Hello all,
Sorry for the silly question but I am trying to find out my stock build level in my G-tab. Have noticed all the warnings about the build level but don't know how to find the stock build.
In my Settings, About Tablet, Tap UI Version only reads my Rom version, TnT Lite v4.2.4.
I like the new look of the TNT Lite 5.0. but need to confirm that I have 3588 before I make any changes.
Thanks in advance.
bevbeng,
Honestly, if you have not reached the point in the learning curve where you can find and understand the "build level" yet, you may want to hold off a while. Somehow you
have gotten to TNT Lite, but.....
I have 5.0.0 on one of my tablets and it is nice, but it was a challenge to install. I wouldn't recommend trying it until you thoroughly understand all aspects of flashing and nvflashing so as to not wind up with a problem you can't solve.
BTW, you are running TNT Lite. That is not stock -- it is a custom ROM. To get back to 3588 you are going to have to find the 3588 stock rom, download and install it. Once you have done that, then you can look at 5.0.0 when you are ready.
Rev
Thanks. However, it still doesn't help me to find the factory build level in my tablet.
Maybe I don't understand, but I thought you were looking for "Build Level" in the context of whether your tablet is ready to flash 5.0.0.
If that's what you mean, you need to have the 3588 update loaded as you noted.
Your tablet is not now compatible because TNT Lite is not "stock" software. It is a custom ROM.
To get to a "stock" machine that meets the prerequisites for 5.0.0 -- you will have to download a copy of the 3588 upgrade. It can be found in these forums with a quick search. Then you will have to do a standard install/flash.
Once the 3588 is installed, it will have removed the TNT Lite you now have -- and the correct rom and recovery files should be there.
Again, I hope this helps.
Rev
P. S. -- I have never heard of "Build Level" as being something you can find in the various screens in the tablet. There is a "Build number" on the "Settings" screen for "About tablet" but I've never seen it say anything except "FRF91" and I'm not even sure what that means!
bevbeng said:
Hello all,
Sorry for the silly question but I am trying to find out my stock build level in my G-tab. Have noticed all the warnings about the build level but don't know how to find the stock build.
In my Settings, About Tablet, Tap UI Version only reads my Rom version, TnT Lite v4.2.4.
I like the new look of the TNT Lite 5.0. but need to confirm that I have 3588 before I make any changes.
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TnT Lite 4.2.4 is a custom rom modified from a ViewSonic Tap-n-Tap stock rom. You will not find the ViewSonic stock information directly by going to the About Tablet section in Settings. You need to follow the thread to know what has been done. Even though TnT Lite 4.2.4 was modified from the 3588/3589 stock rom from ViewSonic, you need to reflash your Gtab to 3588 stock before you reflash it to TnT Lite 5.0.0. ViewSonic made major changes to the boot.img. If you follow these steps to the letter (refer to the link below), TnT Lite 5.0.0 will install successfully. As a caution, many folks had to nvflash do to issues during the install. Be prepared for that situation.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11988658&postcount=3732
Butch1326 said:
TnT Lite 4.2.4 is a custom rom modified from a ViewSonic Tap-n-Tap stock rom. You will not find the ViewSonic stock information directly by going to the About Tablet section in Settings. You need to follow the thread to know what has been done. Even though TnT Lite 4.2.4 was modified from the 3588/3589 stock rom from ViewSonic, you need to reflash your Gtab to 3588 stock before you reflash it to TnT Lite 5.0.0. ViewSonic made major changes to the boot.img. If you follow these steps to the letter (refer to the link below), TnT Lite 5.0.0 will install successfully. As a caution, many folks had to nvflash do to issues during the install. Be prepared for that situation.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11988658&postcount=3732
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the exact answer I was looking for. Many thanks.
I was in the process of flashing TnT Lite v5.0.0 on my Viewsonic Gtab and all was going well. Got the Viewsonic screen, then the message that a recovery key was pressed and then booting recovery kernel image. Then the screen changed to a graphic of a package being updated with a progress bar.
Unfortunately, I let go of the Power and volume + key before the progress bar finished. When I realized I had to hold the key sequence longer, I quickly tried pressing both the Power and volume + key sequence again. This led to the screen turning black and then I got the familiar messages, "Booting recovery kernel image."
