don't really miss it.
Edit:
USB data transfer - very simple to do with android. Install a driver for the phone and then connect to your pc with a USB cable. Your pc will recognize the sdcard as removeable storage. Just select it in My Computer and drag and drop anything you want to move like you would for moving any file around in Windows.