From that point it hangs indefinitely.
I did ensure I was using TnT build 3588 before I attempted flashing with TnT Lite 5.0.0.
Is there any way to recover from this state?
Any help is appreciated in advance.
Actually once the recovery starts you can release the buttons.
You're most likely going to have to use NVFlash to flash a stock ROM. Update that and then reflash 5.0.
sabre2002,
A number of folks have had problems with the 5.0.0 install. But the advice Cannibul gave you about holding the buttons only until the recovery starts is good.
You will need to use NVFlash to recover -- and that's not too bad except that you need to be prepared and understand the process.
First, go back to Roebeet's original 5.0.0 thread and read all the parts of the instructions about "what if problems happen" again.
Then go to the NVFlash Recovery thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=861950
and read it thoroughly. There are a couple of links in it to threads where several of us describe exactly how to get the stuff, set up and nvflash your
recovery.
Good luck to you. Know that a bunch of folks already have done the same thing,
so all is not lost.
Rev
P. S. -- There also is a thread I put near the top of the Developer Forum that provides additional info on the USB Drivers for the nvflashing if you need it.
Thanks, butchconner.
I found an earlier post of yours where you provide step by step instructions on using NVFlash to recover the G-Tablet to an old image.
It worked perfectly including getting the USB drivers for recognizing G-Tablet in APX mode (I was having difficulty with this last night).
Got the tablet up and running but had problems applying the TnT 3588 build update. However, I'll retry and re-read Roebeet's post as you suggested.
Thanks again for your help.
Update on progress
Ok ... I had a heck of a time getting the TnT build that was contained in the zip file from roebeet's post (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=861950) to update to the necessary build 3588 in order to apply the TnT Lite v5.0.0.
I tried multiple times, but each time the 3588 build update would error and I would have to nvflash all over again.
After a couple of times with this error, I decided to try the TnT update.zip provided in another of roebeet's post:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9362168&postcount=35
I copied all of the image files in the same directory where NVFlash was located on my Windows PC. It overwrote the bootloader.bin and the system.img and added 2 others (recovery.img and boot.img).
Ran the nvflash_gtablet.bat file again with the updated images and the gtab came back up as usual and it told me that it had been updated to build 3588.
However, don't believe it because when you check the Settings for the build number, it still shows an older build (2367 I think but don't quote me).
Clicked on the TnT Updates app and was prompted to download and install the build 3588 update again.
This time the update worked like a charm!
Not sure if this is really a useful workaround, but thought I would include it here just in case.
sabre2002,
When you do the nvflash as several of us have documented using Roebeet's files, your at the 2638 update.
Most of us have found that if you just activate the wifi on the 2638, VS Update almost immediately offers the OTA 3588 update from VS. Just let it download and install.
If not, the downloadable version of 3588 is in Roebeet's 5.0.0 thread I believe and you can put it and a new recovery/command file on your /sdcard and the power/volume- into recovery and install it.
Glad to hear you are on top of it all. Of course, I think all of us that "play" with these things really deep down inside know we are going to keep doing things and changing things around ------and some day something will happen again!
Rev
Loaded TnT Lite v5.0.0 successfully
I have TnT Lite v5.0.0 flashed on my Gtab now ... it's very nice. Much smoother than the stock TnT and access to the full Market is worth the price of admission.
Thanks for everyone's help ... it was fun flashing the new ROM and now I am familiar with nvflash in case I need it in the future.
I installed TnT 5.0.1 on my gTablet, and it's running like a charm. However, I would like to install Vegan-Tab 5.1.1 (or some other ones using ClockworkMod 0.8) and try a few things out. One of the caveats that Roebeet put in his TnT post is:
<quote>
- Also for 5.x.x users, flipping between mods will be more difficult, since 5.x.x changes the bootloader. To go to VEGAn, gADAM or any of the other mods will require an nvflash back to bekits 1105 image first, at least via the testing I've done.
</quote>
I have nvflashed the gTablet before when I accidentally semi-bricked it, so that's not the issue. (In fact, I found a rar somewhere with all required files in it---awesome!) My question is whether there is a way for me to make a full backup of my ROM (so TnT 5.0.1 with all apps and settings), so I can revert back to it should I choose to. Or is the only way for me to reinstall TnT 5.0.x fresh and then reinstall all apps (or restore them from Titanium backups)?
(I'm new to the Android world, so I apologize if there is an easy, obvious answer to this question.)
Thanks!
Ron
dutch_in_seattle,
As an early "nearly-bricker", I have been following 5.0.0 and 5.0.1 almost since the
beginning and have been trying to do all I can to help folks with problems. I also
have been trying to provide roebeet with material to help.
If I understand it well -- what roebeet has been saying is that the "3991"/5.0.0 stuff represents kind of a new generation and setup for the G-Tablet. It is the moving from the older generation to the newer that has caused all the problems.
The problems are that some of the underlying files have changed to newer versions and if you don't go to 3588 "completely stock" before going "up" -- you will have trouble jumping the gap!
I'm going to extrapolate from that -- that you should be careful going down too. If you are at 3991/5.0.x and want to go down, I would reload 3588 to make sure you
get a fully stock system with the older generation files -- and then I would install whatever old-generation rom you wish.
This is the best suggestion I can make based on several times up the system (with a couple of regressions nfflashing down for repairs!).
Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
Rev
EDIT: Thinking about it, I don't see anything wrong with my suggestion. But the quote with roebeet's comment to "nvflash back to bekits stock recovery version" probably
does add another layer of protection to the process. He certainly is more expert than me by far!
I've used nvflash before, so it's not so much that I'm worried I can't go back to Vegan-Tab or a different "older-generation" ROM. What I would like to do before going back is do a full system backup of TnT 5.0.1, with all my settings and apps, so I can easily revert to that Android environment if and when I want to, rather than having to reinstall TnT 5.x and then set up my environment again. I would normally restore using ClockworkMod, but you can't use this for TnT 5.x and I don't believe the new recovery mode has a restore option (but I could be wrong there).
Ron
I'm thinking you should be able to do a backup with the new clockwork recovery required for tnt, nvflash and start over with a new rom, then when you want to go back install tnt and the new clockwork from scratch and do a recovery from that point.
I have both 5.0.0 and 3991 tablets and since both are the "new" generation of software I wondered if roebeet's CWM for 5.0.0 version would work with 3991. My 3991 was totally stock. But I like that CWM has more tools to work with than the stock recovery.
So I installed CWM for 5.0.0 on my 3991 G-Tablet and it seems to be working fine.
I take roebeet's warnings about 3991 and where VS is going software-wise seriously, however, and so am not "assuming" anything for the future just because it works.
In fact, I am assuming I will have to flash back to stock 3588 for the real "OTA 3991" if and when it ever comes out. But I thought playing with CWM before
going back might be fun.
Use caution!
Rev
E D I T : Attention: At the time I wrote this, I did not know roebeet was going for fork the 5.0.0 version -- going to two versions (the previous old generation) 4.2.5 and a new TwoTapsX version.
This change does not affect the fact that the new generation CWM will work with 3991 as I have reported above. I assume it will NOT work with 4.2.5 since that is the old generation software -- and
I hesitate to say about the new TwoTapsX version (which I believe is simply a re-named 5.0.x) until I have updated to it and tested it. As above : Use Caution!!!
E D I T #2: Now TwoTapsX is pulled. There's a lot of discussion about what
is and isn't working. Honestly, though it works for me, I have heard a lot
about maybe CWM not working. I'm not going to recommend using it any more
on the new generation until we get some more positive, clarifying reports!!!
DOUBLE USE CAUTION!!!
nvflash is my anti-radiation pill.
Evo8IKON,
I understand.
The only thing about nvflash that is sad to me is that it took so long for me to try it. I think that mostly was because I just didn't have any info on where to start, how to set it up etc. And thank God most of that is available readily now.
It surely isn't any harder than learning how to run recovery from /sdcard, /sdcard2 and CWM!
Rev
3991 (TNT Lite 5.x / TwoTapsX pre-release) absolutely requires a new cwm. That's because the older versions will NOT work with the 3991 bootloader.
I have a TNTL 5x / 3991 / TTx friendly cwm in my TTx post.
(At the request of management). Even with all the unsticking / mod intervention and warnings up the wahzoo, there are still a lot of user problems. It may return in a week , but for now it is PULLED. The moderators have hidden the thread, at least for the short term.
For those of you on TNT Lite 5 / TTx, just keep using it and no worries. Once we know where VS is headed, I will have a plan to either ask you to downlevel or upgrade. Again, depending on what they do.
EDIT: For those of you who had issues, could you please write up the steps you used before it failed? It would help everyone to understand why there are so many problems with this 3991 stock / TNTL 5 / TTx. From the posts and PM's I've seen, the majority have been either:
1- The device was flashed with clockworkmod to 3991/TNTL5/TTx and gets stuck at the birds or
2- The device was being prepped to stock 3588 and recovery was broken, after the 3588 reversion.
But I'm hearing that others might have applied all the proper steps and still had problems. We're trying to gauge just where the problem lies with this 1.2 UAT of Viewsonic's.
From my own device, I know that clockworkmod flat-out does not work. That's because the BCT partition is being touched by standard recovery, which clockworkmod does not replicate (and seems to be required). But as long as I have a clean 3588 stock ROM running on my device, I have not had an issue upgrading to 3991/TNTL5/TTx, it has worked for me 100% of the time.
Stock 3991 / TNT Lite 5.xx / TTx .9x backout instructions:
There are two way I know of to back out of these:
- Flash to stock 3588. This assumes you have NOT added clockworkmod and have standard recovery. I have done this several times and never had a problem. Stock 3588 link: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=842000
- nvflash using bekit's 1105 image: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=861950. This is still the best way to back out, as far as I'm concerned. You can do a full erase first, to wipe user data as well, thread is here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=974422
NOOOOOOOOO. Hopefully VS will decide what they are going to do by the end of the month. I am enjoying TnT Lite 5.0 with no issues at all. Thank you for all your hard work Roebeet, it is unfortunate that so many have had problems with this.
Damnnn, was about to install it
Really sucks that people have had problems maybe people should read and then re-read instructions instead of jumping into things and just assuming devs and mods can help them out. They have a life and dont think that after putting in all the work in to create something they want to hear from whiny a$$, irresponsible people that probably caused their own problem
Now people, like me, that wanted to install cant. nice.
thank roebeet tho and all the other g tab devs
I'm running two tap x. 9.0.2 with absolutely no problems. Never did have any problems from the beginning of 5.0.0. I'm am ferry close to being a noob, but I just had the instructions up on my laptop and followed them step by step. Will the new version of clockwork work to go back to 3588 if nessacery?
Thanks for all your hard work Roebeet. I barely use my laptop now that I have this tab.
One of the obstacles I've had in the last 2 weeks is that this is a UAT, not a released firmware from Viewsonic - so its validity is in question (and understandably so). If they release it with the same bootloader and upgrade requirements, it's going to shake things up here a bit.
I still think the odds are that they will - from their standpoint, they are only supporting stock users so, as long as they can ensure that a user is on 3588 stock, then the upgrade should work. In our case, many of the issues were either getting from a mod to 3588 stock, or using clockworkmod by mistake. Viewsonic doesn't have to worry about either of those issues.
But, there's still the X-factor -- everything is 3588 stock and the upgrade still fails. That might be what's holding them back.
bkbrod said:
I'm running two tap x. 9.0.2 with absolutely no problems. Never did have any problems from the beginning of 5.0.0. I'm am ferry close to being a noob, but I just had the instructions up on my laptop and followed them step by step. Will the new version of clockwork work to go back to 3588 if nessacery?
Thanks for all your hard work Roebeet. I barely use my laptop now that I have this tab.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, clockworkmod won't work (even the new one) - if you wanted to backout to old stock (3558, for example), you'd have to use Viewsonic's recovery. Clockworkmod will kill your device, trust me on that. nvflashing to bekit's 1105 also works, that's how I've been backing out to old stock.
Hmmm
In the last 24Hrs, my gTab v.9.02 just decided to go totally nuts. Constant FC's, lockups, lost sound. Tried every fix listed on XDA, wiped /data , re-downloaded apps from Market instead of restoring with TiB; wotked for a little bit, then the same FC's. And random loss of sound.
Going back to 3558 and CWM and 4.2.5.
We'll see what VS throws our way.
Keep up the good work Mr.Roe!!!
roebeet said:
The backout, btw, is the same -- run stock 3588 and it will downlevel you back to the old bootloader. BUT, make sure it's standard recovery and not clockworkmod.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps you should post the method and files in this thread. I know that it's in multiple places, but it never hurts to have them handy in a thread that is this important. Just a thought.
TwoTapsX works great for me so far. Had TNT Lite 5.0.1 but it wouldn't run some apps correctly. Tried all the ROMS and they all had sleep of death problems. TwoTapsX works the best for me without giving any glitches.
TwoTaps .9.2
Thanks Roebeet for all you do here. I am finding this ROM easier to work with than any other. I have noted that periodically it will flash the home screen while I am working. Mostly this has been while in Dolphin Brower HD.
jholmes5 said:
Perhaps you should post the method and files in this thread. I know that it's in multiple places, but it never hurts to have them handy in a thread that is this important. Just a thought.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point, since the other thread is hidden.
So far I have installed both version and removed them a few time without issue but the last time I removed it...
I needed to re-flash and wipe a few time, it was booting into the launcher but flashing the screen like crazy...
but since the nvflash recovery doesn't erase the root of the device something was making the screen flash black and reload of the desktop repeatedly.
I was able to run root explorer (that survived the nvflash restore) and copied another rom (calkulin) and even there after using his erase tool and running all wipe available from clockwork and calkulin one after the other... (I load clockwork with the part9.img trick) I had to re flash twice until the desktop loaded properly without flashing..
I would like to find a tool that can erase and rebuild the WHOLE tablet...
I have away updated to 3588 thru the online download each time. Anyway I will hold to the current rom for a bit!
P00r said:
So far I have installed both version and removed them a few time without issue but the last time I removed it...
I needed to re-flash and wipe a few time, it was booting into the launcher but flashing the screen like crazy...
but since the nvflash recovery doesn't erase the root of the device something was making the screen flash black and reload of the desktop repeatedly.
I was able to run root explorer (that survived the nvflash restore) and copied another rom (calkulin) and even there after using his erase tool and running all wipe available from clockwork and calkulin one after the other... (I load clockwork with the part9.img trick) I had to re flash twice until the desktop loaded properly without flashing..
I would like to find a tool that can erase and rebuild the WHOLE tablet...
I have away updated to 3588 thru the online download each time. Anyway I will hold to the current rom for a bit!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the dev sub forum there is format utility thread that will completely wipe out all the partitions on the tab.
manikin13 said:
In the dev sub forum there is format utility thread that will completely wipe out all the partitions on the tab.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does not... if you install a custom boot animation it stay there... so it's not full even if after the unit doesn't even start (red text) it's not fully wiped...
I have used clockwork with the partition option, this seem to perform a full format with either the nvflash format or bekit recovery but I am not sure why we can't get this done tru the nvflash...
manikin13 said:
In the dev sub forum there is format utility thread that will completely wipe out all the partitions on the tab.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's in my first post, as well. Run that nvflash first to erase the device, then the bekit 1105 nvflash to complete the process.
What seems to happen is that the old stock / new stock user data setups are not compatible. When going to new stock, it's not so bad because new stock has a better recovery. But when reverting, old stock has a crappy recovery with no user data wipe options. Even Viewsonic understood the limitations which is why they changed their recovery in this UAT of theirs.
I mentioned to jerdog that I wanted to see if I could port their new recovery to old stock (using an old kernel). If that works, we could conceivably offer a "bekit 1105 enhanced" version that adds it. This is better than clockworkmod in that it's the vendor's own recovery and includes the ability to wipe user data, calibrate the device AND update / downlevel the bootloader. For the purposes of getting users backed out if needed, it might be a critical piece of the puzzle.
EDIT: No go. The recovery functionality is actually IN the kernel, my bad. So it can't be ported over. Oh well.
You guys are GODS at this. Simply amazing what you are all doing with this G Tab. So I guess I'm one, of some lucky few, that ACTUALLY READ the install instructions for 5.0 and 5.0.1.
Glad I did because I love the market on this thing.
Eagerly watching what happens with Viewsonic......Any chance they did this as a step to make a Honeycomb upgrade easier? I doubt it since the original G Tab with OTA updates is still crippled.
First off just want to give my thanks to roebeet and the devs here at XDA. I've been running TnT Lite 5.0 / TwoTapsX ??? since the day I bought my Gtablet on 3/11 with no problems. On Friday the 11th I was itching for a Xoom somehow managed to find out Staples had the Viewpad 10 but not in store and somehow managed to end up finding out that Office Depot had the Gtablet for $379.99 in store. I read roebeet's at the time TnT Lite 5.0 thread several times before walking to my nearest Office Depot and brought home a Gtablet within minutes of reading that thread.
Out of the box from 2967 I went to 3588 through stock recovery and not OTA; and then did the same thing to go to TnTLite 5.0.0
I have successfully backed out of TNT Lite 5 in two ways:
1- Re-run a stock ROM. Specifically, I tested 3588. STOCK is important, as the bootloader will be downleveled to the necessary revision.
2- nvflash, using bekit's 1105 image.
In the case of stock, you might get stuck in a boot hang due to the possible need to wipe user data. So, I would recommend running the update.zip off a microSD so you can install clockworkmod .8 (old version) to give you the ability to wipe data.
Once you have old stock back, you'll be able to install older versions of TNT Lite, VEGAn, zPad, etc. as the bootloader is downleveled again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My question to roebeet or anyone who has gone from TnTLite / TwoTapsX back to 3588 using stock recovery. I could swear the above quote from roebeet had an additional line about using stock recovery to run the 3588 stock rom and then wiping user data from stock recovery. From TnTLite 5.0.0 can I go back to 3588 using the stock recovery and wipe user data with the stock recovery after running 3588 but before rebooting?
Android system recovery <3e>
Wipe Data/Factory Reset
Wipe Cache Partition
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it is possible to wipe user data after flashing back to 3588 do I need to just wipe data or do I need to use the 'wipe cash partition' as well.
edit: never mind my rambling probably better to wait until we know what Viewsonic is going to do and at that point roebeet will let TTx users know how to proceed from TTx to whatever comes down the pipe from VS
I did have a line (I think in the TwoTaps thread) about reversion and wiping data before you reboot into 3588 stock. But, I tried this once myself and it didn't work.
Maybe I should make a special 3588 "mostly stock" with clockworkmod, as a backout solution (so that, if you get into a bootloop situation post downgrade, you already have clockworkmod installed to fix it - that could work). It's the "wipe data" option, btw.
But first, lets see what the vendor does - if they stick with this new bootloader then TNTL5 / TTx users might already be one step ahead of everyone else - you may not want to backout.
Using it since first release with no problems. I always read the entire first post as well as user issues prior to updating. There are probably many users that try before reading which can lead to issues.
I think this is a great ROM.
Sent from my GTablet-TwoTapsX using Tapatalk
I'm one of the ones who ran into troubles getting this to load and I honestly believed I followed all the instructions when doing so. I've tried mostly all of the custom ROMs and was on the Vegan experimental before loading TTx. Not sure what the problem was but nvflashing with or without recovery didn't take. Kept getting stuck in APX mode. I wasn't really worried since I could always get the tablet to take the nvflash so I just kept playing with it until lo and behold, I was able to enter the TTx recovery mode. Been working fine since. I really like this ROM but I definitely feel like the disclaimer is justified - if you're not into tinkering this isn't something you wanna try.
The only problem I've run into so far is that when I recover my Angry Birds file and run the app it FC's. Runs fine if I just install either version, but when I try to restore my saves by using TB, the app refuses to run. Weird. Other than that, no problems. I don't really like the default browser, but understand that it's required at this point. FLash works fine and I haven't had any issues at all with the market. Even found a few apps that were supposedly only available with XOOM builds.
Many thanks Robeet and hopefully we can get a more "idiotproof" upgrade process.
T
roebeet,
Where can we obtain the bekit 1105 file?
I remember seeing the name somewhere but don't remember seeing the D/L source.
Rev